Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, where we dive into the latest in the world of pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Kambouris. Guys, bit of news around today. We're recording this on Wednesday morning. Taylor Swift, The focus of today's episode of The Drop, has just announced that the Eras concert film will be released around the world, including here
in Australia on October 13th. It's a big deal. We're going to talk about exactly why and how Taylor Swift became the winner of culture in 2023. I'm not sure we're expecting that the start of the year, but also literally minutes ago before we sat down to record the WGA, the Writers Guild of America and the big Hollywood studios have reached a deal to end the 146 day writers strike,
the third longest in history. They announced they'd reached a kind of tentative agreement, but the boards of the Writers Guild have signed off on that. Details of that agreement have started to filter through what kind of experiencing this in real time right now.
I've always wanted to be a part of breaking news. This is very exciting for me.
Well, not to diminish that vibe. By the time people listen to this, Tom, it probably won't be breaking any more. But we are living in it.
We're living. I'm just talking about how I currently feel.
This is the occasion.
Yes. Yeah.
I broke the news to you just like you did two minutes ago, didn't I? That was.
Exciting. Which is weird because I'm normally so on the pulse, but.
Well, how do you guys feel about this deal, this strike coming to an end?
I am extremely pleased. I think it was causing me like low level anxiety going on in the background. And then increasingly I was starting to miss the the content. You know, it did feel like there was an absence of great stuff coming out on TV and kind of high level films. So I'm really pleased that this is over. The Writers Guild has said the deal is exceptional, so it sounds like it's a great outcome for them and I'm excited to be able to stop interviewing kind of not the stars of shows.
Yes. I mean, I'm probably not as excited as like Drew Barrymore is, but I mean, she.
Just held out for like one more.
Week. I know. Then she wouldn't have, like, ruined her entire reputation. I mean, obviously, it's worth mentioning that SAG hasn't cut a deal yet. So Hollywood is still, I guess, in a holding pattern like we will see the return of late night shows and stuff.
And there is an expectation that SAG might not be far off given the deal that the Writers Guild has struck.
Yes. Well, if we believe Matthew Fox from Lost, which I mean, why wouldn't you? Sure. I spoke to him yesterday and because he's in town to promote a show, a show that was filmed in Australia. And he seemed to think that, you know, he's obviously a SAG member and he seemed to think that SAG will skate right in behind the WGA and a deal will be done within the week. So according to Dr. Shepherd Distractingly over.
There you go. Breaking news.
I forgot that he was a doctor on that show. Yeah.
I mean, he was like a doctor. Like Joey was a doctor. Like Drake more.
Yeah. A lot of the issues that the two unions have been striking over, very similar to deal with residuals, to deal with increased rates of base pay to deal with protections around artificial intelligence. And the Writers Guild seem to be very stoked, as you said, Mel, with what
they've won. They've sort of sent around this complicated annotated spreadsheet that's color coded that that says, you know what they were asking for, what the last draft offer from the big studios was and what they have just received. And judging by that, it seems to be a pretty comprehensive victory for the writers, which you would hope for
after such a long and lengthy strike. And it does seem like now that a lot of that's been resolved, the big studios, I think what seemed to change in the last week or so was the heads of like Netflix and Disney really just started to roll up their sleeves and get down and resolve this. So you'd expect that same attitude to roll over to the Screen Actors Guild,
the actors union, and we get that resolved too. But of course, like, you know, Thomas, you mentioned that late night TV will return, SNL will return those sorts of kind of scripted reactive shows will return. But we've not had production in Hollywood for like four months. So we
are behind in terms of the pipeline. So I guess if you're listening to this and you're hoping that there'll be a whole bunch of great new TV shows and films dropping in the next couple of weeks, that's probably unrealistic, but it does mean we probably will get some of those big releases next year, things like June 2nd that were held back, sort of we're in a funny position because that was due to come out in November. If the actors strike gets resolved, then they could have still
promoted that film with the actors and done it. But it seems unlikely that we're going to start to see these things drop back on. Do you think?
Mel Yeah, it does. I think it will take a while for Hollywood and broadcast schedules to catch up with the delays. But for the films that have still stayed on the radar, which we did talk about in our in our preview for spring, I think hopefully if the actors strikes get gets resolved, at least we'll have kind of actors being able to come out and talk about their projects. We'll hope. You have red carpets back, writers
will be able to talk as well now. So I think kind of it will be a boost for the whole industry because it has kind of cast a shadow over everything. Even the shows that have gone ahead and even the shows in Australia that, you know, they are able to speak about their their work. It's kind of it's always in the background, isn't it, what's going on in LA and the ripple effects that's having around the world. So I think it will be much needed boost.
And like you said, even with some of these big releases like, you know, Paul Mescal is in a big movie called Foes coming out and we speak to the directors and director and that's exciting and it's great. But people want to hear from Paul Mescal. People want hear from the actors and stars. And it has impacted, again, not to say that we're the victims in this at all, but like it's impacted our jobs, who we can talk
to and who our readers like can read about. So I think it's good news all around and certainly a really great result for the Writers Guild.
And we know that Thomas has been hanging out to speak to Robert De Niro. So hopefully if if the actor's strike gets resolved, you'll be able to do that, too.
Yeah, Just got a couple of bones to pick with him.
Okay. Let's move on to the main topic of today's episode, Taylor Swift. In a year that gave us Barbie and Oppenheimer, we had the finale of Succession, a brand new Kylie album, a Beyonce tour. It feels like Taylor Swift was still like the cultural victor in terms of who has attracted the most attention, made the most money, generated the most headlines.
The Eras tour was a huge, huge, huge, unprecedented success, selling out all over the US, dominating TikTok like you could not get away from this tour even if you were not at the shows when tickets went on sale in Australia. I think over 4.5 million people tried to buy them. There's never been demand for concerts like that in Australian history. We are going to go deep on exactly how we got to this moment in culture, but in the last couple of days there's been a whole
new angle emerge to the Taylor Swift story. She's found a new world to conquer professional sports, particularly the NFL.
11th play of the drive Mahomes walked. It is a touchdown. And Kelsey.
