It's the worst bit we have on the show, but I guess it's part of the DNA of the show at this point. Our guys, Zach Harper NBA Daily Assist time on a Wednesday afternoon.
Zach, Happy Wednesday, So how are you?
I'm excellent? I heard the pit Bull music? How could you not be great? No?
I just pictured so, like, are we talking? Is the head bobbing? Is it a full body dance? When you hear the bob.
Full body, you gotta get up. I was sitting down. I got up. I started, you know, do a little move here, a little two step you.
Have to Okay, Well, I'm glad it makes you happy, Zach. That's all that matters. That's what we're trying to do. How's your Wednesday, man? What's going on in your world?
You know, it's gloomy here. It's a little gloomy here. It's a little chilly hum and everything else is great. You know, it was hot earlier this week, so you know, just trying to go with the ups and downs of the weather here. But I hear it's nice in Salt Lake City, So I'm happy for you, guys.
I was going to say this might be the only day all year long. I can actually tell you that it is seventy five and it is sunny, so in your face.
Ach, yeah, it was ninety here on Monday, ninety.
Goodness gracious, yeah, that's gracious. You fell out. You fell out of bracket?
Are you you fell out a bracket for this INCA tournament?
Okay?
Yeah? And great question? Who did I have? I think I Houston over let's say, Michigan State. I think I'm Houston over Michigan State in the final.
Okay, all right, all right?
Are you put a lot of thought into it?
Did you have to for the athletic No, no.
No, no, this was just for a friend group thing. But yeah, like I I I, you know, I follow college basketball mostly through maybe the top ten prospects throughout the season, and then I'll try to dive into the conference tournament if I'm not too busy, and then once once it's March madn It's like, once it's the tournament, I dive in as much as I can. Like I was, I was watching all day Thursday, all day Friday, I
watched most of Saturday and most of Sunday. I'll be locked in the rest of the way and start scouting for you know, for all the draft prospects start that are there making pretty snap decisions, Like I made my entire decision on Reed Shepherd based on his horrible game against Oakland last year, and I still feel pretty confident about that. So I yeah, Like, I don't put a whole lot of thought into March badness. I just now enjoyed. I used to put a lot of thought into it.
Well, when you're young and dumb, you think you have a chance to actually predict the outcome. And then after a few years, you just tell me if you get what I get this time of year, which is the text and the emails from the ants and the cousins, like hey, I've got to fill out a bracket, will you do it for me?
Absolutely, Even before like when I when I had first started getting into this in terms of like trying to become a basketball writer, I was working for an appellate court in Sacramento, and so I started a website and everything, and I was let into the judge's bracket pool with like some of the appell attorneys and some of the justices because they knew I was a basketball guy. So I would get like asked. They would ask me all the time, like, so, who do you like here? And
what do you think here? As I was like in this pool and then since then, it's just I get it constantly.
You know what, I don't know that I've ever asked you this because I think I became familiar with your work via Twitter, like years ago. By years ago, I mean maybe sixteen fifteen, sixteen years ago, That's how I became familiar with you. And then I started reading your stuff and listening to your work. How did you break into this business? It's not easy to do it.
No, it's not easy to do and I think a lot of it. I mean it was you know, hard work and I didn't give up. But it was also like just really good timing. I started. I was working for an a peblic court, Like I said, I started a website in July of or of June of two thousand and seven, was you know, kind of just got into Twitter a little bit in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, started getting a little bit of
notice through that. I got a little bit of notice through Jay Skeeths of the Basketball Jones at the time, now with no dunks and he was running like the Yahoo blog at the time, and so I got some
notes from that. And then ESPN started the True Houp Network and they needed a Kings blogger, and the great Tom Ziller said no, and so then they came to meet because I was a second choice, and I started a website called Cowbell Kingdom for ESPN and it didn't pay anything, but it got you credentialed and you were affiliated with ESPN. And they started a nightly chat called the Daily Dime Live, and they would invite the bloggers of the teams that night who were playing to come
chat on ESPN dot com. And I just started showing up even when the Kings weren't weren't playing, and I realized quickly, oh, the editors of ESPN dot com don't want to run this chat, and so I just kept showing up. I started running the chat kind of by default, and then I did it through the playoffs of the two thousand and nine twenty ten season, and then they offered me a job to run the tch chat full time, and that was my foot in the door.
Wait are you tell me you didn't manifest this.
Uh, well, obviously I had like manifestation boards and vision boards.
And yeah, yeah, y did you start your blog when it was the summer solstice?
Of course? Okay, well, I mean yeah, which is which everyone obviously knows, is you know, June whatever.
