Wednesday afternoon, seven minutes past the hour or two o'clock, scorching hot day. Little cloud covered earlier, but the sun is shining here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah.
It's been a very summer like week.
It's about eighty eight degrees here right outside of our Broadway Media studios. But as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along for the ride. Spence Check, it's behind the mic, Porter Larsen beyond the glass today producing the program.
And booking the show.
Got a lot of good guests today to talk about a bunch of different things. A lot going on today on the program. It is game day in Pro basketball. Is the Oklahoma City Thunder will look to continue their momentum against the Indiana Pacers. The series moves to Indianapolis at Gainesbridge Fieldhouse. Deadlocked at one game apiece. OKC is a five point five point favorite to win tonight, and we'll talk about the game. We'll get you ready for
the game tonight. We'll bring on a couple of NBA guests talk about the dynamics that you could be looking for. Soll feel like Okasee is very much in control of this thing. But we'll see if the Indiana can ride the momentum of their home crowd first time. The finals have been in Indianapolis since the year twenty twenty five years since the Pacers have been in the finals. So it's a great crowd. They're annoying is all get out.
They're loud, but they will bring the noise tonight, so we'll see how that goes.
As it is game day in.
The world of the NBA, it will be the turn of the NHL to resume their final series of the year. Tomorrow is the Battle for Lord Stanley's Cup rolls on Oilers Panthers after the Panthers made a very emphatic statement in Game three, winning that one six to one, taking a two to one lead.
Of course, we.
Are high speed ahead to both the NBA and the NHL draft. Of local interests, we are looking at the Jazz at five and twenty one with a couple of second rounders, and the Utah Hockey Club stack with their draft capital as well, starting in the first round with a fourth overall pick. For mind, you will have great
coverage of the NBA Draft. We're gonna go late on June the twenty fifth and June the twenty sixth, after this radio show wraps up, we will have live coverage and reaction of the NBA Draft with Gordy Jason Richard Smith will be out and about on location. We'll let you know where we're at, so you guys can come hang out, stop by, say hello, grab some food, grab some drinks, see who the Jazz draft, and listen to Gordy and Smitty break it down.
So of local interest.
We're in that space of course, as June is upon us, RSL will be back in action on Saturday, after a little bit of a break, and it feels like a sneaky big match for RSL. It's late early for them. The season is more than halfway home, and they have been well, they've been atrocious, no other way to say that. So Saturday, seven thirty MLS season pass here in Salt Lake. RSL dot com is where you go for single game tickets. The Royals and Ali sett and early back in action
on Friday. Actually, Ali's with the US women's team. Diego Luna is with the US men's national team. Speaking speaking of the US men's national team, well, we are one year away from the World Cup with school be played in our region, and the US men's national team was embarrassed last night in a way that feels a little bit alarming, and we'll talk about it on the show. They allowed four goals, four goals in about twenty five minutes to Switzerland. And Switzerland's a good soccer country.
I'm not saying they're not.
And this is a roster for the US men's national team right now that's without probably four of their five best players in that range. The Gold Cup is this weekend. Switzerland four US nil and again four goals in about twenty three minutes of action.
The Gold Cup.
Gets going this weekend and a lot of the big name players from the US men's national team have elected to not participate.
Receiving a lot of criticism.
It allows Lexliy Lawless to go on TV with his red tie and try to make soccer Commentarry Graat again, it's always awkward when that happens. But we'll talk about the US men's national team situation and the WORL Cup coming up, and we'll do a little RSL and some Royals on the show too. Summer Radio includes little Soccer if you guys know that, and Summer Radio includes World
Championship Golf. Oakmont Country Club is where the world of golf finds themselves coming up starting tomorrow, and we'll talk about some of the interesting storylines. We do have some local reps, Preston Summer Hayes and Zach Blair. We're able to qualify the old fashion Way, which is tough to do, and Tony Fenaw of course, will be in the field. Scottie Scheffler historic favor quite frankly, and then Rory McElroy right behind him.
Tiger Woods.
A couple of interviews today talking about this track, Oakmont Country Club. It is one of golf's hardest courses and the conditions look just brutal. The roughest rumor to be over five and a half inches long, and the greens are rolling out on a fourteen or a fifteen. I can't even fathom how to keep a ball in the green if you're rolling out on a fourteen. So we've
got a really exciting weekend ahead. Of course, it is a Wednesday edition of the program, so you're halfway through that work week and you are one day closer to the weekend. A couple of interesting pieces of NBA news, according to Sham Sharonny the Celtics are willing to listen
to trade offers for Jalen Brown and Derek White. Kevin Durant's reps leaks some news that they're looking at a new home for KD and will the Jazz get involved in any of this movement that we are in for as it pertains to the off season in Pro basketball, the New York Knicks, and I got to say, even as somebody who grew up back there, spent my forum of years in the Northeast and grew to really love that team and grew to cheer for them and still do to this day, I love the fact that they've
had three doors shut in their face. The hubris of the Knicks, who for the first time in thirty years, are relevant, fire a great head coach, and believe that they can just get access to whoever they want. Minnesota said no to the potential of Chris Finch, the Houston Rocket said no to the potential of Emma Udoka, and the Dallas Maverick said absolutely not. You will not interview our coach Jason Kidd. So what that also says, by the way, is that Chris Finch, Emi Udoka and Jason
Kidd also had no interest. And we'll talk about this on the show how this dynamic works. But ultimately, to Cliff notes it the Knicks would contact Dallas, and Dallas would then go to their coach. And if Jason Kidd told Dallas Maverick ownership like, yes, I'm interested in the nick job.
If you're the owner of.
The Maps, You're like, well, then I don't want you coaching my team.
We'll figure something out.
The Knicks send us a protective first round pick or whatever it is. But this it's not just in my opinion, in my experience knowing how the stuff works. It's not just these three teams telling New York. No, it's those three coaches telling New York know as well. So we'll get into latest with the NBA off season and stuff. Aaron Rodgers spoke to the media after participating in Steelers Ota. It's good for the soul to play for Mike Tomlin, he said, good riddance off.
He's in college football.
We talked about some of the twenty twenty six Utah football commits.
They were now's yesterday.
Alex Jensen also finished his staff or excuse me, completed his roster, so we know what the running Utes men's basketball team will look like. We have some exciting news for Utah football fans as far as the recruits go. And we still kind of await more information now that the House Bncuba settlements across the finish line, what do those guidelines and guardrails look like with a new commission in place as the NCAA is kind of pushed out of the ecosystem of college football. So it's a jam
packed Wednesday edition of the program. And we'll start with our buddy Tom Haberstroke. Good day to have Tommy on the program. Tom Thefinder dot Com rights for Yahoo. He's been with the ESPN, NBC. You guys know, Tom joins US consistently. We'll do some NBA with Tom, more NBA with Zach Harper on the program, NBA Daily Assist. I will do some draft with Zach, some jazz with Zach as well. Then we'll preview Game three of the NBA
Finals tonight. Old buddy Brian don Seth Stopspot. Donny was on the pref postgame coverage for Turner Sports last night watching the US men's national team get embarrassed by Switzerland for zero So I want to bring Dunny on today to either calm our fears or stoke the flames. One year away from the World Cup which will be played in our region, and last night was a bad, bad look.
Neil Smith, our old buddy, former general manager of the New York Rangers who won a Stanley Cup as a roster constructor in pro hockey, joins us for his weekly visit to talk some Stanley Cup finals and some Utah Mammoth off season plans. Then the head coach of ourself, Pablo Maschjoenni is our guest later on. So Tom Haberstrow, Zach Harper, Brian Dunseth, Neil Smith, Pablo Mastejoenni, Jam Packed Wednesday, show Me, Spence checkets, all of you, the great listeners,
and that guy, that guy Porter Larson. You have to admit, even as a Nick fan, there's a little bit.
Of an irony.
And also this is an admission that we didn't have a plan after firing Tom Thibodeau, a great coach, that just because you're relevant for the first time in thirty years, you are not allowed to poaching coach you want.
Okay, I've kind of enjoyed this.
I mean, you mentioned it. It's the Hubris, it's the Knicks kind of mo maybe they got sick of being competent for a season and a half. That's what it kind of seems like, right, Like that's a little too boring for James dolanan co. You need drama, you need you know, you need some pressure. Yeah, I don't know, man. I told you when the day that Tips was fired. The only reason that I was on the fence about it was if the Knicks had their guy in mind
and ready to go on a hire. If they had no plan and you know, nothing in place to replace Tom Thibodeau, a guy who just went to an Eastern Conference finals for the first time in your franchise's history in two decades or so.
I mean, what are you doing?
What are you doing? You're you're dolaning.
I guess that's exactly what it is.
I talked about. This was good during crosstalk. The most important element of any organization. This isn't just sport, it's life. Who owns the team, who owns the company, who's running the show. You can either create a culture of healthy communication or one of chaos and decisions that are made in the moment, in emotion, impulsively, and that's who this idiot is, and that's who he's always been. It's really frustrating if you can't tell in a tone of my voice.
All right, our first guest right out of the gates will be Super Tom Habershrow. Before we get to Tom, courtesy of our good friends. You're good friends too at Prize Picks. It is time now for your opening tip.
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game this evening. So log on a Prize Picks, get your free money, use that free square, pick one other correctly. You can win up to two thousand times your cash. Where you can run your game all season long on Prize Picks all right. Game three NBA Finals tonight Oklahoma City, Indiana Pacer. This series goes to Indianapolis, where Gainsbridge Fieldhouse will be at the venue. Oklahoma City is a very healthy five point five point favorite to win this game.
I've been to Indiana for playoff basketball back in the day when the Knicks and the Pacers were playing consistently. This building will be chaotic, it will be loud, the crowd will be awesome, and Indiana is gonna need every bit of motivation and juice and energy from their home crowd that they can muster up because I continue to believe this is just an impossible task for them. And when you look at it, I mean, the bottom line
is this. The series is tied to one to one, and that's the bottom line, okay, But when you actually dig a little bit deeper, if you've been watching the matchups, Oklahoma City is dominated for about ninety of the ninety six minutes that this series has gone on, essentially Game one, Indiana did not have the lead until Halliburton's game winner. Now they won the game. You come on with a split,
you gotta feel good about that. But I'll tell you what, man, watching the players that torched the Knicks look completely average is giving me a couple of different takeaways. So Siakam was awesome against New York. Nie Smith turned into Dale Ellis back in the Seattle Sonic days. That's a little inside for some old school NBA fans. Andrew Nemhard was awesome,
Matherin was good, Obi Toppin. They're not getting much of anything from the role players that were great against New York, and we're really good against Cleveland and really good against Milwaukee. I mean, Indiana has had a really difficult challenge prior to this finals endeavor that they're undertaking with some really good teams. The Calves were awesome during the regular season,
and you know, they had some injuries. Darius Garland had to miss some time, and ultimately the Calves will probably tell you that if they were fully healthy, they felt good about those chances.
But Milwaukee was without Dame Lillard.
They still have Yianna Santeed to Cumbo, and that's a tough ask for a pacer team that nobody saw coming. And of course the Knicks were probably a little bit of had a schedule after beating the Boston Celtics, but everybody talked about Tyrese Halliburton throughout the course of the run, because all you saw in Sports Center were highlight of Halliburton's game winners, and.
He deserves a ton of credit for that.
To be able to be able to meet the moment in a way that maybe no player in the league right now has been able to do based off the data is very impressive. But now that they're back home and this is typically the deal, some of the younger players, like Annie Smith, like in nemhard, like a Matherin, like a Toppin, maybe like a Ben Shephard. I mean, even Thomas Bryant was hitting threes in the closes up came against the Knicks.
These guys are the players.
They really do have to step up if Indiana is going to stay in this series. Now they do start and end with their lead guard. Okay, and the narrative in conversation surrounding Tyree S. Halliburton during the course of this playoff run has been a little bit exhausting because, like, what does it mean to be a superstar.
Player in pro basketball?
There's so many intangibles there, There's so many ancillary things and it probably just depends on your personal point of view. I don't believe Tyree s. Halliburton is in the cul de sac with Nikola Jokic and Luka Dancic and SGA and in a healthy Lebron And you know, Stephen Curry deserves to be there.
Probably Kevin Durant does too.
So whatever your list looks like of obviously Giannis, whatever your list looks like of what I guess all characterize as a first taky Tier one NBA group, Tyres isn't in that group, but that's not breaking news.
But he is that guy to this team.
So when he has gone for more than twenty points throughout the course of the postseason, they're seven to one. Like you can really draw a straight line between Halliburton's production and the Pacers' success in a way that's really obvious.
But here's the issue.
When you look at what Oklahoma City has done throughout the course of their playoff run, they turned Aunt Edwards Water off completely, and prior to that, in the Denver series, Jamal Murray could find zero space. Like Jokic had a great but Jokic will have a great series against anybody.
You can't stop that, dude.
Okay, the reason Denver won a championship a couple of years ago is they had playoff Jamal who had played in the postseason in a way that we had never seen before. And Michael Porter Junior actually showed a poltse on defense and tried to rebound, and Aaron Gordon evolved into this perfect role player to play alongside Jokich. They also had a different roster with Bruce Brown and Jeff Green.
Jokic is just like Shay in the matter of he's going to get his but the players around him, what are they going to do to kind of up the bottom line of what your team can be? And Jamal Murray could find no space against this Oklahoma City perimeter defensive group. Anthony Edwards, one of the bright up and coming superstars in pro basketball, could not find any space against this perimeter defending group.
Because if you're.
Gonna have success against OKAC, the best thing you can possibly do is to have a proficient big. They can actually score, rebound and cause some problems like if Mark Dagnault's going to go small with chet. Chet's an extremely skilled unicorm type player, but he's not strong.
You can push him around.
But the problem is they have Hartenstein coming off the bench, and you can play Hartenstein, and he's fine, he's a big that can actually guard. But if you're going to rely upon a dominant offensive either lead guard or wing against the team that has, first of all, Lou Dort, who probably should receive more credit for the type of defender he is, and I could just go down the list.
