TUE POD @SpenceChecketts on Jazz adding another Ainge, NBA Finals, RSL struggles + more

All right, let's get at drive time Tuesday afternoon, twelve minutes past the hour of two o'clock. It is a Chamber of Commerce Salt Lake City day. Outside it's about seventy five degrees clear and sunny here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utahs. We have turned our calendars to June, but it feels more springish outside. But as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along for the riots fence check.

It's beyond the mic.

Porter Larsen behind the glass, producing the program, booking the program. Today we are one day away from the battle for.

Lord Stanley's Cup.

The Stanley Cup Finals between Edmonton and Florida. Rematch gets rolling tomorrow. Then the NBA Finals will start on Thursday. Friendly reminder, we are your home of well not just the NBA and the Stanley Cup Finals, but all the biggest and best sporting events out there here on ESPN seven hundred. So if you're looking to listen to either it Stanley Cup Finals or the NBA Finals, we are

I will get into that on the show today.

Have some good NBA guests to talk about that on the show today, and the day after Austin Ainge was introduced as the new basketball excuse me, president of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz, will kind of react to some of the things Austin had to say yesterday, his response to a very very good question posed to him by our very own Shoan O'Connell about potentially tanking next year. Austin with a dynamite SoundBite, and no part of me

Who your owner is.

If you do not have players, you are in trouble, and the Jazz just don't. So we'll get into a bunch of it on the show today Bobby Mark setting out his Jazz offseason spreadsheet. It will kind of dig into a little bit kind of understand what the Jazz can do this offseason and why next offseason is probably the more likely situation of when they can actually add talent that would make them a little bit more viable than clearly the fifteenth best roster in the West so far this year and.

Entering next year. So we'll get into it on the show today.

For Johnny Bryant is already being discussed as the next head coach of both the New York Knicks and the Phoenix Suns. Some other names are out there. I think you're gonna hear a lot of Jay Wright. I think you're gonna hear a lot of Michael Malone, who is a New Yorker by trade. Interesting news cycle this year as it pertains to coaching in pro basketball, where some really really good coaches who have done a really really good job lost their jobs. Most of the former coaches

As of now, the Jazz have five and twenty one.

They've got a couple of second rounders as well, so we'll dig into it. It's all the storylines on the program today. RSL has a seven match winless streak, Foresman's cannot be added until mid July, so RSL on a little bit of a break, will bring in Pablo Master, any RSL head coach today, see our guy's holding up and how the progress is kind of going, to see if they can get back off the snide. Diego Luna will be with the US men's national team playing in

Tim McMahon NBA Daily Assess Style.

Tim sent out a tweet of his suitcase where I believe he has ten pairs of shoes.

Packed for the NBA Finals.

We won't talk a lot about that, but I had that kind of copy off guard.

I didn't take Tim to be a sneakerhead like that.

But of course we'll talk about the Austin Range media availability, we'll talk about offseason for the Utah Jazz, and then we'll get into the stuff with Tom Thibodeaux and who Tim thinks is going to take that New York job. Then obviously preview the NBA Finals. Sarah Todd, guys, the Red News covers the Utah Jazz. She's had some interesting takeaways from ultimately what happened yesterday with Austin Ainge's media availability and what the Jazz could do this offseason. And

He fired.

Tom Thibodeau. I am I'm honestly stunned, and maybe I shouldn't be. Taylor Jenkins, Michael Malone, Frank Vogel, I could keep going.

What do you think? What are your thoughts?

Yeah, obviously when you you look at it on its face. Tom Thibodeau gave the Knicks what their best couple of seasons since twenty thirteen or or before, and then an Eastern Conference Finals run.

It's hard to argue with the results. For one.

Tom Thibodeau, I've and listen, you know this just going back and forth with me, I've always been kind of lukewarm on him. I always have felt like there is maybe that glass ceiling different term, but an actual ceiling there with Thibodeaux, just based on some of his coaching styles.

So we'll get into it today. We have some good NBA guests. I'm stunned. As I've said before, and I will say it again and I'll say it probably until it changes. The Knicks will not win a championship when that while that clown owns the team. The clown is Jim Dolan. He really does play a kazoo in a band that he bank rolls and makes his employees go see at night in New York. It's a real thing, So we'll get into it. Pablo mash Joiny our first

Welcome to the.

Drive with Spence check its on Utah's number one sports talk now into the studios of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by Prize Picks. Use the code ESPN seven hundred and run your game with Prize Picks.

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It doesn't. It's stupid.

Fresh off the deepest playoff round the New York Knicks have had in twenty five years. They fired Tom Thibodeaux, who's made the playoffs for the past five seasons. Over the past three years playoff wins number one, Boston number two, Denver number three, New York back to back fifty win seasons for the first time since nineteen ninety four and nineteen ninety five. Prior to that, it was nineteen ninety

Now the Pacer has spoiled everybody's party.

Nobody thought the Pacers would be the Eastern Conference rep in the final, but they are so a seriously misguided, stupid decision today to fire Tom Thibodeau. There's no other way around it. He did a remarkable job. He was the coach of the year three years ago. Three years ago they beat Boston, he undressed Joe Missoula. Now he was out coached, in my opinion by Rick Carlisle, and I have been very honest about that.

Now Tom gets a lot of heat.

Before not digging into his bench very much and playing his starters a lot of minutes, did you notice who was on the Knicks bench.

Really not a lot of great options.

Okay, so we saw Tom dust Off, Landrew Shammitt and former Ute Delon Wright when it came to the Indiana series at that point it was probably too late, but they do not have a great bench. They're very top heavy. And Leon Rose was calculated about identifying Jalen Brunson, and really that was as a result of what the MAVs did to the Jazz when Luka Doncis was hurt and Jalen took over as the primary offensive initiator and everybody's like,

You can trade players, but.

You're not gonna cut Cat, and you're not gonna trade Cat unless you get a lot in return. So if this was a power struggle between Karl Anthony Towns and Tom Thibodeau, maybe Leon Brose really had no choice. This does reakive another misguided decision from the worst owner in professional sports by far, and that's James Dolan. He was named by Sports Illustrated as the worst owner in pro

It wasn't because of the guy coaching the team.

It was because of their lack of depth and the defensive issues that present themselves when you have Karl Anthony Towns on your roster.

Minnesota fans know this, so it's done. It's a dumb move.

Okay, now, before we catch a break, I think one of the things that we should point out here is, well, I still believe the Utah Jazz have a ton of work to do with roster construction to even be relevant and somewhat competitive. And I'm not talking about being in close games and winning thirty thirty five games. Who gives a rip about that. I'm talking about getting back to the postseason and advancing, competing for home court, giving this

Sean O'Connell ESPN seven hundred. As someone correctly stated, it seems like a team in a rebuild, and some things were done this past season to potentially manipulate where the team would end up in the draft. Lot ofy odds, and unfortunately some of that is dependent on luck and

I won't see that this year.

Yesterday, during Austin Ange's media availability, our very own Sean O'Connell the question that has made the rounds. A lot of people have reacted to it. Our next guest was also present and certainly will have some thoughts on that and all things related to the Utah Jazz. Two time Utah Sports Writer of the Year, Sarah Todd des Red News, Sarah, Happy Tuesday.

How are you?

I'm doing great. I actually was not present, so I should I should say that I'm actually in San Diego.

So, sir, literally nobody knew knew that you could have just faked it.

I know, Honor System. I started to feel bad before I even talked.

That says a lot about you. That's I'm jealous you're in San Diego. But let's get your reaction and also whether or not you believe what Austin had to say that this idea of making sure certain players are encouraged to not show up for work in order to have the best lottery odds.

Is something we will not see from the Jazz next year.

Yeah, I mean I was just as shocked as everyone else. I mean not just from that comment, but google whole press conference. I mean the way that it started right off the that like Ryan Smith had some comments, Austin said some comments, and then they opened up the questions. But literally, like the first thing that Ryan said to reporters was, I know, everyone's going to probably have some questions about like organizational structure and hierarchy, and I'm going

All right, Well I don't believe, Okay, like I don't believe them. I don't believe what Austin said to be a truthful statement.

I thought it was a great SoundBite.

