Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cambrai. How's it going, guys?
It's going well. I actually had a bit of a Thomas Mitchell moment this morning. Oh, that could.
Mean any number of things.
It's good. It's related to the sausage roll incident that you had where you famously stole the sausage roll. Anyway, this morning, because of the outage that's going on with Optus at the moment, when I got my coffee, they were like, you don't have to pay for the coffee, just like all the terminals. Let me put your name down. And I was so uncomfortable with it. I felt like I was almost like, do you want to take my license? Like what? What can I give you?
You could just make up a fake name. You could be mad.
Yeah, exactly. I go by that too. I've been trained. But it did make me think Thomas. Like it was very different response. Whereas you. You just took your sausage roll.
Where is this coffee shop?
I'm just downstairs.
Perfect. I'll be down there after this to get myself a sandwich and.
Just write down Osman.
Very funny. For the moment you go down is when Optus is back up and running the $354. Please.
All the orders start coming through like on the bear.
Well, speaking of the bear. So there's a bit of news around that I think is worth touching on. Before we get into the main topic of today's show. The first bit of news just this week, Tuesday night, The Bear was announced that it was returning for season three. That's exciting. How are we.
Feeling? Really happy for you, Thomas. Really happy for you.
I am obviously very excited. And it's funny because now somehow my personal happiness is connected to the bears continuation. I think so, so many people sent it to me yesterday and they were like, hey, obviously the bears coming back, you must be having a great day. I was like, yes, I am.
Also, what do you mean by somehow you have actively.
Yeah, yeah. You've worked very hard to curate.
This is you guys are projected this upon me because Carmy and I are so similar vibe wise. Well, you.
Both left me hanging. I sent you guys a link to the announcement late last night, and you.
Just said at 11:18 p.m., I was asleep.
I was watching Afghanistan smash out a huge innings against Australia in the World Cup, their highest ever one day international total. Very exciting for Afghanistan.
Close, but not close enough though.
I know I was rooting for them as the underdogs. And then obviously Glenn Maxwell absolutely destroyed it with the 201 innings. Incredible stuff. Finishing it with a six. Yes, I was up watching the cricket like a patriotic Australian who was secretly rooting for Afghanistan. So I was disappointed that you guys were asleep.
It was very heroic from Glenn Maxwell, obviously coming through cramp. And inevitably there will be a channel nine miniseries about it.
Underbelly the cramp. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to touch on briefly was the latest in the actors strike, which, depending on who you talk to, is either like about to end any minute or is going to drag on indefinitely. A lot of big names have gotten involved in this lately, like Zachary Quinto, the actor he put an email he sent to Fran Drescher, who you remember is the president of the Screen Actors Guild. And he and he kind of posted it on Instagram saying, Fran, the studio is
like putting the pressure on. They want you to cave, but don't fold. Like I will pick it for the rest of history if need be. I'm not sure every actor is in the same position as Zachary Quinto. He's still living on that Star Trek coin, I guess. But there have been some developments this week. The studios, the amp have said they've sent their final and best offer to the union. It's worth noting that they say that all the time. The union say no thank you, and
they come back with another final and best offer. But from what we hear, agreement has been reached on, like all the key issues to do with things like pay and residuals and the kind of revenue share from streaming providers that could go to artists. The one thing that hasn't been solid yet is I, and this seems like a big sticking point. We're kind of now haggling over the amount of compensation. Both big name actors and background actors should get for their likeness being sort of scanned
and used in AI generated models. What's interesting, though, is I don't know if you guys have started noticing this in work, but even though the strike is still technically on the vibe from studios and acting PR people is that interviews are probably going to start happening again soon.
Like releases are going to start happening again soon. Hotel rooms are being booked for junkets and things, so you get the feeling that even though it's not been formally announced, there's a sense in Hollywood that this is going to be over soon and actors want to get back to work in terms of acting, be want to actually start promoting the movies that are going to come out. But
I think this is also really important. This third bit, the Oscars race is heating up, and a big part of the Oscar race is actors being able to talk about their roles, their performances get on the. Campaign trail. So I think everything is sort of looking like we may get a deal sometime soon. Is that sort of chiming with what you guys are reading and seeing around the place?
Yeah, I think so. It feels like there's a general acceptance. And look, a lot of the evidence you just listed there that things are coming to an end. I do think as well, it's probably a really good time for it to end. I think it's hard because like these, the reality is it's a trendy, cool issue when it
breaks and people get around it. But like sadly, when you're not involved directly, like people do get fatigued, like I'm talking about the wider public, get fatigue on it, and then really they just want to watch their shows and stuff. So I think like, yeah, it's it's gone on longer than a lot of people thought it would 120 days.
Yeah. It's a long time.
Yeah. It's crazy. And I think I do suspect that it will be done like come early the new year, if not before.
Yeah, obviously we're putting up to Boxing Day as well, which is such a big day of cinema releases that it would be great if it could be solved by then. I don't know though. I feel like we often we've had a few moments where we're like, it's close to ending, it's close to ending. So I'm not 100% sure that it's going to be sorted before the end of the year, but I hope early into next year we'll we'll finally get some more actor interviews.
I'm already heartbreaking because they pushed The White Lotus to 2025. It's like it's like, how do you even begin to get excited about a show that's over a year away? Yeah, I think.
That is an understated part of what the strike means. It's like 2024 is going to be slim pickings, like there's been a bunch of big movies like Dune Part two that have been held over from this year. So there'll be some big cinema releases in the first half of next year, but I think the second half of next year will probably be pretty quiet in the cinema front.
And then when it comes to TV, I kind of don't really know what we've got to look forward to, which actually kind of does bring us to our main topic of the day. I'm going to ask you guys a question as a way to sort of ease into this one. When I say the words prestige television, what kinds of shows does that evoke for each of you?
I think the answer that most people will give the HBO classics The Sopranos, The Wire, then you kind of move into Mad Men, that era of things, and then of course, more recently the successions. But I do think that when when people hear the word prestige TV, it's really like wedded to that, that wire Sopranos era when HBO kind of changed the game.
Yeah, I reckon those two are the ones that most people will say. And then also things like House of cards, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, the shows that then continued on in what is often referred to as the golden era of TV.