I mean Lou Dort, Alex Caruso, Jalen Williams, even Shay who's all of six to six, and Cason Wallace who's not very big but an absolute Gary Payton type pitbull on the ball, Your perimeter players are going to be in trouble. And I just don't think Halliburton has the ability to find things offensively individually against this group that we couldn't see from Jamal Murray or Anthony Edwards, who
individually are better offensive players than Tyree Saliburton. This has to be a scenario where Halliburton finds a way to get Siakam going a picking pops with Miles turn Maybe he can hit some threes. Can they resurrect the offensive production from Aaronie Smith and Andrew Nemhard and get something from Mather and her top And like I keep hearing all day, I've heard this like tonight's on Halliburt, Well, you haven't been watching.
Oklahoma City all year long.
Then they turn everybody's water off as it pertains to offensive initiators on the perimeter, either a wing or a lead guard. This has to be a collective effort from the group. From the Pacers tonight. The other takeaway is how atrocious the Knicks were defensively because these bit players that found success against the Knicks have been really unable to get any traction against a historically great Oklahoma City defensive team. So big game tonight. I took okac in
five to start the series. I feel like Indiana can get probably one at home. But I still think this series goes the way the Thunder and it feels more like six games than five. Brian Wilson, songwriter and lead singer the Beach Boys, died at the age of eighty two. My first concert of my life Beach Boys Paramount Theater, New York, I was I think eleven years old. Brian
Wilson was not with the group. In fact, I think it was only two of the founding members and in order to keep the audience attention, and they marched out like twelve scantily clad women in bikinis. My father was covering my eyes the whole time.
Yeah, it's cool.
It is the Beach Boys, I guess technically, But like I have friends that are my age that like, say, they've hit seen The Grateful Dead.
Yeah, yeah, does it count if Garry wasn't there?
And does it count seeing the Beach Boys that Brian Wilson was not present.
I'm not sure that it does.
Maybe a little more of my generation, but it's like sublime with the other guy.
Yeah, it's not the same.
I think Kevin Loves Uncle is in the band and he was there. I think it's Mike Love Anyway, nobody gives a rip. Tom Haberstrow Wednesday afternoon. All right, Tom, right off the top. First concert that you ever attended in your life?
Jack Johnson, Ben Harper at Central Park?
Very nice, very nice, very Northeast.
Loved that and they were I mean, what year was that, because that must have been when those two were just kind of at their peak.
I want to say it was like two thousand and something like that. I remember taking the train into New York with my buddies and just it was an incredible night and I don't think any of us, even if we didn't partake in anything, I don't think you'd come home from a concert.
Like that sober.
It's just in the air everywhere.
So that was an experience I would say with a Beach Boys, I always come back to the Beach Boys as maybe the greatest American band ever rock and roll as a genre. If you were to point to what is the greatest rock and roll band in American history, I think people might throw out Pearl Jam or Aerosmith or something of that caliber or genre. But I think the Beach Boys might have a stake to that claim. And I don't know if you guys had any thoughts on that.
Yeah, I don't know that you're wrong. I mean, my bias brain goes to DMB, but that's not a popular answer. I think Grateful Dead the Doors, Tom Petty Eagles, you reference Darrow Smith. If you want to go like hipster Howard Beck, you could talk r EM, but it might be the Beach Boys. Tom, you might be right about that. I don't know that I have much a problem with that.
Yeah, in terms of influence and the ingenuity of what they were doing, and I think it was kind of just I don't know innovation is the right word here, but the sound was unlike anything we'd heard, and so I think it is. It's been a tough week in music, and I would say Brian Wilson passing away, that's a tough one. But the old debate about what is the greatest American rock and roll band or band, I think Beach Boys deserves a spot in that conversation.
I think you're correct, and certainly on this day today, I will not push back. I know van Halen for some probably's in the conversation. I was never a big van Halen guy. But anyway, Tom, we can make our way of to a little basketball. We'll start with the finals. I do have a couple of jazz questions. We'll save
those for the end. You know, every game day in the finals, and certainly leading up to the game as well, when you listen to the debate shows or listen to NBA pods, you know, people on the pacer side of things will say, this is.
All about Halliburton.
You know, there's seven and one when he scores twenty or more points in the playoffs, and during those games he just scores twenty or more. He also averages around ten assists, And I want to be clear, I'm not saying it's not about Halliburton. It's just not about him entirely based off of the defensive perimeter prowess of OKAC. They shut down Jamal Murray, they shut down Anthony Edwards and Tom the players that torch the Knicks for the most part, have not been the same players over the
first two games in the NBA Finals. So let's start with Indiana's side and your opinion on Okay, is this all about Halliburton If he's aggressive early on, are they going to win it? Or do these other players need to look the way they look against looked against the Knicks.
Well, I think it starts with the OKC defenders. Alex Caruso caseon Wallace, lou Dort being the primary defender on Tyrese Haliburt has absolutely bitten the head off the snake. You look at what Dort has done this season, last season against Tyrese Haliburt. He is Halle Kryptonite. Hallie can't break free, he can't shake free on lou Dort on that final possession in Game one when he got down
the floor and Cason Wallace is guarding him. I said, it's going up and it's going in because where's lou Dort? The guy puts him in a straight jacket. Every time they go at each other, Tyre's Haliburn passes the ball up. He does not like going at lou Dort. And in this series, in two games with Dort guarding him or Alex Carusa guarding him, seventy one possessions seventy one possessions of basketball with those two guys guarding him, Tyreese Haliburton
has or two points. He's one for eight shooting. He has four assists to three turnovers. With Caruso and lou Dort, it is the biggest problem the Pacers have faced is this test against Okac's unbelievably good defenders. They can't get Tyree Taliburton going. And in this series he has a nineteen point nine usage rate that is league average. That is, like I look this up in usage right by the way for the listeners, that is what percentage of your
team's possessions are you using to try to score? And in this series, Shake goldsers Alexander is that thirty six thirty six percent of Okac's possessions are going to Shay Gildris Alexander for him trying to score. Tyry Taliburton is actually below average Naji Marshall. Naji Marshall for the Dallas Mavericks was at twenty percent this season. So what Lou Dort and Alex Russ Will have done in this series
is they've turned Tyree Taliburton into a role player. And that is the biggest problem here is that when you see the Indiana Pacers and that record that you talked about is seven to one, when he scores twenty or more, the assisted turnover ratio is outstanding. But in order for the Pacers to win this series, it is all about that score. It is all about getting to the free throw line. Which, by the way, how many free throw attempts has he had in this series so far in
two games zero? This guy needs to be an attack mode in game three. And this isn't just like yay points yay points per game like that's a very caveman looking at the at the score of basketball. But in this case, with the way that the defense is loading up on Tyre's Halliburton, he's got a break free because it is it is way too hard for the pacers to get good offense when halibur is playing in this passive mode where he has a nineteen percent usage rate,
which is below average. Forget about stars or superstars. I'm talking third or fourth options on good teams having this kind of scoring responsibility. He's got to have more and I just think that that is going to make a big difference for Indiana Game three, if Tyree Taliburn's attacking.
Okay, So I have a two part question for you. How do they make that happen? And do you think they can because I'm resigned to the point where I don't think Halliburton is going to have enough space based off of how you just articulated who Okase is defensively and watching what they've done to other perimeter ball dominant players,
either league guards or wings like Anthony Edwards. So I want you to let me know how Indiana can get him loose and do you think they can actually do it, because I'm kind of resigned to the fact that it has to be his teammates.
I'm not sure he can get loose.
Yeah, it is very apparent that this might be over in five games. Then he might not ever get loose like I'm in total agreement with you. But he has to compete. He has to make it tough on lou Dort. And when lou Dort has even a step behind Tyre's Halliburton and gets him off balanced, Hallie has to draw contact. He can't be afraid of drawing contact. And Halliburton I
at his best. He is a guy who is able to get into the teeth of the defense, gets you off your feet, and then getting to the free throw line, getting lou Dort in foul trouble. That's a tall order, but he has to be more aggressive in that way rather than just getting rid of the ball as soon as he sees that dude in his sight. The numbers are also really interesting when you look at Halliburton just
in general this postseason. When he's being guarded by a big say Isaiah Hartenstein, say Evan Mobley, say Jannis ended Akompo, his eyes get big. He loves going at those mismatches. In those scenarios. He's scoring fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when he's going when he's being defended by a big Okay, fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when it's a non big, a wing, a point guard
that goes from fifty seven points to seventeen. Okay, so the Thunder do not want to switch Ched Holmgren or Jalen Williams or Isaiah Hartenstein onto Tyres Taliburton. And in many ways they don't have to because that's how good their wing defenders are. Lou Dorp, Cason Wallace and Alex
Caruso shake Gildris. Alexander's in there too. But if they do switch and he does get that mismatch where he's able to get some sort of transaction where he gets going against a big, that might be their best option is to just figure out a way, whether it's in the pick and roll or attacking in transition or doing some some deceptive plays where they're faking in action and
getting into something else that draws in Hartenstein. But Halliburton is at his best when he gets off of lou Dort or Case and Wallace, ra Alis Caruso, And so maybe it's as simple as trying to attack the bigs in ways that he can do it in transition a lot easier than in the half court, but he has to draw fouls and he has to be more aggressive.
And your point about, look, it's the NBA Finals, and yes they're Oklahoma City is good defensively and this stuff is hard is well taken so like the greatest in the history of the game, And you know the narrative and conversation surrounding Halliburt and the whole like, well the players told the athletic he's overrated? Is he a superstar?
Like that stuff is exhausting to me. But your point stands like, if you do want to be considered somebody who sits at that lunch table, you have to figure it out against defenses that are that are designed schematically to stop you, because that doesn't you know that that does and stop the great historically you wanted titles. So do you think Halliburton personally is up for the challenge based of how you articulated that he simply just has to step up and compete.
Yeah, I think he's a lot like Chris Paul in that it's in his DNA to set the table for others rather than trying to hero ball his way out of this series.
One stet that I.
Found astounding when I was looking into this and Tyree Taliburton and his quote unquote passivity or his lack of usage rate. It's very similar to Chris Paul. Chris Paul All Time Great, incredibly good at maintaining possession and methodically breaking down the defense. Chris Paul in all his years, he only had two seasons of twenty point scoring and only one time did he shoot twenty five times in a playoff game. It's just not how he's built Chris Paul.
He's more interested in setting the table, getting improving his teammates, making sure his other teammates are getting involved, rather than going out and trying to get forty. And I think Tyree Tliburton is built the same way. They have that like them, Muggsy Bogues and John Stockton, they have like identical I assist to turnover ratios. They are very careful
with the ball and they rarely make mistakes. But I also think some of that is part and parcel to why he doesn't want to go out and play hero ball. He's not built like MJ. He's not built like Anthony Edwards. He's not built like Shake Gildris Alexander, and that's okay. Like Chris Paul All Time Great, one of the fifty best players, to ever lace them up John Stockton as well. I think he's more in that category rather than someone who's going to win an MVP or someone who's gonna win.
A finals MVP.
At this stage where he's just ripping the hearts out of the opponent for forty eight minutes. He can do it in the last two minutes of games this season, where it's a shot to go ahead or a shot to tie, He's shooting thirteen to fifteen from the floor.
But I think what's interesting about that stats. It's ridiculous, by the way, it's a ridiculous stat But I think the reason, part of the reason why he's able to be so efficient and so good in those Layton close situations this season is because he's not tiring himself out for the rest of the forty six minutes of the game. And you look at this series, he's just not as aggressive in the first two quarters. I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I don't think you can have one without
the other. I think it's interesting tyre'saliburn has been so good in clutch situations this year. I think part of that is because he's got enough gas left in the tank to do those plays when everyone else is run down and tired, And.
So I do think that there's a relationship there that.
Tyree's taliburn is as good as he is in clutch situations.
I don't think you're getting.
That prime Tyree t Halliburton, rip your heart out in the end endgame stage when he's going and trying to score every time down the floor in the first three quarters. So it's a delicate balance. And I think he's more Chris Paul than he is Shaye Gildsris Alexander And to me, he's got to have at least one if they're going to win this series, they've got to have at least one epic shake Gilders. I mean Tyrees Haliburton game where he's got thirty and fifteen. It's gonna take that against
this OKAC team. Like I think this is going to be over and five. I picked that in before the series. And if Haliburton wants to be a legend, legendary all time player like he has shown in the first three rounds, it's going to take another historic performance that isn't going to be just twelve or thirteen shots in the game.
Yeah, it's a couple of good points in there.
My favorite is the the parallel between Halliburton and SGA. That's that's not the correct line to draw here. It's those two against each other as far as you know who's going to go off and who's gonna lead their team. They lead their team in different ways. It's a false equivalency. They're different players. But if we move over to the Thunder, you know, it was funny because Game two I thought was just tremendously boring because it's what OKAC just does.
I mean, it's like death with a thousand paper cuts. It started out back and forth, the Pacers looked okay, and if you've been watching the Thunder all year long, it's just it's what they've done all year. And I harken back to what Chris Finch said after Oklahoma City eliminated the Timberwolves, when a media member and his postgame presser said, what did you learn about your team tonight?
And he said, nothing, because this is who we are.
I feel like this is just a mountain that's too tall for the Pacers to climb. But if you look at the moments of success they've had in this series, which even though it's one one. It hasn't been a lot of moments like ninety six minutes of play, ninety minutes or so have been dominated by the Thunder. But as they go back home, what do the Pacers do with what feels like kryptonite? If you try to sell out to stop shade. They've got plenty of shooters that
can knock down shots. How do they how do they corral this team that whin they're ticking?
They just feel so impossible, Tom, Yeah, you know you said it. This This OKAC team has led for basically the entire series, and it was an incredible shot making display at the end of Game one that they fought back and rallied and won that game in epic fashion. But to me, this Thunder team is designed to crush teams like the Indiana Pacers, where so much of their offense depends on Hollie and and themhard and they are so good at stopping ball dominant.
Guys guys who are.
You know they move the ball quite a bit.
But that's what OKAYC.
Does is they're just so ferocious defensively, They're Doberman's out there that I just if you're not gonna be able to pound them in the paint. They're not gonna be vulnerable, and it's gonna come down to Pascal Siakam and Miles Turner and Obi Toppin to try to free up the other guys and have multiple defenders collapse onto them in the paint, and then you can get kind of Tyrese going downhill on a hard close out and a kickout.
That might be their.
Option is to play inside out rather than inside in, but that's easier said than done. I think I said this before to you Spence. When you watch some Thunder play basketball, especially on defense, it feels like it's six on five. It feels like there's six guys out there. That's how well they cover ground and how well they close out and recover, help and recover and swarm. It doesn't seem right like I'm looking around, like are there six guys out there? And that's just how they play,
and so it's gonna be really challenging. But they gotta pound the paint, play inside out, and that's easier said than done.
