It might be time that we retire the bit.
It might be time because it started out as a funny thing, and I know Zach is going to come on and pretend that he likes pit Pull. But Zach has been traveling, He's been busy. If you follow him on Instagram, he's been doing a bunch of things. So we haven't had him on for a while. And now I'm just remembering that the bit just ruins my day. I think it's time that we retire the pit bull a bit because you think that, well, Zach doesn't really
like him. He's gonna come on and pretend that he does, but there's no way like in reality, he actually does.
We'll leave it up to him. It's his walk up song, Zach off Air, how often are you rocking pit Pull?
Every day? Then? He has at least four songs in My Favorite Songs playlist on Spotify.
Do you feel me? Do you feel okay about yourself when you come on?
Aaron?
Just lie like this?
You're lying, iereat I feel great about myself. I feel great about myself when I tell the truth about mister three h five, mister Worldwide. You're tapping your toe. I know, like I can't see you. And that's why you feel comfortable lying about this. It's a bit for you to be like, Oh, I don't like pitbull. I know it's in your car. I know it's I know it's on your on your pill at home.
Come on, it's very much not. But how you been, man, it's been a while. Tell us give us an up date. You've been all over the place.
I've been good. I feel like, Uh, there's been a how do I put this, there's been a pregnancy with my schedule. I don't mean that it's like a I just that there is. It's my schedule is growing constantly and I'm just waiting for that to to just explode and just not have that anymore. And I feel like now that we're down to one game a night, I feel like that birth has happened.
So your water has broken. You're no longer traveling broken?
Yeah, Like it's just like now I'm like, I'm like, what do I even do with my time? Now? There one game a night, one game a night. I feel like I don't even have a job anymore. This is incredible.
Where are you right now?
I'm in my apartment. This is crazy. I just been a week in a norns and trying to do my job and have fun at the same time was insane.
Did you behave yourself even kind of?
I mean yeah, I mean I got my work done.
Okay, that's all that matters. As long as you get the work done, you can do whatever you want, all.
Right, Zach, We got to start here. The lottery's rigged. Everyone hates utah, no one loves jazz. Okay, So the fixes and what's going on? Man?
How do we fix this?
Uh? Well my my My solution is simple. Is one one we we we we lament tanking all year, right or at least half the year, or like this is bad, this is a bad it's bad for the product. And then the teams that tank don't get rewarded the last at least the last three years, and they're like, well, this is this is unfair. They did all this tanking, then you get rewarded and that's not that's not how
that's supposed to go. So to eliminate tanking and to make this a more fair process, just it's a it's an unwined lottery one and fourteen chance you miss a playoff one fourteen. That way, there's no incentive to be as bad as the Wizards and the Jazz and the Hornets were this year. And in order to kind of try to stack the odds in your favor, is you know, to get that fourteen percent one in fourteen, like I just,
I think it's a simple solution. I will never believe that teams are going to tank out of the playoffs in order to get a one in fourteen chance at the number one pick, Like I just, I think that is so ridiculous and fails to understand how NBA teams operate. And I think it will bring a better product to the to the last couple months of the season.
Certainly, well while we're in the space, even though I am risking insulting your intelligence, and I find the conversation intellectually embarrassing. We do live in the modern day and age where if your guy doesn't win an election, you cry that it's stolen and you storm the capitol. And if your guy, if your team, if your team, I mean, I'm not saying it's not I mean, let's be clear, I'm not saying that wasn't the right thing to do. I'm just painting a picture. If your team didn't win,
the ref got paid. If your kid doesn't make the team, the coach doesn't like you, Like, we cannot take l's in our society. So I am doing radio in a city full of people that believe this thing is rigged.
Can you help us understand why it very much is not?
Well? I mean, look, I can't be certain that it's not. I do know that there.
Are you don't know what you just did. Oh no, hey, Porter, shut the tax line down. I don't want to hear from anybody.
