Hey there. I'm Osborne Fruity. And this is The Drop, a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cambrai. Folks, we're recording this podcast the day before the Emmy nominations are announced. Maybe bad timing. Maybe we should have waited another day. But things are as they are. Are you guys big Emmy people? What do you think it fits in in terms of the awards?
For me, it's probably like slightly after the Dally M and Brown lows, but before the Logies. Like writing. That's right in that sweet spot where it doesn't take it tells too seriously, but it's not quite, you know, as strange as the Logies can be. Yeah. The Emmys, I think is like a funny one. Like if I was to think of off the top of my head, like, What's my favorite Emmys moment? Like nothing comes to mind. Whereas like, you know, Oscars and Globes have those kind
of moments we've all seen and loved. So yeah, but I always watch it.
Yeah, they all do kind of blur into each other, particularly I found during the Covid years when they were all a bit odd and not very fun. But I do quite like the Emmys. I think I like the Golden Globes best because I like that they're always secondary in in status and prestige to the Academy Awards. So there always seems to be an unhinged, unhinged going. That's not a word, but there always seems to be some
level of kind of craziness at the Golden Globes. I don't think you get it at the Academy Awards, which are a bit more stuffy. And then, yeah, the Emmys, I feel, don't really have a distinct style. I quite like the Grammys, though, or the performances, and the pop stars are always a bit wild. And the actors.
Yeah, the Emmys ceremony seems to be one of the most boring out of all the kind of big entertainment ones. But I think it's become more interesting in the last few years when we've had this explosion of prestige TV, and we are really interested in seeing actually interesting actors and see who will win those big awards. I feel like when I was growing up, the Emmys were like 20 years in a row. It's the same. It's like Frasier and then it's friends, and then, you know, then
it's the Big Bang Theory. It's just like those network comedies and dramas that ran on and on. Whereas now it's a bit like the White Lotus versus succession. Like, I am curious to see who wins in those sorts of battles.
Do you think if you're an actor in Hollywood, you still like, I feel like the Globes still have a bit more prestige. Like if you're if you're a TV actor, you want to win the Golden Globe over the Emmy.
I think I wonder whether that changed in the last couple of years with the whole furore around the Globes being basically like a crooked organization. And when Tom Cruise hands back his Golden Globe, really what is the what is the value of the globe? Yeah.
Tom Cruise famously of perfect character.
So that's your mate. You have a photo with him, right?
No. Yeah. This week. I don't like Tom Cruise last week. I love Tom Cruise.
I mean, I actually heard a little a little bit of Goss on that. So Tom Cruise famously when the Golden Globes, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, which sadly no longer exists, was was under this cloud for how they ran that operation. And Tom Cruise said very famous he was going to return his Golden Globe. I heard from a Hollywood insider, in fact, a couple of Hollywood insiders
that he never physically returned his Golden Globe. And it's not clear whether or not it's because he wanted to hold on to it or maybe he just lost it. But there was no transfer of the globe from Tom Cruise back to the awards.
That is the kind of hard hitting journalism we needed on the red carpet with Tom Cruise, that is Woodward and Bernstein. You you ask him some kind of light question about what film he wants to watch. What do you want me to be like?
So, like, where is Miscavige, his wife? Like.
Where's the Globe? Tom Yeah. I do think, though I enjoy the Emmys a bit more too, because by the time when the Oscars are on, Australia hasn't actually seen heaps of the films that are winning the Oscars. And sometimes we don't get them until much later in the year. So I feel a bit left out when the Oscars are on. But the Emmys, we've we've got access to pretty much all of these TV shows now by the
time they're on. So I do feel like it's a bit more relevant in some ways to us here as well, because we can go and watch what wins or we've already seen what the shows that they're talking about on it.
Well, it's funny you should say that, Mel, because that brings us to the main topic of conversation for today's episode. We will return to the Emmys. We're going to share some of our predictions later on in this episode. But the main thing we're talking about today is the bear. And this has been a really annoying show to program around.
Our group chat has basically just been Thomas and I having a meltdown about when we should talk about the bear, how many episodes we should devote to it, how long it should go on for, whether we should do one Bear episode, whether we should do ten bear episodes. But partly why it has been and not partly in fact, the entire reason why this has been so challenging is because this show, all ten episodes of the second season, dropped in the US now a couple of weeks ago,
but they still aren't being released in Australia until next week. Anecdotally, a lot of Australian Bear fans I know have found ways to watch this show anyway because they don't want to. Be a month behind the conversation. This is all a bit dumb, isn't it, Thomas?
Yeah. So stupid, like for such a buzzed about show and to force people to wait an extra month like. And even as someone like, you know, we get the screeners and stuff but not that far in advance so I've been like having to avoid so many spoilers and like so much stuff because it is that type of show where like content gets pumped out about it, like from just, you know, storylines to weird things about the show.
So it's like it feels like a weird throwback to Game of Thrones days up, consciously avoiding headlines to not have the show spoiled for me. And yeah, and we've talked about it before. We kind of hammered Disney to be like, why exactly is this happening? Like especially, you know, the first season we got six months later. So that was almost better because like, it was so far out of sight that you didn't think about Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You saw the hype cycle, you got over it, you moved on and then it was a nice little surprise.
