Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald. In the age, we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cadbury, folks. We're back. You're excited to be back. You're well, I am.
So excited to be back. I have really missed hanging out with you guys here once a week. It's been a real absence in my life.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be back. I think more importantly, you know, we're giving the fans what they want. The trio is back together and yeah, it's been a long time off work and a long time since we've been sitting here together. So very exciting.
I also like that you guys are doing a really good job of pretending, like we don't talk constantly and all the time, and have a lot of very boring work chats and slack chats throughout the day. This is a good energy though. This is the first time we're sort of like sitting in the studio getting ready to talk about everything that's going on in pop culture. I think it's exciting.
Yeah, I feel like we're out. We have a WhatsApp dynamic, a slack dynamic, and in real life dynamic, the.
WhatsApp dynamic very different to this, I would say. So like this is a whole this is like being back in this room is very different because I feel like especially you always been on WhatsApp, I feel like you're maybe 50% of your best, whereas in here you're 100%.
That's a brutal.
I don't give you guys 100% of my like attention on WhatsApp. I'll admit that you got you got 20% of my brain in the WhatsApp chat. But here you have like 110% of me.
Yeah, I can feel it. I can feel all of you here.
Yeah. And we're more likely in the WhatsApp chat to be talking about certain leaked Drake videos than we are on the podcast.
Which made me watch this morning. I did.
I didn't I didn't make you watch it, but you were curious to watch it. And then Mel was like, she had all the emotions in the 13 seconds. So yeah.
It actually took me a while to realize what was going on.
I'm not going to say that.
And so it has been a minute since we've all been together on the pod, and there's like a lot to talk about, but I actually think we need to start with something that that surprised me on my social feed this morning. It was a video of a certain Holly Candy Neve lands, and you might remember her from her stint as Flik Skully from neighbors did not expect to be talking about holly villains or neighbors, but this is like a big viral moment in Australia and the
world right now. Uh, yes. Just flick on neighbours. You guys probably also remember her song Kiss Kiss from 2002, but you did not know that that was a cover of a 1997 Turkish song and an extra little fact for you, Thomas. The first English language cover, which is the one that Holly herself actually covered, was by a great American singer, Stella Salil. Like, that's pretty cool.
That's perfect. I love Greek facts, as we know. Uh, obviously don't want to get into the whole Ottoman Empire situation so early in the pod. Uh, but also, I've always I was always more of a naughty girl guy as opposed to kiss kiss. But really.
No, I was a big kiss kiss fan.
Yeah, that was in the era when, like all the film clips of that era, everyone was like, sweating. And it was always raining. Um, inside of rain. Yeah, that was a good hot, wet era.
Yeah.
Good.
Um, villains has been keeping a pretty low profile for the last little while. A lot of people maybe. Don't know, but she's married to this British billionaire property developer called Nick Candy, and she was photographed. It's like the last time she was part of the conversation. She was photographed at Mar-A-Lago alongside Trump a couple of years ago. And people are like, what's going on? Well, it turns out her husband is like a conservative donor and sort of
like political figure. And that's again how she's cropped up. So this week, she gave this short interview to a British TV journalist who was at the launch event for former British prime Minister Elizabeth Truss's new like faction of the Conservative Party, the popular conservatives and and Holly villains was asked about her political views by the journalist.
Where are you politically? I would say that.
Everyone starts off as a lefty and then wakes up at some point after you start either making money working, trying to run a business, trying to buy a home, and then realizes what crap ideas they all are, and then you go to the right.
And then she started talking about how much she loves Liz Truss, and she wants Jacob Rees-Mogg, another conservative figure, to be prime minister. Honestly, guys, did you ever think you'd be talking about Holly Valance views not just on politics, but on the leadership of the British Conservative Party?
I mean, I personally did, um.
I haven't thought of Holly Valance probably since Kiss Kiss. Well, I.
Actually have a funny, um, possibly surprising contribution to this segment, which maybe you guys didn't think I'd have much to say on. But here we are ages ago. Osmond, you may remember this. You made me write a story on when she was photographed at Mar-A-Lago with. I do remember Donald Trump and I wrote like a funny whatever story
about it. Anyway, you know how sometimes you have those stories that on Twitter, they just live forever and you just keep getting notifications about them like years after because the story has somehow found its way into, like, I don't know, weird circles, like political circles on both sides of the spectrum. And I constantly get retweeted in it cause some. Someone is keeping a list of everyone that ever visited Mar-A-Lago and this story is on the list.
So I get like 30 notifications a week just about this one story. And I mean this thread that's been going for like five years with like 50,000 comments.
That's like keeping your traffic numbers here alive.
Yeah, yeah, it's great for me. But yes. So I actually do think about Holly Valance more than I probably care to admit.
What did you think? Were you surprised? It's sort of fun to see her reemerge in this way.
I think the video is just amazing, isn't it? It's the smile she does at the end, the way she just cuts off the conversation with this smile and it's not even really thinking about what she's saying. It's amazing audio. Like it feels like something like satire. It feels like something you would write if you were trying to parody someone being right wing. Well, I.
Know that last year you became a home owner. Do you feel like you're now firmly on the right?
Because I'm sad. Yeah.
You woke up and you were like, well, I've got the keys now. And yeah.
I'm part of the I like.
That, she says. I like that. Holly villain says it's when you stop making money or trying to run a business, you become right wing as opposed to marrying a right wing billionaire with strong links to the US Republicans. In UK conservatives, this.
Is a real rich man north of Ramsey Street moment.
How do we how do we feel she she in the rankings of like neighbors alum right. Kylie is right up there Margot Robbie obviously right up there I mean Holy Valence is pretty up there. She's she's discussed by people in the States, in the UK, in Australia. She's got to be one of the top, top five most well known neighbors. Folk man.
She's not even the best of the Lance. It's been on the show like I'm Tim Olympia, uh, Olympia Valance.
And if you want to go one hit wonders, Natalie Imbruglia torn like that was a banger. She was great on the show. You know who else? Because I didn't actually watch neighbours. But you know who else I have figured out since it was.
Natalie Imbruglia on Neighbours.
Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, wow. I did not know that.
There you go. There you go. From that corner. Um, you know who else was though? Russell Crowe for episode.
Wow. Okay. Cool.
Kenny. Lorcan. Yeah.
And he's also a musician with fog. Yeah. 30 odd foot of Grant.
So, no, I believe I believe that that band has gone on a hiatus, and now it's, uh, the garden party or something like that is his current musical outfit.
Yeah, right. Sorry, Tony. I reckon they might sound really similar.
Okay, to be honest, I could talk about holy violence politics for the entire show, and I might strongarm you guys into doing that at some point. But there's a lot more going on in the world of culture today. We're in the middle of award season. We've already had the Emmys and the Golden Globes. We had the Grammys just this week, and the Oscars are around the corner
in March. I wanted to talk to you guys about what kind of relevance these award shows still have, and what they tell us about how we consume and discuss TV, film and music in 2024. We obviously also cannot talk about the Grammys this week without discussing Taylor Swift's appearance and the chokehold she continues to maintain on on the culture. And in exciting news, our Impress Your Friend segment is also back. It's our recommendation segment, and it's bigger and
better than ever. We're going to be talking about what we loved over the summer, what we're watching right now, and what we're looking forward to coming up this year. All right. Let's talk about the awards. I was thinking about how to frame this conversation to make it more interesting. Instead of us just going through who won and who lost in how we felt about it. And I thought it could be interesting to start by asking you guys
what role you think awards like these play. In our current era, the way we consume art has changed so dramatically. The monoculture is no longer here. We watch and we listen on fragmented different platforms fed to us by algorithms, mass culture, the way that we had it in the 90s and 2000 and even early 20 tens is pretty gone. So what is the purpose of an award show that tries to get everyone in a room and say, this was the best song of film or television released in the previous 12 months?
