All right, you do realize now at this point we're thirty minutes into the show, and if you count cross talk, the two bumps that I've heard so far are popa Roach and now Pitbull. I've got four hours ahead of me to do. What are you setting me up to fail? I claim no responsibility for the popa roachs thing, and Zach Harper can take responsibility for.
This one so well.
I know Zach's on the show, so I mentally and emotionally prepared myself for the worst bump that we play all week. But on the heels of the popa Roach, I just the compound interest isn't sitting well?
Zach? Happy Wednesday? How are you?
I'm great? Can you just do me one favor when it comes to the stuff?
Okay, all right, what is it?
Don't stop the party?
Okay, alright, that's enough. That's enough.
But Zak, I want to start our interview today with some really good news and I want to see if you are interested in joining the ESPN seven one hundred high excuse me. The ESPN seven hundred side us has been created because our midday host is a guy named Sean O'Connell, and I think guys like you and I. We've been waiting for a guy like Sean to help us launch our business. Sean is a former college football
player and he's also a championship MMA fighter. He want a belt and a million dollars, and he's agreed to use these things, these things that he's accomplished as part of our platform to join the MANI sphere to help young men become better men. Does that make sense?
Yeah? Well, I mean that feels like that feels like that could go a lot of different directions.
Well, ultimately, if we're if we're doing this as a society, then we need a piece of it. Okay, we need a piece of it. We've got to jump on the trainer, get off board. So things, you know, like really good solid advice, because Sean's pedigree will allow us to attract a legion of young men when we can tell them to take cold plunges, drink black coffee, live with gratitude. Yeah,
maximize your potential. I don't know, I just wanted to kind of spitball some other pieces of advice we could use on our new platform.
Yeah. I wonder if here's something that I've been trying to get off the ground for a little bit. As I've noticed this shift to the internet, could everyone just be bleeping normal for once? Could we try that as a society. Could we just chill out and just try to relax and get through life? Or is that too much? Do we just have to be extreme in everything we do?
Now?
Oh a, ready, that would be my coaching is just relax. This whole idea that ooh, life's a movie. I have main character energy all that stuff. No, you're an accountant, you're a you're like a business owner, you're a basketball writer. None of this is a movie. Just get through life and let's enjoy basketball, or enjoy whatever our vices are within reason.
Somebody hasn't been red pilled?
I don't Is that? Is that? Tyler All? I don't know what the red pill is, but I yeah, I don't take a lot of you know, painkillers.
You had to have seen this stuff floating around where it's you know, it's it's the alpha bros teaching all these young men how they can maximize their potential.
I just figured you'd want a piece of the Pies Act. That's all.
I always I try to live by this rule, right, because there are people who want to like want you to know that they're smart, or want you to know that they're funny, or want you to know they're alpha's and all this stuff. And I feel like the people who actually are those things never have to tell anybody.
So just one follow up, It sounds to me that you have no interest in defying the cultural elite that has destroyed your life.
You have no interest.
That is a sequence of words that I do not understand them in that order. Okay, yeah, but like, yeah, maybe I don't know. Do I do I have to? Can I wear sweats? Beta? If I can wear sweats, I'll do just about anything.
All right, Zach.
We can move on because look, yesterday I woke up with an extra pep in my step and I realized it was time for the NBA Cup. I mean, it's a big deal. Went down to the Delta Center. The courts are cool. Yeah, I guess, like, what's I don't know, what's the level of exciting here Now that the NBA Cup is back.
The courts are better than they were last year. There's not that weird runway. I don't know if you saw any of the any of the games that had non great courts but the Blue ones and the Green ones are crazy. They look insane on TV. The Great ones like we're fine, those are fine. But yeah, I'm in, Like I've throw myself into this NBA Cup. I'm I'm super into it. I'm I'm here to like celebrate it.
