All right, let's get a drivetime Wednesday afternoon night and minutes past the hour of two o'clock.
It is another.
Scorching hot Utah July day outside and as it is every single day, it's going to have you along for the ride.
Spence check, it's beyond.
The Mic James is getting us on air today pulling double duty.
Porter will be along for the ride. Coming up in just a little bit.
We have a jam packed, busy show on this Wednesday afternoon edition of the program.
It is a Friday for us.
We have Pioneer Day off and then we're gonna have a best of show on Friday. We'll be back with live programming coming up on Monday of next week. But we have a lot to do on the program today. Day two a Big Ten Media Days at Mandala a Bay in Las Vegas. Day two of ACC Media Days in Charlotte, North Carolina. So a lot of college football conversation throughout the new cycle.
Over the past twenty four hours.
Penn State picked to win the Big Ten this year, not Ohio State, not Oreon. They did do a preseason media poll, unlike our friends in the Big Twelve.
Of course, Big Twelve Media Day SEC.
Media day now behind US mount West Conference last week in Vegas. Utah State pick to finish ninth by the media preseason. Nike Larson named All Mountain West Conference preseason, the only Aggie to have that honor.
Bronco Menenhall year one.
For the Aggies up and Logan some interesting things to say about his decision making process. So we have a lot of college football to get to on the program today. The latest with the potential scheduling, uniformity conversation, the expanded CFP access for each conferences, automatic qualifiers and such. So we'll get into the college football storylines as we are less than forty days away. I believe it's thirty eight days away from Utah football right around the corner now,
so a lot to get to. The New York Giants have named a starting quarterback. It is not Jackson Dart, not too surprising. It is Russell Wilson. Ryan Dayball came out today and made that announcement, So a little NFL on the program. Kyle Philipowski named Summer League MVP yesterday, so a nice honor for Kyle. The Jazz actually held an impromptu press conference kind of randomly or Kyle was able to talk about that honor and what he hopes to carry over year two as a pro basketball player
after a really solid rookie season. Not a lot of NBA storylines, This is kind of a quiet time in the world of pro basketball. Of course, Dame Lillard officially back with the Blazers, Marcus smart As landed with the Lakers. I don't know that the Jazz are going to really do anything else, but a couple of interesting pieces out today, including the worst decision every team has made over the past five years, written by our friends at ESPN, and there's a Jazz angle here that we'll get to on
the show. Our friends at the Athletic valued every college football program as if they were kind of doing an exercise to try to understand if a private equity firm wanted to buy a football team what that would cost both Utah and BYU on the list. We'll get to some of that kind of interesting storylines in that direction. It is the MLS All Star Game tonight. Did you know that you didn't be honest? MLS Skills Challenged last night.
Diego Luna was featured the Summer Window for the World of Professional Soccer opens tomorrow at least the world of Major League Soccer here domestically.
Rumors are RSL is.
Expected to add multiple pieces as soon as that news breaks, and his official We'll bring it to you Rayle saw Lake will be in action on Saturday, welcoming in an old friend is Chico, Orongo and San Jose rolling to town to take on RSL for a seven thirty first kick in Sandy. The game is on MLS Season Pass on Apple TV.
So a ton to do.
The Pennant races are starting to heat up in the world of Major League Baseball as the All Star weekend is behind us, so a lot to do. On this Wednesday edition of the program, good guest list for you guys, Matt Brown will stop by right off the top.
Now Matt wrt's one of my.
Favorite college football newsletters and entitled Extra Points. It's a one stop for me. Use it a lot to prep for the show. Smart dude, good friend of the show. Matt will stop by right off the top. Chris Comeradnie typically a Friday staple, but it's kind of a Friday for us, so Ck will be in studio today during the three o'clock hour and then the voice himself, the Voice of the Utes, Bill Riley joins us and my buddy Reese Peck, who's an adjunct professor back east. He's
a local guy, very intellectual, fascinating guy. He's been on the show a bunch of different times, so it's kind of a different summer type approach when it comes to some of these conversations we'll have.
So Reese will stop buy live in studio as well.
So Matt Brown, Chris Comaradnie, Bill Riley, respect me, Spence check. Its all of you, the great listeners, and that guy James Peterson sitting in the chair usually occupied by porter pulling double duty today Humpy.
D Yeah a little bit.
Well, I mean you could probably say triple duty with the PD title you just threw out there. But the porter says.
He'll be here.
He's none exact time when he'll be able to get in, but I'm happy to fill in form in the meantime. No NBA storylines. What does a jazz player winning MVP not in some NBA form of MVP not count as NBA storylines?
Well, I did, I did, I did mention that you know, as I say all the time, if you're.
For MVP in franchise history, right, So well them two and now him.
Yeah, it's the first Jazz player to win Summer League. But yes, Carl won a couple of regular season MVPs. But I always say, if you're a fan of an NBA team and your best players are playing on your summer league team, it's not a great sid. That's a good point, all right, So a lot to do on the show. Good to guys, Good to have you guys with us. We'll bring in Matt Brown right off the top.
Before we get to Matt. ESPN seven hundred welcomes Eric Church to the Delta Center on October twenty third, twenty twenty five. Tickets are on sale now.
You can text Church date seven seven three five three zero seven hundred for a chance to win tickets to go.
See Eric Church. Courtesy of ESPN seven hundred. All right, So Big twelve Media Days a few weeks ago. See Media Days is about a week and a half ago now, and it's big. It's Big ten Day two in Las Vegas, and it's ACC Day two and Charlotte and ultimately it's just an excuse to kind of cover some of these
storylines going on in the world of college football. As we are less than forty days away for the University of Utah to kickoff, and of course BYU Utah State all of our local teams, so getting ready to open up camp and we'll get some answers to some of the questions that we have, namely for Brigham Young, who's going to start at quarterback? As we now know that Jakeretts laugh is headed to Tulane. Kind of an interesting dynamic there when it comes to the way that went down.
As a result of the timing of the whole thing, the transfer portal was not open and so the Tulane coaches were not able to contact Jake Rrett's laughs directly.
They had to contact his reps.
As the story goes, Jake was recruited by the head coach of Taulaine out of high school. So ultimately they kind of have a situation where they know each other, they're familiar with each other. So who will start at quarterback for BYU. They'll open up the competition once fall gets going. A lot of fan support for the bear Bachmeyer kid. Of course, you know, left to kind of wait and see who a rod decides to tab to
run his system. I think it's kind of nice that for the first time in a few years, the University of Utah does not have any ambiguity a by the quarterback position.
And yes, Cameron certainly was named the starter.
We knew that when healthy, he was going to be the guy, but just too many unknowns regarding that situation.
So to have it settled that.
Devin Dampier is the guy is a really really solid thing for Utah heading into camp. As I say every year about this time, if you're a fan of a college football team, the less questions that you have in turn camp, that's always the way to roll. So it's good for Utah to have that solidified. We'll see how
BYU figures that out. As we're high speed, had to actually talking about games in college football as opposed to the future of conference realignment, the future of TV deals, the expanded CFP, scheduling, uniformity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So UCLA opening game that is a late kick.
Remember BYU will get things going with Portland State, and if you're BYU, I think that's ultimately a nice soft landing spot when.
You're trying to break in a quarterback.
Because the interesting thing about the conversation regarding Jake Jake Htz laugh is you hear a lot of people say, well, and I've said this because it's true. Last year BYU's success, in my opinion, wasn't predicated on the play of their quarterback.
You know, Jake was eleventh in the Big Big twelve and QBR.
And he had some excellent moments in a vacuum, made some big time plays down the stretch from some clutch plays down the stretch. Certainly did that here in Salt Lake City as they beat Utah last year twenty two to twenty one with that crazy ending, And Jake deserves a lot of credit for a lot of things. But if you're a BYU fan, I don't think this is a death pla.
I really don't.
But the other side of that coin is when you haven't done something before and you're asked to do it for the first time, I don't care how talented you are, it's going to take a minute for you to kind of get used to how that works. And whoever the quarterback is will be taking their first snaps as the quarterback for BYU. McKay holsted played as a freshman at Utah State, and certainly some of the other qbs in the room have a little bit of experience, but none of them have the experience Jake did.
So I do think in a way.
This will be a setback, but I just don't think it's a death sentence. And most of the preseason Big twelve polls indicate as much. The Vegas over under for wins for Brigham Young has not moved all that much. But obviously when you have a question mark under center, that's going to be the first topic and that's the biggest question to me for any of our teams locally here in state as we approach camp. So I referenced
this earlier. The Athletic wrote a really interesting piece. Matt Baker wrote it, so college football program valuations, ranking every power for team by how.
Much they'd sell for.
So.
I find stuff like this really interesting, and we've talked about it on the show. I'm actually a little bit surprised that it hasn't come to fruition tangibly, and it's still more rumors and conjecture that private equity has not made its way into the world of college football, at least in a way that I thought it would once
this idea was kind of floated out. I believe it was the owner of the Bucks who had a sports conference just came out and said that he and his partners are looking to make an offer to buy like forty eight percent of Ohio state. And what's that number? What does it look like? And how does that work with public schools? Right when the local government is involved, And it's not as seamless as being able to just
go buy a property. So when you look at the rankings and tears that Matt Baker is essentially unpacked here and he went through a pretty arduous process. I mean, try to analyze markets, try to analyze brand awareness, current and past success. The most valuable team in college football, according to Matt's model, is the University of Texas, and the valuation would be two point three to eight billion. Honestly, I think that's low. Their three year average football revenue
is one hundred and eighty three million. And just going down the list, as we talk about, if you're one of those people that pushes back on the narrative of the SEC and the Big Ten essentially owning the landscape of the sport, this is not the list that you're looking for, Texas would be one out of the SEC,
and then you have Georgia at two. Ohio State is valued at three, Notre Dame Independent at four, and then Big Ten's Michigan Michigan out of the Big ten would be five, and then it goes Bama SEC, Oklahoma SEC USC Big ten, Tennessee SEC, LSU SEC, Penn State Big ten, Florida SEC, Auburn SEC, Oregon Big ten, Texas A and m SEC, Washington Big ten, Nebraska Big ten. The first team on the list of these valuations is Florida State at eighty eight hundred and sixty seven million.
They're out of the ACC.
Then it's Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State all out of the Big ten. Back to the ACC where it's Clemson, and then it's Arkansas, Miami ACC. We have not named a Big twelve team yet Old Miss SEC, North Carolina ACC, South Carolina SEC, Minnesota Big ten, and the most valuable team in the Big twelve, according to Matt Baker's model, is none other than the University of Utah, valued at five hundred and thirty nine million, and Utah is the
first Big twelve team on the list. And then TCU is the second Big twelve team on the list, but of the top twenty five most valuable properties in college football.
Excuse me, the top thirty.
The University of Utah is the first Big twelve team in at number twenty nine. The rest of the top twenty eight, it's laced in SEC and Big ten with a few ACC schools. TCU comes in right after Utah number thirty. And as we make our way down the list, I am still not seeing Brigham Young, which is a little bit surprising. So Colorado is in the mix. So BYU, their valuation the ninth most valuable team in the Big twelve.
The average football revenue forty three point seven million dollars and their projected price would be three hundred and six million dollars.
So the ninth most valuable team in the Big twelve BYU.
That feels low. Interesting to consider kind of how this model unfolded. But again, of the top twenty most valuable teams, you have two ACC teams and then everyone else is SEC in Big ten. Because that's just kind of how the sport as unfolded.
All right, Chris Camraaddie.
From the Athletic will join us live in studio Today during the three o'clock hour, we have the voice of the utes. O'Reilly, My buddy respect will roll by in studios well.
Batty leadoff Wednesday Afternoon Style.
Our buddy Matt Brown writes the college football newsletter Extra Points, which I use all the time to prep for the show and understand the landscape of the sport. Matt, Happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, Buddy. How are we doing?
Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back.
I appreciate the time.
So as far as all of these moving targets that are going on right now, you know, we had Big twelve media Days, we were down in Dallas, SEC Media Days Atlanta, and now we've got ACC and big Big ten going on right now, Big ten in Vegas, ACC and Charlotte. I'm gonna ask you, what is the most interesting story permeating throughout the ecosystem of college football right now that you're interested in personally?
What I'm interested in personally are generally not the same things that everybody else is. And also I recognize that I've been I've been out of the country until just a couple of days ago, and I've missed part of talking se but I generally don't find conference media day conversations to be that illuminating, right Like for me, I think some of the really interesting stuff that's happening right
now is what's happening in DC. It's what's happening within the NCAA and the College Sports Commission and determining what kind of NIL activity is going to be permissible. It looks like that window as much larger than we thought it was going to be a couple of days ago. And what's happening with some of these smaller schools. I mean, like before you called, I was, I was finishing editing a story on golf, right, So I think my professional instinct is to zig a little bit where where people
are zagging. I'll have some time to go check the pregem magazines and figure out who's going to be on what roster in the Big Twelve in a couple of days.
Sure, And you know, ultimately we're not going to talk about the too deep for you know, Utah or any other Big twelve team on the show today. I wonder as it pertains to the world of NIL and enforcement. You know, one of the interesting soundbites we had from Big Twelve Media Day from multiple coaches, including coach with Kyle Whittingham and Kalani is that there just seems to be zero faith in the ecosystem of college football in
this potential enforcement and what it looks like. And if we're honest, Matt, there's never been an even playing field and there never will be. You always find ways to circumvent certain situations if you don't really care about approaching things with some sort of moral code. But as far as the progress or lack thereof with the enforcement of nil, what sort of light can you shed on that?
Yeah, I don't blame any of those coaches for saying that, and I'm not accusing anybody into Big twelve of mal seasons or anything. But you know I can tell you as a reporter based on who I talk to, is generally if I talk to an ad or conference staffer, they are there's some cautious optimism, right, And they're the ones that talk to the lawyers all the time. They see things from a different perspective and they think like, all right, like maybe the sports maybe it doesn't, but
I'm I'm willing to give it a shot. I think there's a possibility. So when you talk to people that work in player personnel, gms, recruiting coordinators, you know, opts people, or head coaches. I haven't yet to talk to anybody in FBS to big school or small school that has
faith in the system. And part of that is I think if you're a GM and you're talking to other gms and other recruiting staffers and assistants on other programs, you're being paid a lot of money to win, and you win by having the best players, and you don't get contract extensions or get rewarded for outstanding fidelity to NCAA bylaws or to Collegiate Sports Commission, you know, policies.
