Sound Van McMahon Van McMahon. That is Dan old Land, Texas flood as big as mud. He's a man man, Van McMahon, Van McMahon, deepn man.
Good day to have our guy on the show Tuesday afternoon.
An old friend is in town.
Quinn Snyder and the Atlanta Hawks are here to take on the Utah Jazz and Van McMahon himself, Tim McMahon the first hit in twenty twenty five.
Timmy, Happy Tuesday. Are you doing, Hony Barterer, misteryear.
Great to have you on. I'm on a daylight today. First, I just want to know your deepest and darkest secrets. What are the New Year's resolutions? And are we still on track?
They're the same old and I'm already off track, So we'll see what we can do to get back on track.
Makes two of us? Makes two of us?
All right, weird, weird question. You're used to it right out of the gates here. How should How should jazz fans remember Quinn Snyder as he's in town here coaching the Atlantaks tonight?
I mean I think they should remember him fondly. He took over a total rebuild. You know, he helped build that franchise up to the point where we can debate the semantics of contender. But you know, a team that was at the number one seed, a perennial playoff team, you know, a very good team that just couldn't get over the hump. And then you know that the inding wasn't the smoothest thing ever. But honestly, it was time. It was time for that chapter in jazz history to end.
And it was going to end whether Quinn decided that he was leaving or not. So I think there should be nothing, but you know, but cheers for Quinn Snyder. I do have a confession. Have I told you the Quinn Snyder Sally Jesse Rafael story?
No?
And now it's all I want to hear.
Okay, So you know when I say Sally Jesse Rafael, do you know what I'm talking about? Okay? So, Quinn did not know that people referred to the Red Frames as a Sally Jesse Rafael until my big mouth flapped it to him in Vegas and he was mortified. This is at the NBA Cup. I saw Quinn in Vegas at the NBA Cup. You know, you know, Quinn, Yes,
just shoot up and like oh my. He could not believe that it was something that was a discussion point, and he was like, he was like, you know, I don't want to do anything extra to bring attention to myself. I'm never going to wear those again. I was like, come on, Quinn, sure enough, he's been in the black frame since. I hope, I hope maybe he'll have he'll
let it go. But some folks in the Hawks front office thought it was pretty hilarious, so of their PR staff, their PR staff, well, we helped to decide the next day and said, yeah, we've kind of made a conscious decision not to fill him in on that one. And sure, sure enough, I opened my mouth and so much for the salary Jesse Rafiel.
And knowing Quinn he will not let that go.
Okay, I think, yeah, when when he didn't wear them, when he didn't wear him the next name, I was like, all right, then, I you know, I check in and I you know, obviously when I turned the Hawks on league pass, it's one of the first things I try to see, is he in him? Is he in him? Hope? It's been those boring old black frames. And I'd like to apologize to the UH to be super nerdy and be a fan who who notices that sort of thing, because I think I screwed it up for everybody.
That is hilarious because I was honestly wondering why he stopped wearing them and I did not know is because you decided to openly mock him in front of people that he works with.
That's great.
I meant it as a as a you know, as a sarcastic compliment, but I truly did enjoy Besides Jesse roffeell.
And I know the look, and mostly I know the look because I saw that look every time Andy Larson asked.
Him a question.
Andy is definitely familiar with the look that although there wasn't scorn for me, everyone's why and he would draw some scorn. There wasn't scorn for me, but there was definitely he was shocked and not thrilled.
Yeah, I mean, I mean Will is pithy and sarcastic and dismissive, but Quinn will look through your soul, and yes he will. There were nights where I'd be like, Andy, you might want to leave early, dude, I don't know that you want to be walking on the street of Quinn's leaving I wonder if you've noticed any because I've shared this anecdote several times and actually talked about it with frank Leyden a couple of weeks ago, who was on the show.
When Quinn first took the job. I didn't know him well. And Hubie Brown, my guy. I was in town to call.
