What if I just leaned into it? What if I started like digging pit Bull? Would you still play pit Bull? If I actually because you only do this to ruin my Friday. If I leaned into it and pretended I enjoy it, could we stop it? No? No, if you lean in, we're gonna We're gonna lean in as well.
We're married to it.
Well, you know what that means. Ultimately, when pit Bull is played on this radio show, it means it's time for the regular appearance of one Zach Harper on a Friday afternoon. Mister Harper, Happy Friday. Where do we find you, Los Angeles? How'd you get out of going to Oklahoma City?
I'm doing these live streams for the NBA for the pregame show on their app, so you know, it's better if I'm in a stable internet connection.
Well, congratulations to you, sir, Thank you. Is this the first time? Is this the first year you've done that? And I noticed I saw some of your social posts. Is this the first year you've done that?
No?
I did it. I did it last year. It's just it was such a quick finals we didn't hard to notice.
Tell everybody where they can go find it.
Zach, you just go straight to the NBA app or I believe on any of their socials, Instagram, TikTok an that stuff.
Yeah.
All right, well let's start with the finals and we'll move in some other directions, including a higher that was made out this way. But I'll tell you what man like, I feel like. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure who you picked. My guess is, like everybody else, you probably picked OKC. I picked OKC in five. They'd have to win four straight now, and maybe that's still on the table. And I don't know what else to say about this
Pacers team. And I just hate the Pacers, but I'm just so impressed that they just don't quit until the zero's are on that clock. Your takeaway from Game.
One, Yeah, I mean I had the Pacers to win last night, but I had Thunder and six. I mean, this team's just good. You know, they're really good, and they don't give up, like you said, and you know it's funny, like you know, this is what their fifth comeback in this postseason down fifteen or more.
It's just absurd. And there's a.
Point where I have to think that even a team like the Thunder, you know, there's a point where you're up double digits and it's getting late into the fourth quarter, and then once they get into that single digit territory, You've got to know what's possible here, right, not just because it's an NBA game, because it's this Pacers team.
And it wasn't just Tyber's Saliverton going nuts. It was it was Obi Top and hit some threes, and Miles Turner hit some threes, and Nemhart hit a shot and Paskel Siaston got to rebound.
It.
It's just it's everybody, you know, no one had a good game. Everyone just had solid games last night. And for you to force them into twenty five turnovers and only get eleven points off those turnovers is ridiculous. I mean, that is just incredible, you know, incredible basketball by the Pacers. It's rare. It's almost incomprehensible to say a team played great basketball after turning the ball over twenty five. But
they reacted well to those moments. Because we've seen so many teams, i mean, throughout this playoffs, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Denver Nuggets, the Minnesota Timberwolves, they get those turnovers and they just let it defeat them and the Pacers they're just not built that way.
Was there any point last night that you thought Oklahoma City had a wrapped up. I've been talking to our guest today, so watching the game last night with a few buddies, and when SGA hit that layup that I think put them up seven with like ninety seconds left or whatever, one of my buddies like, yeah, Okay, that should probably do it. I'm like, okay, you haven't watched
at all, and I get it. I mean, you and I are basketball sikos, but it's you know, the Knick series was interesting because there's an emotional thing and I just know as a Nick fan, if it can go round, it probably will. But at no point did I think Oklahoma City had that wrapped up, even when they're up fifteen in the fourth, when they're up seven with ninety eight, At any point did you think, okay, o case, he's got this.
And when SGA went up for that jumper on that final possession that would have put it up three. As he goes up for that jumper, I thought he was gonna hit it. And if he hits that, I thought, okay,
they're probably good. Even though it only pushes it to three, and obviously you can easily tie the game on the next possession, but we know that the thunder are then going to foul and we're gonna get into that whole nonsense of intentional fouls there, right, So as he goes up for I'm thinking, all right, he's got this, They've got this once that goes in. Once that missed, and they got the ball to Halliburn and I saw they weren't calling time out. That's when I thought, oh no,
this is gonna happen again. And then they didn't throw a double at Halle, they didn't rush him at all. They let him just walk into a pull up jumper. And as soon as he let that thing go, you just knew. You just knew, because he's done it for you know, four times now.