It's in your professional best interests, you know, not to do anything illegal, but to find ways to get people money so you can get them on campus. And then you've for forgiveness rather than for permission later. Because it's not like anybody gets really significantly penalized for breaking any of those rules. The only thing that I think will change any those coaches' minds is when somebody gets penalized
in a major way. And will that happen at some point probably, and we'll see if it stands up in court. The big change that we've seen in just the last seventy two hours is when we talk We talked to folks a couple of weeks ago. The guidance was, we're not going to permit nil deals from collectives. Those aren't real businesses. They'll be presumed to not be for regular business purposes. And then the collective operators threatened to sue,
they called tom Mars and others. And now the guidance says, well, okay, maybe those will be okay, but they're still going to be subject to fair market value analysis. And the kind of when I've been getting from text messages from coaches and GM types since then has been all right, So we're just going to get like ten percent more sophisticated at money laundering gonna were in twenty twenty two, and
then nothing really changed. And if that's the case, then there is no cap then anything from the house situation doesn't really matter. Well, the only thing that changes is going to be either rigorous enforcement or some or judicial legal clarity. We'll see if we get any of those before October.
Are the days of our collectives dead?
Are collectives across the landscape at college football just dead?
Now?
No? I think actually quite the contrary. They became substantially, you know, more less dead, you know, substantially more alive. In the last two days, there were a lot of collectives that are being folded into schools, or converted into more traditional marketing agencies, or broad in house, or dissolved because then the conventional wisdom was that your legal liability goes down if you bring some of this stuff in together. You don't need to run it through a third organization,
because the school can directly compensate people. But if you're permitted to still have an outside entity and cut checks to people and have it not count against your cap so long as it passes the fair market value test and is providing some actual service to the public, then I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure out a way to keep your collective operating.
Maybe they don't get spun off again in the next three months if they were killed before, but some really rigorous enforcement, Yeah, I think you'll see more schools look at that guidance and think, Okay, I've just got to figure out a way to pull my funnel my donor money through some kind of like pizza place, and so that way still give money above the cap because the the eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen million dollars that schools are
allocating for their football payroll from just their house money is not going to be enough to pay a championship caliber football team.
Mark Carlin, athletic director for the You, joined us a big twelve media days and I presented him with the split that most people believe is like a general blueprint baseline promote that athletic department seventy five percent football, fifteen percent men's hoops, five percent women's hoops, then five percent left over. He essentially said, yeah, that's kind of how we're we're doing it. When it comes to Brian Santiago with BYU, he sidestepped the question in a way that
wasn't that surprise to me. Uh, is that your understanding, Matt, of the way that it is most places, not all, but most places.
I think I think at most places we're talking about being within five percent of that, right, Like I I, you would know this probably better and I would. I would not be surprised that Utah would decided to allocate some money to women's gymnastics. And there are many SEC programs that that have to allocate some money to baseball or some money to softball. But that's pretty common, whether it's it's it's seventy seventy five eighty for football and
kind of splitting things up among everybody else. That is that is that is the most common thing I know BYU. If I understood the Deseret News story from a couple of days ago, it's a little bit different in that they're they're still using Alston money, They're still tying academic and sentence to some of this. They're I think that they might be the only powerful program I'm aware of that's said in public we're not going to fund the full twenty million, which I okay, whatever you want to
tell yourselves. But I'm unaware of anybody in the Power forward that's doing a radically different sport allocations for their money.
So I'm glad you brought up the d News piece because I wanted to dig into that with you. You know, it's a complicated, slippery slope in a way, because I just don't feel like they're honest and transparent about any of their financial dealings when it comes to the athletic department, and it's laced in this hole like, no, we don't pay top dollar.
They want the BYU experience.
They want to evolve and grow as young people, and they want to become tried and true BYU. And it's like, dude, we have the reports that you're paying de bands to seven mil for five months in basketball.
Scott Drew, the head coach of Baylor.
He said that Rob Wright, the point guard, they were able to grab three point five mil. If you do some loose math, they're paying thirteen to fifteen million dollars for their basketball program.
They just signed Rider Lions.
The report is Rider was looking for seven figure and seven figures before he leaves on his mission, which you know, so they're paying top dollar. I don't know what the whole like, yeah, we're gonna do eighteen mil does outside of maybe make some people down there feel better about going.
Out and buying talent. And I'm not hating on the whole process. I'm just like, don't tell me, I'm not seeing what I'm seeing. Like, be honest about how you're dealing with it.
What do you make of this entire you know, your takeaways with the Deseret News story in the way by use handling this new reality of college sports and again not breaking any rules, but they are spending top dollar for talent.
Yeah. So I'm conflicted about this, and I've been asking myself like, is my emotional, visceral reaction, am I being fair? Is this being colored by my own biases? And maybe it is right? So I don't want to I don't want
to come out too hard here. I think we both people like you and I and general fans, we have to be careful when we say like, oh, well, well, you know Baylor's paying X, or by us paying X. Because one of the tricky things about about this world, right is that athletes are getting money from multiple sources.
Do I? I mean, as far as I understand it, Like DYU is not responsible for all of the money that's going to aj AJ is going to get some of that, right, Someone that's coming from Red Bull, some of it's coming from shoe companies, someone's coming from outside things. And if money is coming from the you know, some of that's coming from the Cougar collective. You know a lot of these a lot of those basketball deals were front loaded the same way that everybody else is doing things.
Then DYU could say with their whole chest and be totally honest. We're not paying top dollar. Well, you know, we the university Athletic Department are paying you know, eighty five percent of market rate. And if other people want to pay him a lot of money, so his total compa is very high. Well, we don't have anything to do with what red Bull does. And and you know, it's just a total number that ends up getting reported.
And and maybe there's a maybe there's a meaningful distinction there, maybe there isn't that that's probably more nuanced for for sports radio. I do think I take a little a little bit of exception to the idea that by somehow paying eighteen seven or nineteen million instead of twenty or instep of twenty point five, that the process then is
no longer transactional. And BYU is absolutely not alone in this, because I had this conversation all the time in higher education about coaches and administrators that are worried about college
sports becoming overly transactional. And we can do and we can sit there and we can we can destroy it Utah or Utah State or anybody else that there's punrets of athletes in the athletic department that are going to a school because they want a scholarship and they want to compete at a high level, and they like that school, and they're not going for just a pure paycheck. But once you start paying people at any job, it becomes transactional. My job at Extra Points is transactional. Am I doing
it for the love of the game. Yes, But I gots a gout to pay for a new air conditioning unit. I gotta go buy snacks or my kids. I gotta go buy pants, I gotta go buy gas. I absolutely care about the money, and I don't I don't think
that's the problem. And I think what I've mentioned here before, like my understanding is just about everybody within the church enterprises, whether you're a basketball player or a coach, or an English professor or a software developer or reporter for the Deseret News or anywhere else, is you're not getting the top of the line salary because they don't want somebody to make the decision and and sign up for everything that comes along with with with that because they felt
constrained by cash. But on some level, if you're paying close enough or enough money, like I don't think you can pretend that that's that's not part of it, and that's not an LDS Church specific problem or a BYU specific problem. There might be a couple of wrinkles that plays out specifically there that's a college sports problem. And I think a lot of that is because this industry at large is really reticent to be honest about what this is.
Well said, right, yeah, yeah, well said and and very fair.
And you know, again, it's not a commentary on the LDS Church, you know, it's it's clear that the money is not coming from the church. I think you and I have talked about this before. I went to lunch with a very powerful local booster who told me at the time is understanding is by U as nine seven figure donors, while Utah currently has too.
Now that was about a year ago.
I don't know what the up to date number is, but there are a lot of powerful rich.
Utel's got a little bit more than their fundraising department since then. But but your point's certainly well taken.
Okay, let me follow up because I'm not aware of that dynamic. What's your understanding of where Utah finds itself in this ecosystem?
Yeah, well, my understanding I've talked to some people, you know that work in the program and around the school. You know this summer about Hey, you know, over the last year, we've looked at ourselves and like, Okay, we need to get a lot better at major gifts. We need to get a lot better at cultivating athletic donors, not just for athlete payroll, but across our entire department
in big and meaningful ways. You know, we have to do more than just the occasional golf scramble, and we have to do more than just you know, letting ourselves be known as a place where some players might get truck And so they recruited staff to do that, and they spent a lot of time and energy on it,
and it's gotten better. I couldn't tell. I don't think I would feel comfortable saying on the air like what I think the payroll number is because some of the money that's being donated may very well go to facilities or capital projects or things that have nothing to do
with nil. But I would feel pretty confidence saying like, I don't think this athletic department is poor, and I think whatever lessons they learned from twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three have have been taken to heart, and they're going to be prepared to get the money that they need to be successful across multiple sports, which you have to be in the Big Twelve because like, nobody
is a complete financial bohemos. There's no Ohio State in that league, but there's also twelve schools in there that think, hey, if we just if we really go after it, we could be the top dog in here, which means that everybody is trying to do the same things that Utah and to some extent be why you were doing. It's gonna be very, very competitive.
When it comes to collateral damage, Matt. The University of Utah has already cut their beach volleyball program, and you know, I haven't heard a ton of pieces of collateral damage with other smaller sports being cut across the landscape of collegiate athletics like I thought I would. Do you anticipate more of things such as that, you know, having to just simply cut programs that are not close to generating any revenue and certainly not on the same level of basketball, football, Saga.
Do you think we're going to see a lot of that?
We are, but it's looking different, and I'm not surprised that we haven't seen a ton of sports being dropped at the powerflow level. A big part of that is because when you drop those kinds of sports, you tend to be a magnet for legal action. And when you look at what happened with Michigan State and with Eye and with Clemson, and when they tried to decrease the number of sports that they had, they all got in trouble with Title nine and they ended up having to
readjust some of some of their sports sponsorship. It's not uncommon right now to see sports being cut at the low major level. I would say that the one that is probably the most in danger almost everywhere is men and women's tennis especially. You know, not to get too political, but like this is the reality. Like men's collegiate men's and women's tennis tends to recruit overwhelmingly from from international
athlete pools. And if the federal government is going to make it harder to get student visas, or if athletes think that there's there's a greater risk of not being able to stay around the whole four years and it's harder to fundraise from those players after they graduate, that's an easy sport to drop. And when you get rid of one of those sports, it's not like you're saving a ton of money off the coach and the travel
for the tennis players. But if you decrease the total number of athletes you have, you can decrease your spending on your back end administrative services. Where you're going to see cuts way more likely is is way more often. Is what happened with Oklahoma a couple of weeks ago, where I think they cut like five percent of their
total athletic department staff. You're going to see the layoffs all over the power for and it's not going to be we're getting rid of the of the baseball team so much as we're getting rid of, you know, four people that used to work in developmental nutrition or analytics. We're going to get rid of academic support specialists. We're
going to get rid of communications staffers. We're going to let positions remain vacant when when when people retire, we're not going to We're going to hire a twenty two year old instead of somebody that has some more experience, and that's really sad for their families, and that could be bad for the industry at large. But I don't think you're going to see a wholesale retreat from from sports.
Entirely.
It's going to be how can we cut scholarship spending? How can we cut the infrastructure spending and maybe make those cuts fee a little bit less public.
So I wonder since you and I last spoke, Jake retz Laugh has announced his intent he's going to go to Tulane. Kind of some interesting timing because the transfer portal was not open, so they were unable to contact Jake directly.
They had to go through his reps.
I guess the head coach at Tulane recruited Jake out of high school. Okay, okay, So what do you make of Jake's decision? And it kind of inform us about how this process works when a player cannot enter the transfer portal and trying to find a new place to play.
I would say part of it is a little funny, And I'm saying, this is a guy that used to live like three blocks in Tulane's campus to go from a school with maybe four Jewish students and a ton of Mormons to then go to maybe the most Jewish program in FBS and tooled up might have four Mormons is a pretty traumatic shift just from like life, I think from a football perspective, the timing does make this really really interesting because as I understood it, like if
you're going outside of the portal and just enrolling, you start as a walk on, and you don't have you like you weren't there for spring ball, and you're not immediately in the team's facilities or around the team instantly. I mean like fall camp's going to open for almost everybody in a couple of days, So it's it's a little bit academic. But Tulane has good quarterbacks on the roster, like they're a team that's built to be competitive in
the American this year. I think it's difficult even if you're really good to come in and completely, you know, win a job when you when you when you have that that little prep time. I'm sure that you know, Jake's a smart guy, and I'm sure he's trying to pick up things, uh as best as he can schematically, and I'm sure Tulane wasn't wasn't bringing him into to
be a depth piece. But whether it's him or nearly anybody that ends up changing this close to the season, I think it's really difficult to come in and and and just dominate from day one unless you're Kaylen Williams and and you know, no disrespect like that's that's not what Jake is. So whether he's whether he's the opening
day starter, maybe maybe not. But if he is, like I wouldn't be surprised if if two angle is pretty run heavy or you're you're not seeing a ton of explosion h in the beginning of the season, and it takes a little time to win over a locker room with if you hadn't built those relationships and had those reps, it's not an easy situation for anybody.
We had Chase Hansen in studio this week.
Chase played at the University of Utah, played in the NFL, and he was a quarterback at Loan Peak, and he was an awesome high school player in the backyard of Lavelle Edward Stadium, and his father played at BYU.
It was this weird era.
Matt where for about I don't know, eight years, and it coincided with Broncos time at BYU. Bronco great football coach. Year one Utah State. We'll see what he does. But there were a lot of BYU alums that just didn't seem to like him much, and a lot of these alums had kids. It ended up playing elsewhere, namely the University of Utah, And of course it was a different time because Utah had the PAC twelve BYU was independent,
and Kyle really had the program ticking. But I asked Chase about the Jake situation and then how honor Code violations and stories that come out as a result, how how does it affect you when it comes to trying to choose where you want to play play football or play sports. He gave a really nuanced, complex, interesting answer.
As a member of the LDS Church who does not agree with the application and sometimes two tiered application of the Honor Code when it comes to athletes in students, how do you think these stories as someone who doesn't live here, but also as an understanding of the way this stuff works. How do you think the a story like Jake Rhetz laugh and the Honor Code violation? How do you think it lands with people across the landscape of simply being interested in sport?