Oh I know. All I know is that I know several people that were in the room that that the lottery happened in. They believe it's on the up and up. They watched it, they experienced it. I got to take their work for it. I don't think that, you know, maybe we should check their bank accounts, but I don't think that, you know, there was some large sum of money or some you know, unmarked bills and a Duffel
bag given to them. Like I like, we've had this process viewed by the media for a long time, and they write about it, they talk about it every year, and so you know, based on on knowing that, you know, I maybe I need to see it myself, but I feel like I feel like at this point, it's it seems it seems like pretty hard to rig. At the same time, there are some very coincidental, you know, moments in this lottery history that seem hilariously you know, pointed
in one direction. I think it's I think it's funny. It also doesn't affect me negatively, so it's easy for me to find it funny. I understand why certain fan bases are upset. I just, man, it's hard to imagine you could rig that. But you know, everything's rigged these days if it doesn't go your way, like you said.
Well, if I could speak for jazz fans, I just was hoping Mike Pence would do the right thing.
That's where I'm at with it.
I mean, look, I think maybe he should be in the room for the lottery.
Yeah, I mean, I'm an idea.
Man.
Look, here's the deal.
The one team that could not win the thing to not inspire conspiracy theories won the thing.
Like that's that's that's what.
Happens for sure. And we had the same thing with New Orleans twice, right with the Anthony Davis draft and the Zion Williamson draft, and you know Cleveland wins it the year Lebron leaves, Like I mean, look, you have these moments where it does seem awfully coincidental Lebron, you know, the Lebron Draft, when you know Cleveland gets the number one pick, the Chicago gets it, when Derrick Rose is uilable, Like, yes, there are times where it seems impossible for this stuff
to happen, and and you can point towards whatever, like it feels like those things where if you want to believe it, you can find a way to twist it right. It is so funny. I mean I was doing I was doing a you know, video or something for the athletic and we're doing this thing of like the best like who I wanted to see when the lottery and who I didn't want to see when the lottery of this, and I almost put in the top five of teams I want to see the lottery Dallas, And then I thought,
now that's ridiculous, sense that could happen. And then of course, like as it gets down to there in the top four, I thought, oh my god, like they won this thing before I even saw the top like who won? Who was positioned in the top four, you just knew, like, of course they won this, like it's it's too funny. Well, I guess it's not funny to a few fan bases, but to me, it was too funny for it not to be them.
Yeah, and for comedic purposes, not just Dallas at one, but the freaking Spurs it too, like give me a break?
Bad?
But all right, would it have been what do you would it have mattered? But I mean, I guess Jazz fans getting getting fifth like it sucks no matter what. But would they have felt better if it was the Spurs at one in Dallas at two or it doesn't matter.
I don't think it matters.
I mean, as much as it's stinging folks around here that the Jazz fall to five. The other thing that you look at is you're already if you're the Jazz, you're already a mile behind OKC. You're already a mile behind even Houston and all the You know, you're a mile behind most of the teams in the West, but
maybe some of the other teams are within shouting distance. Now, two of your Western Conference piers will will add two really good players to two rosters that already have a lot of really good players on them.
Yeah, and that I mean that's fair. I mean I think the good news and maybe this is being mean, but like the good news is like you get out of the Ace Bailey situation, right, we think Like I think that, like, if you finish in that top two or three, you probably end up having to take him if you don't get the number one pick. And so maybe you, like I everything you read about and see about him, like it just seems like that's a guy like you kind of have to take in that zone.
But I don't think he'll fallow. I mean, maybe we'll fall the five. I don't know. He just measured it like six seven. Yeah. I thought he was six to ten this whole time.
Yeah.
And if you fall I mean, maybe you view that as a win. Yeah, I think you do.
I mean unless you fall in. I mean, look, you know the.
Deal around here, folks are like, well, we can't get Cooper Flax, so let's get Conkinepple. It's like, let's not just do the best white guy possible, maybe get the best player.
Who do you think? Who do you think is realistic at five?
