Four nations face off Thomas Douay close tomorrow in Boston. Our next guest joins us on a weekly basis to talk Hockey Talk NHL, Neil Smith on a Wednesday afternoon.
Neil, Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you very good?
Thanks Spence, how about you. I've had a little bit of a break here from the NHL, so that's that's been nice to get to watch some great hockey, though with the poor nations.
So Neil, if memory serves initially you were not too thrilled at the prospect of what this tournament could bring us, is that is that fair to say?
Absolutely fair, because I just saw it as a, you know, an NHL tournament that was sort of being positioned as a national you know, somehow had national pride in it. But the players played so hard in this thing. I didn't expect them to play as hard as they played as they were playing. I still know that it's not a truly country representative tournament because you have to play in the NAH to be able to be in the tournament.
And having said that, I've never seen NHL players play even close to this in an All Star game, which is what this took The place of so anything that can bring great hockey in place of the All Star Game, which is bad hockey, I'm all for.
So, Neil, educate us a little bit on the US Canada rivalry in hockey. Now, for a long long time, I'm going to give you the space here because I'm not the expert you are, But for a long long time it was like Canada and Russia because the US wasn't necessarily a hockey country that could rival those two. So it feels from my perspective that the juice is kind of upped over the past I should say, the
last twenty years, twenty five years or so. But obviously these are two teams and two teams representing two countries that have a healthy amount of sports eight for each other. So educate us, Educate us a little bit on this rivalry and why it's so intense.
Well, Spence, it actually took. It actually started forty five years ago when the nineteen eighty Miracle team won the gold medal at Lake Placid, the American team, and that inspired a lot of young Americans to want to play hockey, and then along came in the eighties after that, Wayne Gretzky gets traded to the La Kings from Edmonton, and all of a sudden, la now has a superstar, generational, unbelievable talent like Wayne Gretzky and all the celebrities, and
everybody wants to go and start going to the La form and seeing the La Kings play. And then you know, along comes Disney who puts a team in Anaheim. And then along, you know, there's a team that gets put in San Jose by the Guns. They put that team and then they started off in the Cow Palace in San Francisco and then went up to Santose. So hockey was moving into non traditional places. A little while later Phoenix, as you and I wouldn't be talking right now had
there not been a Phoenix Coyotes. And then you know there were other non traditional markets. Florida suddenly came in, Tampa came in at the time that Ottawa got back in the league, Florida came in when Anaheim came in. So you had these outposts of non traditional hockey. Because in the United States, the hockey players were coming in the seventies primarily from Boston, New England area, and from Minnesota.
Maybe a little bit of Michigan. But that was about it, and there was never a hockey player come out of Texas or Nevada, or California or even Long Island. And it's been this growth of the NHL and hockey in general and the exposure that the NHL's got into so many different places that I think has inspired young athletes to want to become hockey players. And that's what they've done. So what am I saying about Canada, Well, Canada has
basically stayed the same. They've been hockey crazy throughout the country the whole time. It has not waned, it has not gone up, it has stayed the same. How many people live in Canada about thirty five million. How many people live in the States three hundred and thirty million. So if you start to get the United States passionate about hockey, it won't be long before the United States is going to catch up to a country that's a tenth of its size in production of hockey players. And
I really believe that's what's happened. They've caught up. They're producing a volume of really talented hockey players that matches Canada. So the that Canada used to have because it was every kid playing on a rink in the winter is now competed. Is very competitive by the United States, who has even though they don't have the percentage of young athletes picking hockey, just the smaller percentage of American young athletes picking hockey probably equals what they have in Canada.
