Let's get into it.
Hey there. I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cambrai. It's been a week since the cultural event of the year. The decade, The century. How you guys feeling seven days after we've had a chance to process, to think, reflect. How do we feel about these two big movies, Barbie and Oppenheimer?
I am still obsessed with both of them, and I really want to go back to see them again so I can kind of keep thinking about them and pick up the details that you miss when you only watch them once. Because I've just been so enthralled by all the discussion and debate around them, and particularly Oppenheimer. And I know you guys are kind of the same. I've gone down a real deep dive into the history of that.
We've all been reading the Wikipedia pages of every single character in that movie. Well, I.
Was actually on Charles Oppenheimer, who is Oppenheimer's grandson. I was on his website last night. So that's where I'm at. And he was in the.
He was in the documentary that was there was the there's an Oppenheimer documentary that's on Binge. I just got American Prometheus, which is the book Christopher Nolan based the film on Delivered. So I am I'm well into it.
Look at Oseman. You can't obviously this is a podcast, but he is beaming like a proud father. He's never been so excited that we're all so.
Oppenheimer I went back to the movies on Saturday to see Oppenheimer for a second time and I was still blown away. I thought, like, you know, for such a long movie, quite incredible that I did not feel bored at all. Seeing it for the second time. The pacing was great. Definitely picked up on a couple of things. A couple of things made sense to me that that
I sort of missed the first time around. But the most interesting part of going to the movies again, and I'm really interested to talk to you guys about what your kind of immediate social group, family friends have been saying about these films. It was an amazing experience. It was like 10:00 in the morning at the Imax, maybe like 100 of the 600 people there were dressed in pink. So they were clearly ready to do the Oppenheimer Barbie double.
And we'd sort of flagged that that's the wrong order to do these movies in because of the intensity of Oppenheimer. I actually ducked out of the cinema like two minutes before the movie ended just so I could stand at the exit and watch everyone's faces as they left. And let me tell you, that was a sight. That was a sight. There was like mascara running.
Especially for the people coming out.
Yes.
Just you standing there watching them.
That was.
Very disconcerting.
I stood there just to watch people.
Well, I wanted to see how the Bobbie crew would, like handle it, because I think everyone was so excited and preppy. And I think, like our instincts were vindicated that people walked out of that cinema, not quite ready to go watch a fun film like Barbie.
It kind of sounds like you watch too much Oppenheimer And then you're like, Oh, let me do my own experiment here. Let me put my experiment hat on.
Are you wearing a pork by hat?
I should have actually dressed up as him and just stared really grimly, ashen faced. We destroyed the world. These films. I mean, a lot has been written and said about them already, but the amount of money that particularly Bobbie made in its opening weekend is absolutely phenomenal. I remember saying last week's episode that I think could make like half $1 billion worldwide across its run. It made half 1 billion AUD worldwide in its opening four days. That
that is completely phenomenal. It made $20 million in Australia, over $20 million, which, you know, without needing to rattle off a bunch of numbers for other movies, it's a lot of money. This is a big, big, big film. And Oppenheimer as well cracked just over 9 million in Australia. I don't remember a time where basically everyone I know was going to the movies in one week and to see all of these things. I imagine that's similar for you guys. Your friends, family are all seeing these films.
Yeah, like very few people I know saw both on the weekend, but almost everyone I know saw one of them. My wife went and saw Barbie on the weekend with her mum and sister. We did have a long chat as she was getting ready to leave. I was like, I think your mom's going to hate Barbie. I don't think she thinks because they're all like Girls Day and they all wore pink. And then she was like, It was.
It was very much that vibe. And I was like, Just prep your mum that it's not like, you know, like and Girls Day out.
What was Mama Kate's take on it?
Well, then it kind of turned into an argument where she was like, No, I should like it. Like, you're being so like. And now I'm.
Single and we're divorced. Yeah.
And then I haven't seen her since. No, no. But then I. So as soon as she came out of the movie, she was like, That was great. I was like, What did your mum think? And I suspect that she wasn't telling me the truth because she was like, Oh, she really liked it full stop. And I was like, Now you don't want to concede that I was right. I love that.