Though? It's a good question, Like, I mean the contint thing is like, yeah, like you could get a six five guy who plays like a six to one Like like, I like, he's good, he's skilled, but he plays so small. Yeah, I like, I don't understand the draw of a guy who plays so small for for what his height actually is. I mean, I guess in the five range, like I've seen Trey Johnson, Like, I think Trey Johnson's really good, Like I don't. I don't think you want Derek Queen.
I definitely don't think you want Conkiniple. I don't think Jeremiah Fears is like the right guy there. I'm a big Now you watch guy, like, I think there's so much potential there. And I know you have Walker Kessler as the center, but like, I just think that there is so much raw potential there and it's not like, oh, you've got to teach this guy's skill. He has great touch, he has great feel for the game. He's a good defender,
he's a good rebounder, he's a good offensive player. His teammates rave about him, Like, I think that that is the guy with the highest upside outside of Cooper Flag and Dylan Harper. Now he may not reach that, but if your whole organization for a decade plus has been about we get guys and we developed them, and we bring that out of him. To me, that's the guy to develop.
Yeah, it's it's an intriguing point. And yeah, the Walker stuff might be a little bit redundant. But I wonder if you think the Jazz have what it takes to I don't think it, you know, And even Tim McMahon reported this week that the ownership in Dallas has handed the edict down, like Nico, you're not allowed to trade it. Okay, we are keeping it and we are drafting Cooper Flag,
So stay out of the room. But do you think there's any world where san Antonio looks at Daron Fox and Stefan Castle and says, Dylan Harper is a little redundant and maybe somebody can grab number two. Do you think the Jash get involved in something like that.
I think they absolutely absolutely should. I mean, I think with their with their you know, kind of treasure trove of picks and their young guys, and even I mean, if I'm I know, this sounds maybe a little ridiculous, or maybe it doesn't. I don't know, if I'm Utah, maybe this isn't getting enough back, and you've got to figure out a way. I would dangle out Larry marka then like hey you want this guy next to Wenby.
Here's a shooter that will spread the floor. We got we go get the number two bad and you really start like, all right, you believe in Dylan Harper, Like I mean, look, I know the marketing and everything. Dylan Harper is way better than Isaiah Collier and can't George just went way better, way better, right, Like you don't have to do that thing anymore where it's like, oh, you pass John Stockton's record, like like he's legit, He's a legit point guard prospect, and so like you need
more back than just the number two pick. Lowry is obviously awesome, but like you maybe have to get aggressive in that. And since you're now accepting that you're in a rebuild one year into a three year rebuild, now you can actually lean into it and and go get whatever that is and maybe bring in you know, whether that's a Kelton Johnson, maybe it's maybe you. I mean, I don't know if they would do two and Stephan Castle,
like that seems aggressive. I don't think they would do that, but like you, they have a lot of pieces that you can go get and maybe get involved in three seen deals. Like I just I think there, I think it would make sense for the Jazz to be very aggressive with trying to go grab a higher pick in this while still holding on to the to the fifth pick where you can still get a very good player.
Yeah, I think I think one of the main issues that you could run into there is san Antonio could probably get a lot for two, right and do they write you know, do.
They do they?
And look, Lowry's really good. So I'm not trying to disparage litar marketing. But you call san Antonio and you offer them five in marketing for two they also have fourteen, You get a late lottery pick and maybe a piece from them, and then you reset and you start over with a legitimate piece because they're not going to be able to get to one to get Cooper Flag. I have all these friends like, hey, they should trade to one,
they should trade up to one and get Flag. I'm like, they should do that, but you need two people to agree to such transactions. So could you get two and fourteen and a piece from san Antonio for five in marketing, or could san Antonio get a lot more than that for two because so many people love doing Yeah, I.
