Sean O'Connell ESPN seven hundred. As someone correctly stated, it seems like a team in a rebuild and some things were done this past season to potentially manipulate where the team would end up in the draft. Lot ofy odds, and unfortunately some of that is dependent on luck, and
the team got a little bit unlucky. So do you have a philosophy, what is your philosophy on, for lack of a better term, to be in delicate tanking or manipulating minutes and player performance in order to achieve better lot of yodds?
Won't see that this year.
Yesterday, during Austin Ange's media availability, our very own Sean O'Connell the question that has made the rounds.
A lot of people have reacted to it.
Our next guest was also present, and certainly we'll have some thoughts on that and all things related to the Utah Jazz.
Two time Utah Sports rid of the Year. Sarah Todd des Red News, Sarah, Happy Tuesday. How are you?
I'm doing great? I actually was present, so I should I should say that I'm actually in San.
Diego, So, sir, literally nobody knew that you could have just faked it, I.
Know, honor system. I started to feel bad before I even talked.
That says a lot about you.
Let's I'm jealous you're in San Diego, but let's get your reaction, h And also whether or not you believe what Austin had to say that this idea of making sure certain players are encouraged to not show up for work in order to have the best lottery odds is something we will not see from the Jazz next year.
Yeah, I mean I was just as shocked as everyone else. I mean not just from that comment, but through the whole press conference. I mean the way that it started right off the that like Ryan Smith had some comments, Austin said some comments, and then they opened up for questions. But literally, like the first thing that Ryan said to recorders was, I know everyone's going to probably have some questions about like organizations, structure and hierarchy, and I'm gonna
clear that up right now. Like Austin is in charge, he has final say, he'll be giving the recommendations to me. And so what I thought was going to end up being another confusing press conference like it was when Danny Ainge was hired, was not like that at all it was very clear that they are making Austin Ange the most powerful decision maker in the front office, and so
that was surprising. The second thing was that was surprising was that Danny Ainge, by all accounts, did not know that this was happening, That they weren't like interviewing president of basketball Operations candidates, and that it all happened what seemed very impulsively. So that was a second surprising thing. And then the final surprising thing was a very clear and concise you just play the audio. You won't see
that next year as it pertains to tanking. And I reached out to different people within the organization and kind of pretty frankly like asked people like is this real or we be just being told what needs to be told. And I was told pretty plainly, like, no, this is real.
Now There's two ways that could go right, Like the Jazz could trade away enough players to wear tanking by manipulating injury reports and minutes and games played is not necessary in order for them to be bad enough, or they will just play the roster they have and live with the results. But I have but I've been told by a number of people that they do not plan to tank.
All right, Well I don't believe Okay, like I don't believe them. I don't believe what Austin said to be a truthful statement. I thought it was a great SoundBite. And respectfully, Sarah, if anybody out there is buying that Danny didn't know Ryan was talking to his son about this job, I've got a great piece of property we can talk about like, there's no way that happened behind closed doors either. But let's operate because your sources are good as good as any beat writer we have in
the market. You're connected. So if we operate off the assumption and take Austin at as word that next year they are going to put their best foot forward and not be unserious about competition, you tell me what that looks like in your opinion, Because as we've talked about, and as you know, they have a top eight protected pick next year that if they don't finish in the top eight, that pick goes to the team that's about
to win the world championship. But if they hold onto that pick next year, the first round convey turns into second rounders the year after. So it really makes zero sense to go all in on trying to win. If there's a chance that you win thirty two games and draft ninth and send that to Okase. In my opinion, the smart approach is doing everything you can to hold on to that asset, especially based off of where this team is in the process of trying to get back
to relevance. So if he's telling the truth and they go all in and they try to win next year, what does.
That look like.
Well, I think that's the difference is I don't believe that they're going to go all in and try to win. I think that that there is a difference between not tanking and trying to win, like there is a middle ground there, which is why I believe that if they're talking about, like if they're being serious about not manipulating the injury report in minutes, I think that you have to offload players from the roster in order to make it so that you can put your best foot forward
and still keep that top eight pick. And so that's what I think it looks like. I think that it looks like you can't just hang on to these contracts. I think that the fact that you have quite a few expiring deals now means it's probably going to be easier to get rid of guys like John Collins Jordan Clarkson. I think that it makes it interesting when you think about what kind of suitors may come calling for Walker
Kessler or Lowry Markinen. I think that those are kind of more likely than they ever have been to be moved. I don't mean that super likely, but more likely than they were previously. And so if you are going to make it to where the roster is bad enough that you don't have to manipulate it in order to keep that top eight pick, that feels like what is probably
going to happen. And I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure at this point it doesn't even turn into seconds like after this year, if the Jazz don't convey the pick to Okay, see, the obligation extinguishes. And so that's even more of a reason, like don't give this finals team a lottery pick, because that would just make the Western Conference even more difficult, Like don't reward them when you could just keep the pick. And so, I mean, it just feels insane if they were to not go
after that pick. And so if they're going to stand by the word that they're not going to manipulate things in order to get better lottery odds. As it pertains to like performances in minutes, then I would expect a lot of trading to start happening.