Yeah, I think it's become a really strange part of the landscape, but I think that I mean, to me, especially after watching the Grammys, they felt increasingly irrelevant. Like we will talk about it later. But the fact that, you know, the biggest talking point of the Grammys was Taylor Swift announcing her new album, which, like, was nothing to do with any of the awards. And that kind of,
I think is a microcosm for what is really happening. Like, these celebrities and these stars have become bigger than the awards themselves, or for people who don't really engage with like these works critically, they don't care. If Barbie doesn't win best film, they already think it's the best film. And I think what has kind of happened or where we've found ourselves, is that the awards, every awards ceremony is like the Oscars at home, the Lo guys, Grammys, Emmys.
It's all just like and, you know, a loathe to kind of get into this conversation, but like, it's just part of the content machine. So like, you know, the Oscars is kind of just like the season finale of like Hollywood, the show. And so like, we we just are used to this content. So it's like the awards show happened and we talk about the cold open from the host. That's like one part of the show. Then we talk about the performances. We talk about who was there.
Red carpet is another part of the episode that we're watching. But like, no one gives a fuck about who actually won because like, it's all so contentious and we already think we know who's best. And so it's all just like part of the machine. But we don't we don't really like need to know who is the. We don't really expect these shows now to inform us who is actually the best.
Yeah, I, I kind of disagree with parts of what you say. Like I think as all of the award ceremonies have gone through a reckoning, or at least on the surface, of going through a reckoning over the past few years with looking at kind of diversity in their judging and in the winners as well. And I think they're still trying to grapple with that. And the change isn't happening as fast as maybe needs to happen to ensure that these major awards maintain their relevance. But I
still think they deeply matter. Like, I don't think you can discount how powerful it was to see, like Lily Gladstone win the Best Actress awards at the Globes, or to see the cast and crew of beef talk about the importance of making a show about the Asian American experience. Like the change isn't maybe happening as fast as it should be, but I still think those moments are deeply important, and I don't think anyone really thinks no one really like,
you know, I've judged awards before. No one really thinks that the awards go to the best work. Like, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Oscars is about what's best, but it is about celebrating people who make culture. And I think that is good. And I think there are two different things here. There's like the televised show, which is obviously struggling and needs to change the ratings for all these shows are not great. But then there is
also the existence of awards as a concept. And I think, yes, the the broadcast needs to change, but awards is a concept. I think they drive people to cinemas. I think they make culture part of the conversation. And I don't think we can argue that awards are wholesale bad.
No, I don't think they're bad. But I just think and like, I love award shows because I do love doing all those things.
And you love winning awards.
And I love getting awards. I don't get many, but like, perhaps I'll get some this year. But like, you know, I love I love being a part of all of that kind of cycle. Like, I love sitting there and like as soon as, you know, we're watching the Grammys of the day straight away, we were like, what do we think of Trevor Noah? Is he funny? Is he bombing? Is he doing better than Joker at the Globes? Like,
I love partaking in the experience. And I do agree, like there are occasional like heartwarming, heartwarming, sincere moments that matter. But I think as a whole we're kind of like edging and edging towards this point where it's like, no one really cares what. Is being said at these awards or who is being, you know, recognized. We're just like watching it because the Grammys are on and like, maybe something fucking weird will happen.
Yeah, I like I like the distinction that that you guys kind of come into between the entertainment kind of set piece of what this ceremony is and the televised ceremony versus the role they play in kind of critical culture. I kind of agree with Thomasin on the first part of that, because it does seem like these things are increasingly becoming a pantomime. And I also want to be careful. I'm not necessarily necessarily saying it's like a bad thing
because like you, Thomas, I enjoy watching them. We blog them, we write about them. They're really interesting. But it's almost like the Grammys and the Globes and the Oscars as a piece of like three hour long entertainment is completely devoid from the critical side of it. It is just like the red carpet stuff. Who's going to go viral? Who's going to get asked an awkward question? Who's going to get made fun of? And that's probably always been
a part of these ceremonies. But the way that we consume news on social media and the way that we now, rather than writing like one story about what happened at the Oscars, which we would have done 10 or 20 years ago, we spend eight hours liveblogging it, writing like 300 mini stories and then break out stories. This, this all kind of feeds into the modern way that we create news media. And I think, I think like, yeah, again,
there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But I've been thinking about why it feels like even though the the numbers of people watching these things live is dropping down, the engagement from regular people about what's going on is going up. Like without giving out specific numbers. Our Grammys coverage, our live blog coverage is growing every year, and I find
that really interesting. And I'm I'm not sure whether that has partly to do with the fact that maybe there's so much grim, sad, heavy stuff in the rest of the news cycle. And so people are like, well, I just want to spend some time seeing who's performing well and who's making jokes and whatever I'm going to plug into that. But I also can't help but think, like,
I was thinking about this over, over. Sumner. I'm sorry to anyone who has the misfortune of like looking at my Instagram stories, but I was thinking about whether Stan culture and the way that we project so many of our values and ideas and ideologies onto artists and actors, and we kind of look to them. We trust them
more than we trust political institutions. And the media now means that these award ceremonies become like the most interesting battleground or the most interesting kind of domain for conversation and discourse, not just about music and culture, but about politics, about the way the world works now, because we actually care and like and trust actors and musicians more than
anyone else. And so we put a lot of our focus and attention onto, onto them, onto when they say things and onto which one of them beats the other, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that does make sense. But I wonder if the reasoning for that is because we care and trust what they think about politics so much as we see them as a reflection of that. If that if if that makes sense. Like, I guess I don't know if people are necessarily watching it because they want to see what
I don't know. Leonardo DiCaprio has to say about the state of things on the red carpet, as much as that moment on the red carpet is an embodiment of kind of what's going on in the broader world, like I and I also do wonder if these are, um, these are spectacles that it's kind of okay to engage with for people who maybe see themselves as usually distance from celebrity culture, maybe the Oscars or something is something is a is a ceremony that it's okay to engage
in and enjoy the celebrity and the spectacle of it. For people who maybe wouldn't kind of be so much on the celebrity beat, like it's a way of engaging in that in a kind of highbrow form.
Well, I think I think that actually speaks to what I guess I wasn't trying to say that we are so excited about what any of these people say about actual politics. It's more like find people our age or younger who care about anything to do with, like, politics, the way that a previous generation did or care about anything to do with like the media and stuff. And it's not saying that these people are now dumb and disconnected. They have lots of good reasons to not trust in
individuals and institutions. And there's also a lack of trust in Hollywood. But I do think where people still feel some connection and some sense of like, I like and respect that person. I'm interested in seeing what they do, how they interact. What they say about anything is probably boiled down to just like the world of art and culture, like it is musicians and actors more than it is politicians and columnists and that sort of thing.