And respectfully, Sarah, if anybody out there is buying that, Danny didn't know Ryan was talking to his son about this job. I've got a great piece of property we can talk about like. There's no way that happened behind closed doors either. But let's operate because your sources are good as good as any beat writer we have in the market.

You're connected.

So if we operate off the assumption and take Austin at his word that next year they are going to put their best foot forward and not be unserious about competition, you tell me what that looks like in your opinion, because as we've talked about, and as you know, they have a top eight protected pick next year that if they don't finish in the top eight, that pick goes to the team that's about to win the World championship.

Well, I think that's the difference is I don't believe that they're going to go all in and try to win. I think that that there is a difference between not tanking and trying to win, like there is a middle ground there, which is why I believe that if they're talking about, like if they're being serious about not manipulating the injury report in minutes, I think that you have to offload players from the roster in order to make it so that you can put your best foot forward

Could just keep the pick.

And so, I mean, it just feels insane if they were to not go after that pick. And so if they're going to stand by the word that they're not going to manipulate things in order to get better lottery odds as it pertains to like performances and minutes, then I would expect a lot of trading to start happening.

Yeah, well said, I do think there's a world because in my opinions, it's Lowry and it's Walker. Are the two players where you've got a little something there, Okay, I have questions about literally every other player on the roster.

Yeah, I mean, and it kind of depends on what kind of timeline that you're going to be looking at, right, Like, these are all discussions that are going to be happening in the very coming days and weeks with Austin Ainge

On the other side, Okay, on the other side, and we'll just kind of talk about possibilities, Sarah, because there's no way of knowing how this will go. But you know, even Ryan yesterday, when Austin alluded to the success that he and his dad had in Boston, Ryan said, I'd take some of that success right now. And Ryan oftentimes in the past, has you know, I heard Ryan talk about a potential Christaps Porzingis deal that he thought they had done.

Bobby Mark's on my show said.

He was told that the Jazz had a really nice offer for Drew Holliday Andrew wanted to go play in Boston because they thought they could win, and they did.

He's an NBA champion now, so we know that Ryan.

Has expressed in the past the desire to bring in really good players. I still don't know who the guy down there was that uttered the we are going to sign Paul George and trade for mckel bridges. But good luck. I mean, that would have been awesome. Obviously that was not steeped in reality. But those are the desires that certain people down there have. And we are entering Sarah and offseason where Kevin Durant and maybe Jannis and maybe

So next year is.

The year that I think it's more realistic to talk about adding more viable pieces and talent to give them a better chance of competing. But is there are there avenues for the Jazz to add talent this offseason to make next year much more competitive? And if you're able to add a couple of really good veteran players, add them to these young pieces and maybe put a couple

It doesn't feel real. I agree, because even if we're talking about, like, you know, some of the guys that are on the table right now, like you're honest, right Like, why in any world or any scenario would Milwaukee.

Talk to.

Utah about the fifth pick and some of the young players that the Jazz have when clearly they could have the second pick from San Antonio and better young players.

And he is.

He literally tweeted out that he was screaming outside the day after the lottery, Like he is emotional and he reacts to things as a fan. He is a fan of this team that he owns, and so if Ryan Smith wants to win, I think that that is what is going to push decisions.

When it comes to the front office hierarchy. I guess we can only go off of what you've been told. Does it feel like Justin Zanik and Danny Ainge report to Austin Ange? Is that is that the gut the gut feel, is that kind of how this thing is going to play out?

That's what I mean, That's what we're led to believe right now. Right And like if they if the president of basketball operations job has been open for three years and they haven't made any indication that they were going to promote Justin Zanik, and he has stayed and for by all accounts, happily been in the position of general manager.

Were you surprised that Danny was not quoted in any press releases nor was made available during the media stuff.

I'm not surprised by that at all. I mean, number one, like, it's not shocking that they didn't make him available because probably posing some weird questions to him would be uncomfortable, So like why would they make him available for that?

Right?

But then also a little unfaired often, right, like if he just got hired at President of Basketball Operation, that's like the biggest job in the NBA that he's ever had, Like it would feel a little infantilizing to be like, Okay, now let's talk to your daddy.

Okay, the way, if you put it like that, I guess I'm on board. What do you Okay, let's see how to pose this question if you got Zanik in an honest moment about this entire thing. And let me start with this. We all want to keep our jobs and there are not a lot of NBA general manager jobs out there now. Zanik at one point was to be the new GM in Milwaukee before that went to Horst, and then he was elevated after Dennis Lindsay decided he

Yeah, I mean, like I said, he's known the score because he hasn't been given that promotion for three years, right, Like, if he thought that he was getting it then one year, two years ago, then it would have become clear, right and so, and I also think a lot about Justin's personal life when I think about his position. He's been in Utah for a long time, recently had a kidney transplant, learns that all of his children have the same genetic variant that he has that leads to the kidney disease

Happy, but healthy.

I think that that plays a lot more into Justin's decisions and perception on his life then maybe it did even two or three years ago. And then in addition to that, there are a lot of owners in the NBA who are less willing to spend money and less willing to keep things to keep continent. I mean, look

Yeah, And you're good to bring up the personal side. That's something that we fail to do in this space often. So I appreciate that perspective. I like Justin, I'm a Xanta guy, and so you know, I just kind of wonder how this is all landing with him, But yes, we all want to keep our jobs, and I'm sure

But what Ryan is elected to do will.

Hardy received, he's going to receive a nine year runway and he's won thirty percent of his basketball games. Tom Tibdeau was just fired after going to the Eastern Conference Finals and winning fifty games in back to back years for the first time in twenty five thirty years. So what Ryan has elected to do is like the anti Dolein approach, and that is lock in a front office, lock in a coach, and let's go again. Bottom line,

What are your thoughts.

I'm long been a believer that like consistency and continuity when it comes to coaching is really important. Like it is really hard to look at some of the teams in the NBA and think like, wow, that's not part of it, right, Like you look at the turnover and coaching in Phoenix, the turnover and coaching in Milwaukee, the turnover and coaching in Philadelphia, and like now New York is going to do it.

It's like, what do they.

Expect that someone else is going to think that just the biggest named coach, you know, budenholz Er, Doc Rivers, Nick Nurse, you just like rotate those guys in and it's going to fix all the problems.

Like if we're looking at New York, I would say, like one of their biggest problems is that, like you know, the Andiana Pacers could have played thirteen guys and the Knicks were struggling to play seven, right, like your bench is Landry's chant. I like, I think that there are problems beyond TIBs. And you know, Jalen Brunson is the best player on that team, and he seems like he

Enough, all right, Sarah?

Before I set you loose, so lets you get back to beautiful San Diego. Have you landed on UH and look at Of course it depends on who's drafted before five, But if the Jazz stay at five, who at this point do you believe is best case scenario for them to walk away with?

Yeah, I mean I have gone through probably five guys and I am I reserve the right to change this in two minutes as well in ten days, because I feel like that's how often I'm changing my mind on this. Right now.

If he was.

Available, my top choice there would be VG Edgecombe. I do really like Trey Johnson. I think at this point, like I feel like I'm out on Ace Bailey. I just think that, like with the fifth pick, you need to have someone that is that is going to feel like they could be a star. But also if they just turn into like a really really reliable role player that then you're really happy with that. But they have to have like starter potential and a little glimmer of

Well, we are a few weeks away. We'll see what the jazz end up doing. Sarah, thank you so much for the time. And Joyce San Diego, chatsoon, All right, chatsoon. Sarah Todd covers Utah Jazz for the des Ret News. She's on social media at NBA Sarah is where you find her.

I want to remind you guys.

The Live Night Events presents the twenty twenty five Granary Live Concerts Series powered by Nightingale College in Murdoc, Conde, Utah's number one Hyundai dealer. Experience outdoor concerts in the heart of downtown Salakes Granary District. Find more details on ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. Sarah stops about today courtesy of our friends at IFA Country Stores. When the seasons change, if you're like any good coach, you'll put together your game plan for a healthy, green lawn and

Next on the Drive, Tim McMahon dropping dimes for your NBA Daily Assists.

McMahon Van McMahan added dud in all the Land Texas flood as tickets, Muddy's and Mainan McMahon Van McMahon.

The Man.