Yeah. Whereas this, like, you know, it was like we're a month out, so it's just, it's enough time to get, like, everyone's takes and see it all and then have to kind of go into the show. But Disney were just very much like, Oh, we don't comment and release date, so we don't really know exactly what the reason is.
But yeah, it's been very annoying and I know that lots of fans of the show have either done what you said, found a way to watch it, or just had to kind of like furiously avoid having the show ruined.
Yeah, it's so hot because we, we often talk about how much we like a cultural moment. And Barbie has obviously been one of those. And part of the joy of that film is being part of the global conversations that are going on with Barbie. And it really is has been a global conversation with the tour, the controversies, the stories popping out of different places with different angles.
And it is a bit of a shame to miss that being part of that with the bear being in dialogue with all these other kind of takes on it.
Yeah, and the thing about spoilers is really apt because the way that we consume culture now is like passive, right? Like things come across your feed more than you going out to look for them. I've been listening to a bunch of, as I always do, like culture podcasts from the US and they'll be talking about TV and then they'll be like. And coming up next, like our interview with Christopher Storer, the creator of The Bear on Season two. I'm like, Oh, that's cancel, cancel, cancel. I don't want
to hear anything. And even this morning I was listening to a completely sort of unrelated podcast where they just sort of said, Oh, by the way, and this is spoilers for the second season of The Bear. And I'm like, Oh, well, come on, why do I feel like I'm living in the past? On a even much more anodyne level, there's been all these viral stories from from different outlets about this sweater that Carmy wears, and it's like, Why the bear sweater went viral? I'm like, I haven't even seen
the sweater. And you're telling me it's going viral? This is outrageous.
I know. It's so annoying. I feel so left out. Like, I want to know about the sweater, but I don't want to like, I don't want to read about it yet. I want to just watch it.
Also, Thomas has been like this morning, he was just telling me how he was the first to do the bear aesthetic, that he's like he's he's wearing a white shirt. He's got his tats out and black jeans, kind of work pants. And now you might be behind. You might be going around saying you have the bear aesthetic. But he could have completely changed his look.
Well, actually, you know, I was commies become famous for his white shirt. He's very he's an attractive man. And we do have similar tattoos, I suppose. But I was I've been rocking the white shirt for ages, but now it's become so associated with calming people like, Oh man, that's that clammy commie kind of aesthetic. Yeah, well.
What a try hard trying to look like commie. You also look like since you had a baby and since you started fastening you, you look very disheveled. So you've got that element as well.
I've been in the kitchen all night, just like. Yeah. Corner. Yes, chef.
Let's talk a bit about why this show is so highly anticipated. We've mentioned this before on the on the pod, Thomas and I think we actually spoke about it last year. We aired your interview with Jeremy Ellen White, who plays Comey last year. But I'm really interested to hear your analysis, I guess, on why this show that kind of came out of nowhere seemed to be a cultural phenomenon to the extent where it was the most anticipated in the US this year and has seemed to deliver it for
those who have seen the show. What is it about the bear that made it so good?
Yeah, I think it was a little bit of a surprise, but I think I think it was for a couple of reasons. Like it kind of entered the TV landscape after, you know, a few years of everyone feeling maybe like we'd been kind of collectively beaten down, like, you know, it was kind of post-pandemic. We'd had everything kind of crushed out of us. It wasn't an optimistic time. And I think the bear kind of harnessed that energy. And the show is definitely not what you would call an
optimistic show, even though it has its uplifting moments. But there was something almost wholesome about watching this team of people, team of kind of screw ups, I suppose, trying to do something good, like for the greater good. They're very much a team and I think people connected with that and and especially with Carmy, you know, he's this like talented, vulnerable, you know, flawed guy and he's just trying to maybe do the right thing for his family and by the
people who he loves. And that, I think is was a big part of the appeal. And then like running parallel to that, this show is, you know, almost like from the Uncut Gems School of Anxiety. It's an anxious show. And, you know, Jeremy, Alan White and I spoke about this last year. You know, a lot of people were feeling very anxious over the last couple of years. And again, the bear tapped into that and it kind of like
reflected ourselves back on screen. And we saw a lot of our own fears and anxieties and worries, you know, like they're trying to pay the bills. They're trying to figure out if they'll be around next week and they're trying to figure out what makes them happy and what is being satisfied. And am I doing this every day because I'm just in this loop, or is it what I want to do? And I think, you know, they're kind of like broad, large scale issues, but the bear
really tackled a lot of those. So yeah, I think in, you know, it shows this environment of a restaurant, but it really took a lot of the big picture things that we were all thinking about and kind of played them back to us.
And I like the aesthetic of it too. Like it doesn't have the gloss of a lot of what we're seeing on TV at the moment. Like when you think of beef on Netflix or succession on Binge, all great shows, but it kind of has this really interesting aesthetic and vibe to it and tone that I think we haven't seen as much of on TV lately.
