Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell, Mel Cambrai, how things goes pretty good.
Yeah. So far so good.
Happy days here at the moment. How about you?
I'm a bit overwhelmed. There's a enormous amount of like, activity happening as we get towards the end of the year. As you guys know, I'm not the best planner and organiser of life and a lot of shows happening. I feel like this is like a post-Covid thing. There's such a backlog of like artists who want a tour Australia, and you used to have like 2 or 3 big name acts here and now. It's like every weekend there is something happening, like, I'm going to go see Christina
Aguilera this weekend. That is pretty exciting. GI pole, one of my favorite artists of all time, is coming to do Melbourne shows in the next couple of weeks. Zach Bryan is coming. There's a lot happening. I'm getting kind of both excited and quite stressed about the amount of things going on in life.
What's your favorite Christina Aguilera song?
I mean, Genie in a bottle. I think it's just like the the one that stands out. Also, I think I've said this before to you guys, my very first album ever was the Moulin Rouge soundtrack. So Lady Marmalade, that's a great one too.
I have found that without fail, if you put come On over on at a party, then you're a fucking legend.
Yeah. That is so good. Oz, what's your kind of. I know we like to talk about when we see things out, the etiquette surrounding it. Or at least what's your what will be your concert going etiquette at Christina Aguilera? Like, are you going to be out of your chair? Will you be singing out loud or just mouthing, what's your kind of vibe?
It's a really good question. This one is going to be a pretty stoic, chill vibe because I am also there in a, I guess, like slightly reporting capacity. So Christina's been brought out to Australia as part of this program by the Victorian government called Always Live with a pay artists like a lot of money to come to Melbourne or to Victoria and play one off shows. There's been a little bit of like discussion about the merit
of bringing Christina Aguilera out. I'm very interested to see how many tickets have been sold, like what the vibe is, what the demographic is, whether this is like a good bang for buck in terms of government art spending. So I'll be there like, you know, like nodding along but a little bit like.
With the discerning.
Unfolded, surveying the landscape, nodding with.
A side eye.
Exactly, exactly. But, you know, maybe it'll go off and I'll just have to, you know.
Release the genie in your bottle.
Exactly.
Is she like, is this a menu log involved in this? Isn't she?
Like, it's a really good question, Thomas. I don't think Menulog are involved in the show, but as she's here, she seems to be double dipping a little bit and is like, cool. The money I'm getting to perform from the Victorian government's not enough. I may as well shoot a menulog ad as well. So she's really making the most of a trip down Under.
Yeah, see, that's a woman who knows how to plan a life.
Yeah, she is not double booking.
Well, I look forward to sharing my review next week on the show. Probably. But today we've got a big one. We're going to discuss one of the most divisive films I'll say of the years. So far it is Saltburn Emerald Fennell's follow up to Promising Young Woman. We're also going to cover the second episode of The Curse, which is quickly becoming one of the weirdest, most fascinating and, to be honest, insane TV shows I think we've seen so far in 2023. And on our Impress Your Friend segment.
Sorry to step on this one a bit. We're going to touch on the latest season of The Crown. I just thought I'd sizzle that one, because I know a lot of people are very excited for this season. Starring Elizabeth Debicki, Australia's own wonderful, wonderful actress as Princess Diana. But first guys, we're going to talk about politicians. And boy, do they love to be relatable. Did you guys catch
the Good Weekend cover story? The profile on Jim Chalmers, the federal Treasurer, this past weekend I did.
I was very like I mean, look, I'll be honest, the headline got me. It was like, he loves hip hop, the Broncos. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is just like me. Yeah. So yes, I was I was pretty much hooked in from the get go.
And you're famously always explaining inflation to everyone.
Exactly. And you know, what was the current cost of living crisis which we can get into. And the stage three tax cuts. It just felt like a timely read. Yeah.
And as with all good profiles, I felt like it was all in the details in this one. Like the idea that he can't just have a square of chocolate, he has to have the whole block. He's kind of compulsion about squeezing the most out of every day, looking at the clock all the time. I loved all the details from it.
Well, just to reassure listeners, we are not going to be talking about Jim Chalmers economic policy or the stage three tax cuts. The bit that stood out to me in the piece, which was written by the wonderful Deborah Snow. Same with you, Thomas. The the kind of like headline which referenced his. Love of hip hop, basketball and the Broncos. And I'm like, okay, this is going to be interesting. Let's see how this guy pulls off being the cool, fun like youngish treasurer. So he was described in the
profile as a hip hop aficionado, right? I'm like cool, cool. You know, I'm pretty into hip hop myself. This is fun. Let's let's see what this goes. I wonder what he's into. Turns out, you know, when he listed his favorite hip hop acts of of all time, there was the Notorious B.I.G. AKA Biggie Smalls. There was two Pac and there was Snoop Dogg, which are all in high rotation Jim Chalmers playlist,
according to the piece. I mean, my initial reaction to that was, it's like if you Wikipedia like popular hip hop acts that like the three biggest hip hop artists of all time, particularly in the 90s, like, not not that surprising or interesting from from Jim there.
Yeah. I don't know if those three make you in aficionados.
Like if he had.
Said one fall that would have been that would have been something.
Yeah it did. It did feel a bit like a credibility grab or something. And I just think it's so funny because he goes on about Biggie Smalls. That seems to be Biggie and Tupac, I think. Obviously famous famously rivals rest in peace to both. But like the fact that he he loves those two so much, it's just so funny because like, he's this guy from Logan City, which actually has produced some pretty good hip hop acts itself,
but like, I just can't quite see it. And then also I thought, it's quite funny because, you know, like he talks about Biggie Smalls a lot and stuff and just like trying to imagine him like bumping Biggie Smalls like in Parliament House. Like, is he playing like mo money, mo problems and just looking at the fucking budget like, what's going on?
I also worry that he's setting himself up for a gotcha moment. Like it just takes, you know, a small question that a basic hip hop aficionado, like both of you would know the answer to, to kind of unravel this personality?
Well, Mel, I'm so glad you brought that up because the gotcha moment is coming. They Got Your Moment is coming on this podcast right now. Don't you worry about that. Don't you worry about that. It's not the first time this profile that Chalmers has talked about his love of hip hop. It's not the first time it's been reported either.
In another piece in the Herald from March by a political reporter, James Mazzola, it was reported that Chalmers was a big hip hop guy and again mentioned Tupac and Biggie, but this time it also mentioned Jay-Z and NAS. Like, I guess that's page two when you look at them as rappers. Also famously rivals. Is there a rapper from the 90s that Chalmers doesn't like? I feel like he's just listing every single rapper who had a hit.
I do think it was weird that he like, left out Eminem. I know Eminem is more of like a 2000 rapper, but he's probably the other one in that set. But Eminem is like a bit more like, I don't know, I guess he's still kind of more relevant and alive than being in Tupac. I mean, maybe.
Ladies would have been nice too, don't you think?
Yeah. That's true. So I mean, who are your favorite female rappers? Oh, where do I start anyway?
He's your gotcha moment.
I mean, there's Lena, we're talking about Lady Marmalade, Lil Kim, you know, she's she was of that era from from Brooklyn, I think. Yeah.
But yeah, it was very funny and I guess like his appearance on Q&;A.
Oh my God, I'm glad you mentioned this. So in, in in my research, I spent a lot of this week trying to figure out, I guess, the the true origin story of our treasurer's hip hop obsession. And he did on an episode of Q and A, I believe, earlier this year list even more rappers he likes. I think he was asked a question about like whether it was appropriate to like hip hop because of, you know, the lyrics and whatever. And, you know, to his credit, he defended it and talked about why he thought it
was a good and valid musical genre. So he listed all the ones we've mentioned. He also talked about the fact he grew up listening to Run-DMC and the Beastie Boys. So I guess that's like, you know, two of the biggest artists from the 80s as well. We're getting like the chronology of Jim Chalmers is, you know, discovery of rap music. But he mentioned a couple of Australian rappers, which was pretty interesting. The first one was Illy and his favorite Aly song, Same Number, Same Hood, which samples
Biggie Smalls Juicy. So it's just like every he catches a glimpse of biggie. He's like, I love that. I love that. He also mentioned one of our favorite acts, Thomas Spit Syndicate. Yes, in a West's own shout out to our guy Nick Lupi, one day Sundays reunited on the weekend. Very exciting for them. That was cool to see him shut them out. But you mentioned Logan City rappers. Thomas. Like there's a great hip hop crew out of Logan
City called Enemy No. Many enterprise hasn't made it to Jim Chalmers playlist.