We've progressed from talking about your wife to now you just accusing her of being a liar.
I mean, she gets pretty character assassinated on this part. Anyway.
We sort of were flagging that the discourse for these movies, particularly Barbie, was going to be kind of unhinged. And it. Has been like. I don't know if you guys have seen the clips on Fox News and others were conservatives are like, I thought Bobby was just as great all American gal and this is some sort of like men hating like super woke film that has been like a
part of their action tour. But I think what is more interesting in a way is despite being kind of politically divisive, the sheer joy that the film has brought kind of everyone, it's just, you know, been so popular and so, so highly watched. I think that says a lot about the film and the merits of the film.
I was probably a little bit cooler on both of you last week, but the more I've thought about it, the more I have come to really, really appreciate and respect what Greta and Margot did by creating a big, massive blockbuster success that will be watched by everyone that talks about like interesting and complicated issues.
But you didn't respect it enough to go and say the second time I.
I was just trying to boost my guy Nolan's box office numbers.
He's just an IP boy living.
In an IP world.
Through and through.
So there's been this other set of takes where people like, Well, this isn't the first time two movies have come out at the cinema at the same time, and people point to the double billing of Mamma mia and The Dark
Knight Returns, like about a decade ago. And while that's true, I think what is interesting and why these two movies have caught so much attention is that since the pandemic, since we really stopped going as a society to the theaters, thanks to streaming, events like this have really been restricted
to superhero kind of blockbuster movies like that, basically. So I think, sure, things were different ten, 20 years ago, but in this modern, contemporary kind of film landscape, it is rare for there to be big releases like this on the same weekend. It's brought a lot of people into the movies from the people I've been speaking to who normally don't go to the movies, and a lot of them have been saying what's next is like, what do I go and see? After I've seen Bobby and Oppenheimer?
And I'm like, Well, go see them both again. I guess I'm interested as to whether you guys think this could lead to a bit of a revival, a resurgence of going to the theaters and what you guys think the next big hits could be over the next few weeks and months?
Yeah, I think it will. And to the point about apparently Christopher Nolan really likes this one weekend in July to release his films, but to Dark Knight and Mamma mia, I don't think that had the same level of excitement. And I loved the footage around Australia of like queues out the door of cinemas. I don't know if you saw those images of people dying to get in there and sessions being sold out and I just can't really remember that kind of excitement or interest in a film
for a long time. And I do think for people who for many people this might be their first time back into a cinema because they didn't want to wait for it to go on streaming, they want it to be part of the cultural conversation. Now, I think it might remind them about why they do like going to the cinema and how seeing a film can be a part of a can be part of a great day and a great night out.
Yeah, I think so. I love seeing all that footage of like people kind of lining up and stuff, I reckon. I mean, it'd be smart and I'm sure like distributors around the world are looking at this. Bob and Haim are phenomenal and being like, okay, maybe we should talk to some of you guys and like, let's line up some very different films and try and recreate the magic of this, like, weird dual release date. I mean, I had a look at what's coming up at the like
the rest of the year. I think the only thing we can get close to is like the big release of the Willy Wonka film starring Timothee Chalamet, being directed by Paul King, Asteroid City.
Wes Anderson is coming out next month. I think that will be big again. He seems to divide people more and people seem to know a bit more what they're getting with Wes Anderson Yeah, but I think that will be another big release to look forward to. If you're like, I want to go and see something.
Now, I think the and with like because I think with the Wonka one, there's like Napoleon coming out very near to it. So those two kind of similar thing to Barbie Oppenheimer you've got like Napoleon for the serious, you know, like Nolan has. Yeah, yeah. We're standing outside of cinema waiting for everyone to come out. And then you've got like Willy Wonka, which is kind of like the surreal, crazy, you know, type of film. So that'll
be interesting to see if people get around that. But I think, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more of this, like playing off two different kind of like tastes and like audiences against each other and trying to create a bit of a buzz around films. Yeah.