A game, and I knew Hube a little bit, you know, for just kind of being in the business or whatever, enough to say hello and ask him questions. And he's always very gracious. And I asked him about Quinn. I said, you know, I know it's early, it's his first year. Seems really sharp, really bright, really organized. You know, what do you think? And hub said to me, oh, he's great, but he'll probably burn himself out in six or seven years. And it took I think it took eight. I think
it was eight full years on the bench. And look, there are several reasons why he elected to leave and take some time off. But you know, I'll exchange the text with him here or there, but I don't see him and talk to him the way I used to. Have you noticed any growth as he's taken on this new opportunity, or do you feel like this is going to be another Like Quinn's going to burn the candle on both ends and maybe find something else to do in seven.
Or eight years.
Yeah, honestly, man, I think that that Quinn only knows one way, and that way does not a glued to a lot of sleep, Like he's going to work around the clock. He's you know, Quinn's a maniac. Yeah, he's a maniac genius. And that's just the way that he's going to go about things. You know, Look, he took on a challenging job too. You know, if he had taken my advice, he probably would have waited and waited out that summer and kind of been the had a choice of some gigs, but he took really the first
job that came open. Remember that was a mid season and hiring in Atlanta, and I didn't see a whole lot of promise. I didn't see a whole lot of potential. To really the credit of the front office and to Quinn, they have put together a really nice young core, and you know, I think this is where Quinn is kind of like just in his element when he's developing. You know, he's putting something together, he's building something up. They still have challenges in terms of future picks are being you know,
out the door. But I think he's invigorated by being able to work with you know, Dyson Daniels. I mean, he was absolutely out of it. Hey, if we're making this trend, we have to get Dyson Daniels. Jalen Johnson, who you know, people are starting figure out, is really one of the great young players in the league. You know, a couple other young guys on that roster, but you know, is Quinn going to be a guy who last won
place forever and ever? I'm not sure about that, but I do think he's joined kind of the opportunity and the challenges that he has right now with the Hawks.
Systematically, is it kind of the same deal that he ran while he was here. I mean, obviously a lot of it is catered towards the personnel you have, and Trey Young is a ball in hand guy, unlike I mean, Donovan is certainly a ball in hand guy.
But they're different players.
Is this team tonight you're gonna be running a system that Jazz fans aren't familiar with because it's quinn system, or is a little bit different based off the personnel you.
Know, I think that Quinn's system is like the great coaches don't fit players into their system. They fit a system around the talent that they have. Why were the Jazz such a heavy pick and roll team because that played to the strengths of the best players. You know, that played to the strengths of not just Donovan Mitchell, but especially Rudy Gobert. You know, I think it is similar with the with the Hawks, just because Srey Young is one of the best pick and roll playmakers in
the NBA. You know, the Capel is not the springy guy that he used to be, but you know, he's still a capable finisher of congou those sort of things. So I think there's similarities. But like I said, I don't think that Quinn would run the same system if he was coaching thirty different teams. I think that he would certainly adapt and tweak and maybe even bring in completely new chapters of a playbook based on the circumstances.
Yeah, now that's well said. Be interesting to kind of see how this rolls tonight. Now, the Jazz have been a little bit better as of late, and you know, the name and that's kind of really making the rounds because of a couple of games of just elite shot making. His Brice Sensiba and you know, they're sitting a lot of guys like we knew they would, and will tends
to maximize whatever batalent he has at his disposal. They go down to Florida and they take care of a Heat team that's a little bit dysfunctional right now, and the Magic team, unfortunately, after that great start, just can't get healthy and it doesn't look like they'll be healthy for a while.
So no one's hanging banners.
But Bryce is shot making over the past few games is something we haven't seen before.
Is there a chance they may have found something?
Because ultimately their walking line was to get back in to the end of the first round. Decide to make that pick was because Bryce was available, and most of that is because he was an elite shot maker and scorer at Ohio State and it's taken some time to manifest. Could this be a player that maybe we haven't paid enough attention to.
Well, first of all, you say, nobody's hanging banners, and if they take my encouragement, they will absolutely hang a Florida State championship banner tonight. And halftime.