Yeah, weird because like, you know, Logan City proud. And he obviously has an awareness of Australian hip hop. So I mean, look maybe deeper in the playlist once he goes through like, you know, the two park early era and all the B stuff. There's some enemy there. But it's funny. Because on Q&;A they eventually said him like, what is your absolute favorite hip hop song of all time? And husband? What does he say?
He says, it's this kills me, man. I've got to say, this is the bit where it's old. This is like the icing on the cake. The cherry on top, his favorite song of all time, is a song by Tupac. It is called changes. Right? And this is so funny. Not because the songs are good. Don't get me wrong, I love this song. Honestly, it's probably my favorite Tupac song. It's probably one of my favorite hip hop songs of all time, but I do think this is where the
gotcha bit comes into it. Melle I do think it is weird to admit to this song being your favorite when you are one of the most powerful men in the country with the ability, with literally the waving of a finger, the signing of a document with a pen, the ability to transform the lives of millions of people incarcerated in the prison system, struggling with poverty, racial problems. Obviously, Jim Chalmers can't fix every single thing, but he's in
a very powerful position as the treasurer of Australia. Like, should we talk about this song and unpack why exactly this is so weird?
Absolutely.
So this is how this is how changes opens, right? I see no changes. Wake up in the morning and I ask myself, is life worth living? Should I blast myself? I'm tired of being poor. And even worse, I'm black. My stomach hurts so much I'm looking for a purse to snatch, right? That sets up the whole premise of
this song, which is about generational poverty. It's about the marginalization of black people in America, the overlapping socioeconomic factors with race, the fact that people are forced to turn to crime to put food on the table. Great. Chalmers is like 1617 when he's listening to this, he's like, yeah, this is awesome, man. Like the worlds fuck, we've got to fix the system. He's still saying that's his favorite song when he's the Treasurer of Australia. That's wild to me, I think.
Yeah, I mean it is absolutely crazy. And I think also more importantly for me, it's like changes is the song that's your favorite Tupac song when you don't know many Tupac songs?
Yeah. Also true.
Like I know that you just said it's your favorite and I know that you know Tupac, but.
For me, because I'm like so into the material analysis of Tupac, I'm like, this is good.
Shit. Yeah. But this that's like kind of hip hop. What I want. It's like saying, oh, my favorite Eminem song is like the real Slim Shady. It's just kind of says to me, oh, like, I love Kanye because Gold Digger is so great. Like, it just says to me that maybe he's not as much of like, a park guy as he pretends to be. And like, you know, someone's put him on a spot. He's been like, yeah, changes. 100% changes. That's mine. Yeah, I feel like.
He'd say that and he'd say, California girls, right?
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So yeah, I don't know. It's just very funny. And maybe I do feel for him a little bit because it is a tricky area. Like if you're a politician, it's, it's big, like big areas for you to slip up. And maybe he really is a hip hop fan, but as soon as you say like it's a baiting question, you know, like as soon as you give an answer, everyone's going to be like, are you just saying that to be cool?
Yeah, I agree, and I think you're being too hard. Like it's easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to make fun of a white guy in his 40s who's pretty clear cut for liking hip hop. Like, that's so obvious. And also this dude here, he's on a one for a documentary saying we don't appreciate hip hop enough. We need hip hop more in the mainstream. White people
don't appreciate it. Someone takes a huge public platform and they are saying, I like hip hop music, and then you throw them under the bus like, look, isn't it good to have a treasurer who at least says the lyrics mean something to people and to him than to have police in New South Wales, a government in New South Wales who is like, this is just about crime. Like you should be celebrating that he's on a platform. Well, I.
Think I mean, look, there's a valid point there, Mel. I think if Jim Chalmers was to unite his love of this genre of music and the artists that he says he loves, who went through similar kinds of police repression, if he was to unite those instincts with the enormous power he wields to perhaps say something about the ongoing censorship of hip hop in Australia right now, I would pat him on the back. I would applaud him for
doing so. But when he doesn't want to do that, but wants to get the cred for saying he loves the song like changes, which, by the way, also includes the line it ain't a secret. Don't conceal the fact that the penitentiary is packed and it's filled with blacks. Like, I mean, that's a lyric that resonates in Australia, which has a high incarceration rate of indigenous people. Then America does of blacks. Like, does Jim Chalmers want to raise the age, for example? I don't know and has this
how about this one, Mel? You know, pretty topical right now. It's a war on the streets and the war in the Middle East instead of a war on poverty. They've got a war on drugs so the police can bother me. I mean, again, is Jim Chalmers suggesting that we need to change the way that we police and treat drug crime and instead maybe invest more on lifting people out of poverty? I don't think he is. I don't think, you.
Know, just because you like a song doesn't mean you back every lyric. Also, like it's not that easy. You think like systemic inequality. The treasurer can fix that with one sign of his pen. And I will say, I don't think I literally.
Mel. I'm sorry. I think I do, I think I do. I don't think I could. You could. I think the treasurer kind of can, I think.
I think also I feel like Barack Obama. You're holding him to the same standard. He wasn't a flawless president. And he was. He always put out his kind of cultural list of favorite songs, TV shows, books. Did we go through that and say, oh, you liked this Lauren Groff book, but did you action the kind of moral meaning behind that?
I don't know if you know much about me, but I absolutely do do that every every year, every year Obama puts out his list. I'm like, oh, you say you like this, but what about the politics of it? Yeah. Look, okay. Fair enough. I mean, like the other politician, when you think about their obsession with music is clearly Anthony Albanese, like he's someone I mean, for the record, I think his love of music is very genuine. I don't think elbow's lying about, like, all the random pub in, like,
punk stuff that he loves from the Brisbane scene. There is obviously some kind of weird clashes. Like he says he loves Bruce Springsteen and Midnight Oil and it's just like, okay dude again, now you're the Prime minister. Like, you can do the things that these guys have been singing about for decades and decades, I think. Look, to your point, it's not a hanging crime. It's not like they should
be obliterated for this stance. It's just this funny disconnect between these Gen X guys who grew up with punk music or pretty radical hip hop, and think that they still connect to that in some way, and maybe they don't even realize the disconnect between now being some of the most powerful people in the country. I just think
there's a world in which you have politicians. You've got the prime minister and the treasurer who grew up on lefty rock and like pretty radical hip hop and what their politics are now and what they espouse kind of couldn't be further from that. It's pretty interesting to me.
I think that I think is the funniest. I can just imagine, like the Parliament House, like Christmas party. I know Jim Chalmers is sober now and if he has one, he has 100, so he won't be drinking. But like I could just see a full blown Kendall moment like L to the OG. Yeah. What's the jacket on? He's like, it was all a dream. And everyone's like, yeah, Chalmers.
Chalmers.
And like, I completely agree with you about the level of posturing. This probably is like, this is a government that wants to present themselves as young and in touch and remarkably different to what has come before. So like, it's not like I don't think that this is an act of branding for the Labour Party and for Chalmers.
All right. Let's move on and talk about movies. That's what people are here to listen to. Saltburn, the second feature film by Emerald Fennell following 2020s Promising Young Woman, stars Barry Keoghan, our own Jacob Elordi, Rosamund Pike, Richard E Grant great stacked cast in this film have been excited about it for a while. It was kind of getting touted as having some Oscar buzz when it was first unveiled. It's a psychological thriller slash black comedy, I guess.