I'm here to trying to make it more of a thing, because I do I do believe it breaks up, you know, kind of the monotony of the of the first half of the season, and and maybe you shouldn't have that in the first half of the season, but it's funny, like I, you know, we I see all these people and look, if I'm about to offend anybody, get over it. I think anyone discussing awards at this point is just out of ideas. Like it's just out of ideas, right,
Like we're not even at Thanksgiving. People like what is this person higher on your MVP ladders? Like I don't have an MVP ladder, Like it's it's November, Like that doesn't exist to me until maybe mid January. And so I feel like once we get fast, you know, past the first couple of weeks of the season, and it's like, all right, I think this team's good or right that
team hasn't lost yet, This is good. I think we then get into just like all right, well, it's gonna be a while until Christmas, and it's gonna be a while until the trade deadline. I think this breaks this up perfectly. I don't know that everyone is bought in who's playing in it yet, but I do. I like it, like I'm in on this.
Well, it's certainly and I've always liked this about about pro basketball. And sometimes they don't get a ride, sometimes they do, but at least they'll try new things, you know, And that's one of the things I've always liked about the NBA. And I think Adam Silver is a forward thinking, front facing commissioner in a way that David Start maybe wasn't.
And we could debate, you know, which approach is better, but I wanted to get from you, like, when you talk to people around the league, is there buy in with this, players, coaches, teams or is it still kind of like this weird new thing that people are trying to put their arms around.
Yeah. I don't think it's universally bought in yet. From what I can see, I think there's some people that are like, yes, this is great, and there's some people like this just feels like another game on a court. I think once you get into this position of the teams who do advance to the single elimination tournament portion of it, I think that's when it takes off. I mean, that's when people are bought in because they're like, Okay,
trip to Vegas, extra money, all this stuff. But until that happens, I still think the group play is a foreign concept to a lot of the people participating.
So went down to the game last night, and you know, the Suns were without Kevin Durant, which didn't matter at all. Really wasn't all that uncomfortable. Booker got going in the fourth, and obviously he's a tough cover. Grayson Allen hit like three straight threes in one point. Phoenix rolls the Jazz one twelve, or excuse me, one twenty to one twelve.
The building continues to be full.
I don't have anything interesting really to ask you about the Jazz outside of as will continue to kind of try to understand whether or not these young players are coming along for the ride. And one of the undeniable bride spots has been Kyle Philipowski. You know, after Taylor Hendrix went down, it opened up about thirty minutes or so, and for the most part, Will has elected to go with younger players. Now, not every single game, like John
Collins played thirty four minutes. If you want to know where we're at, John Collins has probably been the best player on the team this year.
That sentence is kind of all you need to know.
But Philipowski eighteen points, six boards, a couple assists, two blocks, And I had a really good seat, so I was watching him pretty closely. He matches up with the physicality certainly in NBA basketball, I mean, you know, the late pick certainly. Is there a chance maybe they found diamond in the rough year with Kyle Philipowski playing well early on?
Yeah, maybe I'm trying to like not have any any bias in this because I just going into the draft. I thought last year at Duke he was terrible, Like I really did, Like I just was, this is not the prospect we thought he was going to be. And yeah, I thought he underperformed. I thought he played soft. I thought he wasn't prepared to be a you know, a big man in the NBA. And I'll admit, like I've been impressed, Like, I didn't think he would play this well over the last week or so. And I do
think there's something there. I think maybe last you know, last season at Duke aside, I do think maybe we should look at the whole of like, all right, he was pretty highly regarded in in high school and and you know, first moments at Duke like looked pretty good. And last year, you know, really really struggled it just in terms of looking like he was progressing. But you get him in the NBA system them, you get on with his Jazz coaching staff, and yeah, I can't deny
that he's looked really good. I'm still not buying it, just because I want to see more. It's such a small sample size, but it's been at least for someone who didn't think much of the pick at the time, like I, it's very encouraging so far.
So look, I just there's nothing. There's nothing to talk about with the Jazz. I can't in good faith continue to ask you.
