TUE POD @SpenceChecketts on NBA Draft Lottery, Jazz No. 5 pick, round 2 playoffs + more

All right, let's get it. It is drive time on a Tuesday afternoon. It's about ten minutes fast the hour of two o'clock. It's cold today, does not feel like me. It is rainy and cloudy and chilly. It's about fifty degrees here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. As we're gonna have a couple of days of chilly weather and yeah, very I don't know, early April, late March type day, in late March type week, but as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along.

For the ride.

Spence check, it's beyond the Mike Porter Larsen behind the glass. We have a lot to do on today's show, a lot to do on today's show. Last night, quite frankly, one of the most consequential nights in pro basketball that we've seen in a long long time.

And only time will tell how this is going to play out.

So of course, the big story locally of the day today and the night last night was the Utah has falling to number five in the draft lottery. Now, as I was sitting there and we'll get in all this, we got opening tip. We've got a bunch of great guest today including a couple of guests that were live in Chicago in the room where it happened. Shout out Hamilton on a Tuesday. It's not rigged. Okay, it's just not. It's not. It sucks, but it's not rigged. So we'll

One tier with four players.

Now we're going to get into why that could be total nonsense, and we're going to try to bring some levity in, some calmness, and some optimism to the market today after a night that felt like a gut punch, there's no other way around it. I guess Ryan Smith on a run and let out a primal scream as the sun was rising over the Wassas Mountain.

Did you do that too, point.

Yeah, I just wanted to step in there and let you know.

So you went on a run this morning and as the sun was rising over the mountains, you also.

Let out a primal roar every morning though.

That's the difference between Ryan and I.

Okay, so Porter does that every day, but apparently Ryan letting out some seam.

Look, we'll get into it. We'll talk about some players the Jazz could look at.

We'll talk about what this could mean for the NBA big picture. So if you're Adam Silver, you're actually pretty pleased with how this went down, because everybody is talking about your league today. So we'll get into it, and then of course we will talk about and look, I'm a Knicks fan. That was probably the biggest win that the New York Knicks have had in twenty five years. Mike Breen set it himself on the broadcast, but I got a say, man, I love Jason Tatum.

I don't care who he plays for, and that sucks.

We're waiting word on what the MRI will reveal, and I'm not one of those guys that pretends on a doctor on air, so I'm not even gonna go there. I think we all know what it looked like, and the fear is out there that this could be pretty catastrophic. So we'll get to it. We'll talk about some of the games that went down last night. We'll talk about what could go down tonight.

We'll preview tonight's action.

Anthony Edwards really woke up in the second half and the Warriors looked like they're cooked.

There is a.

Word out of Golden State that they're going to try to get Steph back for Game five in Minneapolis.

To hope, hopefully get back excuse me, hopefully.

Get that back down to Golden State to give them a chance. But thirteen teams in the history of pro basketball have come back from a three to one.

Deficit, so it looks like Golden State's cooked. I'm not ready to say the nixt A're gonna win the series.

I'll tell you why a little bit later on, and tonight we'll see if the Calves can.

Get back into it.

Donovan Mitchell is a game time decision. The Pacers are going to try to put away the Calves a Rocket Arena in Cleveland, Ohio, and then what should be a knockdown, draft out heavyweight NBA matchup. The Denver Nuggets are in Oklahoma City at Pecon to take on the OKAC Thunder. So we'll get to some of some of the NBA storylines, and yeah, of course we'll talk some draft.

We'll talk some big picture of jazz and.

What could uh you know, what it could mean, and we'll we'll talk about, you know, basically, what the mocks look like and what most people believe the jazz is going to do at number five. So a lot to do on a chaotic Tuesday afternoon edition of the program.

Our first guest.

Right out of the gates is going to be Andy Larson, who covers the Utah Jazz for.

The Salt Lake Tribune.

Andy was in the Sacred Walls in Chicago where the NBA Draft lottery was held.

So we'll see what Andy.

Has to say about all these accusations about script writing in the NBA. How dare you NBA basketball? We'll get Andy's take, and then Tim McMahon stops by. Of course, Tim covers the jazz well. He covers the jazz. Sometimes hasn't covered the jaz as much as of late, but ver there's the Mavericks decent data. Talk to him about the Mavericks who won the NBA draft lottery depot a one point eight percent chance of doing so. Richard Smith

So we'll bring in Smitty today.

Then our buddy A Lemeteo, who I interview a couple of times a year when the All polycamp is going on. So we have some college football for you guys later on.

As well.

Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are now Hall of Fame eligible. There's a piece of news I was not expecting today, as Major League Baseball's lifted the band.

Of course, both those gentlemen are no longer with us. Rest in peace.

So Andy Larson, Tim McMahon, Richard Smith, A lemitel Me Spence check at all of you, the great listeners, and that guy Porter Larson who every morning goes on a run and as the sun is rising over the Wassatch Mountains, let's out I primal scream. Tell me, young man, how did you digest the NBA Draft lottery last night?

I don't know that I'm up at sunset or sun rise enough to do that, but yeah, man, it's it's It's gotta be a gut punch if you're a jazz fan. Uh, just a visceral reaction online. I was I was walking home. We had just hung up and I stopped at I sick frets that the little deli.

It's awesome.

I grabbed a little sandwich and actually it took it took a minute. So I ended up watching the beginning of the lottery at the deli, thinking I'd get home in time for the the Jazz pick. Well it didn't take long, and I just thought to myself, Man, that has got to be a real gut punch if you're a fan who is kind of hinged, your expectations, your timeline, everything about this rebuild process onto having a top pick in this year's NBA draft, and listen, man, that's that's

And the script is completely flipped.

So it's interesting to see, like you I you know, I'm a I'm a guy.

I'm open to conspiracies. Let's be clear.

I'm open to them, but I need in order to in order for a conspiracy, I needed to have just a little bit of lakes. I need some little bit of like actual evidence, and then we can go with it. This is ping pong balls that don't some some that sometimes don't go your way. And man, they did not last night.

No they didn't.

So we'll get into it. We'll talk to our guests about it. We got three really good NBA guests on the show today. Then we'll do some college football later on. Andy Larson will join us right out of the gates, but on a Tuesday prior to Andy hopping by courtesy of our friends at Prize Picks, It is time now for your opening tip.

Welcome to the Drive with Spence check its on Utah's number one Sports talk now into the studios of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by Prize Picks. Use the code ESPN seven hundred and run your game with Prize Picks.

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That kind of feels low.

I think the two MVP candidates are gonna go out of tonight and it should be a fun game between Oklahoma City and the Denver Nuggets.

All right, last night, say good night.

A little bit early because we were fortunate enough to have the NBA Draft Lottery on our radio station just after five o'clock, So sign off air, grab the dog, we rush home, and I'm able to sit down just in time to watch Mark Tatum walk to the podium to kind of break the news to NBA fans about

I'm not denying that at all.

And the fact that the Dallas Mavericks moved off of Lukadancic and are simply just getting the next superstar in their back pocket without ever really even making the attempt to be in the right spot to do that, I understand why that doesn't land well, certainly with Jazz fans or Wizard fans or Hornets fans. The three teams are the best chance of moving up to grab number one overall.

Suddenly it's rigged. It is a lottery, and the.

Jazz had a fourteen percent chance of getting the number one overall pick. Let's be real, that's not a great percentage. Because what Adam Silver decided to do, love it or hate it, And this is what I tend to have a little bit of an issue of the way the league has handled this. In twenty nineteen, Adam Silver in the league office decided to flatten the lottery odds. Okay, so now we have six different data points and examples

Not one time. Last year the.

Hawks three point three percent chance of getting number one they did. Where were you last year crying a foul because it was Atlanta and it was Zachary Reschache, Like, it doesn't change the dynamic.

That it's a lottery. Have you ever played the lottery?

Drive across the border to Idaho or whatever, you drop one hundred bucks on some tickets and you lose. Do you claim it's rigged or do you understand the risk that you're taking? I mean, the reaction today is kind of like you hear all those office pools where a bunch of people in the same office chip in a couple hundred bucks to buy a bunch of lottery tickets, and it's like, you know, let's say you and a

And your richest friend is the one who wins the lottery?