Just I don't know if I just don't know if you need to include five, Like I don't know that those players are going to be out on the market. Like I know there's the talk of Kevin Durant. Do we know that they want to go sell a bunch of assets for a couple of years of Kevin Durant? I don't think that doesn't seem like the move that they would do, Like, you know, for what we know about that organization, I don't really believe that Giannis is going to be on the table. I don't really believe
that Booker is going to be on the table. Like if we're starting to look at you know, star and maybe I'm wrong about all that stuff, but if we're starting to look at like stars who could be available, you know, a player like marketing might be as good as a gift. Now, it doesn't mean you have to make a trade if you're if you're San Antonio, but I don't I don't know that you have to if I'm Utah, I'm not really dangling that fifth pick in that trade unless it is a very aggressive trade market.
They do have all these teams throwing that in, and then you do have to include.
That, do you think. I mean?
Look, I would sound like the biggest hypocrite in the world if I sat here and said, man, there was the wrong approach this year to intentionally lose because I believed it was the right thing to do, and I believed it was the right thing to do when women
Yama was available. After you move on from Mitchell and Gobert, but I also have to acknowledge at this point that since the odds were flattened in twenty nineteen, literally zero of the teams that the Jazz that did what the Jazz tried to do this year have been rewarded with
the number one overall pick. Tim Bontemps had a piece up on the dot com for ESPN citing a number of different front office executives that all seem to be in lockstep that they're glad that the Jazz and the Wizards were not rewarded for having a lack of integrity of trying to build a team that actually competes for real?
Are we moving into a space where you no longer want to lose intentionally, even though in a city like Saul Lake, it does feel like the only way to get a Cooper flag or a generational piece is to have the top one or two picks in the draft.
You know, it's interesting to consider.
The vote for flattening the odds was twenty nine to one, and the one dissenting vote was Sam Presting in Oklahoma City because his point was, we're in Oklahoma City, Like, it's not easy to get stars here. Obviously they've done it, But does the approach change at some point now that the data is in that losing intentionally guarantees you nothing.
I mean it guarantees you nothing. But did anybody watch that twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three's first team. They were pretty terrible.
They were worked out for them.
Yeah, they weren't the worst, but I mean no, Like, the process is the process. Not to go off Sam Hanky on it, you know, but like the process is the process. Like it it is still the best avenue towards getting one of those guys in the draft. Just because it hasn't worked the last three years in terms of the worst team getting that doesn't mean the other teams who have tried you know, have tried to to
to tank and improve their position. I mean, Washington was terrible last year they had with the two pick, you know, Like I mean this year, it was a it was a high profile class and you had two good teams. Well, I mean san Antoni wasn't good, but they were supposed to be good, right, and because Wendy's injury and everything, but you had two good teams or you know, supposedly good team with a lot of talent end up at
the top of the draft. I still believe, Like to me, this is this is reminiscent of like a few years ago, all of a sudden, it was like, hey, I don't know if you want a Big three, you know, I don't know if teams want three superstars instead of two super superstars. And this was before the CBA got changed everything. It's like, no, they want as many stars as they can get, like they like this. We can sometimes overthink this stuff because of the results. The process is still
to get the best odds in your favor. And so until they change it, I still believe that's going to happen. Like if if I'm going to butcher the kid's name, but the you know, aj the kid for that's going to BYU. If he is, you know, the one everyone tanks for next year, and one of those teams tanks and gets him, it's just going to reinforce the tanking process.
Like unless the NBA truly is rigging this thing to get the non tanking teams to to get that top pick to dissuade, you know, anyone from from trying this process, Like that's that's the only thing that's going to make that painting option not actually look attractive.
Yeah, And obviously the reaction this week is President of the moment with what happened Monday night. But what what what does Philly do at three? I mean we've talked Dallas and San Antonio. I mean, technically, they have two really good players that I'm gonna say went healthy because
you have to are still kind of game changers. Do you do you think they could move that pick to try to get Embiid and Paul George and MAXI veteran help or have they seen enough that these dudes just don't stay healthy and we've got to move on.