Yeah, I think Thomas and I have seen the the first few episodes of the second season. We're going to talk about it a little bit, but not spoil it. I think what you just articulated then both of you guys, as to the two different pieces of the show that come together really well, I think the second season does an even better job at like on one hand, it is kind of like just a workplace drama comedy. You've
got this great cast of characters. Who all a pretty fully realized and really interesting and have their own like that show did such a great job of helping me understand what motivated every single character. From Carmy to Sydney to the pastry chef to Ibrahim, who's just sort of like a line cook. And you get even more of that in the second season. But alongside that screwball, almost office esque comedy stuff, you have a problem solving show, which is like, we have a challenge and in the
first season it's let's make this kitchen work. In the second season, they kind of blow the whole place up and the plot is basically around turning the original beef of Chicagoland into a fine dining restaurant. And that is really fun to watch because you see them on this mission, try to create something, build something. And when it comes to food in particular, and like food on TV and in film, I just don't think we've seen it done
that well that often. Like Anthony Bourdain famously said, that Ratatouille was the best representation of like cooking culture on screen. And I love Ratatouille and I'm not like taking shots at it. But I think it is significant that the animated movie about a rat is like what Bourdain reckons was the best attempt to do cooking on TV. Did you guys think that that is a factor here like that? This show just took fine dining and made it so watchable.
Firstly, it was about a chef, wasn't it? Yeah, I agree. Also with Chef's Table and the kind of proliferation of shows like that, we have seen I think a lot on TV, a very glossy look at dining and I think the bear kind of showed a different angle to food that we hadn't seen as much of. I'm going to make a public service announcement, though, because I actually fell a bit behind from the bear and I caused quite a scene. I've made a real fool of myself
with Disney. You know how we were hanging out for six months for the bear, finally dropped, went home, turned on Disney. It was not on the screen. Do you remember me messaging you? I was like, Is your bear on your Disney? Wasn't there? I was like, Oh my God, this is a news story. They've announced this date. It's not on Disney's cooked it. So I called Disney and I'm like, The bear's not on TV.
It's called Bob Iger. Hey, Bob, just.
Hey, Walt.
We've got an issue here. And they were like, No, it's definitely on TV. I'm like, messaging everyone. They're like, It's on mine, too.
So you called them. It's like 730 at night. You're in your lounge room. You're like Disney. I'm trying to watch the show. Where is it.
Mate?
I thought it was a new story. I thought I was I was on it. I'm like, this is this.
Is like a type of phone call I received from my.
Mum. She's like.
This is the chops you needed with Tom Cruise. Yeah. So I called Disney. They were like, It's definitely on there. All my friends had it on there. I was like, This is cooked. I continued my campaign with Disney about why it wasn't on there. It went on deep dive and read it, and then like a week later I found out I apparently had child friendly settings on Disney. So for my entire Disney watching experience, I had not had like adult films.
So you weren't allowed the heat of the bed? Yeah, Yeah.
So, yeah, if it's not appearing, that's why.
Yes. Well, I feel like your Disney privileges should be revoked because of that.
Yeah.
No, I was just watching, like, ratatouille on repeat.
Great movie. And yes, great, great representations of chefs on screen. But yeah, I think the Bear did do a lot of that. And you know, that was a big part of the conversation. Like, you know, it's like people kind of really got into carmy the bad boy, like fucked up chef and he's smoking and he's so sexy and he doesn't love anyone. That's why I need to love him. Oh, my God. But. But, like, Carmy is kind of, like, meant to be an interrogation of that bad boy chef trope,
you know, like, he's. He's not the type of person, like, we root for him. But I think people kind of got confused there because we've always been so obsessed with like the bad boy chef, you know, like Bourdain, Marco Pierre White, like these guys that we love. And they seem, you know, like, so dangerous and stuff. So it's funny
that we do still really love that idea. And that trope, but I feel like the show is not presenting that to us, but it's just like what we're as an audience, like we're wanting it to be.
Yeah, there was a lot of discourse around this thing where people were like, Oh, I love Carmy. He's so cool and hot and like, great. And it's like, Well, I think the show is deliberately trying to say that, like, that might be a trope that you have been trained to think like this kind of confident white male chef in a kitchen full of like people of color and women older and younger than him who he's a bit
dismissive towards. And then eventually, as the show progresses, you see him realize that he needs to like change what he's been trained in, that sort of French, very hierarchical cooking aesthetic. And I think that tension is still sort of playing out right. Like Sydney, played by the wonderful Ayo Atterbury in the second season, is much more of like a partner with Carmy, but he still has that sense of superiority because of who he thinks he is and.
What he's entitled to, and she's coming from the complete opposite place of being so insecure and unsure of herself. And I think the show is really good at just letting that tension play out without shoving it in your face. It's quite subtle and it's just there to be seen. There's no big speeches about like, you know, well, you're, you're this arrogant, like, white cook and that's why you don't belong that kind of thing. You just see it happen as these characters discover things on their own.
Yeah, for sure. I've only seen the first three, but you really get a sense of that. And yeah, like you said, it is. It's also really nice to see a show where all this is very much, you know, Jeremy Alan White is the star of the show and the face of the show and the very impressive arms of the show, I must say.
But the arms are ridiculous.
Oh, man, it's a joke. Like last night, like we watched the first three last night. My wife was like, I don't like the show. It's too stressful. I was like, Shut up. I'm watching it. And she was like, God, he's so fucking hot, though. Like, is that right? Well, just like, make your mind.
Have you seen what I'm wearing? Like, I.
Was like, that's actually my.
Aesthetic. Yeah.
So bit of Jonah Hill slipping out there just telling you wife to shut up while you're on the couch.