In this postseason.
I mean, that guy is just as clenched as it gets.
He is.
And you know, while I do not do first take radio, I do want to ask your opinion, just don't kind of where he exists, like the whole moniker of like is he a superstar is he not? I suppose that's either the Beholder stuff and other people can debate it back and forth, and I certainly wouldn't put him up
there with Jokic or Luca or whoever. But you know, as he continues to silence people, and look, if we're honest, for about thirty minutes, our guy was a wallflower last night, and I'm watching the game, I'm like, where is he?
Where are you?
Like put your stamp on this game? But ultimately winning games the way he has and he is a lead guard, so if he's not scoring, he is doing other things. And he rebounded well last night and he only had three turnovers in thirty nine minutes. Is the main ball handler against one of the best defenses we've seen in a generation. And I'm not saying like is he top five, six or seven, whatever, but like generally speaking, where is his cul de sac in pro basketball right now? Where does he live?
Yeah, he's a superstar. I mean this dude's been doing it.
For two years now. And Okay, he's not Stephanie, he's not SCA. Okay, but we've seeing him prove himself time and time again.
He's a big shot.
Maker like I and he's a guy that's leading a really good team, just led them to the finals.
And look we can't do the thing this year of what we did last year with them.
Last year's like, oh yeah, they got to the Conference finals because of injuries. Yeah, probably right, Like I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I you know, New York got really injured in that series, and I think if New York stays relatively healthy, they end up winning that game seven. This year, you can't say that. I'm not having that with the Bucks. They were beating the Bucks in that series.
No matter what.
I'm not having that with the Calves. They're beating the Calves no matter what. Like that Cavs team is weak. And then and then you know, that Knick series was really good. I think it could have gone either way in a lot of those games and they ended up pulling it out because he was great. And this is a guy that is an elite leader on the court.
He's an elite clutch player. He's one of the best point guards in the world, and you trust him with the ball, and I'm with you, Like there's points where you're like, man, is he gonna put his his stamp on this game? You know, as that game's going on, And I'm not putting him in this category but he's you know, we see that with Steph Curry at times too, right, Like Steph will kind of just kind of by his time by this time, by this time, I think Tyree's kind of lets the game come to him until a
certain point. And a big part of that is while Steph is creating gravity, you know, through his movement and everything, Tyree's is just he's slinging that thing around the court. And he played good defense and as you mentioned, he rebounded really well. You know, he's someone that is still contributing to winning basketball and I think he is a big part of the reason why they don't give up. Even if he's not the one hitting the shots, he's leading that whole thing.
Yeah, and the stat you referenced is the stat that stands out led the show with it, Like Oklahoma City is a lade at forcing turnovers and scoring off of turnovers. But if you're turning twenty four turnovers into eleven points, like there's a world Zach at halftime, Indiana should have been down twenty five, you know. Yeah, And we heard Rick Carlisle in the locker room like it's not good news. We're turning over like this, But it's a miracle. We're
still We're still in the game. And for about man, I don't know, maybe forty minutes of the forty eight Oklahoma City seemed to be in this like we're up between seven and thirteen, and we can't extend it beyond that. But every time they kind of creep closer, you know, we're able to find an answer. But because of their inability to turn those turnovers into points, I'm watching the score and I'm thinking, like, this is so far from over.
So if you're Indiana, you could feel really good about the fact that you're up one zero and you turned it over that much. But do you believe that Oklahoma City will continue to have a problem converting turnovers into points because they've been so elite at it all year long?
No, But you also can't think that you're going to turn over twenty five times? Sure, right, Like this is the tenth game counting the playoffs this year where they've turned it over twenty or more times.
And this, I mean, this is one of the best.