So this is why the rivalry has gotten and gotten more intense. It was for a long time that Canada would always beat the United States, and then in the nineties in the World Cup in nineteen ninety six, United States won that against Canada, and that was quite a thing for the United States again inspiring young people to play, showing that they can be competitive and beat Canada. And then it's just grown from there. So that's the rivalry. Then you've got the just the natural North American rivalry
of the countries of Canada and the United States. You know, Canada is the little guy looking at the big you know, the elephant down below saying, you know the look, this is the superpower of the world. You know, the number one richest nation in the world. Canada is pretty well off. But you know, Canada is dwarfed by the United States, of course, and there is a rivalry there everybody speaks the same language, everybody. They've got a common border that's not hard to get across if to go and play
sports against each other. And I think it's natural that, you know, Americans want to be Canadians and Canadians really want to beat Americans because they want to have one thing that they're better than the United States. So that's that's a long way of giving you the history of it and where it is today.
You know, we had a pretty unique experience out this way in two thousand and two with the Winter Olympic Games being held in Salt Lake, and I can remember watching the Canada US gold medal game. Canada won that one five to two, and so I think a lot of people out this way got a little bit of a taste of that rivalry. But does it feel now? And maybe I'm being a prisoner of the moment, because I've gotta say, Neil, I was pretty excited to watch
US Canada on Saturday night. I did not think I was going to watch a game that had three fights in the first nine seconds, and I did not think I was going to be watching a game that would lead to the Americans winning on Canadian soil. In Montreal, and so I'm not trying to be a prisoner of the moment, But does it feel like this current iteration has taken another level of intensity or was that just a moment in time on Saturday night.
No, I don't think it was a moment in time on Saturday night. I don't at all. I think that there's I don't like those fights to the beginning of the game because two of them with the Kochuck brothers were stage fights, and and what I mean by that is there was no reason for them. There's no anger, nobody had done anything, and all of a sudden, you know, these four guys all decided they're going to fight. The
other fight between JT. Miller and Perreco, that was some pushing and shoving and some you know, some things were said and some some some back and forth that led to that one. So that one, you know, I'm okay with. I don't think it's a moment in time. I think that the United States is very competitive with Canada, and I don't think that the United States has taken over
Canada yet. And I don't think no matter who wins tomorrow night, that that necessarily means that you know, if Canada wins, in Canada is still the powerhouse of the world. And if United States wins, well, there's got to be a past the torch. I don't believe that. I think we're in a time right now in twenty twenty five, you know, and let's say twenty twenty to twenty thirty, that these teams are really closely balanced. They're close to each other, the countries are close in being able to
put out competitive teams. I do think they'll come a day and I don't forget I'm born Canadian, that the United States will be able to have a stronger production of star players than Canada, simply based upon the fact that the population is so much bigger and so many more kids are going to be interested in playing.
So I want to follow up on something you referenced, and you did explain why you called these fights staged, but this kind of took another level, as Matthew Kochok and Brandon Hagell, who fought I believe that was the first five of the Knights, have kind of James barbs back and forth over the past couple of days, and Hagel said it was quote done what he did as far as the fight goes, was for the flag and not the cameras. And then he continued, he said, quote,
we don't need to initiate anything. We don't have any group chats going on what's going on out there, playing our game and giving it everything and doing it for our country. We just want to play as hard as we can and do it for the flag on the chest. This is clearly a shot at what you said, right, He's clearly taking a shot at the Kachuck brothers and JT. Miller for pre planning these fights. Tell me, is it
like an unwritten rule? Is it a code in hockey where that's just not the way you go about your business of pre planning these fights.