Yeah for sure. And like, I think also the the whole style of these awards now is that you're engineered to kind of like moments come out of them, like whether it's like red carpet moments or like, you know, someone wins an award and says a speech and you wait for like, whatever will end up on the internet later that night. And so we do kind of like you go into anything, whether it's like the Met Gala,
the Oscars, whatever. And like few people outside, probably the industry really watched the awards in the way that we watch them. Like from start to finish, all, you know, 35 hours of them. But. You can get. There's always going to be like 5 or 6 moments that come out that then live on the internet. And often they are, you know, the intersection of like these people that we like, respect and, you know, are fascinated by and fixate on
talking about whatever's happening in the world at the time. And, you know, the marriage of those two things is then what that kind of seeps into the broader culture. And then, you know, like I had people that are friends of mine like, I know weren't watching the Grammys, but like pretty quickly into it, they were like, oh my God, did you see, um, Tracy Chapman and Luke Combs? And like, that is now already that's got like a second life,
that performance. And that was probably for me, one of the I mean, Mel made fun of me because I watched it about 55 times a day.
It was a great it was a great moment.
It was a great. And also, we'll get on to this because the.
Moments that he watched it repeatedly at his death.
He was watching it for Luke Combs, not Tracy Chapman, which is the bad thing.
That I love.
I love both of them. And I can't believe you don't like Fast Car, but we'll circle back to that. Um, but like, you know, that's already become something that is like represents more, I think, than what was just a beautiful, kind of like, breathtaking performance. It's become this like, big moment. And people, you know, The Atlantics is like a 2000
word piece on it today. Like it's, you know, we get these, we put all of these famous people that we obsess over into one room with a bunch of media, and then you kind of like adding, sprinkle everything that's going on in the world and then like, you just like, see what bubbles up. And then I think we love to like, dissect that.
Can I say to that point what I have found interesting, particularly in this year's awards, and it has slowly been happening over the last few years, but have noticed it in the latest batch. Is the focus on kind of fly on the wall moments of the famous people in in the crowd, like it's the Taylor and Selena conversation, like what were they gossiping about? It's the Calvin Harris and Taylor pass by the Olivia Rodrigo throw out to
someone in the audience. I feel like they really have shifted the broadcast, and this probably speaks to failing ratings, to being a bit more of a reality show. Like there's a lot of kind of attempted gotcha moments here, and I do feel for them because these stars are being like hot mic all over the place, and you do get the feeling that they're not always complicit. You know, I'm sure they know about some of the kind of throwaways. But yeah, I feel that fly on the wall gotcha.
Trying to create an ah, uh, like trying to create a moment out of reality that can be become viral and talked about is is a pretty interesting development.
Yeah. I want to put a pin on that one because I want to come back to that one specifically around Taylor Swift and how she sort of acted at the Grammys, because I think that's a really interesting example of someone who's very conscious of that and is not just thinking about what she's doing on stage, but when she's in the background, how does she look and who she is, who is she interacting with? But just just on the on the on the awards generally like before
the internet came along and like disrupted everything. Like you could have an Emmys and the people who would be winning the Emmys, shows like friends, shows like The Office or whatever that everyone was watching. Right? These are shows that got like 50 million viewers every night now, very rare to see any show get that kind of traction. But the Emmys seem to also be not really that interested in what is the most popular show like it's not not Yellowstone that wins the Emmys. It's Succession and
The Bear, which we love. We think they're amazing shows, but we also know that they're watched by a very small proportion of people, particularly when you think about the broad mainstream kind of American TV watching audience. And it's sort of similar for the Oscars. I feel like, you know, Bobby and Oppenheimer were two big blockbusters that both are nominated for Best Picture. But there are so many like,
films that have got almost no box office money. I think the Oscars have always been a bit like that. They've always sort of rejected going for the big commercial successes over most of their history. It's shifted kind of more recently. How confused you reckon people are who tuned in to watch the Emmys, and they're like, what are these shows? Why is like the kind of big network comedy that I watch not being recognized?
I don't know if they would be very confused, because I think you're right that, like, these awards ceremonies often come with the caveat that they're the critic's picks, and critics often don't tend to pick the mainstream readily accessible to the most amount of people shows. And I think that's the same across all kinds of prizes as well. Like literary prizes are no different. Um, so I don't, I don't know. Do you think people would be shocked?
Anyone who really watches TV knows the names of these shows? Is this just.
Is this you kind of is getting annoyed that succession beat Yellowstone again?
Yeah, definitely.
Keep Yellowstone.
It's flowers. No, I think it's more like it's not just about what's popular versus what is not popular. It's kind of like nothing is popular anymore. Do you know what I mean? Like, they used to be 5 or 6 shows that everyone watched, and the Emmys would award one of them best comedy or best drama. Now there's 50 shows that different people watch based on whether they're
subscribed to Amazon Prime or Paramount+ or whatever. And so it's really interesting when you boil all that down at the end of the year to this one award ceremony, and you're picking from things that even if it's good, even if a lot of people watched, it is never going to come close to capturing maybe even 50% of the people who are watching the Emmys. Do you know what I mean?
That's true. But maybe on the converse, that makes award ceremonies even more necessary and relevant because.
It tells people to go watch this show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in an.
Oversaturated market, all of a sudden the Emmys is boiling it down to five. And obviously people are going to have different opinions about what those five should be, but maybe that actually reinstates the importance of them as a way to capture a cultural moment.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you certainly see that bump when Oscar nominations come out, for example, you see people flocking to cinemas to watch movies like The Zone of Interest in Anatomy of a fall that didn't have huge marketing campaigns. And if they can still play that role in saying, hey, you might not be aware of this, but a group of people who care say that this is an important thing that you should watch.
That's pretty cool. That's like still a pretty useful role for them to play.
Yeah, and I saw that a lot. I think with beef at the Emmys. Um, and the Globes, like I had lots of friends that hadn't kind of maybe beef had skipped them by. And then we're kind of texted me to be like, oh, like beef one a lot like, is it good? And I was like, it's like, so fucking good. You have to go and watch it immediately. So I do think that is, um, still a role
that awards stream that awards ceremonies can play. But I do think and, you know, I kind of we spoke about this a little bit after the Grammys and I mentioned it in the blog, but it's such a for me, like such an issue with awards ceremonies generally. And the Oscars is exactly the same, but it's like we just have this obsession with nostalgia that has turned awards ceremonies into basically an exercise in just like looking back at
how great everything was all the time. And I thought the Grammys, like I would say generally that the take on the Grammys was it was a pretty fun awards ceremony. This year was pretty good as far as awards ceremonies go. But like, man, like, you know, Tracy Chapman obviously love her, but it was like Tracy Chapman, Annie Lennox, Stevie Wonder, Billy Joel closing out the performance with two different numbers like it was a lot if you the generation gap
of the Grammys this year was pretty crazy. Like you had Dua Lipa and scissor, like kind of opening the show and then Billy Joel closing the show, and there's two sets of audiences watching there who had no idea who the fuck these people were.
I, I understand what you're saying, but part of me wonders whether a lot of those names, and obviously not all of them, are getting recognition that they didn't get at the time. Like it was very important that Tracy Chapman was on that stage. And some of those other older artists that perhaps have been overlooked or haven't got the historical recognition that they deserve, do get a moment on stage. So I wonder if that's what they're trying to do, as well as appeal to the broadest possible.
But isn't it.
Isn't also like another example of the point I was making with the Emmys. Like there is never going to be another Billy Joel or Annie Lennox, because there's never going to be another artist that 90% of the world know and have like, listened to before. Like Annie Lennox is doing the O'Connor tribute, like when I spice dies in 50 or 60 years or whatever. Like they're like, most people will be like, I don't I didn't listen to Ice Spice and and that's not to diss her.