Is it rigged or did the right numbers just pop up randomly because that's the way lotteries work, Like we will ackham raiser this thing today. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. And the bottom line is the wrong ping pong balls popped up for the Jazz last night and the right ping pong balls.

Popped up for the Dallas Mavericks. Is that uncomfortable? Yeah? For sure? Does it suck? It does?

And I was pulling for the Jazz to grab at least number two, if not number one overall, to get Cooper Flagger, Dylan Harper and jump start this thing because if we're honest, it's been three years of mediocrity at best and pathetic play at times at worse, and it makes it really hard to be engaged to give a rip about what they're doing. But the message Adam Silver sent the league lover Hated is we don't want you

We don't want you to do that.

So we're not gonna do what the NFL does and simply reverse it inverse standings to reward the worst team. We're not going to do that, because we want you to make the best effort possible, put your best foot forward to try to build the best team you can. It's also why they implemented the second apron and a more punitive salary tax penalty for big spenders, so you

They have new ownership, they have a roster.

That's why the expensive and no matter how much money you have, we learned what scares billionaires who own NBA teams, punitive financial penalties for paying too much money to keep your roster together. So Adam Silver did this thing where he's like, all right, we're not going to simply reward the worst teams for trying to lose. We're not gonna do that, and we're actually gonna make it harder for the worst teams to move up.

They did that in twenty nineteen. We have six years of drafts.

Now zero times has the worst team in pro basketball received the number one overall pick. On the other side, he said, we're also going to make it harder for owners to keep their great teams together because we're going to make the financial penalties more punitive. We've already seen the Denver Nuggets move off good players a couple of

We don't believe that that is the right move.

As far as having integrity in your endeavor and treating the league in the game the right way. We want you as a front office to put your best foot forward and try to win. Now, there are complications in trying to do that in Salt Lake juxtaposed to South Beach or LA. So we need to be honest about that.

My gosh look on her face.

After Mark Tatum reveals that the Jazz fall to five, which was the lowest possible even though it was the highest possible scenario based on the percentages, the Jazz could not fall further than five.

That was their floor.

But again, Washington falls to six, Charlotte falls, and you know, Dallas is rewarded again, which makes it really uncomfortable. And I can't really refute any of that, but I'll end with this. For all the hey, my guy didn't win the election, so it was stolen crowd. For all the hey, my team didn't get the number one pick, so it's

But no, it's not New York, LA, Chicago, Miami.

They have not gift wrapped every big star to bigger markets. The San Antonio Spurs literally had a dynasty that caused TV ratings to go into the tank. When Zion Williamson, who if he would ever stay healthy consistently, is one of those dudes. When he was coming out of Duke the team with the best chance at the number one overall pick was the New York Knicks.

It went to the New Orleans Pelicans.

So for every data point you can throw at me about Hey, New Orleans gets the number one pick.

After the Chris.

Paul debacle, Hey Cleveland gets the number one pick after Lebron leaves Wow, Nico Harrison trades Luka Doncic and they get Cooper Flagg to step in. For every one of those you can throw at me, I can throw twenty of them back at you. To refute your point that this thing is rigged. The bottom line is we live in a society now. When results don't go your way, you cry that it was stolen, you cry that it was rigged. No, that's just life, and especially when it's

The fifth pick in draft will be made by the Utah Jazz. The number one pick in the twenty five NBA Draft goes to the Dallas Mavericks.

You're just gonna rub it in, aren't you? All day? You're just gonna misbehave and rub it in all day, aren't you.

I don't know. I don't know what to do. I know it hurts, but we have to talk it out. I guess we get out now.

We do.

We do and it does hurt, but you know, it's the reality of how this process works.

Love it or not.

Whether or not you think it should be changed, certainly a different conversation. But our first guest on a Tuesday afternoon was in the.

Room where it happened.

Shout out Hamilton, Andy Larson, Salid tribute Andy, Happy Tuesday, buddy.

How are we doing? Hello? Andy? Hello? Andy? What's going on with Andy?

Can you hear me?

Hey?

Hi Andy?

How are you sorry about that? Yeah?

Well how about you?

I'm well? So are you still in Chicago?

I am? Yeah?

You are all being here.

They do the media availability tomorrow with all the all the players here at the combine, so we'll get the chance to talk to everyone kind of in the jazz is range along with a feu jake or demon and then head back Thursday.

All right, Andy, So I'm just gonna ask you to respond to folks, and we just simply live in a time where if a result doesn't go your way, or if you don't understand why something is the way it is, the easy thing to do is yell that it's rigged or it was stolen or it was taken from you. And the reality is where the jazz landed last night was the most you know, the chances were the highest

Yeah, Look, I was stunned that that was as much of the reaction as it was that, you know, when I pulled my followers yesterday on Twitter that seventy six present to respond and said that they felt that the lottery is rigged, and I, I don't know me Like, look I was, I was in the room. You can see the ping pong ball blow around until one gets sucked up and then they call the number and then you know there are four that a combination of four

That's why they call it a lottery.

And you know, for all of the for every piece of if I don't know if you want to call a proof or maybe just an example that feels a little bit uncomfortable, I can throw twenty examples back at you to anicay, this thing is not rigged and it's just how lotteries work. Now, I understand the disappointment, and honestly, Andy,

Do you like the way that the current lottery is set up?

Yeah? And I mean then didn't last night work out? Because the Jazz tanked harder and more blatantly and more anti competitively and less honorably than any other team in the NBA this year and potentially like honestly in league history. Like John Collins played forty games this season and was healthy all year long, right like that, it's crazy. You had Walker Kessler missing games as a twenty three year old due to rest when there were days off in

Right?

Like, is the should the priority be parody to some extent that you can cycle these teams out of the bottom, get them higher into contention windows more quickly, and then all of a sudden, Okay, it doesn't make any sense to flatten the lottery odds like they did in twenty nineteen. So I think, to me, honestly, that probably should be

Well, and you know, ultimately people around here today don't want to hear this. But for all the pushback and for all the flak that the NBA is take today and that Adam Silver is taking today. Last night was an absolute win for them because it's going to make the off season incredibly interesting for a league that loses a ton of its market share to Pro football quite frankly, in just a.

Matter of you know, five or six weeks.

Last night was an absolute win for the NBA based on what they try to accomplish by flattening those odds in twenty nineteen. It's going to bring attention, intrigue, probably gonna bring a lot of moves, probably going to bring some trades, maybe even some big time trades on Draft night. So folks don't want to hear that today because what it was in Andy was a win for the Jazz.

And that's the reality. So what's next? What do they do? What do the Jazz do? What are the next steps?

Yeah, I mean you draft the best player who can at number five, and look, I think there are probably three guys with like some some kind of star upside at number five. I don't think like it's a hopeless position to be and I think you'd much rather be the Jazz at number five than the Wizards at number six. And then look, you can sell yourself on the Hey, you can always trade for Trey Young, you can always trade for Zion Williamson, and the Jazz have draft assets

Stay the course all right.

So I felt so bad for Ashley Smith, who had this look on her face after Mark Tatum revealed the envelope with the Jazz at five that she had just seen a ghost. But that's all we could see on TV you were there, you know, the reaction of the other jazz contingent, Ryan whoever else was there? What did that look and sound like? After I was revealed the Jazz were picking at five?

Yeah, so I, you know, had a lot of interaction with Justin Zannik because he was in the lottery room and we had an hour to watch the TV show after the lottery happens, but we're sequestered in that room until the TV show ends, and so yeah, I had a lot of time to get just Zenic's reaction, which his shot disappointed, you know, and you know was just kind of bewildered laster at like how unlucky they had gotten and kind of what had happened and with the

And they know that, all right, So let's dig into the number five pick.

And I suppose it depends on who you read, who you listen to.

You know, the Athletics got a couple of guys that do a really good job. Gavoni, over to ESPN, has been pretty steadfast. His belief is that there are four players in order, and I don't think he's changed his order once and he didn't change it today.

That are franchise changing pieces, of.

Course, And this is according to to Gavoni, because to your point, Andy, you can find franchise changing pieces at forty two or wherever Jokic win. And you know, I can't help but think about the draft process for Stephen Curry, who literally was a generational changer. I think he went seven, So Cooper Flag at one, and then Dylan Harper too.

We'll see what san Antonio does.