Watching the show.
I was like, Can you please.
Take.
That bikini off? Winter?
Respect my boundaries. Do you think you'd be a good chef?
I actually think I would be a pretty good chef. I worked in a restaurant. Like when? What kind of restaurant? An Italian restaurant. And the chef actually weirdly kind of similar story. The chef was really talented, chef. And he came back from London working in, like, fine dining to start a restaurant in like, the suburbs because his brother was like a bit of a fuck up and his mom was like, You need to come and start a restaurant so he can have a job.
So we need to get this really good.
Seriously.
This is your story and I loved it. And then obviously.
Did you cook.
Or. No, no, I was away.
That I was away. Yeah. And obviously Osman is in the restaurant game, so he gets it.
Well, I mean, this is this is one of the things about this season that I found quite stressful because it is about a group of people gutting a restaurant and trying to build something on a budget and do something new and exciting. And it is like a little bit triggering, frankly, the process that I went through a couple of years ago. But can I ask you something, though?
Like one of the things I found the most interesting and this is not really a spoiler, but yeah, the premise of season two is that they're starting this new restaurant like the the logistics and the paperwork and the permits. Like, is that all a real thing?
Yeah, it's really it's really complicated. I mean, we had a particular challenge because we were trying to like open in the midst of Melbourne's lockdowns, sort of wrapping up. So there was all this extra like bureaucracy and complexity around like you can open for takeaway, but we actually can't send a council inspector there because it's technically lockdown. And so we can't open until your licence, but we can't give you a licence until things can get reopened again.
I don't know enough about the specifics of like Chicago food licensing, but I think the one of the most complicated things I've learnt about the food business is health and safety, food permits, food safety, liquor licensing, all that sort of stuff. And it is a real challenge, I think.
Like I have my own experience in the hospital business as we're talking about, but I feel like what is so interesting about this show is you talk to people who've who've run businesses, who've built businesses, who've worked as chefs, who's worked in front of house. Almost everyone says that nothing has done a better job of representing hospital culture like this show. And I think Christopher Storer, the showrunner, his sister Courtney Sara, has worked in a bunch of restaurants.
She's a consultant, Maddy Mathieson, who's who's on the show. He is a well known chef. Dave Chang I think if not being a formal consultant is at least very good friends with Chris Storer. So he has a really great insight into what contemporary food culture is like. And I think what makes the second season even more interesting is that it is about the business side of building a fine dining establishment in a very specific post-COVID America.
And that is a really big conversation in the food industry, in the States and in Australia. Is what is food culture going to be in this world where rents are really high, labor costs are high. It's a risk. People don't want to go out as much. The economy is not doing that well. Are we facing the barrel of a world where only very, very rich groups and conglomerates can create a good hospitality scene? Or can an independent business run by someone like Kami or by us.
See, in this.
Crazy modern world, I think that's that's a that's another dynamic to the show that I find really interesting. Thomas What else do people have to look forward to in this season without kind of giving too much away?
Well, I guess off the back of a very successful first season and a very buzzed about period between seasons, basically everyone in Hollywood was like, Yo, I want to be on the bear. So the guest cast for season two is stacked. So you've got Will Poulter popping up as a pastry chef who kind of shows Marcus the ropes. We've got everyone's favorite from Better Call Saul, Bob Odenkirk You've got Jamie Lee Curtis. And this one is not really a spoiler because it's been everywhere. Jamie Lee Curtis
playing Comey's mother. John Mulaney, Sarah Paulson, Gillian Jacobs, Oscar winner Olivia Colman and Joel McHale from Community Returns. He was in season one, kind of like as a as a flashback of calm. He's very intense.
It was so good playing that sort of evil chef.
Yeah, so good. And one of the kind of bigger guest stars is Molly Gordon from Booksmart, who plays a semi love interest. So, like, it's amazing, you know, and it's so funny because I can fully see it, especially the the vibe of a lot of those guest stars. You can tell they would have all been into the first series and they've obviously just like started banging down the door of Christmas or being like, Please find me a slot to be on the bed.
How do you feel this will compare to kind of the hype and the discussion that surrounded succession? Because I know a lot of people have spoken about the bear being the next big thing that everyone's looking forward to after succession, but do you think it will in Australia quite generate the levels of engagement that succession did? Well, you.
Know what one of the weird things is about this show is that it drops all at once.
Which is unusual.
For a non Netflix show. It's unusual for a Disney show. It's unusual for like most shows now, which are trending away from the binge model. And I feel like this show could really benefit from like a weekly drop. It would build so much anticipation. You could spend every week talking like we.
Were actually could.
Could do that.
Yeah, Yeah. With the three of us could have gotten two and a half months of content out of it. What do you.
Think, Thomas? It's.
It's so annoying. Like, the binge model is dead unless you work at Netflix who are, like, wedded to it because it's their brand. But it's just, it's so annoying like. Especially what I would have done if I was running Disney and Mel was calling me at night to figure out why she couldn't watch anything I would have done. Like because I watched the first three last night. And I do feel like it was good to watch three in a row to get back in, but like three in a row. And then, you know, one a week
for the next seven weeks. And everyone I've spoken to, like in the media world who has watched the show has been like, you know, like loved it, but so annoying that it's all coming out at once because inevitably you do feel like you'll just watch it maybe over like a week or something.