It's just that, again, it goes to the structure and mechanisms by by which we consume like music now. And I think that's a really good example of what the Grammys I think demonstrated was this disconnect of old musicians who have resonance and actually are more economically powerful than they used to be. There's a really interesting stat that, like older musicians and the catalogs that they have are now the biggest drivers of revenue to music labels because
of how streaming works. It used to be you'd buy your Billy Joel CD and that was it, whereas now you stream it so that those artists continue to make money for labels in a way that they didn't used to unless they were touring. Uh, and if you have a new generation of artists like Burna Boys performing scissors, performing Ice spice, performing, they're all great. They do great stuff. They've got loyal audiences, but they're never going to be like known by our parents. I guess they're never going
to have their broad resonance. And so I think the Grammys are trying to figure out how the Grammys, the entire music industry, is trying to figure out, can there be mass music culture again, like. Can there be another artist that every single person, whether they're 11 years old or 70 years old, knows about? And can we construct an award show around them? I'm not sure there will be.
Yeah. Her name is Taylor Swift.
Yeah.
But I'm like, okay. Taylor Swift is also not a new artist.
No, no, I know I completely agree with you and I do. I think it's a really interesting kind of conundrum for like you, you want to like you need to like balance this, the power of the past. And it always creates these really beautiful moments. And everything you just said is so true. But then you've got these, like, especially if you're a young person, like watching some of the Grammys on TikTok or whatever, like if you're, you know, seeing Billy Joel close out the award ceremony, that means
nothing to you. Like, yeah, it's yeah, it's a strange kind of like position to be in, I think. I know.
But maybe this is maybe it can be a more educative purpose of some of these awards ceremonies, because I think too often today we, like artists, make art without actually knowing what came before. And I do think there is some kind of enlightening purpose of like not to make kind of the Grammys, you know, a school lesson.
But I do actually think it's nice to see what came before and to see how these artists are building on legacies, you know, and maybe connecting the present with the past is kind of serves a broader purpose than just the kind of. So you want to.
Have more U2 at the fucking sphere in Las Vegas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, see, I mean, I agree with that, Mel, but I feel like I'm not worried about that not happening. Like, you know, when we look at the Super Bowl and the that the tributes to hip hop and whatever, I think the industry is very good at reminding everyone the powerhouses exist. What I think they haven't quite figured out yet is how do you get everyone across the new generation of artists and like like the beef comparison you
were giving Thomas for the for the Emmys? It wasn't clear to me, like who watching the Grammys is going to be like, oh, cool. Like, this is the next new cool person I've got to be across. That wasn't really established for me.
Yeah. That's interesting. Sometimes I think people have like two different approaches to like art. Some people like never move past what they were when they were 15 and like they just watched the same music and they just don't have interest in kind of moving past their early established tastes. Are you talking.
About Taylor Swift?
Yeah.
Very good. And then all the people I think seek that newness. So I wonder if, I don't know, maybe it's always been like maybe, maybe the idea that a certain generation aren't going to discover younger audience is true. But maybe that's also just how kind of it can be with culture.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I'm just saying they're a cooler old people than Billy Joel to close the show out.
Yeah. Like, seriously, the guy.
Looked like he was working security at like, so.
Well, we saw Bruce Springsteen at the Golden Globes. That was pretty.
Fun. Yeah. He's cool.
He's really cool. Yeah, he's really cool. Um, look, we've danced around the Taylor thing enough. I think it's time to just talk about it. She. She won album of the year. That's generally considered to be the biggest prize the Grammys give out. It's the fourth time she's won that prize more than any other artist. Uh, she announced a new album on stage.
So I want to say thank you to the fans by telling you a secret that I've been keeping from you for the last two years, which is that my brand new album. Comes out April 19th. It's called. It's called the Tortured Poets Department. I'm going to go and post the cover right now backstage. Thank you.
She emerged clearly like you said. Thomas at the start of this conversation is the dominant figure. Out of out of the awards, I want to talk about her place and culture kind of more broadly, but I want to focus on the Grammys side of it. There's a there's a lot to this one. You know, firstly, Jay-Z earlier in the night says it's pretty outrageous that Beyonce has won more Grammys than anyone else, but she's never won album of the year.
Obviously it's subjective because, you know, it's music and it's opinion based. But you know, some things, you know, I don't want to embarrass this young lady, but she has more Grammys than everyone and never won album of the year. So even by your own metrics, that doesn't work. Think about that. The most Grammys never won album of the year. That doesn't work.
What does it have to do with Taylor Swift? Well, I mean, Taylor Swift's one for Beyoncé is one zero. It's not necessarily Taylor Swift's fault, but the fact that Taylor Swift has one more Grammy Album of the year awards than every single black woman in the history of
music combined is pretty extraordinary. Uh, and I think, like, again, yeah, Telstra doesn't decide if she wins a Grammy or not, but I think you can't disconnect her complete domination of the music industry, the fact that the Grammys feel like they have to award what I think is generally accepted to be a pretty mid album in Midnights, like, I think everyone generally agrees that like Scissor or Lana, like had the better album that year. That creates an opening
for a conversation, right? About the grip, the vice like grip that that Swift has on on music and culture more broadly. Before we get into more, can we agree on that bit? Like, do we think it's like this win of album of the year is a little bit odd and therefore warrants a bit of a conversation around what is going on?
Well, I don't know, because yesterday I said I was kind of going off Taylor Swift and Mel's head nearly imploded, so I'm just not really sure what I'm allowed to say anymore or how I'm allowed to say it. And yeah, I mean, I mean, no, you go because we'll.
Come back to this, but ta ta. I appreciate that Osman, as a true debater, is trying to set up to avoid our prestige TV scenario. You're like trying to set up the terms of the.
Some definitions. Yes. Some definitions.
Yes. I agree with everything you say. The only thing I would say is, is Taylor winning four Grammys, Beyoncé winning none. Is it a reflection of Taylor's chokehold on the culture, or is it a reflection on the award shows and how they're set up in terms of who votes, the names of the awards? Who's allowed to enter, how the record companies lobby? Is it more a reflection of Taylor's chokehold? Surely it is, but it is also a reflection of institutional problems with all of these awards.
I think. I think that's right. I think the the really interesting thing is, and I'll just say this, I think Taylor emerged from this year's Grammys in a weaker position than she was going in, in terms of her reputation, in terms of how she's being perceived by basically everyone except her diehard fans. I think. I think it's hard to to be the most powerful person in, in entertainment
because you can only go down. But I thought her even if it's even if it's entirely even if it's largely more a problem of the industry and who votes for these awards, it's still her, right? It's her who gets positioned as the white woman who's beaten every single black woman and keeps beating them again and again and again. Maybe it's not fair, but that is how these things work and are perceived. But I think beyond that, I think there's a couple of missteps she made that I
think maybe speak to. Her being in a mindset of like the perpetual underdog that don't doesn't quite translate as well when you are the top dog. Her announcing the album on stage. I'm interested to hear your guys viewing that. I didn't think that was a smart move.
Yeah, I didn't think so either. I also thought it spoke to the fact that she was very sure she was going to win. Um, which, like, never really looks good. She's like, ah, everyone. Like, here comes the Dead Poets Society or whatever it's called. It's like, I think that it just seemed a bit tortured.
Poets department.
Poets is very.
Good.
Oh, captain. My captain.
Um.
But like, it just, I think it just like. So I had people, a few people slack me from our office being like. Oh, don't you reckon it's a little bit like, cringe that she did that like she was. So she knew the moment was coming and like, you know, obviously we know what goes into a Taylor album drop. It's not like I think she said, I'm going to go backstage and post this, like as if she was going to go back and post on her personal Instagram. Like,
this is a full label wide global release drop. So like, she knew she was probably going to win. I was so confident and there's nothing wrong with that in of itself, but I think it just felt a bit tasteless. And, you know, it's it's again, like that was a moment for her, obviously, but there was a bunch of other nominees and and like, it just it sucked the energy out of the room at the Grammys and made the entire ceremony. Taylor Swift is dropping a new album coming April 19th.