About Cooper flag Well, you know this is it's a.
Long way of me getting exactly to where you just landed. I could keep asking you why Kiante can't make shots because he continues to shoot horribly for the most part.
He'll have a good game here there.
But so you know, we keep talking about Cooper Flag, and we keep talking about the potential of maybe that actually happening and Lady Luck shining on Salt Lake in a way that it never has And there's no guarantee here. There's no guarantee ever. I mean, ask Detroit, Atlanta. I think had the ten thoughts, they move up to one. So the underlying fear here is a fan base who
has been spoiled, never have had a championship. But usually the rebuild here goes two years, maybe three, and then they're kind of back to going in the right direction. They're really bad, and seeing it up close last night, I'm like, dude, this is It's going to be such a long year.
And the permeating fear is they go through this.
And then the ping pong balls pop up and it's like seven or eight, right, But if it is one, and if it is Cooper Flag, what are you hearing from scouts who actually know exactly who they think this kid could be should he land and saw Lake? What sort of player fully baked will Cooper Flag make in the NBA?
I mean, look, I don't think I don't think we're looking at like a Zion situation, right, Like, I don't think you're looking at a dominant player in the traditional sense of like get that guy the ball thirty forty
times a game, get out of the way. I don't like, maybe his game gets to that, but I think we saw the good and the bad of Cooper Flag last night in that Yeah, there were times where he was just completely overwhelmed, and then you get to end a game situations like hey, Cooper, go create and like, yeah, his handle's weak, his jump shot form is not clean, right, Like, there's there's a lot to clean up within his game.
But defensively, he's a monster. I Mean I've kind of been, you know, discussing this with people, and I've come to the conclusion of I think he's you know, white Shawn Marian with more of a kN act for scoring, right, and and people are like, oh, but that's still a really good play. Like, yeah, I'm not saying he could be a bus I just don't think he's going to
be as of what we've seen so far. I don't think he is this like absolute number one on a championship team, Like, you see that progression, you see all that, and I'm not saying it can't it can't get there. Like he can develop a ton He's super talented, he's
super athletic, he's got great instincts for the game. There are just certain ball skills that he doesn't have cleanly that at the college level that I look at the NBA level, I'm like, I if he can't, like he can't really cleanly dribble into a jump shot, what does that look like? Like? Right, Like, what are you creating there? The good news is that, all right, let's say they don't get one, it's like five or six dudes. Right, there's a deep it's a deep pool for trying to
get a franchise guy. I'm actually got I'm gonna butcher. His name, the big kid from the Sudan maluac or. I can't remember how to say his name, But to me, I look at this and I'm like, all right, this reminds me a little bit of twenty fourteen, where we had Andrew Wiggins, we had Jabari, we had Gordon, we had Dante Exit, we had all these dudes, right, and then Embiid, who was a highly regarded prospect, but still
very raw, ended up being the guy. And I'm not saying he's gonna be Embiid, but it kind of reminds me that I, like, you have all these guys like, yeah, that guy's really good. This guy's really good at that. But this guy's so raw and so big and so athletic and still has skills. I wonder if he's gonna end up being the best player.
Yeah, and Embiid was four.
I think I think he was a fourth pick if I remember that correctly, in that draft something like that, and certainly ended up doing something like that. Yeah, So let's expand the conversation because the fact of the matter is, unless Cooper Flag is awesome day one next year, they're still so far away, right, and so if you look at their books, I mean, essentially after next year, Collins breaking news, John Collins has a player option for twenty seven milk.
He's gonna go ahead and snag that they've got. I would love it. If he didn't, he'd be like, dude.
I had a I just had a baller year for a team that won nine games.
Okay, sign me to a long term deal.
But my guess is he's snagging that they've got one more year with Sexton, one more year with Clarkson. The long term contracts are all the young guys. It's Hendrix, it's Williams, it's Keyante, it's you know, Philipowski, Walker Kessler, since Isaiah Callier.