All right, let's move over to a story.
And look, you know my background and upbringing, and I still very much cheer for the new York Knicks and have enjoyed the fact that they're relevant and somewhat fun again. But even in my Nick fandom, I have to chuckle at the Hubris where for the first time in thirty years, you're somewhat relevant. So your response to your relevance is to fire a really good coach and then believe that you can just interview anyone you want. Minnesota, Dallas, Houston
all said no, you are not allowed. So your take on this, and do you have any idea who they're going to land on to replace Tom Thibodeau.
Why couldn't they just keep TIBs and then bring in like a Terry Stotts, you know, like, if you're worried about his rigidity or his inability to sink outside the box, then I think you keep that guy and try to get an offensive coordinator in there to help you think more outside the box. Maybe Tibbs is so rigid that
he will not listen to that guy. But what it sounds like to me is that leon Rose and Dolan are not on the same page on this because leon Rose to me, seems like a Tibbs guy that from CIA and going back in the day, I think that they are they are aligned on this, and the fact that James Dolan, from Vinnie Goodwill's reporting at Yahoo's Sports and others, seems to be intervening here and meddling with this decision and not liking Tom Thibodeaux and being the
driver of this. This feels like the old Knicks.
Again.
The last few years have felt like.
This new regime.
Leon Rose is doing this very methodically and very sophisticated long term view. This feels like the old Knicks. And I don't mean that in a good way. This feels like to me, it's it feels very knee jerk. It feels very emotional, and it also reeks of arrogance that like the exceptionalism that you're imbuing on the rest of the NBA, that you're saying, you built this Minnesota team, I'm going to steal you away and post you because we're the Knicks. Or the same thing for Ema Adoka
and the same thing for Jason Kidd. Now, the Jason Kidd thing is really interesting to me because the reporting suggests that the interest is mutual, that Jason Kidd also wants to become a New York Nick. And when you don't allow Jason Kidd to get.
What he wants.
There's been a pattern here throughout his career, both player and coaching, that Jason Kidd will in the end get what he wants. And so that, to me, Spence, is really interesting, is if that is true that Jason Kidd wants to coach this team the New York Knicks and the Dallas Mavericks denied permission and said no you will, I'm not allowed to talk. What does Jason Kidd know? What can Jason Kidd do to make this a very uncomfortable situation for Nico Harrison and the incoming Cooper flag
and Patrick Dumont. And that's where this gets really messy and also soap opera palace intrigue, where you're looking at Jason Kidd and if he truly wants to become a New York Nick this circus has only begun. And I wonder what your thoughts are on that. Because Jason Kidd, what he did with the Brooklyn Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks, this seems like not the end of the story, but possibly just the beginning.
So interesting My read was potentially Jason Kidd does not want the nick job because I would imagine, and I don't know this, you could very very well be correct. Like if you're Patrick Dumont, if you're Nico Harrison, and the Knicks call you, it's Jim Dolan or Leon Rose or whatever, and they say, we'd like to interview your head coach. I guess would be they would talk to Jason and say, are you interested in this? And if he says that he is, I don't want you coaching
my team. So then I call Leon back and Dolan back, and I say, Okay, it's gonna cost your first rounder or whatever. So my read was kind of like, maybe they talked to Jason and the reporting is incorrect, he does not have interest in that job.
But honestly don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
I think it was Brian Winnhurst who reported that it's mutual interest between the two Jason Kidd and.
The New York Knicks. YEP.
Now what level that is, whether it rises if the interest in Jason Kidd supersedes his interest in the Dallas Maverick's job.
I don't know.
He might be interested in both. But the Jason Kidd's story is fascinating to Lawrence Frank in Brooklyn. The Prokovs and the way that he tried to go about Billy King in Brooklyn to try to build his personnel in a way that he wanted, and then they just said, we're done with this. You go to Milwaukee and we'll get a couple first rounders or second rounders.
Five.
I think Jason Kidd is in a very tough spot here because he's close with Kyrie, He's close with Jalen Brunson, He's close with Anthony Davis, and he's also close with the Dumont's family and with Nico Harrison. The loyal The loyalty seems to be with Dallas, but he's also got this Cooper Flag expectation coming in and I think that's a tricky thing for a head coach to deal with. Is an eighteen year old Cooper Flag entering a win
now situation with Anthony Davis? Can you do the David Robinson Tim Duncan in San Antonio If you don't have a full roster around, it's supporting cast. Kyrie Irving's not going to play next year or much of next year, and so I can understand why Jason Kidd might look at what Nico Harrison did with Lucan Dancic, and then what is going to happen here with Cooper Flag and just say, you know what, maybe maybe the nick job is a lot simpler, you know than what I'm going
to have to navigate here. So we'll see what happens with Jason Kidd. But I think I think Cooper Flag is the real deal. I think he's going to be outstanding, And for those reasons, I think Jason Kidd would be smart to stay and build around that guy. But what Niko Harrison has done to build a win now team and trade away Luka Dancic, it doesn't look like you can kind of slow play this thing. And if I'm Jason Kidd, that's gonna be a very tricky situation.
All right, Tom last thing before I said you lose over the past, I'll say four days. We have some reporting, including Sarah Todd because you're on the ground and works for the Desert Red News and covers the Jazz, Bill Simmons on his podcast, and then Zach Lowe has been the most recent to either write or say out loud. They've been told the Jazz are actively taking phone calls
on both Lowry Market and and Walker Kessler. So if we take Austin Ainge at his word that there will be no tanking or manipulating minutes this season, and they are now taking phone calls on who I perceive it to be honestly the only two good players on their roster right now, what does that tell you about what next year might look like in Salt Lake?
Yeah, I would say they're going to try to get younger around market in or moving market in and trying to get younger. But then Walker Kessler is one of the best young bigs in the NBA, So are you really going to move him for a younger piece when the guy just turned twenty three this year, so like he's turning twenty four in July. Maybe you try to move him for a twenty year old big or a twenty one year old big and just kind of move the timeline back a few years and you don't have
to pay a big extension and see that through. But I don't I don't know what moving Walker Kessler does for you. I don't know. Now if Cooper Flagg is coming down the pike and you're trying to figure out market in and flag and Walker Kessler, I can understand why you move one but not both of those guys. I don't I mean, I don't know what the move would be on Walker Kessler moving him. I can understand marketing.
There's a bunch of contenders that could see Marketing as a missing piece, as a floor space or a dynamic offensive driver.
But the Walker Kessler piece.
Doesn't make sense to me because he seems like a guy to help build around at twenty three years old, not someone that you're gonna move away to try to win now. It's just I don't see it, and it doesn't seem to be able to be reconciled the idea that you would want to win now but also move Lowry Markinen and Walker Kessler. So that doesn't add up to me.
Yeah, I guess only time will tell.
All right, my friend, thanks for stopping buying a game day, Enjoy the game tonight, have a great week.
We'll chatch him.
You gots fence, all.
Right, the great Tom Haberstrow. We'll take a quick break. We've got one hour in the books, three hours to go. Zach Harper from the Athletic Joint just coming up next. I'm Ben bringing Brian.
Dunseeth in today.
Donny was on the broadcast team for turn for Turner Sports last night as the US men's national team got their heads kicked in one year away from the World Cup. Neil Smith, former general manager of the Rangers, stop out of Talk Some Hockey Pablo Master Winny to preview RSLs match Start things off today with Tom Haberstrow Rest in Peace. Brian Wilson at the age of eighty two Beach Boys on the show today, Zach Harper, I finally found a way to kill the bit.
Yeah, I mean I think we could have done like some kind of remix.
Uh, you know, on the day he passes. That's that's how you're leading. Look at you?
Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not celebrate both?
Can you let the body be cold before we're making jokes about the man wagers passed?
Please didn't do it.
He kind of did. Happy Wednesday, man, how are you doing. I'm good, I'm good. I'm gonna start with a little jazz here because over the path we were just talking about this with Tom over the past four days or so. We have Sarah Todd here locally, who covers the jazz for the d News. Bill Simmons on his podcast, then most recently Zach Lowe, I'll say the Jazz are actively taking phone calls on Marketing and Kessler. Uh So if you juxtaposed that with Austin Ainge and his press are
saying that no more tanking, We're not manipulating minutes. What does that say to you about what it's going to look like next year for the Jazz.
Well, maybe they're, you know, trying to get Giannis there you go, k or both.
Yeah, probably not, but you're out of the box thinker.
I like that. Yeah. I mean maybe you know, if you if you play your best players but your best players aren't any good, is that tanking?
Mm hmm.
You know, kind of a philosophical question here, you know, like, hey, we put our best guys out there, just not any good. So maybe that's maybe that's kind of the loophole. Everyone loves the loophole.
It's essentially what Washington did last year, right, And look, I don't know if the Jazz, even if they held held on to Kessler and marketing and all of their vets and they played all of those players sixty five to seventy games, I don't think they're winning more than twenty five or thirty games, but if you do win thirty games, you are in a position where you could lose that pick. So maybe it is just like next year is all like twenty three and under players playing for the Jazz all year.
Yeah, and I just don't I mean the whole thing of like we don't tank anymore, Like what are we doing? What are you doing here? Like it's it's just done lip service, and like maybe he's going to be good to the job, Like I don't know, like people really
respect him around the league. He seems to have done a good job in Boston with what his role was, Like it just seems it seems like something to say at a press conference, but not something to actually do in rebuilding this team, because you look at the at the roster and like there's some nice young players here and there, but there's nothing that even like even hints at the idea that they're going to be any kind of confident in the next year or two.
Yeah, And look, I mean, ultimately I understand the marketing thing because he turns twenty nine next year, which is not old by any stretch of an imagination, but it probably doesn't fit the timeline. The caster ones kind of interesting though, because he's twenty three years old. So, just generally speaking, both of those players, what sort of interest do you think they would hold around the league? And what sort of return could the Jazz get for both of them?
Yeah, I wonder if Lowry's return is lower than what it would have been a year or two ago. Right, I mean, I don't know how many people are are looking to give up a lot of draft picks right now. I don't even know how many teams have a lot of draftics to give up outside of you know, Okac's got them, and you know Brooklyn's got a couple, and you know, you've got some teams here and there. You know, Houston's got a couple, Like you've got some teams here
and there that can give up some draft capital. But I just I don't know that that's an easy fit to just go get marketing. And even if it is, I don't know that the market is all that hot for them. That doesn't mean teams don't want them. I just don't know that they're in a huge position of power to start a bidding war. Now, that could all change with just one team deciding, like you know what that that seven foot who could really score, we could use them on our roster, and so there there will
be a market for him. I just I just don't know if it's as hot as it would have been before the extension. So for him, like that's probably more of a waiting game. My guess would be maybe that's that's more of a trade deadline deal for him. That makes sense when when teams really are desperate, because I don't I don't know. I also just don't know how active this summer is going to be as teams still adjust to the second apron and everything. Kessler is an
interesting one. It makes me wonder what the vision of this team is moving forward, if they want a more traditional big man who's the rim protector, or if they're looking at something far more versatile. And I do think Kessler can do a little bit more athletically and skill wise than what he's been asked to do the last two seasons. But at the same time, there does seem to be a limit in terms of the versus Tildy that he can provide. So that may just be a
style of play idea. And you know, he's a young guy on a on a good rookie contract. Where where there is a lot of a lot of skill set and there is a lot of definitive tangible role that you can put him into right away if you acquire him. So I think that's just possibly selling maybe not high, but selling like pretty well on a young asset.
It was reported today your old buddy Shams reporting that Kevin Durant and his reps, namely Rich Climban, are actively looking at options for him because the sons have to do something.
They're stuck with Brad Beale.
I don't think they'll trade book and so they probably have to trade KD. So two part question, who is Kevin Durant in today's NBA at his stage in his career and where do you think ultimately he lands if he's dealt Do you.
Think Shams just has that draft ready to just fill in the teams because we've had this so many times.
One hundred percent for sure.
Like man, I feel like I've read that a lot over the years. Yeah, it's an interesting question because you know he is up there in age, he's still really good. I don't know how reliable he is from an availability standpoint, And I think that's the tough part in terms of what you're giving up for him. But if you add him to the team, if you can get sixty games and playoffs out of him, you know, that's that's still one of the ten to fifteen best players in the world.
Like he I mean, he's still incredible. He played really well this year. He was just in a disaster of a situation. So I think you put him, you know, on a San Antonio or a Houston or Minnesota or any of these teams that appear to be interested in him, I think it's a massive acquisition. You know, there's been some online trade ideas I don't even even want to say rumors. So I don't think that's that's an accurate way of putting it. But there's like, oh, what if
they traded Cat for Durant. I'm like, I don't think that's a win for either team, you know, Like I don't think that, Like it's not that he's as you know, the same level as Cat, but I just I don't know if that would fix anything for what they need. And so I do think it's not just an easy thing across the board. I also, like, I don't know how much I would give up for him at this point.
I mean, what you're maybe getting two years and you don't know two years of potentially you know, close to elite play, and you don't know how available it's he's going to be in those two years. So I just think that's a that's a weird situation too, where maybe it feels like that deal, it's probably gonna look a lot better when it gets reported wherever that ends up being, than what we might think it'll look like.
So I've always pushed back on the whole, like KD had to join Steph and that crew to win championships.
I mean, over the.
Years, a lot of great players have chased rings with other great players, and that's not something that's unique to him. But when you look at his resume, you know, Finals MVP twice, League MVP, He's led the league in scoring six times, He's made fifteen All Star teams, Rookie of the Year All NBA six seven times. When Russo and Steven Ay are yelling at each other in spanks in fifteen years about his legacy and the fact that he's played for five teams comes up, what does that say
to you about him? I mean, a player like that to play for five different teams because he is historically special, Like, what does that say about the path that he's traveled.
I think that's more about the times, right, I think that's more about the era, because I don't know, like you look at that and with KD, I think that there's a certain point where maybe he made some bad decisions or some tough decisions, or things just didn't work out. Like I don't think Brooklyn was a bad decision for him.