Yeah, I can't quite understand the the reasoning behind why she announced like that. You know, she obviously has her own broad reach and communication channels and platforms. It was confusing to me that she would use the stage of the Grammys as an announcement. What do you think? The kind of like.
I think, I think what it did was I think what it did was it made, as Thomas said, every single Grammy story about Taylor's new album, which is potentially a great marketing tool. But on the other hand, this is my point is it suffocated the rest of the conversation about the Grammys. It meant that other artists that were being awarded or acknowledged just dissipated. And, and, and and that actually is something that you can blame Taylor
for because she did it for that reason. She did it to emerge as the dominant narrative out of that great, calculating move to make a lot of money. But in terms of being seen as someone who supports the wider industry, like she's in the most powerful position, she does not need the Grammys platform to to to push her record.
Yet she chose to monopolize that as well. Which is why I kind of think people are starting to now be a little bit more critical or a little bit more like, oh, this kind of calculating stuff was great, but now you are the biggest artist in the world. You don't need to really do that.
Yeah. And that's why I do see it as like a misstep for her PR, like the backlash to that and that that narrative would emerge seems to me kind of obvious. So like, I do feel like that's a misstep on their behalf, particularly as like this whole year, Taylor has tried to spend a lot of time speaking to the Beyonce point, at least performing or like making
symbolic public gestures about supporting other artists. You know, she was at she was at Beyonce's launch of her tour film and Beyonce was at the launch of the ER is tour. And you know, she's backing Sabrina Carpenter, she's standing up singing for, um, for Olivia Rodrigo. So as someone who spent kind of, I think over the last year has doubled down on supporting other female artists, it did feel like an odd thing to then go and try and monopolize the show, or at least that be
the outcome of what? What she.
Did. Yeah. And it's funny, like, do you reckon she would have done the same thing had she, because she obviously announced the drop on like the lesser award. Like, would she have done the same thing had she not won the first award? And like, had she gone on to win album of the year, do you think she still would have taken?
I think so, I think it was just like whichever award, like you might not win album of the you've won this one, so like let's go. But also who knows, like maybe the label is told by the Grammys she's going to do it. Maybe the Grammys are aware of this happening. Like I wouldn't be surprised. I think your point about her dancing to Olivia Rodrigo is really interesting, though, because that's an example of where, like someone like Taylor
really can't win. And so I sort of still feel sympathy for her in the sense that there's so many rumors that Olivia's album vampire is about Taylor and there's this feud. So Taylor wants to show that's not true. She's supporting a younger artist, good on her. But then, like the footage of her being the only person at her table standing up and dancing kind of also looks like she's making this moment about herself and that that's tricky.
Like you can't win in that situation. But I think all of these things together, like her announcing the album, dancing, being in the background all the time, the Celine Dion like perceived snubs, a little bit of Gus from Matt Bellamy, who hosts the town podcast out of Out of LA, who says that he spoke to people in Taylor's camp and they were aware that her taking that award from Selena without sort of sharing her with praise or whatever,
was perceived badly, very, very quickly. And so they orchestrated that backstage photo of them. So, so for anyone who thinks that we're overanalyzing and that people just, like, make mistakes and do things, no, no, no, everything you're seeing is being hyper scripted and planned. And I think that's why I find it a worthwhile topic to like, interrogate.
But Mel, when we were talking about this yesterday after the Grammys, I was sharing some of these views and you said something I thought was really interesting, like, well, of course the backlash is coming. This is inevitable. She's so powerful. Can you talk me through that? Like, why? Why would it be inevitable to see this shift that we're talking about?
Yeah, I do think, and particularly when you speak to those points where she can't do right either way, and when you start to see the narrative that it's always wrong, that's when you kind of maybe start to think, oh, the backlash is coming. I think it's what you said before. She is the most powerful female entertainer at the moment, and I think media cycles thrive off kind of, you know, we build her up and people love that. And then media like to tear her down and people love that.
And I do think it's a cycle that you see particularly with female stars. And we've seen it for many years. You know, we.
I've spoken.
With Ben Affleck in Gone Girl. That's basically his speech in that film is.
Yeah.
And like we've spoken before about the kind of, you know, we've been revisiting a lot of these kind of stars from from the 2000 Paris Hilton, um, Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, of course, stars that kind of female celebrities that go up and then get torn down. And I do think it is particular to the pop cycle as well, because I think pop stars are. To reinvent themselves. They have a version of themselves, Britney and her kind of innocent era.
They get destroyed and then they have to rebuild themselves. Britney in her sexy era. And we've seen Tyler have to do this before from 2016. Coming back to reputation, I just think it's kind of like how I guess it's how capitalism. Holly. Holly might have some more insight on this. Um, I'm gonna throw it back to Holly Candy. I guess it's how, like, kind of capitalism works in a way. Like, it's how they fuel money and media and power and celebrity. It's this kind of up and down,
and it is gendered. And I like I think it is particularly gendered. But I mean, it won't surprise me now if the backlash against Taylor kind of starts in force.
I appreciate that, but at the same time, it does feel like, especially over the last maybe 12 months, as Taylor has kind of gone into this almost like new level, even for her of like total like it's like mass saturation, you know, the to uh, the album, the high profile relationship. And it's just been like and we spoke about it kind of on the pod last year. You know, she's
kind of in this almost like untouchable era. And so it feels like then if you because there is a culture of that kind of backlash and that all of that stuff you said is valid and has happened before, but then if you do look to have a, I guess, a valid conversation about the way in which the, you know, fandom has developed around her and her response to that.
And just, I guess, any kind of critique of Taylor becomes this thing where it's like you, you're just part of that problem in that you're, you know, tearing someone down because they're on top, and then you just get lost in the noise. Do you want.
Me to go with that?
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I feel like you're ready to respond.
All right, well, look. Taylor. Taylor! Taylor! Mitchell! Over here. Thomas Mitchell has been, like, making this case that, you know, he's scared of the Swifties. They're gonna destroy him. He can't speak out against Taylor Swift because God, God, forsake the armies of Taylor fans that will come after him. I mean, I just don't buy it. You're on the podcast now speaking out against Taylor Swift. And you know what it really reminds me of? Like when obviously the
kind of politics of this are different. But when Ricky Gervais stands up and does like a stand up set on Prime television and he says, I can't make the jokes I want to make anymore, and then he goes and.
Makes the joke compare me to that's what.
You're saying. I can't I can't criticize Taylor anymore. As you continue to criticize Taylor like there is no I think you can say what you want about Taylor. And I mean, my concern is like that overexposed women often feel that they need to retreat from the limelight. Like Margot Robbie was just saying it the other day that she's concerned people are getting sick of her, and after Barbie,
she wants to disappear. Jennifer Lawrence said the same thing that she was worried people were getting, you know, didn't want to see her anymore. So she retreated. And like, I feel like that's what people want Taylor to do because that's what we've seen really powerful women do is retreat, and we're not getting that retreat. And then it's like, well, we're silenced by her fans. And I just I don't really buy it.