Teams in the league at not turning the ball over. And even Halibert, you know you mentioned the three turnovers. That's a lot for him. He doesn't turned the ball over three times in a game, and all those came in the first half. So he corrected that at halftime, like he didn't have one in the second half, I believe.
And so you know, like Obi Toping looked like he was he was so scared in the first half, and then he settles down hits a bunch of threes in the second half, Like you know, Neee Smith looks scared in the first half, Miles Turner looks scared in the first like they look like, oh you know, it hit them like, oh man, we're in the finals, and then they settled down. I think that's coaching. I think that's leadership, and I think that's the team that is confident that, hey, we can keep coming back.
Now.
I don't think it's good to get down double digits every time. I know they're five and three with this year or this postseason, when they get down fifteen points or more in a game, which is a ridiculous stat and so you don't want to keep doing that, especially
not against a team like the Thunder. But the fact that they are so comfortable down and I got to think like even a team like the Thunder, they could be up double digits in fourth quarter in Game two at home, and if that thing gets the single digits, I don't care how good and confident that team is. That thing starts getting the single digits and they miss a shot here and there. You know that they're thinking, oh no, here it goes again. Because we just saw
that with Cleveland, We saw it with New York. You know, we saw it with Okay see last night, you have to start thinking that.
So the final possession, I thought this was interesting. And honestly, I mean, Rick Carlisle's put on a masterclass all all postseason. So they get the rebound you reference. So when Shaye went up for that shot, first of all, that's the shot he wants, right, he gets the shot he wants, gets a little space, and like you, he elevates him
like that's cash, misses it. They get the board ten seconds left, so they get it Halliburton, and look, Cason Wallace is a dog and he's a good on ball defender, but you want dort On Halliburton in that moment, you just do. And so I wonder because my thought in the moment was Rick saw that Cason picks up Halliburton and likes that matchup because Cason sixty three and Halliburton sixty five, and it's not Dort, it's not Jalen, it is Case and so let's let him do his thing.
Is that how you read that final possession as well?
I think it was simply, we can't let this team get its defense. Yep, you know, I think it could have been anybody on Halliburton, but you're getting single coverage there. They had a time out to burn if things got in trouble, and I think I think Rick Carlile is just one of those guys he trusted, He especially trusts Halliburton to to do what he needs to do and get a good shot. And look, you're right like Case wals Is. I mean, I think if he got more
menaces here, he's probably all MBA or all defense. Right, he's probably all defense, second team, Like he is that good defensively. The problem is Halliburton going to his.
Right, like that's where his sweet spot is. Right.
He's not one of those guys that takes that jumper going to his left. I think Kaylan Cooper does an amazing job covering the Pacers. I think she wrote it something like like a five to one ratio in terms of him going to his right and taking jump shots some ridiculous stat like that that's where he wants to go. He didn't really have to do a step back or anything like. He just kind of he just kind of dribbles into that thing. The question I have for Mark Dagnal,
like where is the double? Where is the swarm? Like you can't help from the from the corner there as he's going towards the right I would send anybody else at him. You can, like anyone else on that team, you get to have the game winning shot. I am not giving that to Halliburton. Anyone Nee Smith, Turner, Siakam, anyone else gets to have that shot. Halliburton doesn't get to get a shot off there. And I think I think we saw both with the change in the starting
lineup for literally no reason. I mean, I thought that was a huge mistake to start off by Mark Dagnall, and then some of that coaching down the stretch, especially that final defensive possession. I think you just saw a little bit of that inexperience there.
I'm glad you brought up the lineup change. That's where I want to go next. So it was not a good Chet game, and Dagnol decided to stagger Chat and Hardenstein. Hardenstatt excuse me, and I thought harden Hartenstein, sorry, Hardenstat was actually better in his seventeen minutes than Chet was in his twenty four. I don't know if it's Chet's
inability to handle physicality that's always been his thing. I don't know if it's too big for the moment, at least for game one case and starts Isaiah comes off the bench. Do you think we'll see that in game two? Or does he go back to the two bigs together.