Stanley Cup Finals begin tomorrow nights. NBA Finals start Thursday night. We are your home for both of those events here on the ESPN Utah Sports Network, So stay tuned for that.

Random, big, busy NBA news.

Cycle over the past twenty four hours. Our next guests good enough to give us some time. NBA Finals week. Tim McMahon, Happy Tuesday, sir, how are.

You, howdy, partner? How you doing?

I'm good, I'm good. So I see let's see. I see two Jordan eleven's. I see two Jordan threes. I see a Jordan four. I think that's a sick. I see two Jordan ones.

How many?

How many pairs of shoes are you bringing for this NBA Finals trip of yours?

Yeah, you are looking at ten pairs. There there will be a pair of my feet, then there'll be a pair of running shoes, and there will be some Sabrina one. That's what I'm hooping in these days. I can't wear I can't wear NBA signature shoes, So I got some Sabrinas.

Fair enough, best Jordan's.

I did not know you were a sneaker head, and I am a sneaker head in recovery. I have a decent, not great collection, but I don't like to spend six hundred dollars on shoes anymore. So best Jordan's in your opinion, Yeah, I don't spend six hundreds.

I like the threes best.

Yes, I am an old school guy.

You know. You see a lot of one stories. I do have some twos lows in there. I like the fours five. Yeah, I'm old school. I'm like back to the childhood type stuff. The threeses are my favorites.

Threes is the correct answer. All right.

I already buried the lead, Tim, because we actually have a big piece of jazz news to talk about. Austin Inge was announced yesterday as the Jazz President of basketball Operations, and his father, Danny, the CEO of the Jazz, will report to him. Justin Zenich, the general manager of the Utah Jazz, will report to him. So there there was a lot of clarity in the presser yesterday in a way that, quite frankly, Tim, we have not heard even

Xanik is going to do.

Most of the groundwork, so we actually have a little bit more clarity with the hierarchy of this front office, more so than we've had in a few years.

What's your reaction.

I believe that Danny Ainge is reporting to his son when I see it. But listen, Danny, like, he's not like you said, he's not a day to day guy. He wasn't handling the trade calls and you know down in admitted gritty to deal with the agents and you know at a GMS and whatnots been justin Xana's job. I think Danny's more of kind of like the senior advisor,

Yeah, and your point about Danny is a really good one.

And look, I've known the ages of my entire life, and you know, Danny doesn't need me to stand up for him, and quite frankly, neither does Austin. Austin does have a track record as a basketball decision maker for an organization that's really been the class of the league, among the class of the league for a long time, including the fourteen slash seventeen years he's been involved there. So their acumen and pedigree speaks for itself, it really does.

But the Danny point is.

Interesting, Tim, because I've honestly just wondered how invested he's been in this entire thing at all. And look, he's around, he's at games, and he's at workouts and such. But I also know he likes those riverside tea times, and I also know that he likes spending time with his grandkids. He's not one of those guys that just gives you a face value. Hey, I want to spend time with my family. Answer then goes and travels to Europe for

And look, it's not like Danny Ainge wanted to go work for the Utah Jazz exactly. He was recruited by Ryan Smith. And again, I don't necessarily know that this is going to change a lot for Danny because he wasn't doing the day to day stuff. You know, he wasn't grinding on the trade goals, and he wasn't you know, worrying about who they're going to sign to a two way contract. He wasn't dealing with the agents. That's all been Justin Zanik's job. So I don't I don't know

So the xantig portion tim Okay, so let's let's be very clear. If you are able to traverse your way into an NBA general manager job, you simply want to keep that job. And it is one of the best jobs that Justin probably ever thought he could get. H He was a finalist in Milwaukee, and the fact I think he actually on took the job.

No, he was, and then they he was like next in line, and I forgot the exact circumstances, but he kind of got Shank and that deal.

Right, and they gave it to Horst and then Dennis Lindsay moved on and jay Z was elevated to general manager. And Tim, I know that you said that you don't want to speculate on where his head is that with this, But where's his head out with this?

I haven't talked to him, and I'm not going to put words in a guy's mouth, you know. I mean jay Z has always been a very faithful, hardworking employee of the Utah Jazz. I don't know anything that would indicate that that would change. Yeah. The other thing is he's he's had some extremely serious health issues, you know, how to get a life stating transplant. You know, maybe taking a little bit off his plate would be beneficial.

So let's go back to what you reference.

And that was Austin's answer as a result of the question asked by our very own Sean O'Connell about the philosophy on tanking, and it was a great SoundBite. I mean, I've had a lot of people send it to me like, oh, I guess things are changing, but I don't believe it

I think something like that.

So next okay, So next year is the final time that the bill could come do And when you are a team that is in such bad need of a talent infusion, you cannot afford to lose a first round pick that could be, you know, a player that ultimately does hit, because they need players that are going to hit. So I understand what Austin said. I don't believe that

Can you read the exact quote to me? Do you have that in front of you?

It was simply if John asked him his philosophy on tanking, manipulating minutes, you know, in the name of better draft odds, and Austin simply said, you will not see that this year.

So you might see and you don't have to call it tank, and you might see long term transactions that make it even more difficult for the Jazz to put a winning product on the floor next year. Is that tanking or is that doing what's in the best long term interest of your franchise. I think, you know, if you take his statement at face value, they're not going to tank by coming up with mythical injuries. Okay, they're not going to tank by sitting there better players during

There is a one.

Okay, I was gonna wait. So look, they they they went all out to get the worst record in the league last year. They ended up with the fifth pick, which again was the worst scenario in that situation and by far the most likely. It's like forty seven point nine percent chance that if you have the worst record the league, that's where you're gonna land. So it's not a shock that's where they landed. Now, what did they pay in terms of player development? Maybe bad habits kicking in,

Shows, you what not.

But I think realistically, you know, they're not going to make win now grades this summer. I mean that just be silly. I think realistically, like we're looking at a team that's probably going to still land pretty high in the lottery. Now if you land fifth or sixth, you know, I'm not looking at the table right in front of me. But to get to your point, the fear isn't necessarily oh my gosh, we might have fifth or six pick in the drafting in it so we might get leapfrogged

So if they if they, if they want to go about their business of losing while being serious about trying to compete, I feel like it means they have to move off of marketing and probably Kessler, because if if Lowry plays seventy five games, if Walker plays seventy seventy five games, if Colin Sexton plays seventy seventy seventy five games, and John Collins was best, your point about Will is absolutely spot on. Okay, with a coach who has shown that he can maximize whatever talent he has if you

I would agree that, you know, they if they reach the conclusion that hey, we have got an a reasonable conclusion we've got to at least be in the top eight, that there's you know, they need to address some of the uh win probability issues. I had to put it lately via the trademarket, And I mean, do you think anybody in that roster is untouchable. No, Lowry wasn't untouchable last year. Now, their asking price for Lowry was I think other teams would say way too high, you know.

I agree with you. I love Walker, I love Larri, Larry's good man. Like I'm just trying to understand how this thing can work with the long term game in mind, because to your earlier point him, they're a marathon away from the better teams in the Western Conference. I mean, Chris Finch after the Minnesota loss, He's like, hey, there are thirteen teams in the West. They're going to be trying to compete for home court. And it's like, oh, okay, so it's probably the Jazz and the Blazers that aren't.

Yeah, and again, like they would listen to him last year, but they were asking for at least a couple of first round picks, and you know, and and then if you get into the discussions around now, what are the quality it picks? Blah blah blah. You know, the lottery things also interesting to me because honestly, if you're going to trade him, was he more or less valuable in the trade market before you gave him a full blown

Now.

I do think it's like Austin Ange has to find out doesn't mean he has to trade him, but he has to find out what the value is. And I'm not sure, you know, And just like you can't really evaluate Marketing's performance last year. I mean, it's such a weird situation, or they had nothing to play for. They're clearly tanking. You know, he's out of the line up every couple of games just because they're like, hey, if you play, we might actually actually win this one. But

So with the news today that the New York Knicks have moved off of Tom Thibodeau, you know, after going to the Eastern Conference finals, after winning fifty games in back to back years, making the playoffs for the last five the last three years, the most playoff wins belong to Boston, Denver, and New York is third. It's another example of an impulsive owner who'd rather play the kazoo for his dumb band that actually continue to build something that means something, and so where where I think and

You know, I think good ownership is hiring good people and trusting them to do their job and supporting them without meddling. You know, Jim Dolan is not a good owner.