Don't tempt us. Don't tempt us to listen.
You earn that, by the way, that magic team that's completely gutted by injuries went up and won a Madison Square Garden.
Yeah they did last night.
You so, But as far as since mug goes, look, these young guys, at some time or another, they're all going to have significant opportunity. And obviously the Jazz are looking for guys who take advantage of that, looking for guys who pop. And you know, since a Bah clearly has been popping recently. And you know, as you mentioned like his hope to be a you know, to have a nice, long, productive NBA career, he's got to be
a bucket like he's not a super dynamic athlete. He's not, you know, going to be some kind of lockdown defender, you know, can he be a big time bucket getter. And it's flashes. But that's what you want to see from these young guys. You want to see flashes, and then you want to see those flashes kind of forming a consistency. Uh So, you know step one is the flashes. And he's had some big time scoring performances lately.
Yeah, and he's a pure shooter.
When he can get a shot off if the defense isn't paying aten to him, I mean, he really does have a chance to get buckets and score points, which is he he has over the past couple of games. And we'll see who they play tonight. We'll see who the Jazz elected to play moving forward. But one of the things that we continue to monitor here. Anytime somebody over at your spot at ESPN or the Athletic or whatever decides to talk about the trade deadline, the Jazz
are inevitably brought up. And one name Tim that I keep hearing, and maybe it's just I don't know. I feel like there's this thing where maybe media members and other markets see a player here playing well and they're like, oh, we could get him. I just keep hearing that Danny and Justin are taking calls about Walker, and I just
can't really wrap my mind around it. I don't know everybody's tradable, Okay, I'm not saying there isn't an offer out there for Walker Kessler, but based off of what we've seen this year and his age and how much they like him, I don't know that I'd even take phone calls on him right now, unless somebody's gonna blow my socks off.
I mean, you take phone calls, but those phone calls in pretty quickly, unless unless somebody is making you with the type of offer that you can refuse. And look, the Jazz took a ton of phone calls on Walker Kessler over the summer, and obviously he did not get moved. There was a lot of interest in him. There was a lot of teams calling and trying to kind of
buy low. He didn't get moved in and the stock has gone up, like you know, look, it's not a winning situation, but you have to be able to evaluate individual development and individual performance, you know, in those circumstances. And look, he's having a good year. I mean he came back and I remember, I think I told you this when I saw the Jazz in pre season here in Dallas. The first thing Will Hardy said to me was wait until you see Kesler. He had a great summer,
you know, and I was like, okay, that's interesting. Then you know, hashtag muscle watch. But the guy was clearly in the weight room all summer, you know, bulked up and it's good weight. I think he was able to kind of a summer away from it. You know, he went to Summer League, but you know, not Team USA and all that kind of stuff. With the World Cup, I was able for him to kind of refresh mentally, and he's done everything that they were hoping to see
from him this season. I'm not saying there's no way that he's traded. I'm saying it's going to be awfully pricey to even tempt the Jazz's front office.
At the risk of a Tim McMahon eye roll on the other end of the phone.
And I know what that looks like.
I'm just gonna ask you this because we are in Salt Lake City, and we'll move over to other things. But the fact of the matter is marketing's numbers across the border all the way down. Now, that's not to me any indicator that he's not the player that he once was. His minutes are about the same at thirty two. He's been incrementally held out here or there, but nineteen points six boards, all of this splits are down. I mean, is there anything there there at all?
I'll be honest with you, I have not inquired with anybody in UH in the organization recently about that I would be surprised. There's a whole lot of concern. You know, Honestly, he's a veteran guy. We understand what this season is for the Utah Jazz. I'm sure it's probably difficult for him to be dialed in on a day to day basis the way that you know, he probably would be in a more competitive situation. I personally don't think there's
any massive reason for concern. And like I said, I I can I can speculate that the probably isn't within the organization, but I would be I would be misleading you if I had told you I'd been asked about him a lot lately.