And I reckon Bobby set the benchmark as well for marketing and advertising. Even today. This morning I was seeing that they've kind of put a giant 3D Barbie that's stepping out of its box overseas. You know, they're still going with this campaign. I think it's really shown film producers and companies how important the campaigns can be and making that kind of momentous event that everyone can gather around. So I hope we'll see more interesting advertising and promotion from this.
Yeah, the big asterisks over all of this is that just at the time where everyone is getting really excited about going to the movies, Hollywood is on strike and that is leading to some films being pulled from release. We were talking, Mel, earlier this week about challenges, the new. Film starring Zendaya, directed by Luca Guadagnino from. Call Me By Your Name. That was supposed to come out in the next few weeks. That's been pushed back to May next year. Is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. April, I think. And also the dry sequel, which was going to be the big Australian film, and it was really important for Australian cinema, I think it was. We've had a bad year in terms of Australian films at the box office and this was meant to kind of be be a good moment. That's been also delayed because some of the cast and crew are part of the SAG Guild.
Okay, So fingers crossed that we still managed to get Napoleon. I mean, I'm not that hype about Wonka. I'm getting real Cats energy from the trailer.
I'm surprised. I thought you would have been about that. I'm mostly keen to say Hugh Grant.
As that is what was so weird about it. I mean, if it leans into how weird and wacky it seems, but I just feel that it might pull its punches and end up falling a little bit flat. But there's a fair bit to look forward to. Hopefully those big releases is also Scorseses Killers of the Flower Moon, starring basically everyone who wasn't in Oppenheimer that's coming out and June 2nd as well. So there's a lot more to
look forward to. If you've recently become a fan of the cinema and we'll be talking about them in the next few weeks and months. But let's Pivot to the Bear, The main focus of today's episode, season two of the restaurant focused drama to created and written by Christopher Storer and starring Jeremy Alan White. It's finally out here. We're not going to complain about the delay again. We've done
that on enough podcasts. We're going to talk about the first half of the second season episodes 1 to 5. Thomas The Bear is basically your Oppenheimer. Talk us through this, this, this return of the show. Where are we picking up from? What's driving this season and how do you think it sort of measuring up?
Yeah, obviously the bear season two was phenomenal. Let me just put that out there. So essentially, season two very much picks up where season one left off. So at the end of season one, Carmy and the crew find basically $300,000 hidden in tomato cans from commies older brother. And then they use that money to essentially the final closing shot we see in season one is Carmy, putting a closed sign on the original beef land of Chicago, and he puts up a sign that says The bear
coming soon. And that's basically where season two picks up. The plan is to use that money to expand the business and open a fine dining restaurant called The Bear, named after Carmy Bizzaro and his brother. It was kind
of their original idea to do this together. And I guess like that frame Season two, we get a very early speech from Richie about purpose, and the season very much is about purpose and self-improvement and not in a saccharine way, but we'll get to that because I know Mel thinks it's too saccharine, but it's very much a, you know, a season driven by wanting to improve yourself and and trying, I guess, against the odds to work together and do something great. Even if you don't come
from somewhere great, maybe. And essentially, that's where we see all the characters. Everyone has their own kind of journey. So Carmy and said are working together to start the bear. Marcus He goes on a journey of self-improvement to Tina and Ibrahim, go to culinary school. Richie is also doing his thing. And then you've also got Natalie, which is
Carmy sister. She becomes part of the business. So it's an expanded show both in terms of the roles for the ensemble cast, but also in terms of the actual episodes. We go from 8 to 10. And yeah, that's, that's kind of where the first five episodes place us. Essentially the team is back together. The original plan of Chicago is no more, and the plan is to start the bear in a very, very tight timeline. They go they give themselves three months to open.
Mel Thomas and I had been talking earlier in the year about our anxiety, about the return of the show because the first season was so tight and complete, it had this really specific story I wanted to tell. It came out of nowhere. It blew us all away. We were really happy and then the like. And the Bear gang is going to be back and it's like, Oh no, what will happen here? We're all a bit nervous. How do you feel about the second season of the show?
Look, and I am a bit nervous about speaking my truth here because when I came in yesterday and I told Thomas my reaction to Thomas, the.