I mean, when when when you hear this story and you're not tied to Utah and you're not tied to anywhere in the LDS extended universe and you just hear about this and I mean, like my phone has been blown up right up in the last couple of weeks. Was like wait, wait, like somebody somebody got suspended from having sex, Like that's a biological thing that that almost
almost everybody does. Like that's that's that's crazy. Well, I mean the situation is obviously in this particular case, may be a lot more complicated and nuanced than that, but it's it's a surprise. I like, no, this is this this this is a school that has has very uh just you strict laid out values that are expected to be followed for everybody, whether you're whether you're ld S
or not. And and then the response I think varies a little bit depending on somebody's faith background and and where they are in the country, and and and a
couple of other demographics. Right like, if you are somebody that came from a really strict Catholic home and spent your high school playing in in in parochial schools, and and were involved with other similar honor code systems, the idea that there might be uh, you know, university conduct policy that extends beyond the n C double A Handbook. I don't think that would be shocking if you're if you're from a really secular environment, uh, then that that
may be a difficult culture shift. Like what what I have heard from from people who have played there and gone to school there, and it's and and and you you you can you can find opinions about the honor code all over the BAP, even from very active engaged
Latter Day Saints. I think part of the challenge will always be when you are recruiting somebody who is an l DS and may feel like they don't have a real cultural advocate for them during that process, whether that's hey, I'm a I'm a I'm a black Stunthern Baptist, and like the people that I'm dealing with throughout all this honor code situation don't look like me, and they're they're they're mentioning words or stuff I don't totally understand, or
or from people that just don't come from this tradition. I know some folks come into by U and have a great experience even with all of that, some some people don't. It's not going to change. And and I I think I was more interested in pushing that harder earlier in my in my reporting career. Now it's like, this is just one of the ways this place is different. Sometimes some of the ways that it's it's different are good and beautiful and worth celebrating, and sometimes they're not.
And that's just kind of know. How you decide what is what it depends on who you are.
I guess well said, all right, final thing, and I'll set you loose.
Two Democrats Summerly and my guy Chris Murphy from my home state Connecticut, reintroducing a bill to affirm and expand college athletes rights to organize, form unions and collectively bargain with their universities and or conferences, according to the legislation.
I'm reading this from Ross Ross Dellinger. You know, Matt.
For me, I've always felt like this is the route that is inevitable. I feel like every time I kick the tires with you, it kind of depends on the way the winds are blown.
How are these winds blown?
Now?
Do you think we are high speed ahead to at some point, at least in football, these football players with the ability to unionize and collectively bargain.
No, I don't, And I know I know other reporters feel differently, and they may very well be right, But I would tell people here is like, based on the text of the bill that I that raw shared, and the chances that this gets through the Senate are less than zero percent. And the biggest reason actually has nothing to do with with sports at all. Right, Like what with Senator Murphy's trying to do is to expand the scope of the National Labor Relations Board to oversee both
public and private institutions. A there is absolutely not a single Republican in the US Senate that wants to make it easier or to expand unionization options for graduate students and university employees that are not currently covered under the NLRB. And nobody's going to even read the bills to get to the football park where they say nope, next it's it's legitimately more likely that like Congress gets rid of the NLRB entirely, or or a case goes to the
Supreme Court that gets rid of it. Then under the way the government stead of right now for that to get big get approved. While we're talking, like while Senator Murphy's doing this in the Senate, like the Score Act is advancing out of committee. It's like very likely to get a full floor vote in the House, which explicitly says athletes can't bargain because they're not employees. That will probably pass the House. I don't think it will pass the Senate, at least now, and at least not with
sixty votes. But the the there's there's some that could get really close. There are there are Democratic senators who will who will support that. In a in a different with a different president, with different lawmakers, could athletes, Uh, collective bargaining become more likely. Absolutely, And I would just say to anybody who's like, if you are sick of this and you think that collective bargaining is the option,
you need to look at who you're voting for. Because if if you're, if you're if you're sending people like Mike Lee to the Senate, they don't they do not see things the same way on this particular issue.
We live in a Mike free Mike Lee free zone on this program MA. Just so you know, Uh, but look, before I said you loose, where can I where can people go get your great work?
You can? You can find my stuff at extra points MB dot Com. I'm on Twitter at Matt Brown up has a story out today on the potential big changes in the college sports athletic apparel market that actually I think may be of interest to some Utah fans who may be wondering if you're going to be an under armored school forever. I've got something else coming out tomorrow on the subject that everybody wants to talk about, which is,
of course Division two college golf. It's more interesting than you think here, I promise in some realignment stuff coming. So if you love inside baseball nerd stuff, I think you'll love extra points.
Matt. Thank you, sir. Have a great weekend. Okay, you bet all right?
Do well?
My friend, all right, Matt Brown extra points.
I'm telling you that dude is a smart, smart guy covering college football. If you're looking for more information to try to help you understand how this thing is unfolding, including where we're at in Washington, with their involvement, with the potential of these players being able to unionize and collectively bargain. Matt's a great follow at Matt Brown EP is where you find them. All right, we have one
hour down, We've got three hours to go. On this Wednesday afternoon, we'll catch a break and coming up on the side Chris com Ronnie live in studio for an entire hour on a Wednesday drive. Good to have you along for the ride right here. Ron ESPN seven hundred join now live in studios. The show rolls along by my friend Melissa from Sound Sleep Medical. Melissa, how are you doing great? So we're not selling a seapap. Let's be very clear about that, and I have friends that
have tried a seapap. It's big, it's hard to travel with sometimes it could be a little bit annoying. So let's start with the device that you guys have developed. It's Sound Sleep Medical that can help people improve their overall quality of sleep.
Sure you know, it's call an oral appliance. It's kind of like bleach trays or a retainer. You just wear it in your mouth on your teeth during the night, take it out obviously when you wake up. What it will do is keep your airway open by just kind of stabilizing that lower jaw so it's not kind of collapsing back against the back of your throat. So it's going to make snoring go away. Oxygen stays up and you feel great when you wake up.
So I want to We'll get to the special offer in a moment. But I have some friends and fansamily members that have done sleep studies and have to like go into a facility for like three or four nights, hook up to all these machines and it basically.
Interrupts your life.
You guys have developed a process that's very convenient. So let's talk about this, the sleep process that people go through in the comfort of their own home.
Yeah, it's so much easier than what you just described. You know, that's, like you said, very inconvenient, usually very expensive.
We have an at.
Home sleep sleep kit. You can use our equipment at home in your own bed. It'll involve a strap around your chest, a little pultzoc scimitar on your finger, and a can youle that goes up to your nose to measure breathing. We're going to find out all sorts of great information on you, like what's going on with your blood, oxygen levels, your heart rate, do you stop breathing, how long does it last? You know, some people stop breathing for like two and a half minutes and they have no idea.
Man, all right, so let's get to the special offer. Melissa. Have our listeners who give you a call.
Today, call right now. The number is eight oh one three three five nine eight two four. You can also find us in Soundsleepmedical dot com. When you do that today during the show, you will automatically get a free test like I just described at home in your own bed.
Bring it back to us.
We'll download it, give you a free sleep consultation where one of our specialists will review those results.
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The problem with this bump is you can't step over it. You have to let it play.
Did you pick Chris?
Chris? This is James bead Approved.
Okay, okay, a little Phil Collins on a Wednesday afternoon, Chris Camaradi live in studio.
Ck Happy Wednesday. How are you?
I'm good man? How are you?
I'm good? Uh, you look a little weathered.
It's been it's been a while since I've been in studios. We had We had kind of had a gap where everybody was going every which way the last month or so.
Indeed, thank you for that. I look weathered, no, but I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there. I was out of town. We had big twelve media days, then I did the Portland thing, Love Portland, and then officiated the wedding.
You have been well.
Last time we had you on the show, you were starting the eight day journey of keeping a young person alive by yourself, which is why maybe the sleep pattern has been a little disrupted. So now that you've been a single father for eight days, what sort of lessons can you bestow upon the people.
Well, if you.
When in doubt, if you are feeling like the world is crushing you at the moment, remember that we have the luxury of for the most part, this thing called streaming. And if you need to breather, turn on some very annoying cartoon, which I tried not to do, but there were times where you just needed to do the the woosa, you know, yeah, and just relax, walk away and never have You can never have too many bars or snap.
Fruit bars, Z bar kids z bars.
You know, the the breakfast bars, It goes a very long way, so bars and television.
Basically Amanda has arrived homes so you have been rescued.
Yeah, it's a.
Different I can remember the first time I had solo duty when Connor was about Leo's age.
There's some anxiety, you.
Know, like there's like, okay, we got to we gotta make sure this goes well. I always get a kick out of, you know, because you reference the screens yep, and look, it's just inevitable. Every parent uses it and the only people that complain about it are people without children. I always got a kick out of, like I was. I think I was the first person in my friend group to become a parent, And I always get a kick out of, like advice I would get for my
single friends that have never had children. It's like, you don't know, so cut it out. So the people that clutch their pearls over screens simply do not have children.
I was.
I mean, the most humbling life experience, without a doubt, is becoming apparent one hundred on a multitude of levels. And I had all of my preconceived notions squashed into the ground, like uh, the bottom of a you know, a shoe at a rusted root concert, like just going boom squishing a bug. I guess they would they wouldn't.
Squish, and yeah, sorry, maybe I'll just go something more basic like pearl jam.
So yes, there was once upon a time that was me and then you you get thrust into it and then you realize, oh, I just have to make sure that I can get through the day, and maybe not even the day, the next hour, maybe not even the next hour, the next ten minutes.
It's moment by moment at times. Yeah, No, there's this great Louis Louis c K bid saw Louis c K and I get so you didn't end up going phenomenal.
I know that we've got to be like, hey, the stuff he did isn't okay, all right, still very funny, but he has this great bid where it's like, yeah, before you become a parent, you're like, I will show my child the wonders of the world and we will always be doing. And then you become a parent and you're like, oh my gosh, how do I keep it alive? Like that's that's the day to day goal, to make sure you're not.
Screwed it up.
Yeah, breakfast parts and television.
I'm happy for you and I'm proud of you.
Thank you.
And the weather thing was a bit.
I just know you're coming off the eight day stretch where you had to, you know, kind of hang out with Leo and make sure everything went well.
So welcome home, Amanda. Glad you survived, all right, c K.
Tomorrow is the opening of the summer transfer window in the world of Major league soccer.
We'll get to some college football. Everybody, It's okay the Score Act. Please don't ask me because I have no idea. You don't want to talk about the Score Act.
You want to talk about collective collective bargaining and unionizing and such. All right, that is stuck in Washington. It is probably not going to go through. Matt Brown joined us. Last segment. We covered all that.
We're gonna do that with you. So it's been interesting.
Pablo, a couple weeks ago, Hops on the show is like, we're going to sign for four players, so we're expecting four players. Kurt's a little more tempered, Jason's like everybody's dad. It's hard to exactly understand exactly how this is going to go. What are you expecting once the window opens multiple players, what positions and what do you think it means for RSL.
So, based on reports internationally and based off what I've been told, rsel's planning on bringing in two number nine one out and out number nine old school throwback center.
Forward type yep, love it.
Doesn't necessarily need to beat guys one on one, but is there for uh service from the wide area? Indeed, Alex Catronas exactly. And then another guy, Ruwan Kruz who's been at Botafogo, a club that RSL is too familiar with because they moved for since Avarino there. And then your guy uh Elias what was it Ilias Manu Manuel Yeah, ended up going there after saying he didn't want to come here. So it sounds like those two are either
done or close to being done. And then if that's the case, it's a fascinating decision because clearly that means that the club is not satisfied with what your guy. And you have many guys. Big Willie Golds, Big Willy Goles has has been able to to add to the mix. I think he has two goals too, okay.
But he has the ability to hold up.
He does.
But this but this, but this new guy apparently who I think you pronounced his name last week correctly, Victor Olatunji. Yeah, yep, younger twenty five years old, had a decent year at Sparta Prague, which is, you know, one of the better lower level clubs at a lower level in Europe. But yeah, it's an interesting move. I wonder if it changes how
Pablo wants to play. I wonder if one of those guys will be more tactfully tactically sorry ambiguous, meaning like they can play different spots or or if you know, Pablo has to change formation. Basically, they're not They're not a good offensive team. They haven't been all year. Their best offensive player was gone for five weeks, and they as we saw last week against Cincinnati, they were the better team against one of the better teams in MLS, but they weren't able to score any goals.
So go ahead, no, No, I was gonna say, I'm just looking for this secondary story because we talked about the old Atanji kid.
Is the oly Tannji kid, the true striker?
Yes, oh he is?
Yeah, okay, yep.
So what I was gonna say is yesterday on the show, Pablo refer to the two attacking players as a nine and a nine and a half.
So yeah, so yeah, there's your there's your there's your tactical, ambiguous player who can probably step in on the wing or play the ten. Because I think while a lot of people have fallen in love with the idea that Diego is a ten, I think he is another guy that can just float because of the amount of hard work rate that he puts in, you know, back on defense exactly. And Diego Gonzalbez, outside of his winner against Portland, just hasn't cut it.
Last week, he was very bad.
He brought a lot of promising attacking plays to a screeching hall against yes again by you know, due to his indecision. So yeah, and nine and nine and a half makes sense. But you know, oursel once again is banking on the summer transfer window in order to put wind in their sales, and I think that's a very dubious ass considering international players who come over in the summer do not exactly hit the ground running in this league.
We talked about that ad nausea.
And we've seen it here. Yeah, like multiple times. The mark suit stuff is weird, man, Like.
They they bet on a bunch of guys after the sale of Andrescomaz they didn't pan out. I mean, it's it's a bunch of swings and misses. But I did feel like there were moments with There were moments. Yeah, but it hasn't been for a very long time.
No, and Jason, when I get honest, Jay, excuse me, when I get honest, Jayson, it's it's a good time. He essentially said he's been horrible since he came back from Poland. I wonder, I wonder if it's homesickness. It's just another example of a guy that's signed in a summer window and you're like, wait a second, he's got some stuff and it just hasn't panned.
Out, hasn't panned out. Yeah, Diogo, Lachlan Brook your guy.
You gotta have some guy I'll take.
I'll take Lachlan, my guy, Lachlan Brook, who I would imagine it's not long for rsl on the crest of.
The shirt.