It's set in England in 2006. It follows a young university student, Oliver, played by Kieran, who becomes obsessed with his very, very wealthy schoolmate Felix, played by Elordi. They eventually, through a series of, I guess, very strategic moves by Oliver, become friends. Soon enough, Felix invites him to spend Summer at his family's very, very lavish estate, which is called Saltburn,
the titular Saltburn. That's where we meet the rest of Felix's family his mum Rosamund Pike, his dad Richard E Grant. Things at that point get pretty weird. Loose, insane, cringey, grotesque, violent, messy. A lot of stuff happens. I want to keep most of our conversation around this film spoiler free. And then I think at the end of that we'll go into a bit of a spoiler section because. I think we need to talk about some of the things that that
are in this movie. Before I go too deep on on my thoughts on this film, I want to hear from you guys. How did you how did you find Saltburn?
And I'm grieving. I'm grieving the film that I think this could have been, but it wasn't. I'm if you on paper, this film is it's everything for me. I love campus novels. I love summer vacation stories. And I love kind of the idea, you know, Brideshead Revisited, This Side of Paradise. These are some of my favorite novels. And this film just it was all over the place and it didn't deliver. And I feel it had all these right ingredients, but it just couldn't get them into
some kind of coherent story. In saying that, I think there is still a lot to like about this film, and I think it's still worth watching, and it's still an enjoyable watch, even if it doesn't quite work in the way I feel. It had the potential to work on paper.
Yeah, I just thought it was the definition of like style over substance. And it's really funny because it obviously stars Jacob Elordi, the Australian actor who is like having a moment. I suppose we would. Everyone seems to agree he's going to be starring Priscilla. He's obviously in euphoria. Very tall, attractive man recently spotted at Sydney Airport reading like 50 different books the one time. But it's weird because I couldn't actually couldn't separate. Almost like the hype
around Jacob Elordi and the hype around this film. It all felt like very similar to me. It's like this. You're like, supposed to be dazzled before you even know what you're in for. Like, and Jacob Elordi is this like he's everywhere right now. He's like doing the GQ profiles. He's so good looking. This film looks great. Like it was kind of like I can see why people are walking out being like, great movie because it kind of tricks you like. Everything's there. The music is good, the
people are hot. The scene is amazing. It's an era we all remember. And like, if you're not paying attention, you might get fooled into it. But yeah, I just thought it was like it was quite shallow and it cherry picked it like kind of current buzzy themes without actually doing anything with them.
Yeah, really good points, I think, from both of you. I think, Mel, you put it pretty, pretty aptly. It's like. A movie that seems like it's going to be what you like. It's a high bar, right? Because it either like meets your expectations, which are in your head, which is going to be really hard to meet, or a dozen, in which case you're really disappointed because it was so close to being something you love. And that was that
was kind of what happened with me. Like, this movie is so similar in both premise and execution to The Talented Mr. Ripley, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. And so I think it was it was a hard one for me to, to go into, like liking, because I was going to always compare it to this film that I've got this fascination with. And I rewatched Talented Mr. Ripley after watching Saltburn, just to sort of like make sure that I wasn't being unfair
on Saltburn. But honestly, it became even more clear to me how derivative it is of that film. But it's much less subtle, it's less compelling, it's less interesting. And obviously that's not the only valid reason to dislike it. Like, I'm not just saying it's not good because it's not Ripley. Generally, I thought this film was a mess. I thought it was all over the place. I thought the characters, their motivations didn't make any sense. I thought the plot didn't
really hold together. There was these huge shifts and revelations about what characters are actually trying to do that just did not feel urgent to me at all. And I think, like you said, Thomas, yeah, the style is what is prioritized. Like it is shot beautifully. A lot of the performances are quite good, and at least every main character gets 1 or 2 great scenes where they can really shine and embody the kinds of, you know, almost satires of
the characters that they are playing. But overall, none of that fit together for me. And I think and I'm interested to talk about this with you guys and also Finnell more generally as a director, I felt like this movie was more concerned about how it was going to be received by a particular audience, particularly online, than it was about hanging together coherently as a film. Like there were these scenes in these moments that you can tell that they're like, that's going to go big on TikTok.
That's going to be a great talking point. That's going to be a fun thing people talk about on Tumblr and Twitter. And sure, that's maybe a valid way to make a movie, but that is not what delivers a satisfying kind of two hour long project for me.
Yeah, I almost kind of thought that was like, for now, had all these individual ideas in her mind and all these scenes that maybe she wanted to see on screen that had been bubbling away, all these thoughts and then just tried to glue them all together, because there are really cool moments in this and really well shot scenes, but then they just don't work in this movie. It's like that scene could have been built up to. But you know, the way it was just in there, it
didn't work. It felt flat, it felt funny, but not in a good way. It felt awkward. And I kind of wondered if, like, she just tried to do so much that it all became too much.
I think you're definitely right. I think there were certain scenes where you're like, okay, cool. Like, we know this will get a reaction on TikTok and you can like, you can almost like see the reaction videos, like taking place with some of the more like red hot scenes, but also like we're coming off the back of this, like long trend of eat the Rich, you know, films and TV shows that have been so good. Like we
all love Triangle of Sadness. The White Lotus has been doing it like really sharply for like two seasons, and I feel like Emerald Fennell was trying to jump on that and slightly take it from a different angle. But there is this confusion around like, is this another like satire of the rich? But it's not really. And it just felt like a light jump onto a trend that is possible by.
But then I was even wondering if it was like a satire of the satire at some point, because I was like, are we making fun of the films that do this? Like, is it a satire of Brideshead Revisited in which there is, like, Charles Ryder Goes to Oxford, he meets a famous family, he goes back to their castle. He has relationships with the daughter and the son. Like, I was like, are we making fun of these films? Have we got so meta now that that's what's happening?
But I don't actually think that was it at some point that just crossed my mind. But then I don't really think it worked effectively on that.
I think that speaks to the confusion of the movie, and I'm not totally convinced that Finnell knew what she was trying to say across. I think if you read her, it's always difficult because, you know, I really enjoy it when directors don't telegraph what they're trying to do. I think there's something really interesting in discovering yourself and the ambiguity around it. She has been pretty upfront in interviews that she is trying to satirize the rich. And, you know,
Rosamund Pike is pretty, you know, open about that. That's what this movie is trying to do. I don't think that really works. Like there is a third of this movie, which is a kind of comedy of manners sort of thing. When Barry Coon's character goes to Saltburn and oh, Rich people don't know the names of their butlers and they eat food. So Wheatley sure, great. Like, cool. That's not
something new or exciting we haven't seen before. Richard Grant, Rosamund Pike are particularly good at doing it, like I'll grant you that. But then by the end of the movie and we'll talk about this more in the spoiler section, I think the movie forgets that it's trying to satirize the rich, and who you end up sympathizing with gets pretty messy. A lot of people, though, do like this. Maybe I put up something on my Instagram where I said I really didn't like it, and Emerald Fennell should
go to Director Jail having made this movie. But, you know, a lot of people who I like and respect said, oh, really? Like, I thought this was really fun. I had a really good time in the movie, and I wanted to ask you guys about that, like, what do you think there is to like in this film? And do you think even if we're all a bit, oh my God, that it's still worth people checking out?
Yeah, I had a really weird experience because I went to a screener and it was pretty busy, and there were people like, it was like such an interactive experience. People were like cheering and like, woo! And there was like this big group of girls having like the fucking best night of their like completely different experience to me. And I guess there are a lot of scenes in the film that warrant that, like there are some kind
of like shocking, provocative scenes. But again, it's like, I don't know, I don't want to say that these people didn't get the film on the level that I did, even though I am very smart. But like, they stretch. Yeah, I do love hip hop, but like, yeah, I think that some people are just going in and being like, oh,
this is really fun. And we said this kind of earlier today, like off this film, I would like way more, I reckon if it just dropped onto Netflix and I watched it on like a Saturday afternoon, I'd be like, that's pretty good Netflix film. But to go into it with all the context of like Saltburn, one of the buzziest films of the year, like, is there going to be an Oscar? Like, is this the new Talented Mr. Ripley? Like, there was so much hype around it that you can't, like,
leave that out. So that really changed things for me. Yeah, I don't know. People just seem to be people wanted so badly to like this film. And I think they're like letting themselves do that.
Okay, what would I tell people say that people would like about this film?