Yeah, no, for sure.

He was asked about coach coach Tibbeau after Game six, and I thought he gave a really supportive, salient answer.

I wonder how much of this and this is I guess it was.

Haberstrow hopped on yesterday and pointed out because I asked him. I asked Tommy yesterday, what does the offseason look like in New York? Because I think they've got a cat problem. And the cat conundrum is interesting because there's so much to like about his game and then he just he doesn't close out, doesn't guard. You can put him in pick and roll and he looks like he's never done

The thought cross my mind. Definitely cross my mind. And I'll be honest with you. When they traded for Cat, one of the first things that I wondered was how is that going to work with Tibbs? Because it was not pretty in Minnesota. You know, I've reached out to some people to try to get some clarity there. I don't have that right now, so I don't want to get too far out, you know, kind of over my skis.

Yeah. I mean, look, I think they we're ahead of schedule by making to the Eastern Conference finals, but I think if they have premonitions of going beyond it, they've got serious, you know, issues with their roster.

They don't have depth either.

I mean a lot of people are saying, you know, and I said this too, because Kat and Jalen and everybody they just look gassed in the fourth. So I talked to you about can you find ten minutes for Delon right or Precious Achuwa?

But like their bench is bad.

I understand what Tom looks down his bench and is like, I've got to play these guys.

They're so much better. Do you think they move off of Kat?

I mean, you think that's a realistic thing and try to reformulate something different.

I think he would have to be an awfully big splash, an awfully big splash for that to happen. But we will see, you know, I will say this. I've talked to people in the NIXT front office and kind of the joke there is why do we go through all this trouble looking for players knowing the TIBs isn't going to play but seven anyway? So that's fair, you know, you can kind of chicken an egg that all you want. But their depth was not have quality depth. And listen,

Out most and maybe we need to talk about well, you know this because you covered him. I mean, Rick Carlisle is he's so good, you know, and it's been interesting listening to him after both the Knixt series and the Cavs series just kind of say we're flying right now, Like these teams just ran into a group. That's what stood what stood out most about the way the Pacers were able to figure it out they started ten and fifteen.

Yeah, I think just what stands out the most to me is just how unique their style of play is and how good they are at it and how well suited their personnel is for it. Like they play fast and they it's wide open spaces and it's perfectly tailored to Tyrese Halliburton. And you know, I see the roots of this whole thing in the Mavericks twenty eleven championship season when Kid handed the keys over to Jason Kidd and kind of really adapted and changed his offensive philosophy.

All right, Tim, Before I set you loose, there is the finals that's last to be played. We've already launched into so many dramatic offseason storylines that we forget. Starting Thursday, Oklahoma City and Indianapolis will do battle for the right to be the NBA champ. It feels hard, almost impossible for anybody to slow down this OKC train based off of what they've done all year. Quite frankly, twenty nine to one against the East. Can Indiana make it interesting?

Do you think.

I would have to pull the kind of miracle that he did in twenty eleven when he out coached Eric Spolstrom, not saying he can't do it, but saying it's going to be tough.

All right, man, Well enjoy the trip. I'm glad you have accurate and enough footwear, and I'm glad I've learned this information about you today. Good insight on the show and we'll chat soon.

Thanks, Tim, appreciate it, Ada, All right.

Tim McMahon covers the covers the NBA, for ESPN covers the jazz. He's the jazz guy for the Worldwide Leader at ESPN Underscore at McMahon is where you find him on Twitter. He did write a book about Luka Dotcic called Luka Dotcic in the Curse of Greatness, and the links are up on his Twitter page at ESPN. Underscore McMahon tim stops by today courtesy of our good friends at IFA Country Stores. Summer vacations in warmer weather are

So a lot of NBA news.

Austin Ange's press conference yesterday has been a big topic of conversation throughout the course of the news cycle in the market. And we have the NBA Finals beginning on Thursday night between Oklahoma City and Indiana. Stanley Cup Finals tomorrow Edmonton, Florida, a rematch of a barn burner for series last year for the right to lift Lord Stanley's Cup. Just a few weeks away from the NBA Draft and

Way I posed it to Tim. Okay.

So if we operate off the premise, then what Austin Ams said yesterday in response to Sean's question about his philosophy on tanking, when he said that you will not see that this year. If that's going to be the approach, what do they need to do in order to make sure this roster is simply comprised of players that you

It just would.

I'm gonna pose it to you the way I post it to Tim. If you want to hold onto your draft pick and also approach the season with integrity and not be unseerious about winning, I think you have to move on from Larry and Walker.

I really do.

You have to move on from a good share of your remaining roster. Now you could talk me into holding onto one of those pieces and frankly, Spence moving on from some of the younger pieces that you're maybe not entirely sold on. You could obviously move on from expiring contracts and and uh, the John Collins situation, that's one where you got to assume he's gonna he's gonna take that player option. So it leaves the Jazz with, you know,

So one of the interesting things to watch out for, based off of the conversations we've been having is Walker Kesseler is extension eligible. Okay, so I keep pointing to the summer of twenty twenty six as opposed to this offseason, because the Jazz could protection potentially have over seventy million dollars in cap space in twenty twenty six. Okay, so there's a fourteen point six million dollar free agent cap hold for Walker next season, but they could extend him

Now?

Remember, and by the way, I want to be clear, I've never received information to coroborate what I'm about to say, but it is a narrative that's been out there ever since Hayward left for Boston that when the Jazz told Gordon we are not extending you, you're going to play out the final year of your rookie deal and then you go bet on yourself and if you can go get a max deal, then we'll decide if we want to match it, which by the way, is completely within

And there are a lot of people that believe.

When the Jazz elected not to sign Hayward to the extension when he was eligible, that was the beginning of the end.

That was the beginning of.

The wheels going down the road where Gordon didn't feel appreciated, didn't feel like the Jazz wanted him. So he goes and gets his offer sheet from Charlotte. The Jazz max matched it, which meant Gordon was here for another four years. And then, of course Gordon Stay turned into a really good player. He was an All Star. I think a lot of people forget how good Gordon was here during

Gordon is here for another four years.

There are a lot of people that draw straight line between the decision not to extend him and Gordon's decision to leave.

I don't know if I believe that, but a lot of people do.

My whole thing with that has always been he wanted to go play for his college coach, and he wanted to sit at a different lunch table, and he wanted to play in a bigger market. He wanted to be a guy that was known as a star for a team like the Celtics instead of a team like the Jazz. I don't know how much of his decision to leave had to do with the Jazz decision not to extend them, but there are people that believe that to be true.

It just has.

The Jazz have been able to bring in free agents in the past that have worked out, so it's not like it's never worked.

Okay, But if the.

Jazz want to hold on to their pick, a top eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City. So it's very simple if you're listening, like, what is he talking about. If the Jazz are not in the top eight next year, their draft pick conveys to Oklahoma City. It's the Derek Favors trade. It is this build that's always become due. But after next year it goes to a situation where it would be two second round picks that are conveyed

You play with Victor Wembanyama.

Like you get a Victor Wembanyama, you get a Cooper Flag. You start to build, and people around the league see what you're building, and then agents are more inclined to talk about their clients playing for you because you have something. Right now, the Jazz have nothing. Nobody's watching Isaiah call. You're in calling their agent be like, dude, I want

Not aged as well as people thought that they would.

Now, the jury is still out because there are plenty of picks that have to convey. The best player you got for Donovan Mitchell, who at the time was a twenty five year old superstar player just entering his prime, was Larry is very good. Obaji played pretty well for Toronto, didn't really work here for whatever reason.

Colin has been solid.

Right.

He's a guy that at least brings energy and plays hard every night, and when he gets going offensively, he can get some things happening. He's not a great defensive player either. The Jazz are so small with the guards they elect to play. Like when you watch the finals, watch the wing players from Indiana and Oklahoma City. They're all like three or four inches taller than any of the wing players on the Jazz roster. They need length

You guys are gonna watch a.

BYU is generationally special, and if the Jazz are able to make that happen, then we have a different conversation about all of it. If they were able to move up to one this year, we have a different conversation about all of it.