Or your friends will be at a different level to where you are. So it's like, Oh, have you seen that bit yet? I don't really want to give it away. It just makes it really hard to enjoy it collectively. Yeah.
And like, I mean, I guess the episodes are short. There are only 28, 29 minutes, so it's different to succession in that that was so packed and an extra 15 minutes longer or more as we got at the end of the season. But and sometimes it can feel funny doing a weekly drop with a half hour show. It feels like it's like over really quick. But then, I don't know, do two a week, do something else. Like I just think having all of them come out at once, it's it's frustrating.
Also, as we know, next week is a big viewing week. We're spoilt for choice with Barbie Oppenheimer and the barrel dropping. I mean it would have been nice if they could have kind of.
Spread it out. Exactly.
You couldn't think of a way to cook this release more in this country then they have.
Al dente Disney.
We'll be back to cover this series in more detail once it is finally out and everyone else can watch it. But for now, let's. Let's return to our Emmy conversation. By the time you're listening to this, nominations will have been announced. So it's potentially risky and stupid to to do predictions of what will be nominated. So I thought what we could do instead is run through there's a
website called Gold Derby. It is very good at predicting nominations for things like the Oscars, the Grammys and the Emmys. And I think looking at what they've got on their list, it seems pretty safe. It's just a good opportunity to talk about what is likely to be nominated. And we can talk about who we think is probably going to win as well, if that makes sense to you guys. Should we should we give that a bit of a run through?
Yeah, let's do it. We are risky people.
So the way the Emmys generally work for TV, they split things up into comedy and drama and have best comedy series, best drama and best actor and actress in each of those. So for best comedy, the most likely nominees, according to Gold Derby are Ted Lasso, Abbott Elementary, The Bear only murders in the building, Barry The Marvelous Mrs.
Maisel Poker Face and Shrinking. And my immediate reaction to that is that's like a lot of great television that is so much more exciting than the days of the Big Bang Theory versus young Sheldon.
Apart from Ted Lasso, which hasn't been funny since its first season.
But also, I mean, I know this is not what the point of this segment is, but my immediate reaction is like, Oh, this is the problem with the Emmys. Like The Bear is not really a comedy. And to be in the same category as I mean, even Ted Lasso, which is more traditionally or Abbott Elementary, definitely more traditional comedies. Yeah, I'd.
Say Poker Face is not really a comedy either. The Natasha Leone sort of murder mystery series, it seems to be. I was listening to some other smart podcasters talk about this that traditionally if things were half an hour, there were comedy and if there were like 50 minute things, they were dramas. But that doesn't really make sense at all in this era. There's a lot of category fraud that I think goes on with these awards as well, where producers and distributors are like looking for where they
think they might have the most success. And I think no one wants to be in drama.
Yeah, we'll avoid succession in the drama category. And so like, yeah, the bear's hilarious as he's like sitting in fucking AA breaking our hearts.
And like Jeremy Alan White, He said he's nominated for best comedy actor and is tipped as the favorite to win. And you feel like he's got a good chance because he is so good in the show. But you think if he was in drama up against Kieran Culkin and the succession cast, he would probably miss out. So maybe it's a good strategy there.
But anyway, my personal pick, I think everyone hated the final season of Ted Lasso so much. I think Abbott Elementary will take that out. Actually. I think they might pip the bear. Abbott Elementary hasn't. It's not as like widespread over here, like it's the appreciation for it, but it's very, very funny and Quinta Brunson amazing, you know so I think that will win.
I want to go for Barry because I thought the final season was sensational and that whole show has been sensational. So I'd like I'd like to see Barry get a bit of the limelight.
I agree. Barry is probably my favorite in that list. So I think Thomas is right that Abbott Elementary will win. It's just so popular and so wholesome. And Quinta Brunson is tipped for best comedy actress. Barry is another weird one. I mean, like the last season of Barry, like 400 people get shot to death. It is a really grim and violent and dark show to be in the comedy. I like Bill Hader as a comedian. He's funny, but I feel like if you asked him about Barry, he
wouldn't be like, This is my comedy masterpiece. This is his like, dark interrogation of Hollywood in the American psyche.
Yeah, definitely. I think they need to do a review into the genres. I'm going to yeah, I think I think that's what needs to happen here is it called him.
Up call up you made to Disney to.
Speak to get.
The hook up.
When we talk about drama the main question really is just like will anyone but succession win any category in this? Like the best drama series is pretty interesting. Such succession. The White Lotus, The Last of Us Better Call Saul the Crown Snooze Yellowjackets, House of the Dragon and Andor. That's a lot of like really big shows. But I think we would all agree that succession is just going to completely wipe the bullet.
Yeah, you would think so, though. The White Lotus would stand a fighting chance. And again, that's one that could also kind of fit in the comedy series that is between categories.
Yeah, totally.
That's more of a comedy than the Bear.
Yeah, definitely Seeing House of the Dragon on there. That was a show I was. I'm very glad that I had forgotten until now.
Like I forgot that.
Was definitely a.
Show so bad.