Yeah, it feels like. That's right. Like there's that early wave of HBO stuff you and I were talking earlier this morning about Oz, which is a show that sort of predated The Sopranos by a few years. I really feel like that did kind of like, lay the groundwork for a lot of those other HBO shows. And then I feel like that next era is that kind of streaming era that Netflix helped usher in when it first started. Things like House of cards and even Orange Is the
New Black, which no one really talks about anymore. It sort of disappeared from the culture, but was a big part of like TV conversation for a while. The reason why I asked you guys that question is not just for the sake of it or a prestige pop quiz, but there's been a lot of conversation lately around the idea of prestige television, which has shaped, as we've said, so much of our viewing experiences. This era may be at an end. I'm going I'm going to read some
headlines to you to this effect. The end of peak television has the era of prestige TV just ground to a halt. That was in The Guardian on June 5th. The era of prestige TV is ending. We're going to miss it when it's gone. That's The New York Times, September 21st. The most recent one, The Twilight of Prestige television. The New Yorker, October 30th, just a week ago. That last one is a piece by Michael Schulman which traces the rise and his claims, the alleged fall of what
we describe as prestige TV. It draws in a couple of books that go into the way that the industry has shifted in the last decade, decade and a half, and basically makes the case that the kinds of shows that we've been talking about, the kinds of shows that we love talking about on this show, things like succession may never come back because of a whole bunch of
factors to do with how the industry operates. Now. I think we've talked a bit about this on the show and kind of roundabout ways, and we've discussed why there seems to be a bit of a drought at the moment with like top tier TV shows. It certainly feels like since succession, there hasn't really been anything of that level of quality that has captured a broader kind of zeitgeisty or conversation. Doesn't seem like, as we were just saying, that anything looks likely to land in that sort of
succession space in 2024 either. So I've spent a bit of time talking to you guys about this thesis of prestige TV potentially being over and what that means for viewers and for people like us who like to talk about it. And maybe we can start. By discussing what we actually mean when we say the words prestige TV. We listed some of those shows, but what do you reckon those shows have in common? Like what makes a
prestige show a prestige show? What separates it from the chaff of most of what you see on TV or on streaming platforms?
I mean, I think it's hard to define, and I think prestige TV is kind of become synonymous with quality, which then makes it very subjective, because one person's prestige TV could be another person's dumpster fire. Like when you Google examples of prestige TV, one of the ones that comes up is Good Wife, which I think is a great a great show. But am I putting that in the same category as some of those other ones we've listed? Probably not. So I think it is like really hard
to define and it's become very kind of subjective. Um, and also I think prestige is a label that is given or taken away very quickly and fluidly, like something might not start off as prestige TV, but then it becomes prestige TV either when it's had its whole season run or further on in the future. And the other way, I think things that do start is prestige TV, something like Stranger Things. You know, I think we labeled that prestige TV at the start, and then we kind of
took that away from it as the season continued. So I think it's a really fluid label is the other thing. But when I think about what they all have in common, I think it's kind of high production values, long narrative arcs, usually longer episodes, bigger budgets. I think they're more character focused, and there's a lot of kind of moral grayness in them. They're all about kind of existing in the middle. They're not kind of clear cut shows with goodies and baddies.
They have complicated narratives and complicated characters.
Yeah, I think that's all very true. But I think in terms of the actual label, even if we do take it away or give it, but like, I mean, succession is a great example because we love talking about it and B, it's the most recent prestige TV and it had like the very much the right ingredients for all the things you need to be labeled prestige. So it was like critically acclaimed. It was super buzzy. It was like no one wanted to get spoilers. Every single week.
It did. Like, you know, the ratings weren't crazy to begin with, but they popped off eventually. But also, it would sweep every award show. So it had that like perfect balance of like fans were obsessed with it. Critics were telling you it was the greatest show and everyone like, needed to be watching it. No one wanted to know what was going on. It seized the fascination of the internet.
So how do all those factors at play at once, which I think is what is really required to be like prestige as well these days you need to have like the critical acclaim. The award shows need to be on your side and you need to kind of have this internet presence, but.
Then it's a prestige show, just a good show.
No, I think the two things can coexist. But I just mean when we to also have that prestige label, those things really have to be in play.
Yeah, I agree with all of those. I mean, there's a couple of extra sort of metrics or maybe like checks that I would add for something to be considered prestige.
I think it's not always the case, but often these shows what they've got in common is like they are the vision, the singular vision of like a particular auteur, whether that's either like a writer or a director, like, I think David Simon and The Wire, like there's writers rooms involved in this stuff, but True Detective, Nick has a lot of like, these are visions from one particular person who wants to use a framing device to tell
a story about, like, decay in modern America. I mean, that's the other thing a lot of these shows have
in common. They all secretly about decay in modern America in different ways, you know, even like House of cards when that first came out, does David Fincher, the extremely, extremely accomplished film director sitting down and Jesse Armstrong and succession, like, there are lots of people who make these things come together, but unlike kind of like even good like network shows, which there's a premise, but then there's like ten different
people who are equally involved in bringing episodes to life. I think that's slightly distinct from the prestige world, where it's an artist attempting to use television to get across their sort of thesis or their analysis of the world. And I think there is also an overlap with prestige. And certain networks or streamers like HBO is the most obvious one. I feel like that is like a bit less so the case at the moment. I think it'll be interesting to see. We'll talk a bit about this
later on. Like HBO is in a very different era in terms of how it's been swallowed up by these like huge megacorporations Warner Brothers discovery, like the Discovery Channel, now owns everything, and HBO has been rebranded to Max. It's a whole crazy world. I think that's having an impact. But I also think early era Netflix was pretty synonymous with prestige, too, and I think that is also shifted.
Do you guys agree? If we sort of I mean, firstly, I should ask, do you think between all of that we have a loose definition of prestige, or do you think we've still got some tension here about what we're talking about?
I think it's so fluid. It's based on the way the user deploys it. I think it's an amorphous category that is always going to be changing. And what's prestige today won't be tomorrow. What do they say, like marry the age widow in the next? I just don't I think it's this like label that people put out, which is mainly served to get those shows attention. Right. You want the label prestige because it's going to have all these kind of signifiers that are not actually connected to anything.
I don't know, I don't really know what we're talking about when we're talking about prestige TV. Like, are you calling The Queen's Gambit prestige?
I think I also was going to say it's an amorphous category, so just want to put that out there.
Like is the Crown? No, actually I just, I don't like I actually don't understand. I read all these articles about it and I'm like, no one can pin down what prestige TV is. So how unhelpful. Well, I'm.
Really glad you're saying this on the podcast where we decided to talk about prestige.
I totally disagree, I think that is so wrong. I could list ten shows right to Osbourne right now, and I could say six of them are prestige in my head. And I bet you he would pick.