Yeah, well said, I do think there's a world because in my opinion, it's it's Lowry and it's Walker are the two players where you've got a little something there. Okay, I have questions about literally every other player on the roster.
So if you wanted to tank and also meet the minimum salary floor requirements because you do have to pay players, then moving on from Marketing and Kessler and holding on to Collins, Clarkson and Sexton is something that you could probably look at because do respect.
To those three that are all good guys.
That's the kind of situation like John Collins might be a perfect vet for a team that's not trying to win, even though you know they're claiming they're not going to manipulate minutes because he's making twenty six point five and while he's been good in spurts, he's i'd have on the roster because John Collins is not going to win a bunch of games. Marketing and Kessler are good enough that if you play them. I don't know, if they play sixty five to seventy games, they're good enough that.
You are going to win games.
We've seen Lowry be able to do that, and Walker is an emerging player in this league. So what do you think of the potential of maybe moving on from market and Kessler, holding on to the other veterans and then playing the young players a grip of minutes that could include four new rookies on the roster.
Yeah, I mean, and it kind of depends on what kind of timeline that you're going to be looking at right, Like, these are all discussions that are going to be happening in the very coming days and weeks with Austin Ainge
and the rest of the front office. Like the idea of if you're moving on from Kessler, who is going into his fourth year, and market In who is now kind of really entering the prime of his career in age, and you're thinking, Okay, we're just going to have like the contracts that talking about John Collins concepts and on the roster in order to take up money space, but banking on young players that we can get this year with the fifth pick and maybe next year with a
top eight pick, then you're talking about an even longer timeline. Obviously you'd be getting more picks if you were to unload Kessler and market In, and so what are you going to do with those What do the trade and free agent markets look like down the road two, three, four, five years from now? And so if you were to move those guys, it feels like an even more elongated timeline. If that's what they want to do, and if that's what they feel comfortable with it, and we'll be more
successful with the team. Like I'm not going to say that it's not, but just you know, it would be another reason to temper the expectations of fans who think, like, oh, he came in, he said that there's not going to be any tanking. This is it, We're going to go win. It's like, no, this actually could be a situation where things could take longer than expected.
On the other side.
Okay, on the other side, and we'll just kind of talk about possibilities, Sarah, because there's no way of knowing how this will go. But you know, even Ryan yesterday, when Austin alluded to the success that he and his dad had in Boston, Ryan said I'd take some of that success right now. And Ryan oftentimes in the past has you know I heard Ryan talk about a potential Christaps Porzingis deal that he thought they had done.
Bobby Mark's on My show said he was.
Told that the Jazz had a really nice offer for Drew Holliday. Andrew wanted to go play in Boston because he thought they could win, and they did.
He's an NBA champion now. So we know that Ryan.
Has expressed in the past the desire to bring in really good players. I still don't know who the guy down there was that uttered the phrase, we are going to sign Paul George and trade for mckel bridges, but good luck. I mean, that would have been awesome. Obviously that was not steeped in reality. But those are the desires that certain people down there have. And we are entering sarah offseason where Kevin Durant and maybe Jannis and
maybe Kat and I could keep going. I mean, I don't know what Phoenix does, but they've got a they've got a problem where they've got to try to find some answers.
Boston has a really expensive roster.
They'll probably jet in some players the Jazz do not have cap space. John Collins is probably gonna pick up his player option. I'll go out of a limb there. If he doesn't, then we have a different conversation. Next year is the off season where the Jazz have very clean books. So next year is the year that I think it's more realistic to talk about adding more viable pieces and talent to give them a better chance of competing.
But is there are there avenues for the Jazz to add talent this offseason to make next year much more competitive? And if you're able to add a couple of really good veteran players, add them to these young pieces and maybe put a couple of players next to Larry and Walker her Is there is that a real scenario for the Jazz this offseason to add some really good veteran players and actually take a couple of tangible steps forward next year.