Man. This is like not even a this is a fucking no brainer. If succession doesn't win, I will get Ewan's eulogy like tattooed on my back. This is like in the bag. And aside from the fact that the Emmys are obsessed with rewarding shows for their final season, no matter how good the final season may be. And then on top of that, succession was obviously amazing. Yeah. This one is is in the bag, really. The question is and we spoke about this a lot during the season.
Because there were so many like award baiting moments from, you know, especially the siblings and succession, basically, it's going to be like. Kendall versus Roman once more. Jeremy Strong versus Kieran. Totally. Me versus Mel.
I mean, yeah. So for for the actress category, I think Sarah Snook is a lock for winning best drama actress in that. But yeah, the actor category, Jeremy Strong versus Kieran Culkin, I, I feel like Kieran could get the win on this. I feel like he just really went for it in that season. I feel like the Jeremy Strong Hive peaked Season two, Season three, and I think there's a chance now and I hope it is. I mean, we should also say Brian Cox is also in this category.
It would be the most.
Logan thing if he won.
If he won.
In the end after dying a few episodes in.
Yeah, I, I kind of I agree. I think Kieran will probably win, but I think Jeremy Strong might deserve to win but because we had seen shocking. No wait this is a role reversal I think because we have seen Jeremy Strong go to those depths of acting in his character before, whereas Kieran was more of a kind of stand out star in this season. Kieran might might take the cake.
Yeah, I kind of think so too. Like Jeremy Strong won in 2020, I think. And I do think there is always a bit of like, Oh, he's got one, so we'll make sure we spread the love. I think for the first half of the final season, I was like, okay, Kieran Culkin is, you know, this is his season. I think Jeremy Strong finished, stronger. And and the longer it went on, I do think there was like a bit of a feel of like Kieran Culkin having his moments, whereas Jeremy Strong, I forgot he was an actor, which
I think a lot of people do. He's just so amazing. I do think maybe he does deserve it a bit more, but I think Kieran Culkin will win. And I also think on that entire list, Kieran Culkin would give the best acceptance speech.
Yeah, that's a good if. It's like his funeral speech is anything to go by. I'm kind of sad to not to see Tom on there.
He's best supporting.
Oh, he gets to be.
So in best supporting actor for drama. This could be like a four way contest between Matthew Macfadyen, Alan Ruck, Nicholas Braun and Alexander Skarsgard. And I honestly would be happy to see any of those guys win. I think like, as you guys know, I was obsessed with Skarsgard in this season. I think it would be amazing for him to just come in and win an Emmy off the back of that as well.
Yeah, just like rocked up in a hoodie and those like Kanye slides.
Yeah.
The a couple of other categories I wanted to run through. One of them is probably the White Lotus best chance to pick up an Emmy. I mean, we we all enjoyed the season, but succession, I think, will just dominate. But Jennifer Coolidge is tipped to probably be the favorite in best supporting actress. That feels right to me in terms of where she's at.
Yeah, I'd definitely back that. But I could also see Aubrey Plaza and Megan Fahey kind of very comfortably take that. Did you guys have a favorite from the show? Because I think Megan Fahey, in terms of the range that she had to show in in White Lotus was pretty impressive.
Yeah, I mean, it'd be interesting, like Jennifer Coolidge is obviously like she's having a moment a year. She won this category last year, so that would be her going back to back which I always.
A little Emmy historian.
Yeah. Well, you know, I do love TV. No, I think Jennifer Coolidge going back to back is a big chance. But I do think there is sometimes a hesitation to to reward that. I actually don't. And again, this is like unpopular opinion. I she was probably one of my least favorite characters on the White Lotus and I don't really think Jennifer Coolidge is great, but I don't think she was like stretching herself in that series. So in terms of actual merit, I don't know if she is
perhaps the most deserving. I think anyone who watched Better Call Saul would say Ray Seehorn is, you know, like her performance in that final season was incredible. And I also think like if if it were up to me and again, it's not, sadly, I'd probably give it to Aubrey Plaza.
Yeah, I think you're right with Jennifer Coolidge. She kind of has a bit that her character stuck to where the others, I think, had a harder role in portraying certain ambiguities in their roles. Elizabeth Debicki in The Crown was pretty impressive. Like, I feel like the latest season, everyone, I don't know, it kind of got lost. Yeah, see?
Yeah, the crown is boring. But the one thing that it did have going for it was debicki like, I love Dickie. She's incredible. She's great in everything. Obviously she's Australian. That's not the reason I love her. I'm not like that patriotic, to be honest. Most people who know me know that.
But she loved the crown.
She. She was really good.
And I love Princess Diana. You didn't even you didn't like Paul Kelly.
That is slander. That is slander. One of us on this podcast has spent an hour crying with Paul Kelly on another podcast talking about Christmas and family and love. Thomas So watch yourself.
And the Gravy.
The other category that I thought would be interesting to just mention is Best Limited series, which I think is also got a bunch of great nominations in there. Daisy Jones in the sixth Fleishman is in Trouble, which we all really, really liked. Blackbird Monster, The Jeffrey Dahmer Story. But beef is likely going to be in the mix. I think that would be a pretty deserved win. That show just seemed to, again, kind of like the bear come out of nowhere and just blow everyone's minds.
Yeah, it'd be such a shame if monster like gets up there because it was so popular. It's like probably the worst show on that list.