The who is that a reflection of? It's of what you consider quality. So is not prestige TV just good? But no, because.
There is a commonly accepted thing. Like what? What makes prestige TV? Like if I went out and asked ten people in the newsroom, is success in prestige TV? They'd say yes. And I'd say is.
Well, the Queen's Gambit is a good one. I don't think that is. And I don't think most people would think that would be presented.
That's not prestige.
I reckon. People I reckon people might say no, they wouldn't stage. They wouldn't. So you're you just think it needs critical and commercial success.
But it's just one of those things, you know?
Okay, well, anything that people say, they just know I like I've got a question. You know what I mean?
I would say the Crown is another one. The Crown is probably prestige TV for a bit. And now I'd probably say people would no longer say it is.
Okay, what do you guys think about sex in the city? What is that full in this.
Conversation, not prestige TV?
Yeah, I would say not. Not prestige.
TV. It's a classic, but it's not prestige.
Yeah, interesting. That's like a kind of a borderline one for me in that I think one of the other things that I think these shows that we associate with the label prestige do well, is they often like doing something new, or that kind of creating a genre like that is something that shows like us and The Sopranos and The Wire did, though they reinvented genres something like sex and the city, which had high production values. Great writing was like division of a couple of people and
pushed an idea of what television could be forward. That's quite different to just a well-made show that is doing a period drama, or that is doing a comedy or something like that. Male. I feel like it is going to be difficult to have a conversation about whether or not we are post prestige, if we don't agree with each other on what the label is. But I wonder whether for the purposes of the conversation, we can just
say there is a broad. The glory of like, well-made, expensive shows that are about meaty, complicated themes are entertaining, a bit avant garde in terms of the way they tell stories, where they look, the acting and HBO makes a lot of them. Netflix used to make a lot of them, and lots of people are worried that these kinds of shows might not exist anymore. Can we just agree on that? As a as a loose categories.
Of the debate, we will accept that definition.
Could I just could I just add one more thing though? You mentioned sex and the city, and I do think people also have a hard time including like comedy or half hour shows in the prestige label like Seinfeld is probably prestige TV, but it's not. When you asked us, no one here said Seinfeld, even though it's one of the greatest shows, because I think prestige has become synonymous with the 45 minutes to an hour like brooding drama. So I think that does it gets tricky in that space.
But yeah, well, I.
Think, I mean, I think it's useful, this conversation, even if it may be there are some people being like, what the fuck are these guys talking about? But I think if the three of us, you know, are struggling to say this is a clear case of what's in what's at, I think that is relevant and useful for people. And I think it probably is reflective of the fact that, particularly in the streaming world, a lot of these boundaries are kind of blurred, like it used to be very obvious.
What was an HBO show versus an NBC show like? These shows looked different and we're trying to do different things, whereas now every streamer is trying to, like, look a little bit HBO in a way. And shows like The Queen's Gambit, a borrowing element of what prestige used to do, but are telling much more straightforward kind of story. So
it is complicated. It is messy. And I think there's another layer to this, which is that film is like a shadow of its former self, because a lot of what used to be films are now TV shows or limited dramas, some of which are quote unquote prestige and some of which are not. But there's like a very it's a messy landscape is what I'm trying.
To say, that you're now having to say prestige with like, air quotes to show that the meaning is under interrogation.
Yeah. Okay. But if we go back to this idea of like, really high quality television that is generally critically acclaimed and builds broad audiences, things like succession, that's what we're going to stick with for the rest of this conversation. Do we think there has been a drop off, which is what a lot of these big, big articles and big publications from the times to the New York to The Guardian is saying, have we noticed this?
I think there has been like, you know, there's a few articles that gardening, one in particular that kind of talks about how naturally it was a cycle where the baton would get handed over and it just kind of happened organically. We kind of went through that, obviously like post Sopranos, but then we went into like the Mad Men era. Then Game of Thrones popped up and that became a thing. And then we had Breaking Bad, and then it all just kind of kept flowing into one another.
But it did feel like, I think collectively for the viewing public that there was this, like, I don't know, that trepidation as succession came to an end, which was obviously so devastating for everyone anyway, there was no clear successor in sight and no one like. It's hard to say why exactly. I mean, we're obviously about to get into it, but yeah, it does feel like we went through a bit of a golden age of the golden age, and then now it's it's looking pretty barren.
Yeah, I feel like I'm less pessimistic about it. And I think that, no, I don't think I don't think prestige TV is over. I think the media loves nothing more than declaring that something is dead repeatedly for decades. I, I think that succession was a work of art. And you don't get a work of art like, every year. Like that's not how it works in music. It's not how it works in books. I mean, just because we don't have another succession immediately doesn't mean that TV is dead.
I look at what's on or what's been on lately, like Bad Sisters, White Lotus Beef, deadlock hacks. All of these are fantastic shows, and I'm also like, I'm kind of wary too, because the shows we keep talking about like The Wire, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, House of cards, they're all really one kind of show in a way. They're like the anti-hero male, and they're all written by men called David. So I think TV has moved from
that into something different. But I don't think we're seeing the end of good TV in any stretch, maybe different TV, but I think quality TV is still there to be found.
This is going to sound like I'm a cop out. I'm kind of in the middle of both of you, but I'll explain why. Because I agree with you, Mel, that just because we don't have 50 amazing shows every year doesn't mean like, you know, it's the end of the world and we're not going to get good shows anymore. But I do think there's been a drop off. But I think the problem, though is the drop off is from this, like artificial high that we've been living in
for the last few years. That was never really sustainable. But we were very lucky for a bunch of different reasons. I'll go into we got used to having like ten insanely great shows starring Oscar winners that existed on relatively affordable streaming platforms that we could just watch at the drop of a hat, and I feel like we got used to that. We got fat on that, you know, we sucked on that teat. We enjoyed ourselves. We, you know, there's a boom in like podcasts talking about these shows,
people writing about these shows. Audiences love reading about this, like a little bit of like lifting the veil, like one of the most read categories on our news sites. Sydney Morning Herald in the age of the last few years has been like TV, like people love reading and watching shiny, exciting, fun, edgy, interesting TV shows. And there's been so many of them, I would say for the past like 5 to 8 years. I think we are seeing a lot less and I think we will continue
to see a lot less. And I think probably what that means is will go back to the era of there was one and then two years later there was another one, and then two years later there was another one. But that is not going to be satisfying for people of our generation, because we are not used to the late 90s, early 2000 model. We used to the current streaming model where Amazon, Disney, Apple, Netflix, Stan, Binge will have 2 to 3 of these at any one time.