And Dominic Marxich, who they believed the cell of originally was Look what we just did with Andres. This can be your path and conceivably it works if you're able to I don't know, put everything that you're asked to put in training sessions and style of play into into into purpose. But we know that it took Andres over
a year with Pablo to to have everything click. But not every player has the pace that Andres has, or like the finishing ability he was, you know, uh, one of the top assist makers in the league last year before he moved. So three swings and misses last summer on the wake of in the wake of Andres sale, So now you have to wonder, you're bringing in two guys from from overseas, can they step in and alleviate the pressure from Diego Luna because outside of Diego there
just isn't much. And Xavier Gozo's been good, but he's you watch him, he's still a very young kid. You can still tell that he's maybe trying to do it all on his own way too often, which you know is part of the learning curve. Diego was like that a few years ago, which is why you know fans were up up in arms because you know, they were mad that Pablo was starting. I can't even remember guys that weren't that aren't even on the team anymore. Over Over,
Diego and you know, it takes some time. So if if if Rsel can find a way to get these guys in the mix, understanding how Pablo wants to play and acclimated quickly, then they have a chance. But like you asked me last week, if you know that that decent run of form, the four games, unbeaten or whatever, has me changing my thoughts about the ceiling of this team. The Cincinnati game was kind of a perfect encapsulation of who the team is this year.
Pablo also, I'm trying, I'm trying to think because you brought up Pablo not starting Diego because there was chi Cho, there was Andres, there was Matt Crooks, and and then there was a spot that Diego did fill, but it wasn't consistent. Pablo also referenced the potential of adding to the back line, which I thought was interesting because defensively they have been pretty stout. Rafa has been the best player probably outside of Diego on the roster.
So if if if we say.
They're bringing in the nine, the nine and a half, we'll use my guy, Pops, he's my guy. We'll use his language, uh, and then they're gonna make an addition to the back line. Let's say it's three editions. What do you think that total spend will be? Because we talked about this yesterday, I think the Millers have an opportunity to really gain some brownie points with the fan base that is understandably skeptical, skeptical about ownership and their
unwillingness to spend. For all the promises of the Blitzer Smith group, they didn't spend. You know, they did a little here or there, but then they ended up selling for a premium and didn't reinvest the money into the team.
And I don't think that sits well with fans.
So what do you think the spend looks like and what do you think the Millers could do during this window to maybe endear themselves to RSL fans that are waiting.
Right It looks to be on the surface right now, pretty similar to standard RSL spending practices reports out of Europe. Is you know two and a half? I think for all Atunji, I don't know if our guy Tommy Scoops has has been able to confirm that or not. I haven't seen anything, but that is kind of on part
with what RSEL you know, buys players for. Like I think mark Zuk was one five Ish Diogo was three, I think, and you know when you get for the for the cruise guy coming from Boda Fogo, it's a little different because the loan option you don't really have to pay all that much, but they you can loan with an intent to potentially buy, so they'll they'll get a player on loan and then Botafogo, his club will say, if you like him enough, this is our price point.
If you want to buy him at the end of his loan spell, this is how much you have to pay now. I would imagine that will be much higher because of you know, Botafogo is one of the best teams in Brazil. This kid, by all accounts, has promise young player, big stout guy. But if they bring in a third player, I would imagine it could be within the league, maybe through a trade mechanism, or if they
are going to add a right back or whatever. You're not going to necessarily break the bank at that position. But all in all, if you're if you're talking about money spent, I would be stunned. If oursel goes over five million this summer transfer window total.
Is it cruise? I believe it's cruiser.
Okay, our guy Tommy has nothing on it, but I have some info on him in front of me. Yeah, Big Kid twenty four and I think the old Tanja Kid is twenty five.
Yep.
So Jason and Kurt and Pablo have been pretty consistent that they're not looking for some quick fix. They want to add to the group that could essentially grow together because it is a young core. I guess these moves would indicate that that's the direction.
Yeah, but.
It's again, it's it's asking a lot, and I would argue too much for two brand new players and to come in to gel with guys that they've never met, to play in a new country that they've never met, to get on those you know, flights and fly all over the country and get used to the the weather conditions and all those various dynamics that you face here versus everywhere. I guess Brazil you're hauling quite a bit.
It's a huge country. But like my point is is that more often than not, you need all types of international players to be in if you're going to bring them in in the in the true off season in order for them to have a full off season with the team. But that doesn't always work out, as we've seen in previous years. Times you just kind of have to take take what you get. But yeah, oursel is they're put They're putting their chips in on the attack, which they knew that they had to do.
So time will tell if it pays off.
What was your highlight from the MLS Skills Challenge last night? What was your favorite moment?
Oh, diego hitting, hitting the hitting the targets.
Did you watch it?
I saw a clip on the internet.
I didn't watch it.
No, No, MESSI though MESSI was like, I'm not doing this.
And he's not playing tonight either.
I mean, I guess, very very you don't blame him, but it's hilarious that this dude, basically and we knew this was going to be the case, he gets to call his on shots like at a level that no other professional player maybe in the history of sports, has been able to do.
Yeah, and I know this is a false equivalency, but I do harken back to the Beckham experiment.
Shout out ground Wall, Rest in Peace yep. Great book, by the way, yep.
And I was tremendously impressed at how much Beckham got it. He knew why he was there, right, and so he showed up wherever they asked him to show up, he showed up. You're playing in the All Star Game, you're making this road trip. And did he get hurt? Of course? But and again I know it's a false equivalency because Beckham is not messy, because nobody's messy. But you think MLS is recouping what they hope to recoup based off of the investment.
That's a great question, I wonder, and this will come out probably in the coming years, like what the Apple deal really was able to accomplish, if anything at all.
I don't. I don't think the returns have been great.
I don't by all accounts, probably not. But the reality is is you're able to sign the best player of all time and bring him in. But we talk about this, We talked about this, Damn's topic all the time. Is soccer going to change in this country because of ABC or D No?
No, it's not. It's awesome.
If MESSI came here, you and I would be like, how do we get on the train for sure and go to aff and maybe go get some Costa Vita and you know, enjoy the night. Yeah, right, yeah, ok, yeah, right, I like it, but it's outside of him making a few appearances on PTI every once in a while.
Like it just.
It.
It was awesome. It is awesome, but it's not it's not gonna ever, it's gonna pale in comparison to what Beckham did. I think, just because because where the league was at the time.
Yeah, and Beckham's continued investment in the league and continued involvement in the league and desire to spend time here.
It it really was.
As much as the Beckham thing could have worked as a game changer, it actually did. I don't know that the league could have milked anything else out of that whole situation, because he was such an ambassador and he was so nice. It was the wildest thing to talk to David Beckham, this global superstar, global celebrity. His celebrity at the time may have out taste his soccer.
So handsome, good looking dude, yep.
Weird, high pitched voice, but so nice, like when when we had him here, every time he was here, could not have been better. The league really better.
Right, I told you my story right about at the Virgin.
Store yeeah, yeah, at ICD stores by the.
Way, shout out Virgin Megastore at the Gateway for sure. Great great location. I mean, the Gateways making a comeback a little bit, is it. I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it to do. They got a cool little food cord down there. But yeah, me and David Beckham the only people in the Virgin Megastore on like a Tuesday and just me just being like hey man, and he was like, hey, how's it going on?
Yeah, okay, cool, No, that's rad.
The kids will never understand the era in life where you heard one good song and then had to go pay seventeen ninety nine for a CD that mostly sucked out side of one good song.
Spotify would have saved me so much money.
That's a good way. That's a good point. We should rank our top five underwhelming album purchases of all time next week.
I will come back. That's a good one.
I'll have to think about that one.
That's good when we can even put in a little breakout graphic. Top five, you know, top five spans top five. Chris, I like it. Let's do top Let's do it on Wednesday.
I have one answer right off the top of my head.
Okay, I was in high school and uh, driving home in basketball practice, I believe and hold my hand from Hooty and the Blowfish came on the radio.
Don't look at me that way.
I'm being vulnerable and honest here, my guy, I'm like, I like this song. I'm gonna go buy a Hoodie in the Blowfish CD.
And it sucked. It was a bad, bad move.
Is Hoody and the Blowfish the worst jam band of the nineties?
Don't call them a jam band please, They're not.
How about the most the biggest failed attempt at a jam?
Yes, that's yeah, that's accurate. String Cheese incident maybe on the list as well. See this is what you do now, it's all I'm thinking about. The top five most underwhelming albums of all time?
All right, final RSL thing.
We'll do some college football coming up on the other side, because you reference, you know, last year summer transfer window, three pretty big swings and three pretty big misses, and maybe, like we have to be fair, Diego has been better.
But he could not have been worse.
Like if it was worse, he probably already would be on his way somewhere else.
See that's how bad it was for a while, or they can't get anybody to take him, also a possibility.
Do you think Elliott deserves a little more credit for the I think it was three years, four years on the job as the g.
Oh yeah, I mean we listen. He was there when they were basically being run by the league during.
The Deloitte fiasco.
He facilitated bringing in guys like even though he would eventually become a locker room headache, like since Avno is one of the most talented players that's ever played. For sure, like I think right now, I know, I know your guy Jason is all about vibes in the crest. RSL would take a Sava Reno right now, like it's not there's no question. So and I know they had a pass with him because he left, then came back and left again. But yes, Elliott deserves some flowers.
Yeah, and the results bear it out. And we'll see what this new window brings the club. Right now, they're still on the outside looking in, but have a chance to make the postseason.
If you can make the playoffs, you never know what could happen.
All right, before we catch a break, want to let you know you can help two hundred children at the road home start school and style. Stop by the advocates and Ogden, American Fork or Murray. Pick an apple from the tree and you can supply clothing and backpacks for a child at the road home. Every child deserves an advocate. Stop by today. See ESPN seven hundred Sports dot com
for more details. Will catch a break more with k coming up on the other side right here on ESPN seven hundred show rolls along today and my friend Melissa from Sound Sleep Medical joined us live in studio once again.
Melissa, how are.
You doing great?
All right?
Poor sleep affects people's health in several different ways. How have you seen those things improve? From clients that you've had to go through your program utilize the oral appliance and improve their overall sleep.
How does their help improve?
Well, it improves a you know one is just your quality of life will improve. There's a lot of people out there who are tired from morning tonight. That's a really hard way to live your life. So fix your sleep. Suddenly you have more energy to engage with work. It's just a lot easier. But there's many ways that it's going to affect your health. You know, one that we haven't talked about yet. Is metabolism. Say you're working out, dieting, doing everything you can, and those pounds just are not
coming off. It could be that you have untreated sleep apnea and that is affecting things like stress, hormones, blood sugar levels. It just becomes a lot easier or a lot harder to lose weight.
Yeah, fix your sleep and that's all better.
And I'm sure some people are thinking, Okay, they're talking about sleep apnear, they're going to sell me a seatpath.
It's not a seatpath. It's an oral appliance.
Since you offer a warranty on it, it's covered by most major medical insurances. So tell us about this this appliance you guys have developed.
It sounds sleep medical. Yeah, this is a legit medical device.
I mean it's a three D scan of your teeth, so it's the perfect size, perfect fit. You just wear it on your teeth during the night, kind of like a bleach tray or a retainer. But I mean it's been studied, proven to work, obviously, that's why insurance will help you with it. It does qualify for HSA flex spending. A lot of us are meeting our deductibles. This time of year, great time to.
Get in and what's the special offer you have for our listeners who give you a call today?
So call right now.
The number is eight oh one three eight five nine eight two four. You can also find us and schedule at soundsleepmedical dot com. We're automatically for every person going to give you a free sleep screening, which is the test you get to do at home in your own bed, free sleep consultation, where you bring it back, we'll download it, give you those results. All of that, no obligation with the show today.
It is a great deal, so call today, save money, improve your sleep and improve your health with our friends it Sounds Sleep.
They have six locations in Utah. Get weird on a Wednesday.
The Little George Michael I don't hate It, Chris Comaradie live in studio, Any motivations with you landing on this George Michael track and you're talking to a George Michael fan, unapologizing.
You asked for eighties music. It's a good one, it is, and it is part of lots of silly, bad nineties comedy movies. The first one that comes to mind this night at the Roxbury or the Roxbury.
Yeah, it's it's and it's a good I mean.
It works.
I don't have to tell you this, Chris, but we are thirty eight days away from kickoff for the top football.
Where did the summer go? I'm depressed.
I know, man, we blink in it's here. We still have a good few months of warm weather.
Oh yeah, for sure, but there's I don't know. The summer I feel like is getting shorter as we get older.
That's fair, okay, But you're going to be on assignment soon.
Any exciting athletic college football endeavors you'd like to inform us about.
Well, yeah, I'm going to be going to the air Lingus Classic or whatever it's called in Dublin, Ireland for Week zero of college football Iowa State Kansas State, which is known in some circles as the Pharmageddon rivalry never been. My assignment is to go over and figure out how college football is landing in the homeland, even though I might not look like it. I'm fifty percent Irish.
Are Irish?
Yeah okay, yep, so might have to go find my ancestry somewhere. I'll get to be there for I mean it's cool, but it's also like going international for three and a half days, but my brain and body will be not in a great place. Takes a minute to recalibrate correct. So yeah, that's that's on the horizon. So yeah, you talked about thirty eight days till Utah kicks off. I'm going to be on a flight across the pond much earlier than that.
That sounds exciting.
I have an aunt who is very adapted genealogy.
If you want me to put you in touch for there?
Does she work for the company that got hacked?
I don't believe.
So.
I feel like every extended LDS family has one or two family members that just crush genealogy.
Yeah, do you have one?
I don't, but maybe I'll get your aunt's contact info.
Yeah, I mean you put you in touch with the folk who you need to go say hello?
Do they find them?
I have no idea.
See, Like, that's where I'm I understand the Internet is is awesome but also dark and scary. Indeed, how do you I guess I'll just have to entrust him. I mean, there is that one show where they have the celebrities on and they like they track their their ancestry, and it's been like, you know, they get celebrities on and do all that thing. But I just don't know, like who's trying to care about me? But maybe the internet does.
It's a good question. I honestly don't know the method behind the madness. But my aunt is insanely organized. Like every year at our reunion we do the thing.
She based in Utah.
She lives in Arizona now okay, but she rolls up for the family reunion.
Then we sit down and we learn it.
I will thank you.
Are you as obsessed with this astronomer CEO Coldplay story.
As as I?
Admittedly? When I was in the throes of parenthood solo last week, I missed it originally, but I finally caught on and very funny. Apparently RCEL had a pretty good fan gag they did at their expense last week. Listen, man can't get caught slipping And Chris Martin, I don't know. I don't know if if if he had a if there's a vendetta in play here, or if he just saw somebody who looked really happy and was like, I'm happy for those guys.