Like I said, if you're the NBA, last night was a win because there's gonna be a lot of intrigue about some of these moves. Ace Bailey at three, this is Givoni vj Edgecum at four. Then he has the Jazz taking Jeremiah Fears, a point guard out of Oklahoma. Trey Johnson, who can really shoot it from Texas, will be there. And then you get into, like I get the Jazz fan frustration. We're like, wait a second, we just lost almost seventy games and Kank Nipple might be

Got to, like look at these guys and make a firm decision for kind of myself on who's that. You know, I've watched a decent amount of film and trying to understand and you know, honestly, some of that process it's going to be talking to them tomorrow and learning more about their personalities. So like Ace Bailey right, like is a tremendous shooter. Shot forty six percent on mid range shots last year, which is awesome, Like you know, to make that many of your tough mide range shots is

No he's not.

Can like best casey be like dearon Foxy Okay, Maybe all of a sudden I can start to see it. So look, you know, this is the first top five pick. This is spin. This is a spin Justin Zanna gave yesterday. But it's true. This is the first top five picked the Jazz I've had since twenty fourteen. And you are going to get a higher caliber prospect at number five than you were at number nine or number ten when you were drafting Taylor Hendricks or Cody Williams.

So as I alluded to and talked about this off the top.

Today, as a result of how.

This went down last night, there's a tremendous possibility for a lot of movements.

A lot of players could be available.

We already know that according to Shams Giannis is open to being moved. By the way, it's now been verified Jason Tatum did rupture his achilles, so he's going to be out obviously for at least a year, and we'll see how he comes back. But you know, when you look at the situation in Boston, new ownership group, second Apron team, awesome but really expensive, and now the Tatum injury, there's a chance that some of those Celtics could be

So you got San Antonio.

Oklahoma City has to be brought up because they have a compendium of assets and a bunch of really good young players. The problem with will the Jazz get involved in any of these transactions is yes, they have the capital, but other teams have similar you know, trade capital in their back pocket. But what the other teams have that the Jazz don't is Okay, see can be like, hey, we'll give you five picks Jalen Williams and chet and whatever for Giannis. And the Jazz don't have that package.

What do you think?

I mean, I think you can move up to three in the draft realistically, if you really want to, if that's meaningful to you, I think there is that opportunity. I don't think really number two or number one is realistic.

Make a better package.

Where I do think the Jazz could if they wanted to get into it is on kind of that next tier of star. So do you want to take on Zion Williamson and his issues? Do you want to take on John Morant in his issues? Do you want to take on Trey Young in his issues?

Yeah?

I think you can have those conversations if the Celtics decide to turn it around quickly or just decide they're paying Jalen Brown too much money. Is that an option? I can see a world in which it is, And you know, I don't think he is going to demand a Gyiannis level of return. I think there are a few situations around the league, like, if you really wanted to, you could trade for Kevin Durant Mike. Now do the

Oh dear well, Andy, before I set you loose, uh, just best guess and I'll just tell you my take on this. I think next year is gonna feel a lot like this year. Uh you know, call it tanking, call it whatever you want. And I've been a proponent of this because I just don't see any other avenue to, you know, for the Jazz to acquire the type of talent they need in order to establish a cornerstone franchise, changing peace, to change.

Your trajectory, what the future could look like.

I still believe their best chance is to do this in the lottery, and I still believe their best chance is to lose and have the best chance possible of getting one of those picks. I know today is the most unpopular day to say that. I don't know what else they do. So before I set you loose, my guess is next year looks and feels a lot like this year for the Jazz.

What do you think?

Yeah, I kind of agree, And I mean the thing about the lottery being when it is is that you have a month and a week between now and the actual NBA draft. I guess six weeks to make decisions and to slow down and not react emotionally to what

Yeah, today's the most unpopular day to talk about it, But you know, I think that's the reality. All right, my guy, Well, save travels and we'll get you back on again soon.

Thanks.

Andy, all right, sounds good.

Thanks Ben.

Andy Larson covers the Utah Jazz for the Salt Lake Tribune Live on the ground in Chicago. The NBA Draft Combine is going on right now, obviously, the day after the NBA Draft Lottery, which turned out to be just a brutal gut punch for jazz fans. And we'll get back to some of this coming up in a bit. But on the other side, we'll do some college football.

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All right, Tim McMahon's gonna stop by.

Tim covers ESPN, excuse me, covers the NBA for ESPN covers the Utah Jazz, the Dallas Mavericks, among others. Good day to have Tim on the program. A little bit of breaking news. It is official Jason Tatum has ruptured as achilles tendon. He already had surgery, so the recovery process begins now.

Just to horrible news for a really, really good player who just entered his prime. Don't forget.

Richard Smith stops by live in studio for an entire hour. Smith he spent forty years with the Utah Jazz. But let's bring in my buddy, A lemon Teou who stops by to talk about the All Poly Sports camp coming up.

A Lemon happ you Tuesday, man, How you.

Doing doing fine? Thanks for having me.

Appreciate the time. Appreciate the time.

So it's kind of your time of year as we're approaching the All Poly camp. But I've been interviewing you. I don't know, I feel like once a year for a long long time. So just before our listeners are unfamiliar, tell us about it. What do you want our listeners to know from like a macro viewpoint about all poly sports.

So right now we're rated the number one contact camp in the country non institutional camps by the College Coaches of America. We're excited about that. We're going on twenty seven years, and we've had the opportunity of you know, waiting to see some great players come through and also see the elevation of high school football here in the great state of Utah.

So I'll let's get some dates and locations. When is one of the actual camps going down and where they're going to be.

Our right and Start camp will be June seventeenth, and our college prospect camp is going to be June eighteenth. Both will be held at the Lompeak Park here in Sandy.

And over the years, as you reference, the high school football scene in our states has evolved and continues to evolve with players not just you know eleven. When I was growing up and felt like all the best players went to either b Y, you were Utah. Nothing wrong with that, But now we see players going all over the country and a number of players continue to go to the NFL to play pro football.

Tell me, Alema, from your vantage point, how.

The college football Excuse me, the high school football scene in the state of Utah has grown since you kind of started doing this.

Well, I'll tell you right now, I honestly believe that the coaching here in Utah at the high school level is awesome. We got a lot of outstanding coaches who are very committed to the game and who are also have great teachers, you know. Not only that, and outside of you know, the great coaches that we have here in the state of Utah, we have outstanding traders. Guys that are taking kids I mean off season and really

So probably should be very clear.

Lema.

I know this because I'm familiar with you, but the name of the camp is all poly sports.

But you are open to everyone.

Yes, opened to everyone, inclusive of any and all. So yeah, originally started that way, but uh, you know, as the ability got bigger, and you know, we decided to make sure that everybody had the same opportunity. So uh uh you know, we've had great non pologies kids come through with the Kruger brothers. As you know, I had great careers, you know. Uh, and I see a kid very shimulary to those guys and Crew Jones. You know, he's an outstanding defensive lineman you know up in the Cash County

Give our listeners a lemma an idea of just kind of the schedule how this camp works. Uh, you know what you do in the morning, the drills and such. Coaches that are present, give it. If we've got listeners who have some some some young man who they think might benefit from your camp, what's the feel like?

What do you guys do.

Well?

But for we have three sessions, Okay, each camp has three sessions. First session, it's gonna be the helmet's only kids will come through, run through positions, specific grills with the different college coaches, and then they're gonna put him into various teams. The second session, we'll start off with some some limited contact where we're going to instill or

So so lot local college coaches, coaches from around the country checking out these kids. I wonder, Alemma, how you because we talked about the changing landscape of high school football in Utah and how it's grown. What about the landscape of college football in Utah. Somebody has been around football forever. Uh, what do you what do you make of the current state of the college game and the changes that have been implement over the past four years.

Well, you know, in a sense, man, it's uh, it's kind of level of the playing field, you know, and then I mean, you know before backs, you know, within I mean as recently as three four years ago, everybody was going to Alabama.

You know.

Now that's not the case anymore. I mean, uh, you know, the dollar has taken over the game. You know, it's unfortunate because you know, you don't have the stability of the roster. You know, from year to year. I mean ten years ago, you knew if you signed somewhere, the chances are you're gonna be there for four to five years.

So uh.

And then what I'm finding out and the word I'm getting from a lot of the college coaches that I deal with is you know, everybody is more concerned with what the NIL deal versus what kind of education can I get or how, you know, how can you develop me as a football player? Which which is?