You don't know who jumped higher after a Travis Kelce touchdown. If it was Taylor or Greg Olsen when he heard she was going to be at the stadium today. And of course.
As always. And then there's the biggest pop star in the world, Taylor Swift, with Travis's mom, Donna.
Mm.
I mean, I think the secret's out. Who is she here to see? I mean, I think I think the secret to photos.
Of her attending an NFL game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the Chicago Bears in a box with the mother of a Chiefs player, Travis Kelce. They didn't just go viral when they like emerged. They totally changed, like the direction of American social history. It feels like, judging by what we've been seeing in the last couple of days, there's a lot going on from rumors of a new relationship, which, to be honest, I find to be the least kind
of interesting part of all this. These other conversations about how big a deal Taylor Swift going to watch an NFL game is for both the music industry and for sport. Before we kind of get into all of this and explain what the hell is going on for people who may not have been following it as closely as us. What did you guys clock in the last couple of days? What made you sit up and be like, Holy shit, something very weird and special is going on right now.
Okay. I think for me it was the moment when Taylor was at the game and the camera panned up to her after Kelsey scored a touchdown, he was having a remarkable game. The camera pans up to her and she mouths, Let's fucking go. Obviously a shout out to the drop. Yes, that was the moment where I was like, okay, here we are.
The drop has really saturated. Yeah, I don't know. I think I personally just think it's weird that she's hanging out with his mom already. That's just seems too soon.
Well, actually, my first thought when I saw this really, apart from the, the LFG moment, was you would be stoked because we know you always back the thick man. And she has had a big fella.
He's a big fella.
Obviously, because if you look at her like she just basically dates sad Brits, whereas this guy is like, you know, all American beefcake. So I'm there for that. But I do think I don't know. To me, it all just felt like, oh, this is all so Taylor Swift like she's of course, she's like at the football with his mom. Like, I don't know if I didn't get like whipped up into the excitement that everyone else did. And I was just like, you know, it all felt a bit like
staged and stuff. And she's there knowing, like, everyone's watching her and she's in the player's box with his mom. It just felt a bit too like.
So do you think this might be the moment the momentum turns against Taylor?
I mean, probably not.
Maybe the momentum turns against you. Yeah.
I was a little bit similar to you, Thomas. I didn't really understand why Taylor Swift going to this game was such a big deal. I was not like, I'm not fully across the Travis Kelce thing. Mel, I'm going to get you to break that down for us in
a second. But like, I think what started to like get me to think about this with a slightly different lens was, you know, the NFL changed all of its social media handles to to be like Taylor was here you have these iconic sports commentators like Stephen Smith deliver these monologues about Taylor Swift.
Between songs, a nine minute standing ovation nonstop between songs they wouldn't let up perform. They couldn't stop little girls every knowing every syllable, every word, every song, crying, screaming. I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen anything like it. You want to. I was there. I was.
All of these reporters were at the game start like referencing Taylor Swift's songs. Bill Belichick, the iconic coach, is making jokes about Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey.
He's had a lot of big catches in his career. This would be the biggest.
And her appearance at NFL, I'm like, okay, I did not realize that the NFL and pop music hadn't quite collided like this before, but it seems like something new and exciting is happening. It seems worthy of trying to figure out what the fuck it is and why it's worthy of talking about. And I do think the starting point for this is trying to figure out why Travis Kelce is such a big deal, why he's connected to Taylor Swift. That seems to be like the jumping off
point for this whole kind of thing. And Mel, I've just been told by Thomas like this morning that you've been like a deep Kelsey head for a long time, which feels super weird to me.
It is weird. So, Mel, like for the listeners, Mel is like a bit of an undercover American sports fan. And when we started talking, she loves the NBA, she loves the NFL. And when we started talking about this, she basically was like just reeling off details about Travis Kelce. He's like stats every season, height, weight, girth, like everything. And yeah, so so here we have it. We're going to get the full Travis Kelce rundown from the number one fan.
I feel like this always shocks people that I'm super into sports, but I reckon sports are like my only genuine. Hobby like books? Well, no, but like, I was thinking about books, film, music, obviously my great loves. And, you know, that's really all I do. But all related to work and sport is like the one thing I'm really into, the kind of doesn't. Yeah, that is not kind of self beneficial in any way.
I feel like that applies to the three of us, right? We're all big sports nuts and we don't really like work in it.
No, not not yet. But I was thinking because I like messed up my book podcast rehearsal so much that maybe this is my audition for the sports podcast. I probably could.
Have played sport professionally, but it's just too political. What sport? Soccer?
Yeah, maybe.
Okay. Travis. Kelsey. Now, how deep do you want me to go on this?
I think you should go as deep as you feel comfortable because this guy is like, one of the most popular people, almost like Googled people in the world right now. So whatever detail and color you can give us.
Okay, great. Well, let's let's let's go back a bit to the to the to the biggest quarterback of all time, Tom Brady, face of the NFL for years recently retired now Tom Brady quarterback big role is to throw the ball for those who haven't seen Friday night.
NFL explainer.
Yeah yeah.
Quarterbacks yeah they're the ones that get all the girls right.
Like the American Nathan.
Cleary's Yeah and they have an off sider which is called a tight end now Tom Brady's off sider has been gronkowski and the two of them have kind of had Super Bowl success over the years. They're a sports pair to kind to match, you know, maybe we'd say.
Oseman and.
Thomas Osmond. Absolutely. Now, Tom Brady is recently retired and so it's cleared the way. NFL needs a new face. You know, Aaron Rodgers, good quarterback, thought they could be it for a while. He's been a bit kind of off the rails. He's been in the cave in the off season. He's kind of got an injury. So he's out.
He's done his Achilles in the first four minutes of this season. Yeah. After they paid like $50 million for it.
Not great, not great. But I mean he's got fans.
Are not having a good time, from what I understand. I am fully loving our pivot to just NFL podcast.
I can't believe we're on Aaron Rodgers now. Yeah who is Travis Kelce?
But really the real quarterback star is Patrick Mahomes. Now, do you know Patrick?
I do, yeah.
He's lovely. Seems like a great guy, all American. He plays for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's like the best quarterback now.