Also, Jacob Elordi like hot as fuck.
Yeah, it's true. But then like, I swear, at one point there was a shot where he had like carpe diem tattooed on his arm, and I was like, I don't think a genuine Oxbridge guy is getting carpe diem tattooed onto his arm. Like, there are a few things about his character that threw me, too. I think I liked the I like, I like attractive people lazing, attractive rich people lazing by the pool in summer with their linen shirts open. Yeah, that's what.
We all want for our lives, obviously.
Yeah, yeah.
But I also, I agree with you. I'm sorry I asked you a question, Mel, and I'm interrupting you, but, like, I just the way you described it, I was like, yeah, I will, I will tell people to watch Call Me By Your Name in that instance, you know, which is like hot people wearing linen shirts, lazing by the pool. A lot of sexual tension done masterfully, unlike this one.
Yes, and I do watching it. I think we spoke about it after, like, I reckon Emerald Fennell's watch Call Me By Your Name a few times.
Yeah, for sure there are. And I think actually in all of this there are like derivative elements, as we were saying before, like there's this kind of pretty incredible scene with the maze. And I was like, oh, Orlando did this way better. Like, that was a great main scene. And then there's some incredible party shots at this castle. And then I was like, oh, Baz, do this better in Great Gatsby. So like, there are all these scenes
which are pretty remarkable in themselves. But yeah, if you don't want to go see this film, we can give you a watch instead option for most of them.
Yeah. We basically have named like six films and books that are more compelling and interesting than this one. The things that people said they liked, like, I think a lot of people enjoy that I spoke. I mean, this is a funny review, isn't it? I'm just sort of passing what other people said. I think it's because it's unusual for the three of us to really not vibe it. So I don't want to seem too dismissive of the
fact that people do seem to like it. A lot of people liked some of the big swings that are in this movie, and I don't really want to spoil them, but there are a couple of like, sex scenes or sex adjacent scenes that you know, you don't often see on on screen. And I think, you know, in a year where there's been a lot of annoying discourse around, do movies still ever need sex scenes? I think it's nice to see a director and actors up for doing
something pretty interesting and wild. But again, like to me, there was no cohesion to them. Like it was just I want a scene that will like go ballistic on Twitter. For this reason, I want a scene that will be like, tick tock for this reason. And maybe that's just where we're at. And, you know, final is not like Gen Z, but I think she's very across where the cultural conversation is and how stuff is consumed. I think this movie also has one of these things that you see in
a lot of films made for younger audiences. Now I call it kind of like the YouTube effect, right? Like if you watch a YouTube video, the first 30s or a minute is basically like this montage snapshot of the whole thing. So you're like, I know what's going to happen, and I'm hooked, and I want to see it play out over a period of time. This movie has that. It starts with all of this stuff that you know
is going to play out. It kind of tells you the end before you've even seen it because of the structure of it, and then you're kind of hooked and you're on your way. And I think that goes to your point on this about maybe it's more of a streaming hit because as you're flicking through, you don't want a slow burn film because you're being, like pulled in so many different directions. You want to sit down on Netflix within a minute you're like. Wow, this movie is
going to have like violence, death, sex, potty scenes. Let's watch this whole thing unfold again. Like that's a legitimate way to tell a story. But it's not a way that I really enjoy watching, particularly when I'm sitting down in the cinema. That makes sense. Yeah, I.
Completely agree with you on that. And I think if I really loved A Promising Young Woman, and I think if we didn't come to this with such hype around Emerald Fennell as a director and what she did with that film, and we just stumbled upon this one night on Netflix, like, I'm sure that our kind of criticisms would be less less strong because maybe we would would have had lesser expectations of it.
Yeah, for sure. And Promising Young Women was such a great film. And the thing is, like, there are. So I mean, obviously she won like the best original Screenplay for that. Like it's famously good, but like, there are so many things from that film where I'm like, oh, she really has tried to recreate some of that, but like, it's turned out poorly. So like, yeah, I do. I think it's impossible with this film to ignore, like the context around which it comes in to the viewing landscape
because it has been so massively hyped. She's coming off winning, you know, like an Oscar for her debut film.
She's also nominated for Best Director for her debut, which is extraordinary.
Yeah, she created killing Eve like she's she hasn't really slipped up yet. Insert into that Barry Keoghan like star of one of the best films last year in Banshees of Inisherin. Jacob Elordi hottest actor in the world right now Rosamund Pike. Like, it's just got every element. And so it's set itself up, I think, for the fail. And that's why I also think, like so many of the reviews, which I would say the reviews are right now,
like probably mixed skewing bad. So many of them are like, oh damn, like such high hopes.
Yeah, I think that's right. I think Promising Young Woman did so well commercially and critically. People really excited to see where she takes things next. Maybe this is going to sound like really mean the first time I watch promising a woman. I really liked it, and every time I've watched it since then, I start to really question and wonder what exact point she's trying to tell. I think that's a good looking movie with a great performance at its core from Carey Mulligan and a couple of
great set pieces like that. Stars a blind sequence in the convenience store is really fun. But yeah, I just don't think that movie holds up as well as it did when it first came out in 2020. And I think you're right, Tom, is that she's leant into the worst bits of that film for this one, or just tried to recreate moments rather than have something that you
really thought through. Like, one of the things I wanted to talk about with Saltburn is this movie set in 2006, and when that flashed up at the start, I thought, oh, this is interesting. Like, I wonder if she will use that time frame to talk about what social media or technology was like, or create some particular sequence or plot around 2006 versus 2023. Maybe she'll talk about like the
political environment at the time, like there at Oxbridge. Like it's reasonable that they'd be debating, you know, a bomber or whatever, like who knows? And none of that was
in this movie. The only reason it seemed to be set in 2006 was so she could have the characters reading Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and have a montage with Mgmt and Arcade Fire tracks and like, I like those songs, I was there, I had a good time, you know, singing along to Florida's Low, but it felt like a really lazy attempt to activate, like millennial nostalgia. And again, just like throw some red meat to people on social media. I did not find that to be smart or good at all.
Yeah, I found it really weird that there was no like social media in this because, I mean, we all kind of grew up in that era, and like, none of these people are, you know, even you maybe see one phone once or something like a few times, maybe like there are phones mentioned, but there's no talk of like Facebook or like Myspace or anything like that. And yeah,
loves hearing the killers. Loved hearing Block Party. I did see a funny thing where Emerald Fennell said in an interview that she specifically chose not to, like, include Arctic Monkeys because they're still too relevant. She only wanted to include bands that, like, didn't make it out of the era, which I thought was quite funny. But yeah, it was very odd that it was kind of like ostensibly set in 2006, but then also it felt at times like
the family was from like the 1930 or something. Like it was weird.
Yeah, I agree with you was I reckon it was a way of nostalgia, gives everything a golden glow, and it was a way of trying to bring the audience that glow through the soundtrack. And I also wonder if it was just a technical problem to like. She wanted to create a sense of a close community. So you put it not in now you put it in a time where we kind of can't really remember exactly what was going on then, but just the feeling of it,
which was all of our heydays of our youth. But then she doesn't have to put it too far back in the past, that she has to deal with historical inaccuracies to too much of an extent. So I wonder if it was just an easy way to get around that problem and also get the nostalgia effect.
Yeah, I actually find this trend of setting things in the 90s or 2000. It's really grating on me now. And. You know, I like dairy girls. I think Dairy Girls is a great story. Shows like class of nine, like, there's lots of reasons why you would choose to do that, but I think it's gone on for a really long time. And now I think it's a crutch. And I think what it reveals is a lot of directors or storytellers
want to tell. A discrete story and not really grapple with the world that they are in at the moment. And I think that is a shame. I think, like, of course, Emerald Fennell doesn't have to make something I wanted to make. But if she is a lauded, Oscar nominated, Oscar winning writer director who wants to make a movie about class relations in the year 2023, I think it's a cop out to like, rewind this back to 2006, not have to grapple with anything happening in the world
right now. Basically, strip a movie of any kind of real politics just to tell a story about a guy who is confusingly jealous of and angry with. This other guy that he now goes to the house like, that's a really bad summary of the movie, but I but I really I think that's when I try to think about it. How would I describe what this movie is about? And I really struggle with doing that. And I want more from people like her, like I think they can
do more. Killing Eve was really good. There were bits of Promising Woman that I still think are really good, and I want to see smart people, given the resources to tell us about the world that we live in now. Like that is what really good art and cinema does. And it was. I nearly groaned out loud when it said oh six. I was like, oh really? Like, why are we 20 years ago? Like, who cares?