You know.

The sad thing now is I meet every year with a lot of the college guys and a lot of the a lot of the recruiting courterinators out of convention, and this year it was basically like, we just don't have the time to develop players anymore. So we got to recruit guys that can come in. Now that means, you know, only the top tier high school players are going to be able to get a shot to get that D one scholarship, you know. So it's it's different,

So from a boat oh yeah, no, great.

Now, Now let me move over here, because from a local standpoint, you know, we're broadcasting a mile away from Ryseckles and we're the home of the Utes and have a good relationship with all the b YU guys as well. I mean, hell half of them coached here anyway. So how do you feel the Kyle and Kalani are positioned to make sure that they continue on the right path to make sure the b YU and b YU and Utah football can can keep having success.

You know, I know this. They're they're only going to have access to good players. The problem isn't within BYU or or Utah itself, is the outside guys that are run interference, you know, with their best players. You know, there's you know, there are predators out there that are going to go after their best players. And that to me is probably going to be the hardest thing to do for our local schools is how do you keep

Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's kind of where my head is at.

I mean because as you know, Kyle's best teams, certainly if you go back to Sugar Bowl, go back to back twelve championships, like you know, the deal, like the ethos is, uh, we will develop you and you know, if you're not ready to play right out of the gates, give us some time, put in the work, do what we ask you to do, and then when you're a third, fourth, fifth year guy, you'll be ready to roll, and so will we.

I mean that's kind of all he's been. The deal.

Is that type of model sustainable in modern day college football?

Geez? I? And honestly, I don't like the direction that the college football is taken, and it's not. I don't think it's sustainable, you know, in my opinion, you know, just because you can't, I mean, you can't. You can't if you can't keep your best players, you know, how do you expect to be good year in the year out?

You know.

So there's so many variables that are going to attack the game. I think it really to me, it handcuffs the coaches, you know, on how they can do their job. You know, they're they're expected to go out and recruit the best players they possibly can. You're a saying, you know, try to help these guys create these nil deals and then keep them happy. I mean, but then when you try to do that, shoot, what happens to the plan be guys that are in your backup guys, you know,

Tell me, if you've noticed, as you're working with these young players, a difference in the attitude, a difference in the approach of both the players and I'll say the parents around them or the groups around them, now that there's so much money at stake, Alemma, and money immediately, not money in four or five years when they maybe they make the NFL. Now that these young men can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more as an eighteen year old freshman.

Have you noticed a change in kind of.

The attitude of the young kids and the people around them that you work with every year?

Well, I'm telling you right now, the difference is this. I mean, when I was sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, I was just I was just happy to be hanging out with my guys, playing ball in the park, you know, just doing fun things.

You know.

Now, hey, guys at fifteen aren't getting financial planners, you know, I mean, they're you know, I mean, if you're that good of a player, now you're gonna have to start, you know, looking for the right kind of legal advice, the right kind of financial planner. People are starting to prep you for the next you know, six years of your life, you know, I mean, and so which in turn, I mean, parents are different now too. Parents all feel like you know that, hey, you know, my kid's going

So if you had any advice, if we have parents listening to the show who have a young promising football player, what advice would you give them?

If you're as good as if the kids as good as as as everybody says he is he has, he would be okay where he's at. You know, he's They're gonna find them the way recruiting is right now, and they find those guys they you know, you know, each each division won or pe for school. They got paid a lot of money just to find the best players out there. So I mean, be careful not to you not to just jump and run, you know. I mean,

And do it.

It's not then reach reach out to other services that you have trust in and see if they can help you.

All right, I'm up for so you lose one more time all poly Sports camp. Tell us the dates, tell us the location, all the good stuff you want our listeners to know.

The Rising Star Camp is going to be June seventeenth. Now, the one unique thing about the Writing Star Camp, going back to the recruiting conversation, is right now, we got to target these kids as every as we possibly can. So we hope to identify some of the top players in the country in the grade seven, eight to nine at this year's camp. So, but that's it's going to be June seventeenth. June eighteenth is our college prospect camp.

So there you go.

Well you go, Thank you, my friend. I appreciate the time. Best of luck and reach out if you need.

Okay, thank you, have a great date.

All right?

Let me tell the website is allpolysports dot com. That's all polysports dot com. As you as an Alemma reference the dates. Rising Stars camp will be June seventeenth at Lone Peak Park in Sandy and then the College Prospects twenty twenty five camp the next day at June twenty eighth, also at Lone Peak Park.

You get deals with early registration. Oh you know what that has ended. Nevermind, you still get.

Deals right now as opposed to just walking up the day of the camp.

So check it out.

All polysports dot com is the website where you can get all the information.

All right.

Tim McMahon is going to join us coming up next. Tim just released a piece on the Dallas Mavericks. According to Tim sources, and Tim would know, Dallas will not be trading the number one overall pick and they are going to draft themselves a young man named Cooper flag Elema stop spot today courtesy of our friends at the Daybreak Home and Gardens Show, which coming up May the sixteenth through the eighteenth. It's the Ballpark at America First Square one one one one one. That's a great address.

You can get your tickets now.

It's gonna be the most exciting, fun educational home show ever in Daybreak. Get tickets and information at the Best homeshow dot Com, sponsored by our friends at Bullfrog Spot's.

Next on the drive, Tim McMahon dropping dimes for your NBA Daily assists.

Van McMahon, Vancman that is ding old Land, Texas flood tickets. Mud He's and Manvan McMahon, Van mcman The man.

Man.

All right, Richard Smith about a half hour from now. Smith, he spent forty years with Utah Jazz front office. He's already here and he is about to take me to task for my opinion last year that the Jazz were doing the right thing tanking for their lottery luck.

But our next guest, you know.

Him, you love him, timmick Man, Tuesday afternoon. All right, Tim, the whole thing is rigged. The whole thing is fixed. The Jazz did the right thing. Yeah, they fell to five.

How are you, buddy, party partner. I know it's a gloomy day in Salt Lake City. I'm in Oklahoma City. It didn't work out the way they wanted to either, with the Philly Pick moving up into the top three, So Dotter Oak get their hands number seventh. My hometown's excited though they liked the way that lottery worked out. Old mav has just falling ass backwards into the number one overall pick. After months after dinner traded generational talent,

It is literally rainy and like forty eight degrees, so it is cloudy, it is cold. It is perfect for what today has brought with our local basketball fans.

But tim, let me, I mean, look, obviously I'm being facetious.

You know, what happened last night, ironically was the most likely outcome for the Jazz about a forty eight percent chance to get that number five pick. It's called a lottery for a reason. But of course it is kind of a ride of passage for an NBA fan base that feels like they've been screwed to scream foul. So for Jazz fans that believe the fixes in what do you have to say?

I mean, I'm not going to get into conspiracy theory stuff. I believe there are two Salt Lake City based reporters that were in the lottery drawing room. I would invite you to read the coverage of Andy B. Larson and Sarah Todd. I mean, I'm pretty sure if there was a conspiracy that would have screwed the Utah Jazz, I'm pretty sure they would have covered it in you know, in their reporting. It was just what a storyline, what an insane outcome, and what a bummer for the Jazz fans.

Yeah, Nandy was our guest earlier on the on the show, and to your point, he was in the room and talk to Justin Zannak. I thought, Xana Candle it really well and like I said, when you look at the odds, what happened last night was the most likely outcome. So before we move over to the bigger story, which is what it means for the MAVs and potentially some player

I'm gonna look. Obviously number one is clear cut, far and away the easiest decision in this draft. There's a generational talent there. I think number two seems to be pretty concrete, and then things get a leal, it gets to be more in the eye of the beholder. There have been a lot of great players stick for the fifth overall pick. There have been a lot of guys who didn't end up having star caliber careers. You know,

Oh man, Yes he was Tim, Thanks for bringing that up last time. The Jazz pick five.

It was Dante Hey, so it's the guy who's got an ownership shared. Dwyane Wade brooked out pretty well for the Miami Heat, so you know, it's kind of there's a wide spectrum there.

Oh, for sure. Charles Barkley was the number five pick. Look, you can get value at five. I mean, hell yeo, GI's forty two. We could keep going down the list, Like while it feels like chicken little, this guy is falling.