And they win, right? They've won like a couple of Super Bowls recently.
They have that one two. And he's compared to kind of Brady now Patrick Mahomes off sider is none other than Travis Kelce and their partnership is kind of like the Brady Gronk partnership of a new era. Okay.
Can we just pause for a second there? Because you said the word tight end, right, which I've read a lot this week, and it just makes me laugh a lot. It's a hilarious name for a position in a sport.
Wait, wait till we get to talking about his reality show. The first episode was called 50 Girls, one Tight End.
That can't be real. Is that real?
Legit.
That's the first episode.
I really feel there is so much potential for Taylor lyrics. Like on NFL jargon, it's going to be great.
So is tight end like a dummy half like is this the person is that is there a comparable or what is the tight end? The person who the quarterback tries to throw the ball to? Is that what goes on here?
Yeah. When you have a good working relationship between your quarterback and your tight end, like a reporter and editor, I guess you're kind of in sync. So Travis Kelsey is often kind of sealing the deal after Mahomes calls the calls the pass.
Okay. So that is why Bill Belichick said he's made a lot of great catches in his career. But Taylor Swift is one of the best ones.
Such a good line.
But wait, so there are plenty of good tight ends out there. But why? Like, you know, he's obviously risen above like the level of fame of being good at NFL. And he's like in popular culture, even before Taylor Swift. So like, how did that come to be?
It's the partnership, really. I think it's the dynamic between the two of them. It's like how we work on your column each week. You know, your success is my success and vice versa.
That's really nice. That's sweet. Like a nice, cool partnership in sport. We love that.
And he is huge. But really, Patrick Mahomes is like the star. But it was funny when Taylor was at the game, they were like for the first time, Travis Kelce is who everyone is here to see. Right, right, right. But yeah, as you mentioned, he has kind of he's obviously setting himself up for a career post the Super Bowl because he was on a reality show. He's hosted SNL this year. He's got a podcast out. He's got
a bit of kind of front facing charisma. I think on a podcast we were listening to, they kind of compared him to becoming like The Rock or that's his ambition, right?
So like a, like a kind of broad cultural figure across different mediums and sort of spheres of culture.
Yeah, transcending kind of the field. But I will say, like when you see him in the games, he is pretty like bro, bro, bro, Like when you when they catch him on mic during the game, he's not he doesn't come across as kind of the sharpest tool in the shed. But so it is an interesting pairing as we were saying, compared to who she has been.
Can I ask you another question, Mel, about the Kelsey family at large? So I understand his mom, like goes to watch his games. And Tom has mentioned that tells me his brother also plays NFL.
Yeah. So his brother Jason plays for the Eagles. And they actually had to face each other in the last Super Bowl, which Travis Kelce won. Wow.
So there's two brothers. The Kelsey brothers are going head to head in the Super Bowl.
Yeah, it's kind of like we were saying. Well, it was like a Steph Curry Seth Curry situation where unfortunately my.
Brother Sam Burgess. George Burgess. Thomas Burgess. What are the other boo? What's the other ones?
I don't know, man. I try not to think about the Burgess brothers. They cause me a lot of grief.
I'm just trying to keep localizing this content for our listeners.
And Taylor Swift has historically been an Eagles fan. From what I understand. She was born in Philadelphia, and so again, her appearance at this Chiefs game caused a lot of consternation because people are like, Why are you going for like their rival in the last Super Bowl, the Kansas City Chiefs.
Yeah, but we know Taylor believes in love. And love can make you as she as she often sings about do some pretty wild things and they're they're my parents my sports podcast. I think I did pretty well.
That's a great explanation.
That's a good explanation.
You know what upsets me is I did much better at NFL than I did at books, which is quite upsetting.
Yeah, but because it's clearly your real joy.
So that's Travis Kelce. We all obviously know who Taylor Swift is. What's the starting point of this thing? Because clearly something had been going on in the background before she appeared at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City.
Well, yeah, and this is why I think we'll get to this later. But I think Travis Kelce, I don't like the cut of this guy's jib. Anyway, many I don't I just think like I can I can see a fame fuck a million miles. I'm like, Olivia, Rodrigo, man, this is a fame sucker. Blood.
Famously, she didn't see him a million miles away anyway.
But then I did see so like, maybe 4 or 5 years ago on a game of kiss, marry, Kill, which probably hasn't aged that well as a game anyway, Travis Kelsey was was playing this and I think it was like Katy Perry.
Your your mentor and.
Yeah and some some other pop star and this is like 2006.
Ariana Grande.
I think Ariana Grande. Yeah. And he chose to kiss Taylor I think so. Obviously the Internet sleuths, having moved on from Russell Brand, have now gone on to this and and been like okay, so he's been crushing on her for a while And then I think was it like earlier this year he went to one of Taylor's concerts, not just any concert.
He went to Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City where she popped up. Right.
So. So she was playing at his home ground. Yeah. And he made he kind of like went on to this podcast he has with his brother new heights, which sounds like something I'd rather remove my own foot, then listen to. And he, he basically retold this story about how he went to the concert. He made her a friendship bracelet, which is hilarious.
And this is the thing that is happening at Taylor Swift concerts. If you're not aware, like fans are taking friendship bracelets and swapping them with other fans. So it is still hilarious because he's like a six foot ten NFL tight end, but it's like less creepy than it sounds on the surface.
Yeah, right. That does make it less creepy. And I prefer the version in my head. Anyway, so he did this. His intention was to basically like try and get a meet and greet maybe before or after the show and give her his number. And then he kind of retells the story in the podcast. Like, unfortunately he didn't get the opportunity to because she doesn't speak to people because she got to save her voice. And but yeah, I guess that was the first time he like went on
record and was like, I'm vibing Taylor Swift. Like, put it out, you know, that whole like put it out into the universe and see what happened.
And then there was a bit of a challenge too. Wasn't that way. It was like I saw you pull a crowd at the stadium, come and watch me pull the crowd at the stadium.
Yeah. And then kind of like a little bit of time passes and. I guess, like there's rumors that they're like quietly hanging out, I think, which, you know, like when it comes to press language, you really have to read between the lines. And this is why I think and again, we'll get to this later, I think this is all bullshit, manufactured, staged. I think when it comes to like press language, you have to really read between the lines. And I think quietly hanging out is like code for probably not.