I don't know why he went away from him in the first place. I mean, Hartenstein can't handle Miles Turner. No offense to Miles Turner, But like, what's the issue there?
I don't get it.
And you got out rebounded by seventeen I think that's what it was. Seventeen Hartstein wrapped nine rebounds in seventeen minutes. Like they completely abandon what was good for them.
I get it. You're like, oh, that team's fast.
You know, we want to make sure we have some speed and some more defense on the floor. You're the best defense in the league when Hardenstein's out there too. I just I don't get it like you shouldn't. You're the favorite, You're the most dominant team regular season NBA history, sixty eight wins. No one can touch you in any of these things. You've got, you know, four different thirty point wins in these in this postseason. Why are you adjusting to the Indiana Pacers before the series even starts.
I just I didn't understand.
That at all. I think you go out there and by putting Chet at the four and using your regular starting lineup, Yeah, Chet's probably gonna struggle a little bit guarding Siaka, but you've got help, and you've got big help, and they've got a great, you know, big to big thing going on offense too, where you know that's that's gonna be really tough.
For Indiana to guard.
I just I thought that was a massive mistake on so many levels, on both ends of the floor. And then even in there in the rotations, I couldn't believe how how staggered those rotations were with those two because I think, you know, against Indiana, you kind of got to be bullied there. I mean, we saw we saw with New York when it was when it was Cad Mitchell Robinson, Like, yes, they lost that series, but when those two were on the floor together it kind of
worked at times. And with Chet and Hardenstein, I think you have to believe that that's going to work against Indiana.
So we've already talked about why if you're Indiana, you of course feel good. A.
You have the lead. B.
You don't believe you're gonna turn it over twenty four times in a game, or certainly nineteen times and a half or whatever. But Indiana shot eighteen of thirty nine from three forty six percent. Okay, see eleven of thirty from three. That's not who they are anyway. Of the sixteen teams in the playoffs, Indiana or excuse me, okay,
see is thirteenth and three point percentage. But if so, we've talked about why Indiana feels good today, because of course they should tell me, if anything, why you think Oklahoma City should still feel good about their chance to the chances to win the series based off of what happened last night.
I mean you you they took Mike Worganoff had had a stat something like they took fifteen more shots within four feet of the rim, you know, like it.
Like, so you've got a.
Lot of shots inside, you shot more free throws, you committed fewer fouls. You know, you did force a ton of turnovers, and a lot of those were live ball turnovers. I think you have to think that you're gonna even if you force ten fewer turnovers next game. I think you have to believe you're going to create more points off those turnovers, because I think the stat I saw going into last night's game is they were scoring like one point three six points per possession on steals during
the postseason, which is a ridiculous number. I mean it's like it's like scoring one hundred and thirty six points per one hundred possessions, which would which would be an insane level of offensive efficiency. So, like you have to think that as you're creating live ball turnovers, you are going to convert those. Shay had a good game, Chet was miserable. Jalen Williams shot the ball really poorly. No one else really stepped up outside of lou Dort, you know,
hitting those threes. So I think you have to think believe, like, you didn't play that good of a game and you still should have won. And you missed on essentially a last second shot. You missed that opportunity. So they can play a lot better and they and they typically do play a lot better. And we've seen how they bounce back. I mean, they lost Game one to Denver at home and then came back and won by like forty three points, so we know that they'll respond.
You just have to.
I just do not think that they can keep up with this altered lineup. I think they have to go back to what works for them.
As your opinion, I know you said you chose Indiana to win Game one in Oklahoma City to win the series. I don't think it's going to be five games, but I still kind of lean towards OKC. As your opinion on how this thing is going to play out changed after Game one.
I'm still sticking with Thunder in six, but I feel, you know, less confident in it for sure.
I mean Indiana.