Head shaking immediately, very quickly, he was.
Like, I've never seen Thomas look so genuinely hurt. And he was like, to use a cooking metaphor, he was bit like an apple crumble that had folded in on himself.
He's wearing his white shirt. I've got to say, every time I watch that show, I can't see Alan Watt anymore. I just see Thomas and I see Thomas watching him and getting excited and smiling when, like, commies doing things. Yeah, I know.
He's like, gaslit us into thinking they're the same person.
Oh, my God. This is totally driven by you to this car.
You're wearing a white shirt right now and.
You have talked about this show consistently, but when are you not talking about the show? It's more significant when you're not discussing it.
Okay.
Let's just get to the like crux of it. You called it the new Ted lasso.
Okay.
Okay. That's and I want to disclaim we are only discussing the first five episodes and I know there are some pretty stellar episodes to come, so my position next week might change. I'll also disclaimer this by saying I think it's a great show, probably the best show on TV at the moment.
Don't let him bully you, Mel. You're allowed to speak your truth. You don't have to preface everything you say.
Yeah, he's got very short temper like Kami.
Thank God. No, the real issue here is that you don't like it because there's so many working class people in the show.
Okay, okay. Not a single book being, right? Actually, that's not true. There is a book being read.
Yeah, that is true. And I'm ready to talk about Coach K. Like we can go into that, but. Right, great.
All right. We'll let you actually say what you don't like.
Look, my overall feeling is that it's just become a bit too kind of a show. And I do think it's not Ted Lasso and it's Ted. Lasso is a different show. But if you really look at it, it's the same mission. It's about a group of underdogs all trying to do this impossible task together, and they're all on their individual journeys of discovery, as well as a group journey of discovery. So it's really is the same journey they're on. And I don't know, I missed the
clatter and clanging of the first season. I missed being in the kitchen. I missed the tempers. I missed the kind of everything falling apart of that. And it's just become too sweet and too earnest. And I hate shows that moralize like I hate shows that spell out a message like, Everyone's got this. Really, Tina? Tina just needs to be built up by going to this culinary school. Everyone can do everything. Sydney needs to learn to stand on her own and find her own kind of confidence
in cooking. Like, I don't know, it's just give me Oppenheimer every day. That's the real world. Give me like the world turning on you when you gave it what it wanted. I don't know. It's just too sweet.
So I've been keeping my powder dry. Neither of you guys know how I feel about this. Isn't really.
Yes, but if you don't like it, I'm on strike.
I'm going to say. Yeah, Mel, I think you're wrong. Like I'm.
Yes, Come.
On. I'm a lot closer to Thomas on this one. I don't think. I don't think your description of the show is wrong at all. And, you know, I think that is what this show is. But I also think there's a reason why the first season of Ted Lasso landed and why it felt different to so much other heavy, grim prestige stuff out there. I think the bear is much better than Ted lasso on my view, but it has what you've got. But it also is more complicated.
Like the characters aren't quite as saccharine as Ted Lasso. The writing isn't quite as sort of like, Oh gee, willikers everyone, you know, there's a little bit more going on there. And I think what I like about this season is the broadening out. As Tom has put it, the ensemble is like much more, you know, part of the show. Like there's an episode that we'll talk about a bit later where Connie is not in it at all. In fact, it's just Marcus's character. And there are so
many extended periods where you don't see carmy. You just see these other characters. So I think a really interesting, really complex we find out more about their inner lives. It reminds me of like shows in the olden days, like network TV shows where you just have a concept, like there's a restaurant or they all live together or whatever, but that's really just an excuse to get to know these half a dozen people, throw them in different situations
and see how they react. And I think the bears closer to that than a lot of TV we've had lately. And I kind of think it's one of these shows where I would love like 20 episodes a year of this to just go deep and have different episodes like a Marcus episode, a ten episode, whatever, and go through some like funny moments, some darker moments. I think the structure of the show is there, but because of the streaming era we kind of live in, it's still contained
to first date, then ten apps. I do have some mainly kind of like food related gripes to like what is going on, But we'll get to that in a minute. But but Thomas, I feel like you are itching for a chance to return serve to.