So they've got all their young players.
You want to throw Johnny Juzeng in there, fine, spot up shooter money. All those guys are under contract for at least the next four some five years, depending on options and such. So let's let's have fun here on a Wednesday, because jazz fans are depressed, and say, Lady Luck shines on the Jazz throw a Cooper flag next to Lowry marked in who is the only long term piece built in? And then you bring back all the young pieces. You do the thing where you figure out
what you have. They're still probably not close. So how long do you think Generally speaking, jazz fans should expect this team to continue to lose games intentionally to try to find talent. So at some point, yes, they are ready to at least compete for a playoff spot.
How long do you think this is going to take?
I mean, I think like from all accounts, like the twenty twenty six draft might be loaded too, right, Like, yeah, you've got the Boozer Twins, but I mean there's a bunch of dudes in that class who look like they could have real, real high potential, And so I think the Jazz most likely will be really bad this year going into this twenty twenty five draft. Right as we've seen, I don't think there's some big turnaround happening, and then I would expect them to be better next year, but
still very young and losing games and frustrating ways. Hopefully I get blown out, But yeah, like I think it's too I think it's you know, two more seasons counting this season as one of those of what to expect.
But that's you know, you're like, you're right, like deaf fans are spoiled in the sense of like they don't really have down times, right, they have like a year or two here and there, but they don't really have like, yeah, you're probably looking at between the last two seasons where it was all right, this is fine, you know, there's some talent here to this season and probably next season, going wow, these tickets are expensive for such a bad team, Like, yeah,
you're probably going through that, but I would expect, you know, right after the twenty twenty sixth summer, this team should be primed and ready to like really ascend, almost maybe in kind of what we've seen from Houston the last year and a half.
Yeah, Scott Laden, Kevin O'Connor, and Dennis lindsay all masterfully worked their way through a very quick space of a rebuild to at least get you. And look, I was never a huge fan of the whole like Al Jefferson situation where you know, you give him the ball for forty eight minutes so he can get you, you know, twenty six points and eighteen boards.
But that team was never gone anywhere.
But you know, Scott Layden, you know, and then Kevin O'Connor and then Dennis lindsay was the one who decided to break that team down. And the last time we were kind of dealing with a team like we have now is that twenty thirteen twenty fourteen year, which was Ty Corbyn's final season and Dennis lindsay's first real season
taking over from Kevin O'Connor. And that year it was kind of the same thing where they brought in some overpriced vets just to make sure they're following the rules to pay players guys like Andres Biedrin's and Marvin Williams, Richard Jefferson at the end of his career, Brandon Rush. But then you know, Trey Burke didn't work out. Alec Burks had a he's still in the league. He's had a good career. Derek Favors worked out, and his Freedom excuse me, and his Canter now known as Ennis Freedom
was on the roster, never fully baked. Go Beart was a rookie. We know what happened there. Gordon Hayward of course on that team, we know what happened there. So it was kind of like a similar thing. But within a year or two, even losing Hayward, they draft Mitchell. Go Bear kind of grows and suddenly they're back to forty five fifty wins. And that took about two or
three years. So this is the first time Zach and I've been around this team since the eighties, right, This is the first time where I think in the past we can look at this and say this has taken two or three years. It's already been two. This is year three. It's probably three more years. This is gonna be the first time. That'll be like a six seven year old. Now, it happens in a lot of places,
so I'm not painting that will only happen here. But is that more of a indictment on the new leadership or is it more of a commentary on how to build a roster in the modern day NBA in Salt Lake City?