Dude, your mercury and retrograde out outro as the kids would say it sent me last week.
There was perfect timing. It was well done, kids sent you.
Yeah, I mean, of course, yeah, that's that's what I say too, because I'm young.
No, I know, I know you and I both while we're in the space of collegiate prospects and we are in Salt Lake City where the Jazz are an unserious basketball team, tell our listeners what you believe Cooper Flag will be in the NBA if everything goes to plan, stays healthy, and he becomes fully developed.
What does that look like, Zach Oh, that's a really.
Good question, because I think right now, I look at him as like a white Shawn Marrin with a better jump shot, right which I think is an excellent player. I don't think he has a very good handle, and I think that kind of affects how he gets into his his pull up jumpers and some of his attack off the dribble. I think it creates some some turnover problems and then the games. But also like he's super young, so he has plenty of time to work on the handle and and and fix that stuff. I think the
rest of his game is really good. I think his instincts are great. He's a great defender, great defensive instincts, great motor, all that stuff. So I like if he if he develops the handle, if he develops all that, I don't know, like he kind of reminds me of at that point, like maybe a little bit taller Paul George like that, like maybe that. I don't know if that's a great comp but I think that type of player. Like I don't think he's going to be this ultimate
franchise changer, right. I don't think he's like a Zion if Zion was healthy. I don't think he's a Wemby. But I think he's an awesome player. Like I think he's a like a second best player on a great team.
Oh okay, interesting, that's an interesting take on it. Do you do hear and you tell me if you hear this. I feel like I hear that this is maybe not Lebron Webbin Yamba, but maybe just right there, you know, not on that level, but maybe half a level below, because it feels like the Jazz are one of I don't know, eight nine, ten teams and we're going to get there in a moment that clearly have sacrificed the
intent of winning with the possibility of landing him. Are you hearing from other people that they're a little bit higher on him than you seem to be?
Is that fair?
Yeah? I mean, I think there are plenty of people that think he's like a franchise changer. I just think that's asking a lot out of any prospects, right And I I mean, he's on a loaded duke team, right, Like if he was doing this on a team that isn't nearly as talented as what he's playing. And I'm not saying like he's like any of his play isn't dominant, isn't work, like he's the awesome. He's been as good
as advertised, if not better. I just think it's tough to judge in that way, like he's he's his team is so good and he's been so good. I don't know where you say that's him versus that's just the program in general and the team in general, and so like, I don't know how he's going to create a shot at the NBA level consistently. And if he isn't like an easy natural score at the NBA level, then then can you be that guy that's like the number one guy? I just I don't know if that's possible. And so
I I think he's going to be great. I think he's going to be like if he's Paul George without the corniness and without the podcast, that's a great player, like and without the the fear of Joe Ingles and in the game situation, like, that's a great player. Like maybe he's what Paul George should have ended up being. Oh that's a great player.
Now that and that's actually a good pull because once upon a time, man, I don't know, maybe for the final two years he was healthy in Indiana, we talked about Paul George as if he was one of the top two or three players in the league.
We did, yeah, yeah, absolutely, like he was, like he was he was one of those guys. He got the kind of the confirmation from Lebron in those series with Indian and Miami. I mean, he was, he was one of those guys. And and he's and again he still had a great career. He's a Hall of Famer like all that stuff, right, you know, I don't want to pretend he's not great, but you don't look at him as like the guy on a number one team, right, And I just I just think it's asking a lot,
like you want to know. Here's if I were, if I were not a coward, I would start saying, maluwatch is the guy I think is gonna be the best mess in the class. Really, I I don't know what it is about him. I think like that's like my hottest take with knowing that Cooper flag is most likely going to be it. But if I hadn't the number two pick, I would risk it on him. You're not awesome.
You're not doing like the hipster media thing like when Women Yama was coming out where people back here kind like scoot you like, don't do that.
No okay, no no.
No no no no no no. Try. If I had the number one pick, I would take Cooper right like like outright. But if I had the number two pick, as good as Dylan Harper looks, you know, Ace Bailey's kind of everyone's cooled off on him, I think is like he's barely played any basketball. He has incredible defensive instincts, he has a great touch offensively, he knows what he's like. He just knows what he's doing even though he hasn't hasn't played, and he's a great defensive presence. Like I
just there there. I don't I'm not saying he's gonna be this, but like there are some real like in beat Joel Embiid vibes with the with just the similar story and and he's ahead of what any big man should be just in terms of coordination within the game and and knowing how to play with how little experience he has. But I just I would risk it on him with number two.