You never know how this stuff is going to play out.

So let me ask you one more Jazz question before we move on, because you hear a lot of reports and Shams himself was on television yesterday saying he is hearing the Jazz are going to be very active and aggressive even if they didn't get one or two, they're going to try to move up. And you're reporting the MAVs have no interest in trading one, and I completely

Well, I think this all season is going to first have to there's gonna be a lot of internal discussions because clearly they picked a route this year and took a risk this year that did not have the intended reward, did not come close to the intended reward, And then I think, you know, they're really going to have to have some serious discussions debate whatever it may be about whether it is a rational, irrational and and smart approach to basically repeat to to kind of run it back

Yeah they are. Yeah they are.

And we'll see what sort of magic Danny and jay Z can execute and hopefully give this thing turned around prior to twenty forty five, because that's the way everybody feels around here. But of course, Tim, the one team that could have grabbed number one to lead the entire country to scream foul was the team that grabbed number one with the Dallas Mavericks. So of course you know

A day later, I just started cracking up, to be honest with you, I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. And you know, I've heard some people say, oh, is this does this prove that Nigol Harrison made the right decision on like, folks, what this does is bailed out the franchise from what appeared to be a disastrous trade. And when they made that trade, the plan wasn't like, well, man,

And as you reported, you know, because it was interesting, Like I listened to your guy Wendy last night and then watch some stuff on ESPN today and there's a lot of speculation about what And I called this earlier today. I called last night one of the most consequential nights literally in the in NBA history.

And only time will tell.

It's the Tatum injury, it's the next getting a win, It's the lottery going down the way that it did. It's maybe honest is available, maybe Boston breaks it down. We'll get to San Antonio at too. But you're reporting Dallas is not going to move off of one and they are going to draft Cooper Flag.

Yes, yes, And like I'm not sure what Nico Harrison's thoughts are, to be honest with you, but I'm telling you that that doesn't matter. Patrick Dumont, who just finished his first year as the Maths governor, who had the thing blow up in his face, who was looking at bleeding money for the foreseeable future, is not going to entertain We thought of potentially trading this pick for one second. Cooper Flag will be under Dallas Mavericks. Again, this is

And I know you reference the portion of the intrawebs that actually believe this was Nico Harrison playing chessnut Checkers, which is beyond But let me ask you. Are MAVs fans now in a place where they, I don't know, don't want to show up at his house so.

He doesn't have to have security.

Is is this completely removing the heat from Nico Harrison as it pertains the way MAVs fans are feeling today.

I you know, I don't think that it solves his relationship with the the fan base, but it does solve the will people show up to you know to games next year? Will people tune in on TV to watch this team? Look, Nico, he put himself in a spot where he's going to be the guy who backstabbed Luca. Uh, you know that's a Luke is always going to be

Fair enough, so then it gets interesting it too with san Antonio.

And you know, everything I read about Dylan Harper and everything I've watched about Dylan Harper indicates that he's gonna he has a chance.

To be really good.

Now, these are all young players, and you never know how it's gonna work out. San Antonio, you know, at this point is in a really really advantageous spot because of all of the assets they have not just now and moving forward, and some really exciting young players, and you know, does Dylan Harper provide some redundancy after acquiring Daron Fox? And you have Stefan Castle like they san Antonio.

I mean, Dallas is the clear winner.

But san Antonio comes out of this once again in a really great spot. Of course, the conversation turns to Giannis and anyone else that could be available. When you put Giannis next to whem Yama, it feels like it's completely unfair.

But what do you think the Spurs do it too.

Well?

You know, miss Johnson now they're head coach. Uh talked to the media last night and he's the way he phrased it was that puts them in position to make a really big acquisition. I thought that was a very interesting phrase. And I definitely think that they've got you know, they've got two lout picks too, and what is it fourteen? I believe you know, they've got young talent on some of that young talents on its second contract. So there's the you know, they've got plenty of flexibility and assets.

Weird?

Defensively you want to try to score on the battanem and then offensively, you know, Winby can space it out to thirty open it up for you, honest, and then also have the ability to be a go to guy, Like if that happens, it could be pretty being scary.

So the other teams that I've heard and I've heard you guys talk about this on the collective, Houston, of course, that had a great regular season, advanced to the postseason probably ahead of schedule for most certainly for me. And then Oklahoma City, which of course is going to be in the mix because of all the assets they have

Well, I think that Jannis is going to have significance, say on where he goes, and I think that there was an understanding when he signed this last extension if it just that point that they wouldn't they wouldn't trade him without giving him some say. My anticipation is number one, we don't know for certain that you honest is gonna ask to be moved, But should he do so, I think he will give them a probably a very short list, and I think the Bucks will respect his wishes and

So the Tatum news, which became official about an hour ago, and it just it's it sucks.

I mean, entering the prime of a.

Career that's already been incredibly successful and he was so good at the Garden before going down with a couple

Like?

What do you think happens in Boston this offseason? And who are the players that could potentially get involved? You grab maybe some of the pieces they decide the shed.

Yeah, it's been pretty well understood throughout the league that this up is We're going to make some sort of cost cutting move this summer. Drew Holiday, frankly, is the one that I've heard most often as the possibility. Obviously, when you're looking at age, that makes sense, but you know whether it's him, whether it's you know, Porzingis, whether it's Janson Brown would be the most surprised to me, just because you know of the age, but he's biggest

Now to your earlier point, a lot of the offseason will be colored by the remainder of the postseason, which leads me to Cleveland. And I suppose if you're Cleveland, you can say, well, Darius wasn't right, we lost DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mobley, and you know, you can lean back on the injury stuff and the health stuff because by every metric, they had a historic regular season. Donovan Mitchell knows a thing or two about having historic regular seasons, and it looks like he is about to go home

I would wade draw on them running it back. You know they obviously they didn't hit it last year and changed coaches. But from our officer standpoint, they didn't pivot last season. You know, I don't. I don't think you can just chalk this uping with other's entries and whatnot. Like, look, it looks like they're going to exit in the second round. That's a massive disappointment given the success they had in

Are you ready to say that it's Indiana and New York and Eastern Conference Finals?

I mean, certainly that's where I would put my bets. How's that for going on all in with those teams up three to one and they're being injury issues on the teams that are down three to one. I mean, it would be shocking at this point. And it's funny because if it ask them going in this series, I how to laugh at the possibility. But it's it certainly looks like that's what we're looking at. Middie Miller, you know, get all the old Regi Miller clips out Regi Miller

I'm with you.

No part of me ever thought, you know, and mostly it was because of how much I respected Boston. But things have changed, and so we'll see how it plays out. We'll end with the game you're on tonight. But before we get there, you know, I felt like Golden State just needed to get one. You ball, Steph was on the sideline, and now it just kind of feels like, I don't know if it's possible for them to get

I would think so. I mean, without staff is just a struggle for the Warriors to score. The thunder Wolves are obviously playing with an extreme amount of confidence. And you know, according to esp and research, when Rudy Gobert has a close that opportunity against the guy who's made a point of humiliating and during this postseason, he averages twenty seven points to twenty four rebounds, So look out.

Dray mom Well said, all right, what do you think happens tonight?

This Nuggets Okay series, OKAC series has been awesome and I don't even know which way to lean at this point. Tim, So where are you at with this series? And how do you think tonight plays out? Before I set you loose?

Well, it's been an awesome competition. The game four, honestly was awful to watch, So let's not lie. That's I'm sitting there watching that thing in person, and my eyeballs are still aching. And it's a really tough spot for the Nuggets, man. Honestly, the silver lining for them is they were able to salvage a win during this stretch.

Yeah, No, it's wild how many guys they have. They can play high level. All right, enjoy the game. Great work today and we'll chat soon.

Thanks him, Appreciate you well.

McMahon covers the NBA for ESPN.

He technically is the ESPN guy on the Jazz Beats, But the past couple of years it's not a lot to talk about with the Jazz. Rough day man, no other way to put it. And Richard Smith is going to join us live in studio smid. He spent forty years with Utah Jazz, and he is going to take me to task for my opinion that the Jazz we're doing the right thing by losing games this year. Tim

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Because the fans are used to coming to a game, no matter what it is, their son's high school game or the college game, whoever it is, and trying to watch your team put best it's best foot forward to try and win the game you're playing. And the Jazz didn't do that this year. Obviously, they held out guys who were healthy. They got fined along the way by the NBA for doing that. It's just it's just not a very good look to me for any organization that

Awesome dynamite analysis. I'm not sure who that was. It sounded like Richard Smith.