I think that they they they came really close to you know, the everyone talks about it, but like you know, he's half a shoe size away from sending Milwaukee home, and then who knows what happens with that Brooklyn team? Do they win the championship? And if they win the championship, then then how do you know? Obviously all of that looks great and all that change is the course of history. But his foot was just a little too big on
that final shot in regulation. They lost in overtime, So you know, there are all these what ifs with him. It's funny because I've talked about this with a lot of people over the last year or so, where they don't really consider him like a champion, They don't consider him not a champion, but those those Warriors titles are weird. Like I consider him a champion. I'm like, hey, you
won the titles. Like, I get that it was easier to do because of that team and because of your decision, but you still won the championships, right Like, we don't we don't really do that with any other player in history. But I get why people don't hold them in the same regard as other championships, right Like, it's definitely not the same level as what Dirk did for in his one with Dallas. So like, I think ultimately you get some you know, you get some distance from the era.
And when you know, President Stephen a Is is arguing about it on first take before he goes back into the Oval office someday, like I you know, I think we're gonna. I think we're gonna We're just gonna look at the numbers and the awards and everything and be like, hey, the guy's one of the ten to fifteen greatest players we've ever seen.
You know, there was a time I would have laughed at that potential. And then after twenty sixteen, like you know, who knows if.
You were if you were laughing or crying, and I couldn't tell if I was either.
It's just it's just where we're at.
Nothing would surprise me anymore at this point, all right, outside of Durant. You mentioned the Yannis potential and you're plugged in?
Is that real?
Like do you think they're gonna, well, they would move off of him, but do you think he's gonna look for a different home? And kind of same question, what does that look like? Where do you think he lands?
Man?
I don't. I don't think it's real. I think that they're like this is all me just guessing, right, I don't have any reporting on this. This is just me reading tea leaves from very far away. But like to me, I think there is a real obsession with the pr
of it all for Yannis. And I look at that in his like his press conferences and him trying to be the dorky guy and like, oh, I don't understand what anything is right, Like he's really held onto that and he's got like the Disney thing and all this stuff. And I do think that there is like it may it may happen eventually. I don't think it's happening now where he asks out, I think he believes that that would look bad. I don't think he probably wants to
still make it work in Milwaukee. Now, One conversation with a star player elsewhere could change that. One decision where he like really just steps back and looks at what Milwaukee's going to be next season, and he and if he gets some kind of you know, bird's eye view of this and realizes, oh, I'm really on my own next season, maybe he decides he doesn't want to do that.
But I do think that there is this this real like obsession with looking like the good guy, being the good guy, and trying to stick this out and pull all this together and maybe trying to find some way even though it's unrealistic, to bring people to Milwaukee rather than him going elsewhere, at least in the time being.
The hubris of the Knicks has to be discussed today. It's like, and you know my background, I'm a lifelong fan of the team and love that they're relevant again, relevant again. But you're relevant for the first time in thirty years. So your approach is to fire a good coach and then believe you can talk to whoever you
want to in the league. So I have to admit the humor that I'm finding in this situation where all three coaches they apparently wanted to talk to they've been denied permission, and that they kind of scracking me up today.
I mean, it's like if you broke up with your girlfriend then you just started dming Eva Mendez. You're like, hey, I know you've got Ryan Goslin at home, but like what about it? Right? Like it's just it's insane. Like it's like, I guess I understand the Jason Kidd think a little bit. You do have the connection between Jalen Brunston and Jason Kidd. He does have a history of doing this before, right, That's how he got to Milwaukee.
Like that's not totally unprecedented with him. And there are a lot of whispers, rumors whatever about he maybe doesn't want to be tied to this pr nightmare that is the Dallas Mavericks right now. Now. I don't know how real that is, but that's at least been going around a little bit. So there are some maybe tea leads to read there to think maybe you have a chance of getting him to talk to Dallas Mavericks into allowing this, you know, interview to happen and you know, grant permission
and all this stuff. So like that's like maybe ninety percent ridiculous rather than one hundred percent the Chris since email your Doka thing. Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's that's absurd.
I don't know where you.
Would get that kind of that kind of just like you said, Hubris, I mean, it's it's ridiculous. Like I'm wondering, are they going to go like talk to Nick Noltie and Blue Chips next and ask Western University for permission? Are they going to go after coach Carter like you know, Sam Jackson, Like I don't like, where do they turn to next? I don't understand. And this just leads me to believe like I thought it when they fired Tibbs, and I believe that this entire time, I never thought
they had a plan for replacement. I think they just decided, we don't like this guy anymore.
Yep.
And that's what happens when the guy who owns the team owns the team. All Right, I know you got to go, so you be as quick as you can. Where's you got? Where's your gut?
Right now?
With the finals? Do you think the patri excuse me. Do you think the Pacers have a puncher's chance ors it feel like it's more or less just going out Casey's way.
No, I do think the Pacers have a real chance of this. I think I don't think they have just played perfect basketball. But it can't look like Game two, Like they've got to be more forceful and aggressive in getting into the paint like they were in Game one, and we didn't see that in Game two, and we saw them, you know, not generate the same looks with the three point shooting in Game two as they did
in Game one. I actually think they probably win tonight and then I think the Thunder runoff three straight and close this thing out. But no, I think they like I get it, I get why people dismiss this team. I think they're really good though, and I think they have like a twenty five percent chance to win the series, which I think is pretty good and way higher than most people would give them. But you can't deny what the Thunder are, and you can't deny how good that
team is. And I think just about everybody would pick the Thunder for good reason.
All Right, buddy, we'll set you loose. Enjoy the game tonight.
We'll chat soon, okay, Dalla Zach Harper from The Athletic also a bunch of different podcasts, en Aphobe and others. Get them on Twitter at toak Hoops is where you find Zach. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the Knicks do moving forward if you're just kind of
getting up to the situa up to speed with the situation. Apparently, the contingency plan after New York fired Tom Thibodeau was to be able to interview whatever coach they felt like they wanted an interview, so they contacted Dallas.
Dallas said, you cannot talk to our coach.
They contacted Houston, Houston said no, and then they contacted Minnesota and Minnesota no because Minnesota said no. Because all three of those teams really like their head coach. It is pretty wild that that's the contingency plan in place. But of course the next at this point are falling flat concerning the Jazz and the reports over the past four or five days from reputable NBA people that they
are fielding calls on marketing and Kessler. Zach brings up an interesting point where it could be a scenario that we see any of these moved one closer to the trade deadline.
Now.
The thing about the vets on the Jazz roster now, where they've been trying to move on from Sexton and trying to move on from Clarkson and trying to move on from Collins with no takers, I could completely see any or all of them moved pretty quickly. Now, Donovan wasn't traded, if I remember correctly, Donovan wasn't traded until August or September. I think Rudy was first, and then Bogdanovitch.
I don't think it was traded into October. So some of these things are a slow play, and I understand the scenario with the timeline maybe not fitting market In's timeline. The Kessler thing is really interesting to me. He is only twenty three years old. So if they really do this, if these reports actually lead to trades that go down, and to be very clear, it's one of the reasons I rolled my eyes. And a lot of these things. Of the one thousand NBA rumors that are reported, like five
of them happen. So no part of me believes that they're like trading Lowry tomorrow. I could be completely wrong, or have they done some calculations on the ability to move up in the draft, and they're going to include marketing in a package to maybe try to grab the second pick from the Spurs.
I don't know.
There are a lot of possibilities out there, so the marketing thing makes a little more sense based off this timeline. I think when they initially traded for Lowry and he had that all Star season year one, they may have done a little bit of a calculation where they felt like they were closer to being good than they actually were, because even year one they weren't close to being good.
They were very close to being average.
But nobody wants to be average in the NBA because that's treading water, and so I think there's probably been more of an acceptance of a long game play.
With Jazz Brass.
That's just what my gut tells me, based off of maybe over inflating expectations after moving on from Rudy and Donovan and that group and having a team that showed some proficiency year one, but they've also broken down average teams in the name of being bad, you know, two to last three years. Last year was the first time
they like leaned into the whole thing. And when you look at other teams that have got about their businesses the same way, and we can use the Thunder as an example, even though it's really unfair to draw a parallel between anybody and the best roster constructor in pro basketball, that's Sam Presty. But it took Sam four or five years to get this thing where it is. But unlike the Jazz, Sam didn't slow play his rebuild. He was much more deliberate and intelligent with his approach as opposed
to what the Jazz have done. So hopefully Austin can bring a little bit more sensible decision making. And you know, the unfortunate reality of what the tea leaves seemed to indicate is that last year was probably year one of a four or five year process because they blew it and they slow played what they should have done from the start. So as a Jazz fan, you know it doesn't land well because you're probably in for another four
or five years of losing, hopefully not more. I mean, that's the dirty little secret of several organizations throughout the course of Pro basketball who've had ownership changes and the owner wants to come in and do his thing because He's a tech pro that's had success elsewhere or whatever, and the front office, you know, does not have the guts to stand up and say no, this is what
we need to do. There are teams like that that have been in no man's land for like twenty years, and that's the underlying fear right that this thing won't get going anytime soon. Rii Wilson passing away today at the age of eighty two years old. Chief songwriter, lead singer for the Beach Boys. So some sad news earlier. We got Pablo on the show today. We'll get you ready for ourselves match. We're gonna do some hockey with Neil's. But the US men's national team got their heads kicked
in last night four nil final score. A next guest was on the broadcast team for TNT. Good friend of the program. Always great to catch up with. Brian Dunseeth Wednesday afternoon. Donny, how are we doing man?
You caught me at the perfect time, Spence. I got home from Nashville this afternoon. I'm off to Atlanta tomorrow for the start of the FIFA Club World Cup. Busy summer of soccer and super looking forward to that. But yeah, last night was what did the kids say? Not great?
Bob?
Yeah, what wasn't too great?
It definitely was not great Bob on a scale from zero to Alexi Lawless crying about patriotism on TV after last night.
How high is the panic meter today?
You know, we did a pregame segment about the panic meter and I put you know, he was, are you panicked? Are you not panicked? That Sarah Walsh was teeing us up and we're using the USA logo as like our heavy paper weight in front of our deskt He pressed that button and I was kind of I put my hand over it, and I was joking with Kyle Martino. I had the Martino shakes because I wasn't ready to panic, but I wasn't ready to say I wasn't panicking. And that really does come down to a calendar year ago.
Our coverage was out in DC and we're getting ready for Columbia a couple days later down in Orlando against Brazil, and that was the lead into Coba Medica, and oh how things have changed. Things going completely sideways against Panama, it leads to being dumped out of the group stage of Coba Medica. Greg Berhalter loses his job to transition moment over to Marisa Bochattino. A couple of months ago, we go into the Nations League Finals out in Los Angeles,
the fourth consecutive of the Nations League Final. We're looking to lift our fourth consecutive Nations League trophy. We lose the Panama again, then we lose to Canada in the third fourth place match, and then we head into a Gold Cup where we always understood that at the end of the domestic European campaign there were going to be players that needed to take a break, whether that be for injury or mental fatigue. We knew there was plenty of wear and tear on the tires for a lot
of these guys. We also knew it was going to be an opportunity for Marisa Puchkino to continue the evolution of players like Jack mcgleahn, like Diego Luda from Real Salt Lake, like Patrick Agimon from Charlotte. But I think the conversation and the narrative took on its own set of circumstances. When a player like Christian Polisic his exclusion from the US men's national team, it takes on a life of its own, because the story was dictated through
US Soccer, not by Christian politic and his representatives. And then it gets turned into he doesn't want to be here. I'm not sure that's the case. But in the public domain of argument, if we wouldn't have had the year that we've had, nobody would care if Christian was a part of this Gold Cup roster or not the part of this Gold Cup roster. But the reality is he is Captain America. He is by far our best player. He is as of I would assume still the captain
of the team. And when you have back to back losses against Turkey in Switzerland, which I thought they were actually much better than the result showed against Turkey, but yet we judged teams on wins and losses and heavy rotation. And I said, when I was doing the lineup for the game against Switzerland the other night, Bracio Pochettino told us he wanted to give players opportunities to prove that they deserve to play significant minutes in the Gold Cup.
He made nine changes to his starting eleven and unfortunately, in our first forty five minutes, a majority of those nine changes I think probably proved to Mauricio Bilichatino and to the world that maybe they weren't ready for an opportunity to play at the full US men's national team level in a way that maybe we were all predictive
and hopeful for. So second half was much better, but still foreign no losses for no loss against the Switzerland side that was coming off what was a eight games without a win ahead of a Luxembourg win and a win in Salt Lake City against Mexico. And now the gloves are off and this group is taking a beating ahead of what is it next Sunday's game out in San Jose, Agan's try to kick off the twenty twenty five Gold Cup.
All right, your reference Polisic who was not present, Sergenio Dust wasn't either, Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams. Off the top of my head, you know, those are kind of the main guys that weren't available. So help me understand how many players that we will see play for this team in the World Cup were not present for the game last night and we will not have for the Gold Cup.
Yeah, I mean, off the top of my head. Christian obviously is not there. Anthony Robinson, Jedi Robinson from Fulham had knee surgery, so he was getting cleaned up for a problem that he had had. Serginio Dusk there's still risk management with him coming back from his ACL tear. Were at PSD Iron Hooven. Obviously, Gio Reina is with Brucia Dortmund, Tim Waya and Wes McKinney or with Youve those two teams are participating in the FIFA Club World Cups,
so they have priority. Uh, there's a there's a there's a narrative out there and it's it's completely wrong. Mauricio Putstino on his staff, wanted to give the group of players the opportunity to play in all of these games. And they did not want to bring in Geo or Weston and Tim to this game because they knew that they weren't going to be there for the Gold Cup, so they thought it was probably better that they stayed
and focused on their opportunity. But then you kind of get in the weaves when you're thinking about Joe Scale, you're thinking about Ricardo Peppy, you're thinking about Joss Sargent, you think about Sanna Tessaman, you think about Joe mcaoboose here you think about Aiden Morris, Who else am I missing in this group? That's kind of the core group of guys, and then you kind of have guys that are fringe guys around the world that you know, Twitter takes a liking to and thinks that they should be
called in. So I would say, arguably you're missing seven to eight true starters and then probably collectively somewhere around twelve realistic players that would be on a World Cup roster.
But again, Spence, I think you know, a year ago, I think every average US soccer fan could probably name a majority of the players that they would think would be starting eleven players for the US going into the World Cup, And I think that number is probably open for debate based on what we've seen in these last twelve months.