That's all. You need.

One bolt of lightning, one ping pong ball bouncing your way changes the entire direction of your project. So you have to put yourself in a position to capitalize on where you are in the process to make sure you keep the assets you need to keep building. And that has to mean marketing is on the table. It has to mean Walker's on the table. It has to mean, quite frankly, everyone's on the table. And then you kind of see where you go. One more thing before we

Next year.

Could be I'm not saying it is, but next year the Jazz have So next year the following players technically are on the clock, and I'll tell you why. So next year, Taylor Hendrix has a six point one million dollar number. He's that's his money, and it's guaranteed. It's fully guaranteed all year. The year after next, So twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, the Jazz have a team

It'll make him harder to move.

They might just do what they did with Heyward and say you're playing out the final year of the deal and then take calls to try to move him. Heyantay George on the books for four point two mill next year the year after you guessed it, team option six point four mil. Bryce Sensiba on the books two point six mil. Next year, team option year after four point eight, Isaiah Callier on the books two point six team option two point seven the year after that, meaning this Taylor, Cody, Keyante, Bryce,

Needed to make this thing relevant.

And if you're going to go all in on being serious about competition next year and maintain the ability to keep your draft capital, we could see a roster sure that is stripped down by Austin Ainge this offseason. Vegas has already released odds for the next head coach of the New York Knicks. This is so wild, it says Mike Malone. It's supposed to be Michael Malone. We're not supposed to call him Mike Malone. Michael Malone your favorite. One to one, then it's Jay Wright, Jeff Van Gundhy.

So there you go.

We'll get back to some NBA. But time now for some soccer. Been excited for this all day when I saw his name on the rundown. Let's welcome in the head coach over Al Salt Lake Pablo Mastruetti on a Tuesday afternoon. Pob's my guy, so good to talk to you. Happy tuesdaypoint. Oh no, oh no, is it?

Is it Trey? We got traded at it? Oh?

Yeah, sorry, Pablo sends his regrets.

Is he dodging me?

No, he says he'd be He'd be happy to get on with you another time this week. But he's a he's literally been in a three hour meeting trying to obviously get some things moving ahead, moving forward, getting things done.

Yeah, and some things have to move forward real quick. Do you feel better about your Denver Nuggets since it's been the only team in the West that made okay see even kind of uncomfortable.

No moral victories? I mean, am I proud of how they withstood the onslaught that is, the OKAC Thunder and Shay Gilles Alexander sometimes known as Shameless Grifter Alexander. Yeah, but the Nuggets just have so many problems and issues of their own. It's kind of a hollow victory.

I guess.

Let me follow up real quick. You said no moral victories, right, I did say that, all right? Moving over to our local soccer club that has gone seven matches.

Now, without a win. Look, man, you know I love you guys.

You know I want to give you space here and try to support the endeavor and try to spin things as positive as possibly can. Trey, I think this is as bad as it's been in a number of years. Is that kind of a sentiment over there with the club?

Certainly from a results perspective. Yeah, the last seven game winless run was in twenty sixteen, at the tail end of the Jeff Gasar era. For those who participated in Pablo's postgame media zoom on Saturday, you could sense the frustration.

Does that mean you guys will have two games in the month of June.

That is correct June fourteenth at home, when we honor Nick Romondo in June twenty eighth in Kansas City, and that is because the league is taking some international breaks for both the Club World Cup and.

The Gold Cup.

Jeez, well, that gives you a lot of time to reflect, a lot of time to train.

You know.

Bill Simmons has this theory that started in nineteen ninety nine. He calls it the Patrick Ewing theory and it's predicated on the nineteen ninety nine New York Knicks where Patrick Ewing got hurt and then somehow, some way Marcus can be figured out how to play center at a high level. Larry Johnson, Spree, Allen Houston. That group went to the

Our guy ZK.

Chris Camaronnie on the program has had this walking line this year when I ask him, what does RSL do well, he says, they Diego Luna well, and that's about it. So Diego makes his way to the US men's national team for the World Cup. How long is he going to be gone, Trey, He's.

Going to be gone, depending how the US does. I could see him being gone until June or sorry, July tenth.

Let's say, all.

Right, so you're going to play at least four maybe five matches without Diego, and even if it's not Diego scoring, he creates most of the chances.

Our guy, Big Willie goals.

Shout out to Big Willie got his first goal, but it was due to the service of da Go.

Uh.

He has been everything and sometimes the only thing in the attack for this club.

How do you make up for his absence.

It's gonna be hard. Obviously, you're gonna be missing Dominic Martuk during this month of June, as well as Diego, Luna, Gozo and Ripel. They are in international duty right now, but they'll be back for the fourteenth. Diogo Gonsalvez, who you know has been hurt and out, he will be back on the fourteenth. So you're gonna have to find a way to do something without the gravity and quality that Diego Luna provides and could it be Willie, could

I'm down, Rick Patino, all right, let me because your reference Diogo and Jason on the show last week broke the news that Diogo was left off the road trip that included Austin in LA. But it was not because of health, it was because of disciplinary reasons. You guys don't think of announced anything official. Can you shed some light on what happened?

Yeah, Basically, in his first training session back, I think Pablo was kind of disappointed with how let's say, maybe a lack of vigor that Diogo was taking his rehab and his approach to healing and getting back into the mix, and Pablo made the decision to leave them home. So disciplinary may have been a strong word. It was kind of internal, I guess, if you want to look at it that way, And it was really just Pablo's disappointment.

Well, I mean, let's stay in this space for a moment, because to me, in my opinion, track the next few matches, we'll say a lot about Diogo, and my hope is he looks at the current situation, understands that he is literally the only designated player on the roster, and realizes that Diego's gone for a minute and the other pieces

Him, you know what I mean?

Yep, I think you're absolutely right, Spence, and I think you know we're gonna find out what he's made of, right is he does he want to come back with a chip on his shoulder and diego gone like you said, and be like, hey, guys, I'm the man, I'm the number ten, follow me, And that's what I think everybody wants to see. I do think the locker room still believes in him as a human and as a well

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

And look, if he is as bright as Pablo says he is, and as you say he is, and Kurt and everybody else, if he really has that that that skill set, maybe it just maybe it does just take one or two matches where finally something clicks and he's been over in MLS for over a year now, and he gets what it's like to play in this league.

Yeah, I think you're right, and I think everybody from Pablo, Kurt Jason, you know, the assistant coaches, the staff in the locker room, I think everybody does have that belief. Clearly nobody is more disappointed. And maybe let's call it a lack of production. What is he He's probably played twenty four games since arriving. I think he scored three goals, and it's been it's been a tough go and not

Will, All right, So I've asked Pablo, Jason, and Kurt the following question, and I'm going to pose it to you. Chicho Wrongo seventeen goals, twelve assists, last year, Andres Gooms thirty goals, nine assists, and Oh Anderson Julio nine goals, three assists, Matt Crooks three goals, five assists.

So what is fair?

Because you've heard the criticism yours online as anybody, including my fourteen year old teenage nephew. You know, you hear from fans, you probably hear from media, you probably hear on this show that I view it as a failure of whatever.

I don't know exactly where to aim here.

I'm not going to put out an instaple on my Twitter to have people vote on whose fault this is. But it has been a failure to not bring in reinforcements juxtaposed to all of the talented attacking players. You guys either sold or traded. Why what happened? Who's I'm not a who's to blame?

Guy?

So I'll ask you the same way I asked Jason.

What's fair to say about the inability of ownership the front office talent evaluators? What have you to replace potentially the most exciting attacking group, honestly, that we may have ever had here last year?

Yeah? No, Look, it's a fair question, right, And I think you start by saying for the eighty eighth time right like, there was no way to not do the Andres Gomez deal. Clearly, the chiecho situation, nobody anticipated the lack of production in the second half last season. I think you can say that when the reinforcements were brought in last August, and that's Dominic Marchuk, Lachlan Brook, Diogo,

Of that now.

I think, you know, there's no one silver bullet that could have fixed all that goal production and all that productivity that you just outlined, not just Chico and Andres, but Crooks for sure. Anderson Julio. Clearly the Elias Manuel trade with New York did not work out as anticipated, the timing of Elias saying I object to being traded from New York to anywhere else in MLS. You know, that came at a time that was very difficult for us to find suitable replacement to go into Conca Calf.