Well May twelfth, came and went yesterday, and the lottery balls did not fall in the favor of the Utah Jazz.

Now, I will remind you the Jazz ended.

Up with a pick that they were most likely to get based off the percentages, even though the reaction from folks around here is that the whole thing is rigged and the fixes in. But Richard Smith is live in studio during the four o'clock hour. My goodness, Smitty, one of the most truly one of the most consequential nights that the NBA has had in a long time for several reasons.

But of course we'll start with your reaction to the Utah Jazz.

I'll say, falling to five, they could not fall any further than five, but they fell as far as they could.

Where you at with it today, Yeah.

Well that's that's uh, that's what the numbers of your mathematician. That's what you would expect, you know, would most probably happen. Of course, you and I have bantered about this all all season long, Spence, and and you were in the tank group. No, no, no, no, I'm just I'm just

Well, and to your point, and maybe it's time to start thinking about this a little differently. My assertion, uh continues to be that the Utah Jazz have to find a franchise pillar that wants to stay here for a while.

And if we're honest, we haven't had that since John and Carl.

We thought we added with Gordon, we thought we added with Darren, we thought we added with Donovan.

How do they find that? Smitty, Well, what do you do? Well, that's always a trick.

And and and the NBA the way it's set up, spencing the collective Bargain agreement, and and we've we've we've talked about this before and and Gordon Hayward and and uh is the perfect, a textbook example of how the system is set up to work, and that is that we've If you draft a guy and you develop him, and you like him, and he's your guy, you know, for the long term at least that's what you plan for, the team has control of that player basically for the

But it doesn't.

Usually it doesn't work out like that. It usually works against you. But one of the things I wanted to mention Spence along with that. I don't know how you felt about this, but I'm watching the program last night and I was I found myself somewhat offended by or embarrassed by the way the league had all these players at the at the at this lottery, all the so called top pick players, and they paraded them out, and they had some of them in interviews before Hey, what

Spence.

Item A on the table is Yannis, and Yanna says, you know, maybe I'll look at some other stuff and whatever, now, you know. And I'm surprised I didn't read anything today where anybody said, oh, would if you were put in the position, would you trade the number one pick right now for Yannis?

Would you do that?

As an organization? You know, Like, I'm surprised nobody said that, because you know, Yannis is a real guy. He's already proven he's a real guy, and he's in his prime. And you're telling me, you know, teams wouldn't look and go, well, wait a minute, now, I'm going to take an eighteen year old kid from college, or I can have Yannis in his prime to go with my group because my job is to try and see if I can get us to a championship level.

Like, I mean, I don't know.

I think it's just that's an interesting question to me. But I even heard that, And that's because everybody on the broadcast I was doing the whole broadcast aimed at Cooper flag is number one, and he's going, whoever gets number one, and that's it, and we're all in on it, and his parents are there, and everybody's sitting there, and I'm going, does somebody have Deon Sanders number? Because somebody should call him and say, hey, how is this for

I know it's TV.

I know they're doing it for TV, but I just I thought that was so egregious by the NBA making all these presumptions about what they think is already going to take place six weeks from now.

For some reason, I just found that at a little distasteful.

Well, it's a good angle to take because you've been part of rooms for a number of different years, namely four decades, where you do have to make decisions, and sometimes the decisions you make are completely counter to what everyone on the on the outside looking in believes is going to happen.

Now.

Tim McMahon, it was our guest last hour, wrote a piece for the dot com side. It also is ESPN, who's a partner with the NBA, of course, quoting Patrick Demond saying we're not trading one and we are taking Cooper Flag.

But the reason why I like this angle is, look.

Man, I can read all of the Jonathan Gavoni mock drafts I want, and I can read all the guys over at the Athletic do a really good job. You know, there are a lot of really good NBA writers who cover the draft and scouts who dig into this in a way that I just don't day to day because I have four hours of radio to do, so I do lean on them, and you know, ultimately, at least Gavoni has been very consistent that the order is Cooper flag.

Dylan Harper, Ace Bailey and VJ.

Edgecombe and gavoni assertion is if you have one of the top four picks in this draft. You have a chance to draft the player that should be very special for you for a long time. But I feel like I hear that every year and then there's a Kawhi mid first round or even Steph goes seven and Steph is generational.

The best player in the world was the second round pick.

So for the Chicken Little Crew and saw Lake to believe the sky is falling, help us understand why it might not be falling.

Well, Spencer's a couple of things. One is the Jazz fell to number five, right, so they're gonna be you know, they have the fifth pick. And that was also another thing the Assistant commission by Commissioner.

Martatum.

Tatum sorry, he he kept fascilating back and forth when he was saying who the picks were by using the phrase the number five pick will be taken by the Utah Jazz, and I kept thinking, well, you don't know if the Utah Jazz are going to take number five. The the number five pick will be going to the Utah Jazz. It should be the phrase and be kept going back and for that, you know, a little semantic. And that's that's what I spend my nights doing. That

I don't like Trey as much, which some people. I don't hate Tree as much as something. Hey, the Aaron Fox, I'd say that's a win at five. Former jazz man Chris Dunn probably not the pick.

Marioizzonia, same thing, okay, Alex lenn this is not going well Smith Thomas Robinson.

When do we get to the Kevin Garnetts and the Trois.

Okay, the Marcus Cousins, Ricky Rubio. Okay.

So the point being, you got some hits, you got some missus, Okay, at number five. That's what happens. Flip it around. Okay, we're watching the playoffs now right. Here's names for you of guys who are contributing, guys on playoff teams.

That are still alive, which is what you want. Okay.

These are the guys who are still helping to drive the bus at this point in time, the middle of May, in the NBA playoffs, and where they were taken in the draft. Jalen Brunson thirty three, YEP, Michael bridget ten, Peyton Pritchard twenty six, Max Struce undrafted, YEP, Podzemski nineteen, Jokic forty one, Rudy Gobert twenty seven, Jane McDaniels twenty eight,

I get it.

You know, people are jumping off the bridges and whatever, you know, because the Jazz didn't get the number one pick. But they're going to get a good player if they evaluate accurately, and as always Spence, only time will tell that, but they will have the opportunity amongst a handful of players that they like and evaluate very critically to add someone to their group. They're also going to be picking twenty one from Minnesota. At least they have the twenty

Right.

So the point, my belabored point is you can find guys, and you can find more than one guy that can actually help and add to your in what you're trying to do, but you have to evaluate that in the right frame, and you have to be able to have a group that believes in what they're doing and be able to go go find those guys and how to procure them. And that's gonna be the interesting part over the next six week process between now and June twenty sixth, which is the draft day.

Tim McMahon is on TV. He was just on our show fifteen minutes ago. Look at that, all right, McMahon.

See see everybody tries to use you, Spence as the stepping starts true, they come here, true, and then boom fifteen minutes later, Doron t You won't see me doing that, Spence.

No, I appreciume with you. I appreciate with you. Okay, Porter's using me as a step inside.

I know this.

I'm riding with you. I don't just run to eat. Oh did you say yes, pans On Spence, Sorry, I gotta go yes, yes, pans On.

The final I know you're lied to be all right, at the risk of insulting your intelligence, here we go only because you worked in the league for forty years. Let me put the caveat on the question before I ask it. Yes that no party me believes any of this stuff is rigged, never have, never will.

But it is a rite of passage for NBA fans this time of year. Who is there?

Who are fans of a certain team that they perceive to be that they perceive got screwed. Right, So it ultimately depends on who you cheer for. There are no Dallas Maverick fans today that believe the lottery is rigged. They just believe they got lucky. San Antonio just wants the lottery to continue because you know they built dynasties on lottery luck.

Right.

And by the way, non seculitor.

If there is an example that the lottery isn't rigged, it's that San Antonio, Texas has been the biggest beneficiar ever. Okay, but for the jazz fan listeners today, that's say little Salt Lake City Jazz moved down last year, the jazz moved down this year. Ten lottery appearances. We've never moved up. The fixes in What do you say.

