Hey, I'm Melanie Kembrey and this is the drop a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. Osman Farooqi is sadly on leave just for this week, but I am joined by Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson. Thomas, you've been off jet setting again from the Northern Territory to New York. What have some of the highlights been from the Big Apple?
Yes, it makes it sound like I went from the Northern Territory to New York, but.
I pretty much did. You've not worked since.
Yeah, that's actually quite true. Yes, it was very nice. I went for a week for work for something TBC, but yeah, actually it was, it was very fun. It's obviously a great place to walk around in. Um, I really thought I would see someone famous because every time I've previously been, I've seen at least one famous person. Um, but sadly. Have you seen. Yeah. See, like, I my colleagues that I was with saw Sarah Paulson like ten
minutes after I left them. Okay, so that was about as close as I got to, you know, a famous person experience, but otherwise it was. It was very fun. Um. And now I'm back.
Eat good food.
Yeah. Lots of pizza. Lots of bagels. Um, I really feel like the bagel culture. It's surprising to me that hasn't taken off here, given how much we love, like, breakfast foods and sandwiches and stuff. And everyone over there just eats them.
It's taken off in Melbourne. We've got a lot of specialty shops which are hardcore.
And do people like, get around it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like like lines out the door every weekend.
Really? Yeah. That's weird.
I'm surprised Sydney doesn't have that. Yeah, that's weird, I know.
And then I was kind of thinking, like, you always got to be thinking about potential businesses. I was like, maybe that can be a thing that I do in the future. Like, I.
Can open a bagel.
Business. Well, like, you know, there's a gap in the market, a gap with a hole in the middle, and I'm going to fill it.
I don't think there is a gap. I think you've just not had bagels before.
No, I've had them before. But like when you you guys have both been to New York, I'm assuming. Yes. You know how, like, there's this cafe chain called bluestone. It's like Australian started it. It's really popular and everyone's like, oh, go to bluestone if you want a good coffee. And I'm like that. You could do that same thing in reverse. Um, anyway, this is all the stuff I thought about when I was in New York.
When you were working for your actual job. Meg, what about you?
My week has been pretty crap by comparison. I have not been in New York. I've been sick in my house, thanks to my twins bringing home every illness from daycare. Um, and it's also been made worse by the fact that I'm currently writing the story for the SMH and the age about watching only ten play for a week, and
so we've been doing a whole series of them. People have just watched iview for a week, SBS On Demand, and I put my hand up for Tenplay, which is like all well and good until you're stuck in your house, um, all day with only ten play to go on. So I've watched a lot of Taskmaster recently, and I was so thrilled when you asked me to be on this week's show, because I got to watch something else. Yeah.
So how strict have you been? I've been.
Pretty good. I've been pretty good. Um, if anything, though, it's made me watch less TV overall because I knew there wasn't much good stuff going. So it's maybe healthier actually.
Is your partner like, does it hedeland fall into the remit of this?
Like, that's been that was a real topic of discussion. Um, he was not stoked about the story. Um, but definitely a few nights he was just watching other stuff and I was, you know, cooking and not paying attention or like, went into my room to watch a much less fun show.
Have you had any other discoveries apart from Taskmaster, which is very popular here? Anything else deep in the archives of Tenplay?
Um, I mean, it's pretty good for reality TV if you're after reality TV, it's a decent place to be. And that includes not just Australian series, but UK and New Zealand, South Africa, they've got like full seasons of survivor, of things like the Traders, which I know Aussies talked about on the show a lot and is a really decent show. The UK version especially is great. Um, beyond that it is pretty bleak. There's no real scripted, um, comedy or drama, which is a real hole unless you
want to watch The Secret Life of Us. Great.
I was gonna say surely that. And, like, offspring would be on there.
Yep, yep.
Yes, they have all that. Um. So. Yeah. You'll love it, I guess.
Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to Thomas no doubt doing the nine, the nine play.
One might do that anyway. Only watch either nine now or Stan and they just got such premium.
Keep trying to fund your bagel business. Correct. All right. Well, speaking about good TV shows this week we're going to look into the art of television crime, the popularity of the genre, the ethics and exploitations. When it's done well,
when it's done poorly. And we're going to look at two big shows which were released recently Under the Bridge, which is on Disney+, and Presumed Innocent, which is on Apple TV, to kick us off, I feel like there are a never ending stream of crime shows, documentaries, mini series. Are you guys big crime heads? Meg, when you're not watching Taskmaster, is it crime that you're hungering for?
I don't think I would classify myself as someone who. Is a full true crime fan or anything like that. I'm not chasing those really gory Dockers or anything, but it's definitely part of my diet. I think I lean towards the kind of funnier fictional takes in the genre, the kind of Fargo, you know, Russian Doll was great. Even deadlock in the past year or so from, um, Kate McCartney and Kate McLennan was really a really fun comedy spin on the genre. Um, but I mean, I'm
not above it either. Uh, during lockdowns, I binged every single episode of Law and Order SVU. Um, and if you have any idea of the back catalogue of that show, that is a lot, a lot of time and pretty, pretty bleak viewing as well. So it's part of the mix. But I'm not a die hard, I think. How about.
You? I feel like there has been a real rise of that kind of funny crime. Only murders in the building is another one where it's less about the crime itself, as much about the jokes that are made solving the crime. Thomas, I know you like a bit of crime, I think.
Yeah, actually, like, I actually am a bit of a crime head, even though I don't classify myself that way. But when I was, like, thinking about this, I do often feel like now one of the first things I go to when I'm looking for a new show, like I'll just naturally drift towards, like the really dark crimes like. And I do feel like in the last few years, there's been like a kind of, like big shift in
the level of quality. Like, I don't know why. Maybe this is just in my own head, but I feel like Mare of Easttown was one that, like, really like people got buzzed about it in a way that often these genre shows like Don't Demand. And I think, you know, obviously it had Kate Winslet and it was like really dark and gritty and stuff. And like that to me
is the perfect type of crime show. And yeah, I guess, like since then I've found myself on a drifting towards more and more of those, like really, I don't know, I do like to be like disturbed when viewing. I think it's like a comfort thing. In a weird way. This is the same thing I have. Like I have a discussion with my friends all the time. Whenever I'm like quite hungover. I like watching horror films because it's like,
maybe it's the the forced, like emotion. And so I think it's the same kind of appeal when I go to look for like a true crime show or just a crime show in general.
And many people would say that the BBC kind of pioneered the classic crime drama with detectives that you follow for series after series. I quite like those ones. Like I recently discovered Shetland and watched all seven series, and there's something so comforting in the formula of it. You kind of put it on nice landscape shots. You know what you're getting. It's not too surprising. It's not too hard to follow. Um, Meg, do you like those kind of classic BBC crime dramas?