No, I don't want to say that. I mean, this does happen when you know somebody wants to send a message right away that you know what, we're not going to back down from you guys. And I think the Kachucks were the ones that instigated those. I maybe I wasn't on the ice. I didn't hear the language going back and forth. What's really amazing about those two things, if you think about it, is, first of all, it's Matthew Kittchuck and Hegel. Hegel plays for Campa Bay Lightning,
Matthew plays for Florida Panthers. There's a little bit of a rivalry right there. And then you get Brady Kitchuck, who's the captain of the Ottawa Senators ninety miles from where that building he was in in Montreal and the rival of the Montreal Canadians, and he fights his brother's teammate, Sam Bennett, like I'm sure Sam Bennett and Matthew Kitchuck are friends, and Brady called him on. So there was an irony in those two things. But it happens more
in playoffs than in anything. When the playoff intensity comes, sometimes you'll see real good players just say, you know, call on one of the real good players on the
other team. I remember it happening with klotch Eru and Sydney Crosby when Philadelphia gets played in the in the playoffs, and you know, you can go back to two thousand and five when the two captains of the Calgary Flames and the Tampa Bay Lightning were in the final, and it was like Vincent Lecavalier from Tampa and Jerome mcginla from the Calgary Flames. They got they had a go right in the final, and so this will happen from
time to time. But you know, and and it's it's these are young guys that are that got tons of testosterone and that's going ten you know, one thousand miles an hour inside of them, and it just shows though how badly they want to win.
You got to help me understand what the hell j T. Miller was thinking.
I mean, the cold and Paraco kid who he went at was like twice his size. I mean, a lot of the attention has been on the Kuchuk brothers and what they did. But it was a little ty domish, wasn't it. It looked like that was a big time mismatch Neil well I did.
But that's J. T. Miller. He's a bit of a pit bull, you know, he's he's I think he was trying to prove something right there that he's you know, he's in there for the fight and he'll take on a big guy. Colton Pariko isn't really a fighter, you know. He's a big man and a good player. Obviously he wouldn't be on Team Canada if he wasn't. But he's not really what you would call a fighter, but he's not.
He's not a wars either, So I mean, yes, j T. Miller was taken on a big dog and it was a mismatch, but I think he had some He was trying to prove something for his team as well.
So look, it's easy to draw a straight line between the three fights and that three to one win.
Is that a real thing?
Do you think the US was motivated with the actions of the Kachuck brothers and JT? And did that give them enough juice to go on and win? Can we be that reductive that it actually did make a tangible difference?
I don't know that those things really at the end of the day, you can point to them and say that they had a you know, a part of why the Americans won. Let's go through the game and remember that Connor McDavid scored an unbelievable goal I did to make it one nothing, and so Canada was up one nothing. The United States tied it, and then I believe it was the second goal that was a bad goal on Jordan Bennington, and he threw his head back and looked up at the ceiling when he saw that that had
squeaked through, So that was a bad goal. Connor Hellibuck. You don't get bad goals on him. He the goal that was scored on him was scored on him by the best player in the league flying at him at about thirty miles an hour. So you know what I said it, and I'll say it again about the game tomorrow night. The US has some injuries. That's going to play part of it. But the number one thing is Canada has to figure out a way to beat Connor Hellibuck,
who's the best goalie in the world right now. And isn't it ironic too though, that Connor Hellibuck, who is an American, is the goaltender of the Winnipeg Jets. So there he is all season long, playing in Canada and now doing everything he can tomorrow night to break the hearts of all the Canadians. I just find it ironic.
So Charlie mclvoy, he's out for Team USA and he put a hit on was it McDaid?
Who did he hit?
I think he hit Connor McDavid.
Yeah, yes, yes, that's right.
And I wanted to ask you because Connor McDavid potentially the best hockey player in the world. Maybe not potentially maybe he is, and I feel like once upon a time, maybe I'm misremembering, there are like unwritten rules about putting massive hits on some of these skilled players that are big time stars, Like no one ever hit Gretzky right from what I can recall, and he was protected. Was that bad form of McAvoy to put that hit on Nick David?
No, not at all, And fact I think that that's another one of the things that inspired his team. I think that was a great hit. And I what I'm really happy about from my just my little perch, is that the Canadians didn't go after McAvoy and try to fight him because he laid out a good hit. So many times in the NHL you'll see a really good hit, and I'll bet you Sergacheff comes up with good ones from that time to time, and then all of a sudden he's got to fight some guy from the other
team and it was a clean hit. It just happened to be the guy had his head down or whatever I was. I thought that was exciting to see Charlie McAvoy hit Connor McDavid in that way. I don't think I've ever seen him hit like that, But he's a big guy. He can take it. Wayne in his day he wasn't a small man, but he was small compared to the size of the league. And so everybody said to the other team, if you come, you're handim, you're
going to pay. So, you know, it was an unwritten thing, like you better be ready if you're going to try to hit ninety nine.