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's I don't think it's commentary on the new leadership. I think they're doing much like you know, we've talked about as a bunch of yeah, you should have sold out the year before, right, like you should have just bailed on any wins and gone after Wemby. And you can make the argument of like, yeah, but look at Detroit and look at these teams where they tried that and didn't work. It's like, yeah, but look who sin Antonio tried it in it work, rightI
wasn't trying to win games the year before Wendy. They knew like, all right, we got a fourteen percent chance or whatever it is of this kid. That's good enough for us. And so that's my only criticism of them, is they let pride get in the way for that one season. But I say, like they're doing smart things. They acquire picks, they they're drafting, well, like they're not
drafting stars, but they're drafting guys. We'd be like, yeah, that guy should be in the rotation for ten years, twelve years, right, And so I think it's just part of it is bad timing. And I know that's a very unsatisfying, you know, answer for this stuff, because it can't really be explained or fixed. But sometimes like you just miss out on a trade, or you just miss out on a draft pick, or you just miss out
on a lottery chance, and that's part of rebuilding. And I don't think you'll you know, you're you're talking like, yes, this thing gets pushed maybe to five, six, seven years of an actual rebuild, But I don't think you're twenty wins a season in those you know, every year for those like I think it's you know, maybe nine this year, she said, and then it's you know, twenty, and then it's twenty eight, and then it's thirty four, and by like the third year of that, you see it and
it's like, yeah, this team's competing for a play in tournament. I also don't know that you look at the landscape of the West and it's crazy this year. I don't know that it's crazy every year moving forward, things change so dramatically and so rapidly in this league that the landscape that the Jazz are facing in two years in the West might look, you know, pretty easy compared to thinking you've got, you know, thirteen teams ahead of you right now.
So I thought last night was maybe.
And I haven't watched you know, with this this job in this sport, or excuse me, this job in this marker.
Right now.
It's a lot of football, a lot of college football. So I've watched a lot of Jazz and then some other marquee games. I haven't watched every single NBA game, not even close, but in a vacuum, I think the scene in Golden State last night with Clay coming back and Steph being Steph was probably the marquee NBA game of the early calendar so far.
I've always been a Clay guy. I don't know how you're not.
But I wonder how you kind of digested that scene and then Steph doing Steph things down the stretch, which is always so much fun to watch.
It was cool man like, It's just it was pure entertainment, right, Like I don't have a dog enough. I don't care about the Maps. I don't care about the Warriors. I appreciate the good players on the team. I want those teams to be successful because I think that it is good for the league when teams with these types of stars are successful. But ultimately, if they don't make the playoffs, no, you know, no skin off me, Like, I think it's
gonna be fine. And so watching last night, I thought the Warriors, and you kind of knew they were gonna do this, but I thought the Warriors did just a first class job of welcoming Clay back, right, like, didn't try to play it cool, like like, no, you mattered
to us. You still matter to us, and we want you to know that, right, And so they like they love bomb him and all this stuff, and then and and then he comes out and he plays great, and he played great in the fourth quarter and they build you know, a seven you know, a seven point lead, and a six point lead with like three minutes left, and then it's just Steph Man like Stef You know, I thought Clay's comment afterwards talking about being on the other side of the flurry for once and and all
ending it was like, yeah, on the other side of it, it sucks. It's like it's a fun reminder of just yeah, like Steph is that guy, Like we all you know. One
of my favorite quote Clay quotes ever was this. I mean there's years ago and someone had asked him as Curry was like really taken off, you know, you know he's such a humble guy and you know about and Clay just cut him off and was like, you see the shots he takes, Like there's nothing humble about that, right, Like it's just such a it's such a great line.
And to like watch him process that. He watched him do the shimmy Steph shaking his head Steph, you know, hits him with the night night and everything like that's just like that's basketball, that's the NBA and entertainment. And we can get so cynical and granular about all this stuff, but ultimately, like, if you love basketball, last night was one of the best shows you could have in the regular season.
What has Denver figured out, at least for now, I mean I hesitate to really buy into what they've been doing as of late, because we do see a positive effect of Russell Westbrook on their bench for now, and Christian Brown is playing a lot better. But I've just I've been out on Westbrook for a long time when it comes to having him on your team to play winning basketball and come playoff time, he still thinks he can shoot her from three.