I've never got into those, really. I mean, I know there's always a channel on TV pumping, just like non-stop summer murder mysteries of some British description. Um, I never got into those, but I feel like over the past little while, there's such a deviation in how we talk about these crime shows because like you said, there's like these prestige offerings. There's Kate Winslet doing Mare of Easttown.
And then on the other hand, Netflix are just like slapping out one every week of kind of increasingly disturbing content. I mean, I watched that, um, Dahmer show. It was like the show with ten names. It's like monster, Jeffrey Dahmer Story's Jeffrey Dahmer Chronicle. But that was, um, really off putting. And I feel like in the past few years, I've really leaned away from anything that's actually based on
true stories. Um, just because there's such a hunger with these big streaming companies, especially to juice them for all they're worth. And, um, that made me a little tentative, actually, for one of the shows that was coming out at the moment, which we're going to talk about.
Yes. And we'll get to Under the Bridge, which is based on a real life story soon. And it's interesting what you were saying, Meg, because the rise of the crime drama and the true crime drama has happened parallel also to the rise of the true crime documentary, both on screen and when it comes to podcasts, shows like The Staircase, which really kind of capitalized on that appetite for true crime. Thomas, why do you think people love
watching crime? You hinted that for some reason you find it quite cathartic to watch people being brutally killed on television.
Okay, you've stitched me up there now, I think. I mean, I do think in a way that, well, the format is like, in a strange way, comforting because it's always like, you know, classic story structure of like beginning, middle, end. There's like good guys, bad guys. It's like familiar to us. And so that is appealing in a way. But I mean, I don't know if you've heard of a little thing called In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. No. But like,
you know, the genre is obviously, like, really old. Um, as as we know we've discussed this previously, but I feel like crime as a genre used to be, like, especially even in Capote's day, it was like a bit low brow and stuff, whereas that has really shifted. And we've been talking about like the popularity of like crime
or true crime for like years now. But I think especially in this era of like, you know, the armchair detective thing that we talk about so much, like there is that element of like, people love to, you know, the rise of, like, serial and making a murderer like that thing of being involved in the story in real time as, like a big part of, I think, the
current obsession with true crime. And then. I guess the fact that it is like always that voyeuristic thing of like, oh, getting to like, see the icky parts of real life is, is appealing. Like it's just human nature. I think we do like to look at that kind of car crash effect where you like, can't look away. And I think
all of that stuff has been like, true forever. But now in this era of streaming, it's like, you know, they're just like constantly like, I think both of these shows we're going to talk about today, Under the Bridge and Presumed Innocent are based on books like, it's like all the streamers have realized there's so much like, material existing now that they can, you know, adapt and stuff. And so it's really like it's all come together to this,
like perfect marriage of, like, all this stuff exists. We're already kind of conditioned to be interested in it. And now it's just like, how much can you handle? Yeah.
And Meg, you hinted at kind of you feel a bit of discomfort about kind of that, that the rise of this genre and how readily we are to consume it and make it. And, you know, when things, when industries do see a big boom and true crime documentaries and true crime is one of those, it's kind of churned out so fast and people are wanting to capitalize on the interest so much that sometimes the ethics of
it aren't given time to be considered. So you see documentary makers making shows about people without really kind of giving moral consideration to what they're doing. When did you kind of start to feel a bit icky about some of these crime shows, particularly the ones based on real life?
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think to pinpoint a moment, I think something happened in 2014 that collectively broke our brains around that first season of serial. Um, we all became obsessed with Sarah Koenig and Adnan Saeed. And, you know, that was the first kind of popular moment, I think, where everyone was hitting Reddit, doing their own kind of investigations into something that this professional journalist was already looking into. And from there it kind of spiraled
out of control. Then we got, you know, the making a murderer, we got the jinx, we got the staircase, we got all these run ons that, you know, are great objects in their own right and really interesting and worthwhile investigations in many ways, but at the same time spiraled into this online chaos, which I was very much a part of. You know, I really enjoyed that as a moment. But as the years wear on, we're past a decade since that first came out. Now it's just tiring.
I think the idea of true crime being this participatory sport is just, you know, there's good ways to do it and bad, and it's an ethical quagmire all the time. But I'm just tired of it, frankly. Yeah.
And we saw it all come to a head, of course, with baby reindeer, which was kind of the extreme of that armchair detective. Um, but you were talking about journalists being involved in, in these crime stories, and he.
Was a journalist.
Nick Cafferty, um, of course, was very involved in Cold Blood, and it's very much a part of that story. And in Under the Bridge, uh, as well, there's a journalist character. So why don't we move on to talking about that one?
There's danger everywhere.
But danger had never looked quite like this before.
This girl, Reena Virk.
She's been missing for three days. That night I saw something. What happened under the bridge?
It's an eight part mini series which is now on Disney via Hulu, and it's about the real life murder of 14 year old Reena Virk by a group of teenagers in British Columbia, Canada, in 1997. It's based on the 2005 book of the same name by journalist Rebecca Godfrey, who in this series is played by Riley Keough, who is also an EP on the show. She returns to her home in Victoria to work on a book, but finds herself, like Truman, part of the story. When the
body of a Indian-canadian teen, Reena, is discovered. She's played by Ritika Gupta, and the focus turns on a group of teenagers Josephine Bell, played by Chloe Guidry, Warren Glatkowski, played by Javon Wanna Walton, and Kelly Ellard, played by Izzy G. Lily Gladstone plays Detective Kam Benchland, who has a complicated relationship with Rebecca. Meg, what did you make of Under the Bridge? Did you like watching it?
Yeah, I was pretty skeptical going in for these same reasons. I'm not super into the true stories these days. I'm a bit skeptical of these shows, which are always based around a dead girl in a small town. The mystery surrounding it. Um, but I was pleasantly surprised, I think just because of the the depth of the story, I suppose there was real compassion for Rena and her family, and she gets a lot more screen time than most victims do when they kind of dispersed. Of in the
opening EP. Um, her story is a really interesting one. You know, growing up in this small Canadian town from an Indian family, her mother is a strict Jehovah's Witness, puts her in a pretty tough position with these, you know, tough girls of the 90s. Um, I thought particularly the dynamic of girls kind of young girl violence on young girls is an interesting one. Usually when it's a dead girl in a small town, it's like, which of these
12 men did it? They all have reasons. Whereas now it's much more about like, we kind of know who the culprits are. But why would that happen? How could it happen? What does this particular type of violence that young girls inflict on each other and why? I found that really interesting. There's a few caveats there. I found
Riley Keoughs character a bit strange. And, you know, I've seen three episodes at this point, and I don't fully understand her backstory and some of her motivations, but all in all, I'm having a good time.