Very interesting, all right.
I know it's been a number of years since you covered the Kings and have been in Sacramento period, So I don't know if you know Wes Wilcox, but I will kick the tires with you on a story that has a local flavor, with Wes Wilcox coming to the University of Utah as their new general manager via the Sacramento Kings, which was his most recent job as the assistant GM there. He was the GM of the Hawks for three years and then prior to that was the
assistant general manager. He hired Alex Jensen when Wes was in Cleveland running the G League team to coach the Canton Charge and that's where Alex was G League Coach of the Year and they won the G League championship. So that's the origin story of their relationship. But he now becomes the highest ranking city in NBA front office person to take a college job. Zach, what do you make of this?
Well, also, don't forget he and I have done some radio shows together back when he was on Serious Sex on NBA radio.
That's that was I should have led with that. That's on me.
That's obviously the big part of the resume. Yeah, No, Wes is great, Like I don't I don't really know Wes. I've done a couple of couple of things with him work wise, but he's a I mean, he's a super smart dude. Like he he knows the game. It doesn't surprise me. It doesn't surprise me that he's he's leaving Sacramento because this is gonna shock you there there might
not be a whole lot of stability within that organization. Yeah, like there might like there just might not be It might not be the most well run organization lately after like a year of where it looked promising. So you know, I don't, I don't. I don't fully know what happened there with him enough to to feel comfortable saying that like nothing bad, Like I just think you know, that just influences change constantly within that organization when they shouldn't.
And and so I think it's smart for him to to be to be out of there. It's an interesting position to go from there to to now this in vogue role of general manager of a of a college program. You know, we we obviously saw WoT do we? So Steph Curry kind of is doing it with Davidson. I think now Wes is doing it. I think it's going to be more of a trend in the next like year or two than than people realize. Like, I think this is going to be a very with all the
money being thrown around in college sports like above board. Now, I think it's going to be a very lucrative, sought after position. And I think it's smart of him to get in early.
Let me ask you, since you do have some experience with him, is he analytic driven?
Is he does he have a back?
Okay, go ahead, yeah, analytic driven like and just very just very on it, like just like knows the game, knows the analytics like yeah, but like very analytics driven. So nerd not well, I mean nerd ish.
Yeah, look, I'm not that that is a term of endearment, you know, like nerds are running pro basketball, like I'm not. I'm not knocking on him. I wish I was more of a nerd. I just can't shake how cool I am, Zach.
It's a problem.
Well, I mean that's our that's our cross to bear round.
Yes, yeah, you and I cut from the same cloth, the coolest.
Yeah.
Okay, So how can I talk to you about the new narrative that's going on in the market about hey, this is not a rebuild because it's been a three year tear teardown.
Yeah you told me that last week and that's still that's still Wow. What a what an interesting what an interesting an interesting way it's been that I.
Really don't know if I'm more like embarrassed for the messenger or the people that are like, oh totally, this has been a tear down.
Like there are people that are buying it, like eating up.
Yeah, because that I mean you want to you want to think the like you want to think the best in terms of hope. Right, Like I understand wanting to buy it because you if this is technically year three of the rebuild, Oh oh, that's not great, right, that's not that's not amazing when you get doubled up in the second half last night, And I mean I tuned into like maybe four minutes of that third quarter and thought, I can't do this. I got better things to do.
This is not how I'm spending the rest of my night. I will watch literally anything else. And and then seeing Will Hardy's comments after the game, I thought, oh maybe I should have watched that. Now it seems even better than what I thought. Yeah, Like I understand wanting to believe it. I just don't know how you can honestly
believe it. Like at a certain point, the reality has to set it in of like no, like you like the second you trade Gobert and Mitchell, that's the rebuild, no matter how like, Okay, you won thirty games and like in those couple of years, like okay, great, that doesn't mean it wasn't a rebuild.
Now, it's just like some of the stuff. You know, who do you think you're talking to? Like I can remember.
I think it was the second year after they traded Mitchell and Gobert and year two I had somebody down there say, hey, we were trying to tank, but Will Will's too good.
And I'm like, who coaches the Spurs?
Sorry?
Like what what are you talking about? Like your coach is too good for you to tank? Who coaches san Antonio? Give me a break?
Oh that bum Greg Popovitch doesn't know how to coach?
Geez, I will say, like, Will has had a couple of post games where you do get a glimpse into.
How frustrated he might be. And I don't blame him.