So that's kind of like why I'm sort of sitting in between you guys on that one. I think the reasons as to why this is happening is kind of more interesting in a way. I think, like what has happened in the last decade or half a decade is so there's this term people talk about in like tech land, right? When it comes to things like the rise of Uber and the rise of Airbnb. You remember when Uber first came out and it was like so cheap. Everyone's like,
why would you not use Uber? Because it costs like $2 to get from Surry Hills to Ashfield. The driver will give you mints and water. This is amazing. Well, like disrupting the landscape. Same with Airbnb. Like it was really cheap to use these kinds of apps. That's not the case anymore, right? Like all these apps that started out as cheap and fun are now expensive and terrible, essentially because they were funded by huge amounts of venture capital that made them really easy and cheap for us
to use. But those companies lost heaps of money just to try and build huge market share. That's kind of what we've been dealing with with streaming as well, like when these big streaming companies, I think Netflix is a big one, came out. They didn't make money for a very long period of time. Their goal was to pay these big directors, tens or hundreds of millions of dollars
to put shiny shows on their platform. So we would all subscribe for relatively cheap prices a month that was never going to last, because the economics of that just didn't stack up. So we've been enjoying the largesse of like, venture capital for the last five years that have created an amazing amount of shows that money is running out. Money isn't as cheap as it was because of like rising interest. I sorry to do an economic lecture, but like this is kind of related. Wall Street is demanding
like big returns on their investments in these companies. And the end result is what we are living through now, which is that the cost of all these streaming platforms is going up, the amount of content is going down, and the quality of content is going down. Like I feel like that is pretty unequivocal, right? Like we are all noticing how cost per month of streaming going up, and we are seeing shows that are not as good as that used to be, particularly, I think so, to
single out Netflix. But I feel like Netflix is the most obvious indicator of this, where they went from being the prestige network to just like pumping out a lot more reality and a lot more cheaper drama. Is that fair to say?
Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, like that's when the story broke, like over the last couple of years, I think it was early last year that Netflix had like shed subscribers and its like profits had fallen. It was kind of like chaos, like everyone was in shock. And I think the rest of the streamers, like, really took notice that this was like the monolith of the streaming world. And finally, Netflix was like showing that this model that had apparently been working so well was actually
not working anymore. And that really had a domino effect, I think, for everyone, and very much plays into what we're seeing now because Netflix has had to really learn, like changed its strategy. Like, no longer are we, you know, we're about to see The Crown season six, the sixth and final season of one of Netflix's original kind of prestige offerings. And that feels very much like the end of chapter for Netflix, because they don't really do those
types of things anymore. Like, it is true that original commissions have continued to decline in quality, but as a result of the fact that they're now shedding subscribers and their profits are down, they can't spend as much money. They need to get just like more content out there to try and, like, keep people on the platform. And it's just kind of had this like flow on effect. Yeah.
Like I agree with you to some extent. I've watched enough prestige TV about kind of startup startups to know that unmitigated growth can't last. But what I think you're seeing with Netflix is that is just going to be their strategy. And as the market settles, all of these streamers will find their own strategy. You know, we can see it with HBO Max versus HBO, and you will see different streaming platforms appeal to different subscribers. I mean,
you see it in the news industry. Netflix is going for the throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. It's got a more kind of tabloid free access website versus something like, I don't know, ah, the Sydney Morning Herald, which goes for a more premium quality subscriber. I think
that's what we're seeing. And I mean, I guess I was my only question to you is that if they made all their money off the back of people subscribing for quality TV, where is the risk that they're going to lose those subscribers if they're no longer delivering the quality TV? You know what I mean? Like, I think your argument relies on the fact that they're not going to produce quality TV and they think people are going to keep subscribing. Yeah.
Look, I think my point is not that it worked for them to spend heaps of money on TV and
get subscribers. I think my point is more, they tried to do that and they realised after a few years the numbers didn't add up, which is why the prices are going up, the quality is going down and we're getting ads on these platforms like remember what the promise was of streaming when like they broke cable like like, you know, five, six, seven, eight years ago it was you can pay 4.99 a month and get access to everything, and you won't have to see ads that doesn't exist anymore.
Like all of these streamers are adding ad tiers. I think a lot of people like. Check out how much you're paying for these things. Whenever I tell people like Netflix doesn't cost 799 anymore, like you're probably paying 20 or $30 for like the top tier model, it kind of shocks people because you used to be able to pay 70 or $80 a month and you got Foxtel, and that was every single show in the world that
existed at the time you had access to. Whereas now we're all fragmented onto these different platforms, paying more money than ever, still getting ads and not getting access to everything. We're just getting access to like, whatever we've signed up for.
I think what we are starting to realize is that the streaming model, which was very appealing to us as consumers because of its low cost, was not going to be sustainable in creating high quality stuff like that is and I think the streaming companies are making purely rational decisions. They're like, this is fine. We can still make heaps of money without having to pay David Fincher $80 million to make a show like House of cards, and I
think that is what we are living in now. But I think that is why we are not going to see these great quality shows anymore for a while, or we're not going to see anywhere near as many of them, because they're expensive to make. And these companies think that they can make enough money by giving us more of like, you know, Love Is Blind season ten or whatever. Like I do feel like that is the current mode we are entering. Does that make sense?
Yeah it does. It is funny though, because like, even though the economics of that all stack up when like, you know, executives are still kind of very much ego driven. And the praise that comes with being the home of a succession is addictive, I think, for everyone. So that like desire to be lauded with like, oh, where the home of succession will always be appealing to executives, I think.
So I do suspect that there will always be these big money offers to kind of the greatest creative minds out there to try and make the next succession or Game of Thrones or Mad Men. But yeah, I definitely don't think there'll be like the regularity or as much of a we won't have 2 or 3 of them going at the same time.