And what about you, Thomas? I know you've watched it all, and you were you were kind of hyping this up before it got to Australia, because it had quite a prominent release overseas before it landed on Disney here. Yeah. Did it live up to your expectations? Yeah, I think so.
I actually weirdly like didn't realize it was a true story going into it.
Um, even though it says at the start of every episode this is based on a true story. Yeah.
This is like a indictment of my, like, short attention span.
It's okay. Maybe you thought it was a Fargo situation. Exactly.
You can never tell anymore. Uh, yeah. I think it's like it's funny talking about these two, like, Presumed Innocent, which obviously get onto in such close succession. I feel like I really enjoyed this, but it probably felt more like a show that kind of, on the surface, ticked all the boxes of like what constitutes a good, you know, true crime show these days. Like it had all the
elements in place. But I think like by the end of it I was just a little bit like, ah, it it's a slightly unsatisfying, I think, um, even though it did feel like it had the framework to be like a really good show. I thought Riley Keough was good, and I was especially interested, I think, in Lily Gladstone, because she's had this massive year, you know, she basically lots of people thought she was like robbed for an Oscar.
It was like a breakout year. And I always find it interesting to see, like what someone like that does next. I thought this was like a funny project for her, like, because I don't think you know her character. They have an interesting relationship. Her character is good, but it was a strange one I didn't like quite understand why she would decide to do like this particular TV show where she was kind of like third lead, really, like after
Rina and Riley, Kira's character. But yeah, I guess like generally I had an interesting time and I do think there were, you know, like you said, Meg, the way that crime specifically was treated, like at first you're like, oh God, here we go again, like a brutal murder.
But then it does kind of like delve into more and especially that's probably my favorite part, I think, like learning about the, you know, the three girls who, uh, kind of in the midst of it, um, and you know, that they're obviously from impoverished backgrounds and like, their friendship, I thought was like really at times hard but interesting to watch because, you know, like, they're really up against it and they're really awful to each other. But then
there are like moments of tenderness. So that was really interesting. But yeah, I think a little bit by the end I was like, okay, it felt paint by numbers.
Yeah. And I think as you're hinting at, there's a lot going on in this show. There's a journalist character that's the Riley Keefe character, there's the detective cam. They've got a relationship going on. There's flashbacks to the past. There are troubled youth. There's elements of race that's coming into this to, um, I almost thought it was trying
to do too much and tick too many boxes. Um, I know the directors and makers have spoken about how they wanted to approach the crime with radical empathy, giving it given it is based on a real story. But I did feel that maybe it held them back from going as into some of these dynamics as they would have, and they kind of skimmed the surface of a lot of these issues, kind of issues of socioeconomic backgrounds, issues
of race. They kind of glided along the surface. And to me, it almost felt a bit bland, and maybe it could have gone more in depth on some of these things. Why don't we talk about it is set in the 90s and the 90s. Element is actually quite a big part of this show in particular. Um, Biggs.
I was waiting for you. You're gonna go biggie or you would spell it out. I knew you.
Would look at me for this 1997 opus, Life After Death, which is a huge part of the show. How well, Meg, did you enjoy that setting of the 90s and how well do you think they captured that time?
Yeah, I mean, look, I was six and 1997, so my perception of the moment is probably a little different to some other people, but I think that they captured the. You're really well, and I think that specific point in time is a really interesting one to tell this story. I mean, it was a time where a lot of young girls were reclaiming power in lots of ways. I mean, 97 is one year after the craft came out, which, you know, had teenage girls acting a bit witchy and
feeling like they had supernatural powers. You saw a scene in one of the early episodes the girls are doing, like a seance at a party. Um, you know, they were feeling like they could have a more masculine style. She's got the Steve Madden kind of combat boots. This was the era of, like, No Doubt's just a girl. Um, you know, 97 is the year that Spiceworld came out.
These are not Spice World girls. Um, they're much more about Tupac and Biggie, but I think it's a really great exploration of, you know, what power young women had at this time and what whether that power was dispersed equally because, as you said, the girls featured are pretty disadvantaged in a lot of ways, and feeling a lot of their anger comes from that disadvantage, whether that's socioeconomic or racial or religious in some respects. And it really
butts heads against one another. So I felt it was such an interesting exploration of who gets what power and why, and how do they use it against each other. I mean, the white girls in this little gang, the Crip, Crip mafia cartel, Chelsea, they, um, they seem pretty keen on a particular type of culture that they're weaponizing. Uh, pretty, uh, appallingly against the black and non-white people in their group.
Yeah, that's really well put, because part of the thing this show does is walk a really fine line between capturing the savagery of the crime, um, that is committed, but also placing the perpetrators in the context of their troubled lives. Um, do you think it did that successfully, Thomas?
Uh, yeah, I think so. Just one second. I'm going back to the 90s. I did.
Think your favorite.
Era, it was nice to see like, people smoking on screen, because.
That was not what I thought you were gonna say.
Wow, what a takeaway.
But Riley here, she TV, she smokes.
No, but, like, she smokes all the time. And then, like, in famously in Mare of Easttown, obviously my favorite crime show, She Vapes, which I remember was like one of the first times I saw someone vaping, like, on screen in like a modern crime drama. And whereas, like, there's so much smoking in this show and I know obviously smoking is bad, etc., etc. but it felt like it really like placed it in the 90s when it was just like people did it without thought rather than like a
fucking BlackBerry ice or whatever. She was just like, you know, handing out cigarettes. They were like probably $5 for a packet. So I quite enjoyed that. And so.
Nostalgic.
Yeah. Also the fact that there was just like, I think you take this for granted, but no phones, like.
Yes, you.
Know, like Reno at one point runs to a payphone at one point. Yeah. But like just that, you know, obviously we take it for granted now. But when you think about telling a story like this and this is something I often think about generally it's so much easier to commit a crime in the 90s because, like, it's
so hard now to get. I mean, I know because I've been trying it's so hard to like get away with the crime now because everything is like, whereas in that era, like even, you know, obviously Reena, like, kind of goes missing for all this time and there's like a little tiny bit of CCTV, but like, whereas now every so much of that would be captured, like you can so easily trace back because of technology, whereas back then, you know, you were just smoking and in the dark.
I think that's a good point. And a lot of authors and, um, film directors and TV makers are setting their shows just slightly before technology really takes hold for that very reason, because the logistics of trying to commit a crime and solve it when there is internet. Yeah, like changes everything. Well, we were talking about, um, we were talking about Riley Coffee's character, Rebecca Godfrey, who is this journalist who comes back to write her book, and
then she gets entangled. Really entangled with these children. Thomas, have you ever covered a story like that?