Like if any coach.
Could be like, dude, just don't do that, please, just don't do that, and you can do some other things maybe at some but no, I've been saying this for six years, Like he still thinks he's the ball dominant MVP from OKAC and he's not. But they have one five straight to get back on track, including some good wins over the Thunder and the MAVs and such.
Have they figured something out here?
I mean, look, they were probably already is gonna beat Miami, but they played a Miami team that, you know, six minutes in Butler got hurt, right, Like, so now they're on the flight, Like that's not a very good team without Jimmy Butler. Two good wins there, you know, but they also they've kind of barely been winning. They barely beat the Raptors twice, right, Like they struggled against a team that I think is two and ten, but they did get wins. I mean, just it's Jokics. Man Like
Joki is just unreal. Like they're dealing with injuries. You know, Aaron Gordon's out to wail. Murray had a concussion for a couple of games. I actually thought Russ played pretty decently in those games. Michael Porter Junior's turned around a little bit, as you mentioned, Christian's turned around a little bit. Michael Malane is actually let Peyton Watson play, which is weird. You know, you're probably your best defender with Aaron Gordon out comes in and makes some clutch plays. What a
novel idea to have him on the floor. But man like Jokic is on this crazy tear. He's hitting like fifty eight percent of his three pointers, and you know, he's just he's that good. They can't defend at all, but their offense is is gold right now. And so that's that's what's working right now.
All right, before I say you loose, and I asked you this last week, so I'm going to pose it in a different way. The only Cavs game I've seen so far is the win they had over the Warriors, and Donovan was actually not good that night. It was more of like Darius Garland played really well, so do Devan Mobley, Ty Jerome came off the bench. You couldn't miss. But you look at Donovan's numbers, and he's been doing
what Donovan does in the regular season. And those of us that are out here and watch Donovan have some good moments in postseason, it's incorrect to say that he's never played well in the playoffs.
That's not correct.
But there have also been so many moments when there's so much on the line where he just puts blinders on. What are you willing to say about what you think maybe Cleveland can do come in playoff time? Because he has twelve to oh is impressive, But and Donovan knows this.
He said it last year when they lost in the playoffs.
Again, He's like, at some point I got to break through, and he is such a talent that you do leave space for maybe that potential learning curve to take place. What are you willing to say today about who Cleveland could become playoff time?
I mean, I think they can get to the conference finals. I don't know how much of that is them and how much of that is just a weak Eastern Conference that you know, who knows that the Sixers get it together? And who knows that the Bucks get it together? And those are two teams we're counting on. I'm not convinced that Cleveland is better than New York in the seven game series. I don't think they'll I think it would still be a quick out against against Boston for them.
But their offense looks great. They're shooting the lights out. I don't know. I don't know if the shooting is sustainable for them. That's the that's the big questions. Those shots don't follow them. What does it looks like? I love what they're doing with Evan Mobley though. I love what Kenny Atkinson has done with Evan Mobley, like he's he's using him more. He's using him more almost as a as a point big man, and he's making good decisions.
He's been such a monster defensively. And it's good to see Darius Garland back to playing at an all star level. You know, this could be the sign the start of them being the new Celtics with how they play. They could also be you know the Hawks are you know you're mustless jazz fans or the Jazz from a few years ago where they kill in the regular season and then it just falls flat in the postseason. I don't like.
I don't I didn't really answer your question. I don't know what to expect out of them, but I do like what I'm seeing right now.
Yep, fair enough, fair enough, all right, man, appreciate the time. NBA Cup time. Try to control your emotions, and if you have any other advice. Are you taking a cold plunge tonight?
I mean, yeah, cold plunge. I'm eating nothing but raw liver.
That a guy.
That a guy, and set the house to sixty two degrees when you go to sleep.
Remember that.
Oh, I don't know if I can have it that hot.
Fair enough. Thanks for the time, dude, chat too, Hi, buddy, appreciate it.