Yeah. I think the bigger picture in all of this is that like TV is a weird institution. And basically whether it was HBO, whether it's streaming now, artists, creative showrunners, directors, auteurs, whatever their basically their job was to try and trick people with lots of money into letting them make wacky stuff. Right. Like even back to the days of, like, Twin Peaks, like fuck knows how Lynch managed to convince people to let him make that show, and they managed to do
it through mainly HBO in that era. And in the last decade or so, when there was heaps of money being pumped into these big streamers, all sorts of creatives were allowed to take risks and do stuff. And you ended up with, like, I often think about this show, gaslit, I think, Thomas, maybe you watched I don't know if you did, Mel, which was a incredible show starring both Sean Penn and Julia Roberts. That was about the Watergate
situation with Nixon. Based on Slow Burn and extremely successful podcast. No one watched that show like no one watch that show was one of the most expensive shows made in recent history because of the wages of the stars, and that is like one of maybe like 50 or 100. Extremely good. Definitely capital pay, prestige TV shows that were funded in this era where, like, everyone was just willing
to like, give this stuff a crack. And I think this brings us back to the start of this conversation, that level of content, that volume of content is going to disappear. We're still going to get networks fully. Thomas being like, yeah, we still want to like, win an Emmy. We still want to give this a crack and we will still get everyone trying to do this, but I think it'll be more like it was 20 years ago than what it's been like for the last five years,
where we had heaps of options. And I think that has ramifications for like conversations people have about what are you watching? Like what's coming up, what are we talking about? And it has ramifications for people like us in terms of like what we talk about week to week and what we cover and what we commission, what we recap.
Do you think this could also be an opportunity for the streamers, like some streamers will potentially reshape as providers of premium products, you know, and you will subscribe to that. And people who want that kind of show will subscribe to that stream of for prestige TV. Like, you know, if A24 launched their own kind of streaming network, you would kind of it would take its niche, but rusted on audience who want a kind of show to it. Like,
isn't that what we'll see happen with. We will see market providers of a certain kind of show rise up in the same way as you do. As I keep saying in other fields, like in literature, you have kind of smaller providers. Smaller publishers don't hire.
All of you would get there. Eventually.
You will have smaller publishers providing a certain type of literary quality that you don't get from the bigger publishers, like you don't get from a Harpercollins, which is doing the mass publishing. Like, isn't that what we're just going to see that the market's going to adjust itself?
No, you're you're right, you're right. There'll be a lot of the bigger streamers that don't do this, and they'll be small stream. And there are a lot of streamers doing this already now, right. I feel like Apple TV is a funny one. I mean, like the morning show. Great production values. Absolutely. Dog shit. I don't know if anyone's watching season three. It is completely lost the plot. It is hilarious. But you know, they've got slow horses
coming back with Gary Oldman. Like they're doing this stuff. But Mel, my question back to you is that even if that is what happens, and I think that is probably what happens TV, in terms of how we consume and how we talk about it, has for a long
time been a community collective event. If 4 or 5% of the population has this prestige TV streamer and they are the only people who are watching these really amazing shows, it's like if a tree falls in the woods and no one's sad to hear it, did it fall like, I kind of worry about that in a way.
But you know, they are the same people who were watching succession, right? The people you were talking about, succession. Wasn't that like the numbers didn't really add up for succession in terms of were more people watching the latest reruns on NCIS? Of course they were. So the people you're talking about, you're all still going to be having the same conversation. You're just going to be subscribing to one channel.
Like, I see I see what you're saying, and I think it's going to increasingly get more fragmented. But yeah, it just it just kind of like worries me that, I mean, it is we've all so plugged into this machine and it becomes like this content feeder for everyone and the entire ecosystem. And like we saw it with succession, how we all like. And it was it was nice. It was a nice collective viewing experience. I think people who are into that show, it was like that appointment
TV and everything. And then like, now that we're kind of facing this weird future where audiences are like, I'm just watching this tiny thing and you're watching this thing like, yeah, it just paints a kind of bleak picture. I think.
I actually didn't expect you to be as pessimistic as me. Thomas, on this. I sort of thought maybe you'd be the optimist, and Mel and I would be, like, languishing in terms. I'm a little bit surprised at how and like, I don't mean that in a negative way, Mel. Like, I think it's good to have a rosier view because I think I have been pretty deep in like. Okay. We live in an era where the concentration of media, in terms of who makes it more distributed is more than ever.
Like these companies who run there's like three giant media companies left in America who make and distribute all this stuff. Corporate profits are sky high. Hollywood is on strike to try and get a piece of the pie. The volume of high quality stuff is going down. The volume of low quality, largely non scripted stuff is going up. Everything's fragmented. No one's watching the same stuff. We're living in different worlds.
Nothing about this looks good. So it's sort of nice to have you just kind of cut through that a bit and be like, calm the fuck down. We're still going to get good shows and it's still going to be the same weirdo nerds like us who watch it. Not not the masses who watch Big Bang Theory.
Yeah, but the problem is that Mel's version of prestige TV is like The Queen's Gambit and stuff. So there will be shows coming out. Look at all this prestige TV we have and it's like, all of this is rubbish.
I also think maybe, I mean, I agree my outlook is more optimistic, but I think it's rooted in cynicism because I don't think I have that much belief that art always rises to the top of the pile when it comes to capitalism, and I don't think it does. Like, I think art getting art made, good art made is a struggle. And yeah, maybe TV has had a wealth of it for a while. But you know, when you look at the numbers, like if Netflix is putting on
shows that aren't prestige, it's because they're getting numbers. And so I guess my view is kind of that art is never going to be what is popular, because if something's popular, it's not always great art or it's popular at that time, but it doesn't stand the test of time.
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think this is back to the kind of main thrust of the show, which is that I think we're really lucky to have a lot of really great art made, because we lived in this bubble of like, cheap money and cheap money and streaming for a while, and now things are sort of settling. I just think we're going to be living through an adjustment phase that is going
to take a little bit of getting used to. The other thing on this I wanted to touch on, we don't talk about these shows that much, even though they are the biggest shows in the world. It's like the Disney Star Wars Marvel thing, right? You guys like a real Marvel or Star Wars hit? No.
And therefore we don't put it in our prestige TV category, though I'm sure some people would write because they have all those.
I would say that even despite not being a marvel man, I would probably say The Mandalorian accepted as prestige.
Yeah, and in Star Wars Land, like Andor was like a recent show that was like, generally considered. Tony Gilroy, who wrote, you know, has written a bunch of great films, wrote that, and was good. I, for my sins, have seen every single Marvel film and TV show and every single Star Wars film, and I am.
So blown away by that. For someone who doesn't really stay home at night, you still watch a lot of TV. I just don't understand when it's happened.
When he was sick last week. Just a.