Uh, yes. Actually, uh, no. Look, I've never really done. Sadly. I know we'll get on to your crime career, Mel. Uh, for the listeners. Spent a lot of time working in as a court reporter. She likes to mention it. Probably twice a day. I reckon.
Some of us have to do real journalism here. Uh.
But. Yes. No. Sadly, I haven't had to go to a small town and look at a murder yet. Um, perhaps one day. But, yeah, I don't know. Does it speak to your time as a court reporter?
Look, no, not really, because I think and I think Riley Keefe is good at this, but her character, which is based on the real author of the book, gets away with so much in this. And I think she's ever held ethically or morally culpable for what she does, which is hanging out with teenagers kind of really get involved in a police case, and.
She does acid with a 14 year old boy.
She drops acid, which I sleeping over with him? Uh, yeah. She's sleeping over with him. Um, she's kind of misleading the cops, um, influencing the kids to kind of what testimony they give. And to me, the show just really let her off and didn't really examine the role she was playing, which I thought she was completely out of line in a lot of the way she did. And what was she getting out of this? She was getting
a book. She was working on. And the show at one point shows the New York Times ad for the book that's coming out, and you can't help but feel that she's capitalizing on this crime so much. But the show doesn't really hold her to account for for this. Meg, what did you like her character?
I'm not sure how I was supposed to feel about her, because everything that was presented to me, like she seemed like a bad writer. Even when she's entering the town, she's got this, like, book full of notes saying like, it's a terrible story. She's jumping on this thing without any real direction or ethical guidance or sense of what she's doing. She's ruining this actual like, police case of murder. It all seems really critical in a way that it
didn't ever seem to really like. It felt like I was supposed to be rooting for her when she's just, you know, making a mess of the situation and for pretty poor results. I mean, the stuff that she says into her voice recorder that's supposed to be these, like, very insightful notes. It's terrible. It's so terrible.
The whole idea of the voice recorder when she's sitting at the cafe speaking to it, I mean, can you imagine doing that? I know that.
That felt like a bit cringe. I thought Riley was pretty good, though. I like Riley. I mean, we love Elvis's family.
Yeah, I think she did what she could with a script that we love Elvis's family, but I think she did what she could with a script that probably made her character pretty.
Two D it kind of feels it feels like what you were saying before. I agree that the show is really spread thin across a lot of people, and what the most interesting part is, is actually these young girls, and it needed more time to focus on them. But the show was kind of sold by its big stars. You've got Lily Gladstone, you've got Riley Keough, so you want to make the most of them. But that feels
really not ideal for the story. That is the most interesting in the plot, which I think makes it a bit scattered.
Yeah, totally. And there is this relationship between Riley and Lily Thomas. You mentioned that you like seeing Lily Gladstone in her first role since, um, killers of the Flower Moon, which we probably all think Osman is sitting at home watching on repeat right now, as she is really good playing Molly, and I think we all agree, deserved to win the Oscar for that role, but lost out to Emma Stone. I thought she was really good in this. I thought again, I think she plays understated really well.
I think she I think Riley can overact in a way with the emotions, but Lily has this pared back kind of thing where she can give a lot, but not in an obvious way. I really liked her as this detective, and I wanted more of her and could have almost done with less Riley and cut off some of the other issues, and had her as a real kind of more of a lead character in this. Did you think she did good?
Yeah, I think no, I think she was good. Like, she's obviously a good actress. Um, obviously, in case she's listening. Well done, Lily, but no, I think it's more just like, I think I'm just personally curious, like, about. I just find it interesting about, like, the decision making process for someone like Lily Gladstone when you've, like, come off a massive movie where also that that movie was, like, really about her killers of the Flower Moon. She's like, she
dominates it. It goes for like seven hours and she's like on screen for six hours and 50 minutes, whereas then like this, I just found it interesting because it's not a really like maybe on on the page she was like, this is going to be like a super buzzy project. I don't know, like it has got buzz, but I don't know if for her it was like such a great showcase of her talents, even though she is good in it. Um, so I just thought that was kind of an interesting, like sideways move for her
career wise. And I wonder if she's kind of like sitting somewhere with her agents being like, hmm, well, like, we did that and like, probably like won't rush into another, you know, like TV project. But I thought generally, you know,
they were good together. I actually thought, like, there were some things this show did which were at least interesting, like, um, you know, there is a obviously we spoke about Rina being, you know, like the children of these Indian immigrants and Jehovah's Witnesses, and we do get like a kind of sandwiched in the middle, like a bottle episode that tells
the story of her parents meeting. And it's basically a complete flashback episode, um, watching her dad, you know, like, migrate to Canada and being kind of like, uh, he's not a Jehovah's Witness, but he gets like, sucked into, you know, the community there. And then he meets Rina's mother, and it's like a full flashback episode, which I thought was interesting. Like, again, that part of that was like,
I can see what the show is doing. Like it's it's like taking a format that has been done successfully elsewhere and just kind of like transplanting it. I don't know if it works, but I was like, oh, props for trying. Yeah.
What did you think about Lili Meg? Because in some ways this isn't a whodunit, because you do know whodunit pretty early on. So the role of the detective is a bit of a different one to your conventional crime drama. Were you happy with the amount of Lily you got in this show?
Yeah, I suppose it would have been nice to see a little more. And I agree that she was a stronger character than Riley Keough's journalist. I suppose a comparison is Kate Winslet in Mare of Easttown, and that was kind of seen her. That was seen as her stepping out onto the small screen, having a big role in a different way. So it could have been that Lily
was shooting for that kind of thing. It also could have been that she shot this before killers, or at the same time as killers, like, yeah, who knows how these things work? Um, I don't think it was a poor use of her talent, though. I think she does this kind of silent stoicism quite well. She's got a real sense of righteousness and. Doing the right thing. It would be nice to see her in different kinds of roles, because obviously those are qualities that are pretty similar to
her character in killers of the Flower Moon. And I think it's often easy to cast this, you know, such talented indigenous actress with the same kind of thing over and over again, because she does it well. But, you know, she's a very talented actress. I'm sure she can do loads of different things. It would have been nice to see a bit more range as well.
And did you guys go down the rabbit hole of this one into. Because I did find myself on this case looking up where the real life killers were at. Um, did you guys do the research before you watched it or after you watched it? Or have you gone down that rabbit hole?