Okay, So, operating off that premise with the group of players you just listed, is it fair to say that the people that believe this guy is falling just need to pump the brakes based off the fact that maybe the US men's national team and Pochettino was without the majority of their best players. Is it fair to say that maybe there's some overreaction because based off of what you just outlined the World Cup team that we'll see
summer was not properly represented last night. Is that fair to say, oh, one hundred percent?
I mean everybody knew. Well, let me tell you this. The Turkey team. The Turkeys team that they played out in Connecticut. The only player they were missing two players, one of the starting center backs which is debatable, a guy named Bardaki and then Hakan Shinnanaglu who was their captain and played for Inter Milan in the Champions League final. He had picked up a knock so he did not travel to play for Turkey. A and Vincenzo Montella, so
they were arguably arguably missing one absolute difference maker. And the rest of this was you know, teams that had lost to one at the Euros semi or quarterfinal against the Netherlands and were coming off a six to one aggregate win against Hungary a month and a half ago. There was some rotation in Switzerland side that up at ries that goals beat Mexico four two and absolutely took
them apart. Smashed Mexico. No one saw that result coming, but then again, no one saw them beating the United States fornell as well, and that team was probably the strongest possible team that Murac could put together for Switzerland. So in terms of experience and full squad, both of these teams these past two losses were definitely Turkey and Switzerland were the much better team, much more experienced team, and much more closer to full strength than this US
group could have ever been. But again, even though there's nuance in the conversation Spence, the reality is that we
judge success and failure by wins and losses. And unfortunately, again when you go back to calendar year, the dry run for hosting the twenty twenty six World Cup was the Copa Medica and to see US and again, this is football, This is sports in a moment in which an individual player can make a mistake, a referee's involvement, var intervention with technology, all of these things can go sideways and horrifically upend any opportunity that you had to
try to make a run to lift a trophy. If we were to say, if you were to ask me, Donny, has everything gone horrifically sideways? My answer would probably be yes. In its last twelve months, to the point where now Mauricio Pochettino in a ten games in charge. He has five wins and five losses. That wasn't projected, that wasn't expected.
And I think right now Mauricio Pochettino is probably looking at this the full concept of what the US men's national team roster looks like and has way more questions than answers. And this is again, you're a Spurs guy. This is his first foray into coaching international football and
this will be the first time. The benefit of having a ross together for the better part of thirty days is hugely beneficial for he and his staff, but it will come at a cost because it won't be with his first choice froster.
So over the past twenty four hours or so, we've heard Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, the aforementioned Patriot, Lexi Lawless be very critical of the group that we've spoken about who've elected not to be part of the Gold Cup.
Now.
It's interesting because the Gold Cup, historically speaking, has been a place for players that maybe aren't part of the first choice World Cup group to get some exposure. It's how It's how Kyle and Nicky broke into the group and they of course went on to play in the World Cup. Tony Beltran was on a Gold Cup team as well. But is there an extra layer of criticism that these players deserve based off the fact that the World Cup in our region is only a year away?
Do you think they should have looked to play based off the fact that the World Cup's right around the corner.
Well, so again there's nuance to this. So let me take you back head of the twenty twenty two World Cup and guitar. The United States had two international friendlies. They were empty stadiums over in Europe, and I believe they played Japan in Saudi Arabia and they were horrific in both of those games, to the point where you know, something I said went viral and I made the mistake of questioning that group and their preparation, habits and ultimately
what they could do at the World Cup. And I was dead wrong specific to performances and leadership by Christian Polissic, because when that tournament started, Greg Burhalter got the squad right, he got the starting eleven right, and that team was incredibly impressive. And that's where the Golden generation moniker really took hold. They were fantastic in the group stage, and if they would have and nobody would have ever predicted that Holland would sit back, defend and just hit in
the transition, score goals at the back posts. Louis van Hall, we thought it was going to be style and substance, identity possession, and they were just going to bury the Mens States. Instead they played cat and mouse instead of playing them straight up. After that World Cup, then you had the obvious conversation of Giorana, Greg Burholter, Giorana's parents, and that horrific off the field issue that led to a determined amount of time that Greg Burhlter wasn't the
US men's national team coach. Besides that, Ernie Stewart and Brian McBride both we leave leadership roles behind the scenes, and US Soccer goes out and hires Matt Crocker who had come over from Southampton and experience with the England national team. There's so many layers to this conversation. And then okay, so we're really talking about Christian. Here's the reality. In the last two years, I've pulled the stats on Christian Polistic. He's played one hundred games for Acnlon. It's
something like thirty six goals, twenty assists. He's played somewhere around seven two hundred and fifty minutes in two seasons. When you compare and contrast that to the five years he played for Chelsea, it was one hundred and forty six games and somewhere roughly around eight thousand minutes. So in the last two years he's almost already matched the
five years he was at Chelsea Football Club. It's so you know, you go back to those years he was injured, dealing with hamstrings, groins, the stop start nature, substitute coming off the bench. He's a full time starter. He's an absolute number ten and in a dark season for a Simulan points wise, table wise, he was absolutely one of the shining stars. And it felt like monthly he was up for Player of the Month in City Off Football.
So I can understand the idea of resting this tournament to make sure he's one hundred percent focused for the summer and next season. I think that's what gets lost in this conversation, because if the United States doesn't fail a Copamatica, and it doesn't fail in Nations League, nobody gives a flying squirrel. If Christian Polistic takes off this summer after two hectic, busy years and gets himself right, gets himself physically right, and make sure that by the
time the World Cup comes he's flying. Landon there's nuance to that conversation. I don't think he's wrong in some of the aspects, but people are also pointing out that Landon took that what it was at six to seven month mental health break where he walked away from the
LA Galaxy in the national team. It was something that Clint Dempsey referenced and ultimately at the desk the other night working with DeMarcus Beasley, four time World Cup veteran, I said in postgame, after knowing him for almost thirty years, I've never seen him so dumbfounded and at a loss for words based on what happened. So there's so many different bullet points that are happening currently around this team.
But unfortunately, because it's Chris simplistic, he's been the face of US soccer for the better part of the last two World Cup cycles, and we understand how important he is on the field. The fact that he's not here and the fact that he and his camp haven't taken control of the narrative. I think that's why there's such a significant uproarn frustration about the situation, all.
Right, concerning Pochettino.
Two part question here, is it time to maybe look at the Greg Burholter stuff a little differently as well? Because I've always believed and look, it doesn't matter the sport. I mean, the Knicks just fired Tom Thibodeaux after the Eastern Conference finals. Coaches are the ones that typically fall on the sword because players aren't a contract, and players are the ones that essentially run the thing, because there's no such thing as a great coach without great players.
And so it does feel like the US Mets national team has punted on Bob Bradley, Jurgen Klinsman, Greg Burholter. So I'm wondering what's fair to say about Potchettino based off the results for straight l's five and five and ten, and whether or not we need to.
Look at what Greg did a little differently.
Now you know, I played, I played with Greg Burholter at the US and national team level. I had worked with Greg Burholter, and I'd seen and covered him for a long long time. And I've said this multiple times publicly. There is a moment and it's not the place blame on Tim Way in any way, shape or form, but because there's a lot of moments in that game against Panama Coba Medica. They beat Olivia to know, they go into the Panama game, they score at Weston McKinney goal, aheader,
he's judged to be offside. A few minutes later, a Panamanian player absolutely demolishes Matt Turner. Not a yellow card, no foul called. Matt Turner is forced to leave the game at halftime. That's how heavy the collision was. And in that moment, Tim Weya, you know, off the ball, you know, pops a chicken wing and next thing you know,
he's been shown straight red. So there was a lot of When everyone talks about what Greg Borurholter did, writer Greg Burhlter did wrong, the reality is that that moment, that red card shown to Tim Weya is the perfect example of a split second decision where the tied turns and everything goes sideways. Just a quick reminder, Greg was neither a better coach or a worse coach based on
that singular moment. But US Soccer decided to go in a different direction because it was deemed a failure and going out in the groups age of a Coba Medica, with all of the momentum and the hype and the opportunity, was probably the right decision the way that Matt Crocker and company looked at it. But now with Marisa Pochettino, I don't think you put the panic button on Marisa Putchettino in his staff, because I can promise you they
care more than people. I mean, from an egotistical standpoint, do you think they want to come to the United States and fail after getting fired at Chelsea Football Club a couple.
Of months ago.
No, that's certainly not the case. So big picture, I think that right now they've got to figure out what's the right steps going forward to make sure they can get this back on track. Because the reality is, you got a calendar year tell the start of the World Cup, and I think all of us former players, all of US pundits, all of US media members, and most importantly all of US fans don't have a lot of faith for what this group is capable of doing in a
World Cup. It's not just a generational World Cup, but this is a World Cup with an opportunity to create legends, and what a wasted missed opportunity for the general public to not be able to get behind, you know, our US men's national team in a similar manner that we see every four years with the Olympics.
Let me ask you about Diego, who actually thought came into the second half and showed, well, now they were getting smoked, so it was too late. But Poachattino has said in the past that he likes him. Does Diego have a shot to make the World Cup roster not just the Gold Cup roster?
Diego Luna, In my humble opinion, I predicted this. I think he's going to be I think he's going to be a starter at the World Cup.
Oh wow, nice?
Yeah, I don't, I don't. I know, Marisa Putsatino and his staff absolutely adore him, and we all saw the images when he got his nose broken and he had
to fight through and his grit and determination. I said this during the pregame show when obviously, you know, when when our group covers not only the US men's national team because of you know, my my affinity and respect for what Diego's done, but also on the women's side with Ali sitin Or which they absolutely adore Ali because she's been incredible and she's such an incredible human being.
But in the pregame show, I was explaining once again just to remind people that Diego Luna has always bet on it himself. He's a guy that came from a world in northern California in which decisions were made and he wasn't. He left, He went to Texas, played for pulled the trigger to bring him to Salt Lake. He worked on his fitness, he worked on his psychology, the mental side of the game, the physical side of the game.
He changed his body profile, and he, without a shadow of a doubt, dealt with despair of missing out on the Olympics and turned it into I'm an MLS All Star, I'm an MLS Young Player of the Year, and I'm going to take this opportunity with both hands. And I can promise you that if Marine Kiopo Chattino had twenty six Diego Lunas heading into the World Cup, I think we would all feel much more comfortable about our chances of not only having a decent World Cup, but potentially
having a great World Cup. Because that's the type of body language, that's the type of leadership, that's the type of technical ability and skill and that raw emotion that we all wish we see from every single player, the moment that they pulled that jersey over their chest and they see the cress loud and proud.
Over their heart before we say you lose. So let's get a little RSL in DC in town on Saturday. Only two matches in June, and it is getting late early for this club. Sitting on fifteen points, four ten and three madestein gold differential and without Diego for a minute, it's going to be rough. I wonder if Ali can play for RSL. She's the best striker in the state,
and it's not close. We got the Somber transfer Wento coming up, and then after that, I think there are thirteen total matches combined league play in League's Cup play. So your thoughts on where we stand with RSL and does it feel like this season might be too late to salvage already?
Unfortunately, it does feel like that because this group continues to figure out ways to creatively lose to some of the worst teams in Major League Soccer. And that's my concern against DC United. You know, when you lose against Toronto FC at home, when you lose against an LA Galaxy team that hasn't lost in sixteen games, it doesn't
give you much hope. And I understand the complexity and the nuance to an ownership switch, you know, from Blitzer and Smith to the Millers and Blitzer, but this team was financially woefully prepped for what this season was going to be. You know, you go back. I had this to learn on my phone a week ago, and it was a year ago. It was like fourteen games without a loss, and you think about Anderson Julio, you think about Andres Gomez, you think about Cucurito, you think about
Matt Crooks, all these guys, and they're all gone. And then you transition and Diego is the loan standout in this group this season, and you're waiting for somebody else to alleviate the pain and frustration of what's happening, and it just isn't there, and so it's starting to feel
like lost season. You know, take off my affinity for Real Salt Lake and the success because I always kind of say they're anywhere between a third place team and a tenth place team, dependent upon the nuclear arms race of spending in Major League Soccer, but I'm hoping that very swiftly this team has the financial wherewithal to be able to go out and find some difference makers and
do it in a timely manner. That's similar to what we saw when Chico Lroongo showed up and already had six weeks underneath his belt of being in market training with the team and being incredibly prepared for the opportunity to step on the field and be the immediate difference maker. This team needs help, but as I say that, Pablo
and Pablo needs help. But as I say that, there's a very capable group of players inside of that locker room and they got to figure this out, because if they don't, I hope there's someone inside of that locker room that has the stones or kahonas to say, hey, by the way, if we don't turn this around, there's gonna be guys without jobs. You can you have to sell your homes. You're gonna have to know, bust tail and get out of town because this hasn't been good enough,
and once again RSL can't. There was so much hype and so much momentum spence everywhere I went last year. Everybody was asking me about RSL, Dude, what's going on? How are they so strong? How are they so consistent? Pablo has been incredible, and this year it's the opposite.
It's what in the world is happening out there? And I don't think there's there's one hundred percent correct avenue to try to explain what's happened this year without placing blame on the players first and foremost, because these are professional players making a boatload of money, and quite frankly, outside of Diegaluna, they're just not showing up.
Donnie and my friend, I appreciate the time, excellent work on the broadcast. I know you got a busy summer, so hopefully you can chat with you soon. But until then, safe travels my friend.
Okay, anytime you Me and my man have a good.
One, all right.
Brian Dunzeth RSL original MLS VET ten years played for the US men's national team. As they got stomped last night. It was embarrassing. Gold Cup coming up on Sunday. Hopefully they can figure something out between now and then. Donny stops by today courtesy of our friends at Outlaudis Dilly new partner here on the ESPN Sports Network, Outlaudis Stillery is a homegrown grain to glass, nitty gritty whiskey, vodka, rum, and moonshine distillery right here in Salt Lake County.
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You tah groun with so much history here of cowboys, outlaws, mining and more. They have everything on the spirit spectrum. They've got it all. We're happy to have them on board. Now you can book a tasting and if you tell them you heard me talking about it, they're gonna hook you up with your shot glass as a souvenir. So get your tour and tasting booked at outloudistillery dot com today.
Appreciate them being on board.
Wait did you tell me that the Knicks just asked the Hawks for permission to speak with Quinn Snyder and Atlanta said.
No, Yeah, that's one you can add to the list.
Oh my gosh.