Uh, no. I mean, look, if you really look.
At the little apple crumble.
If you listen to what I said, I mean, listen to what you said, it kind of is the same thing. But I just don't see that as an issue because I don't think I'm as jaded or whatever.
Yeah. And to be fair, I don't think like it's a much, much, much better show than Ted Lasso. And I do think it's a good show and one of the best shows on TV at the moment, but I'm just not quite in your camp. If this is the best thing culture has ever produced and will ever produce.
Yeah, I guess. I think what I like though is because I think it's fine to have a show that is a little bit sweet or it is about like a bunch of people trying to do better or trying to improve themselves. But I think like the way it's handled in the Bear is so much real. And what I really liked is like, you know, season one was very much about the cooking and like saving this restaurant and it was amazing and we all loved it and
we loved the chaos of it. But then season two is, which I think if you're in the creative industry, you can appreciate it very much, is it shifts from like being in the kitchen and cooking to then actually like what it's like to try and create something from scratch.
And I love that idea and I love, you know, like the anxiety I get watching them talk about like the bills that need to be paid, like the constant, like updating the calendar with like this and this and everything's falling apart and but like, they're all just like, doing this, like, horrific grind because they really want to. Come out of the other end with something that they've made. And I think that really appeals to a lot of people.
And on top of that, I also really think it's impressive that they have The Bear was kind of famous for its like chaotic speed and everything was always happening
all at once. Whereas this season they've mixed two different speeds and tones, like, you know, the Marcus episode or a few other moments in the show, like when Sydney kind of does her food tour of Chicago and she's trying to get inspiration, that's like it's almost like slow TV, like it's like meditative and the music matches it and it's like very just like it kind of pours over you. And then at the same time, we still have the chaos of them trying to get the bear up and running. You know?
Richie Basically every scene with Richie where he just screams like my heart races.
Richie and fake talking to each other is just like anxiety inducing. So yeah, I just I think also what has impressed me so much and a lot of other people in my echo chamber, which is where I get all of my views from, is that the bear has like, you know, second season syndrome is real and the bear has like taken a swing for something different and kind of pulled it off.
But doesn't it doesn't annoy you like you don't feel that they are forcing a learning down your throat and the learning is really obvious. Like they all have to do a little something to discover a little something about themselves. I think that's what drives me mad that it's so unsubtle.
Yeah, I've got some questions about some of that stuff, but I think what pulls me back in is character like. Tina right, who we've seen her arc over the course of the first season and then the first half of this season where she was really skeptical. And then she started to realize that actually this could work and she's going to use her natural talent and like listen and become, I guess, a more professional, serious chef. Like, that's a
cool story. And there's a moment where, like, carmy, like, gives her his knife and she's like, Oh, chef, this is your knife. I just wanted another knife. He's like, It's yours now. And her face lights up. And that's a beautiful thing to say. And like, maybe it is like obvious or whatever, but that's a character I'm invested in. I've been invested in for like over a year right now, and she is experiencing something really amazing and we're seeing
that growth being shown rather than than told. And I'm like, What else do I want from TV? Really?
Yeah, me too. Like, I think, I mean, you and I probably differ in that I'm probably happier to suspend disbelief for certain things. Like this is not succession, you know, and that's fine. As much as I love succession, still processing the trauma from that show. But you know, I'm okay to be like this. This can be a little bit, you know, unbelievable. And even I don't really think it is. But like the fact that there is maybe like a message in each episode that doesn't really like faze me.
I also don't I don't think that there is as much learning as it may be. Seems to be like Carmy is making all the same mistakes as far as we can see that he made in season one. Like the big kind of like is he he's.
Having a journey of self-discovery with his new girlfriend.
No, we'll get to her. But no, but like at the end of season one, he has a big fight with Sydney and she leaves. And then, you know, the end of season one, she. She comes back, he apologizes, and then they make this decision to go all in together as partners on the bear. And then, you know, we've seen the first five episodes and it's very obvious that.