Kissing.
Like, I don't. I don't reckon this is a vibe at all.
Anyway, that's what you read quietly, hanging out. It's not kissing. I just don't.
Reckon. Anyway, we'll get to it. He basically. Then I think fast forward a few, a few weeks later, he then he had a beard. You can probably. I mean, what are the posters on your wall. What's he got.
Yeah. He had a beard which he reduced to a mustache.
And on his podcast his brother, I think kind of was like, oh, Taylor will probably like that. And he was like, We'll have to wait and see. And then then came the rumors that they were quietly hanging out. And I guess, you know, over the past few days, we've seen the big, you know, confirmation Taylor in the players box. So I guess that's the abridged version of how they came to be.
And then there was also this kind of like captured footage from a fan of them leaving the stadium or leaving the game together. So what you've kind of got from these two extremely, extremely good explanations from you guys is the story of like why people care at Travis Kelsey, the story of how him and Taylor seemed to be playing this kind of long game, or at least he seemed to have been playing this kind of long game, culminating in this, like, real world meetup that we all
saw fueling rumors of a relationship. Now, I said at the start of this, I do find this a weird thing to talk about, right? Like we don't our job, even though we cover pop culture and celebrity and all these sorts of things, our job is not to like gossip about who people are dating or who people are hooking up with. That has been a big part of like this. Like a lot of the tabloids who've covered this have said things like, well, this confirms that Taylor
is dating Travis Kelce. I don't think it does. And I think there's a lot of interesting stuff going on here without needing to get into the specifics of whether they are in a romantic relationship or not. I also, for the record, I'm with you, Thomas. Like this feels like a manufactured friendship or a manufactured kind of partnership between this very famous sports person who was building a media empire and this very famous music person who was
building a media empire. And the NFL is not like the basketball in the sense that it doesn't cross over with like music and entertainment as much except for like outside the Super Bowl halftime show. So it is very mutually beneficial for these two worlds to be brought together in this way. And, you know, maybe it's not surprising that the most obvious takes are, Oh my God, has Taylor got a new boyfriend? Because that has been the way the media has written about Taylor Swift for like
20 years now. But it just doesn't seem like that's the case. And it seems like if they were willing to be photographed together and they're willing to like have this public relationship, they would just make it more clear that they were dating. That seems to be. That's my read on it at least.
Yeah. And I also well, firstly, as you were saying, there is that audiences probably don't cross over much. Like obviously there would be Taylor Swift fans among NFL fans, me being one of them. But if you look at a Taylor Swift concert, it's not the same people that you see going to the NFL and vice versa predominantly. So there is kind of commercial aim there. But also I think Taylor is maybe having a lot of fun with the media at the moment. I think she's playing
a lot of games. She seems very in control of her own narrative in a way that I think she has tried to be in the past, but she really is now. So it kind of feels like this is very tongue in cheek for Taylor. And it's also part of her public presentation as being I'm my own boss now because.
I think the same I think it's all a bit like there is a mutual beneficial thing going on. And it's like even the fact that they drove off from the stadium in a fucking convertible like it was and.
She had she was wearing the Chiefs jump around her waist. She had a weird watching.
Are we watching like the. 2023 version of Love Story Film Clip. Update It's all very weird, but I guess the question playing devil's advocate, even though I agree, is that like what I see? What's in it for Travis Kelce? Like, you know, he's clearly been working in this background on his media career, and this is like the best thing that's ever happened to him. But what's in it for Taylor Swift? Like, she doesn't she doesn't really need more audience.
Okay. I reckon my immediate answer to that is so yeah, she sold out her eras tour around the world on the 13th of October. As we mentioned, the start of the show, the film version of that is about to be released. A lot of people who go and see that will be Taylor Swift fans who either miss out on tickets or who saw the show but want to go see it in a cinema for that full, glorious cinematic experience. But also like, you know, every day. Cornfed
Middle America is like an audience for that. And that comes out in two weeks time. NFL fans who may be like didn't really pay a lot of attention to Taylor are now perhaps doing so. And what better way to find out more in terms of what the fuss is about than spend 20 bucks on a ticket to go see, you know, the eras tour in the cinema. I understand that that sounds like extremely cynical that Taylor Swift is just doing this to sell tickets to the
era kind of cinema thing. I don't know if it's just that I think like she's partway through a very long journey in terms of becoming the most dominant cultural force in the world, and an alliance with the NFL and NFL fans helps her get there. But I think the most immediate benefit I think, is manifested in that in that era of cinema show.
Yeah. And I do think what you were saying, Mel, is kind of right. Like even the the whole Sophie Turner thing last week was very like Taylor is someone who spends a lot of time in the public eye, and if she didn't want to be seen, she would know where to go, to not be seen and how to facilitate that. And that was like such a public spectacle and like respect. I thought it was hilarious.
Can you just walk us through that, Thomas, for people who might not understand the significance of that interaction?
Yeah. So Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner broke up because Joe Jonas is dating both of his brothers now. And so.
Second week in a row, you've made a Jonas Brothers.
Incestuous. It's a fucking gift. It keeps on giving. But yeah. So Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner have broken up. The split has turned bad, and there's lots of kind of like, I guess, mum shaming going on around Sophie Turner in the narrative that Joe Jonas pushing out was that she was too busy, like living it up to parents, blah blah, blah. There's been like a public backlash to that. And obviously Joe Jonas and Taylor Swift once upon a time were
an item. And then last week in New York, I think it was Taylor Swift and Sophie Turner were spotted at a restaurant like sitting basically in the window, having a very animated conversation over dinner and drinks. And then they left together, like hand in hand. It was the biggest like the girls are on Here vibe. And it was great and people kind of loved it. And it was a very yeah, it was a very big public moment for Taylor. And then Taylor is.
Very about like her public image is very much about being for the, for the girls and after her and Joe Alwyn boy do.
The girlies love.