But I don't know that there was anything milicious behind it. It looked like a lovely couple experiencing a cold Play.
Concert for about point five seconds.
There's so many incredible angles here, like the fact that the woman is the head of HR for the company just makes it. Yes, shout out John Paul Chef's kiss. Unless I've missed something, because the other thing there was like a statement that was going around that turned out to be fake that the astronomer CEO apparently released, but then it wasn't his statement, so I don't really know what the latest is. Apparently he's been fired. The board got together and was like, this is a bad look.
My favorite part is the woman's husband has said nothing. I'm just kind of obsessed with this dude, Like I wonder if it's like a get out of jail free card for him, if he's like, free your last, free last.
Or if he's like, can I get free coal plate tickets out of this?
They're gonna get paid the CEO's wife, if you gonna make some cash?
Never heard? Is it astronomer astronomer? What is the company?
I don't know see is this good for that company?
In the day and age where currency is attention, is it actually something that will benefit the company.
Maybe maybe a blip, but I want to say it's like an AI thing, But maybe I'm wrong.
The whole thing is just I don't know.
It's sad in a way, but also very comical in a way that that's how they were outed. I do not have a stomach for cheaters. But you know, anyway, back to college football. So speaking of cheatings, yeah, talk about a segue.
Here we go back to college football.
We are right around the corner Big ten Media Days right now in Vegas at Mandalay Bay. Were you asked to go to any media days? You were not assigned any negative How did you get out of that stuff?
Very carefully?
I truly would like to know how you get out of this.
Well, Luckily, our staff size is pretty decent, and I work with people who are a lot more famous in the in the world of college football reporting, and they know if they put me out there, I'm just going to draw so much attention to myself, you know.
Because that's how you are. Yeah. Well, at Big twelve Media Days, there was a room allocated to the athletic Yeah, and Mike Feldman, Yeah.
Bruce was there, David Euban was there. Justin Williams was there. Chris Vanini, who is my guy, and for a multitude of reasons. He for some reason, people at our company and readers confuse us all the time because of the slight similarities between the sounding of our last name.
Camrodnie Vanini.
So like there's been multiple times where people have like sent me a slack and be like, hey, I have a question about your story. It's like, Nope, not me. It's Chris.
Interesting.
So he's my Italian brother.
Well, let's get him on the show because I read what Chris ries so today Matt Baker, you know, Matt.
Good friend of the Good Friend of the program, a genius when it comes to open records requests, and just a very very good reporter. He was hired in the last year and he's been a terrific ad.
So really interesting piece today.
Actually, I guess it came out yesterday because Sean was talking about it on his show. Because you know, this is the time of year where you start to read the college football previews, you start to listen to the college football pods, and you start to get ready for the season. And I'm always reminded how many idiots cover the sport and how many.
Like idiots cover all sports.
It's true, but I'm always reminded when I dig back in, like, oh, this media ecosystem actually contains a lot of people that clearly are pandering to the conference they cover or the school they cover, and their fans are not media members.
And there's this.
Kind of landscape of Big twelve media that's starting to feel like the way PAC twelve media felt at the very end. Like John Canzano came on the show and he was basically outlining his side of things, and it was draped in this belief that the PAC twelve was going to make it, because of course he covers the PAC twelve.
He wants the conference to survive. It's better for him and his business and his sub stack or whatever he's doing. And I push back on the things that he was bringing to the table because I just disagree with him.
He started yelling at me that I wasn't listening. I'm like, I'm listening, but you're wrong. This thing is done. It's dead. You could tell with all of the horrible decision making that went back all the way to Larry Scott and look the first four or five years of Utah in the PAC twelve. Larry Scott walked on water here because he was the commissioner that was part of the decision
making process that landed Utah on the Big twelve. And then of course George Klaioffcoff, they wait way too long to go to market with their rights.
We know the deal.
And Gonzano's like yelling at me that I'm not listening to them. I'm like, I am listening to You're just wrong. This thing is cooked. And I keep hearing this like Big twelve media approach to try to spin it like the Big twelve was on par with a Big ten in the SEC, which it is not in any way, shape or form.
Not competitive, not on a competitive level, not.
On a revenue generating level, not on a national interest level.
There's no world where.
The Big twelve is even close to the Big ten of the SEC. And Matt today with a really interesting exercise NCAA FBS program valuation projections.
I rtied that for you. Thank you, I seriously did. I thought like this would be good for.
Well, That's exactly why it came up on my feet because I follow Mat now, but I didn't prior to your retweet. So, of the top thirty schools, I already read the list. But of the top thirty schools, there are two Big twelve schools. One is Utah with evaluation of five hundred and thirty nine MIL. One is TCU with evaluation of five hundred and twenty three MIL. Okay the top and you guys know which conferences they're in.
Okay.
All of these schools are either in the SEC or the Big Ten. Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, Notre Dame in Michigan, Bama, Oklahoma, USC, Tennessee, LSU, Penn State, Florida, Auburn, Oregon, Texas A and m Washington Nebraska. The first team on this list that's not in the Big Ten of the SEC is Florida State. Who's in the ACC Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, all ranked ahead of any of the Big twelve schools, which is Utah TCU.
I mean.
Another piece of evidence is to where this conference exists in the ecosystem of college football.
Regardless of what people who shill for the conference want to tell you.
The wise man once said, if you will it, it is no dream. Oh Walter subcheck like the Big Labask yeah, I mean I'm with you. It seemed like that that's kind of where the conference finds itself. And granted a couple of years of like astoundingly good football changes this. If the Big Twelve can get two or three teams in the playoff in the next three years, I think maybe you start to, you know, peel back the onion a little bit. Maybe you can weasel your way into
the conversation. But until you do that, ain't nobody going to be changing the status quo for you, no matter how much you no matter how much you talk about it, no matter how much the Shills want to just say, like, I promise this is gonna happen. I promise this is a big deal. No man, The powers that be are the powers that be for a reason, and the Big Twelve has so much work to do. You know, they
have good basketball programs, it's great. But other than that, the moneymakers football it is, always will be, and it does not bode this conference well that every off season you're gonna be able to go in and be like throw a dart at the board and be like, who's gonna win it this year? UCF Okay, Houston, all right, Utah, sure, b Yu whatever like, that's that's gonna wa that's the conference is going to be this way for a while.
That's the reality they're facing.
BYU's valuation comes in at fiftieth in the country and ninth in the Big twelve at three hundred and six million.
That felt low to me.
Too many extenuating circumstances.
It's such a unique place, as you know, it's a private school, so probably not everything is going to always be publicly divulged.
They're not.
They're not subject to public record requests or grammar requests.
But I agree with you. My guess would be that that's part of the reason why.
Yeah, and maybe it's a lack of understanding or the lack of information to your point, because I think what Matt did is really fascinating.
Jake raetzath Lands.
Of tu Lane, Yeah, are you stoked?
Sure?
Matt Brown, And Matt's funny guy. He had a funny line he said.
Jake just left the place where there are four Jews and hundreds of thousands of Mormons to go to a school where there's hundreds of thousands of Jews and probably four Mormons. Yeah, a little bit of a culture shot for our guy.
I think, I mean, the manner in which Jake's BYU career ended is messy, and it's unique to the school, but it is it is somewhat like intriguing that we as a as a college football ecosystem are so fascinated where Jake Rhetzlaf is going. Like Jake was a decent quarterback, but like he wasn't. This isn't Zach Wilson the year he went number two in the draft. Like Jake was good and b Yu was you know, in the mix
for the conference title late into November. But it's I mean, Jake has to beat out a bunch of other guys a too lane brought in as transfers. I mean, Jake's not even a transfer, He's a walk on because the portal's not open.
Yeah, that was kind of a weird dynamic, this whole thing. They weren't even allowed to contact him go they had to go through his reps. Colorado three hundred and twenty eight mil. That's eleventh in the Big twelve. Found that kind of interesting.
Ninety nine percent of that is due to Dion for sure.
It is actually excuse me, that's seventh in the Big twelve. It's actually a couple of spots ahead of BYU. I'm stunned that we have not seen this actually come to fruition where private equity has been infused into college football.
It feels like it's just a matter of time.
I think Greg Sinki was asked about this at SEC media days or one of the commissioners was recently, and they said, right now, it just it doesn't make sense for their conference. So if you have somebody publicly saying that, I mean, I guess we're still a little ways away. But as we've seen that nothing matters. Everything is up subject to change. It's going to change. The CSC got, you know, sued into oblivion in just a matter of
weeks and now they're backtracking on all their stuff. Like at this point, I understand why some fans would want to understand the minutia of at all. But for a lot of fans, my guess is just like, let's just wait till we line up and kick the ball.
Yeah.
I think most people, you know, I am interested in the mechanisms that makes the sport tick. How many regular sports fans consumers are interested in those things?
I don't know.
I think most people, to your point, just want Saturdays in the.
Fall, Saturdays in the fall, and just less Migraines.
Oh, how are we doing there?
By the way, we're getting there. You're hanging in exceerin Migraine.
You got Etcen.
You have it like in a holster, ready to ready to access at any time.
Just throw it out there.
You know who will be the MVP of the MLS All Star Game tonight?
Are we assuming it's an MLS player or lega MS?
I don't.
I'm gonna say I couldn't name.
Five players, man, no idea?
Can you name one other player and that's not Diego Luna on the MLS All Start team.
Hey, we got to get roosters in here. Uh did Chea make it?
Yeah?
Don't ask me questions you can't answer. Put me on the spot like that, man, did Aaron Herrera make it? Do we exclude former RSL player?
No? Just keep bringing up former RSL players?
Dude, I don't watch MLS outside r I watch RSL the other night. Uh, nothing was going on, So I think I fired up El Classico.
That was kind of fun, But no, I don't watch our.
Traffic co bro, Come on, see how dare you offended.
On several levels. C K will set you loose. Good to see you all right, Chris Camarondie. We're going to bring in Ryles today. Voice the Youths will join us. My friend Reese Peck, friend of the show, is also going to stop by today live and studio. Appreciate Chris's time for stopping by today. Uh so we'll get to some of the other storylines. R s L is an action of local interest coming up on Saturday, Chichio Orango.
We'll be back in town.
But we are joined live in studio by a very special guest, our friends at Rooster's Brewing. Jamie stops by on a Wednesday. Right is that you?
I'm actually read?
You're ready? Wait, your name is read? My name is okay, good, let's get your right in front of that microphone.
Madeline. Nice to meet you. How are you nice to meet So? Is it an easy parallel to say people call you red because you have red hair?
Well, honestly, my granddad called me red when I was growing up, and as I worked in restaurants, it just kept sticking around.
Are you one of those like lifetime in the service industry restaurant folk?
Oh yeah, I got my first serving job at fourteen in.
Oklahoma at fourteen in Oklahoma, and you've kind of just ridden with it, huh, pretty much. See, I did it for let's get your right in front of that microphone. There you go.
I did it for six months in college. Yeah, which is a good everybody should.
Have the experience.
I completely agree.
I was not very good at it, and uh, you know, I'm glad that I.
Was able to find a ways to make a living. What do you like most about working in the service industry?
Man, I know it's probably it's pretty cliche to say, but I love the people. I love getting this, like spend time especially. I've always worked at restaurants that have regulars. Sure, the bar worked out in college. I mean literally people walk in and you're pouring their drink before they sit down. That's fun, and I just like kind of building those relationships. I'm pretty scatterbrain or I to do multiple things at once. So if it's my personality, well.
Well it's it's I always had tremendous rear because I worked with like professional servers, and they make good money, they know how to do it, they're organized, and you know, I think the first night I made like twelve bucks, and I went and got some Wendy's and I had like five dollars left over. So I'm like, I need to find something else to do something else. So Madison, we're flying blind a little bit.
Here.
Are you with Roosters or are you with ketos?
So I am with Roosters, You're with Roosters. I'm the Layton brewer for Roosters Brown Company.
Okay, very nice. So Rooster's Brewing four locations too in Ogden, one in Leyton, and then one at the Airport Roostersbrewing Co dot Com. What do you want our listeners to know about? What do you have going out of Roosters.
Well, we're kind of in the middle of our beer fest season. Tomorrow is Pian Beer Day, the little spinoff of Pioneer Day. Then indeed, indeed down at the Bee Stadium, we're going to be doing a beer fest that has dessert pairings. We're doing our honey Wheat with a bread pudding so I can buy and grave a little slice of that. It's honestly, it's a really wonderful event that they do for Pioneer's Day each year. We also have
a couple other events coming up in October. We're actually having our very own brew.
Fest up in Ogden, Are you really?
We are for the love of beer.
We've done it a couple of years. It's been a couple of years since we've done it, but when we first started opening, we did a couple fests, and this year with for our thirtieth anniversary, it is indeed, we decided to bring it back and we're going to do a whole big kit kaboodle off Bee Street in Ogden.
It's October eleven.
Very nice.
I'm glad that you're able to tell me about these things because my talking Points have an event on June twenty first, so we're going to just go ahead and put that aside. So before we set you loose all the locations where can people go get more information?
Absolutely so. Our original location that's thirty years old this year is on twenty fifth Street in Ogden. Our tap room which is a bar. All the other Roosters restaurants are family friendly, but the tap room at b Street is a bar, so you got to make sure you're twenty.
One before you head there.
We also have our late location and we have the location in the airport, so right.
After you get through security. You can't miss it.
Great to see you. Thanks for the knowledge and information. And you seem like a very pleasant person. I'm sure you're excellent at your job. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
All right, we got two hours down, two hours to go. We will catch a quick break and bring in the Voice of the Ute, Bill Riley, coming up on the other side.
Right here on the ESPN seven hundred thirty eight days, thirty eight days away. Utah football is almost here.
It's that time of year where it's tiding to look forward and get excited. And we've got big ten media days at Vandalay.
Bay in Las Vegas. Did I say Vandalay Seinfeld on the mind? Mandalay Bay, Mandala Industry shout out?
And then the AC is in Charlotte, the Voice of the Utes, and I believe Seinfeld fan Bill Riley on a Wednesday Rouse, Happy Wednesday?
Are you would that be art? Vandala and Vandale Industries.
What a weird error calling Mandalay Bay Vandalai Bay.
I have recently done the Seinfeld rewatch. It is highly recommended.
Cromerica Industries.
Perhaps what is uh?
Oh wait, you're a wire guy like the Bill Riley Mount Rushmore of TV series.
Do you have you have your top four?