So if and I've talked about this on a couple of different occasions, So if the information that was out there as you guys were close to getting other players across the line during the primary transfer window. So if that's the case, it should be realistic to expect players across the line quickly when the summer window opens. And I believe that gives you thirteen matches, and some of that is League's Cup, right, So that's enough time to

I've heard you say that, I've heard Cameronie say that. I disagree with you, guys. I mean, there's seventeen regular season games left in a row.

You shoot right up.

The standings, so well, I look again, not lost a ton of margin for errors. I guess how I would put it. I'm very optimistic in the talent in the locker room the cohesion and maybe adding a couple of difference makers, you know, hopefully a Mechaanelli is back in four weeks and twelve, which is kind of prest reaction and trying to avoid a stress fracture back there, you know, in his fifth metatarsal on his right foot. So look,

All right, before I set you loose.

Another interesting dynamic of multiple, multiple different interviews I've done is Pablo joining the show and saying that he's been informed by ownership that this whole ethos of developing and selling players is no longer the thing. They do not want to necessarily sell a young player who has a bright future that could make a difference here, and namely I'm talking about Diego.

Right.

Then Kurt joins the show the next week, and he was a little bit more noncommittal. Hey, look, this is a contextualized conversation where if you get the right nobody is untradeable, Babe, Ruth Will Chamberlain. We could keep going like nobody's untouchable, that doesn't exist, and if the rite offer comes along that makes sense for the club, I'd imagine you'd still do it. And then Jason joined the show and basically says what Pablo was alluding to was a.

Little bit overstated, is how I'll put that. She had some light here on.

What some people believe as a new approach and other people believe is not necessarily the deal.

Yeah, I think both are right, right, Like I think Pablo has been communicated to that, Hey, we're not just going to keep running young guys out there and try to flip them. Obviously we did well last year with Barajas and then Andre Spilmes, Right, but particular to Diego, Luna, it's it's you have it right, Like.

There's a number.

I don't know what the number is, but at some point somebody's an to us with a number that's going to make us think long and hard. Now that being said, I do believe that these Starts and others at the Miller Group are like, Okay, as we're learning how this league works and how this sport works around the world, what needs to happen for us to keep Diego Luna here for a long time and a Mecca and Nelly and Justin Glad And how do we build a core that we can then add around that will compete for

Sound grumpy man, all right, Well.

Nikola Jokic is untradable. If you want to go in that direction.

He's going to look so good in a Nick jersey. Good luck with Kat and Denver.

Him and Michael Malone are reunited in MSG. I'll become a Knicks fan.

Love it.

Hi, buddy, thanks for the talent yatsoo, Thank you, pleasure, Ailes. Welcome in Ryan from the dish pros. Give him a call at eighth one four to two four dish where you can save a bunch of money on a bunch of different things.

What's going on, Ry.

Benk's thanks so much.

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Joining me live in studio a fourteen year old teenage girl.

Uh, what what is this?

Porter?

What?

What did he make you play? What is this?

So?

Madison beer? Madison beer? Also, what are we familiar? What do we watch it on television? I don't know. It was John Cena hosting wipe Out a minute ago.

Which was no better than what we're watching now. It's some TNT movie. Dave Fox, you okay with headphones. With the headphones, but I'm making it work. You think this place could afford?

Okay, did you say I got half an ear in Madison beer? Madison Beer.

Yeah, fifteen minutes was the name of that song, all right, which is about how long I'm Gonna lie?

That sounded like, uh like Sabrina Carpenter like pop?

What is that?

Well, it's I mean, it's it's basically E d M. But she's yeah, she's a pop artist. It's still got a couple of really good songs.

When did you get into EDM music?

I've been in my entire life really, it's so weird. Was new it was called new wave.

They didn't have d M. Well, but it was disguise as a different name.

Okay, that's funny. That's that's a good point. Now, so you've you've always been in like house music?

Yeah, I like house music when you were DJ Dave Fox, and I also like, like, you know, eclectic, like ny.

That kind of thing. Let's rock a little before you get out of it.

I don't ever give you that you know, or or I'm a big enigma. Yeah, I'm a big enigma guy too.

Okay, so you just run the spectrum. Yeah, Moby Moby. He does a little bit of everything.

And and to be clear, you're not constantly taking molly and listening to d M house music.

You are drug free?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I'm just making sure because most people love DM they like the glow sticks and you know all that stuff.

I just like I like the beat. I like the sound of it. You know, That's what I'm rocking when I'm driving down the screen.

Well, you're an upbeat, positive guy.

I've always been a glass half full always have you?

Sure? All right? So are you? I'm always looking forward?

Are you full about the Utah Jazz offseason project with a new basketball decision maker in charge?

Well, if you're asking me about the higher I think it's good. I think it's too You know what, We spent hours after this announcement trying to figure out exactly what the hierarchy was, and Ryan Smith made it very clear that Austin Ange is the guy. He an Ange even you know, mentions that he did, you know, wisely mention that everything runs through Ryan. Ultimately he is, you know, after all, the governor of the team. So I and you know, it's not like anybody wants to throw out

It was just going to happen. That's the trajectory he's on.

And I think Ryan even mentioned that that he thought that might have happened last year and that he missed his opportunities.

So I think it's a good hire.

It gives the organization even more voices, which they probably need.

I don't know how much.

I think we all know Danny doesn't want to, you know, kill himself working, and he shouldn't. He's earned, you know, whatever semi retirement you want to call it. Xani's been through some health things, so there's a lot of I mean, this is good, this is really good.

Yeah, I mean the nepotism thing.

In fact, Porter, since Dave brought it up, I want you to take the opportunity to remind Dave and our audience what the official stance is of the drive as it pertains to nepotism.

Yeah, officially from this show. They tell your sounden this too, Dave. No, nepotism can't win with him. Don't like it?

Are we are anti nepotism on the show?

Okay, but that's fine. But that's what I just said. By the way, my son's an attorney. He's not even in the media, so that's never.

Going to choosing you of nepotism.

I don't think your son's Walton in here anytime. So No, I've seen Andrew on the sideline before.

With some Sibeliers, Fox not a box.

I just want to be clear that the audience knows the official stance of the drive as we are anti neputible.

Well, then I'm guessing you agree with me that there isn't a blatant piece of nepotism on this or do you not agree with me?

No, Dave, it's a bit.

It's a bit because our textures don't really understand that I'm being facetious because I have a famous father.

It's a bit that we do on the show.

But no, here's the deal, like in my case I am the famous, you are, No, here's the deal, like Danny's pedigree speaks for itself. He doesn't need me to stand up for him, And Austin's pedigree speaks for itself. He worked for the Boston Celtics for seventeen years. The Boston Celtics have been the pre eminent franchise in pro basketball, along with the Lakers, well really forever, but certainly the

He left.

He he has a resume that indicates he has qualified for the job he's been hired for. I find it interesting that apparently Danny and Justin are reporting to Austin.

Yeah, that part's interesting. What if he just fires his dad that dad, you're playing too much golf.

Here's the part I don't get is how And I don't know that much about how companies, you know, break down their levels of leadership. But is it the CEO generally the top guy? Yeah, I ahead of the president.

Yeah. But look, here's here's the deal. Like get that. And Porter brought this up earlier.

You know, Danny technically retired when he left the Celtics.

That's true, he did.

He wanted to move out here. So I've known the ages of my entire life. Okay, So the deal with Danny is he's not one of these guys that just says, you know, I I want time to spend with my family and then goes and travels to Eup for six months out of the year. Danny is a committed father and grandfather and wanted to move out to Utah because the majority of his kids are here.

So he retires from Boston.

And also remember he definitely had one heart attack, and I think he may have had two. He had heart issues at the end of his time with Boston, so he left to retire to take care of himself, to move out here to be with his family. And he did not move out here with a plan of working for Ryan. Ryan recruited Danny for months before this transaction actually became official, because Danny made it very clear. I want freedom to see my grandkids. I like my tea

It really has.