It. They did love it after her and her partner of six or so years split up and there was a lot of attention on her. I feel like it's a very deliberate statement to then take Sophie Turner out for a night on town about women supporting other women in this kind of world that is very quick to judge women and their relationships. Yeah, she's.
Really out there at a time when should she not want to be that she could make that decision. So it feels like perhaps it's pointed.
Yeah. And I think the other part of probably what's going on in terms of like why it feels like there's such a rush of Taylor Swift doing things stories right from Matty Healy stuff to Sophie Turner to to this. My kind of little theory on this is Taylor has spent a large part of her career. In fact, most of her career training her fans and her audience to have this, like, deeply parasocial relationship with her, like the Easter eggs and songs, the way she teases real things
that have happened. You know the all too well ten minute version, the scarf, like all of this stuff, her fans live and die on every tiny little thing that she does. And it certainly helped her a lot. Right? It helped her develop a very close relationship with millions and millions and millions of people who bought her records, who defended her online, who her stand army, who went to her shows, traveled around the world, all that sort
of stuff. I wonder whether now in her early to mid 30s, after having done that to get to this stage, she now wants to break away from that. Being a celebrity is very tough. It's very annoying, it's very stressful. Everyone monitors every tiny little thing that you do. It's
very hard to just live a normal life. If she was setting out to break that nexus between her and her fans, not sort of like seeking to alienate them totally, but to have them maybe take a bit of a step back and let her live a life, what better way than by basically flooding the zone, to quote Steve Bannon and saying, you know, I will be seen with Matty Healy. Maybe we're dating, maybe we're not. I. Will step out with Sophie Turner. I will go to this
Kansas City Chiefs games because why not? And you can't turn every little thing that I do if I do so many of them into a big narrative about what phase of life I'm in and what sort of woman I want to be, I kind of think she may be trying to signal to us the wider public as well as her fans, that she's just going to do
whatever she wants to do now. And it's not healthy anymore to pass every tiny little thing she does through this layer of like, what does this mean in the grand cosmic scheme of Taylor Swift?
I think that's completely true. And she speaks about this in her documentary as well, about the pressure she felt as a young woman. You know, she entered the industry very young and she entered in country music, which has quite kind.
Of abilities that.
Yeah, a lot of NFL fans, which has quite kind of, I guess, rigid requirements for its figureheads. And she speaks in the documentary about the pressure she felt to be a certain kind of pop star. And I think young people generally feel that pressure to behave in a certain way. But as she's gotten into her 30s, it feels like she's kind of really come into herself publicly in a
way she wasn't before. And I think also doubling onto the NFL, there was heaps of clips around of her at the VMAs just having the best time, like singing to Shakira, looking.
Like she was really good, like public. Klepper Yeah, she.
Was like just having a blast. And I kind of feel like she would have known the cameras were on her the entire time, like both the the show's cameras, but also everyone around to and it was just like she didn't care. So I do I agree with you was I think she's an icon and now she's like, well I'm going to do iconic things.
Do you think going back to the NFL kind of tie in with all this? And I think I think it's sort of hard in a way as an Australian to still wrap our heads around what this actually means. Like, I think even if we understand NFL and I kind of do and I've watched the Super Bowl and whatever, but like the NFL is a cultural institution, what that means is quite really, it doesn't seem to be like a one for one in Australia.
Right? I'm sorry, but the biggest moment in sport is coming this Sunday on the Nine Network. Like I mean it's the NRL Grand Final Broncos Panthers 1V2, Reece Walsh versus Ivan Cleary Taylor will probably be there.
I've got mixed feelings about that. Like I, I my sympathies to Penrith and certainly not to any Queensland team in the NRL. But Adam Reynolds, my guy, you know, and Penrith have won so much and it's like, is it great for a team to win that much?
Yeah, I want the Dynasty dynasty to be over. But no, what you're saying is true. It's hard to make a like for like comparison. Like we have, you know, the state of.
Origin back to the topic.
Which is the state of origin, which is like the spectacle or even like, you know, a Collingwood Hawthorn grand final at the MCG with 100,000 people. Like it still doesn't compare to like the insane spectacle that is like the Super Bowl or the like the way Americans do and like ingest and live sports is like very unique to them.
And Super Bowl is the biggest of them all in America. Like more than 100 million people tune in to watch the.
Super like also just to keep in a full frame of reference, it compares nothing to like the FIFA World Cup.
But for America, it's very big. And I guess this this is the question that was building to before we had to talk about the NRL grand final versus.
750 kickoff on nine Network.
Are you like on the are you on the panel?
I'm hoping to be.
The question, if I can ask it is has there been a tie up between two figures from kind of different worlds? That has come close to this Taylor Swift, Travis Kelce NFL thing. There is one that I can think of, but I want to ask you guys first before I shout it out.
Look, I'd.
Maybe I would say Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. That was the.
One that was going to.
Say. I thought.
Oh, yeah, right. Okay. I was just going to say, like, obviously Beck and Light and Hewitt.
Okay. I mean. Yes. How are you saying in sport? Yeah.
No. True. Okay. Okay. True in.
Sport.
And in Australia. Yes. I don't think anyone outside of Australia knows who becciu it is.
Okay, well, that's not fair because I don't think.
She had like it.
No, I'll give you a legit one. So Sergio Busquets is captain of Barcelona and he was married to Shakira. They actually got divorced last year, but he's like this massive star in world football. She's like one of the biggest Latino like, stars of all time. That was like a proper crossover in the world of football and like, entertainment. And they were like the superstar couple.
Posh and David Beckham while we're on. Yeah, I.
Was going to say Posh and Becks is probably one of the all time like sporting music culture tie ups. But I think. Yeah, it's sort of interesting cause you're right that football is like, globally so much bigger than anything else. But given how dominant America is in terms
of the production and reproduction of like, culture. I still feel like those things didn't have the ramifications downstream that like something like the Kim and Kanye thing did that felt so of different worlds and then became a unified thing. Of course, the big caveat and all of this is like the Taylor Travis thing, if it is what we think, which is like maybe their friends and it's a bit of fun, it's probably unlikely to lead to any new
kind of cultural product that we're all obsessed with. Like Taylor Swift is probably not going to release a Travis Kelce or NFL inspired like, album. I don't know if the Kansas City Chiefs will rename themselves the Kansas City like Swifties.