Yeah, I think beef is the well deserving of that. Or Fleishman is in trouble, which again, kind of flew a little under the radar. I think.
Much attention.
Dropped in like November, December at the end of the year when people had maxed out and stuff. But some really good performances in there and yeah, definitely.
Ruined my life over that period.
Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty grim if you're an aging millennial. Yeah.
I enjoyed Daisy Jones in the Sex, the music, and it was great. But I don't it didn't I don't think it's a show that will stick with me really good watch maybe a good sick day watch like and just like that. But yeah not life changing.
Yeah let's let's leave the Amish out there. I mean, at the very least, that's a long list of shows to catch up on. If you haven't seen them in the in the next couple of weeks before the Emmys actually happen to round up today's EP. Thought it would be nice to hear from you guys what you're watching what you've been watching, what you recommend. I know, Thomas, you've been you've been diving deep into the history of a of a Greek kind of comrade of yours.
Yes.
It's not it's not former finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. Who who who is it? And what is this show?
Well, as you know, I get like an email alert every time a Greek anyone any any second or third generation Greg does something. No. So I saw on Netflix the WAM documentary had dropped. And you know I'm not really a big wham guy. Like obviously I'm aware of them, but I didn't very much of the backstory. Love George Michael or Yoda as he was born.
Well.
And I know that you also watched over the weekend, but it was it was actually like a really well made documentary. And it tells like an unusual story, I think, in music. Like, I think if we normally see a music documentary, you expect there to be like this spectacular rise. And then quite a dramatic fall. But the story of Wham of George Michael and Andrew Ridgeley is that they basically like two best friends from like when they were 11 and they become this incredibly successful act. They sold
like 30 million records between 1982 and 1996. You know, everyone knows their songs. And then they kind of had this really beautiful end to the career. And then George Michael, you know, throughout the Wham story, had, you know, evolved as this very talented artist. And at the end of their time together, he went on to become one of the world's most successful solo artists. And, you know, they use lots of archival footage and it's also a great
snapshot of the 80s and stuff. I just thought it was quite a beautiful documentary and good.
To see yourself reflected.
Yeah, exactly. And yeah, well, I mean, he literally had to change his name because people were like. Panagiotis I don't think so. And you know, my real last name isn't Mitchell, but that's for a different pod.
Yeah. This was by the director of Tiger King and Fire. I was same as you. I loved it. Didn't know much about Wham, but loved the story of these two men and their changing dynamic from when they were kids, where the power dynamic was very different to when they became famous and George Michael really came to the the fore. I thought Andrew Ridgeley was kind of what a saint. Just wanted the best for George. Michael wanted him to
go and flourish. I kept expecting their band to kind of blow up in the way, I don't know, like you see other other bands at towards their end. But no, maybe the show is glossing over it a bit, but it does show this kind of real love between them that one of them isn't jealous about the other one becoming this star.
Yeah, it's basically like I think I saw it in the documentary. It's like, what happens if you made it to the top of the world with your best friend? It's like the ultimate dream, isn't it?
It's what we're all doing now.
Yeah, that's what we're aiming for. You guys got a favorite Wham song.
I mean, wake me up before you Go. Go. It's such a great song. And I don't know if you know the story of this, but the way they came up with the name of that Andrew Ridgeley left George Michael a note. He was going out for the morning and he accidentally wrote up twice in the note. So then he wrote Go, go twice, just to evening out. So like, wake me up, up before you go, go. And then George Michael woke up. So he's like, That would be like a great name for a song. There you go.
Before you go, go.
Great, great story for a great song.
And I do enjoy Careless Whispers as well, which was actually released as a George Michael single, even though they created it together as Wham. But yeah, I think that that's a real banger, really. It was just like listening to Smooth FM for an.
Evening, but that.
Was a crazy story too. You can cut this if it's boring, but I'll tell it anyway. Like Careless Whisper was like going to be their big hit and they sent George Michael off to like, I was in Nashville to record it with Jerry Wexler, this like really famous producer and who had worked with like Aretha Franklin and everyone. And he came back and this kind of spoke to George Michael's like he had this he was like really talented but really insecure. And he came back, got the
mix from Jerry Wexler and was like, this isn't it? Like, this just doesn't feel like the song. But, you know, this is like the world's most sought after producer, like I should use it. And then eventually he follows his gut, doesn't do it, produces it himself, and it becomes one of the biggest songs of all time. So yeah, it's also a story about believing in your own talent, which is something you could both take note of.
Why do you think we don't believe in it enough?
I mean, Osbourne is probably fine.
Thomas doesn't think we believe in his talent enough. He wants us to play more of an Andrew Ridgeley.
Role to his days. Just let me go now. It's rising Star.
Uh, Mel, you have finally caught up on one of my favorite shows from the last couple of years, Dave.
Oh, it's so good. So I had been following the seasons, fell a bit behind in this latest season. I was mentioned in an earlier podcast when we were talking about the Met Gala and in Just Like that, but I finally watched the final episode and it is one of the best final episodes of a season I have seen on TV in some time. And I don't even really want to tell you why it's so good because it's so unexpected that you kind of just need to watch it.
But it's got some amazing cameos. It's very well written. It's hilarious. The show is. I understand why it's not been maybe a huge hit because it's probably not to everyone's taste because there is quite a it's quite dark comedy writers. But yeah, I think the payoff at the end with that final episode was so good, so worth worth getting into it.