A lot of tension.
So much tension and he's not really it's like is not a bad guy in the way of other kind of like anti-heroes that we get in TV as a.
Representative of Carmy and he's kind speaking.
Speaking for me and and the calm cool No but like he's he's almost like too much of a, like, insular genius chef guy that he can't like he doesn't realize what he's doing to people around. Yeah, his.
Flaws are really obvious. And they let him make them again and again. And we're supposed to be a bit annoyed at him. I think, throughout a lot of the first half of this season.
Yeah. And I really enjoying the Syd and Carmy kind of dynamic so far.
Yeah, I will agree that that relationship I think is really interesting and they've done a great job in developing that from the first season.
I want to ask about a couple of things that I think make absolutely no sense in this show, and I think it normally wouldn't annoy me that much, but I thought the first show was so good at being so visceral and so gritty and really recreating that sense of chaos in a kitchen like that. And it was praised by people from the hospice scene around the world. And then this one, it's a little bit more ambitious because they're building their own restaurant. Two things here that
make no sense to me. The first is, so they're on this tight budget. They're really stressed. They're in debt to the uncle, but they've got the money to send two of their chefs to like cooking school. And then Marcus just goes to Copenhagen for an and it's like that meme of like, please, my expenses $100 for electricity,
$200 for water, $1 million for Copenhagen. Like pastry chef, like no wonder your restaurant is like, maybe you worry about the walls and the plastering before sending him to learn, like, delicious pastry cooking in Copenhagen.
And they just gloss over it, don't they? They just say, oh yes, we've factored this into the budget.
Yeah. And then my second one, so you've got this great idea to make a fine dining restaurant, but you have no idea what food you want to cook. That's like Raoul putting the cart before the horse. It's like, we want a restaurant. We want it to be great. We have no idea what the hell we will serve to people. Kind of keeps talking about chaos. Menu. Chaos Menu like that is made up term. What does that mean? And they still don't seem to know what they're doing there.
Maybe it's because I. Think about this stuff too much. But did either of those things stick out to you guys? Are we just supposed to roll with it as the plot point for this season?
Yeah, I agreed in that description of the menu when when they're like, we don't really when Sidney was trying to explain it to her dad, it's a bit high. It's a bit low. It's chaos, but it's ordered. I kind of think both of them wouldn't they have real clear visions of chefs about the kind of food they want to create? As I was going to ask you, obviously one of the big plot points is Sydney really wants to get a star. Do you care much about stars as a restauranteur yourself?
Well, there is. I think there's a moment of conversation with her and another chef that I found so interesting and so smart is getting a star or what? We're in Australia with the good food guide here called Hats is almost like a blessing and a curse because obviously it says that you as a chef and as a restaurant, front of house team, all of that have created something really special that deserves to be highlighted and people should come. But once you have that, you can only lose it, right?
You either keep it or you lose it. And so the pressure and stress you get, I think it's actually carmy maybe that talks to Syd about this, about the tension of, well, now it's not just can we get it, it's how do we not lose it? And that can really change the dynamic. And you hear a lot of chefs talk about the pressure and the stress that that leads to. So it's like a poisoned chalice in a way. And I think the show is really smart at grappling with with that part of chef.
I would say I think you're right in terms of the menu thing. Like, you know, Carmy is a essentially like a bit of a hotshot in the fine dining scene. He would have an idea of the food he wants to cook. But I guess that would again, you know, I'm obviously somehow I found myself the defender of the bear. I guess for the sake of good TV, it makes for a better storyline that they are creating the menu
while also doing all this other stuff. I do think that I didn't have as much of an issue with like them sending the guys to school and Marcus going to Copenhagen because I think it's pretty clear like that Uncle Jimmy has a fair bit of cash and they're obviously just like, okay, we're going to borrow as much. And they set themselves as crazy. Deadline to pay it back like 18 months. But I don't think like necessarily the cash flow, like actually getting the money is an
issue like he seems to have a fair bit of money. Also, I think the Marcus thing like he's he's going there to work for free. He's staying where Carmy stay. It seems like there's a lot of favors being called in and so I don't think that would be crazy expensive.