Well, I'm guessing like if if we're spitballing. Taylor hasn't done a half time show yet, has she?
No, she's not.
And I famously.
Turned them down a few times.
Hasn't she? Would have said this.
Would have been the perfect launch announcement. But they have just launched that Usher shirt is.
Going to be that launched.
Usher, which is like.
What's your favorite Usher song while we're on it?
Probably Confessions part.
Two. Yeah, but the.
The like launching Usher is that's a that's a bad launch. That's not an exciting launch.
Yeah. Like, no, it's not exciting.
Like, you know, the last few years I've at least had some like Usher is not.
I also feel.
That they did that throwback halftime show where they had.
A lot of that.
Was like fucking like Dr. Dre, Eminem, Snoop Dogg. The game with Kendrick like that was, you know, that was mad like Usher. He's got like three good songs, like, anyway, so maybe the NFL this is like a really long game from them to get Taylor next year. But the thing is given that we discussed earlier that it appears Travis has been kind of like courting this or manifesting this for some time. This is my fear about the
whole thing. He is legit because he's legit in trying to pursue her, but his intentions are impure, whereas I think maybe she's just having fun. But I reckon I.
Think he was just being tongue in cheek on his podcast the same way You're like, Call me Katy Perry. Like if Katy Perry and you then met up, no one would be like he's been calling her for for weeks. I think Travis was just speaking off the cuff and it got picked up and blown up and then they're both having a bit of fun with it. You think he legitimately.
Do we need to.
Get to his weird dating show? You basically created a version of The Bachelor for himself to star in. It was called Catching Kelsey. It was in 2016. It was on E! And basically yeah the logline is American football player Travis Kelce is known for catching passes as a tight end. As a pro football star and eligible bachelor. Kelsey is quite the catch himself in the Dating competition series Catching Kelsey. 50 women from 50 states vital in the heart of a pro football player.
Yeah, and it does. The more I think about this, the more I talk to you guys about this, the more it seems like he is the massive beneficiary. Like being associated with Taylor Swift is such a fucking massive boon for him. I really don't understand what she gets out of it other than what we're talking about for maybe like boosting sales to her show. And that's what
it brings me back to. Just like maybe she wanted to go to a football game and have some fun and that's a valid thing for her to want to do.
But again, I think being the master of the public narrative, going with someone's mom, especially in like, you know, the Midwest of America and like that's that says something that's true.
But it is the family box and the mom is usually there as well. So maybe it wasn't like they planned it together.
Yeah, but it's.
She's aware of the.
Optics. Yeah, for sure.
So this NFL thing, like it's like Taylor capping off what has been one of her most commercially and critically and culturally successful years which really says a lot considering that basically since she first started recording music, she has been one of the biggest cultural icons in the world. She didn't need this as like a feather in a cap, but I think it's worked out quite well for her. I honestly like I've had mixed history with Taylor in the past.
I Are you reading between the lines here?
I am, yeah. They've been quite quietly mixed.
I was I was sort of late ish to really. Well, ladies, like, I guess we'll start with the 2009 VMAs, right? Like, that was my first real cultural moment with Taylor. And at that stage, I was like, not on her side. I was on Beyonce's side because Kanye was objectively right. And I'm like, Well, why would I root for the white country girl over the black woman from the South who has just like, completely reinvented pop music and changed the world? Was there a bit of like latent misogyny
in terms of me buying into that narrative? Probably. I was like 18, you know, like let a man live.
And I think that's not really that's not really a defense.
Okay. When you were 18, you had like perfect political views on.
Like, I mean, she probably women in music.
Let a man live that.
I that.
That I took.
Exception to.
I'm out here being honest with my.
Thoughts sorry this.
Is a I'm risking cancellation talking about this and I took me a couple years probably to get over that. The narrative of Taylor being so tied up with that VMAs award. And then eventually I did get over it. I'm. Okay. This music's actually really good. It's really interesting. It makes sense. She finds a really smart way to reinvent herself, album to album, and has just, you know, become Taylor Swift. Obviously the Eras tour. I'm like, What else could she do?
I've just like, did not expect this to become such a big part of the cultural conversation this year. Did you guys see this coming?
No, not to the extent that it has been. I mean, I almost feel like I've seen the whole Eras tour because the TikTok coverage and kind of the the TikTok culture around this tour is so insane and so creative and fun. Did you guys get tickets?
No. I'm still hoping that perhaps we can pull some strings. But I was very like.
I felt we were in the office, winds up in the ticket buying.
Mania. Yeah, like someone always has to play this role, I guess. And it's Taylor for the last, like 5 to 5 years she's been, she's been the the one and yeah, I really like her. I mean obviously I feel like my relationship to her is tainted by her relationship to John Mayer. And obviously, I mean, it's good to get my one John Mayer mention it. Every podcast ticked off. But you know, like, yeah, I've always been, I think, curious as to the way she does like
play the game as well. You said before the Easter eggs and the way she cultivates this fandom and like there's this girl that went to my high school and like obviously I follow her on Instagram and she's like a mad swiftie and like, you know, like, like we're adults and stuff. But she's like really super into it. And I just like, so that's kind of my I get a glimpse into what it's actually.
Like, what kind of content.
She she like goes like. So she went to America and did like a Swift's tour of like you can go and pay into and she goes to like every concert and she followed her around the states and like and this is like a 30 something year old woman and like, which I respect, but it's crazy, you know,
like that She inspires this level of fandom. And yeah, I found that I think the most curious thing about her and, and I guess now she's at this new level where, like, every single thing she does is picked apart and yeah, like, she's, she's kind of the person dominating the cultural conversation now.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like the cultural context was ripe to create a Taylor Swift. As we've talked about before, we're having a reckoning at the moment about how we treated pop stars of the early 2000s in the late 1990s, particularly with figures like Britney Spears and just female celebrities in general from that period. So we're having a reckoning about that. As I was saying in the Olivia Rodrigo podcast as well, we've kind of long ignored female creative outputs,
particularly pop stars. And so we're kind of revisiting that and trying to correct that. So I just feel like all these things have aligned for Taylor Swift to kind of have her moment, and she couldn't have existed apart from now.