Yeah. Which was so different to Promising Young Woman in a way which spoke felt like it was it was trying to engage with the MeToo moment. Yeah. And there was I think there was a missed opportunity because there is one kind of main person of color in this, the Farley character. And she kind of danced. They dance around the fact that everyone else is white, and the system is set up to benefit white people, but she just wouldn't really go there. There fully.
Do we want to talk about the fact that Fennell is herself like a very, very, very, very wealthy person? Well, I.
Was going to say, like, her father is like a super famous jeweler, and he's like an old boy from Eton, which is like her father's.
A jeweler and her name is Emerald. Like, that's a bit.
I know, but like, she's. Yeah, like she's like. And she grew up in, like, Hammersmith and Chelsea, like, these are like posh area.
She played Camilla on The Crown.
She did. And then her mother this is I found quite funny research. Her mother, Louise Fennell, is an author and she wrote this book called dead Rich, which is about Britain's favorite rich family. They are glamorous, rich, very, very rich, and they live in a series of exquisite houses, but they hide a darker reality. So it's like she's written like a shit version of Saltburn. I think her books are not like, you know, they're not the type of books that Mel would read. Mel would put them
on the free table at work. But yeah, like she's from like, you know, I guess to use a Saltburn term, she's from good stock, you know. And so that's what I think again. And maybe we should kind of get into semi spoiler territory. Now when we look at like what this film is trying to say, the messaging, it even gets murkier or like clouds up further when you look at where she comes from and like, who is the butt of this joke?
Yeah, let's do that. Let's, um, let's flag if you haven't seen Sopa and we will ruin key scenes and the ending. Now come back in five minutes for our conversations about the curse and various other things. Okay, so maybe let's just start with like our thoughts on those scenes before we talk about the end.
Will you describe them to us first?
I'm happy to. I'm not queasy about talking about this sort of stuff. We can.
Go. Well. How many? There's three scenes would do. One each. Yeah.
Cool.
All right. I'll see you get first go.
I'll do the first one, I guess. So there is a scene where Oliver Barry, Ken's character, has a romantic encounter with Felix's sister. She's trying to seduce him. She's wearing like a see through nightie, and he goes to find her underneath his window and they start fooling around and she says, oh, you know, it's like that time of the month. And he's like, why do you think that bothers me? And they kind of go for it,
you know? And it gets pretty bloody. And his face is covered in blood and his hands are covered in blood. And he rubs the blood on her face and it's on his face. My issue with this scene is not that it's a sex scene. It's not that it's even
a particularly like, kind of graphic sex scene. Fair play, the movie that you and I talked about earlier this year, Thomas, that has a similar scene where there's a sex moment between two characters and she's on a period and it's a little bit weird, but for some reason, that one I found to be like quite sexy, quite funny, quite cheeky, like, like really interesting way of doing it. This just seemed like Finnell was like, I'm going to shock people for
the sake of shocking people. This doesn't really make sense in the context of Barry Cullen's character. Like he has spent the first half of this movie kind of being an incel, like not being able to get girls, which is sort of why he's enamored with Felix. Women don't want to hang out with him. They make fun of him. Then all of a sudden he's this, like, super sexually fucked up guy, kind of like the weekend from the
idol who's just like, let's go. So incoherent character motivation through a scene that I didn't think was fun or sexy and just there to shock. That's my take on that.
One and completely agree with you that his character is completely inconsistent, and the development of that character is it doesn't make any logical sense. And that is one of the real flaws of this. I just found it.
Like. Period six is the thing.
Oh, dear.
Here we go. No, but it is the thing that people like. It's a big talking point. And again, I feel like Emerald Fennell has purposely included this, but like. Yeah, what you said is so true. I mean, like the fair play thing, it did like, make it kind of like sexy and interesting, like way to frame that and make people think about it. Whereas this was like it was like she was trying to gross you out with it.
Like in terms of it was very especially when, like, he's putting the blood on her face because he's like, I mean, let's be honest, he's like going down on her. It's not just like they're having sex. And then he puts the blood on her face and it's so like they linger so long on that scene. And I think there's like, you know, there's kind of like all sorts of stuff going on. And it it forces you to
just be grossed out by something that's not grow. It's like it's like it's doing the inverse of what I think she was trying to do. That's how I read it.
No, I think that's right. And like, we'll talk about this when we get into these other specific scenes. But overall this movie is like very anti-sex in a way. Like there's something very not sexy or like romantic about any of it. And it's kind of the same Promising Young Woman. Obviously, the politics of that movie are clear, but there's a lot of sex in that movie. It's all pretty violent and anxiety inducing and like, abrupt and cold.
And it's the same in this movie. Even when characters are seemingly attracted to each other, you end up feeling repulsed and repelled by it. And I wonder what's going on there with her. Like why she seems so. Trying to make the point that, like sex is bad and like you should feel grossed out by it. Which brings us probably to the next scene. Yes.
So the next scene, that's one of the scenes of the film. We've kind of been set up that all of our Barry Kierans character is obsessed with Felix Jacob Elordi. And, you know, they've arrived at Saltburn. They're they're in two separate bedrooms, but sharing a joint bathroom. And one night before Oliver goes to bed, he spies Felix in the bath and he can hear some kind of rustling. And as we follow all of his character, we see Felix
pleasuring himself in the bath. Like Felix is masturbating. He comes, and then he leaves the bathroom, and then all of his character creeps in, kind of like runs his hands through the bathwater. The bath water is like running down the drain, and then he basically slurps up the remnants of the bathwater, which is mixed with Felix's ejaculate. And again, like the camera zooms in so close to watch Barry
Keoghan like drinking. This guy's like second hand cum, which is just like, again, like the audience reaction in the screening I was in was just like. Chaos, but like it felt to me. And we discussed this earlier. We talked about Call Me By Your Name and, and I feel like that was an important film for Emerald Fennell that famously had, you know, the peach scene where Timothee Chalamet, like, ejaculates into a peach, but it's like actually pretty beautiful. And like there's something to that.
That's a hot and romantic scene.
Yes. And like you like and does like great PR for peaches. But like you came out of that scene thinking, okay, this is like, I get it. And that was kind of sexy and like, I'm into it. This I felt like was like her version of that. And again, like opposite effect. It was it was like gross. Yeah.
And I don't know if like this one stuck like felt more in character with Oliver than the period sex scene. Like if they were trying to paint a picture of him as kind of a bit.
Yeah, a bit pathetic and obsessed.
Yeah, it did more of that. And I mean, I guess it's just the kind of talented Mr. Ripley. Tom Ripley wearing Dickies clothes taken to the nth degree. Yeah, I don't, but then he also did a lot of tonguing around the drain as well. Yeah. So it did take it a bit far and I just didn't. I also didn't really know what he was getting out of that because like there wasn't that much bathwater left. Like he was really getting the dregs.
I mean, and even I'm glad you brought up Ripley. So there is like a very similar bath scene in that movie where Matt Damon's character, who's obsessed with Jude Law and it's basically Matt Damon, is Oliver and Jude Law as Felix, and they're playing chess and drools in the bath. And Damon says, you know, oh, can I get in? And Jude Law looks at him like disgusted. And there's like this tension. He's disgusted, but he's thinking about it. He's like, no, that's disgusting. And Damon says, well,
not with you in it. And he gets out. And then Damon gets in his bathwater and like, looks at Jude Laws but in the mirror. And that's interesting because you get the same idea. You get this sort of pathetic guy who's obsessed. You get that sense of tension. But it's done quite beautifully and interestingly and sexily. As weird as it is, this movie again, that none of that was there in this scene.