That is also another really that's a really real thing. Like a lot of like really great fun dining chefs who've done stints in Copenhagen. Like, that's what they do. They find the next upcoming talent and they send them there to a guy they learnt from. It's a really cool thing to see. Are your guy directed that episode? Thomas You want to talk a bit about how you found that fourth EP?
Yeah, so that's kind of one of the ones that's had a lot of attention so far. Probably the biggest, most talked about episode so far is Episode six Fishers, but we'll talk about that next week. But this is probably the next one that's created the most buzz. It's called Honeydew, and it's kind of Marcus's episode. It's a bottle episode. So essentially we just spend time with him. Yeah, I think Lionel Boyce, who plays Marcus, is like a bit of a fan favorite. And, you know, the series
actually opens with him. His mother is in hospital passing away. And you get the sense that this is a guy that spent his whole life in Chicago and we slowly learn about him throughout this episode. But I just think it's a really beautiful episode. It's directed by Rami Yusuf, who we all kind of love, his his work and his show. Rami And it's just like this. He like, goes out into the world for the first time, essentially.
Like this is a guy who only started making bread 18 months ago, and now he's really found, I guess, his purpose passing out from the sickly sweetness of it all. And, you know, he goes and learns from this chef who is played by English actor Will Poulter. He plays this chef, Luca and and their.
Guy from where the Millers. Great film.
It's really sad.
A real glow. A huge glow up this guy.
Yeah, he's kind of like euro carmy like same Patrick cats and and you know, same kind of like is he a bad guy? Is he a good guy? He turns out to be a really great guy. And, you know, it's a beautiful episode. But one thing I really love was Luca and Marcus have this conversation about excellence, I think, which is a fixation in hospitality, and especially if you're a chef, is this search for excellence and and Luca kind of talks to him and he's like, look, you know,
I gave up trying to be the best. And that's when I became the best version of myself or the best chef I can be. And he actually talks about, you know, there was this other guy that I was cooking with in Copenhagen who we assume is probably Carmy, who worked at at Nomad in the Shows universe. And basically they talk about, you know, to to try and be the best as something is a guaranteed way to
drive yourself mad because it's impossible to achieve that. But what Luca says is that I just tried to be as close to him as I could be, and that was a way to improve.
I think it is so good that they got Brené Brown on the writing team for this.
I love that. Yeah, I was going to say, I love that Thomas was like taking notes during this and it was really heartfelt. This is great stuff. How to be better at meals, just like dry retching into a bucket.
He's like, he's printed them all out around his desk for when he writes his column. I will say, though, I did. I really did enjoy all the food shots in. I like the.
Food.
And they'll just want to watch Chef's Table.
I think so, maybe. And to the point of like why Cydney had to go on her own arc as well as Marcus. I do think that did give them a chance to show different styles of cooking and food being made and their connection with food, which I thought was quite good.
One of the few kind of new characters added to the cast for season two is Molly Gordon, who plays this character, Claire, who is, I guess, Comey's love interest. At least that's what we've seen from the first five apps. I have a feeling that on this one, Mel, you and I are in more agreement about this character. I do not like Claire at all as a character. Like not a knock on Molly Gordon. She's great in Booksmart. She's doing the best, but she kind of is just
there to like be a girl. For Kami to help Kami discover life outside of the kitchen, it's very unclear, like what her motivations are. It's the return to the manic Pixie dream Girl thing that I think we thought we left behind in the 2000. Maybe like it gets a little bit more complicated in the second half of this season. But just the whole like, I will whisk
you away into this party. That's an episode five and you'll have this great experience and then you'll open your eyes and like you'll be a more rounded human being. Like if she sort of just like, shimmied away and like went into the background or turned into a bunch of stars, like, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think she's a real person. How do you feel about her?
Yeah, I agree completely with you. And also there were so many like shots of them or particularly Kami looking at her.
Like she's very.
Attractive. I was like.
How many more do we need? Like, do you need to make the male gaze any clearer?