I also missed out on tickets to the show. I mean, I thought it was stressful enough reporting on it, let alone trying to buy them. I in the same boat as like Anthony Albanese, who I think said something like, No, I'm just going to wait for a phone call. Someone will sort me out. So fingers crossed that happen.
I know, but.
I feel like you guys will get sorted out. But I'm well.
I was going to say, should we all go see the era's.
Film? Yeah, I think.
That that could be fun.
That would be fun.
I think that this movie is going to be very, very, very big. I think what is really interesting about it is she doesn't have a distributor. From what I understand, she's sort of like made it in-house and has done deals with cinema companies individually. So she will make an enormous cut of the money on this. I think that's another huge part to the Taylor Swift stories, the way that she is done. All of this now outside of the traditional ecosystems of how labels and musicians are supposed
to operate. I think this probably won't end up being as big as Bobbie, but I think on opening day and maybe even opening week, there will be a lot of Chelsea fans in movie theaters dressed up with friendship bracelets. I'm not sure everyone has kind of realized that yet. I think this announcement has just happened. The Bobby hype took a few weeks to build up. I'm just calling it now. I think this is going to be one
of the biggest movie events of the year. I think the interesting thing is Taylor Swift fans who've got tickets to see the show in Australia in February, will they want to see an on screen or will they want to wait and see? My guess is, like you said, Mel, you've seen the whole thing anyway on social media. Why not pay a bit of money, see the full cinematic experience and then go see the actual show?
Because 90% of people going to the shows like Taylor will be a tiny ant like like, you know, unless you paid like $5,000 for the, you know, like whatever it is, like Swifty super swift, unless.
You're the prime minister or something.
Yeah. And.
And apparently it doesn't cover the whole set either. Like it's part of the sense, but it's kind of like, I mean, I think of Beyonce at Coachella, another amazing concert film. Like there's watching it is one thing and then going to see it is another. I don't think they will cannibalize their audience by the people going to the live show. I think they'll definitely still go see the movie.
I did think it was important to get your guy's opinion on the two, kind of like couple nicknames that are doing the rounds. So we've got trailer or we've got swell.
See, Trailer is pretty fun.
Trailer feels really like. Grim. Like. Like trailer trash? Yeah.
Yeah. It feels like it's open for horses.
Fun.
It seems fun. Yeah.
Very coastal, Very beachy. Salty. Yeah.
Lift.
Get out.
I'm going to work on that. I'm going to brainstorm that.
But yes, I guess we'll see what happens. The interesting thing will be like, I don't know, You can probably tell me whenever the next Kansas City Chiefs game is, but like, will she be there? Like I think she's got to go back on tour in November to back in Argentina or whatever. So like, I don't know if she's going to be like a regular at these games.
Now, that's.
A good question. Let us put our bets in. I don't think she will be there.
No, because like, you know, you can't capture that moment again.
Yeah. Yeah. I think this NFL thing is going to be a bit of a flash in the pan kind of a thing.
How would you feel if they were in love? And it turned out that hanging out meant like.
Oh yeah, my favorite segment on the show where we asked Thomas how he feels about celebrity pairings.
I also loved before you specifically were like, We don't really tend to gossip. I'm like, Man, I gossiped exclusively on this podcast about Timothy and Kylie.
But that was confirmed, right? That's the difference. I think talking about something going on versus like the rumor around who someone's hooking up.
With, I think, I think I would feel fine about it. Like he is a big departure from her, if you look at because like I said before, she has this like long list of like kind of like again, sad British men who presumably just like mope around, like she's been with Harry Styles, Joe Alwyn, Matty Healy. Tom Hiddleston Like, you know, these are all kind of from the same, you know, polite British cloth, whereas this guy is like
he is a beefcake. He's like got his big brother and his mom and he's got a moustache and he drives a convertible and he's like, Feel like.
You're just saying this in a, like in a.
Certain tone that then makes it. Well, there's a big.
Guy with a convertible.
Okay. I'm sorry. You put Travis Kelce.
Next to fucking Matty Healy. And, like, you know, these are not the same men I find.
I find this thing. So, like, I guess we are doing this now. Let's. Let's keep it brief, like the conjecture. But I think the other bit of this that I found so bewildering when everyone lost their minds is if she is hanging out with this guy or she's dating this guy, is it shocking that Taylor Swift is dating like another all American like bloke like to me? Not at all. More shocking to me if she ends up
dating Travis Scott, right? Or like a black basketball player, like tales of dating a famous American man who is white and, like, kind of boring. Feels like not a big surprise, to be honest. Yes. No, I.
Agree. I would love if she started dating Travis Scott. Look, just for that. Can you imagine the car? Imagine. Imagine the fucking the.
Meltdown meeting at.
Like, at HQ. Yeah. No, totally agree.
Do you have any any final thoughts, Mel, on where this goes and what it says about Taylor Swift slash us.
I mean, I think it says that this is Taylor Swift's era and we're all living in it. And I'm excited to see kind of this new era of Taylor Swift where she's out and about doing what she wants, feeding and playing with media narratives. And I kind of always love reading the cultural critiques that surround these things. So I'm a I'm all here for it.
Okay. Was that statement legal by Taylor Swift's lawyers?
Is it like when you sit.
So much on the fence, does it hurt or does it.
Well, I think leaving aside a slightly deranged end to that conversation, I think we did a pretty good job of walking through like what the hell was going on and why.
Well done.
Guys. Has gotten everyone so fired up. So good job, guys. Now it's time for our new ish segment, Impress Your Friends, where we each share something in the world of culture that we have been enjoying in the past week. And we want to share with each other and our listeners. Melanie, you can go first this time. How do you want to impress your friends?
Thank you. Well, I'm going to lift the curtain here because this segment has been censored. I wanted to stick with the.
Oh my.
God, awful. Every week I wanted.
To stick with the sports theme. And I have recently just finished reading Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch, which is his kind of autobiographical essay about him being a fan came out in 1992, but Us was like immediately shot it down, said, You can't pick something so old. This is magic.