So the New York Knicks, who fired a great coach after going to the Eastern Conference finals, decided their reaction to being relevant again was to act with the hubris of believing teams who like their coach would give you permission to talk to their coach. And at this point, with new news coming down the Knicks have been denied by Minnesota, Chris Finch, Houston, Emy Udoka, Dallas, Jason Kidd and now Atlanta and Quinn Snyder.
I wonder if they're going to contact the Jazz about Will Hardy.
Why not?
Goodness gracious, all right, Bruce phil Jackson. Indeed seriously. Brian Wilson passes away today at the age of eighty two. My first concert was the Beach Boys at the Paradount Theater at Madison Square Garden. Our next guest, Neil Smith. Neil, question, right out the top, first concert you.
Ever went to?
And where, Oh my gosh, you're not going to believe this, and this is really going to make me sound old when I'm really not that old. I went in nineteen sixty four to see the Beatles maple Leaff Curdins.
Wow, well that's an excellent first concert to attend, I'll tell you that much.
Yeah, when you're just a little kid, you really don't understand what's going on. I said, you see all these girls fainting and being carried out on stretchers and all that you heard about those days with the Beatles. It was insane. And of course these sound systems weren't that great back then, And all you can hear was just screaming, like they just screamed from the start of the concert of whatever they called it performance, you know, the whole
way through. That's what I remember. It's I don't know how old I was. I was. I wasn't even born yet. I was an embryo and I went to it.
That's it.
Did you did you ever go through a Beach Boys phase at all?
No?
I didn't know.
I did not. You know. The only one to me that I when I was young that really knocked me all over was the Beatles because they were something that I've still never seen to this day, a phenomena like that where everybody was talking about this band because of the you know, when they hit the Ed Sullivan Show and all that stuff. It just went crazy.
Yeah, that's that's amazing. You had that experience. I'm kind of jealous. I'm not gonna lie, all right, Neil. Since you and I last spoke on Monday evening, the Panthers made quite a statement stomping the Oilers six to one. So my question is, I know you've been on Florida quite a bit, but if you're Edmonton where you at right now after really getting you're a head handed to you in Game three.
You know, at first I want to say that it's not it's not odd that a there's blowouts in the In the final last year, Edmonton d Florida eight to one in the game and it ended up to Florida won the Cup as we know, two to one in Game seven. So I don't expect Edmonton to that shellacking the other night is going to be something that we're
going to see going forward. I do think Edmonton's going to have to make a lot of adjustments, and the first one that that's obvious to anybody is they've got to steep disciplined because Florida loves to play a game where they can pull you into taking penalties and pull you into the nonsense, and they've got a lot of those guys. Sam Bennett, Matt Kachuck and Brad Marshawn. Those guys are I'd love to just irritate you and get
you to get outside your game. So certainly Evander Kaine for the Oilers, who took three penalties I think in the first period, is going to have to be a lot more disciplined as is Corey Perry and Jake Woalman, who got a ten thousand dollars fine from the league for a five thousand dollars incident and another five thousand dollars incident both in that game the other night.
Do you think Edmonton is falling victim? You know, it's interesting because Edmonton is just more of this like skill speed, kind of like elegant hockey team, and Florida feels like they're full of the high school bullies you always hated when you were a kid. Do you feel like Edmonton is falling victim to maybe Florida's gamesmanship a little bit as part of that what happened in Game three.
I think that's what happened in Game three for sure. I think the other thing is is that they didn't they you know, they took penalties early and then got behind. And I don't think Skinner is as good as Bobrowski, but I don't think it was Skinner's fault. They lifted him when I got to five to one, and then Kelvin Pickard came in and they got one goal on him and that was it at the game ended six' to.
ONE i think That Chris, knoblock the head coach Of edmonton's going to have a big decision on his hands or has already probably already made, it but you, know or to make whether to go With pickard now that they put five Past Stuart, skinner or to stay with your number one, guy which Is Stuart skinner and think that he can you, know lead them out of. This
and that's going to be very interesting to see. That But edmonton doesn't doesn't want to play the kind of game they played the other night that they need to play five on. Five they need to keep Those newton hopkins'es and Dry sidles and. McDavid of, course they need to have them going out all the time and not killing penalties and only being out on power. Play so they felt prey to for his.
Game Sam bennett is now The vegas favorite to win the Con Smile. Award you, know we talked about the potential as The Utah mammoth into the offseason with a lot of money to spend in cap space of maybe them taking a look At Sam Bennett's is he playing his way into a different economic stratosphere at this? POINT i think he.
Is he scored thirteen, GOALS i believe it is in the playoffs twelve on the, road which sets a new record for goals being scored in the. Playoffs he's not a great point getter goal scorer during the regular, season but when playoffs, come he's always right. There SO i would think that the teams that will pay the most money For Sam bennett other than The Florida, panthers are the teams that feel that this could really put them
over the. Edge for, Example Colorado avalanche or you, know a team like, that maybe The La, kings maybe that gives them an edge to be able to Beat edmonton for the first time in a. Decade BUT i you know, WHAT i think he's going to end up back with The panthers. AGAIN i think that's where he'll sign and he'll take a hometown discount to fit into their salary.
Cap it feels, like and your point is well taken based off of the blowout that occurred last, year and oftentimes blowouts do, happen and last year was a wild ride where you, Know florida wins, Three edmonton wins, Three florida Wins game. Seven it does feel like there's a gap though that has emerged Between edmonton And. Florida is that fair and if, so how big do you think that gap?
Is, WELL i think that That florida could be up three games to. None right, now they are up two to. One they lost the first game in overtime when they had a, lead and for the first time in thirty two times they went into an intermission with a lead and then didn't win the. Game that's their playoff record With Paul, maurice as they had gone thirty two straight games winning win leading after either. Period SO i think
That florida has found a gap between them And. EDMONTON i think That florida Adding Seth jones And brad marshat at the deadline or close to the deadline has really bolstered that. TEAM i didn't see that. COMING i, MEAN i Think Seth jones is a number one, defenseman but when you put him an latt both out, there they've got excellent puck moving. Guys and then you've and then the rest of them are good too on. Defense but then you've got Marsha on who goes in and sits
right in with the Way florida wants to. Play and you know On boston he was always the one guy out there that was irritating. Everybody and he's sort of like a little you, know, firefly going around bugging everybody all the. Time well on this, team he's not the only. One, like there's three or four of them that are coming after you're biting at your heels all the. Time SO i do think that they found a little bit of a chink in the oiler's.
Armor are they getting enough from Dry sidle and. McDavid i, mean most people believe to start the, season you, know to start the, series it was really those two that would drive the. Engine AND i THINK i heard a lot of people say those two might be the best two players when you combine both. ROSTERS i don't know if that's. True but Is edmonton getting enough from their two?
Superstars well they certainly did In game, one when you, know Dry cidle had two goals in that game and and McDavid had to, assist and he made that outrageous play where he deaked Bark, off one of the best defensive forward in the, league and then deeked out Eck lad and then fed it over to Dry citle for a magnificent. Goal so, YEAH i do think they're getting enough out of. THEM i think that the problem is
is that they're not playing The oilers. Game they're falling into The panthers, game and then they can't do that because you can't use those gifts that Dry cycle and McDavid. Have if you're constantly trying to kill penalties and worried about, physicality you've got to you've got to stay composed and play the oiler type, game which is a speed game and not a jump it in and bang around.
Game as far as the coaching matchup, GOES i was listening to A Mark messier interview and he was really a plotting in the job That Paul maurice has. Done and does this feel like this has been a coaching mismatch so? Far your thoughts on the battle between these two head.
Coaches, NO i don't think it's been a mismatch at. ALL i think THAT i think That Chris noblock's a real good. COACH i think he said something on the bench to THE tnt, interviewer WHICH i think Was Jackie, redman and he said she talked to him in the first period and he, said you, know we've already taken four, penalties which is a recipe for disaster, here and that's
really what it. Was it was a disaster for. Them so, LOOK i Think Paul maurice right, now at this stage In june of twenty twenty, five is probably in the top three coaches in the league for. SURE i Think rod Brenda more is up there. Too but and by the, way the best coach in the league doesn't always win The Jack Adams award because that goes to the coach that does the best that particular. Year and you know whose team does the, best and so this year it
Was Spencer arbery of The Washington capital is well. Deserved BUT i Think Paul maurice is an excellent. COACH i think he's got this group. Nailed, like he knows This Florida panthers. Group he loves, them he knows what makes them. Tick AND i think it's really a magnificent job that
he's doing with his. TEAM i Think Chris knoblock has a bit harder job to do because he's got you, know he goes From conor McDavid And leon Dry, sidle two of the top three players in the league for, sure and then he's also Got Casperry kappanan playing on the same team on the third or fourth line that they picked up on waivers during the, season and they've got others going in and. Out so you've, got you, know a diversity of talent to limited talent on that.
Team it's not Like florida has a bunch of junkyard dogs almost you, know they're they're just they're all playing the same. Way and you, know you've got The oilers who are great, team great. Talent BUT i think That, florida's as you said, earlier has found a little bit
of a niche. There and we'll see tomorrow. Night if The Edmonton oilers tie the series tomorrow, night it's a two out of three with two of the games And edmondson and it could go either, WAY i. Believe but if The panthers win a course tomorrow, night then you know what the Fat lady is warming? UP i, think yeah for.
Sure and you referenced your thoughts on what you you know are what you think they need to do as far as being more, disciplined and you, know it's always interesting this time of, Year, Neo, like we have both THE nba and THE Nhl finals on our, station and it's that time of year where trophies are, won and when the regular season is behind you and you've already won three rounds in a playoff tournament, scenario it's always weird to talk about potential adjustments because it feels, like all,
right It's. June we are who we are and that's why we're a. Finalist, like what can The pacers do to adjust To oklahomas, SAY i don't. KNOW i Think rick just has to do what he's done because they're in THE Nba. Finals but when it comes to potential adjustments That edmonton can, make is it line, changes is it rotational, changes is it moving players? Around or is it just, like, look we're in The Stanley cup final, again we are who we are and we're just going to go be who we.
ARE i think it's the ladder what you. SAID i think That Chris knoblock is probably said to his, group we have to go and play our. Game we can't go into game four and let them make us play their. Game we know how we want to, play we know how we, play we know what wins for, us and we got to go get back to that and play that and to help with whatever they're. Doing and so that's the kind of that's the kind of adjustment at
this time of YEAR i think you have to. Make which is it's more, general, like come, on, guys, member why we're here because we're that good and play our. Game don't get sucked into their. Game AND i don't think it's it's the things like in the first round you'll see like you've got to adjust to somebody's third line or the second line is doing so, on or
that they're playing the power play a certain. WAY i, mean by, now each team knows each, other but they The Edmonton oilers have to play the game that they that they've played all, season which has been successful for, them the game that they started playing in game three of the first. Round they lost the first two games IN la and then found their footing in game three and went on to sweep THE La. Kings after that they'd won in. Six so that's what they have to do.
Here they have to go back to playing oiler.
Hockey, yeah and it's interesting because you reference THE la.
COMEBACK i, mean they've been coming back.
All season and all, postseason so it's hard to put a nail in. Them but what's your what's your gut tell? You let's move over to tomorrow. NIGHT i, MEAN i know you reference that If florida, wins it feels like it's on the precipice of being over And. Edmonton if they, win then we have a different. Conversation but based off of what we've seen so far and based off of what you just articulated With thatminton's ability to come back from, adversity what's your gut tell you tomorrow, night?
Boy oh, boy it isn't going to be a six to one. GAME i can tell you that it's going to be very, close AND i it may come down To bobrowski versus Whoever Chris knoblock puts, in Either Calvin pickard Or Stuart, skinner BUT i think IT'S i think it's going to be a very, close very close to
the vest type play in that game. Tomorrow that's that's my sense of, it because these two teams are so close in their ability in totally different, ways but they're so close THAT i think that it's going to, be you, know it's going to be in a close one goal, game maybe an overtime game when this Happens tomorrow.
Night as far as the decision that No block has with the, goalies Either Stuart skinner who's been the, starter Or, picker the. Backup talk to me about that, balance because, ultimately you, know if he does Pull skinner and Puts pickered in and he stands on his head and they, win then you probably roll with, him but you also run the risk of alienating the guy that's got you. THERE i, mean it's got to be a tough. Decision that's not an easy call for na.
Block, no it's a very tough. Call but let me tell you what. Happened and so in the first, Round Stuart skinner started and they lost two. Straight they Put pickered in and he won six straight. Games so then he got. Hurt they had to Put Stuart skinner back in and he started winning and he's been winning ever since up Until game. Three so now he's got to
make the decision at this late point in the. Playoffs DO i go with the guy who hasn't played for two weeks but did win sixth, straight or DO i go with the guy who's been winning for us but had one game where he let in five. Goals my gut tells, me my guess Is i'll go on the line on this. ONE i think he's going to Play Stuart. SKINNER i think that's what his decision will, be is to stay with him and then if things don't go well, early he's got picker that he can that he can put.
In BUT i think that's the direction he's going to.
Go All, right BEFORE i, set you lose a couple of things about where we find ourselves out this. Way of, course The Utah mammoth are preparing for THE Nhl draft and the combine just took place and is now behind. Us i've been a plenty OF nba. Combines i've never been to AN nhl. Combine, so as a guy that was a roster constructor at the highest of levels for so, long tell us about this. Process The Utah mammoth with
the number four pick in the first. Round they also maintain the majority of their other picks second round and. Beyond so what's it like For Bill armstrong and his staff to go to this combine took place In buffalo this past? Weekend and what are you guys looking for as you're building a.
Roster, WELL i think.
They're they're just looking at The they'll be there talking to the players and seeing the players meeting the real person and not just watching the kid down on the ice in the junior league or college or wherever he, place and they'll be able to see how mature he. Is they'll be able to see his physical maturity as well as talk to him about his mental. Maturity it's
another tool in your. Toolbox BUT i don't think that the combine in any way changes what you saw all season long on the, ice and SO i would fully expect that The utah scouting staff will have the four or five players lined up that they think are the top guys in the, draft and they'll be ready to pull the trigger on their pick. COMES i think the combine is, great and it's something that's been integral out
of THE nhl for a long. Time but, AGAIN i don't think it can change drastically what you've seen all season interview.