That's true. And then it culminates in this third scene, which I think here we go. This point in the movie, this actually really I kind of laughed out loud. I was like, okay, like, we've gone here.
Yeah, we've lost the plot. Everyone has lost their minds making this movie, watching this movie, what is going on? Yeah.
And it kind of really made me tap out for the last third of the movie because I just thought, yeah, I just didn't really understand it. So this is Jacob Elordi has died. Felix has died at the hands of Oliver Quick. And he is buried. Yeah. He's buried. He's in his grave. The dirt is fresh on the mound. Oliver goes on to it and he's sad. And he lays on the grave very dirty. And he starts to cry.
And I thought, okay, okay. And then he gets a bit cuddly, cuddles the grave, and then he takes off your shirt and I was like, okay, all right, all right. We're going to get maybe we're getting a bit nude here. That's cool. And then alas, we do not stop there. He then I believe, removes his well, he opens his fly, the penis comes out, and then he appears to be. I don't want to call it making love to the grave. He is then having sex with the grave or.
Liking the jerking, I should say the grave, because that's what he's doing. Yeah, he.
Is fucking the grave and like, which is just a mound of dirt at this point. And it is just not a scene that really it was very hard to understand. It went on for a long time. It felt ludicrous and silly, not meaningful, but it didn't feel like it was intentionally meant to be funny. It just felt silly to me.
Yeah, I'm glad you said it went on for a long time. That's the other thing all three of these have in common is that they all go on way too long, like the point's been made. And now it's just like, come on, this is not fun. This is not exciting. This is weird. And it's just dragging.
Yeah. And again, these are the ones that will probably end up like on TikTok and stuff because people will be like, oh my God. And then they'll be like some like 15 year old reacting to the grave fucking scene, and then that'll go viral and like etcetera.
But then like there is some merit directors in holding something back. Right? Like even if she had just stopped at him kind of doing the weird but intimate cuddle of the grave mound, like that would have been enough and probably more poignant than to go all the way.
Out of.
Everyone in this movie. I feel the most sorry for Barry Keoghan because I think he's a really good actor. I think he tries really hard in this movie and final like pushes him to the limit, right? Like drinking the bath water, fucking a grave. That scene at the end where he's nude and you see his penis and he's dancing to murder on the dance floor like he's going for it. And he's like, put in a lot of work. He's pretty ripped in this film. Like, I
think he's trying really hard. I just think all these, the script, the directing cues just do not land at all. And we mentioned at the very start of this convo, this film was getting like Oscar buzz for the script, potentially for the directing, for the performances of Barry that is evaporated. Like no one serious thinks that anyone in this movie is going to get anything. Maybe like in the crafts for production design, for Soul Burn and costuming or something like that. But I feel bad for him.
So do I. And like I feel and I don't know if it was intentional, like, was he meant to be this kind of blank character that we can't really understand the intentions? Because if it was intentional, it didn't work. But otherwise, I do feel like the directing means that
you don't understand why he's doing anything. And like we're talking about Talented Mr. Ripley in that film, they make you understand Matt Damon's motivations so clearly, and we're smitten by Dickie Lord's characters and we understand Matt Damon's resentment, and they build it up slowly and steadily how he kind of falls for Jude Law, how he gets kicked
out of the limelight and then feels resentful. We understand it, but there is just not that consistent, clear pacing and story in this film, so you don't really understand all of it quick at the end of it, which is a shame for for Barry.
Yeah. And I mean, this is what it brings back to the whole messaging of this film. Like, I don't at the end of like when the end credits roll, I kind of felt bad for like, Felix and his family.
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about what happens. Right. So so the start of the film was sort of told that Oliver is the scholarship kid whose parents are really poor. His dad's a drug dealer, his mom is an addict. And he's like, you know, escape that to come to Oxford at the end of the movie, we realized that's all a lie. His parents are just like, seemingly nice middle class people, and he's confected all of this to get close to Felix and like, worm his way in.
It's then revealed that he has been knocking off members of the family one by one to somehow end up with Saltburn. Honestly, none of that makes sense. Like, none of the decisions made make any sense to me. I agree with you, Thomas. Like by the end of the movie, there's a little bit about these rich people being annoying and dismissive of their friends and like a little bit
dismissive to their help. But by the end of it, I'm like, none of these people have done anything bad enough to warrant being killed, that, like some of them are killed in extremely violent ways, and Kaitlyn's character just is revealed to be total psychopath and he wins. And I'm like, I feel sorry for the rich people he killed. So therefore this is not really a satire about them anymore. This is a story about a middle class guy who lied and just killed a bunch of rich people, who
is clearly has something really wrong with him. And if that's the point of the movie, that is a shit point, I'm sorry to say completely.
And the revelation that he's not poor and he seems to just be from quite a nice middle class family where his mum and dad love him and make him birthday cakes and they really want to hear from him and they're really proud of him. Like he's not even got a bad upbringing to kind of explain in a socioeconomic way his actions.
Yeah. And like we've talked a lot about thrillers on this part and like we all love thrillers. But if the big reveal in your thriller is that the main character is a psychopath, but we've been hiding that from you, and now we're going to quickly show you all the times we hid it from you. That's not like a good reveal. Yeah. When that happened towards the end of the movie, we basically get like a, like a 62nd
refresh of different moments from earlier in the film. But we get like, the behind the scenes look to show what Barry Keenan's character really did. Like, you know, these like, engineering different meetings with Felix lies he told like crazy acts from this psychopath that we didn't know was a psychopath. But like, well, of course we didn't know because they were hidden from us. And now you're just, like, giving us all this exposition about it. And the end result is he's just crazy. Yeah, but.
Even if we didn't know, like, you know, we didn't know. For example, he deflated the bike tyre to get to meet Felix. Originally, you got the sense that something was wrong with this character and he was involved. You kind of already knew that. And Finnell then is like, oh, I'm lifting the lid on this just in case. As you thought. He was a good guy. He's a bad guy. I'm like, you think you're a step ahead of us?
But we've figured most of this out, and all the things you're revealing to us now are inconsequential or lame. Because I do like a bit of ambiguity. Like, I felt pretty confident that he was responsible for a bunch of stuff. When it's revealed that he's lying about his family, that's enough of a reveal to understand that he's up to no good. And then being like, not only will we show you killing these people will even show you him. Like using the razor blades will show him putting the
drugs in the champagne. It just. It's deflating rather than like a revelation.
Yeah, definitely the final third, I think. Like, by the time we got to the very last scene of the film features Barry. And is that a prosthetic? I think it might be a prosthetic.
And are you looking at mouth mean?
No, because.
I mean, it might not be. I think it could. I think there was there was.
Some prosthetic chest.
Kind of situation. No.
Yeah. But basically dancing through the House to that great song by Sophie Baxter. But by the time that came, I was just like, I was getting me out here, man.
I loved that scene. Just not in this film. Like, I was like, that's a really cool. I like the idea of it. I like the vibe, I like the moves. I really loved that. And then it just didn't work in this film.
Yeah definitely. It's a nice like again he's taking a big swing to his opponent and it's a fun song and it's a fun saying. It didn't it annoyed me because it's like a waste. It's like if I'm seeing an actor I really like do something that mad and out there. I want it to mean something. And in interviews, finals been like, yeah, I really wanted that to show how like he owned the house, like the house was his now. And I'm like, great. It's not really a metaphor.
If he's literally just naked running around the house, that's you're not kind of showing it as much as you were just telling us that he now owns the house.
Yeah. And he at the end is as evil as the evil people he killed who.
Aren't really that evil.
But yeah.
So maybe she's criticizing the pretension to like, class jump, which is.
I think I think it's really nice, Mel, that you were trying to figure out all the smart things this movie could be about. I'm not convinced it is about any of those things.
Yeah, I think we should all just go home and watch, like, Call Me by your name, Talented Mr. Ripley. Brideshead. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Those are three great movies. If if you're wondering, like, what we're talking about were just boring old people who want to watch old movies. Those. Those are three really good ones to watch. Like, set aside a few hours on a weekend. It hit them all. You have a better time.
What do you reckon Jim Chalmers take would be on Saltburn?