To them, It's, well, it's insulting anybody's intelligence, I know out the the NB Yeah, I mean, but but look, you know, people want to and and I think you're right. I heard you earlier say something about you know, we always want to blame somebody else. You know, this is this is the Trump's n b A, if you will, right, Like, it didn't go your way, so we got to find somebody else to blame, that's right.

Yeah, so you know, which is obviously ridiculous.

I know you had I know you had Andy Larson on the last hour, and and he was in the room and and he saw the pingbound balls, and and I saw a fascinating article. Someone who else was also

You don't go in.

You don't go into Caesar's palace and they say, hey, hey, come on over to the table here, son, We're going to give you a fourteen percent chance to win some big money tonight. You go, wow, what table is that?

And we're prepared for this. I'm not sure if I'm sure they knew that.

Obviously they know all those kinds of things, but I think everybody was hoping against hope that this would happen for them. Hey, the people in Washington were doing the exact same thing. Yeah, they had the one game better than the Jazz on the last second shot in the last game of the season whatever, and they had a fourteen percent chance and they went from possibly one to six. The Jazz went from possibly one to five. Yeah, and Charlotte dropped the spot. So Pelicans dropped to seven. Yes,

Into a big plus.

Right.

They sent people like the Washington Wizards a group and the Utah Jazz Group going out the side door with their heads hung low because they're all disappointed because they were hoping against hope that that would this would work out for them and it didn't. And you know, I, as we've we've talked about before, Spence, it's I don't get it.

That's just me.

I did these things for a lot of years. I was in these draft rooms. I was, you know, in discussions with how we're gonna move up and down and out and in and all this stuff. And you know the fact that you spend a whole year positioning yourself purposely to be in a spot where you are going to the the poker table, you're going to the blackjack table, and they're telling you, hey, for all of your effort and all of your hard earned money. Son, We're gonna

And here we go. And like who would do that? Like I, I just don't get it.

And unfortunately it didn't work out for the Jazz And now they're they're trying to regroup.

They're going to get a good player at five. Not gonna get a Cooper Flag.

They're not gonna get a Dylan Harper, all right, but they're gonna get a good player unless they come up with something else. There's a lot of things that can happen between now and the draft day. They got six weeks to try and move up if that's what they want to do. Put a package together with another team, work with three teams, you know, move the balls around, do something, you know, to position themselves differently, if that's

All right, before we catch a break, one more question here coming up next, we'll talk about some of the optionality, which is the buzzword in pro basketball. The Jazz do have with Giannis reportedly open to being traded and the Jason Tatum news that the Achilles is ruptured.

Does Boston try to pivot move on?

Could the Jazz get involved in any of these discussions to maybe expedite the process a little bit, or will next year look a lot like this year did?

But before we catch break, and I don't know this, but in order to be.

Fair, and yes, I cannot debate or argue with you my opinion of what I thought the Jazz should do right out of the gates when they traded Donovan and Rudy. If that was your decision to jettison Donovan, Rudy, Bogdanovitch, Conley, O'Neil, the whole group in Quinn Leaves and Dennis Leaves, my opinion was you do have to go all in in one direction of the other. That's my opinion, okay, and

Is that fair to assume?

I don't know, Yeah, I think that.

You know, you're always trying to find a quicker way to get on the on the in the fast lane on the highway, right, so so you're always trying to improve your team. You know, there's no such thing as a six year, a seven year and eight year you know, rebuilding a time frame. Nobody puts an artificial time limit

They didn't.

They moved, They moved down like the Jazz did last night, ended up moving back to five. They didn't like that spot in the draft. Danny Ainge was able to move that pick to end up getting Ray Allen to come from Seattle, and then in a different move, was able to move some picks, move some other guys to Minnesota to get Kevin Garnett, and all of a sudden, you've got Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce and you go from being a bottom five team in the league

Is it something like that that may come up? We don't know.

Is it something like Phoenix, which is around the corner that probably has to do something with Durant and Beale in some way, shape or form, because that's obviously not working. Is it something that involves Giannis who wants to go somewhere else, and it may not be the Jazz, but the Jazz may be a third team that helps something

The world of professional golf turns inside of the PGA Championship at Quell Hoilo coming up this weekend.

One year ago today, well not one year ago today, but one year.

Ago Smitty PGA Championship Scotti Scheffler arrested prior to round two, which was just so wild. Richard Smith is live in studio, Jordan Speith going for the career Grand Slam coming up this weekend after Rory McElroy was able to grab it with his green jacket.

All right, Smitty.

Of course, the big news of the day today that we've been dissecting so far as the Utah Jazz will draft number five in the upcoming NBA Draft down June the twenty fifth.

Shamsherarnia reporting that.

The Jazz will try to be very active to move up in set NBA drafts. I've had a lot of friends reach alie, Hey, can they just move up and draft Cooper Flag at one? I'm like, well, you have to have the other general manager agreed to the deal in place. Like, yes, in theory, just do that, But what are what are the conversations like when it's like, all right, we like this guy at three, but we're at five. Can we get to three? Or we kind

Well, you know, it reminds me suspense you say that about just moving up, you know. Frank Laydon said he one time got a call from someone who a very influential person in the community, said, hey, Hi, great, I do we have a good young team with that Stockton kid and the Malone guy. You know, you know would be really good with them, would be uh, would be Patrick Ewing. You know, you guys should get Patrick Ewing. And Frank said, really, he goes, that's that's a good idea.

He goes like, you.

Guys like rich Rich Kelly. In the second for Patrick.

Shout out to Rich Kelly's that's one of my guys, Rich Kelly.

Yes, so Smittie.

I mean, ultimately, if I just asked you for your best guess as far as what next year is going to look like, because you know, again, Adam Silver and the NBA in twenty nineteen decided to flatten the lottery odds and was their motivation to dissuade teams from tanking. Probably they also put some financial things into place that make your overspending very punitive. So great teams like the Nuggets we've seen lose some players. The Warriors had to

Is that stuff real? Maybe?

But twenty nineteen lottery odds flattens. Six drafts later, the worst team in the NBA has not received the number one pick since. So just best guess. What do you think the offseason looks like? And what do you think next season looks like for Jazz fans?

Well, again, I think the Jazz have a lot of stuff they they can propose, you know, again, to beat the dead horse. You know Danny's famous comment about we're gonna go big game hunting. And we've said this before, Spence, you can go big game hunting.

You can.

You can tell your wife on Friday, Hey, I'm going up in the mountains and I'm gonna get a bag of big, big buck and I'm gonna bring it back and we're gonna have deer meat all winter or whatever. And you go up and you come back at the end of the weekend and you have nothing, and your wife, I thought you were going. I thought you were going big game. Well I did, and where's the big game. I didn't get him. You didn't see him. I saw him, but I didn't get them, you know, And whatever I mean,

I e.

The Phoenix Suns.

It may be something, you know, where a top line player just needs a change of scenery and the team that has them under contract feels like they need a change of scenery because it just isn't working the way they thought, i e.

Milwaukee.

It could be you know, from a couple of years ago, you know when the Brooklyn Nets look like they were going to be running the NBA for five, six, seven years with Durant and Harden and and and Kyrie Irving, and those three guys played a total of sixteen games together during their time in Brooklyn, which is unfathomable now when you look back on it, and it just didn't work. And so they were trying to get rid of each one of those guys in different, different fashion. So those

So do you think next year will look a lot like this season did?

Well? I think that.

I think they're going to try and make it look a lot different in terms of making some moves. Whether it's a draft, whether it's a free agent thing, whether it's trades, Whether they get stuff done on any of those fronts or all of them, remains to be seen.

You know.

A current example of that to me is somebody like the Atlanta Hawks, who you know, maybe the Miami Heat, although the Heat broke through a couple of years ago and and you know, got to the finals and you know, but they had some breaks to get through that, but it worked. But sometimes you can fool yourself into thinking you're one of those guys. You don't want to be

Yeah, the irony in what you're saying is the number ten team in the Western Conference here this year was the Dallas Mavericks, who now own the number one overall pick. There you go, and so you know now that we have, you know, after they flattened the lottery odds in twenty nineteen, I think a lot of people said, Okay, well, let's wait and see how this looks. And now that we have six drafts in six lotteries behind us, and the data now says tanking does not guarantee you anything.

In the NFL, it does, Okay, it's inverse order. Period. They reward teams that are horrible.