Wire one? I would say Game of Thrones too, well, Matt, anywhere they're on, they're up there.
I am a.
Really big Spence Friday Night Lights fan. The television show it was. It was fantastic, And then I would say probably Breaking Bad.
Good call. Have you done a second rewatch on any of them?
Well, I've probably watched The Wire four or five times. It's one of those go tos. And then occasionally you'll just pick one out. A Game of Thrones one rewatch, Breaking Bad a rewatch, and Friday Night Lights probably three or four rewatches because it went off the air like fifteen years ago.
So what's the Ryles take on Sopranos.
I like the Sopranos, probably in my top ten. My only issue with the Sopranos, and again it was early appointment watching television. There was always one or two episodes in a season that really had nothing to do with the season plotline. Tony would go to Las Vegas and trip on acid and have weird dreams or you know, just something wild. So I love the Sopranos, but it's not quite Mount rushmore for me.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Where would you rank college football on just the pantheon of watching TV?
Well, in person watching amazing and on TV pretty good too, depending on who's producing it. Probably my favorite in person watch, just because of the passion and the difference in the state. I love the NFL, don't get me wrong, but the NFL is kind of all the same. Different levels of play on the field, high level, but the stadiums all kind of this.
I like the.
Different traditions and venues and parts of the country you get with college football.
So thirty eight days out riles. What's this time of year on the calendar? Like for the voice of the youths and the director of broadcasting, what's the energy in the building right now?
Well, it's kind of I mean, it's a week from today the practice starts spend, so it's kind of counting it down and getting excited. And we launched today our podcast series of my podcast with the different coaching staff.
We're going to do two a week.
We'll have one drop today on the Utah Athletics and Utah Football social media channels. And I talked to every coach on the Utah football coaching staff so I did those a couple of weeks ago, and they were just great insights on the guys but also on football and
what their expectations were for the season. That kind of got me excited a month ago, But now that we're a week away and thirty eight days from that game at UCLA, and I think I always get a little more excited too when you know you've got a good opener.
I don't know how good UCLA is, but they're going to be better than a one double a opponent, and going back to the Rose Bowl brings back great memories regular season, postseason, So probably a little bit more excitement just based on the expectation for the year and where that opener is and the opponent that that we're going to see in the opener.
Which of the coaches were in the podcast series? Which episode drops today today?
Is the first? And I believe it's Morgan Scaley. So I let it off with the longtime defensive coordinator for Carnity, brother of yours.
Indeed in Hawk No Bill, Come On, Get It Right.
And in Hope, and.
Had a really good conversation with Morgan and just kind of talked a lot about, you know, last season, and this season and what he's expecting coming back, and you know, the excitement around the team and the program. I just think that there's you know, we've talked about it, there's a real excitement and energy about it. And you know, he's got a lot of continuity on the defensive side and good coaches. But it was a fun conversation with Morgan.
So you guys, listeners can go to the you know, the different Utah Social, utaih Athletics, Utah Football and you know you'll see a snippet in there of the podcast and then the full full length there'll be a link to it, and they're all about twenty minutes each. But it's a good it's a good insight for the different coaches and position groups.
How do you feel like Morgan is handling the And look, he's still young, so he's got a lot of coaching in front of him. Part of me just wonders if he's kind of chomping at the bit to kind of put his own stamp on the program as the head coach. And obviously Kyle is back.
Kyle's on a contract and Kyle will coach as long as Kyle wants, and he has earned the right to walk away when he wants to, and he's earned the right to let us know when that time comes. But what sort of kind of energetic feel did you get from Morgan? How do you think he's kind of handling the dynamic?
Well, I think the dynamics fine, because he's you know, this is he's been kind of coaching waiting a couple of different times, and this time it's I just think he knows the job is his and he didn't talk about that. He's not going to talk about that or you know, he's just going to talk about the season ahead and the team. But you know, you wouldn't be human if you weren't thinking about next year or the year after, whenever that time happens to be, because then
it's going to be yours. So yeah, he's never going to talk about it publicly just because that isn't how he is, because it's not his till it's his. But I would guess in his mind, and you know Morgan, he's very meticulous, very analytic. He's he's probably begun at least in his head, planning for whenever that day happens to come.
What are from your viewpoint the similarities between Kyle and Morgan, and what are the differences, Because there are times where I'll be listening to Morgan oppressor or interviewing him or whatever. I'm like many sounds a lot like Kyle, and then knowing Morgan for as long as I have, I know that he very much is his own man. What do you perceive to be the similarities and the differences between the two coaches?
Well, I think from the well, I think the personalities from a football standpoint are very similar.
I mean, why wouldn't they be.
Morgan played for Kyle, Morgan played in this defense. Morgan has spent his entire coaching career working with Kyle Whittingham. So the mindset, the philosophy. I'm not saying that Morgan doesn't. He kind of does his own thing. It's not in lockstep, but they think very similarly with how they want to run a defense and things like that. I think their personalities are different where Kyle is you know, Kyle's a little bit more laid back and he's a little bit
more dry with his humor. Morgan, you know, Morgan, Morgan can be you know, in the right situation, he can be very very playful, kind of goofy, practical joker. Sometimes you hear people tell stories about practical jokes. He polls with with other coaches inside the building. So I think from a football mindset they're very, very similar. Their personalities are probably a little bit different, though I.
Want to ask you about actually one more question about the defense, because as you referenced, a lot of continuity, a lot of returning starters. One of my favorite conversations in Dallas was with Lander Lander Barton. We were lucky enough that Paul Kirk didn't know we had him out already, so Paul brought him over and we had like another twenty twenty five minutes, which was great, And unlike you, he wasn't ripped from us when we were interviewing him.
Mister, I have a handler now.
But anyway, if I forced you to give me a question mark you have defensively, whether it's a position group or an individual player, even though it feels like that side of the ball is always fine, what would you say to that?
Bill?
Oh, I don't think. I think there's a little bit of a question with the edge rushing, because really the only guy with any and it's not a super long resume because of the injury is Logan Fano. The other guys are really talented, but they don't have a lot of experience or reps under their belt. Now, say what you will about that, Utah tends to find and develop defensive lineman very very well. But the linebackers, I mean, from Lander to Levanni de Mooney to John o'hall to
a guy like Trey Reynolds, the linebackers are fine. Secondary safeties corners. I think there's a little bit of a question mark at the opposite corner from from Scooby Davis because they've got a couple of transfers. That'll be a little bit of a battle in fall camp. But for me, I'm just curious to see, you know, who emerges as
a real pass rush threat. And if Fano is back one hundred percent, can he kind of reclaim that form of a couple of years ago He kind of turned it on a little bit at the end of the year, kind of like Lander Barton did coming off that injury in twenty three. But that would be the question at least that I think, you know, you've got to see some game action to know when that will happen, so that that would be my by one question about the defense.
When it comes to the health issues over the past few years. I think it was last season, maybe season before last, but coach Witt was very front facing and salient about the points he was making as far as how they went about camp to try and curtail that. I don't know that you can, honestly, in a sport like this. I just think you have to ride the wave. And every team at every school has these weird seasons
that they're pretty much derailed by injuries. But as far as the approach of the team in camp before kickoff, any information enlighten us as far as trying to keep these guys healthy as long as you possibly can, even though they're playing a violent game.
Yeah, like you said, Spence, you can. You can only curtail it so much. Now fall camps, whether it's the NFL or college are way different than they were ten years ago, twenty thirty years that. You know, you don't have two a day practices anymore.
You don't.
The NFL doesn't do them that way either. To make the most of your time. Kyle has talked about using kind of an NFL model for his training camps this year, where you know, you have the first week of ramp up and acclamation, which you're required to do by rule. But he's taking a little bit of an NFL approach where some days are shells, some days are full contact, some days our pads and what they call thud, but
not full contact. So but you're right, I mean, you're going to limit it as much as you can, because, especially now with the college football season, if you're having a good season, you're not playing twelve games, you're not playing thirteen games. You might be playing fourteen, fifteen or sixteen games, which is pretty darn close to an NFL season. Now, the good news is you've got two by weeks or
in carry you'll have in that neighborhood. So but I think the approach is now be very meticulous and very intentional with the days that you have where you go hard, but otherwise save these guys' bodies because the season is, as you said, long and tough and physical and violent. So I think you're seeing, you know, the old days of going off into the desert and doing two and three days and really pushing these guys that way. These
guys come in in such great shape. Now you don't have to condition them anymore because they're already in conditioning, in shape. You know, you're worried about the long term now and not the physicality. But Utah is still going to run a physical camp. So it's not they're not going to shy completely away from it, but it's it's certainly been dialed back from where it was probably even five years ago.
Let me ask you about another coach, because Kyle Big twelve Media Days was asked about you know, every time you pull up a Utah football preview or you listen to a podcast where somebody's talking you tough football, the first thing they talked about is the old line, of course, with Spencer Fano and Caleb Lomu potential well for Spencer, according to Dan brugl Or, a top five prospect in pro football, Caleb a first round and then a bunch of experience around them, and Kyle dig twelve Media Day
said Jim Harden is the best offensive line coach in the country. I don't know Jim well, I've interviewed him once or twice, but obviously this man is a master of his craft and probably should receive more attention than he does. What sort of information do you have about Jim as a person as a coach.
What makes him so good at what he does well.
He doesn't like a lot of attention, so he's not one of these guys that loves to go out and do interviews. We had a great when the Harding podcast comes around. It's really good. He's got a great personality. Here's what I know. He connects with his player Spence and the offensive lineman love him. The guys that have played for him going back now he's entering is this is weird. But this is his twelfth season at Utah and he came with Dave Christiansen when Christiensen came from
Wyoming and he stayed. And I think he's had some other opportunities to go, but I think he likes working in this program and he's got a great track record. I think his secret sauce is one. He was a very good offensive lineman himself. He was an All MAC player at Toledo back in the day. But he's he's a guy that really connects with his kids. And he's also got a good assistant. He's got a good staff with him. Isaac Asciana for a second time is back on this offensive line.
Coaching staff.
So I think it's the fact that he knows that position inside now because he played it. But I think his ability to develop and connect with these kids really has them dialed in. If you look at it, you know, Utah has had some turnover, like all schools do, lots of positions over the last couple of years with the
advent of the portal. The one place you really haven't seen Utah have any turnover has been on the offensive line, and they've got some really dear deep So there are some guys that could potentially go elsewhere, but they've stayed. And I think a lot of that has to do with the relationship with Jim Harvin, and.
It is such a key to what we could see this year.
And one of the other things Kyle said when he sat down with Sean and I and he wasn't disparaging anybody, but he asked him about Devon because of course everyone's curious about the quarterback. And he said during his film study, he basically noticed that Devin was making plays happened last year by himself. I think he called them a one man band with not a ton of playmakers around him.
Some decent running backs and wideouts and such, but an offensive line that was not on par with what Utah has, and there aren't many lines in the country that are on par with what Utah has. How do you think that dynamic can potentially unlock Devin as he is taking an undeniable step up in competition week in and week out.
Well, I think his athleticism translates. But to that point, he was kind of a one man band last year. He didn't have great offensive line play. He made a lot of plays on his own with his legs and his arms, you know, outside of what they call, you know, the pocket and outside of the out of the rhythm of the play. I don't think he's going to have to do that as much this year. I think because of that offensive line and because of some of the stuff that he's got around him, that will be better
than what he had at New Mexico. And factor in, it's his second year in this offense, and he's with his coordinator again, and he's got a running back that he's familiar with and a wide receiver in Ryan Davis he's familiar with. I think that's going to help him a great deal. Spence, I don't think he's going to feel like he has to be Superman on every play,
and you know, in fact, I think you all. I asked Jason Beck this when one of our conversations this offseason, I said, do you have to kind of coach that mentality out of Devon? He's like no, because he's a super high IQ guy. Devin has got a really good read on what the situation and what the room is. He did it a year ago. He also made plays with his teammates, but he knows what he has and
what he doesn't have. And that's one of the things they like a lot about Devin Dampier is his malleability and his ability to adjust to his kind of surrounding environment. And I think the stuff that's going to surround him, especially in front of him this year, is going to be really really.
Good, interesting dynamic. Let me follow up because I'm always fascinated with this. It's the conversation we had about Cameron, like, is there any way coach lud can teach him to get down? You don't need to run into that gatorade cooler, Palell, we need you under center. And I felt like when Taysom Hill was by 's QB prior to every season we'd have the same conversation like he he's so electric, he's so dynamic, but it's so dangerous and he's so important.
So when it comes to that line with Devin, I'm sure you fans with our PTSD, every time he breaks the pocket and takes a hit, he's going to be like, dude, get down, we need Like how do you balance that bill like letting a player be who he is but also ingrain in him. You are too important to take crazy risks every play.
It's funny. I asked Jason Beck about that too. He's not as big as Cam Rising was. He's about six one two oh five two ten. Cam was six two two twenty five. And you mentioned Taysom Hill. Taysom's a big dude. Heck, he played tight end for a while as well as court. Devn's not that big, And Jason said, the one thing Devin is really smart about doing is
getting at a bounds. If you watch a lot of the plays that he made in the spring, but also last year at New Mexico, he'd pick up seven, eight, nine, ten yards and then he'd popped himself out of bounds. You know, he knew what he had and then he got down or he got out of bounds. So his mentality is not quite the same as a Taysom or even a Cam who had that mentality of I'm going to take that safety or take that line back or on.
So I you know, you're not going to ever get that running ability because that's part of his secret sauce. That's one of his superpowers is running the football, but he runs it in a different way. Cam Rising was a quarterback running the football. Taysom Hill was, gosh, a gigantic athlete running the football. You know, Devin Dan appears a smaller guy, and I think he's got the instinct to know that, you know, seven yards is a great play.
Let's get out of bounds or get data. Live to play another day.
We had Chase Hanson in studio this week for about forty five minutes.
It was great.
He is a very thoughtful, intelligent, nuanced young man who has a bunch of different interests outside of football now that he's retired that he's kind of pursuing. And I asked him about the anatomy of a position switch. Chase
was an incredible quarterback in high school. Was pretty blunt about his desire to play the position and stubborn in a way, and ultimately conversations with coach Witt and coach Scally, and also Chase's desire to get on the field because he was behind a couple of different quarterbacks led him to becoming an All Conference linebacker. And I don't have built data that puts Utah's decision making process next to
other coaching staffs. Like to compare Utah coach with Morgan that staff and their ability to see athletes and then identify different positions for them to play. It feels like they're elite at it. I don't have data to measure them against other programs. But when it comes to that sort of dynamic, and you know Nate Orchard wide receiver Highland High School, elite past past Rusher, the Krueger's, we could keep going.