Let's not do that. Well, from something not great to something that I think the three of us are really vibing at the moment. Let's talk about the curse second episode. We covered the first episode last week. This is the new show from Nathan Fielder of The Rehearsal and Nathan For You fame and Emma Stone. The show is getting both weirder and more compelling. In my opinion. The first EP was more. It seemed like an overt satire on
this like strain of home renovation focused reality shows. The second episode, just like, blows everything out of the water. It's like taking aim at the contemporary art world the way that rich white people use, like proximity to art, particularly art made by marginalized people, in this case like Native Americans, to bolster their credentials. There's this crazy subplot that is kind of like a casino heist, but totally absurd. You got you guys still digging this show.
I'm so into the curse. It's fucking it's like batshit crazy. Probably the weirdest thing on TV for like, a long time, even weird by A24 standards. And they do some pretty weird stuff. This is like, it's got. So it's like five different shows in a show.
Yeah, I.
Loved the second episode. I reckon it was better than the first. And I agree, I think it has found and I hope it continues in this way. I think it's found its pacing and its feet way more than it kind of showed in the first, which felt like to, as we were saying last week, felt like two different shows put together. There are just so many good moments in this and like, it's not laugh out loud funny in some ways, but then the moments.
I think I laughed at least once to be honest.
Was a two episode one. I laughed out loud a lot in episode two. I didn't laugh once, but then talking about it with you this morning, I was like, ha ha, that was very funny.
Yeah, like when you think about the moments. One of my favorite moments in this was when the bird hits into her house and it dies. And there's like, as they said in the last episode, there's like no reason for the house to be a reflective surface. Other than that, she's kind of parroting Doug Aitken, the the real artist who designs houses like that. And so it's just so good that, like, they just continuously get birds flying into it and dying, and she's trying to sweep them away
from kind of the picture perfect house. Like there are all these moments like that which I don't know, you don't laugh out loud at the time, but they're so funny and dark and good.
Very much so. I mean, if you told me that, like, it's it's easy because it shows so weird to miss. Just like kind of how smart I think it is and how many different things it's grappling with. Like the first episode being this piss take of the way that reality TV is made, and then going into a strange
psychosexual drama involving this crazy family. If you told me that, then the second episode would largely be focused on the power dynamics between white property developers and native communities, and also like conversations around exploitation and plagiarism in the arts, and how rich people want to collect the work of, like certain marginalized artists to basically use as cover. Like there's two different shows from two different universes, but it
hangs together in this, in this one show. I mean, like as far as plot goes, kind of odd to talk about plot because it feels like nothing really fits together, like there's a pregnancy at the start of it. Emma Stone's character is pregnant. By the end, we realize that it's ectopic and it's not really going to work out for her. So there's a whole layer of like that, and she reveals that she's had abortions in the past, and that's like a bit of a surprise to Asha.
Field is character. So there is like this character stuff going on there. Nathan's character is trying to get a. While from a casino. Were not totally sure what's on this file, but he's using it to kill a story that is going to come out about his wife. That is not good. By giving her the story about this casino that I thought was the funniest bit with the Gatorade like that was that was.
More of the Russell.
That was like the that was straight from the rehearsal playbook. What do you say pours it on the other guy's head, like, and all of that. The way that was all shot was basically just like, like another episode of The Rehearsal.
And a lot of it is shot like it feels like you're in a docudrama or reality thing, and it just blurs that line of like, could the next season of the rehearsal end up just being like, we made
this insane show, and here's how it happened. Like, I would not put it past fielder like he's he was on Kimmel, like doing that interview with Emma Stone where he's wearing those tiny glasses, looking like a beat poet from the 60s and making fun of how Emma Stone can act like he is doing something right now that I don't think we know and we might not find out for a year.
Yeah, that's so true. And I think, like.
People I.
Don't really agree. People keep saying that it's uncomfortable to watch, and I worry that that puts people off of giving this show a go. And I don't think it is uncomfortable to watch, but I do think it is. Maybe the people were saying that because it is so unlike anything else, and we've kind of been lulled into this nice, safe spot on the couch that we like to sit in, and then we've been suddenly given something different. And so it does feel new and fresh, and we don't really
know how to place it and think about it. So I think maybe that's why people think it's more uncomfortable than what it is, though. I get like the scenes are awkward, like they are long and they are dark, and they are kind of pressing on a point repeatedly and giving no mercy. But it still is enjoyable and engaging to watch. Right? Then you have this.
Whole other like basically a short film with Safdies character where he just goes on this weird day and talks about how he basically killed his wife in a car accident when he was shitfaced. It's just like, oh man.
What is happening there? That's a whole different plot where he is on a Tinder date, I guess, and just tells that story and then drives and is too drunk to drive and him and fielder, like, meet in the casino, but don't talk at all. It's like, what the fuck is going on? But it is so interesting. Mel, I think you nailed it. Like, yeah, I think it's just different and it's good and it's smart and it's bold and it's what I think TV should be. I like
could not recommend this more. I'm a bit worried about it being on Paramount Plus. Like I just feel like that's probably one of the smaller networks. There was a bit of chat about, like, this is his first not HBO show, and it was A24 and A24's had a lot of shows distributed by HBO, and, you know, there's some whispers around that. HBO is now owned by, like discovery, which owns HGTV. So the kinds of things that this show is parodying are part of now that HBO and Empire.
And I think that's a bit of a shame, because I think if this was marketed and branded as like an HBO show, it would go insane. But if you're listening to this and you're not sure, get the seven day Paramount Plus trial like give it a crack, it is so worth your time.
Yes. And also during the week, there were some very fun. Osborne, you brought this to our attention. Some very fun interplay between probably the weirdest crossover of the week, some interplay between Emma Stone and Nathan Fielder, and then the cast of Anyone But You starring, I believe her name is Sydney Sweeney.
And.
Glen Powell. Obviously the film shot in Australia, the cast of The Curse like, took the piss out of the promo for anyone about you, and it led to this very funny dialogue between the directors and stuff. So yeah, check that out. You can find on Twitter.
All right, on to our weekly Impress Your Friends segment. I already gave yours away, Mel. So why don't you tell us what you've been enjoying this week, and we can have a bit of a convo about it.
Yeah, and.
It ties in nicely given that Emerald Fennell was Camilla in one of the seasons of The Crown. Mine is the latest season of The Crown, the first four apps of which have dropped on Netflix, and the last will come in December. In this season it's Diana, played by Becky, Australia's own dying. And it's the kind of lead up to that. It's the kind of hours and days before that. And her relationship with Dodi, played by Khalid Abdullah, his father.
Obviously we've still got the monarchy element of it. Look, it copped some bad reviews and then some really bad reviews, particularly from the Guardian. And then I feel like those bad reviews became contagious and everyone was talking about how bad The Crown was. And I've watched all of The Crown. I've always thought it's like solidly middle ground television, like I've always found it interesting because of the historical details and the kind of the actors that are in it.
But it's never been amazing TV. But I did think, oh no, they must have really done something wrong. But when I watched it, I do not think it deserves the heat that it's been copping. I think it's I wonder if it's because being in Australia, we have a slightly different relationship and being a bit younger. We also do to kind of that, to Diana's death.
To the Brits are being a bit harsher on it.
Some elements of the British press I think are being harsher on it, but I.
Don't think it's that.
Bad. I think it's good. I think it's kind of solidly middle ground TV. I don't think it's worse or better than other seasons of The Crown. I think it's pretty gripping, and it was getting criticism for really focusing on the Diana Dodi plotline. But like, that's all I'm interested in. I kind of didn't like The Crown when it went into its little Step Out episodes, which didn't fit into a bigger plot, like I wanted those characters.
I wanted that kind of version of history, and I thought Debicki as Diana was fantastic.
She is very good. I don't like it. I think almost similar to what we're saying before, like the closer we inch to like more recent history, the more easy it is to slip up. Like I think The Crown was at its best in the first two seasons when like we were learning more about like what happened, you know, like a really long time away from us. Whereas now it's like we're in this era that we actually remember, like William and Harry are like in it now. And
I just think there's a cringe factor. I also think, unfortunately, like we've seen Diana on screen a lot of times now in different iterations. So there is like maybe a fatigue. That being said, I think, yeah, I mean.