It is it's not going to be great optics if I weigh in here and say, well, I actually agree. I agree with Thomas. Um, because I think, I mean, everything you said is right. Melanie. Also, you know, like we write, things were criticized by people. That's part and parcel of the job. So it's not it's not a great enough excuse for us to be like, oh, we're too scared to write about it. But at the same time,
it is also true. And it has been true for a long time that a lot of pop artists, but Taylor's fan base in particular, are very good at like organizing and flaming and trolling critics who give her albums reviews that are less glowing, that there should be people who kind of talk about these issues and that that I think has and I think this is what we
saw last year. Like, I don't think Taylor got to the position she's in now with the biggest tour ever and complete control of every part of the industry and
music media just by being a good artist. I actually think the way that she has leveraged and and nurtured her fan base has been a big part of that, including to the point of awards, groups, awards, bodies, media outlets thinking basically the path of least resistance for me is just to say how great all of this is, because I'll get heaps of traffic from that, I'll get viewership from that, and I won't have to deal with the headache of complaints, you know, and dealing with like angry,
angry Swifties. So I think that is a real force that is worth talking about. Because what does it mean if she and her fan base continue to maintain that dominance on all of this stuff? And I. But I
also think there is something to figure out here. I was trying to think of a comparison for this, and I'm sorry to bring it back to politics, but I think like there's a there's a Hillary Clinton like comment to be made here in the sense that does Hillary Clinton or did in the campaign receive unfair coverage because of her gender and because of the way society is trained to think about women in positions of power, like 100%? Does that mean that there aren't valid things to criticize
someone of that level? And I think that's true in both instances, and I think the difference between the comparisons. You were making mail about Britney Spears and even like Jennifer Lawrence is that we're not in the 90s or 2000 anymore. We're in a slightly different era, and Taylor Swift has more power than all of those people combined. So she's very good, I think, at continually trying to remind people that she's still an underdog. She's just a young woman trying to make it into a man's world.
That's true to an extent. She's also a billionaire, ruthless corporate political media entertainment operator that needs to be interrogated from that perspective.
Yeah, and I completely agree with you. Like, I think that it is incredibly important to interrogate the systems that create and sustain power, whether that's in culture or beyond. Like, I don't think Taylor should be free from criticism for any extent, whether that's as an artist, whether that's as a as a performer, or whether that's the role she plays in the kind of broader entertainment industry. And like, I think there are many, many valid criticisms to make
about her her politics, her style, her shows. Um, I guess my kind of only concern is that and of course, people write those, well, well-thought through pieces. My only concern is when it seeps into the culture in a more bullying, nefarious kind of way and you get the kind of takedowns that aren't these kind of reasonable, thoughtful explorations. They are just takedowns. It's the kind of ready to go burn Taylor at the stake, because she didn't hug Celine
Dion when she got her award. You know, I think it's when it's that and that is what. And I hope you are right. I hope we have changed like
from the past. Like, I hope this isn't an Amy Winehouse situation when every single media organization suddenly turns on a female artist and destroys them, the baying for blood like, I hope we have developed from that and I hope we are in a different era, because of course, there's a place for like, well reasoned and thought through kind of explorations into into powerful figures.
Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about how to make this concrete like, rather than just this being a esoteric debate about who has the right to criticize Taylor's thinking, like, well, what would you criticize her for? And, and kind of I think where I've landed is and it's actually not really a criticism of her. I think it's really interesting that there has been basically no one in the music industry who says it is kind of weird. The last black woman to win album of the year was Lauryn
Hill in 1999. Beyoncé has never one. Jay-Z brought it up, and that happens in a year where Taylor wins again. I think that is an example where people are too scared, whether they're artists or music industry figures or critics, to really be vocal and say the Academy has a problem, the Recording Academy has a problem, the awards have a problem. The industry has got a problem here because they're scared of being perceived as saying Taylor didn't deserve that award.
I think that is like an example of where the discourse has gotten a little bit constrained. And I think that's not good for like nurturing a generation of like artists who aren't Taylor. And I think what that might end up meaning is that unlike what things felt like five, ten years ago, the next ten years could be the era of Sabrina Carpenter and Olivia Rodrigo again, also fine artists. But is that going to be another 20 years where, like, no black woman wins? That's not good.
Yeah, yeah, that's spot on.
And you, I presume you will both be cheering on at the years too, or shortly in the next couple of weeks.
Well can I now maybe, maybe we don't have to go into this. But if there's I would be interested to know about what you actually think of Taylor as an artist. I know we're kind of talking about the broader things here, but as a songwriter and as a performer, do you guys actually like her music? Yeah, I think we both.
I mean, I know we've both been.
On this pod and I've been on the record saying that she's very, very good.
Yeah, I think she's a super talented artist. Amazing. Like especially in terms of her songwriting ability. Like that's an incredible pop song. I find her like personally a bit annoying. Like, I don't reckon I would hang out with her if, like, we're in the same crew. I think she might like be a bit annoying to me. Like, I mean, even the name of the album, like the torture. I've got to say.
This is the first album where I'm like, cringing very hard before it's at, just based on the song titles and things. But yeah, I mean, like, you know me, I much prefer to talk about the discourse around the art than the art itself, which I think is pretty good.
Yeah, but yes, I do like I'm been banging the album Midnights, not my favorite Taylor album. Um, but.
I find it, like, really interesting as kind of a different kind of pop star. Like if you look at, because I did watch the Eras tour, the kind of three hour bonanza, and even though I'd seen parts of it on TikTok, I didn't quite realize until I watch the full thing, like how little Taylor can dance and how little vocally she is really doing in her music. And I went back and I watched like the Rihanna Super Bowl, and even though she was like super pregnant
and not dancing heaps, the girl can still dance. Taylor Swift's whole show is set up around avoiding her having to do any dancing. And I just think that's a really interesting thing, because in the past, pop stars, female pop stars have had to dance and they still really do. Like Dua Lipa, for example, is dancing a lot.
But I mean, she's not dancing great either. Let's not use Dua Lipa.
She's got better. Do you guys remember.
How much Joselyn struggled in episode one of The Idol?
Yeah.
But I do think it's like, yeah, it's a big show to do when you're kind of the vocal. You know, vocally it's not, but.
You know what I mean? I. I agree with you. And I think but I think that also goes to like this is the subtext of a lot of what we're saying, like the grip that Taylor has on culture is really white culture. Right. And she is was a conservative country artist who's broadened out and gotten older and is a bit more bold. And she swears now and talks about sex and all these sorts of things. But at her core, she wasn't like the Destiny's Child era.
She's not that sexy R&;B vibe. She comes from the sitting on a stool playing a guitar kind of a thing. So I think you're spot on to pick up on that. I think there's like a very clear grounding of the kind of performer and artist she is. And even in these big stadium tours, she struts around, she does costume changes, but it's not a Rihanna or Beyonce style pop performance.
Or even like a Kylie Minogue kind of from when she was kind of doing her major tours earlier on when she was younger. But, um, yeah. Interesting.
Yeah.
It's good to talk about Taylor fatigue like a week before she decides to come to Australia and just it's going to be non-stop like it's going to be it's going to be a lot if you're if you're a little bit over Taylor stuff, I think you should book a holiday or something because it is going to be relentless over the next two weeks when she's here.
Yeah, the girls are excited, and I'd.
Really like friendship bracelets with you guys, I think. Let the friendship bracelets.
Yes, I would get around that. If you're organized those first mail, I would wear one.
I'm not.
All right, it's time for the return of Impress Your Friends, one of our favorite segment. It's our recommendations section of the podcast. This time I thought, because it's been a minute and we've had a big summer watching a lot of different things, it'd be fun to share something that we enjoyed over the summer break, something we're watching right now and something we're looking forward to down the track. Do you guys want me to go first or do you want to want to? If you.