Been more or less a quasi senior advisor role. The title is CEO, but Danny's not a Desions Bank basketball center your day at seven am. No, he's present for games. I'm sure he's present for these workouts. I'm sure he's present in draft rooms. But I think this is even a further indication that Danny might take another step in the direction of just living the rest of his life

It's it's it's a great thing altogether.

But again, the bottom line is Austin has a resume that indicates he has qualified for the job.

Yes, and maybe in Danny's case, we're reading too much into the title of CEO. Now They'll take, for instance, a lot of guys who owned big companies, big corporations, The first thing they.

Do when they retire is they become what the chairman of the board.

Maybe, well, there isn't a chairman of the board for the Jazz, so maybe CEO is that version of chairman of the board in the case of you know how Ryan sets everything up. But again, getting back to your point, Austin's proven himself, and he's proven himself repeatedly this year. They stumbled towards the end, but they didn't panic like, oh, a certain team in New York did uh?

Did they did? The Knicks? Did they fire their coach? The Knicks and the Jets? They fired my guy? They fired my guy? How much did you really like that guy? Though? Tom? I love them? Okay? Oh yeah, Tom forever? He was just assistant. Why don't they bring back Van Gundy?

He's on the Vegas list of the Vegas released the list I saw, and Jeff is like, but Malone's the highest.

Malone is one to one. He's a New York guy too. I didn't mean to turn right there on that.

No, no, but but ultimately I just think it was a scenario where Danny didn't agree to come work for Ryan unless Ryan agreed that Danny was gonna be able to have freedom, and and I think that that kind of remains in place, and I think Austin's hiring indicates

Know, but I think I feel like Xanik after his last medical situation kind of referred to well, I didn't say he wanted to step back, but he's he's been through a lot as well, and maybe maybe this will help him.

Maybe it's such a bad thing too. You know, there's a lot that.

Goes into this when you're looking for players and you're scouting, and you're in you're in Europe, and you're all over the world, and hey, the more eyeballs you have, the better.

So but I can't.

I don't know.

I've never neither of us have had a conversation with Justin to ask him exactly what he feels about that. I thought it was interesting that, well, Danny Ainge was at the press conference yesterday, but he was kind of just in the back. He wasn't up on the podium, and that's the way it should have been. I mean, it was, you know, the guy that hired Austin and Austin but that's a good question. But I'm not as cynical as you to believe that. Maybe Ryan didn't tell

Yeah, But again it gets back to the glass half full. That's me.

I'm you know, you're more America's guests, and it's you know, there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our I wish I believe, we all have our suspicion that Disneyland was a real place and not a theme park. Dave, I wish I believed in children's fairy tales too. I just what do you mean it's not a real place. I've been going there my whole life. It is a real place, and it's a lot of fun. I live in the real world.

Okay, so the other part of me will exist where I'm a cynic and you're a glass at full.

Yeah, you think they're not gonna tank next year?

You know, your buddy asked that question and the answer, let me ye, I think Austin's answer was like three words.

You know, it said, you want to see that, you want to see this here? What's he supposed to say?

He can't literally answer a question that's phrased that way with yeah, we're gonna tank again.

Let's go. They got fined for taking they're not.

The question that was asked was asked in such a way that that's the only possible response he could have gotten.

Well, I'm not as cynical as you to believe that he had to say what he had to say. He can't say yeah, we're tanking.

So so, ultimately, just no part of me believes that they are going to put their best foot forward to try to win as many games as they can next year.

It would actually be the direct wrong line to take.

Hey, that part, I agree with you, But I don't begrudge Austin's answer.

No.

First of all, I thought it was an awesome SoundBite. I thought it was great. It was like I dropped them like you're not going to see that next year, and then boom silence.

Everybody's like, Okay, good a new direction.

But the fact that he invoked the word tanking into the question that made that answer perfectly honest in a way, because there are so many different ways to manipulate your record. And by the way, didn't we learn this year you don't have to finish dead last. Let's be honest. They just need to be in the bottom eight, right, Yeah, to preserve well.

And that's the issue, I mean, as much as anything else this year, based off of where they're at, based off of what they need, and based off of how far away they are from not just the top teams in the West. I mean, there's not a move they could make to move them from like fifteen to eleven, let alone fifteen.

It doesn't exist.

So based off of how far away they are and how much they need, keeping that draft capital for next year's draft cycle is as big of a priority as anything else that they do this year.

It just is, I agree, But there's other ways to do it.

First of all, you play every single one of your young guys like they have been the one caveat in all this is what do you do with market Because if marketing is playing every game and these veterans are playing every game, it's going to be really hard to stay below eight. I'm not saying that they're going to be a playoff team, but that's going to be more difficult.

So they're going to have to kind of massage that a little bit.

Well, that's manipulating minutes, or trade them. That's the only So if we're going to say that what Austin Ainge said yesterday was truthful and he meant it. And the approach now that there's a new boss, okay, because Ryan told us all he's the boss, and the edict from the boss is we are no longer unseious about competition. We are going to approach this with integrity. We're going to try our best. This roster is too good to

You can't get you know, a Paul.

George Donovan Mitchell type hall, but you can get probably three to four picks, maybe a couple of young players.

I don't even know if you want players, you just want picks really well, you have to really young players.

You're right, you have to get you have to acquire players because you have to match salaries.

But it also wave them. They're good at that wave Lowry. No, no, no, no. The players that you bring in a giant package of things, players, draft picks, other assets, and then you wave the player you don't want.

Well, okay, but he's he's good enough that you can get three to four picks and probably two to three young players you want to learn about perfect and who knows who the young players are. But if the NBA finds out that the Jazz are willing to move off of lowry marketing, Austin Ainge will receive multiple phone calls from other general managers saying, okay, what do you want? And if Austin and says okay, let's we'll do four picks, we'll do three unprotected in one swhile, and then we

I don't think there's any chance they do that. Well.

Walker's good, Walker's really good. He impacts winning. So if you're going to do the thing where we are playing our best players every night and we're not making up injuries, and we're not after we get fine, we're not saying okay, watch this Walker Kesseler shooting ten threes a night. If we're not doing any of those corny things anymore and you're trying your best to win games based off the personnel you have, you have to change your personnel.

You're too good.

Because if we are sitting here, Dave, next year at this time and the Jazz have won thirty four games, they're in trouble. And Mark Tatum gets up to the podium and says, and the ninth pick in the NBA draft goes to the Utah Jazz, and that goes to the team that's about to win the title. Because the Jazz decided they wanted to try r I really hard this year. It will step, It will take the Jazz a couple of steps in the wrong direction.

That is worst case scenario is what it is. I completely agree with you on that.

And it's and whether we want to call it tanking or roster manipulation, that's going to be have to be the way they do this because they do not want to go through what they had to do last year, where we all sat there and looked at Larry Mark and looking perfectly healthy and not playing. They have to approach this a completely different way. And one way would be your right to move him. But it's not just him, by the way, I mean, John Collins helps you win games. Colin Sexton helps you win games.

That's my point.

All these veterans, honestly, they in some respects, a lot of these guys got to go.

I think finally you can move off of Collins and Sexton. I don't know about Clarkson just because he's not good anymore. I know everyone loves him, show love nice guy painted on the locker, throw him in, or just keep him on the team for fun. But his best years are behind him. But what changes this year? And that's why I can continue to look at the summer of twenty twenty six as far as the off season that makes

It's the final year their deal.

So instead like a GM last year is like, wait, you want me to trade for John Collins, I have to pay him twenty five mil this year and twenty five mil next.

Now they'll pick up an expiring car.

Now his contract expired, so it actually helps you next offseason if you want cap space.

Same thing with Sexton. Same thing with Clarkson.

Clarkson's on the books for fourteen point two, Collins on the books for nineteen point one. So you can move off of those contracts even if the players aren't necessarily highly sought after, simply because their money expires.

And teams love those kind of deals where they're acquiring expired contracts. The Lowry's isn't I mean, they just gave him a max deal.

Yeah, he's good enough because you can find a home for him. I mean, he's good enough. You can find a home for him. So that's that's kind of got to be the play, you know. And then next off season is when they could have potentially seventy million dollars in cap space unless they decide to do this extend Walker. So they have the ability to extend Walker this off season. Now, if you want to move off of Walker, which is a tough ask because he's good and he's still young, they won't extend him.

That makes him harder to trade.