Fair Enough, we had at Haberstrow yesterday.
We had bontemps last week, and they both had different answers about how this. Jimmy Butler Soga will and you just you don't mess with Pat. You just don't don't mess with Pat Riley. It's the wrong guy to mess with. And the weird thing is that if you're Miami, there's not a ton of incentive to like move him. It actually might behoove them to hold on to him and let him hit free agency for cap flexibility. So like they don't have to do anything, but this feels untenable.
He's been suspended, and there are a lot of rumors concerning some teams who you cover, like Memphis, and then other teams like maybe Golden State, Phoenix, potentially Milwaukee.
Just give me your best guess. How do you think this thing ends with Jimmy Butler.
I mean, it's intentionally untenable, Like Jimmy has accomplished his short term goal of making the situation as uncomfortable as it could possibly be. I don't think that pat Riley the Heats are going to be bullied in to make him what they would consider to be a bad deal. At this point. Would they make a neutral deal, you know, would they make a deal where they're getting some sort
of draft capital and no long term salary. I think they do that because I think it has reached a point where they're just like eight, let's just let's just get rid of the headache. Which again that's that's Jimmy doing exactly what he set out to do. There's a long time till the shade deadline. I I would lean towards and then probably figuring something out. And look, if they figure something out, maybe it's a three team, maybe
it's a four team. You know, certainly the Jazz I'm sure involved on the periphery of that where maybe there's a way for them to kind of wiggle in there and get some sort of value, uh, you know, for for the future. It's not going to be easy though, for a lot of reasons. One his salary, to his personality. Three his age. You know, for all the talk of he's definitely gonna turn down the player option, I will believe that he turns down fifty two million dollars next
season when it actually happens. It's a it's a complicated thing for many, many different reasons.
Tell me what you think John Moran had.
What questions you think JA has answered this year as Memphis is back to where we're accustomed to seeing them when John Moran is healthy and look, I don't know if it's a real reclamation story, but as of now, nothing' hit the news and they're a good team. And when he's in the lineup, he reminds us of who he is when all the noises kind of blocked out. But you cover this team, you know the situation. Well, what is there anything you think JA has set up
to this point. That is encouraging if you're a Grizzlies fan.
Listen.
I think the biggest question that he's answered is Kim John Morant avoid you know, just shooting himself in the foot metaphorically obviously indeed by doing dumb things. And it has been fortunately very quiet around him for over a year now. And you know that's including a lot of time where he had idle time. I mean, he was traveling with the team last year when he was hurt, and I was very intense want to keep him involved, kind to keep him in that team environment and focus.
But I'm not saying that that Joe is going to be getting his wee bow badges from the Voice Scouts or as a Cup Scots whatever that is anytime soon. But there's not the rumblings that there were about him, you know, a year and a half ago, fifteen months ago. And so that's the biggest thing. If Josh stays out of his own way, he's going to have a chance to have a Hall of Fame type of career, you know. Unfortunately, the other big question in him is about durability. That's
again been a challenge. You know, he's had a couple of pretty significant injuries so far this season, is already not going to be eligible for all NBA. But man, you know that is a deep team that is difficult to prepare for. They do have a unique system among NBA teams these days, and if John and desen Bay and jam Jackson Junior are all healthy going to the playoffs, I think they will have answer to make some noise.
What can you tell us that's the most recent take on just how dominant okay See has been. They've ran fifteen straight off and it's not just who they are now, it's what that front office has built them to be moving forward. As Bobby Mark says, we've talked about released the draft capital rankings, the Jazz were four. OKAC has won and they've also won fifteen straight games and they're thirty and five everything in the case, they're a dominant team.
Out this way.
What's the latest Tim mcman take on this recent run from OKAC.
Well, first of all, cannot wait to watch Kaz versus Thunder tomorrow and then I'll be live when they play again at OKC on the sixteen. I mean, both these teams are on seventy win paces. It's the first time we've had teams on that kind of pace. Two teams at this point of the season, says seventy one seventy two when it was the Bucks and Lakers, Kareem versus Willed.