How much of this, uh, I don't know.
We don't do a lot of politics on the show for obvious reasons, but there is this kind of undercurrent of you know, the comments made by Donald Trump fifty first state all that stuff, and then the Canadians boo our national anthem, and then a lot of people drawn a line between the booing of the national anthem and the decision making of the US team to fight from the drop of the of the or even before like things got going.
How much of that do you buy into? Do you believe it's it's real?
As far as the passion that appears to be permeating between these two.
Teams, well, I'm not very proud of my fellow Canadians booing the American national anthem for any reason at any time. United States and Canada are best of friends. They'll be best of friends before this current administration, and they'll be best of friends after this current administration. And I don't think that that that's the way you do things. But you're in a hockey arena. Fans can say whatever they want, they can do whatever they want. And you know, but
but I I I don't. I don't agree with it doesn't motivate the American players. I'll bet it does, because you know, it's fun to be in a in a in a building where it's seething and you win the game, or you can, you might be able to beat their their team. It's it's fun. So I think it inspired people.
I don't. I don't. Again, I'm repeating myself, but I don't like that kind of thing, because the Americans have always been there for the Canadians, and the Canadians have always been there for the Americans when it comes right down to it, when it comes to importance up other than sports, we've always been the best of friends. And so I didn't like that.
So Montreal a century, if not more, of hockey history. And I was not in the building, of course, but holy smokes, did that environment look electric? What sort of environment do you think Boston a great domestic hockey city, but certainly not with the history of Montreal, is going to bring coming up Tomorrow night? I mean, Neil, there are reports that current NHL players have reached out to try to get tickets and people are like sorry, like
we're sold out, there are no coms available. What sort of atmosphere do you think we're in for Tomorrow night in Boston.
I think you're in for an electric atmosphere. I don't think it, and I may be wrong, So this is just I don't think it's not going to be I don't think it will be as passionate as Montreal because I don't think that you have the passion for a US hockey team like you have for a Canadian for the team Canada. In Montreal, I think you have a
very passionate Boston crowd for the Boston Bruins. But I think you're going to have a lot of Canadian fans sneak into that building, meaning that they bought tickets through somebody, I mean, and they got in there and they're going to be cheering for the Canadian team. But it will be electric. It will definitely be a pro US side for sure, probably not as pro Us as the Bell Center was pro Canadian. But I mean, I'm really looking
forward to the game tomorrow night. And I'm a guy, like you said, and I admit it, didn't think this would be the greatest of all little tournaments here, but it's turned out to be one of the best ones I've ever seen.
All Right, Neil, before I set you loose, what are we in for tomorrow? How do you think it goes down?
Well, it's going to be close, And that's sort of a bailing out by saying that I think Canada is going to be able to do it, just because of the injuries the United States has and because of the power play that the Canadians have. But again, it's going to be close, and it sure could go the other way for sure. It's just I mean, it's just going to be a great hockey game, and I'm not I have no dog in the fight. I've been living in the United States far longer than I lived in Canada,
so I don't have a dog in this fight. Meaning I'm not cheering for either side. I'm just looking at it as an observer, as somebody who's trying to get it right. So that I can come on a show like this and be right. But that's all I'm looking for.
Well, it's always great to get your perspective as somebody who' steeped in the hockey history of both countries.
I can't wait for it.
I think it's going to be exciting and I'm excited to break it down with you next week. Enjoy the game the old chat soon.
Okay, yeah, thanks for having me, all right.
The great Neil Smith, former general manager of the Rangers and the Islanders Canadian and now lives here in the United States. We have the Four Nations face off for you guys tomorrow night on the station by the way. It follows the Craig Smith Coaches Show, which follows our show, which ends at six o'clock