I have gone down that rabbit hole. Um, obviously, like, you know, an official spoiler alert for anyone listening who is in the middle of watching the show, but particularly the kind of one the main young guy in it, Warren Gorlitsky, who I think the actors from euphoria, um, his character kind of like looking at he had a really interesting, like post crime journey. Um, in terms of becoming like an advocate for justice. He became quite close with Marina Burke's family. Um, and that's, you know, it
was interesting. And then also, I watched like a I must have been like, I don't know, today USA interview with Joe. Um, and she, she is kind of exactly what you would imagine her to be. But yeah, I guess and you know, back to, I guess, the original point of what is the appeal of these types of projects that also I think is like big for me, getting to do the post show like Wikipedia and Google until you like, read every single piece of like information
out there about what happened to these people. I do think that's like always fun.
Yeah, it kind of troubled me a bit. These kids were so young. As the show makes a real point of expressing when when this incident happened, that then to fictionalize it. You do wonder about the real life consequences on their life going forward. I mean, we have seen how some people like Anna Delphi, of course, has capitalized on the fame that a Netflix series did, but hers was obviously a very different case, and people had a
different relationship to what she did to to these kids. Um, Meg, I know earlier you were saying that was part of your concern about these shows that are based on real events. Have you gone and done all your research on on what happened to the real characters?
Um, I wouldn't say I've gone and done my research. I've done just enough research to have this conversation because I only watched the first three episodes, which don't really give you a full understanding of whodunit. Exactly. Um, so I know the outlines of what happened, but not, you know, the full characterizations or interviews they did after or their whole life. Are you going to keep.
Going with it?
Yeah, I think I will. Um, yeah, I definitely will. I don't know if I'll then do all the research, but I think it's a worthwhile show to jump into and see all the way through.
Yeah. Good mix. After you've watched like 15 episodes of Taskmaster.
Yeah, maybe. The comparison is quite harsh for me as well. I'm like, what a show. Prestige television.
From a real life story to a fictional one. Let's move on to Presumed Innocent.
I just want to make sure that we have everything exactly right.
Let's get started.
You aware that Carolyn Palamas was murdered? When was the last time you were in Carolyn's apartment?
Uh, we had cases together. Sometimes we would work after hours at her apartment.
Your fingerprints were found in her bedroom. Were you and Karolina romantically involved?
My suspect.
Because I did not kill her.
Three apps are out now on Apple TV. This is based on Scott Turlough's best selling 1986 legal whodunit of the same name, which has already been adapted for screen in 1990. Wow, starring Harrison Ford and our own Greta. Sacha. Had you guys seen this movie? I had not seen it. So I went into the TV show knowing nothing about the plot. But I know the many people adored the film. Had you watched it?
I've never said no. I hadn't seen it. And I'm like, yeah, I'm curious because I'm so into this show now. So I like don't want any spoilers from anybody.
What about you, Meg?
I, I hadn't seen it. I'd heard of it, obviously. And I know that, yeah, people really hold it in high respect. After I watched the first couple of episodes of the TV show, I went and watched the movie. Um, I've watched three quarters of the movie and googled the last bit of the plot, which is very important. And look, I had to go to sleep. I'm sick. But, um, it was really interesting to compare the two and compare the performances with Jake Gyllenhaal and Harrison Ford, which are
very different. Compare the story, different treatments of the story, particularly its treatment of women, which it is. Um, yeah, we can talk about.
Yes, I would love to. Well, that is really interesting. Um, so the miniseries is created by David E Kelley, who we know loves legal shows. He was behind Big Little Lies, Boston Legal, ally McBeal, my favorite. Um. The miniseries stars Jake Gyllenhaal as a prosecutor who becomes the prime suspect
in the murder of one of his colleagues. Carolyn. There's some really great, um, uh, supporting roles here Bill camp and Peter Sarsgaard, um, who are in the prosecutor's office, Peter Sarsgaard in real life, Jake Gyllenhaal's brother in law. So there you go. Fun little fun little addition. Um, Meg, what did you make of the show? And having also gone back and watched the movie, which one do you prefer?
Um, I really prefer the TV show a lot. Um, it's so juicy and pulpy. You know, sometimes I kind of catch myself feeling bad for enjoying it so much. There's quite a lot of explicit, leering shots of, you know, Carolyn's dead body and these throwback scenes of when they were having sex. And it's just like it's made to be quite deliberately juicy in that way, but it really hooks you as well. Like Jake Gyllenhaal's performance is out of control. He is sweating, he is manic. Um, love
that for him. He's such a good actor when he's allowed to just go full crazy, like, I mean, anyone who's seen him in that role in October knows just how crazy he can go. Um, I loved that. It's just. Yeah, there's great political intrigue with him in the kind of district attorney's office, which doesn't sound interesting, but is in the context. Um, and I particularly love that this TV version allows for a lot more scope of what's happening in his home life. So, I mean, he's had this
affair with his co-worker. She's then died. It goes on from there. But in the movie, there's not much scope given to his wife to have much direct input on how that's affected their home life, or how this ongoing court case will kind of explode their lives. And that's such a big part of the show and causes so much anguish in Gyllenhaal's character.
Yeah, I've only watched, so there's only three apps out at the moment on Apple TV, and they're releasing it week by week. I really like this show. I don't think it's gonna like, is it the best show that's ever made? I don't think so, but it is so enjoyable to watch. I think the episodes all have amazing, like, cliffhanger notes. I think it's so like polished and sleek. Um, it reminds me a bit of anatomy of a scandal.
It's got a Big Little Lies vibe, like you're in the circle of the rich and the powerful here, and you're watching how that powers wielded by everyone, um, there's personal politics, there's office politics. There's obviously a brutal crime. Um, given I haven't watched the movie, I do find, like, I don't know which way the show is going to go, which is keeping me on the edge of my seat. Whereas I feel like if you'd watch the movie and you kind of know how it's going to play out,
you'd have a very different experience watching this. But, um, I think it's really a watchable, enjoyable show. Thomas, have you binged this?
Uh, I, I've seen all the episodes that are out. Um, the supporting cast is really good and like. Yeah, it's like it's a very uncomfortable watch, like made kind of touched on it. The family element is such a big part of this. Like obviously, you know, this isn't really a spoiler, but you know, he's had this explicit affair with his colleague and, and we kind of pick up in the first episode when his wife there in the aftermath of it and they're kind of patching their lives
back together. And then all of this stuff gets dropped in, which makes it very clear that, in fact, you know, the affair is not over and has been continuing. And and it's almost like that element, too, is so difficult to watch because you're watching this guy, he's like almost playing whack a mole, trying to like, patch the different holes in his life. And then you add into that, like when when things start to unfold and he becomes, you know, the center of this crime. It is it's
an anxious watch. Um, which often doesn't sound like a fun time, but it still makes for a gripping kind of viewing. Yeah, I again, this to me feels like a show that is very considered in terms of like, okay, what does it take to be a crime drama that is going to elevate you above, you know, the rest of the many, many crime dramas? And I feel like this really has it, like particularly with the politics of
the DA's office. Again, we join, I guess, the show when there's like a political race to be head of the Da. And, um, you know, Jake Gyllenhaal's character is kind of wedded to the outgoing Da. And so there's like a political element there. And yeah, I just feel like it's it's very much a well-rounded show. And it is, of course like a crime drama. But that's not exactly all it's offering, even though, you know, it does get very graphic and it.