Want to go, take it.
Away you go.
One of my fave recent film watchers is this movie called The Iron Claw, which I think we talked about when the trailer dropped last year. So A24 film written directed by Sean Durkin, who did The Nest most recently, it stars Zac Efron and Jeremy Alan White in their super jacked era. Uh, it's about the real life story of the Von Erich wrestling family in the 80s. Like professional wrestlers, it is a devastating movie. I don't want to give too much away. The story is there if
you want to read about it. It is very, very sad. But it is a very beautifully made movie about family, about America, about, I think, like and Sean Durkin said this in his interviews about different visions of masculinity and toxic ones and how you can sort of save yourselves
from it. And I couldn't really help but think about it in the context of the rise of Andrew Tate and people like him and the impact that's having on a generation, and Zac Efron and Jeremy Ellen White making a movie that seems macho and intense and all about big, giant fellas ultimately being a movie about how to love and look after people was quite moving and powerful to me. I don't know if you guys have seen this one. Have you guys seen it?
No, I can't believe I haven't because it's obviously got Jeremy Allen White in it and it's made by A24. And so I love those two things independently, but I haven't seen it yet. But it's so funny because one of my friends who actually is a professional wrestler was like, I'm going to see the Iron Claw. And I was like, sweet. And he takes me to outside and he was like, saw it? So shit, not enough wrestling.
So I reckon this is a lot of people who love wrestling are not into this movie because they say they've changed too much. And it's not enough about wrestling. It's like when I was leaving the cinema, actually, I heard someone talking about it's like, damn, uh, I thought that was a sports drama, but actually everyone ex and like, there was great wrestling stuff. It's a good sports movie in ways, but it is about kind of, I think, more cerebral stuff than just fellows beating each other up
in the ring and everyone. When the when the Oscar nominations came out and everyone was losing their minds about Bobby only getting eight nominations instead of ten or whatever, I was furious about The Iron Club, which got zero. I think Zach is doing something very special in this. I was pretty upset.
Wow, I haven't seen it, but you've sold it to me. The last film you told me made you cry past Lives also also was wonderful. So I'm also I love the idea of like, you know, everyone thinks they're going in to see these big, bulky men and then it's just feelings by covert kind of filmmaking.
Exactly, exactly. Um, the shows that I'm watching now, there's two of them, but they're pretty different, so I thought I'd flag them both. This has just hit Amazon Prime in the past few days. It is the latest version of Mr. and Mrs. Smith from the 2005 movie, I think by Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Very fun, very silly movie like not amazing, but it's great. This this show, this sort of retelling, uh, stars Donald Glover and Maya
Erskine from Pen15. It was originally a project for Donald Glover and Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and she kind of exited, and that made me a bit sad and stressed because I'm like, oh, what's going to happen? But this show rules like the basic premise of this is Donald Glover, Maya Erskine play, I guess, like assassins or secret agents who get paired up and have to pretend to be married and solve missions. They also kind. Start to actually fall in love. The
chemistry is awesome. It's filmed and set in New York. It is great, like action sequences. It's very thrilling. It's very fun. And they are killing it. It's like really, really worth a watch on Amazon Prime.
Yeah, I've been very keen for that one. That was originally Phoebe Waller-Bridge was attached to that and then she dropped out. But like, stop.
Talking, you weren't listening. I said all that up.
So I have watched the first episode, and I think the pairing of them two is so good and I'm going to keep going. It's very fun and it's a great starting episode. Like it's not, it's slow, but a lot of drama too.
I kind of wish it hadn't been a binge drop. I feel like if this was being dropped, you know, eight episodes week by week, it'd be something that would build up steam and it'd be a really fun one to talk about. But who knows how these streamers make these decisions.
I find that Donald Glover does like really interesting decision making, like he's done such a strange career, like from obviously Childish Gambino and then like doing the community stuff and now, like this project, he's like, he's someone who I really respect his.
Choices and.
Is the same director. Is Atlanta.
Right? Yeah. Here on Murai, who is an amazing director, does such a great job with this one. Yeah. Um, the other show that I'm watching and this is something I've just gotten into, it's it's not out currently, like it's a reality show, but all seasons are on Paramount Plus, which is where I'm watching. It's called The Traitors. This is a reality show. I don't know if either of you guys have played the game Mafia before. It's like a party game where you all sit around a table.
Some people call it wolves and or werewolves and like, you have like eight people or whatever. And there's a, there's someone who's, uh, decides who's like the mafia or the killers. It's three people decide there are three people chosen to do that, and everyone else is a villager. And you have to, like, secretly vote to kill people. And the villagers have to decide who's the mafia and punish them. It's like a fun party game. I'm doing a pretty bad job of explaining anyway.
They've been that time.
They've taken that idea and put it in real world. In in the UK version, which I'm watching, it's set in this like Scottish castle, and it's played out over the course of like two weeks, where they all live together and do challenges together and have to decide who to kill and who to banish. I've watched the first season of the Australian version, which is amazing. Like if you like The Mole or Survivor, think about survivor, but
without the physical element, just the psychological game playing. That is what this show is. It rules. It is so good.
What are they competing for? Is it cash.
Prize? Oh, there's a.
There's a cash prize. Yeah. It's like $250,000 or something.
It's so funny. I think when it came out on ten it like did really bad numbers and like kind of like disappeared without like any kind of ripple and then. Yeah, like it's obviously sitting on Paramount now. Um, it seems like such a show you would be into. I can imagine you on the actual show.
Itself probably.
Winning or being out first week. That would be like the two options for you.
Honestly, I could not, um, I could not think of a better way to spend a couple of weeks of my life than on this show. I would love to be on the show. I think it'd be very good on the show. The Australian version is hosted by Roger Corser, which is awesome. He does a great job. He plays it very camp. And in the second season, Guyton Grantley is like a contestant, which is a fun underbelly reunion. But one of the great things is on the first season,
people can like, lie about what they do, right? And like most people have boring jobs so they don't lie. But on the first season, there's this guy, Nigel Brennan. I don't know if you guys remember that name. He's Australia's, uh, only living, like, longest surviving hostage or something. He was taken hostage in Somalia for, like, two years and now is a professional hostage negotiator and, like, crisis management consultant. And he tells everyone he's like a university, like, um,
like pastoral care worker or whatever. And you just see him pull all the strings. It's really, really fun.
Yeah. That's cool. I've seen you. I've seen you, like famously posting about the show. I'm like, I can't believe this guy's watching traitors.
Like, he's. It's great. It's great. I think you guys should watch him. We should talk about it down the track. Maybe in advance of the next Australian season. The final thing that I wanted to, to shout out that I'm excited about coming up, and this is for all the freaks who thought Saltburn was a good film. If you want to watch some real class based thrilling drama, Get
Excited about Ripley, which is coming out on Netflix. It's based on Patricia Highsmith novel The Talented Mr. Ripley, one of my favorite films of all time, talked about enough. It stars Andrew Scott. So all you Fleabag heads who don't have anything to talk about other than the how much you love the hot priest should get on it as well. It's written directed by Steve Zaillian, who's the Oscar nominated writer behind Schindler's List, Moneyball, Gangs of New York,
The Irishman, Let's fucking go, Ripley, it's coming. It's in black and white. I'm very ready.
I cannot wait, I'm so excited.
Yes, we're very excited about that one. I think I shouted that out at the end of last year is my my biggest one to watch for 2024. Um, but yes, that sounds great. I. Shall I go next? Yeah.