Yeah, it's a really interesting show because you're supposed to think it's like an insight into this character, right? The guy's name is Dave. It's a show about him. It's sort of true to life biographical in a lot of ways. But I think what makes the show so good is that he's aware that his character is terrible, like a piece of shit and terrible and selfish to the people around him. And it doesn't like hide or shy away from that. And I think it would be so easy
to just like lean into the ego. And it has a lot of that too. And it's a lot of like, you know, wish fulfillment and hanging out with celebs. But I think it doesn't seem to be scared to like explore how becoming very famous very quickly can turn you into a terrible person. And so it becomes quite a good meditation on that, as well as being a fun show about a rapper traveling America.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever been told to watch a show more than I've been told to watch. Dave And it's almost become a thing now where I'm like, not watching it out of spite. But I, I mean, look, I'm going to make commitment. I'll watch it and I'll start it in the next month because I feel like inevitably I'm going to turn around and be like, Fuck guys. Dave is.
Amazing. Yeah. Have you guys seen It's true that.
You are the most like target audience for this show out of anyone I know in the world.
It's weed and you probably need to watch it so you can reflect on what that says about you.
I have two shows to mention. The first one is actually an apology from me a few weeks ago when we did our like What's coming up that we're excited about. I mentioned a show called Secret Invasion that was coming on Disney Plus. And I said, look, Marvel's been in a flop era, but I do like the team behind this. I like Mendo. This could be pretty fun. It is the biggest piece of shit I've seen in a long time. This is this is a terrible, terrible show that should
not have been made. I don't know why it was made similar. Jackson looks like he wants to kill himself in the show. Ben Mendelsohn Like the one thing going for him is that he's allowed to do his Australian accent for the first time in like a big international thing. So he's pretty fun just to hear him say mate and bloody hell a lot. But this show has no reason to exist. It just speaks to the deep, deep, deep decline of what is left of Marvel and superhero stuff.
So me, a couple for me. I'm sorry, everyone, do you.
Want Mel to kind of get on the blower to Disney and.
Just sort that.
Out, get it taken? It'll be down by this afternoon. One phone call.
Is Secret Invasion out on Disney Plus. And the bear is not. It is completely.
Outrageous. Yeah, well, consider it sorted.
We appreciate you owning up to that to that arrows but.
To to make up for that the show that I have been watching that I do think is good because I've seen it now I think you Thomas you're across it as well is hijack on Apple TV.
You have been talking about.
This is still hijacking hope no.
Hijacking.
Tactic. No hijack is so good I thought it was going to be so shit. It's got a bad title. It looks like a kind of forgettable mid-year Netflix show. Everyone I've told now is obsessed with it. It's one of those ones. I'm like, Fuck, I wish there was more episodes out.
Yeah, I've got to. I've got to give a shout out to our our colleague Anya Ryan, who put me onto the show. She said, It's really good. The basic premise is it's a plane that gets hijacked. So they called it hijack. Great stuff. And it's it's like it's sort of like filmed in real time, like set in real time, that an hour in the show is an hour. On this plane, Idris Elba plays this kind of corporate negotiator who's on the plane and he's trying to stop
the hijackers from killing people. We don't really know what their motivation is, but it's something pretty big and sinister. It is just really gripping. And like you said, Thomas, when I saw it come up, I'm like, oh, this looks like classic kind of like low grade trash. But it is really fun. And I think Idris makes it good. Like the rest of the cast are fine. There's a couple of really good and interesting characters, but it's really the Idris Elba affair and it is really fun to watch.
So Strong recommend for me.
Yeah, I agree.
All right. You're talking me into it. I have been reluctant and resistant to watch it.
If there's one actual thing, I will say that there's a bit of a knock on the hijack. It is like a bit too chill for a plane hijacking drama. It's like everyone is very it's very quiet. A lot of it is shot in like the first class and business class cabins of the plane. And people look like they're having like a pretty good time on the plane, which I'm just not sure what happened in a real kind of hijacking. But it's.
Still fun. It's good like I haven't really. Flown first in business. So it's nice to see it up there. But Osman, it's obviously familiar for you.
Yeah, I'd quite like it looks like a while.
I'm in.
It looks like a fine.
Looks like you've want my review on it. Like this is a fictional airline, Kingdom Airline. I think it's supposed to be like a middle Eastern airline. The business looks fine. I've got to say, the doesn't look not the best. Not the best I've seen, but not bad. Not bad.
I was been Fergie.
Man of the people.
But how about I got Idris so he boards the plane without any baggage. Yeah. No handheld baggage, no check baggage. That is a boss move going Abu Dhabi to London without any carry on or checked in baggage that one day. Hope to pull off that kind of flick. Yeah, but I don't.
Think Idris like he's not like you and I. He doesn't sweat.
Yeah, that's.
Good. That's why it's so cool.
All right, guys, let's. Let's leave it there. Thanks for chatting. The Bear, the Emmys and wham, which is a fun little diversion for us. Take care. See you next.
Week. Thank you.
Chef. Yeah. Time to go. Go.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Che Wang. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Give us a review or better yet, share it with a friend. I'm Osman Fergie.
See you soon.