So they would do what they did with Hayward and say, oh, you think you've earned a deal, huh, well, you're going to play the last year of your rookie deal. Then you have to go bet on yourself, and that's what Gordon did. He had a really good year, then got a max offer sheet from Charlotte.

Then they matched the offer sheet.

Gordon played here for four more years before he gave everyone the middle finger and went to Boston so they could extend Walker unless they've done their calculation, believing we're too good with this group if we want to hold onto our draft pick. And also back up what Austin said, mean we're going to try hard this year.

They've got to change their person. I don't know that he actually used the phrase try hard this year. But if yes, but again circling all the way back to where this started. If if the question had been phrased in such way that the word tanking wasn't in it, maybe he gets a little bit different answer. You can't even say roster manipulation because everyone knows that's tanking.

It was the way yeah ask the question. It was the right way to ask the question.

Well maybe, but you weren't going to get an answer with that, So that's just the way he.

Got an answer. Well, and so if he's telling the truth.

If you or you weren't going to get a well, I don't want to say honest answer because I'm not putting words in Austin's mouth, but he he doesn't have any other choice to answer that question any other way.

That's That's what I'm.

Saying, And what I'm saying is if he's telling the truth, they need to change their personnel. Yeah, because right if market In, Kessler, Sexton, and Collins all play seventy and seventy five games, they win thirty to thirty five games this year, I.

Completely agree with the worst place to be and if they had, if they had played them all last year, they they probably would have won upwards of thirty. I would think the year before they won nearly that they did. They went over that. So yeah, I'm one hundred.

And then you know where they drafted the year before tenth Yeah, and you know where that would go this year Oklahoma City, who's about to win.

The championship, and that tenth pick hasn't worked out so well, we'll see where that goes. But I mean, frankly, their next two picks worked out better. Uh, We're going to find out in the next thirty to forty five days. We'll see exactly what the new president is made of. When he starts shaking things up, it's gonna be a lot of fun. I guarantee three words you will not hear at his mouth big game hunting.

No, I think I'll steer clear of that.

No way, Austin, if you're listening, you should fire your dad.

Do not say that, all right? You reference the.

You reference the overly irrational, emotional, ridiculously uh misguided decision of the worst owner in pro sports to fire Tom Thibbeteau today. It's an example of why the Knicks have been irrelevant for twenty five years because they make these in the moment, irrational decisions based off of emotion that you're feeling right now, instead of having a big picture point of view. So juxtapose that to what Ryan's decided

Knicks have players the jazz tone.

But what Ryan has done is locked in a head coach through twenty thirty a front office that now is locked in as well, and it takes away the ambiguity and the unknown nature of who's calling the shots in the way that the Knicks have simply just allowed the decisions to be to and fro from the win, firing good coaches all the time. So there is that while you need players, at least the Jazz have a coaching staff and a front office that is locked in like that.

The right way.

Well answered, you answered your own question perfectly right there, because you look at what here's the difference. You got the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals with an opportunity to go to the NBA Championship Series, firing a coach, and then a team with the absolute worst record in the NBA re signing their coach to an extension, and

So and it also tells you.

That Ryan is confident in his front office and what they're going to do, and that he knows within a few years they'll be competitive. They'll start being competitive, and he wants to make sure that guy is there running it. I don't know what the world the Knicks are doing, other than you may end up with an even better coach.

Well, it's it's just it's an example of a of an owner that's an idiot, and that's who Jim Dolan is and hopefully Ryan's decision.

Will Hardy's won thirty four percent of his games. He has a nine year runway.

Tom Thibodeau just won fifty games back to back and went to the Eastern Conference finals of the playoffs four or five years one coach of the year and he got fired.

Can you imagine if, I mean, if Will Hardy wasn't retained, he'd be instantly highable. Yeah, because people understand what he really is about. But the Jazz are smarter than that. Yeah, they are all right.

David, are you wearing that on TV tonight? You look change? I'll change. I know you should wear that. I mean sometimes I can't get away with that like you can. I have to look more respectable. It's a little stuffy in there with the suits of times, but I'm.

More a hoodie. A couple months ago in the winter. I should have saved that for a night you were on with me. Are we hoody with a sport code?

Are we warm enough to enter the Dave Fox in shorts phase on?

Yeah?

I do that quite a bit, but I don't do it if it's a show like what you and I are doing tonight where you can see my leg.

Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants to see that. What's coming up? On five questions?

I don't want to reveal all the five questions, but I will say we have discussed at least two of them.

Here.

We're going to throw in an r SO question, a golf question. We had a couple of locals. By the way, Zach Blair impressed the summer. He's both qualified for the US Open. What about doctor Freestone?

Congrats? Doctor Freestone's doing good.

I texted him the other day on an issue and he got right back.

Do you want to share what the issue was on air? Or but you're you're healthier?

Good to go? Yeah?

All right, Dave, I'll see it a little bit. Okay, Steve Buddy the Great Day Fox. I'll be on TV with Dave tonight at ten thirty five km why you five Questions with Spence shout out Dave Fox little Enya. On the way out of the show today, I got to I'll admit I was not anticipating Dave as he was going on his diet tribe about how much he loves house music and DM to drop a I also like a Enya.

And I didn't.

I didn't expect that from Dave today. Not that a little and you have nice and relaxing on a Tuesday.

Yeah, Dave's Dave Fox's music taste is very interesting to me.

That's uh. That guy's one of one. That's for sure. He is one of one.

I'll be on television with Dave tonight at ten thirty five on km Y. You we call it five Questions with Spence. Of course, the big news of the day today Tom Thibodau has been fired by the New York Knicks, which has driven a lot of our conversation today Juxtaposed to what the Jazz have elected to do while locking in their coach in their front office while trying to

It's so hard because, and I mentioned this before, I would like you to only make that move if you've already got the guy there, right, And the name that makes sense is Jay Wright. He's the biggest name in coaching that doesn't have a job at the moment. He coached like your entire roster to a national championship at the college level. But everyone that I know of that has been around Jay Wright in the last two years says that he's not coming back to coaching, and they

I don't think Jeff would want. Well, see, here's the hard thing. Like we've been talking the past couple of days, I and I do genuinely wonder how Justin Zanik feels about everything that's happened, But he's an NBA general manager and you want to hold onto that job. So if the Knicks called Jeff and they inquired about whether or not he'd want to coach, that's you're the head coach

That's the thing. He's worked for that guy before.

That's the one where it's it's like, you know, it looks good on paper, but he's tried that and you probably know as good as anyone. Folks that work with James Dolan don't usually leave that building feeling great about James Dolan. So the odds of him, you know, being stoked to come back to New York is not great. And you know, maybe that gives him leverage on the other side.

So we'll see. Michael Malone is the favorite in Vegas to get that job. We'll see how this plays out, all right.

The Stanley Cup Finals begin tomorrow. You can hear the Stanley Cup Finals and the NBA Finals on our radio station Edmonton, Florida, a rematch of what was just a barn Burner seven game series last year. And then of course, okay, see an Indiana start on Thursday.

So there you go. Not a lot of local stuff going on right now.

We're kind of entering that dead period with the summer calendar, but we'll do our best account to keep you in the loop with everything that we have going on. Porter what comes our way on a Wednesday edition of the radio show.

Halfway through the work week. We'll get you ready for the rest of the week. Josh Furlong talking some Utah football, some college football at large, Neil Smith, the latest on the NHL, maybe some Utah Hockey Club as well, and then NBA action for the final hour.

First the NBA Daily Assist with our guys Zach.

Harper of the Athletic and then we'll go more jazz centric with Andy Larson of the Solid Tribute.

All right, there you go. That'll be a fun Wednesday show. Join us for that. We will say good night. Special thank you to Sarah Todd, Tim McMahon, Trey Fitzgerald and Dave Fox for any of the sound you may miss from the show. Website is ESPN seven hundred Sports dot com. Download our mobile app and take us on the go. ESPN seven hundred app is available for free in the App Store or the Google play Store. Then, finally, for what we do in our space every afternoon for four hours,

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It actually helps out the show reporter. I'm spent saying to night, enjoy your Tuesday evening, talk to you on Wednesday. Drive as well as you can find it right here AUDIESPN seven hundred