Man, Like last night when he decided to take his team to task, I was like, good for you, because if I'm Will Hardy, I'm over this. I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah you got. I mean, look, you know what the deal is, right, you know? The goal is to lose games, to put yourself in a position to get the number one pick and to end up with Cooper Flag and and have like your guy moving forward. That is the point of the rebuild, is to get the guy. And if you believe Cooper Flag is the guy, then mission accomplished. Right, So he like he's not unaware, but like, you gotta do it better than this, right, You got to do
it more competitively than this. Even the Wizards are playing competitive basketball right now. Yeah, the Wizards. The Wizards are making this look better. That can't but you can't make it. You can't look worse than the Wizards in this.
Yeah.
No, that should not be the area you find yourself. I'm gonna pose the question that I asked. I've asked your buddy Tom Haberstrow to McMahon stop by, and Tom brought up because we're talking about the tanking and how there's like a third of the league that's not even trying and it makes watching pro basketball, NBA basketball just unbearable.
And Tom brought up the potential, like in the NFL, we've got John l Wave, got Eli Manning, and then Deon Sanders is kind of floating out of the idea that if he doesn't like Worship Doors draft that he might get involved. And Tom's like, that might happen in the NBA at some point where a prospect is high speed head to a dead end situation. If you're Cooper Flag's dad, if you're his agent, if you're his reps, and I say, okay, your options are Utah, New Orleans, Washington, Charlotte.
I'll give you those four. Where would you want your kid to land? And why?
Man, that's because if you look at like I look at Charlotte, and I would just I mean, I think you have to look at Charlotte a little bit and be like, all right, they did just get new ownership and new like new everything, right, new coach, new management, new ownership. Maybe that'll be better. You look at Washington, I look at like ted leonsis and running that. I'd be like, man, not my circus, not my problem. I don't want a part of that, right, Like I'm good.
You look at you look at Utah or New Orleans, I'd be like, all right, I like a lot of things there, but man, everybody gets hurt. Like everybody gets hurt. And I don't believe in like all that cosmic stuff obviously outside of like crystals and mercury and retrograde that's deeply personal to us. But but like I wouldn't want to play with my career there, just in case, just in case that stuff's real. And then Utah like yeah, like you know, no offense to the market, Like it's
not an attractive market. But at least historically out of all four of those teams, that's the most well run organization. You see justin Vannik, you see Danny Ames like there's competency on the horizon, Like I think I would have to go to have to pick Utah and just do like that that's where I need to be just to have a chance at like playing the basketball.
Yeah, and I think, well, can coach I really do. I want to see him with a good roster at his disposal, all right before I say you lose the theme on the show. Tommy wrote about it for Yahoo, and Tim Bontemps and Pelton wrote about it for ESPN. Literally a third of the league is unserious about winning. Literally ten teams are just like, we don't give a rip about what happens tonight.
I don't care what the league says.
And yes I know it's the number seventy two billion for the new TV deal.
This sucks.
And watching the NCAA Tournament has been such a great reminder of watching basketball when people really care about it. Is there a solution that you've heard that you think actually makes sense to kurtail this or is this just the deal in perpetuity.
No, there's not a there's not an idea I've I've heard that that curves this. I think I think it just has to be a perfect storm of like there are fewer injuries, maybe there's a bad draft class, you know, like maybe that's like that helps more teams are in the hunt for a playing tournament and you don't have dominant teams at the top of the conferences like in the way that we see Like I don't know, I
really don't know, but it's it's not it's not. I think the criticism of the product for most of this season within like just the public conversation has been bs. Like I just think it's been a lazy, unfounded conversation. Lately, it's rough. Man, it's like it's it's a bad product. The last couple of weeks and you know, Eric Kreen wrote about it for The Athletic maybe a couple of days ago. He covers the Raptors and does a great job and he's like, hey, this is this is gross,
Like this is not good and I'm with them. I'm with Tom like I'm uh, it's it's something I don't know how you fix. But can you really get by? Like are they hoping that march madness is just a distraction during this time? They still get in the revenue And and all right, we'll get to the plane tournament in a couple of weeks. Like that can't be the plan.
It's rough, it is, there's no doubt.
All right, buddy, I'll set you loose, and I wish you could enjoy sunshine, but uh, I guess we're spoiled here in Salt Lake.
Oh, I'll put on my vision board.
Thanks, buddy, have a good one.
Zach Harper from the Athletic I always appreciate his time.
Vision board. Here's it. I don't want to talk about it. Fill it up with some positive thought.
No, you're supposed to hang pictures of it and manifest and you're supposed to exist with the feeling as if it's already happened. Right because Porter what is for you will always flow to you.
Write that down.
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