Is quite a graphic show. And this is Jake's first small screen leading role. I thought he was very good. I thought he was. He stole the show in all the ways. Um, I, he brings and my heart, of course he brings what? Um, he's so good at doing that kind of dark, mysterious, broody, kind of slightly unhinged character that stole Taylor's scarf, um, from movies. He brings that to this role so perfectly. Did. What did you make of Jake? Meg?
Yeah. I thought he was incredible. I mean, he's got that. Yeah, really. Manic face is bulging eyes. I love a really beautiful pretty boy who's not afraid to be ugly in every way. It makes the best viewing. Like this is a man who could have just been doing rom coms his entire career, but he is doing the weirdest stuff in film. I can't wait to see what he does on TV. Yeah, yeah.
He really does that slightly kinda unhinged thing, so. Well, yeah.
Although that being said, I don't know if either of you guys watch Roadhouse. He's like most recent film, which.
Was I've been meaning to I've been meaning, oh my God, is it.
Good? It's so bad. Like it's like it's a remake of the Patrick Swayze film. It's like. I think it's an Amazon film. I watched it mostly because, like, Conor McGregor is in it. I was curious to see like him acting. It was it was bad as I imagined. But Roadhouse again, like, I don't know why I'm so obsessed with people's IMDb profiles today, but like, such a bad movie. Yeah. It's like, yeah.
Oh, that's a shame I didn't. I watched that one on Netflix where he plays the ambulance responder and it's so intense. It's just like an hour of him kind of making big eye faces. Um, it was kind of quite claustrophobic.
Yeah. He's actually got, like, a really good body of work. Have you guys seen prisoners? Like, that's like one of my all time favorite films.
Zodiac. Yeah.
Zodiac.
Great. David Fincher film. Yeah. Um, well, hopefully we'll be seeing a lot more of him. Um. You bet. Thomas, you kind of mentioned, um, a bit earlier that, you know, we're seeing these crime dramas aspire to be more kind of like high art, whereas in the 90s and 2000 and Meg's still watching them, we had the kind of CSIS and the Law and Orders and procedural series. Do you think that, you know, the kind of talking about David E Kelley, the Boston Legal era of crime drama is over?
Well, I guess like yes and no. It's funny because David E Kelley, like, he both did like the Boston Legal, which is, you know, that kind of I mean, that was more of a comedy ish, but that serial show. And then he also did Big Little Lies and pretty sure he wrote that. So I mean, he's kind of got a foot in both camps, but I do think, you know, we had last year NCIS Sydney premiered. So like, that level still exists. And there are people like, I
just got back from New York. I don't know if you guys know, but, um, like, there, you know, you see so many billboards for shows over there and it's still like CSI season 5000 or whatever. Like it's still kind of going on, but it's just like there has been this massive division now where it's like those shows exist for some people and whatever, and we'll keep making them. And if you want to keep watching them, like they'll always be there. But now it is like this kind
of elevation. It's like we've got the, you know, top subscriber tier of crime TV shows. And that's what these, I think definitely play into. And I do think that that's a format that's been kind of like molded by like the mayors of East Sound the night of what was the other HBO one rerun, This city or whatever. Like, like it's become a genre, like an offshoot of the original genre where, you know, you got to have like, probably like a really small town. You've got to explore
the politics of that small town. There's got to be like racial and gender issues explored, like it's got it.
You've got cast members. Yeah.
And it's like and a similar thing with like, you know, we talk about so much how True Detective like redefined TV and stuff. I do think all of those have kind of come together to like, give us this new version of crime drama. And if you really, you know, want to get the big names and stuff, you have to deliver a product that ticks all those boxes.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Do you think crime is to prestige these days, Meg? Do you miss the kind of old school pay? Meg. Yeah.
Well, it's interesting because shows like, you know, CSI and Law and Order, these are still incredibly popular. Like, I think the audience numbers would well outweigh these kind of prestige offerings. There's a reason they're still getting pumped out at such great pace. But I feel like this show in particular is such a nice melding of both those worlds, because in many ways it is just a legal procedural, and I think eventually will be once they're kind of
in the courtroom deciding the case. And that has that tasty. Kind of hokey way of drawing you in that these other shows, do you know what's coming? You know, the structure of the courtroom drama. But in the other way, you know, it is a prestige show and that it's got Jake Gyllenhaal's first role. It's got, you know, this back story with the text that it's based on, which
is also big name roles. I mean, Harrison Ford in the original, and then even then it does, you know, the discourse that surrounds a show like this will have those kind of broader social concerns. There's a lot of discussion around the different ways they treat women. And, you know, this one's not perfect as well. I feel like so many of the old shots of Caroline, you see from Jake Gyllenhaal's perspective is like a dead wife shot. It's like, oh,
she's so beautiful and perfect. Like, look at her in slow motion in this bar. Yeah. Um, but compared to the film, it's so much better. That was very much, um, you know, you hear that this, this hard core prosecutors being killed, and her boss finds out in the office, and he's like a beautiful, sexy gal like that. No way. Um,
it's like, wow, you knew this woman. You're really shaken up. Um, and particularly the way that her relationships are brought up in the original film, she, you know, these erotic thrillers of the 80s and 90s when any woman had any kind of active sexual life, it was like deviant in some way and usually ended in violence in some way. So Caroline, in the, in the original had a lot of sexual partners and that was kind of painted her
in a particular light. And so when people find out about her murder, it's like, well, I suppose that's what happens. She had.
It coming.
It's really, really bad. Yeah. So at least in this retelling, you know, she's a human being, um, she's allowed to have sex and not be murdered. Um, it's an interesting retelling on that respect. But also, I'd say it's, you know, I've heard a lot of people who've read the book and seen the film and are now watching the TV show and say that it actually has deviations from the original texts in some ways, and I don't know all of them because I haven't read the book. Um, but.
I think it's still a really interesting watch if you have seen those things, because they're really playing with the text and what twists you think are coming and don't come. Um, and it may, yeah, it may surprise you. I suppose even reviewers in the US who have seen everything but the final episode, they don't know, you know, who actually did the crime. So we could all be surprised. Yeah.