It's not so much of what Indiana showed because I think they did what they do right. They shot well, and they've shot well all postseason. You know, they're almost like fifty forty eighty as a team for the for the postseason during this run, So you know, they did what they're supposed to do on offense outside of the turnovers, which they really rarely do. I'm I'm more uneasy with the changes that Okay, see man, and not to keep like,
you know, hammering that point home. But I need to see how they adjust in game two and if they go back to their regular style, because I just I really don't like when the team changes up that kind of strategy. It reminds me a little bit. This is gonna be, you know, kind of extreme. But remember when when the Mavericks, you know, back in two thousand and seven, just all of a sudden started changing everything they did
against that Warriors team that we believe Warriors team. You know, they got what they got away from their identity pretty quickly in that series. And Don Nelson knew at that point. He was like, oh, we you know, we got this. And so I think that I think that that that's a little bit of a reminder here of if the Thunder keep adjusting to what Indiana is doing rather than adjusting what they do, which I think there's a big difference.
I do think the Thunder might be in trouble.
All right, we switch gears. Game two Sunday night, six o'clock Mountain time. You can hear it right here out of ESPN seven hundred. Since you and I, since you and I last spoke, Tom Thibodeau has lost his job and now the New York Knicks are looking for a new coach. Let me ask you this. You're well plugged in. Why do you think this decision was made? Who do you think was behind it?
I do think it was.
Enough of the front office, you know, you know, at first I thought it was dul and then as I've talked to some people, I do think some of the front office was was leaning this way.
You know.
I kind of heard throughout the year, especially leading up to the playoffs, of hey, if he didn't get to a conference finals, like he's out right, like he's just out if they don't get to.
A conference finals.
And then once the lay of the land changed with like oh Cleveland, Cleveland got knocked out, and then you obviously they beat Boston, I think it became a thing of like, I can't believe we lost to the Pacers, and it's underestimating that Pacers team. And I think that's I think it kind of set back that that kind of feeling of, hey, we got to get to the conference or better in order for him to keep his job.
I don't really know what this thing is. I don't think that he had I know everyone's like, you gotta play your bench, you gotta play your bench. What bench, the one with Cameron Paynton, Landry Shammon on it? Like I know that Landry Shammon had an okay series against Indiana.
He's not good, right like they like, you're you're.
Relying on Delon Wright to kind of turn back the clock a little bit. And he did and he played well, but he doesn't have much of a bench to utilize there. And it's not to make excuses. I still think he needs to coach better, and I think he needs to, you know, rely on the depth, you know, of what he's given a lot more because we're just talking about a couple of minutes here and there. But this seemed to be decided no matter what short of a finals run.
And so.
I think it's fine to do if you have that person that you know you're going to replace them with. It doesn't seem like they have that. And if the answer is Mike Malone, no offense of Mike Malone, I'm not certain he's a better coach than Tom Thibodeau. Like, Okay, he's got a ring show me where he's gonna run the throat to Yokic offense with the Knicks, Like, I don't know what kind of coach he is without Joks. And I'm not trying to diminish what.
He can do.
He's obviously a very smart coach, but we don't know what that looks like.
Yeah, and look, ultimately, if the whole thing with Tom is that he's not a great relationship guy, I've got bad news about Michael Malone as well, you know.
Like he just got fired for the exact same stuff.
Right right, And I just have to wonder. And look, I'm gonna sound like the old guy yelling at a cloud, but you know, a lot of the coaches with kind of an old school approach have lost their jobs, even if they are good at their jobs. And I don't want to say, like, hey, the new cuddled NBA player athlete, but is that is that approach antiquated? Is it no longer possible in a league that is clearly run by the players.
Yeah, I mean probably, And you know, I, like you want to win.
Right, Do you want to win or you want to just be coddled and make funny like does does Indiana seem like they're they're upset when Rick Carlisle's yelling at him.
He's not a guy that that coddles.
Rick Carlo's hard on his players. He's about accountability. And so I just I don't think there's a problem with it.
I just I don't.
And and if that's if that's the issue within your organization, then I don't think you have the right players.