Marvel. My housemate says the same thing. He's like every morning, you know, he you come home like quite late and then in the morning you're up and you're like, you seen like these seven shows, bro. I don't love Marvel, but I have always thought it's part of my job in a way to be across it because of how massive it is. The reason why I bring it up
in this conversation is because. That ecosystem is also going through like a lot of grim stuff at the moment, like the last few Marvel shows have not worked like Loki season two, which is the big one out now, is just like getting critically panned. It is very hard to watch its Tom Hiddleston like there's a lot of good bits to it, but it is not going well. And same with Star Wars. Like the big show this year was this one Ahsoka with Rosario Dawson and Australia's
Natasha Lupo. So this is supposed to be a big, great show. It is so hard to watch. It is like no one in this show seems to have been on set at the same time, so they're not like interacting with one another properly. And this is related to the prestige convo. It's slightly adjacent to it. Just because these shows were so big and so reliable for so long. And I think again, there was this huge like. Turn the knob to like max amount of volume. And they pumped so many of them out. And I think the
quality has gone down. So I just bring it up because we don't love talking about them. We're not obsessed with them. But I do know that people listen to the show, are interested in those shows, and I think it's worth acknowledging that even in that space, which is driven by like hectic fandom, there is a big conversation happening about declining quality in that kind of ecosystem.
Yeah, it's funny because I'm not really a big into that. But I remember especially this kind of coincided with like when Netflix was just so all encompassing that everyone just watched basically everything that was on there. And I was I was quite big into Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Jessica Jones was really good.
Jessica Jones was amazing. That was a really great Netflix early Marvel show.
Yeah, yeah. And so I was kind of hooked. And then I must say, Luke Cage and Iron Fist both really bad shows. And then like even to the point, I was like, even I am shocked that these people have their own, these characters have their own shows, and they just kind of went so hard and was like The Defenders, The Punisher, Jessica Jones season two. And it was just like every other week there was a new Marvel spin off and they yeah, they definitely got two gradient.
It was like too much of a good thing. And like then that was kind of, I guess like set the benchmark for where we're at now.
The other thing I think is worth mentioning, like we're talking about these big blockbuster franchises, but I do think that a streamer's kind of face tougher financial circumstances as the market shrinks. I do worry that the kind of
big losers will be local productions for Australia. And there's a very live debate in Australia at the moment about putting on content quotas on the streamers, but I think that is a risk that local productions will stop being a high priority for streamers, as they're looking to kind of make more of a niche market for themselves.
Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think it's worth acknowledging that, like telling Australian stories in a market the size of Australia is not always the most profitable thing for large multinational corporations like Amazon, Netflix, Disney are happy to operate in this market, Hoover up millions of dollars in terms of subscription fees. And yet, I mean, look, Netflix has obviously made a bunch of Australian shows, right?
We've covered them. We talk about them a lot, but as a proportion of their total spend, like, how much is it? That's why there is this conversation about the government potentially passing laws to force them to. And I think that if you want to see Australian stories told, you need those laws passed because there's no profit imperative to do it. This is the whole point of of this conversation, I think was saying is that the best art isn't made in television because it makes heaps of money.
It's made because creators managed to trick the right executive at the right time to give them a bunch of money or like what we're talking about. The government forces them to do it. I think this is like an ongoing conversation. I'm sorry if this got a little bit like in the weeds in terms of dollars and cents, but I've been thinking a lot lately about how the culture we consume TV, but also movies and also music is so reflective of the economic conditions around it and
who controls distribution and who controls commissioning. And because it is so much more hyper concentrated than it's ever been and so much more fragmented than it's ever been, and the strike stuff is going on, it's made me think it's really hard to talk about TV and culture without talking about. The economic basis for it, you know, the superstructure, blah, blah, blah. Marx had some stuff to say about this.
I'm sure Thomas is all across that.
I was going to do a thing on Marx, but you've done that now, so I will instead move on to the latest report from the Australian Communications Media Authority, ACMA, which actually came out this morning. And it looks at how much has been spent on Australian content. So subscription video on demand providers that includes Disney Plus, Netflix, Paramount Plus, Prime and Stan spent $324 million in the last financial year,
which is down from 335,000,000in the previous year. So that's the 35 million decrease in commissioned program investment, mainly across adult drama and documentary. So yeah, it's interesting, like we are kind of seeing a kind of downward slope in terms of what's being commissioned and how much is being spent. So yeah, I mean, it was if it wasn't already hard enough for like local programming to get up on these like massive streamers who rely so much on just like,
you know, easy wins, less is also being spent. So interesting times.
Yeah. And I think if there's a through line from this conversation we've had, it's that expect there to be less television for the foreseeable future. Expect there to be less of the mail. Don't get mad at me for saying this. Prestige television. It's not all game over, but like this is a thing I think we have to
get used to. And it'll be interesting in terms of conversations we have at work and on this podcast about what we cover, how we cover, because I think we've been talking about what is the next succession, what is the next show that we might recap episode by episode. And there might not be one for a while, but I'm going to be very excited when we find it.
The last thing I wanted to do in this conversation was ask you guys to share some, like, hidden prestige gems that that have existed on these maybe smaller streamers that maybe we missed in this big glut. We've been talking about. Mel. Jonah suggests something.
I do, and I will say, until we get the next big TV show, we'll just have definitional definitional debates or not on repeat. So that'll keep us going for a while.
People love meta conversations, you.
Know, I will mention an Australian prestige show. We're just talking about how important local drama is. Mr. Inbetween. It is amazing. I feel like it's had new life because all of the episodes and seasons landed on binge are, I believe it was last year. This is written by Scott Ryan, who plays Ray Shoesmith. He's a killer for hire. It's also got Matt Nable, Damien Harriman, Brooke Satchwell, Nash Edgerton directed it. It's dark comedy. He kind of plays
this killer for hire, but he's got heart. He's murdering one moment, playing with his daughter. Who's next? It's just so well crafted and put together. And I know Scott Ryan struggled for a while to to get it made. And it was launched in the US actually before it came here. But it's just a fantastic show and if people haven't watched it yet, it's well worth checking out. I know you guys both love it, right? Yeah, it's.
A great show.
It's great. I was really into it. Very funny. He's so great. The lead actor and yeah, it's it's it really didn't get like I think it did. People loved it but it didn't seem to get the like hype.
I think it got quite like, I don't know if I've got huge numbers in the States, but the critical response there was pretty was pretty great. I think. Thomas, you've got one that I think is going to fracture our little alliance on this.
Episode, just on this episode.
On this definitional question of prestige television.
I know it's so annoying because I've spent I've been dying on this hill of prestige. It's so obvious to say, and now we're going to have an argument about it. But my one is, this is a fucking good show, man. It's how to make it in America. It's an HBO show. It ran for two seasons in 2010, so the show has become like a bit of a cult hit. It basically followed like these two young 20 year olds in America who are kind of like trying to make their
version of the American Dream. It was like part of the like, entourage era of TV, which I know hasn't aged well. But this was different. It starred, she starred. Kid Cudi was in it.