Process as a general manager or a head of scouting or an ASSISTANT gm or anybody in this, process what what are you looking for with your lot of questioning when you're interviewing these young hockey players who are all still. BABIES i, mean it's hard to get a feel on the maturity of somebody that is that. Young, oftentimes what are some of the things you look for during the interview. PROCESS i think the.
MATURITY i, think you, know how close is this young man to being able to play with? Men you, know is he how mature is? He how how well does he, understand you, know what happens at this, level at THE nhl, Level and how long do you does? It do you picture until he's going to be able to play in THE. Nhl you, know you may see a great hockey player at eighteen years, old but when you talk to, him you, know you find out that, boy he can't go into a locker room with the guys we've. GOT i, mean
he's got to grow up a little. Bit he's got to get a little bit more. Mature and as you Know, spence eighteen years old compared to nineteen years old is much more than a, year and nineteen compared to twenty is much more than a. Year say him thirty five to thirty six to thirty, SEVEN i, mean those those
are like six months each of. Those when you're a, kid there's a lot of maturation that goes on both mentally and physically when you're in your upper, teens and SO i think they'll be trying to, judge where are these young guys on the spectrum of.
Maturity neologics turned forty, Seven i'm still trying to figure it. Out so you DEFINITELY i hear you, there all, Right but BEFORE i set you, Loose i'll just pose one More utah mammoth question to. You and we've kind of discussed this in the past, before but we have a lot of new hockey fans.
Here what sort of?
Type and you can go, position you can go, vet you can go, mentality you can go. Whatever what sort Of if we, say you, know they're going to add the number four pick and he's maybe ready to, play maybe he's. Not other than, that whether it's trades or free. Agency if we say they add two or three, pieces what sort of pieces do you Think bill's looking for for this hockey club to take the next step next year and maybe make the. Postseason you, KNOW i.
THINK i would think that he wants to add a piece that is a mature type of. Piece and we talked last week About Ian cole being on the. Team was one The Stanley. CUP i think you need to get another couple of Olderly and WHEN i say, OLDER i don't Mean Corey Perry ole forty years. OLD i mean just guys that have been around for a while that can come in and help the young guys go through this process of learning about winning and learning about
how to. Win and then, also of, COURSE i don't want to leave out that whatever build thinks he can, upgrade he's going to try to do. That but that goes on all year, long all year. Round BUT i would think that any of these building, teams and they're not, rebuilding they're, building want to add solid veteran presence to their locker. Room doesn't have to be a, superstar doesn't have to Be besser From, vancouver it doesn't have to Be bennett From, florida doesn't have to Be marner from The.
Leafs but you do want to add good character people into your locker room that can help your team on the ice end in the locker.
Room, Okay, neil where can people go get that Great podcas asked of.
Yours you can get it.
ANYWHERE Nhl Wrap. Around we Had Jack michaels on On. Monday Jack michaels is the voice of The Edmonton oilers AND i used to DO Ehl All star games with him back in the. Day and he's a great, guy funny and really fantastic take on The oilers and on The Florida panthers and really renowned as a play by play guy In. Edmonton and so he was on our.
Show you can catch. That that's already. Dropped that's out, there but you get it On apple, platform podcast, platform On, Spotify, iHeartRadio amazon and YouTube and give us a give us a, try give us a.
Listen love.
It, Neil thank you so much for the, time. Sir enjoy the rest of the, week have a great, weekend and we will chat.
Soon, yeah and we may know The Stanley cup winner WHEN i talk to you.
Next that's, True that's. True we'll have to, see all, Right Neil. Smith The Stanley Cup final rolls on tomorrow night and we will have the game on our station right after we say good. Night tonight we have THE Nba, Finals so whether you're looking for THE Nba finals or The Stanley Cup final not, finals we have them on our. Station Ian begley is Reporting Mike woodson is in the mix to become the next coach. Again that is so. Good it's just it's too. Good all, Right we'll catch a.
Break PABLO masceooni head coach of, ourselves stops by. Too, potentially well not, potentially he will stop out of preview this weekend's. Game but before we catch that, Break ryan from The dish, professionals you know the number mine now eight oh, one four to two Four, Dish call it and save.
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Dish, well you can add former Or Utah jazz head Coach Quinn snyder to the list of coaches that The knicks thought.
They'd be able to. Interview the hubris of this.
Organization so now as a result of, uh, well as about five minutes, ago The New York knicks have tried to Interview Jason. Kidd they were not allowed, To Chris, finch, Nope Emy udoka, nope and Now Quinn snyder and every teams said, no this is an organization without a.
Plan it's very very. Clear speaking of.
Coaches Bob BLO Maashoenni wednesday, Afternoon pob's happy, Ones, sys, sir how are you happy?
Ones they spent doing?
Well bud appreciate the.
Time Brian Wilson Beach boys passes away today at the age eighty. Two first CONCERT i ever Saw Pobs Beach boys WHEN i was eleven years. Old first concert a Young PABLO mastrotdi.
Attended oh, man you're not gonna believe.
THIS i can't. Wait run dmc, okay you know, what that's. Cool that's a good. Answer that's a cool. Answer you know you can you can impress a lot of people with that. One how old were.
YOU i was in the sixth, grade, okay all?
Right and where was?
This and that was In, Phoenix, Arizona, Phoenix.
Arizona. Okay did you ever go through a beach boy's?
FACE i.
DIDN'T i always liked the, music just never never followed, them know wing they were going to come into town or if they were still touring at that.
Time, okay all, right fair, enough all.
Right before we get to your, CLUB i want to ask you about THE us men's national, team who got their heads kicked in last night and have now lost four straight. Batches they're five and five Under. Chatina we have The World cup one year, away BUT i Thought diego showed well when he was able to hinterer at. Halftime so just curious as your thoughts as to where
we're at with a Gold. Cup of, COURSE i want to know your thoughts on How diego played and where we're at with THE us men's national team one year away from The World.
Cup, yeah you, KNOW i THINK i think it's been a tough start Under, pochattino AND i think a lot of it has to do with him still trying to figure out who are the guys that he can rely. On, Right AND i think when you're adding such a big number OF mls players into the, pool there's there's going to be moments where it's it's not going to go. Well there's no, continuity there's you, KNOW i think he's still trying, to you, know fine tune the way they
want to. Play and at the international, level you just don't get the luxury of having practices every week and every, day so you got to come together. Quickly and, again because it's a relatively young, team there's a lot of guys that you know that just in self preservation, mode they're not really experienced players that are going to guide the younger. Players and SO i think that's a big part of why it's been it's been a bit of rough. Going there's a lot of figuring out to, do both
from the players and the. Staff but as far as, diego you, KNOW i, think you, know one of the things again that that make me the most proud of his growth has been his. Mindset and you, KNOW i think with attacking, players we typically say they're good when they're scoring. Goals they're good when they're making, plays creating chances given given. Assists but but again there's soccer is a very low scoring, game, Right and so what else do you bring into the table when when when when
you're not doing those? Things and And diego just brings a ton of, energy a ton of, passion a ton of, focus and a real commitment to defending. Right AND i think and and those are the conversations That i've been having with them over the last couple of. Years is just like every coach in the world can find the players that can do those. Things it's, like how are you going to separate yourself from the rest of these guys all over the, world you, know to put yourself
in the. Spotlight and, again even though he didn't score a goal the other, night just did a great job of getting around the, ball you, know clean with his decision, making you, know just as, aggressiveness and he brings this
like energy to the, team you. Know AND i think that's something that every coach in the world can hang their hat on because they, know regardless that they're scoring and, insisting which is what they're on the field to, do if nothing, else they're bringing great, energy great, pressing great great. Attitude and SO i think he's in a fantastic. Way and you, know this gold couple will be really important
for Both diggo and the. Team you, KNOW i think this is historically a tournament that THE us has done really well. IN i think they'll they will do. WELL i think these games needs to warm up, games you, know showed the coaching staff and the players of what
playing at a really high level looks. Like and you, KNOW i don't think they'll confront too many teams that are like these two teams that they, played SO i think they should be able to learn from those games and put together a good run in the tournament THAT i think they should have a good chance of.
Winning At donny on, earlier he was on the broadcast For turner last night AND i Asked dunny if he Believes diego is legitimately in the mix for a roster spot for The World, cup And dunney, said he thinks he can. Start he thinks, he you, know has the eye approach A tino and his. Staff what's your what are your thoughts on that whether or Not diego has a legitimate chance of not just making A World cup, roster but maybe actually sneaking into that eleven and upping his personal.
Pedigree, yeah you know, AGAIN i think from from a coaching, PERSPECTIVE i think you want, predictability, right, predictability and he like behaviors as a person and also behaviors as a, Player AND i Think diego comes to every game he, Plays you're you're going to get a ten out of ten, effort at ten out of, ten, commitment at ten out of, ten.
Attitude AND i think when when you're kind of looking at the roster at the pool of, players you, know you have some attackers that have a lot of goals but currently, don't but they don't necessarily bring the energy to the. Team SO i agree With, gunny you, KNOW i Think diego has a legitimate, chance BUT i think starting for that team has a lot to do with form going into the tournament as. Well so there's a lot of other players that can, potentially you, know take
a spot or. Two but one THING i think you can't do is leave a player Like Diego luna off that national team because he's a spark when he comes in and he's a great player when he. Starts SO i think he's putting himself in a really good position to be a part of the twenty twenty.
Sixteen over the past twenty four hours or. So and for our listeners, Perspective pablo played In World cup for THE us men's national.
Team did you plan in two? Yep, okay very, nice two thousand and.
Six that's, right that's. Right so we've heard from some former teammates of. Yours we've heard From Landon, Donovan we've heard From Clint, dempsey and then After Alexi lalas was done giving his take on tariffs in The Southern, order we also heard him criticize some some players who decided
not to show up for This Gold cup. Run and you, know it's interesting because The Gold, cup of, course is much much different than The World, cup and in years past it is known as kind of this platform for players that aren't necessarily among the first choice players for The World cup to show what they can. Do and it was A World cup appearance From Kyle beckerman And Nikki romando back in the day that kind of was
a conduit for Their World cup. Experiences do you share the sentiment that players Like weston McKinney And Christen polisic AND i Think tyler was, hurt but a lot you, know maybe six or seven of the potential starters for The World cup, team and maybe eleven or twelve of the potential eight team for The World cup team are not playing in The Gold. Cup do you believe they should be as we are literally one year away from The World cup in our.
Region, YEAH i, mean you, KNOW i could.
SEE i could see both. Sides spence and one these players In europe have ruling. Schedules and, again if if they if they compete in this and they don't have a break right because right now is there is their break between, seasons then they're then they're probably putting themselves at risk from an injury. PERSPECTIVE i also understand the fans perspective and ex player's perspective that, listen we're a year,
away we still don't know what we. Have how are you not a part of this, group forming the, identity the core base of this team that's going to compete on our home soil in a year's, Time, Right SO i understand, both AND i think the truth is somewhere in between those two. Things AND i don't know where they're at. PHYSICALLY i don't know if they're. Shot you, know there's a lot of things that we don't. Know
so it's easy. There you, know it's easy to kind of sit at the thirty thousand feet level and say they, should but obviously we don't know the details as to the wise and so from a you, know from a player, PERSPECTIVE i can only imagine that they're just spent right and they don't feel like one it's going to be conducive to the next run in because their season next year is going to just as important to them making the national team and actually playing at a really high
level because the expectation is that what the, McKinney you, know Polisice H, moussa these guys are aren't playing at an extremely high level if we're going to have a chance to make a great run of the. Tournament so, uh you, know, uh It's i'd be cautious to say one way or the, other AND i BUT i agree with both. CAMPS i agree with both camps That i've been in kind of both, camps and so it's it's
not an easy. One but but what it does do AND i always look at the silver lining and, say, well it gives an opportunity for guys Like, diego guys LIKE ms Players Brian white that are doing well to show their, goods you, know in the absence of these other, Guys and so the onus is on now these players that are in camp to show real well and win
and win the. Tournament so now you, start you, know putting you, know seeds of you, know putting seeds in the coach's minds as That i'm capable of, playing and all of a, sudden the pool becomes more competitive versus just having six or seven players that are.
Locks is it a commentary on our overall depth and talent pool that without our best five or six players we look so?
Bad is?
That is that a commentary that maybe The diego was? GREAT i want to be, clear AND i think he's got a bright. Future BUT i don't know if it's an indictment ON. MLS i don't want to go. There but what does it say to you about our talent pool that when our top shelf guys aren't in, there we seem to look so.
Lost that's a great.
QUESTION i think it's multi faceting the one Thing i'll point to AND i think it's a real, thing and and pro and pro soccer really and that's team's a part of that as. Well is the the with the modern game because it's become so so much more physically. Demanding the thought, is we want younger, players, Right we want younger, players which is great because they'll do a
lot of things that older players. Won't but what they don't have is the experience to kind of lead and the experience to help these players that are coming into this. Camp and SO i think that that has been an issue with the national. Team and you can do it with young. Players it's not that you, can't but they have to be special players that are willing, to you.
Know AND i Think Tyler adams is a good. EXAMPLE i think he's the, leader you, KNOW i think he leads by, example but he's also very you, know he communicates really well and he. Organizes but but you, KNOW i look back at our teams WHEN i was, playing AND i always had guys that were seven eight years older THAN i was on the field and, oftentimes especially when when bullets started flying and we were under it a little, bit they were the ones that helped organize the.
Team it wasn't the. Coach the coach has no connection to the game when it's going, on, right he sets the plan in, motion AND i just deal with our national. Team we lack a little bit of that experience that can guide these, guys and so IT'S i don't think it's so much of you, know the talent That i'm talking about is more about. Experience and so the younger players can look up in times of duress and see the guy is, calm and hear him, communicating and hear him don't worry about.
It we're going to handle.
This whereas if you have a lot of inexperience on the, field oftentimes you, know they're they're they're they're under a lot of, pressure and they're in more self preservation mode as opposed, to you, know solving the problem, right and they're acting more as individuals as opposed to a.
Collective and, so.
You, KNOW i think that we do have a group that has A World cup, experience and now the onus is on on those. Guys, polisage. Mckinne you, Know, moosa these guys that did well in twenty twenty two to really show up in twenty twenty six and and and be not only great players but also leaders and mentors for the rest of the.
Group, okay to your one more thing, here because to your point about the coaching.
Stuff it's a really good.