Thomas, you take it away.
Okay, cool. Well, I my kind of summer watch was a strange one, and it's not a new show, but I do feel like it's a show that didn't make much of an impact when it came out. And it's bupkis on binge. So bupkis is the Pete Davidson show. It's, uh, very much like an autobiographical show, um, where basically Pete Davidson is playing himself, and he kind of moves home to live with his mother. Um, he's living in her basement after he gets some kind of bad personal news.
And it weirdly like, I really like Pete Davidson. So that's the kind of disclaimer if you don't, if you and some people really don't like him. So if you don't like Pete Davidson, then probably won't like this show. But I find his delivery and his whole shtick actually
kind of funny. Um, and, and it's almost like, and I know some people probably roll their eyes at this comparison, but it's almost like entourage for a new generation in that it has that voyeuristic like inside the kind of like famous circle world, but without like a lot of obviously the problems associated with entourage. And it's got like, you know, a 2024 lens and it's not really glamorous. Like he's living in Staten Island in a basement. Um, I find it, like, very funny. And it's also got
an amazing cast. So Edie Falco as, like, as his mother. Oh, well, I think, you know, famously Carmel Soprano. Then you've got Brad Garrett. Uh, and the best part probably is, like Joe Pesci plays the grandfather. Oh, that's cool, that's cool. Like Joe Pesci does. Like, nothing like he doesn't. He doesn't work anymore. So he's like, fucking amazing in it.
Brad Garrett is like Raymond's brother from Everybody Loves Raymond.
Yeah, yeah.
He's like, is his name Brad? And everybody loves Raymond. It's not important anyway. And then on top of that, it's got, um, it's like a stacked cast like al Gore, Jon Stewart, like a weird celebrity cameos that you would expect from a show like this. But also it's just. Yeah, I think it's like weirdly heartwarming. Like every episode is very clearly based on a real thing that happened to Pete Davidson, often intercut with, like, you know, pictures and videos of him like as a young child. Uh, so
I find that very funny. That's bupkis on binge. Um, if that is your speed, is there an Ariana? No, but she's mentioned a lot, and they joke a lot about his short lived engagement. And then, like, his mom is obsessed with the song. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah. She's always crying.
When he comes. Like he comes down for breakfast. She's like playing it. He's like mom. Like, seriously. She's like. It's very catchy. She's a very talented songwriter. That's that's.
Really good that that.
Show really went under the radar, like I remember when it came out, but then no one was really like.
Is it on?
That's on binge?
See, this is the thing. There's great shows, but no one knows where they are.
Uh, and in terms of what I'm watching currently and what I think everyone should give a crack, it's actually out today. How's that for timely? That's one day on Netflix. Um, so that is based on the David Nicholls novel. Um, they previously made a movie about it, but essentially it's we.
Nearly got through this without a book reference. On the first one back.
I actually thought about, uh, one of my references being Salman Rushdie's new book, but I'll be in that. Um, yeah, it's basically based on the David Nicholls book. A couple who, you know, meet every day on, on the same date every year for 15 years, um, really kind of beautiful love story. And most importantly, it's got Leo Woodall in it, as in like Jack from The White Lotus. Uh, he's very charming. So I thought that was quite a it's quite a cute rom com. Valentine's day next week it's
out on Netflix. That sounds.
Great. There was a, um, uh, Anne Hathaway movie based on that book, too, which is not very good, I don't think. Correct.
Yes, this is better than that. And just lastly, what I'm looking forward to is challenges. Um, the film, we've been waiting for that one for a while. So that is out April 26th.
The Sexy Tennis one featuring Zendaya by Luca Guadagnino. Let's go look at this so much. Look forward to already. And Mel hasn't even gone yet.
Oh, I haven't.
Even gone my summer watch is poor things. Bye. Off you go, Greek director Yorgos Lanthimos. Thank you so much. Big day for the Greeks on this pod. And by Australian screenwriter Tony McNamara, who did the great. It's won a lot of awards already, and I'm sure it will clean up at the Oscars as well. This is the one with Emma Stone in it. Have you guys seen it?
I have.
Not yet, I have.
I really liked it. I mean, I love yoga, I love his wacky, you know, sensibility. Emma was amazing. Mark Ruffalo was really great. I really enjoyed this film.
Yeah, Willem Dafoe in it as well. It's the kind of take on the Frankenstein myth. Um, Emma Stone's playing this 19th century woman her corpses brought back to life. It's so kooky. It sounds it, but it's really very funny and clever and it's interestingly shot as well. Like it is a point of difference to some of these other films as well. While if you do lovey stuff, you'll you'll definitely like this as well. Just a master of filmmaking. And I thought that was a true delight.
Great recommendation, really good film.
In terms of what I'm watching right now. Look, I've kind of got into the ABC documentary nemesis, the.
How.
The politics kind of recap of the you're shaking your head at me. Okay.
No, I got in trouble because I made a post about this, and then a lot of my friends turned up, worked on this show. So I'm sorry. I've heard great things about this show. I just like I don't. We just live through these guys, right? I don't really want to revisit it.
I know, but you're not really revisiting it. What you're revisiting is how they're revisiting it. Like that's. And there's actually one thing that I love most about it is that every episode for the new prime minister, they get everyone to describe the Prime Minister in one word, and I would watch it just for watching everyone try to think pretty good.
I feel like we should do that with random people we work with on this podcast.
Yes, I was so keen.
Yeah, I.
Know, let's do a whole EP.
Cantankerous.
And I've also.
I'm right here.
I'm right here. Yeah.
I'm looking at him.
Well, meaning.
Insufferable lazy. Okay, good.
Um, and also I'll just shout out, uh, part of the family, obviously, but I'm watching maths for maybe the first time. I know Thomas is to. It's become what we talk about. Oh, hang on. Sorry.
I think that's just your bonus check from nine coming in.
Right. So.
On TV on the greatest channel in the greatest country on earth.
Yeah yeah yeah. Just getting better every season. But it is a lot of fun. It's the first time I've watched it through. It's kind of insane. I'm a bit shocked about how some of the things are still going, like how they're allowed, but, um, yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll pick that up in other episodes.
Don't be so sure. But we might.
Yeah, well, when we do our reality TV, our competition episode. You're going on trader. I'm going to MAFs. Um, what I'm looking forward to. We flagged up before Dua Lipa's new album due out this year. I think she's having, like, she's kind of shone at all these awards ceremonies. She's rocking the red carpet, she's doing great performances. Houdini, I think,
is really catchy. And if it's a taste of what's to come, I'm looking forward to, well, Taylor's going to be a bit sad and mournful, a bit in her Emily Dickinson era. Dua Lipa is going to be in her fun Party Girl era, which I'm looking forward to.
Yeah, that's probably one of my most anticipated releases of the year, and Big Do ahead. Seen her a couple of times, had a great time and I thought Houdini like it took a bit to grow on me, but she's collaborating with like Tame Impala. That production is fun and a bit psychedelic and out there, and she's trying to dance like she seems to be really going for it and pushing herself, which is really all you can ask for from an artist.
Yeah, yeah. And aren't we all?
Yeah. And then as soon as she gets to the top, I'll be there.
Ready?
A great way to close the loop on our first episode. Back of the year, guys. Thomas. Mel. Really fun. Really happy to be doing the show with you again. Uh, hope you had a good time.
Yeah, I'll be making my friendship bracelets.
See ya.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Margaret Gordon. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share it with a friend! I'm Osman Farooqui.
See you next week!