Yeah. Kid Katie was one of my favorite parts into this show. And like, Bell.
Bell's so good. So it basically was like Bryan Greenberg and Victor Rusk, these two characters, and they kind of like trying to make it in the New York fashion scene. But the thing that was so great about it was it was like at the start of like hustle culture and streetwear culture and, and like, you know, just as social media was becoming so important to our everyday lives. Yeah.
Remember the graphics were very like Instagram, early Instagram. Yeah. Like sound and.
Filter and stuff. So it was like it was like very cool. And the fact that Kid Cudi was in it, they showed like amazing party scenes and it was like it had the, I guess, like the zaniness of an entourage, but it had like something more to say. And it got canceled after two seasons. It is one of those shows, like if you Google how to make it in America, there's a million forms. People are like, bring it back,
bring it back. And Bryan Greenberg and Victor Russell actually a couple of years ago, like put an Instagram post up and they were like hanging out in some diner and people like, oh my God, how did it make an America's coming back? So yeah, look, to me, it is a hidden prestige TV gem. I loved it and I miss it and I think everyone should go and watch it, but I know oseman you don't think it counts?
Well, you've spoken so earnestly about it. I don't really want to cut you down. I mean, I think it's a fine show. It sort of lost the whole point of the show is this guys trying to make a jeans brand, which is sort of annoying. I'm like, fuck off, dude, get a job. And then I think. The second season just becomes about his mate. And like Luis Guzman, who's like this weird character actor in a bunch of stuff pops up and he's just trying to sell this, like,
energy drink. The show lost the plot very quickly, I think. I think that was a good reason it wasn't renewed.
This is like pre Logan Paul with Prime. Like they were very like they were prophesying the future.
Every celebrity's got an energy drink.
So yeah check it out.
Fair. Yeah. Cool. I got a couple and these two are I say this a lot and people get sick of me saying this. I genuinely think these are two of the best pieces of art that have been created in the last decade, and not enough people have watched from. The first one is Watchmen, which came out in 2019 on HBO. It's out here on binge. It's an adaptation of the very, very, very well known Alan Moore graphic novel. It's been done by Damon Lindelof, who's really well known
for The Lost and The Leftovers. There was like a pretty average, mediocre film adaptation of this by Zack Snyder a while ago. The show is amazing. It's like it scratches all my itches in terms of what I want from TV. It is about the current state of America and decay in modern America. It's about the legacy of American imperialism, race relations, police violence. It's wrapped in this like super quirky sci fi mystery. Don't really know what's
going on. The opening to this is so gripping. It opens with footage of the Tulsa massacre in 1921, when dozens of black people and hundreds more were injured in like, a race riot and in fact helped, like re, popularized the Tulsa massacre in the American consciousness like it is now. Something people talk about that they didn't as much before
this show came out. And then the first scene that's set in, like the real time of the show is these white supremacists doing an ambush and killing these police, and you're not quite sure what's going on. And then futures crushed up just drops and you're like, this is straight out of my brain in terms of what I want from TV. So go watch the show. The other one is a show called station 11. This was an adaptation of a book Mel you'll be excited to know
by Canadian writer Emily Saint John Mandel. It's a novel about a pandemic and how society rebuilds after pandemic and what is like, important. Turns out it's like family and love and art. This was a really interesting production because they started filming it before the actual pandemic hit, and then when the actual pandemic hit, they're like, should we
make the show? This doesn't feel like we should be making this show right now, but they managed to make something quite beautiful and poignant about the moment we lived in and went through. It's great. It's on Apple TV+. I think those two shows, they exist. If you're looking for something to watch and you're bemoaning the state of TV right now as we have been, give all of
these shows a watch, even how to make it in America. Okay, we've just in some recommendations, but we still are going to do our Impress Your Friends recommendations because we are nice people who want you all to have things to consume. Mel, you can go first this time.
As you want shows about the current state of America. You want shows about the state of decay. Have I got the ultimate show for you? I've been into the Kardashians. I'm picking this firstly because I think I need a rebrand. On the podcast.
You're recommending one of the most popular.
TV shows on.
Prestige. I mean, last week it was The Equalizer. This week it's the Kardashians using brawn across it all.
Yeah, impress your friends. Hey, I heard this great show on this podcast. It's called The Kardashians. You're aware of. Like this. This is about.
A small time.
And the show around them.
Okay. No, I think there's something interesting going on in this season, particularly since the Kardashians went to Disney. But I think in this season in particular, because at its heart, it's a fight between Kim Kardashian, the kind of matriarch apart from Kris Kardashian of the Kardashian clan and Kourtney Kardashian. And in real time, you were watching this family decide about what they want their legacy to be and what
they want their family to be in the future. And this sisterly fight Kourtney kind of wants out of the family, doesn't really want to be as involved in it anymore. Kim wants to double down on all the opportunities. I think that's really interesting. And also what they've added into the show lately, increasingly, is that the Kardashians reflection on their own show. So you're watching them watch edits of the show, and those edits are having kind of consequences
on the entire you're smiling at me, Thomas. I'm not convincing you here, am I?
No, no, no, no, because I was going to say, like, I actually have been watching this, like in the background as my wife watches it. And I've never been into the Kardashians and, but it is like super gripping and I, it annoys me when people are just like, you know, write the Kardashians off is like, if you're into that, it's just like, so cringe. And they're a punch line because like, there are some of the most recognizable people
in the world right now. You can't ignore that. And the show is like strangely gripping and especially that storyline between Kim and Kourtney, because I'm just like, this is, you know, it is like a version of succession happening in fucking Calabasas.
And the narrative that is going on around the show is actually affecting the plot of the show. Yeah, the.
Nellie as meta as this podcast. It's good. Totally.
They're like actor and audience at once. It like, blows my mind. I think there's a lot to unpack.
It's a good wreck. Like I have seen all of keeping Up with like the first original series, I think, on E! And then I watched the first season of the New one and kind of fell off like I just was a bit like over it, and the narratives weren't gripping me. But I have heard a lot of similar things about the last few weeks, and in this season in particular, which feels more interesting and seems to have more to say about them, but also like the reality TV paradigm and how that is like collapsing in
on the real world now. It seems really fascinating.