Yeah? I don't think they move on. I think they're kind of pot committed, at least for another year because who I mean, who knows what you know, what operations or procedures that they'll they'll hope work on embiid for
getting him ready for next playoffs. But yeah, I mean it's a it's a weird position because they can't get a really good talent, right if you do believe that you can develop Ace Bailey into something, if you do believe, you know, one of these other guys is someone who can become a star of Trey Johnson, someone like that. You know, I've seen bj edgecom kind of get uh
mocked there. I you know, I like him. I don't know if that's like number three, pick good crazy athlete, decent shooter, doesn't really move the ball, you know, I I don't. I don't really know that there's a good, you know, natural fit there at three. So I would say you either swing for the guy with the highest potential, and if you think that's Ace Bailey, then you just you do it, and you hope Paul George is an incredible influence in terms of you know, development and professionalism
and everything. Because look, we can make a lot of jokes about Paul George, He's still an incredible player, right, Like like, yes, he can be he can be a punching bag atizer, but he's still an incredible player. And so you do put him, you know, ace under his wing, like you you maybe get a great just mentorship there to to set him on the right path. Darryl Morey said that they plan to keep it. So if you're James Harden, you know, elsewhere in the world, you believe
that he's lying, you know. I don't know, but I think they should explore it. Like I think you that team needs as much better in help as possible. They need, like they need they think guys who can play. Now this isn't a two timeline situation, like they need guys who can who can play and be helping actually play now.
Yeah, no, for sure.
All right, remaining a few minutes to talk about teams that are actually still playing basketball, and we'll start out east.
You know, Zach, you like dogs, I do, all right.
So I've come to the conclusion that Donovan is a golden doodle. And you love golden doodles, and you can bring them to the dog park and sometimes they drop fifty, right, and sometimes they'll win a dog show. And but Indiana's got pit bulls. I mean they just Hey, look, Donovan had plenty of really good playoff games, and he always does. It's just when the moments demand toughness and physicality. We
saw it here and we're seeing it in Cleveland. There's just something about him that doesn't exude that toughness when the moment is is requiring toughness. And he can do a postgame press conference where he drops f bombs and you guys are gonna write this and I'm getting.
In the gym.
I don't know, man, your takeaways from Indiana taking care of Cleveland.
Yeah, it's funny, like I like the past few years, I've been banging this drum of like his playoff reputation is not earned, you know, like this is outdated. I didn't feel that way after this series. I felt like he was making a lot of like the good decisions and the good plays of what he's supposed to do.
And then eventually was looking around halfway through a game, you know, the last one excluded or whichever one they were down forty at, you know, at halftime, like looking around like you know and going, hey, is anyone going to join me here?
Yeah?
Because anyone wanted to play and then he would just kind of have to take this on himself and either run out of gas or he just didn't have it or you know, like you said, like sometimes he's gonna drop fifty and sometimes he's just gonna be a golden doodle that is just there. And and I just that
team is just mentally week. We've seen it for three straight years and every time they have an excuse every time, and when you're on year three, it's like, yeah, but his toe hurt, or yeah but they had this, or yeah but that Like Okay, great, you can't. Yeah but your way to the championship. You just can't. And you're on year three and this year, none of those guys could hit a shot. None of those guys won the ball.
I saw like Donovan just go like, Okay, I guess I have to do this, you know, like you know to like, yeah he can everything you just said is is one hundred percent correct, Like he he can do all those quotes and all that stuff, and it kind of turns you into like the guard version of Karl Anthony Towns in Minnesota, right where like yeah that all that speak is great, but you got to got to deliver at some point, and but I looked around and like Mobley shriveled up. Darius Garland. I know he had
the toe injury and everything. Man, that dude's never been that dude in the playoffs. I'm sorry, like he just like I was having this argument with a couple of friends, like if they had Andrew Nemhart and stead Darius Garland, they win that series. Like you're right, like Indiana's a bunch of dogs. Like those guys are tough, those guys are fearless. Those guys are ready to play in the playoffs.