And I don't think they have the right players You're point about. The bench is something I've been harping on. We had Howard beck on last last Hour and he said he's been told that the front office was mad that Tom didn't go deep in his bench. I'm like, to who, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, no, I'm with you there. I think their issue was a roster yeah exactly, like you know, their issue was a roster construction issue with their top heavy with a good
starting five. But if they're gonna do anything else, I think they've got a cat problem. Do you think they get involved in the durant stuff, the honest stuff? Do you think they try to tinker, make it deeper, or change things up top as well.
I mean, they don't have anything to go get Yanness, right, they barely have anything to go get Durant, Like that would be a pretty big concession.
By even the Sun's organizations.
Like I can't imagine that that's that's doing a whole lot for them. So like you depleted your draft pick stockpile by by going and getting bridges.
So I don't I don't know what you can flip.
And let's say, let's say Phoenix said, hey, you know what, we'll do CAT for KD. Straight up? What does that do? No offense to KD. He's great, He's better than CAT. I don't understand how that fixes their issues. This is a team that can't can't defend the paint. This is a team that can't defend on the perimeter.
I like that.
That's not going to fix it at all. KD is is a great weapon and he can do a whole lot, but that's not going to solve their cat problem at all. That is just going to create different problems as it solves, like a little bit of some offensive stuff. But even then, like, Okay, Katie's gonna sit and watch while Jaylen Brunson does the clutch stuff, which is fine. Jaylen Brunst is really good at it. But I'm failing to see how that is.
That is something that solves anything. If they could go get y honest, sure that's an improvement that starts to fill in some of those gaps, but they can't go get him all.
Right, before I set you loose, there was a piece of news out this way as Austin ahe has been hired as the president of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz. Ryan Smith himself at the press conference said, this is now Austin's show. He is the loudest voice in the front office. Austin's dad, Danny, will report to him, and Justin's Anik will also report to him. Of course, the sound by Zach that has been making the rounds is Austin saying. His philosophy on tanking is that we will
not do that here. You will not see it this year. All find him good. But when you have a top eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City, if you are below eight, then you've got some interesting roster decisions to make. What do you think, So if we if we take Austin out his word. They're no longer tanking or manipulating minutes. I think it's paramount for them to hold on to that draft asset next year in that
draft class. But if he is now the guy calling the shots and that is his ethos, what do you think this looks like for the Jazz this year.
Well, here's the thing about that is I covered some Timberwolves and some Kings teams for a while that also weren't tanking, but they were so bad it didn't matter. So this, I mean, this roster is like, all right, play lowry, play, play the veterans and stuff. That team's not winning, that team's not good. They might win thirty games that can still keep them their top their top eight protected pick, but they technically wouldn't be tanking. I mean, this is a team that needs to continue to bottom
out to go find one of those guys. I just I don't I don't think, I mean, I don't know, Like the approach just doesn't make sense to me when there are those potential stars. And I think this is just a product of we thought we were going to put ourselves in the position to get one these guys.
We ended up with the fifth pick or what yeah, fifth tick or whatever they end up with, and and now like, oh man, we can't do that again and sell it for with good pr Sometimes you got to just be uncomfortable, right, Like, they just need to be uncomfortable for another year and see if it works again, and then if it doesn't, okay, then you adjust and you start making some deals with some of the draft picks and some of the players that you have, and you and you lean on development.
But you know, the.
Whole press conference thing is meaningless. You can say all that stuff, and you can you can do all this stuff, but the roster is the roster. It doesn't matter if you want to take or not. If this is basically what it's going to be going into next season, you know, save any any kind of you know, massive changes to that roster like yeah, okay, you're not tanking, you're not good.
Yeah, well said, as long as they hold on to that asset, that's to me, that's number one, prior to all year long. Man, All right, Zach, appreciate the time, buddy. I have a good weekend. Enjoyed the finals with chat soon you, sir. Zach Harper covers the end the Athletic. He's doing a live stream for NBA for pre affen posts during the NBA Finals. Get the link to all of his work on his Twitter page, which is at tak hoops