That's good. We'll keep you watching. Um, yeah. The even I haven't seen the original, but it is a bit of a weird representation still of Carolyn, the colleague who is dead. There are some quite a lot of graphic shots of her body and the violence against her. And then there are a lot of kind of flashbacks to
sex scenes. Um, and then I won't say what it is, but Jake makes a discovery about her, which also then feeds into a different shaping of her discovery after she's dead that affects him, that feeds into the shaping of her, um, maybe in a way that is a bit uneasy, um, with what they're trying to do with that discovery. But, I mean, watching both of these shows under the bridge and presumed innocent back to back, obviously, one is a
true story. One is a fictional. But, you know, it is hard to ignore that so many of these shows hinge on really awful things happening to women.
Mhm. Yeah I know it's like it's a, it's a strange thing because it's like this kind of self-fulfilling problem of the genre that everyone especially nowadays knows is like not okay. And yet we can't seem to like break the like, you look at so many of these shows and it's just like it's always the same thing. Even like, you know, thinking about like lots of Australian shows. The 12, that was a really horrible crime. Like to a young girl.
Like it's it's like we we're all so self aware that this is the formula and like the pitfalls of that formula and yet like consistently a new show will come out and it'll be like a young girl missing in a small town. Everyone's like, fuck, that looks pretty good. I might watch it like, I don't know. It's just like, how do you change that hardwiring of the genre?
Like, yeah, make beyond these two shows. Is it kind of lazy plotting or is it also kind of a reflection of the world in which violent crimes are more likely to be committed against women?
Yeah, I think that's the difficult truth. That's hard to avoid when you're telling these crime stories and particularly true crime, in that, you know, it usually is women who are subject to this kind of violence, and it's usually from men. Um, so that is hard to get away from in many respects. I will also shout out deadlock again, though, because that is based around, uh, men being murdered in a small town in Tasmania. So a fun spin on the genre.
Yeah. That's, uh. Yeah, that's very true. And I mean, I think what is interesting about these shows, as opposed to other, other crime series, is that they do, to varying levels of success, try to hold space for the victims as well rounded characters. So they're not just explicitly a way to move the plot forward or to give other characters an arc. They do try to hold room for them. And I think.
Especially with Under the Bridge, that even that kind of like very meta narrative takes place in the story where, like Riley Keoughs character is writing this book and she's kind of like more focused on the salacious details. And she has these, like, dealings with Rina's family, and that kind of then begins to shape her, I guess, like consideration of how much weight she needs to actually give to the victim. And like, you know, I think that
that show does a pretty good job of it. But yeah, I mean, like you said, it is probably a sad reflection of the fact that this is typically how it tends to go. And so it's hard to like drift away from that source material too much, which is why I might just keep watching Vera on ABC, because she's got that funny little hat. It's always cute. Like, kind of like county crimes.
You should try Father Brown to nothing like a detective in a in a collar.
I see. I still, I think for me like one of the. And lots of people name check this. But have you guys seen Broadchurch? Like Broadchurch to me is like, you know, that's a great crime show that doesn't feel too like, you know, icky.
But how do British filmmakers and TV makers make murder seem so cute? How does that happen? I'm not really well-versed in the genre.
Yeah, I think they don't really.
Spend a lot of time watching ABC at night.
They they don't really show a lot of too much of the graphicness of the crime. And I think it's just the English way they're repressed, kind of their repression. They don't really leave room for emotion. You know, they've got a job to do and and they get it done. Um, also, I think there's something about because there's so many episodes in some of those BBC ones that have gone on for so many years, like they don't really have to give any emotion because, you know, it's going to be
solved by the end of the episode. And is it.
Happy Valley, another one that's been going on for like 500 years? Yeah, that's.
Actually a really good show. I'm in shock. I can't believe I'm here defending British crime. Um, which that does kind of bring me. Uh, as I was saying, you can go back and watch all of those episodes. Under the bridge came out all at once in Australia. Presumed innocent coming out. Two episodes to start and then week by week. Do you prefer your crime served up to you in one sitting, or do you? How do you feel about the week by week?
Uh, no, actually, I think particularly with a presumed innocence. Even though I was like really into it. I think that suits perfectly a weekly drop. I just like it's a bit too much to take in and you can't really like. I think the episodes are like close to an hour. Um, you probably need to like, marinate on it a little bit under the bridge, I thought wasn't as like probably like suited. You could just, like, go
at your own pace. But I think generally with these crime shows, it's better to have them like teased out week over week. You don't want to be like, it's a lot.
Yeah. I also feel like because Presumed Innocent, the concept is quite simple. You don't. It's okay to wait a week. Like you're not going to forget. Who was that character? What were they doing? What is this plot? Whereas Under the Bridge has so much going on that I think watching it week by week, you could very easily forget where you're up to and lose your way in that story and.
Multiple timelines and stuff as well.
Yeah, yeah, it becomes a bit more confusing. It is a.
Bit a shame though, because I mean, you know, I've seen three episodes of Under the Bridge now and you've seen the full series and you don't get to discuss it in the same way. There's not that kind of, you know, what do you think is happening here? What do you think's happening with this person? Who do you think did it? Because everyone's experiencing it at different times, which is a bit of a shame.
Yeah. You kind of miss the watercooler moment. Um, which I feel presumed innocent has, particularly if it has for sure. Yeah. A generation of those episodes.
All. Boy, they get you.
Yeah. Good. All right. Let's move on to impressing our friends.
Or as you wrote in the script, recommendations for friends, even though the segment is called Impress Your Friends every single week.
That's like.
Um, she's putting her own stamp on it. Okay. Yeah, that's.
Like a more austere one. Like this.
Recommendations for friends by Melanie.
Kimmy. Friends you may have. All right. Recommend to us your friends. Thomas.
Uh, well, my one is a bit of a strange one this week. Um, it's actually the new David Sedaris longread in the New Yorker. I don't know if you guys know, but I was recently in New York.
You also love David Sedaris.
I do love I.
Mean, that's not, like, a weird.
Thing.
No, I know, but I think you are, like, a true fanboy.
Yeah, I love Sedaris, and I think, you.
Know, which I like.
Meg. Do you like Sedaris?
I do the idea of you reading, uh, Sedaris article in the New Yorker in New York while eating a bagel and thinking about your bagel business is extremely funny, but.
Like, it's like, fucking not far off, to.
Be honest. Uh, no, but.
I bought I actually bought a bunch of magazines while I was there because I was like, that's kind of what you do when you're overseas. I don't buy magazines any other times. But I bought, like it's kind of a novelty too, because I got like Vanity Fair, The New Yorker and, um, some other fucking magazine anyway.
But like, shout out print media.