Nobody on Cleveland was ready to play. And I just I look at that and I think, I think, yeah, you can run it back, and the whole Tatum injury changes things, but they're still gonna be soft next year when it comes to the postseason. I'm still like, what changes?
Yeah, all right, do the Knicks get it done? It feels like they have to get it done tomorrow.
Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I do kind of just think that was like, are you going to get that game where you rally around the Tatum injury and you're at home and shots fall? But man, it is the Knicks, right if anybody was gonna do it, it's the Knicks. And this is still a really good team. Like I actually thought the offense flowed really well and it helps when the shots are falling for Boston, but they were forced to play a more team oriented thing.
They didn't have like two guys who could just go one on one and create stuff. They really had to get into the lane and make that ball move and and and you know we saw that in the second half especially, And so if they can play that way Ian Madison Square Garden, whether the shots fall or not, if they play that style of ball, it's going to frustrate the Knicks. But like I mean, I gotta take the Knicks here, come on, Like I just like I
even the Knicks got to close this one out. We got to get Knicks pacers like round two for this they just I man, I would feel so bad as the Knicks fans if this one goes that way. That can't happen.
Yeah, like I said, I feel like that if they don't get it done tomorrow, man, Sunday is going to be nerve racking tough. Yeah, all right, let's move over to you know, I feel like I was just waiting for Jimmy Butler to be who he was a couple of years ago when he carried the Heat to the finals by himself after Steph went down. But then you look at everything Minnesota can throw at him, and I don't know, I still was kind of waiting for him to take over in a way that just never happened.
And you know, Boston can look really connected without Tatum, and Golden State is just lost without Steph.
So takeaways from Minnesota taking care of our Golden State.
Yeah, I mean they just you know, it's that Miami team was built a certain way to play around Jimmy and maybe if there's more familiarity throughout a season or a couple of seasons, maybe you can find that. But One, there just there's not a lot of shooting on that team when STEP's not there, you know. And and two, like I just I don't know that he was ready
to do that, you know, I don't know that. You know, he's got Jade McDaniels and Jullis Randall's playing the best ball of his life, and they've got you know, Nikkel Alexander Walker, They've got at like, they've just got a lot of guys that they like, like you said that, they can throw at Jimmy and and there's just not a lot of spacing there. And you know, Minnesota's you know, Minnesota might be the better team even when Steph is there.
Like Minnesota is good. Yeah, is a good team. They turned the ball over a lot and they you know, if they play okay see in the next round, they have to clean that up. But that is a team that can't like they're good enough to win a champ.
Yeah, yeah they are.
No, I agree, probably should have been paying more attention to them than most people were.
All Right, final thing.
I won't write Denver off until they're done because of the respect to have for Jokic, But man are they thin and Jamal Murray is questionable with an illness. Okay see, is a five point favorite in Denver Tonight does it end or does it go to seven?
In OKC.
It feels like this series deserves a game seven right now. I also feel like that Game seven could be a forty five point win for the Thunder. Like I don't think we're I don't think we're guaranteed a great finish, but I do feel like we're guaranteed a Game seven I think we're gonna get a great jokicch game. Regardless he had three miserable games, and he was he was fantastic last game, even though his teammates let him down. Is I just the role players at home? They got
to play better. They at least got to hit a couple of shots in the fourth quarter they hit. If they hit like four shots in the fourth quarter, Denver wins that game. Like they hit one, they hit one around him. If they hit four more, they like, they win that game. And so I don't think that's asking a lot. I think, okay, see on the road might struggle a little bit there. So I'm gonna say they get it done. But I have zero confidence in anybody not named Nikolijokic.
I'm with you there, Zach. Good to talk to you, man, it's been too long. Glad the travelers went well, and enjoy the games. We'll chat too, ballet Oh dear nine to do it. It was such a good interview until the end.
All right.
The Great Zach Harper at tak hoops on Twitter writes for the Athletic covers the NBA. He has a newsletter called The Bounce and then does a couple of different podcasts, including Cinfo, which is a fun movie podcast.
He works his tailoff so support his work.