No, no.
Actually, I thought you were talking about the 2005 film Fever Pitch starring.
Drew Barrymore and Jimmy Fallon.
Robin Chicken. Come on.
She's actually talking about.
Something much older.
It's based on the book. Like, that's what I thought was. And I'm like, this is impress your friends, not name a 20 year old, like mediocre film.
Okay, well, you've misunderstood me, but you didn't see it.
For the first or last time anyway.
Because actually my new sport that I am into is the Premier League, which was why Thomas has been kind of talking me through that, which is why I actually picked up.
This. Mel I've also gotten into the Premier League.
Who do you go for?
I'm a Manchester United fan. I have been for a while, but I've really only started to get invested this year because of like Ange and the Hot Spurs. And I'm like, let's actually pay attention. Turns out not a great year to be a Manchester United fan.
No, but a great year to be a Spurs fan, which so far I am. Yeah.
We're doing.
So you've jumped on the Spurs bandwagon? Well, it was.
Actually before and became the coach, but it was obviously the right decision. So anyway, that was it's a great book. It's about the Arsenal Football Club, all about fandom and really it's about class and it is about masculinity and I would recommend it. But when I was told I couldn't pick that, I also had No, no, no.
Well, I didn't know that. You were talking about a cool book by Nick Hornby about soccer. Like, that's great. That's a great recommendation. I'm impressed. I'm your.
Friend.
But the other current book that I wanted to mention was Catherine Braden's body friend. She's a young, emerging writer. She won the Vogels Literary Award for The Memory Artist, which was set in Russia. And then she had the shut ins, which was set in Japan and got shortlisted
for quite a lot of books. But Body Friend, it's about a woman recovering from surgery and she meets two friends that kind of are symbols of the different approaches she has to recovery, like the need to get back out there and the need to want to withdraw into her interiority, like some of the symbolism is a bit overworked. But I was pretty impressed by it's an interesting concept. It's a slow kind of steady book with a coolness
to it and a deft hand. I liked it because it didn't have that kind of disaffected, wry tone that we're seeing in a lot of kind of books by young writers these days. Like it felt quite meaningful. So yeah, I would recommend that.
That was quite a good book review. Damn it.
It was a really good book review.
I can either hear the reviews.
Of the book review pouring in. Yeah.
Gosh.
Thomas, what have you got to impress our friends?
So I've got a TV show again because, you know, that's my thing. And this is one that was actually hit Britbox in July. But not many people have britbox in Australia. So now it's on binge, which lots of people have. So this is the Sixth Commandment. It's a four part British series, so it's on Binge now. It's basically tells the true story of this young man.
Who.
Basically met, befriended and kind of like grew close to two elderly people. In England. And and essentially he begins to like, gaslight them and confuse them. And I won't spoil it, but it becomes this very kind of like unsettling story about, yeah, these two vulnerable old people that fall into the orbit of this quite an evil man. It is based on a true story and there are some trigger warnings and stuff. But yeah, it's not an
easy watch. But I think like all of us love kind of like British drama and this is very much in that vein. It kind of reminded me almost of like not in terms of plot, but in terms of tone, like Broadchurch, which I think is one of the great British TV shows.
Oh, yeah, one of the best British true crimes.
Yeah, it is like a really hard watch. But yeah, like the story is crazy. It's really well-made. So it's written by Sarah Phelps. I don't know if any of you guys watch a very British scandal.
I did a.
Couple years ago, which is really good. So yes, that was her show. She's also written this. And, you know, the families of the two old people that are kind of at the center of the story, both fully cooperated with the story. So it's like very it is one of those ones. You watch an episode, then you go on Google, then you watch the next episode, then you go on Google. I highly recommend it. But yeah, intense but very, very watchable for episodes on Binge Now.
Great recommendation. Mine is also a TV show also on Binge. Have you guys seen telemarketers?
I have not, but I've heard a lot about it.
I have seen one. Amazing.
It is really good. It's really good. So this is a three part documentary. It is executive produced by the Safdie Brothers and it is produced by a company called Rough House Pictures, which is Danny McBride's production company. And if you are a fan of like Danny McBride, Eastbound and Down, anything the Safdies have done the kind of like chaotic, messy, grimy America, this is going to grip you.
So this is the story of a telemarketing company called CDG and a guy called Sam who started working there when he dropped out of high school in the early 2000 and thought, This is crazy. I'm like working with all these ex-cons. I'm working with heroin addicts. People are like snorting drugs and making telemarketing. Phone calls were working crazy hours of the night. I'm just going to film this stuff, put it on YouTube, and it'll be like, funny.
And it is. And it's like, That is the first episode. Basically. It is a very funny workplace docu comedy sort of thing. It shifts gears so intensely in the second and third episodes to become an investigative journalism sort of exposé into the potentially illegal world of charity telemarketing. The way that police unions are involved, these guys end up like wanting to go to Congress to try and change the laws around all of this, the characters in this and like
it's real. But these guys are like crazy. Characters are extraordinary. The storytelling is amazing. It's like you just can't believe it starts in one place and ends where it ends. It's one of the best things I've watched in the last few months. Really, really.
Good.
Yeah, I'm definitely keen to check that out. And everyone obviously has experiences with telemarketers, so like to get that. It's very much one of those, like how the sausage is made type things like see what's going on in those companies.
Safdie Brothers only produced kind of great stuff, don't they?
Well, I think the segment is working out really well. People seem to be enjoying it, too. So Thomas and Mel, thank you for both your recommendations and thank you for your Taylor Swift takes on this episode.
And who do we like for the grand final?
I'm tipping the Panthers.
Go to go Panthers.
I'm Broncos by six.
And because it is also AFL grand final weekend I don't know if you guys care at all about it but I'm backing a slim Brisbane Lions win.
Yeah, I'm doubling down on Brisbane so Brisbane by seven.
Mel Brisbane by 12.
And who's going to win the next Kansas City Chiefs game?
Yeah, sure.
That will be obviously.
Patrick Mahoney Great stuff, guys. Thank you. This episode of The Drop was produced by Cheong. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review or better yet, share it with a friend. I'm Osmond Fergie. See you next week.