That's a pretty heavy company. So this is I know in Oklahoma City might not be the markets the NBA would have selected, but they these two teams are awfully good. You're talking about the dumb one offense of the Cavaliers versus the number one defense of the Thunder Jego to Salazander. To me, it's a two horse race for MVP at this point, between him and Joker. He's unbelievabley He's does it, just scores thirty plus officially and does everything else that
you can possibly want out of a superstar. But how dominant has this Thunder team been. Here's a stat for you. I'll even throw in the NBA Cup Final even though it doesn't officially count. They are twenty seven and three when they've had a seven foot are available for the
entire game. Three of their losses one came today to night to check out or which you got to hurt in the first half, and then two of those other losses came during that brief little stretch when Chet was already out and Hart and Steinhattan recover from his broken hand. They haven't had those guys playing together for a single second year. Let me think about that. And by the way,
Caruso hasn't played a whole lot. He's been dealing to Hit for a while, so they haven't had Chet or you know, for whatever, it's been a couple of months now, Caruso's playing a little bit. Those are two all defensive dudes, and they are the number one defense in the NBA by over three and a half points per hundred possessions.
Oh and then they've got an MVP, if not front runner, you know, big time candidate who scores thirty plus with remarkable efficiency on a not just remarkable efficiency, but stay very rare. He has a done game. He had one in the NBA Cup Final. I'll give you that. And there, Matt, you can pretty much pencil in thirty on decent efficiency from him every single night.
And they're so fun, man, They're fun to watch, which is good for a league that's looking for teams that people want to latch onto that isn't their own team. Before I set you loose since you brought up the Cavs. We started the show off with this. I mean, Donovan has shown some growth. He's playing winning basketball in a
way that he has that he didn't hear. He admitted in a piece with The Athletic that he's trying on defense now and all of us were like, thanks, dude, but whatever, what are you willing to say about this thirty one and four start? Boston is still the clear favorite everywhere, but what are you willing to say about how real this is with Cleveland?
Listen, man, thirty one and four, I'm not going to sit there and tell you that's a fluke if they just came through Dallas and look, they were playing the mass without Luke and ky Read. But there were times I was gasping watching that game, just the way that the Balls movie. I mean, Donvan made some passes and their hockey is his type of passes, but he made
some passes that I was like, WHOA. And I had a good talk with Donovan afterward, sat down with him for about ten minutes or so before they left the arena, and like, you look at just his counting stats, they're down. That's not like a coincidence, and it's not a bad thing.
You know, he's gotten over meeting to uh, you know, really kind of establish himself as a superstar honestly, even worrying about Datus or this, and that the guys had a point in his career where he just wants to win, and he recognized that him doing a little bit less one puts him in a position hopefully to be much fresher come playoff time, to be able to finish strong, to be able to you know, to feel good physically for an entire playoff run. But it's letting Darius Starlin
really have have some more rope and thrive. And you know, the thing that Donovan kept coming back to though, as he said, Evan e Fan Mobley. Like again, it might not show them necessarily the numbers, but they feel like Evan Mobley has made a leap this year and that has been just a massive development for a team that was a good team last year. You know, it was a second round playoff team but wasn't a contender. There's no question they're a contender now. K beat the Celtics
in a playoff series. I don't know, but I think it's possible. I don't know if they will, but they better be taken seriously because again we a'll go thirty one and four for a plus twelve net rating and have would be some sort of fluke.
That was an unbelievable hit.
And the only thing I can think about is how badly I wish I was there standing next to you when you asked Quinn about is Sally Jesse Raphael Glasses, because that must have been.
A moment to remember.
Man, But great stuff today, Be well, travel safe, chat soon.
Okay, I do have great regrets now that we will never see the red frames again. I apologize to be an NBA fandom for that.
There we go, There is.
Tim McMahon covers the NBA for ESPN, covers the Jazz for ESPN when the jazz are worth covering respectfully.
At ESPN Underscore, McMahon is where you find them.