What goes into that?
And why do you think Utahs staff seems to be so elite at that dynamic?
That's a good question.
I've asked Kyle that before and they have always been really good. And it goes back to Kyle. Kyle's a common theme here, but guys like Scally and Shaw and others when they recruit these guys, they go out looking a lot of times at athletes and what you are, and once they like your athleticism, you know, like Devin
Lloyd was a perfect example. Devin Lloyd was a wide receiver and a safety in a punter, but they saw that, you know what, They're very good at projecting and seeing potential growth, and they just liked him and they said, we'll figure out who you are when we get you here. And then when they get you here, you know, they put you in with everybody else. Now. You know, we always joke that if you're an elite athlete and there's any question whatsoever, Kyle's going to move you to the
defensive side of the football. And that's been the case, but then in recent years we've seen him kind of go the other way with that. Sioni Vaki was one of those guys. Now some of that was out of necessity a few years ago, but he was just too good an athlete not to use him everywhere. And I think that's why they're talking about guys like Smith, Snowden and Lander Barton playing some roles on offense this year.
I mean, Kyle said that himself done ad been called Media Day I don't know how big a role that will be, but I think when you have elite athleticism, you want to go out and you utilize those guys. That also helps you back when you go back on the recruiting trail, because you know when you're when you're recruiting guys, all these guys think that they can be two way players or they want to play this spot in maybe this spot. Well, if you have a little bit of proof, Hey, we did this with Ceony Vaki,
he's now in the NFL. We did this with Smith's note in lander Barton that then it's easier to maybe sell a kate on coming and then once you get them here, they can realize whether they fit both ways or one way or not. But back to the very very beginning of it, it's just that ability and having
the track record of doing it. Remember Paul Krueger. Paul Krueger came here, and you know, I think Paul might have been a quarterback in high school, and then I think he was a tight end and then I think they moved into defensive end and he had like an eight or nine year NFL career. So it's it's it's
just one of those things. You know, very successful coaches, they all have something that they do very very well, and I think developing talent but also identifying athletics and talent has been one of the great secret sauces for Kyle and his staff.
All Right, else, before I say you loose, back to the quarterbacks real quick. How's the room shaping up behind Devin? Is it Isaac's job? I've heard a lot of people talk about the Bird Fickland.
Kid quite a bit.
We all want Devin to stay healthy, but we all again ptsd about the starting quarterback not being able to stay on the field. So behind Devin, how's that room shaping up? Before I set you loose?
Well, I think that you know, going into fall camp, I think Kyle said even coming out of spring, Bird Ficklin had a really good spring. But the one bit of difference is it wasn't great time. Obviously, Isaac struggled last year, but he was a true freshman and was thrown into a really tough situation. But he started nine games last year. I think it was nine games, maybe it was eight games. But that so that give to me in my mind, that gives him an advantage over
Bird Ficklin, who's an eighteen year old true freshman. Now that being it's gonna be one of the interesting battles to watch in fall camp because bird Fickland had a really good spring. If he follows that really good spring up with a good fall camp, it will be interesting
to see what they do. But I would say, even while it's close, I think Isaac just based on the experience and his age, you know, not that much older, but still older by a year and a half in Bird Fickland, that he's probably got a little bit of
an advantage. But I think it's going to be a really interesting battle to watch, you know, because you know Dan Piers are starting quarterback, but how do they divvy those reps up and who has a good fall camp behind Devin, Because as you said, and as Utah fans know, it's hard. It's been hard in recent years to get a quarterback to play twelve or thirteen games. So the backup quarterback better be ready to go just in case.
Roles, you're the man, appreciate the time. On Wednesday, I have a great rest of the week. Happy pioneer, Dave Bud We'll chat soon.
Thanks man, talk to you soon.
All right, Bill Riley, Voice of the Youth.
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Four two four dishes eight oh one four two four three four seven four.
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Porter or well John Great Bump for our next guest, because he's known for a lot things, but in my mind he'll always be the little white dude that went to West Hide that could actually spit Bars Reespec Associate Professor. He's joined the show before the City University of New York local legend. But again, Rache'll always be the little MC that blew me away when I watched.
His spit back in the day. How are you, man?
Oh, I'm good.
It's so funny you say that. Not a lot of people know that background.
No, I'm telling you because I have this.
I still have this running bit with my friends that went to West to think they're thugs and gangsters.
I'm like, stop it.
You grew up in Federal Heights, Matt Harvey, calm down, Yeah, you know. And so when I got the invite, like, no o, our buddies from West actually rap, We're gonna go listen, I was ready to bury you. I was because you know, my East Coast kid, I love hip hop like you. I'm like, there's no way this is any good. And then you it was Brendan right was Kla Kwame? Blown away and bummed that you.
Actually you guys actually stopped if I'm honest.
Yeah, I mean, look, I was a huge fan of hip hop, student of hip hop. You love something so much you want to do it eventually, and that's just kind of natural. But you know, in retrospect, being this forty four year old white guy, it's kind of cringe to look back at it.
It wasn't you know?
You guys were good.
Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
Do you ever ever do you ever crack of mic anymore at all? No, just to speak in front of people.
No.
I do my.
Bars in writing op eds. Now, That's where I get my bars out.
Now, Okay, well, you're very good at this too, because you have a very fascinating mind. You've joined the show on multiple occasions. You have your father and studio, huge fan. I love having Pops here, but we're not gonna let him on the mic, you've told me. But it's great
to have him here. Yeah, So I'll let you kind of unpack what you've been working on lately as far as the Fox populism stuff, and we're gonna talk Trump UFC and you're the guy for this, and you know this is a sports talk radio show.
There are sports angles.
But I'm fascinated at the work that you've done because I have these ideas in my mind about you know, bias media for profit news, how it's adversely affecting our society and how it co opts the minds of people that some should know better and some just don't have the inelect to handle it. But unpack kind of the work that you've been doing over the past few years, then we'll kind of get into it.
Yeah.
So my first book, Fox Populism, was really about the moment in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine with the financial crash, the rise of Obama, and in that media landscape, it was really cable news was the center of it, right, it was driving the narratives.
But by the time we get to the Trump era, we get to twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, the media landscape had shifted radically and people started cutting the cable cord and going to alternative media in online video, namely YouTube, which is kind of really you can look at YouTube as the scaffolding of the Internet, video, audio, scaffolding of the Internet.
It's everything, right, and that's.
When you really saw that old legacy media lose its grip on where the culture was, where politics was. And one thing that Trump did very wisely was reach out to the alternative media space with Alex Jones.
He did an interview in December twenty fifteen.
Everyone mocked him because this guy's a conspiracy theorist, he has no credibility. But they were not They were overestimating the influence of the legacy media, and they were not aware of the rising power of podcasting, of online video.
And Trump really tapped into that.
And now fast forward a decade, you know, to the twenty twenty four election. He really wielded that sector with the pot bro podcasting sphere to great effect, and he won over you know, in this country, we're still polarized. There's only we're like a forty five forty five country Republican Democrat. So the name of the game, if you're going to win, it's very small slice of independence and people that are not into politics.
And that was young men. And he didn't.
I mean, the story of that election was not political the traditional political news or even podcasts focus on politics.
It was a.
Political media the nilk moys, YouTube pranksters, twitch streamers, Aiden rossc podcasts, the Undertaker's Part podcast ww and so it's ironic, let me get some feedback here.
While we're getting feedback, should we switch mic?
So you think we're okay, Okay, we'll come switch the mic out, but keep okay, So that's a little distracting.
Yeah, the irony here.
The interesting thing about twenty twenty four is that some of the most potent messengers for Trump were a political media. So like wrap your head around that, the political power of a political media. And this brings us to sports. You know, I'm interested in you know, media that is attracts people that are not into politics. They're they're not high you know, propensity voters, they're not all obsessed with politics.
Away.
A lot of lefties are hyper educated people are, but there's a problem there, as you mentioned, where in that way they have their guard down, right, and so people can go on there and do puff piece conversations and never get questioned the way a traditional journalist would challenge Trump. He would just hang out with him and talk about, you know, when he was a baseball player, you know, and how Baron's gonna kill it in the dating scene
in New York City, you know. So there's benefits in this long form format, informal kind of style, but there's dangers to it as well when politicians start leveraging it and manipulating it.
Porter, let's get you in here to switch out these mics so we can avoid the feedback. Respec is our guest, live in studio, local legend, Associate professor at the City of New York, author of Fox Populism. We'll get into because one of the things, in addition to the manisphere as it's called, do you know Scott Galloway is Yeah. So I listened to a lot of Scott stuff. I listened to his Pivot pod, I listened to his prof g pod, and he has been on this thing now
for about a decade. That the loneliness that young men suffer has led them to become very vulnerable to again, I'll use the term have their thoughts co opted by bad actors, the andrew Tates of the world right, who represent a a A A front facing type of masculinity I think is very damaging, quite frankly.
But if you're a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen.
Year old guy that you know you're skinny, you want to gain weight, you don't have friends in high school, the girls don't look at you. And you see this six' four jack dude who's throwing one hundred dollars bills all over his hotel room with five different women and you're gonna be, Like, okay what's that all? About the problem is that does lead to again bad actors DID i think have horrible intentions that are just trying to monetize the loneliness of. Men And galloway talks about this
all the. Time so how intentional was this approach From trump to do The rogan, thing do The manisphere pod, thing The Theo vonne, Thing and what would you say about WHAT i perceived to be the tone deaf approach to the left to not even acknowledge that it was a. Thing they didn't even try to get on these, platforms AND i think it really cost.
Them, yeah the loneliness.
THING i think there's This african proverb where it, says if you don't incorporate the young men into the, tribe they'll come back and burn the whole tribe.
Down. Right so if you.
Allow, them if you don't speak to, them and you don't try to get them to kind of adopt what we would see as healthy standards of masculinity social behavior instead of asocial behavior or anti social, behavior someone else is going to fill that. Vacuum someone else is going
to speak to them if you're not speaking to. Them and SO i, think you, know the left had this moment in the twenty tens with The Me too, movement with The Woman's, march where there was a rightful acknowledgment of you, know sexual predators And hollywood and politics and, industry and they were right to focus on. That BUT i think you can chew bubblegum and walk at the same. Time you can focus on sexual, harassment you, know gender, inequalities but you have.
To also still speak to young.
Men and the funny thing is is the person that was speaking to young men Was Bernie. Sanders and guess who Had Bernie sanders on his? Podcast Joe rogan and guess who said he was A Bernie sanders.
Fan Joe, Rogan and what did he?
Do they bashed him severely right right, now they're, complaining you know about or talking about the left needs the.
Are On Joe.
Rogan, well the left had there On Joe. Rogan it Was Joe.
Rogan, yeah, right and you guys stigmatized, him bashed in because he's got muscles and he likes, fighting and there's some elements of his embodied identity that look like a meathead or a, jock and then you demonize.
That you, know they Slurred Bernie sanders supporters As bernie.
BROS i, remember like that was the. Slur SO i, MEAN i guess that's my. Problem it's, like you, know you can critique element toxic, masculinity elements of, masculinity or people Like Andrew, tate, right, sure, right but you have to provide an. Alternative and that's what what's the NAME nyu professor that.
You Like, galley that's what he's arguing.
For you have to be a, proactive assertive definition for. Them you can't just say this is. Bad don't be Like, trump don't be Like Andrew. Tate you have to give them something and uh substitute for.
That.
Right, SO i mean that's the WAY i kind of look at that the bro podcasting. SPHERE i think in terms of the, strategy it was brilliant because they did the.
Math they, go who are the movable.
Voters they're not middle aged, People they're they're not these voters in the. SUBURBS i, mean The Kamala harris campaign had this fanciful idea they're going to Turn republicans Into, democrats, right and they always go for, that, Fools Go Chuck schumer for every you, know working class. Vote we lose In, Philly we'll make up in the. Suburbs right With republicans failed,
completely got More republican, votes not less. Right and what they could have focused on was these weak, partisans people that are, independence people that are not really Into they don't live in politics every, day and they tend to not have college, degrees and they tend to like alternative,
media a political. Media and that's What trump's zeroed in on completely like a. Laser they went on all these a political media shows and, lifestyle, fitness, golfing, influencers you name, it and one over that.
Demographic it was.
Insane the swing from twenty eighteen thirty two point. Swing democrats used to have an advantage with young men and they were comparable to young.
Women they were both progressive.
Constituents fast forward less than ten years, later he wins them by nineteen, points like titanic. Shift, yeah, right and how could you not see that media strategy was a huge part of that.
Swing it was really fascinating to watch the momentum. SHIFT i think When trump left The White house after his first, term everybody Including republicans were, like all, right we made it through, that and that's never happening. Again and then WHAT i perceived to be again so many tone deaf approaches from the, left and you know, what, MAN i know this isn't going to be. POPULAR i just don't
think people like identity. Politics, well some people, do BUT i think the majority of the country has spoken like because you reference some of the criticisms that the left would levy on toxic, masculinity and you articulated it perfectly about some of the things that are valid and should always be, spoken to speak truth to power and make sure that certain people are no longer a part of our. Society like there was a Culture hollywood elsewhere that.
Needed to be vetted and needed to be.
Removed but there was kind of like this over correction from the left in response to the rise of The Trump maga, party and then suddenly everything was about identity, politics and everything was about skin, color and everything was about. Misogyny and people like me that do this for a living are approaching a microphone every. Day it's, LIKE i HOPE i don't say the one wrong thing to piss off the left to come call from my job people
don't want to live that. Way so it was like this combination of an intelligent approach From trump and his people to capitalize on this ecosystem and an extremely tone deaf approach from the left that to me basically laid out the red carpet to Put trump back in The White.
House.
YEAH i think that the issue with the left is that they're anchored to the college educated and that's the culture that their whole movement is built. Around at the center of and hyper educated people that are like me in the, media, journalists tech, people. Lawyers they obsess about
language because that's what they. Do they're language. Manipulators they're always obsessed with languge and what they assume is that everyone else is obsessed with, language and they put as much stock in that as they, do and they don't. Work can class people see things more, Contextual they give people more good faith, interpretations, right they'd see it as, like what are your? Intentions and so it really rubs a lot of people the wrong, way including people of.