Ironically enough, teams like my Jets do not seem to ever find their way out of that group. But in pro basketball, the data is in that you can tank all you want, and if you think that's the right way to roll, then you can roll that way. And yes, your percentages are slightly higher than the teams behind you.

Now for a minute, well, I don't know the lottery I think, I mean, I understand what you're saying about. You know, now we have six years, we can look at it a little bit. But the lottery, I know this sounds kind of simplistic, but the lottery is the lottery. In other words, you can't predict what's going to happen. So anybody who wants to play that game, like the Jazz did this year again, spence to be the dead horse.

And so over the course of.

An eighty two game season, it usually works out that the better teams are the better teams. And you know, when you get to this stuff, that's just what it is. And I don't I don't understand people who you know, don't. I mean, it's not that complicated, Spence. It's just like going to the playground, like the hard scrabble streets that

Who are you going to take?

You're gonna take the kid you know is the best player in the neighborhood, and then you're going to take the next guy and whatever. And the whole purpose is what the whole purpose is to win the game you're playing, so you get to stay on the court and the losers have to go off and play the next group of guys. Right, the NBA system in the playoffs, it's

So when it comes to the lottery, the lottery is what it is.

It's just a flip of the coin, or in this case,

And the system is not changing anytime soon. Do you think they look at it? I mean, would you like to see a different approach?

I mean no, because I think they I think they've I think they've uh not overthought. I think they've thought it through enough with enough statisticians and mathematicians and and what are the odds?

And how do you do this?

And there used to be one ping pong ball and fourteen teams, and they ruffled it up and they go okay, and they pull out one ball and they go, uh, number five, who's got number five?

Oh?

The Atlanta Hawks have number five? Okay, they get the first pick. I mean it used to be that. Now that's four ping pong balls, and they each have a.

Number on them.

So they get the one number okay, and number seven okay, all right? The next one number thirteen, whatever. And then they then you have a you have a big, you know, print out sheet and you look at, okay, do we have lottery number. It's just like Spence buying a lottery ticket over across the border in Idaho and you got the numbers on the ticket and they read off the fourth number.

Ah, I had a seven, they called the six. I didn't win it.

You know, it's the same thing, I mean, And and so they've got that figured out. It just doesn't work for you. And to your point, Spence, everybody wants to find a reason that we didn't win and somebody's against us, and you know whatever, and that's just it's just not the case.

It's just that's the reality of what a lottery is.

And I think, well, my guess is the other thing that really stings about last night? And John Hollinger wrote a piece on this for The Athletic Today. So again the jazz fault, I'm gonna say, air quotes fall to five. It was the most likely scenario based off the percentages prior to the lottery, and Zanak talked about this.

Yeah, one and two. It was basically a fifty percent change, right right.

Right, So forty eight point seven percent chance they were gonna draft it five fourteen percent chance they were gonna draft it one. But I don't think think the sting that fans are feeling today is only about that. I think it's also about the fact that Dallas and San Antonio, two of your Western Conference peers, are at one and two. Because if you're a Jazz fan, you're already looking up at well, I'm not even gonna read the list everybody,

Yeah.

So now two of the teams that you thought maybe we're not that far away from you're miles away from again. So I think if you're a Jazz fan today, it's not just man, we didn't get one or two, we actually are drafting five. It's two of our Western Conference piers have one and two, and now we've got miles to go to catch them.

Yeah, And and and the fact that their Western Conference is a good point. But but you're right when when they when they showed Ashley Smith, who I felt on the stage and and her being in that position and she's on an island by herself at that moment in time, and and not used to that that scenario and everything, and.

I just want to reach the TV.

Yeah, felt really bad for her, and and uh, but then they but then they exacerbated by going and now we're gonna go to commercial and we'll go come back for the final four picks, and they go to a three minute commercial and they rearrange the stage and all that stuff, and and uh and when when they when they picked Charlotte at the at four And then I'm

I know.

It's uh, that's that's you know. I don't know what to say about that, except except that's that's the proverbial and literal bounce of the ball.

That's why they call it the lottery. There we go, Minni. Thanks for your time, my friend. We'll see you soon, okay.

Ben's appreciate you.

Richard Smith live in studio five o'clock out and I will kind of continue some of this conversation with the Jazz Draft at A five. If you missed it earlier, it's official Jason Tatum as ruptured as Achilles. He actually already had surgery, so hopefully we'll see Tatum back and better than ever at some point. Before we catch a break, we welcome in Ryan from the Dish professionals. Give him a call at eight oh one, four to two four dish.

What's going on right, and it's just crazy.

We know we've got so many customers that we have.

Saved, not just like a little bit, but we're talking like three four thousand dollars over the next couple of years.

The promotion is just a sweetie.

It's a two year promotion. Price is guaranteed not to change. You get actually a ton of programming less than a lot of the competitors. I mean, that's the thing, and that's right now. Price. We all know what's going to happen six months down the road or cable. Every three months, you're going to see a rat increase and the bill is going to keep going up and up, and next thing you know, you're going to be spending maybe twenty fifty dollars more than what you were paying a couple

Little James Taylor put you in a good mood if you're a bummed out jazz fan today.

Nothing wrong with a little jt the right song. Yeah, No, I love it.

Brian Santiago is now the new athletic director at Brigham Young University. Tom Holmo stepped down a number of months ago now, and apparently a search was held. I will tell you this, Brian Santiago is very good friends with Ryan Smith and Danny Ainge.

So keep it in the family, I guess.

I mean, especially in today's age, those are relationships that you don't look at. Is weird in the college space anymore. You want them, you want all the money, all the boosters, all the zoubs, You want them in that room, you want their checkbooks open, and you want to be as nice to them as possible.

And it appears that's going on at the moment.

Yes, indeed, all right.

NBA playoff action tonight because of the massive story of the NBA Draft lottery again not just the Jazz ending up at number five, but also two Western Conference teams with already good young rosters, well good young roster in San Antonio, still a lot of talent in Dallas, with of course, a D and Kyrie. That's kind of taken up most of our oxygen here. But Porter, are you ready to say with Jason Tatum's sideline sadly that the New York Knicks are going to the Eastern Conference Finals?

I think so, I think so. I decided, well, I didn't decide.

It's not up to me to decide, but I had a good feeling yesterday that the winner of that game would win the series. I told my Celtics friends the same thing. And then not only did the Knicks win the series, but the Celtics also lost their best player, a player who, yes, we've gone back and forth about what he is in big moments and big times. He's got a title, he's their most consistent wing. He's and

I've been wildly impressed, man.

I mean, Jalen is Jalen, but mckel bridges two different fourth quarter just dominant offensive performances, and OG's been awesome. A Pacers Nicks Eastern Conference finals no part of me. You could have given me a million guesses at the start of the year, no part of me would have landed on that.

It also makes me a little a little scared, not necessarily the matchup, that's more of a nostalgia history thing.

Yeah, look you're preaching to the choir. There a little PTSD for Nick fans for sure. So look, all is not lost Jazz fans. You can find great players all over the place. But I understand why last night was just in need of the groin. I will repeat, Let's not be the type of people that win something to not go our away. We simply cry like it's cheating or it's fixed.

It's not. But it sucks.

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On a Wednesday edition of The Drive, Spence of course, Sarah Todd talking some jazz, talking some NBA Draft lottery, the number five pick. She is like Andy at the NBA Draft combine. So we'll get some stuff from her on the ground. There Neil Smith will stop by NHL wrap around a little update. I know it's been heavy on the NBA side the last few days, but a little update on the NHL postseason. Chris Camerannie in studio for an entire hour on a Wednesday and speaking of

You can't see what I'm doing, but look on YouTube. All right, there you go. That'll be a fun Wednesday show special.

Thank you to Andy Larson, Alamiteou, Tim McMahon and Richard Smith for any of the saud you may have missed from the show. Just go to the website ESPN seven hundred sports dot com, download the mobile app, Take us on the Goats how I listen to our station, and then support our podcast page. Please, if you like what we do in the afternoons, your support on our pod will help us. It's called The Drive with Spence. Check its that's.

Available wherever you get your shows. Reporter.

I'm Spence saying to I talk to you on a Wednesday edition of the program, and as always, you can find it right here on ESPN seven hundred ninety two and FFM.

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