And if they really they really have close ups on her face when they do that, it's like she's this big, beautiful, like sunlight in his life and we get it. But that's also what annoys me about it.
Yeah, agree.
Thomas. I feel like you're, you're just champing at the bit to say how wrong we are.
Well, I mean, you guys have been wrong the whole episode. So. Especially you male.
I said, I agree with you.
I think it's a great show. Okay. Firstly, no, I'll hand up on this one because I, as you know, Mel, love a manic pixie dream girl both on screen and in my.
Surprising thing I've ever heard.
Have you guys ever seen Garden State? It's actually pretty groovy.
Yeah.
So, no, Look, I'm here for.
The cop guy.
I do. I do see what you're saying. I was, like, not surprised. They decided to introduce a love interest for Kami because it was such a big thing in the first season that they did it, and everyone was so, like, thirsty for Kami anyway. And I think it would have been no, but like, you know, the whole yes, chef thing, blah, blah, blah. The internet was like, Oh, it's so sexy, even though there was like no sex. But I had a feeling they would not do that again. And I like it.
I mean, like, what you're saying is all probably valid, but I'm never going to complain about two really good looking people staring at each other at a party for ages. Like, I'm cool with that and I enjoy the vibe. Like Kami is a fucking weirdo. Like he gives her the wrong number. He's obviously he needs some coaxing out and I think they do. Like they probably don't do a good enough job, but they do try and set up that.
There is a backstory and this comes in like later as well, that there is a backstory to Kami and Claire that extends beyond their meeting up at the fridge and bumping into each other or whatever. So yeah, like I don't have an issue with it.
I do like when she interacts with like his sister and with cousin, and that sort of speaks to this broader world. I think that's what the show is. One of the best things about the show really, is when you see these like bits connecting together and it really makes you feel like this world is real. And these characters have been around for decades and know each other.
And I think that's to go back to our earlier point about why I think it could be like a 20 episode sort of show each season is I just love feeling like comfortable in that sort of environment. I want to watch something where I'm like, Great, this is real. This is fun. Low stakes Chicago food. I love the family history. I love the romance stuff. That's what brings me the most joy.
And in terms of like plot development, it's probably quite handy to have a doctor on the cast as well because there are a lot of injuries going on in the restaurant.
Yeah, Richie is going to kill himself and everyone else involved by the time the restaurant is built. Okay, so we've been talking about episodes 1 to 5. There's five more after that. And the very next episode, Episode six is the one that's got the most hype, I think because of the guest cast, because of the way it's sort of been kind of shot and told Thomas, Give us a bit of a preview of like what's in store for the rest of this season.
Yes, well, firstly, I fucking lost my mind watching episode six. It's so good. It's so good.
Do you think it will change? Do you think it will change my mind? I'll come back next week with them. Yeah, because I.
Think you're kind of like. You're like, let me use a few genealogy. You're like a really well done steak. You're beyond taste now.
Yeah.
No, I think.
I'm going to have to sit with that.
One.
Now, if you want to make a calendar, invite with me to talk about that comment. I'm more than.
Happy to.
Put it on the giant calendar next to like opening soon. And no episode six really is amazing though. And I think lot of people are talking about that. That is essentially where we will see all these incredible guest stars that have been hyped. So we've got Jamie Lee Curtis, Gillian Jacobs, John Mulaney, Sarah Paulson.
Everyone who isn't in Killers of the Flower Moon or an Oppenheimer six of the Bear.
Season two, like.
The WhatsApp thread, will light up as soon as.
Right. Guaranteed. Yeah.
And then and of course, we'll be covering the other four episodes on the end of the series. Yeah. So I'm very excited for that. Naturally, as, as the only person allowed to do bear PR right now because the rest of the cast is on strike. Yeah, that's what's coming next week.
All right. So we'll be back next week with our second kind of deep dive on the show. And who knows, probably still some more. Bobby and Oppenheimer wash up just because I have a feeling they'll be takes coming thick and fast and there'll be a lot more to be said about how many people are watching these films. Thomas Michel, as usual, thank you both so much.
Thank you, chef. Let it rip.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share it with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.