COLOR i Mean trump Won hispanic, men he won more black, men, Right it's not just white guys that are alienated by this hyper, educated politically correct, culture and it does the.
Opposite it's, like if you're.
About anti racism and you believe in that cause you, know you can't come across as an elitist that condescends to, people.
Right, Yes it'd be.
One thing if the person telling me that is in a labor movement and they're a union guy and they're, saying you can't be racist to our brothers and, sisters we need to unite so we can get better wages and things like. That but when it's coming from hyper, educated kind of egghead, people you've turned anti racism into a badge of your. Elitism you've turned critiquing sexism as something that comes across to a lot of people is intellectual. Condescension AND i think that's a huge. PART i think
those issues, matter but it's like how you do. It Like Jesse jackson was An African american politician The Rainbow, coalition but that was a working class campaign when he, ran and he talked about issues of race and, gender but it didn't come across as. Elitist it came across as, populous Right, So AND i think That democrats have learned in the wake of yet Another trump, defeat is that you can see them toning it, down and they're focusing more on bread and butter issues that the issue of.
Affordability it's more.
Of economic populism message That bernie innovated in twenty. SIXTEEN i think they've kind of learned their lesson on at least thinking about that tone and obsessing about those divisions and a particularly there's a way to talk about it that doesn't reek of college campus culture one hundred.
Percent and, LOOK i am well aware that a lot of these narratives have been pushed into mainstream society by WHAT i perceive the right wing politics in a way that is a little bit. Irresponsible anyone really believe that men should be able to play against women in? Sport like does anyone really believe that a man should be able to get into A ufc.
Ring with a woman the same? Way no one really believes.
That but one or two instances of trans people playing sports in women's ecosystem suddenly turns into this is a pandemic that is coming for your kids at school when you drop them, Off and it's Not any decent person knows.
That but when the left gives the right.
Any sort of bait or any small excuse to even create one little narrative about one or two Instances Steve bannon talks about this muddy the, waters confuse the, people flood the, zone and then suddenly most people are, like you know, What i'm JUST i just want to go.
HOME i don't care about this. Anymore SO i just think that was a massive.
Misstep and, yes there are so many bad actors and so many lies propagated and furthered by the, right BUT i just feel like the left delivers them on a plate because the issues that they lean into over and over and over don't rest.
With enough people to get them. ELECTED i, mean is that fair to?
Say the majority of this country are non college, educated working, class, Right so you're not going to win in democracy when you're only catering to a small segment of hyper.
Educated the middle class.
People.
PERIOD i don't know where they The, democrats how they haven't got that. Memo but yet they just keep making the same mistake over and over again on who their media targets and pills, to who their political campaigns appealed. To it's a what they mistake a narrow group for a much larger, group and that's where they keep losing, right you know you but it's also there's there's part of it is. Corruption part of it is both parties are bought and paid for by special interests and, corporations you.
Know you, Know Kamala harris had in the beginning of her campaign a more of an economic populist message to go after corporations for price, gouging and then someone chirped in her ear and she backed away from. That and it's like that's when she had her highest approval, rating When Tim wolls was saying, that and they backed away from, it and they started doing this millie mouth milk toast no confrontation with corporate.
Power and then.
So in the lieu of, that young men, say who's the anti war, Candidate who's the anti corporate power? Candidate it seems like the right is they're the ones that seem like they're going to do something to take on the elite and the.
Powerful, yeah.
Right and so as long as the, donors i Mean democrats keep getting that same donor, money you, know it's hard for them to truly be, populous like in a sincere.
Way yeah, yeah, well well said you.
Know the other interesting angle that The trump administration took is leaning into and this is similar to the manisphere of podcast The BROPODS ufc. Football you, Know trump really does use And Shane gellis Hosted The SP's it was. Hilarious he doesn't know anything about, Football he doesn't know
anything about. Sports he doesn't know anything about, anything if we want to get down to it outside of, media media, manipulation and obviously a master at selling his, message whether it's true or, not people into.
It so it is what it.
Is BUT i played in a golf tournament last week and it was A utah alumni golf tournament and it was for the fraternity house raised a bunch of money and there were fraternity students flown in from all around the country based off of their philanthropic.
Efforts they'd raised a bunch of.
Money so we HAD usc, kids we Had arizona, kids we Had utah. Kids trump pats, everywhere college, Kids trump pats everywhere you turn on A ufc, event you Know trump is. There oftentimes he's talking about A ufc event
at The White. House and you, know football is a little bit of a different cultural approach than basketball, Is like THE nba is a very different kind of cultural Approaches trump is now, claiming AND i think a lot of this is muddy in the waters and distracting from some things that are going on with him right now that aren't a great look that will probably not talk about on this. Show but he's talking about blocking The washington football team stadium deal unless they go back to
the Name. Redskins they're not going to do, that and nor does he give a rip about.
It we know what he's doing if you pay.
Attention but what do you make about that angle that he's, taken the sports, angle THE ufc, bros the football people that clearly have his back as far as voting.
GOES i, mean WHEN i knew The democrats were. Cooked the MOMENT i knew they were, cooked it was In september of twenty twenty. FOUR i was skating In San diego with my two, boys like we, do AND i saw This latino punk style teenager with a metal spike belt with The maga hat bouncing as he was on a.
Skateboard and he's, like if.
They got this, kid you, know The democrats are. Cooked so it's a similar, thing all these young men with mag hats.
On you.
KNOW i Think trump is very. Much he has a skill Of Pet, barnum, right the old circus. Promoter he doesn't get you to change what you, think but he dominates what everyone's talking, about, yes, right and that's its own, superpower. Right and so you, know and there's moments in political history where culture plays like a special.
Role.
Right so we came of age in The bush era in country. Music it wasn't. Sports it was country music that helped drive everyone to support that, invasion, Right Toby keith will put a boot up your.
Ass you're, good.
You, Know BUT i really think since twenty, sixteen sports has has been not, music but sports has been that a political sector that's had so much political.
Power you.
Know, uh the Segregationist alabama Governor George, wallace he used to plan his political rallies based on radio country music radio station demographic, data and he knew that he could turn this music fandom into a political. Constituency trump relies that with THE, ufc he basically took something that was a political that was you, know very much adored by young men of all, ethnicities, right and he has masterfully turned it into like a militant base of his political.
Army you, know having that relationship With Dana, white and we can talk about talk about, that which neatly also folds Into rogan and The rogan. Verse so it's Like Dana, white these these three, connections you, Know AND i think THAT ufc has, been at least in the last couple of, years at the center of our culture in terms of like the political zeitgeist and what's driving. It and all the fighters are hardcore magas. Sport you, know they win their,
Championship John jones, wins it Gives trump the. BELT i, mean all of them shaking his. Hand they have a camera that zero's in On trump every time that there's a decision or conclusion of a.
Fight i've never seen anything like.
IT i would ask any political presidential historian show me another president that has used sports in a way this, intimately in this systematically Than trump has used THE. UFC i, mean how many events has he attended pre and post? ELECTION i mean it's like every single, event it's. Both and you, Know Bill burr made a joke about. This he's, LIKE i came to watch the fight and THIS i find. Out i'm in THE rnc. Convention and it's ironic that
in the twenty. Sixteen it Was republicans that were complaining about sports and. Politics it Was, Kaepernick it was The Black Lives matter and THE nba And lebron and all. That you, know the versus the mirror image of that has, happened and they've alienated a lot of Like democrats or independents because it is so it's so explicitly used as a political vehicle For trump at this point THE.
Ufc, yeah, yeah and to his, CREDIT i, mean masterfully is the right way to put, it because that's how he's gone about. It you reference earlier a lot of people cutting the cord right and watching YouTube videos or listening to. PODCASTS i don't know what the numbers, are but obviously some interesting news recently As trump is Suing Rupert murdoch just steeped in irony here as the guy who wrote the book Now Rupert murdoch of Course Fox,
news but Also Wall Street. Journal this man has literally been kicked out of other countries for his black, magic which he is enacting on us with no. Repercussions Rupert murdoch feels like a big whale For trump to take. On, now, Obviously trump is the most powerful man in the world being the president of the. Country BUT i thought about you WHEN i saw that. Story what do you make Of trump going After Rupert.
Murdoch it's so, ironic you, KNOW i, Mean Rupert murdoch kickstarted this combination of political populism and tabloid journalism in his, country And trump embodies That fox's brand was this, tabloid populous partisan. Brand and Then trump really comes along and is like no one's ever embodied that brand more Than. Trump but, ironically you, Know murdoch didn't Want trump in THE i mean the twenty Fifteen republican primary roder. Ails THE ceo didn't Want. Trump they were so used to being.
Kingmakers fox dominated The republican. Party you, know there was this there was some activists or political operativests that we used to Think Fox news worked for, us and now we realize that we worked For Fox, news like you had to be a contributor or.
Whatever And trump had a feud with.
Them he boycotted one of The Fox news, debates which would be unheard of for any other republic Average. Republican but he wielded both his existing celebrity and this alternative media, relationship and that was the first cracks in that old media system that should have that should have been a signal to a lot of people That murdoch and this old legacy media don't have the power that they used. To and that Was, breitbart that Was, bannon that Was Alex.
Jones uh and then you, know now you fast forward today these old cable news. OUTLETS i, Mean fox is still, Profitable fox.
Is still number.
ONE i would never Write fox's. Tombstone people do it prematurely all the, time, never never Underestimate.
Fox but they are seeing.
The riding on the wall that cable cable's influence is, declining even the Mighty Fox. News and the fact That trump will go to war with the most, powerful powerful conservative media baron in the world tells you something about like but then, Again trump's just so confident in. Cocky, sure who, knows but BUT i don't think he you,
know it's very. Interesting but and also to See Fox news Back trump because they're so, scared because that is so much linked to their, audience where The Wall Street journal is more, highbrow more you, know there could be Never trumpers at Like Wall Street. Journal and so The murdoch empires really, complicated, Right you have The New York, posts tabloid, paper you Have Fox, news you have prestige brands like you, know The Wall Street.
Journal so who.
Knows it's Like King kong going Against, GUERRILLA i Mean King kong going Against. Godzilla, yeah you, know it would be really interesting to see how it plays. OUT i think it's a hollow. Threat he's not gonna win the. LAWSUIT i don't Think murdock will back down the WAY cbs.
Did, no it's.
Disgraceful he doesn't scare. Easily, no and he's gonna be dead. Soon so you, know you'll go down.
Fighting.
YEAH i don't.
Know we'll, see but you, KNOW cbs back, DOWN abc back. Down and he's scared those, companies you, know threatened to not allow, mergers and he's using the government as a cudgel to kind of dictate media trends and instill a chilling effect so people, sensor self censor and.
Stuff so that's very worrying to.
Me politics, MAN i don't know who said it once upon a, time BUT i always go back to, It hollywood for ugly. People, yeah you, know politics, Man hollywood for.
Ugly Roger, STONE i Think Roger stone SAID i love.
It it's just perfect because it's all. Performative they're all, acting and it's both sides of the. Aisle but one more thing reason BEFORE i set you.
Loose you recently went over to THE uk to speak to some people over there as a result of the work that you've. Done how is our current political climate perceived? Abroad what's your experience like when you go speak in other.
Countries SO i gave a talk that was sponsored by THE Us embassy at The university Of Southern, denmark and it was a crowd of All danish, people and it was about, entertainment the entertainment quality Of american, politics exactly what you just kind of.
Reference AND i.
Showed, them to the horror of a lot of the diplomats that Are american in an audience Of danish, people a clip Of Donald trump Clotheslining vince, McMahon, right and you, know and you, Know trump was a full blown character in THE wwe like he was part of that. Universe and their eyes were just wide, open like The european mind can't wrap their head around like a lot of elements Of american. Politics and now that's different than THE uk because Again murdoch had his imprint, there right with
the Tabloid The, sun The news of The. WORLD i, mean he DOMINATES uk politics with the same kind of sensational tabloids partisan. Style so for them it's not as big of a culture shock as it is for kind of Northern. Europeans but there's still they still shake their. Head they still don't, understand you know how you know we could have this reality show person kind of dominate our politics for the last ten.
YEARS i mean the.
History books will showed this has been The trump.
Era this is has he has defined politics for the last ten, years and so you, KNOW i think that they don't quite. Understand, also they have a stronger public broadcasting culture, there so that kind of conditions and limits.
How tabloid it can. Get, yeah where we've always just been crass.
Commercial our media system has always been for, profit always been, advertising so we don't have that backstop to maybe greater standards would be less. Entertainmentized this especially happened With reagan
when he deregulated the communications And clinton followed. Through was a bipartisan thing and it just became off the races just about getting eyeballs and, listeners and it's all profit and, ratings and there's no commitment to you, know like the public interests or civic education because we don't have a strong public broadcasting sector in THE.
Us where do you get your? NEWS i, mean you're.
One i've always respected your ability to call out THE bs on both. Sides AND i just don't watch cable. News it's not on in my. House and that's all of. Them it's not Just fox AND, cnn IT'S. Msnbc i'll mix in a LITTLE bbc at, Times but where.
Do you get your? News you?
Know SO i get like just for like the quick like rundown of the news events of the. Day you, Know i'll go TO, mpr AND i know conservatives look AT mpr is super you, know leftists and, liberal but it's generally it has its. Bias, obviously all news has a, bias, Right no news is areology. Free but the show THAT i really like Is Breaking, points which is a YouTube show where you have a conservative And sagar And jetty and then you have A bernie kind of left person
And Crystal. Ball and WHAT i like about that show is they're both not cheerleaders for their partisan. Camps they challenge the leftists will challenge The Democratic, party and then the right wing host will challenge A Republican, party and in the middle of that discussion you get something that approximates a sincere analysis of what's true and what's, objective you, know WHERE i think the cable model is just we'll cheerlead for The, democrats we'll cheerlead for The Republican. Party
and SO i THINK i highly Recommend Breaking. Points there's a couple of these shows That i'd like to think of them as. Transpartisan they kind of have a left populace and a right populace and neither one is just cheerleading in like a hackneyed way that we've become accustomed to in this partisan media landscape we've suffered through for the last two.
Decades, yeah, man all, right where can people go get your?
Work so my latest piece was with The hill on THE, ufc and it is what is?
It?
Trump THE ufc in The New Cultural war is the title of that.
One if you want a more academic, ANALYSIS i have a brand new piece Called More Than money And, Algorithms the cultural roots Of trump's al media, strategy and that's In, Communication, culture And, critique