There were like two Diana movies last year or something. Yeah, yeah, we've.
We've seen it a lot. And one of the Diana movies was really good. Like, and I think Debicki is really good. But I just think generally, you know, and I know that, like, there's been much made of what's to come, which is the ghost of Diana. I mean, she visits Charles, she visits the Queen. And like, I mean, we can all agree in TV land when you have a ghost visiting people, then the show has jumped the shark.
Look, I have to say, I don't think the ghost. I know when you read and you see the ghost is like, you know, you think.
Oh, spooky, I was going.
To say spoilers, but I know everyone knows Diana's dead.
But the ghost element. Did they need it? Probably not. But is it as bad as it sounds reading about it? No, it's not like a hologram kind of ghosty thing. Like it kind of works. Did they need to do it? Could have lived without. It. Doesn't really add that much, but I don't know. I when I read ghost I was like, oh dear. But it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Right?
I'd say a couple of things. Firstly, huge plot for my guy Khalid Abdullah, who burst to prominence playing the head terrorist hijacker in Paul Greengrass United 93, going from that to playing Dodi Al Fayed, you know, dating Princess. And it's pretty cool. It's a representation, folks. It's good. Yeah, I've never been a huge crown head because I, I'm firmly of the camp that this is all like hagiography
like this. Anyone who pretends that this is like an interesting, insightful, critical look at the institution of the royals, I think is getting themselves. It's fine if you want to watch it and like it. That's interesting. They're an interesting family, this interesting drama there. I'm not a huge fan of like the institution of the royal family and didn't enjoy the amount of time and effort going into try to create complexity out of, you know, pretty mundane, boring slash
terrible people. So I only really care about this season if they end up confirming that, like, the royal family assassinated Diana and Dodi because they did not like Diana having relationships with brown guys, and if that's not what this is about, then I don't, I don't care.
I'm so shocked that husbands and royalists. Hi, that one's caught me off guard. If I'm honest.
I don't know why you don't like the institution, though. Why you don't find it interesting. Like you like other big institutions like Disney.
Marvel? Yeah. Why don't you like. What are you talking about? You love the.
Kardashians and what those guys create because it's relevant to the culture, the the royals as an institution. I mean, like, I care enough to know about who the people are, but I think this has been my issue with the Crown and this debate about whether or not it is pro royal or not. I think if you are creating characters and. Story lines, and you are trying to get people hooked in to caring about what happens. You are
humanizing them. I think anyone who pretends that this is like not an attempt, even if at a subconscious level, to create humanity and complexity around extremely powerful individuals who have been responsible for and the beneficiaries of lots of terrible things around the world. I think they kidding themselves. I just don't really want to participate in that ecosystem. I can do a couple of hours, you know, like that Diana movie with Kristen.
Stewart in it.
Yeah, Kristen was really good because that was one an interesting movie. It sort of filmed like a horror film, and it was about how the royals are like horrible people who tried to, like, kill Diana. Great. I'm into that. I just don't think The Crown wants to take those kinds of swings.
You did not impress that particular friends.
I'm excited to hear the take on Napoleon.
No, but.
I'm glad we talked about this because it is a big show and I think lots of people are talking about it, and I feel like we've got the spectrum of feelings.
That's awesome. That is true.
Thomas, what have you got for us?
Well, I have another TV show. I think we all have TV shows this week. Maybe this one is on Stan, which is probably the best streaming platform. Yeah.
Yeah, we should declare that Stan is owned by nine, the publisher of the company that we work for, the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
So, scrubland. It's based on an award winning novel by Chris Hammer.
A former Sydney Morning Herald journalist. We should.
Say.
We should say. And had I continue speaking. No. But the thing is about this show, which we all will love. Basically, it's set in the small town of river sand, like a small like country town, rural Victoria. And basically the episode opens with this young pastor who's kind of help revitalize the town, played by Jay Ryan. And, you know, it's a Sunday. He's welcoming his parish into the church. Everyone seems to love him. And then he walks inside the church, comes out with a rifle and shoots five
men dead in the car park. And it's very, very shocking. It's a very strong opening scene. The story opens up a year later. Kind of. This journalist returns to the town, played by Luke Arnold, who played Michael Hutchence in the series, and he's a journalist at the Sydney Morning Herald, which is great because that's where we work. And he he is coming to the town to do like a kind of what his boss is telling him is essentially is a puff piece, like one year on, like how the
town is healing. But he obviously gets there and starts to kind of unpick what really happened. You know, there are all these different kind of like almost in a Larimer type way, strange people in the country town and everything is not as it seems. And lo and behold, he too has his own interesting back story and I really enjoying the first few episodes. Bella Heathcote is in it too. It is that classic, like Australian small town drama.
It's eerie, it's uncomfortable. It's really well shot. Yeah, I'm like, look, we made a joke about Stan. Some of the Stan offerings have not been amazing. I think we all agreed court was a misfire. This is, like, really good Australian TV, so I think everyone should give it a crack.
And did you read the book?
I have not read the book. Okay. Have you read the book?
I did read the book, so I'd be interested to see how it. One of the things that stands out to me from the book was like, he does a lot of public weeing like, there is so much dedicated in the book to this man going to the bathroom, but obviously.
It's not carried on.
But I will let you know.
Yeah, not surprised that they weren't like, okay, cool. We need like 15 shots of him.
Well, if.
It was Nathan Fielder.
It was Barry. Cool. Yeah.
No. Great. I'm actually really excited to watch that show. It's probably next on my list after I catch up with my recommendation, which is one that you actually gave to me, Thomas, when I was sick last week. I don't think you've seen it yet, though. It's a Disney+ show. It's called a murder at the end of the world. It stars Brit Marling, Emma Corrin, who also played Diana in the last season of The Crown.
Really is haunting.
Diana.
Yeah, we can't get away from these freaking royals. And Harris Dickinson, who was in Triangle of Sadness, a movie that I think we all really liked as well, also has Clive Owen as kind of the main antagonist, and there's a really good cast. This is an interesting show. It has a lot that I really like. It's essentially about this, like young character played by Emma Corrin called Darby Hart, who's pitched as this like Gen Z, Sherlock Holmes. They are like hacker and they solve true crime mysteries
on Reddit, that sort of thing. They get invited to this tech conference, which is hosted by Clive Owen's characters, sort of like tech billionaire there. A murder happens and they have to basically solve it. It's very like Knives
Out in that way. But the show is interesting, odd in that it also is about a series of flashbacks and a storyline that takes place in the past, where Emma Corrin is in a relationship with Harris Dickinson's character, and they are solving like this true crime murder mystery. I got to say, I think like it's not quite a perfect show because those two stories kind of don't
mesh together for me that well. I would prefer if we just stuck to one, and I really like the the murder at the end of the world thing, because that's this tech conference in Iceland. There's a bit of stuff about I. And tech. It's really interestingly shot and filmed. The characters that are pretty fun and wacky. That's a really good bit of the show, and I think it gets a bit overwhelmed by the the murder that happens
in the past. I'm trying to not get into detail because I don't want to spoil it for people, but I think if you're looking for like, some fun, entertaining murder mystery stuff, this is worth a crack.
Yeah. Okay, next on the list. I really like Emma.
I'll watch anything with Clive Owen. Yeah.
Clive Owen is amazing. There's a lot of weird stuff that he's doing in this, which I think is also fun. I think he's having a really good time, which is cool. Yeah. I feel like we should do a switcheroo and maybe, like, swap notes on some of these things next week because I am quite keen to check out Scrub Lands, and maybe that's worth a bit more of a chat when we've caught up as well.
Let's do it!
Thomas and Mel a big one from us today. We really Jim Chalmers, Emerald Fennell, hip Hop, The Crown, the Royals, what didn't we cover.
So a good baby baby.
That's what we do.
See you guys next week.
Bye.
This episode of The Drop was produced by Chey Wong. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode with a friend, tell them how great it is and how much you love listening to us on the drop. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.