But I just bought it because I was in a bookshop. And then I opened it up and I was like, oh, there's actually a Sedaris story in here. And he doesn't write for them that often anymore. And yes, I do really like him. Um, saw him last time he came out at the opera house. Did you actually kind of a weird show, to be honest. He's he's going drifting a little bit into, like, the kind of weird older
man woke like weird older man. Like, I hate cancel culture territory, but that's a story for another day.
So it's fun.
Anyway, impress your friends with this David Sedaris longread because it actually is really funny. Um, it's called notes on a Last Minute Safari, and it's basically as many of his stories are. It's just about a trip he and his husband, Hugh, took to Kenya a last minute safari.
And it's very, very funny. He talks about kind of the strange dichotomy of being like on these, like, you know, made for tourists tours, but then also staying in what he calls the most glamorous tent that he's ever been in. It's like better than most apartments he's ever owned. So yeah, it is classic Sedaris. Very funny, I enjoyed it. Um, can recommend specifically eating a bagel while enjoying it in, uh, the Lower.
East Side, a bagel.
From Thomas Mitchell's new bagel.
Business.
Yeah, yeah. Watch this space for the bagel business coming soon.
Can I ask? I used to be very into David Sedaris.
And. And did you grow out of it? No.
But I did. He's very obviously very good at what he does. But is he still. I feel like once you've read, like, a lot of David Sedaris, you kind of get his thing. And I kind of grew out of it.
Oh my God, you're kidding.
I'm kidding. But, um.
I mean, you're not kidding his style.
I mean, I haven't read his stuff for, like, a long time. I mean, has he changed his style or he's still doing what he does really well?
Yeah, I think, like.
I mean, yeah, sadly for my simple tastes, Melanie, uh, I, I enjoy what he does. I think he's funny. Like. Yeah, I agree, like, I've read I've read all of his books. They all give you the same thing. You probably don't want to like you can't read them back to back to back. But yeah, I think he's a really funny writer. And, um, sometimes I just want to have a laugh while I am reading.
Thank you for your recommended.
For me, for me and the other. Like people who like the low hanging fruit, um, read, read, read notes on a last minute safari by David Sedaris.
And then, I don't know, I love the.
The segment's called Impress Your Friends, and you've only been roasted by a.
Friend. Yeah, exactly.
Well, that's why we rebranded.
It as a.
Recommendation for.
Your friend. It'll impress my dumb friends.
Um, if you're friends with Melanie, then obviously, uh, check out parade, the new Cusk. Um, it's completely fucking incomprehensible, but.
All right. Meg, what? Are you okay? Yeah, like. I'm sorry. I've made this a very antagonistic section.
All right, all right. Meg, what have you got?
Sorry. It's happened. Um, Meg, what have you got for us?
Um, I have got an album because I don't have much TV to recommend on Tenplay. Unfortunately, um, it's Jessica Pratt's new album here in the pitch, which came out last month, but I'm slow to getting getting to this week. Um, and also her music generally. I mean, this is her fourth album. She's been around for a while. The kind of person who her songs pop up in Spotify playlists all the time when I'm just like, oh, songs for
a Rainy walk. And it's like, oh, so dreamy, so nice. Um, but this album in particular is really great for people who don't know her. She's a singer songwriter from the US who's been compared to Joni Mitchell a lot. She does folk music, but kind of like ethereal, psychedelic folk type stuff. This album in particular was, um, inspired by LA and like the late 60s, so it's got deep
Manson vibes for all those motorheads out there. Um, this kind of sunny and sinister mix, which, uh, is really nice listening at the moment when you know you're in a cold, wintry Melbourne morning and want to feel like you're in sunny 60s L.A..
I think that is so true. Meg, I really agree with this recommendation, mainly because I.
Made it a few weeks ago. Did I missed it?
I think this album is so good that I reckon we can have it twice on there just for, uh, people who haven't listened to it because it's quite it's it's a short album too, but you just feel like I.
Was just going to say it's nice. It's like nine songs. It's so digestible. You don't feel overwhelmed by the content of some other creators. Um, would.
I get it.
Or would I?
I reckon I could see you with your.
New Yorker and.
Your bagel and listening to.
These kind of folky sounds. I think you'd love.
It as long as you could be there to explain.
It to me. Oh, here we go. What's yours? Okay.
Mine is, um, is Queenie, which is on Disney Plus. It's based on the book, um, Candice Carty-williams book. Uh, it's a eight episode series. It's kind of a coming of age. It's set in south London. It follows the main characters. Queenie's kind of. She has a break up and then recovering from that. But it's got a lot about her family dynamic as well. Look, it's a really
watchable show that's getting better with every episode. I'm about four episodes in, um, but it's a really good depiction of, um, South London Gen Z. Um, there's lots going on in it, but it's also very funny. Um, so if you're looking for a kind of nice show, um, change.
Of pace from the.
Many murders.
From the many murders.
This is a good one. It's got a lot of heart. Um, at the same time as. It's very funny. And I like all the shots of, um, London as well.
Did you say it was on Disney+? It's on.
Disney+.
Yeah. So you can't watch Meg, unfortunately. Well, yeah.
One more day. One more day. Um, I feel I feel like there's a lot of good stuff going under the radar on Disney at the moment. I mean, that was clipped as on Disney. We talked about that last week. Yeah. Worth checking out when.
They're coming soon and then everything will.
Be as it should be.
And then everyone discovers all the shows that they've missed.
Yeah, yeah. It is like that, isn't it? When you go onto a stream you haven't looked at in a while and you're like, oh, there's I'll sit with this for the next day or two. Do you have a.
Little countdown timer, Thomas, for the season drop of the bear?
Uh, no, I don't I'm obviously very excited. And look, in one of the I think it was the Vanity Fair that I read. Ayo Edebiri was on the cover. Um, actually really interesting interview, blah, blah, blah, but she I didn't realize.
Um, are you trying to do a second recommendation because your first flopped? Yeah.
I stand by it. Me and all the Sedaris heads just getting confused by left and right. But the she basically worked as a barista at this, uh, restaurant in New York called ABC kitchen. And the day I read the story, I went there for dinner. Wow.
Because of that? No, no, no.
No, like before, like when she, like, lived in New York and was like, just studying acting or whatever and was like a barista there and then. Yeah. So that was a fun tie in.
Wow. That's great. There you go. You didn't see any anyone famous? But you got to go.
Yes, I got to have person at work. Yes.
Close proximity to where I once worked, which is good enough for me.
What a highlight. Well, thank you so much, guys. We'll be back next week to No Doubt. Talk about the bear.
Yes thanks guys Joe.
Thank you. Bye.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share it with a friend. I'm Melanie Kimbrough and we'll see you next week.