Yeah, totally. And there's still all the annoying parts, you know, there's a lot of self promotion and there's promotion of their individual brands, and there are kind of set up moments that are there for, you know, obviously just TV viewing pleasure. But yeah, I think that question is what's really interesting about this season. Great.
The Kardashians little known show about a little known family. You heard it here.
Consider yourself impressed.
Thomas. You impressed us. What have you got?
Okay, well, continuing the Freaky Friday theme of this part, I am now becoming Melanie Cambria and recommending a book.
Welcome. You'll love it.
So yes, I this is a book recommendation from Thomas Mitchell who.
Gave you this book.
You gave me.
Actually.
So the book is Death Valley by Melissa Broder. We both read and enjoyed her previous work, Milk Fed, which was very, very kind of this darkly funny, absurd novel. This is very funny. Basically, our kind of narrator takes herself off in the middle of the California desert. She stays at a depressing Best Western, like the kind of motel that everyone has stayed at at some point in their life. Usually when they're like in transit or having
a very bad time. Both her husband and her father are currently in ICU for two separate issues, and both are like kind of hanging on for dear life, and she just takes herself away and stays at this best Western and then has a kind of like transcendental trip to the desert where she stumbles upon this like magic cactus and she enters into the cactus and, you know, kind of like it gets it gets a weird, like a bit acid trippy. But she's. So the thing about
Melissa Brody's writing is she's so funny. It's very, very hilarious. It's very poignant. It's very all these things. As well as being quite topical and relevant. Her writing is so gripping, and even though there are kind of like fantastical elements, it feels rooted in the here and now. It's very funny. So it's Death Valley by Melissa Broder, and on top of all that, the cover will look amazing on the gram. It's kind of like it's playing with like light greens
and yellows. There's a there's a cute illustration of the Death Valley cactus on the front. Like, if you chuck that in your tote and then you have like a macho lady in the background, I will like that shit. So yeah, that's Death Valley by Melissa Broder.
You're going to if you're going to Clavell Gordon's Bay, Fitzroy pool, this is the book you want to be seen reading. Correct. Summer. Do you guys remember the whole GameStop drama?
I was I was obsessed with it. And I'm sad that I haven't seen this movie yet.
How much money did you make or lose on that?
That's a private matter and I won't be discussing that or the current state of my sportsbook account.
So yeah, you might remember a couple of years ago there was this crazy story Reddit subreddit, Wall Street Bets were all involved in pumping up the price of GameStop shares because they were mad that a bunch of hedge funds were shorting those shares, and the price went astronomical. And a bunch of them made a bunch of money. A bunch people lost a bunch of money. There was congressional hearings. It was all very exciting and revolutionary. And
the memes are great. That has been turned into a docudrama called Dumb Money, actually directed by Craig Gillespie, who's an Australian American writer and director. It stars Paul Dano, Shailene Woodley, America Ferrera, Seth Rogen. This is an interesting one. I saw this on the weekend and it's an interesting recommendation in the sense that I didn't love it. Like, I didn't think this was an incredible movie. I think this movie is trying to be the Big Short in
terms of like the way that it's edited. It's like very fun. There's a lot of exposition in terms of how certain bits of the stock market work. There's a lot of like fun and music in it and montages and things. But by making itself look like The Big Short, it obviously makes you think about the Big Short, and it just isn't as good in terms of the characters, the story. Like we are really focused in on Paul Dano, who plays this guy, roaring Kitty, who sort of kicked
off the whole thing. There's a great cast around him, but they're pretty two dimensional, and you might be wondering why I'm recommending this one. I didn't love it. It's because even though I didn't think it sort of nailed what it was trying to do, it made me so angry in terms of like, this is the David and
Goliath story. They are not hiding the fact that this is about the little guys who just used the tools they had, and that was the internet, and like TikTok and Reddit to take on the big, evil, greedy hedge fund bros. And that is kind of true. Like that is what happened. And then the rules were changed and they're all kind of screwed over. And I walked out being like, that wasn't an amazing movie, but I feel something, right?
And that's like a good experience to have. And there's a lot of movies you watch and you're like, what was the point of that? What were they trying to say? This was entertaining. It was like a fun way to spend a couple of hours. And if it helps spark or reignite this, like big question of how this is really my theme of this pod. The system is rigged at this point in your life.
Yeah.
And my entire life. Then I think that's like, that's good. That's good for a movie to do that. So it's like a fun hang movie, I think, like if you're looking for a couple of hours to kill at the movies or when it comes on streaming, so I think it's worth watching. I think it'd be fun to do a pod with you guys when we talk about like, this genre of like, finance film, like Wolf of Wall Street, dumb Money, maybe that's something we can do when the next one comes out.
Yes. And there are some good. Oh, well, there are some. Okay documentaries about this as well that are out at the moment. If you want to do extra viewing, can I just say, speaking of you feeling things I rewatched Past Lives, I think it's now out to stream and all I can think about the whole time was wondering if this was where you cried. Like at which point you got the feels and it was in my head the whole time. One moment in particular, at the end,
I was like, it was definitely that. It was that line.
Which which bit? I can tell you, you can say it and I'll tell you whether it was the moment.
Was it when he said something like, it's at the end, he's getting into the cab, she's going back. And then he says something like, maybe in our future lives as well, or something like that, you.
Got it, you got.
It. I knew.
And then I was thinking about what you would have been thinking about when you felt those things. Anyway, it was thriller. You've ruined the film for me.
I love to feel. I love to feel in movies.
Is that.
A crime?
That is not a crime? Eating a sausage roll in movies is a crime.
Not paying for a sausage.
Stealing a sausage roll is a crime, not eating one.
I just wanted to leave it with two things. We talked about what like, obviously The White Lotus has been delayed until 2025. And so we're not sure what the next big prestige TV show will be. And and also possibly what we might be able to focus on as a podcast, although I do have and I've been let down by this show before, but I'm holding out hope. January 14th we are getting True Detective Season four.
Oh yeah.
So that will star Jodie Foster Collie race. And I think like True Detective season one was obviously unreal. It. Season two was really weird. Season three was good again. So I'm hopeful. Season four. You know this is HBO. Like we obviously know that they make some mistakes like with the idol and stuff. But yeah, potentially at the start of 2024 we could have at least a taste tester of prestige TV until, you know, I don't know whatever.
Mel Danes, the next prestige TV. The Queen's Gambit season five.
That's what you said.
There were two things. What's the other thing.
I totally forgot. So that's the end of the point today.
All right, a good time to leave it there, guys. Thank you so much. This episode of The Drop was produced by Cheong. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share it with a friend! I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week!