ONE i don't feel like soccer coaches more so than any other, sport any any any other sport you call it time, out any other sport that plays over get over. Here AND i know that you and your assistants are in communication with players as are running by you or, whatever but it just feels like once the game, starts soccer coaches soccer managers are just kind of. Spectators AND i know that that's not entirely, true BUT i know
you get my. Point and, ultimately when it comes to what we've done with THE us men's national, team you, know even moving on from a guy Like Bob bradley and then it Was jurgen and then it Was greg and now it's.
Poach.
Uh and you, know there's a lot of noise About pochettino and whether or not he's the. Guy i'm, like, dude you moved on from the guy that could have been the. Guy it can't always be the, coach but it's hard to cut players and move on from.
Players what's what's.
Fair to say about the early returns From pochettino after ten and does it change the way people should look at the job That greg did before he was let.
Go.
Yeah, AGAIN i mean we've talked about this. Oftentimes you, know the coaches is is always going to be the guy that flicked at as when when there's issues that that's that's the. Problem and and, again as AS i continue my coaching, journey the most important thing for me is is a group of players that have a requisite amount of experience to lead. Themselves so if you go all young guys in a game where like you, said coaches cannot call time, out then you're left to the
whims of their, experience. Right but when teams have six experienced players that hold themselves accountable and then bring a lot into young, guys now you've created an environment where you have coaches on the. Field right, NOW i think that's different from other sports where you can have just, talent and talent will see you through because now the coach can call a, player call a time, out and
do these different. Things we don't have that, luxury and so what we rely on is, one we have a leadership, group, right and a lot of these a lot of the guys in our leadership group AT rsl have two three years of, experience. Right and then there's a couple others
that have a lot. More BUT i just think that the dynamic of the team that must have a requisite number of players with tremendous experience to be able to calm the game down when a, technic speed it, up when it's, law when there's roles in the, game you, know like get the guys dialed in on set pieces where we're at times you feel like it's a time to, rest but it's really a time to be, focused you.
Know so we go through all that in, training but you can imagine when bullets start, flying it's not we can't stop the, session we can't stop the, game call a time out and be, like, guys this is a really epulleant. Moment SO i think the makeup of the team has to be so that you have coaches on the. Field if, not then then just you're oftentimes flipping the coin as to how they're going to. Respond and again
that's how players gain. Experience and we talk about, it this is a. Moment what do you think about this moment from a management, Perspective, oh we could have done this, differently, Right so now it might take six or seven more of those moments for them to finally, understand and then it might take six or seven of those moments for them to be able to communicate with the teammate without feeling Like i'm being hard on my. Teammates SO i think that's been the toughest. Thing and so With, poach,
again for, me it's early. Days he's trying to figure out exactly the best way to go about it with the team, tactically from from a mentality standpoint as, well and then on top of, that he's trying to figure out the players that are going to be able to help, him you, know you, know see out his ideas and his style of. Play So i'd Be i'd be real cautious because AGAIN i Think greg did a really good.
Job it did a really good. Job and everyone and everyone always thinks that The grats is always green over someone, else and it's the truth, is it's the same players and depending on where there, are where they're at in their soccer, journey will dictate whether or not you have leaders on the field that can that can carry out the.
Plan wouldn't it just be more prudent to find the, guy believe in the, guy and ride with the guy and give them.
Time that that that would be the that would be the sensible way of looking at. It BUT i think in pro sports, again like and and And i'll say pro sports in a in a social media, world there's just no. Time there's just there's just no. What you, know everyone wants to plan an orange, tree a seed of an orange, tree and then recruit the next. Day and it's, like that's just not how nature. Works but we're bucking the nature trend and just demanding that things.
Go they go great from the, start but but there's gonna be a big learning. Curve and, again this Is potatino's first gig as a as an international, manager and that's very unique because you don't have the building blocks to be, Like, okay this is how we, play and we can train this for the next.
Month you got.
Camp, set you have two training, sessions and then you have a, game and then you have a training, session then you have another, game and it's like there's there's no. Time and that's WHY i go back to this experience, thing because those guys know how to conduct themselves in a way where like they can grasp tactical concepts really easily because they've seen a million different coaches in their careers and they can apply in real.
Time do you Know Alexi lallas at?
ALL i?
Do is he as unpleasant of a person as he? Seems you?
KNOW i think when he wants TO, tv he really you, know like he has this bad guy image these you, know and any portrays THAT i think on THE. TV i don't think that's genuinely who he. IS i think he does speak his, mind but but my experiences with him as a player are different from WHAT i think you see on THE.
Tv, okay all, right fair, enough we Don't we don't have to stay in the. Space it's getting uncomfortable. Already so let's move over to your, Team. Pablo since, uh since you AND i last, spoke you hit the road for a couple of, matches And Jason christ hopped on the show prior to you guys leaving and informed us That diogo was being left off the trip due to disciplinary. Reasons SO i have a two part. Question can you
shed any light on that? Decision and have you been pleased with his response since you guys decided to leave him?
Home, yeah you, KNOW i think AND i talked about this a couple of days, ago and AND i think just given where we were at as a, team there's a there's a huge sense of, urgency, right And dugo had been out for eight or nine days with a with a heal, injury and so it was his first day back and and we had to the next, day we were traveling To, austin and and so he was in a different mode than than the rest of the, group, Right AND i think that wasn't taken into account that
he'd been out for eight days and had to get up to. Speed you, know the expectation was that he'd be pick up right where he left, off and that's not real. Either SO i think a lot got misconstrued with the urgency of the group and what we needed to do and where he was coming off of his. Injury SO i think that was, that you, know that was a. Situation and and so since, then his response
has been. Fantastic he's been he's been great in, training really focused doing just doing a lot of great things and. Training SO i feel very. Optimistic and then obviously With diggle out this, weekend uh he'll probably play on the left side coming in where's he's the most. Comfortable and you, KNOW i look forward to a very good performance this.
Weekend good to.
Hear good to, hear because you need, him, man you need him now more than.
Ever maybe who else will you rely on in the attack With diego? Away So diego will be on the. Left who else are we going to see in the?
Attack, yeah we'll more likely See Johnny russell playing on the. Right and again another player that hadn't had a, preseason been six months out and every training session he just gets brought to sharper and. Sharper his his fitness levels have gone up incredibly in the last you, know three, weeks and he's putting in a lot of work and his qualities kind of speaks for. Itself you, know he's been scoring a lot of goals in, training which is
which is something that we've been sorely. Missing so really excited to See johnny and then you, Know William. Gozo more likely we'll shore up the rest of the front.
Line as far as the rest of the, GROUP i know you have been banged, up but it's been a minute since your last. Match have you been able to utilize the space to get everybody ready to get ready to go in?
Healthy, Yeah, no it's it's been. Great you, KNOW i think it's it was a tough slog the first part of the. Season but, again where WHERE i really leaned into is the belief and and the way the WAY I i see belief is in the in the effort
and the commitment and. Training, Right so we had we had a week where we didn't have a, game and we had three training sessions and those are really hard as a player to get up for because there's nothing at the end of, it, right and and just like the, LEVEL i, mean there's a couple you, know scuffs in, there there's a couple of bus stops and guys that are really compete and really want to want to turn things. Around and so for, me, LIKE i feel so proud
of this. Group whilst we haven't been able to score, goals it's not from a lack of, trying and it's not not from a lack of creating really good. Opportunities it's just that final piece which at times takes you, know a bit of, instinct a bit of, luck a bit of. Fortune but the way they've applied themselves and you, know in the last two weeks has been, fantastic and So i'm really looking forward to a spirited performance this weekend against these.
See only two matches this month based off of these tough sledding and you, know lack of health and. Such do you view that as a good thing or do you view that as something you wish was a little bit different so you can maybe go get some more.
Points, yeah, no you, KNOW i really don't spend too much time on things that are beyond my. Control you, KNOW i think you, Know dom won't be, Available loota won't be, available and those are two guys that have been playing playing really well the last few. Games so it could be is a good thing and bad, thing who.
Knows but what it is is an opportunity for other guys to chip, in you, know stake acclaim in a, position make it competitive so that when everyone gets, back we have a team that's that's even stronger than they than we were when when those guys left the.
Group so.
If we have two, matches we got to take them on the right way and make sure that you, know we have fifteen points typically forty five, points we'll see you into the. Playoffs that means we need to win ten games in the second part of the. Season so ten of our steps seen games are at, home, right and this is this is my pitch to the. Group this is so it's black and white. Here we need ten. Games we need to win ten, games right and we have we Have we've let ourselves down at home and you,
know there's been some crazy things that have. Happened, however that we can control our own destiny, here and so our focus is on winning ten. Games we have ten at. Home those are ten great games to shoot at and uh and then if obviously if we drop any, points we got to make them up away from. Home and so we have seven games to do. That even though it hasn't worked out and the task might be a bit,
DAUNTING i believe that we have the. Spirit and then obviously we have another window where we can, hopefully you, know add some add some different players into the roster to hopefully bolster a team that's in really good.
Form all, right last thing That i'll set you.
LOSE i appreciate the thirty thousand foot, view AND i like it through that prism of understanding what the math looks. Like but it does feel Like saturday is bigger than most regular season matches as it is getting late. Early is there any extra added, emphasis extra added.
Weight to go get three On.
Saturday juxtaposed to what you said about the macro, Approach, yeah.
No, AGAIN i think the other the other important thing is is, like you, Know I'M i was an older, player AND i can handle pressure really really. Well it's it's not it's that was never an. Issue my thing with this group is like completely staying focused on everyone doing their. Jobs you, KNOW i think when you're in these, moments you have certain players that want to do more than and and and forget to do their own job.
Right SO i believe that if we have eleven guys that are all committed to doing their job to the best of their, abilities it'll put us in a great position to win this game at the, weekend as opposed to, saying, hey, guys we really really need this. Game we you, know and and AND i Got i'm always careful of the WAY i speak to them because, again IF i say we really really need to do, this it means they might interpret that as, OH i need to do someone
else's job. Right so just to be really clear with, them saying, listen if you're a center, back just then the right. Way if you're an a talking player make, plays and if ever in the pivot's doing a little bit of, everything and if we have everyone doing a, JOB i feel like we'll be in a good position to break the, snide start a good run of, games and hopefully find ourselves in the playoff.
Positions all, right, buddy we'll good to catch up with, you pulling for as, always good luck On.
Saturday we'll chat.
Too, thanks bench appreciate.
It Bud, Okay Pablo Mastjoni ursa with a big. One they need points, badly.
All.
RIGHT Nba Finals game three Tonight Gainsbridge Field, House, Indianapolis. Indiana it's the FIRST Nba finals game that market has seen since the year two, thousand when it Was Reggie miller and Those Indiana. Pacers Oklahoma city is a five point five point, favorite even though they're on the, road which Indicates vegas thinks there should be kind of a heavy. Favorite winner tonight will be in a definitely in an excellent. Spot eighty six percent of the time the winners Of
game three have gone on to win THE Nba. Finals, porter what's you got to tell you about where we're? AT i you, know when you look at the ninety six minutes of combined. Play okay see more or less has been the better team for ninety minutes of that. Situation you never want to say never and things like. This it still feels insurmountable to me For. Indiana but what you got to tell you about the finals, now, yeah.
Not not necessarily insurmountable in my, eyes but definitely en. Up he'll climb For for The, pacers they need a little bit of you, know balls bouncing in their. Direction they need, frankly they need phild goals shooting to be good And. SPENCE i think the big, key As i've, said you, know early in the, series and AS i thought was the deciding factor In game, two it Is
indiana's you, know backcourt. Ability Andrew, Nemhart Pascal. Siakam you go down the list with the guys you throw AT, sga you, know With Nate smith and Even haliburton at. Times if if you can knock him off his, pace if you can get him to you, know not be playing the pick and roll offense that okay see wants him getting into the, paint getting to the rim and to the free throw, line THEN i think you have a. Chance but if Shake Gilges alexander is just kind of
allowed to play his, offense his. Tempo there's just no answer For, indiana AND i don't think they really have enough in the tank the star power for o. Case he's just too. Good but ULTIMATELY i do think that's kind of the main thing you look at is their ability to kind of knock him off his, spot because he felt and looked really comfortable In game. Two kind of OPPOSITE i think of what they did to him late In game.
One New York knicks have been denied permission to speak To Jason, Kidd Chris, Finch Emi, udoka and Now Quinn, snyder oh for four their quest to find their new. COACH i can't imagine what sports talk radio is like In New york. Today smitty And, gordy you're. Free seriously wait, wait, wait hold.
On you want some?
Guys, no, no, NO i deny them permission to speak to Either smitty Or.
Gordy oh really they worked for? Us, okay, okay just add to the.
List Iike, WOODSON i really don't know how this thing's gonna. END i, MEAN i figured it at this point we would hear more about former, You Johnny bryant after he did not get The Phoenix sun's.
Job maybe they'll look in that.
Direction but just a pathetic display from an owner who has never been able to figure this thing. Out AND i think he's on the team for twenty seven years now twenty. Sixty he inherited a great situation and blew. IT i might be a little biased, there all, Right, porter time To Saga night to turn over our coverage to our friends AT Espn radio for THE Nba Finals game? Three what comes our way on A thursday edition of the radio.
Show on A thursday edition Of The, Drive Andy larson stops. By of, course we will talk some jazz, OFFSEASON Nba, finals maybe SOME rsl With andy as, WELL Nba Daily assists with our Guy Howard. Beck on A, Thursday Cam rodgers stops, by of, course On day one of THE Us, open and then we'll finish off the Show house versin c DOUBLE. A what's the latest in the college sports?
Landscape Matt? Brown basically, monthly we're checking in with, him at least during the off, season but it really just depends on court cases and what plays out on the judge. Bench that's that's when we check in With Matt.
Brown Professor Matt.
Brown if you want to learn about the business of college, athletics there's probably nobody. Better he writes a newsletter Called Extra. POINTS i utilize it almost every. Day we will say good AND i special thank you To Tom, Haberstrow Zach, Harper Brian, Dunseth Neil, smith And Pablo mash joining you for in this.
Sound you may have missed from.
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Spence check. Its it's available wherever you get your. Show, subscribe rate, reviews say nice things in the, comments give us all the stars you. Can it actually helps Reporter i'm spend saying, tonight enjoy a LITTLE Nba finals. Action it comes your way next right. HERE audespn seven hundred and ninety two ONE ffm proud to be part Of UTAH'S espn radio, network