It doesn't. It doesn't feel real. I agree, because even if we're talking about, like, you know, some of the guys that are on the table right now, like Yannis right like why in any world or any scenario would Milwaukee talk to Utah about the fifth pick and some of the young players that the Jazz have when clearly they could have the second pick from San Antonio and
better young players. I just think that there are better deals and better situations that the Bucks would want to deal with, Like they're they're not looking to get rid of Yanis and be completely in the lurch with someone like Isaiah Collier who's not proven and probably going to end up being like a backup point guard at best at this point with what we know about him. Why would they do that if they could just get Dylan Harper and you know, Devin Befel or something like that.
So it just doesn't feel like the Jazz have the players and picks that a lot of other teams could offer the Bucks right now. But I just can't get past the fact that the Jazz are just not in a position to be okay with giving up that top eight pick next year. It just feels irresponsible to do that, and so I don't see that happening. I don't see them wanting or willing to just give it up outright just to get a few more wins. But I think the biggest question is who is ultimately making that decision
at the end. Right, Like we know that the front office hierarchy, what we've been told is that often change is in charge, but like every other professor sports team, he will make a decision and take that decision to ownership.
And that is where the true final say happened. That is, with every professional sports organization, ownership signs off on decisions, and in this case it's Ryan Smith and he is He literally tweeted out that he was screaming outside the day after the lottery, Like he is emotional and he reacts to things as a fan. He is a fan of this team that he owns, and so if Ryan Smith wants to win, I think that that is what is going to push decisions.
When it comes to the front office hierarchy. I guess we can only go off of what we've been told. Does it feel like Justin Zanik and Danny Ainge report to Austin Ange? Is that is that the gut the gut feel, is that kind of how this thing is going to play out?
That's what i' I mean, that's what we're led to believe right now. Right And like if they if the president of basketball operations job has been open for three years and they haven't made any indication that they were going to promote justin Zanik, and he has stayed and for by all accounts, happily been in the position of
general manager. And if you're there for three years while that job is open, I don't think that Zanik ever expected to have that job, you know, but it is it is a strange dynamic to have the new person come in and have everybody be reporting to them, including his father.
Were you surprised that Danny was not quoted in any press releases nor was made available during the media stuff.
I'm not surprised by that at all. I mean, number one, like, it's not shocking that they didn't make him available because probably posing some weird questions to him would be uncomfortable,
So like why would they make him available for that? Right, But then also a little unfaired often, right, like if he just got hired as president of back of Operation, that's like the biggest job in the NBA that he's ever had, Like it would feel a little infantilizing to be like, Okay, now let's talk to your daddy.
Okay, the way, if you put it like that, I guess I'm on board.
What do you Okay, let's see how to pose this question.
If you got Zanik in an honest moment about this entire thing.
And let me start with this.
We all want to keep our jobs, and there are not a lot of NBA general manager jobs out there now. Zanik at one point was thought to be the new GM in Milwaukee before that went to Horst, and then he was elevated after Dennis Lindsay decided he was not interested in working for this ownership group anymore. Soultimately, I'm sure the bottom line for jay Z is I'm an NBA general manager and this is awesome and I love
my job. But I wonder ultimately how he feels about this entire thing where it's clear that you know, he's part of the group but not running the show, maybe in a way that he thought maybe at some point he would be, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, he's known the score because he hasn't been given that promotion for three years, right, Like if he thought that he was getting it then one year or two years ago, then it would have become clear, right and so, And I also think a lot about Justin's personal life when I think about his position. He's been in Utah for a long time, recently had a kidney transplant, learned that all of his children have the same genetic variant that he has that leads to
the kidney disease that he has. So like all of his doctors are in Utah, you know, his children in high school. Like, there's not a lot of personal reason for him to want to leave. And if he's in a position where staying general manager and continuing to have a very lucrative and successful job keeps him in a place where him his family are not only happy, but healthy, I think that that plays a lot more into Justin's decisions and perception on his life then maybe it did
even two or three years ago. And then in addition to that, there are a lot of owners in the NBA who are less willing to spend money and less
willing to keep things to keep continuent. I mean, look at what is happening in New York right now, Like you know, James Dolan is as sickle as they come, and is as horrible as they come, and they're firing TIBs after he just the next to the furthest points they've been in over twenty years, and so like things could be worse, And I think that you know, if you're if you're a front office person in the NBA and you're serving the landscape, there are a lot worse
places to be than where justin' zanik is right now.
Yeah, and you're good to bring up the personal side.
That's something that we fail to do in this space often. So I appreciate that perspective.
I like Justin.
I'm a Xana guy, and so you know, I just kind of wonder how this is all landing with him. But yes, we all want to keep our jobs, and I'm sure Justin is in that that space as well. So you brought up where I wanted to go next, which is and I'll start here just to reduct, you know, to be reductive and reduce it to really what the bottom line is of pro basketball, and that is, if you don't have players, it doesn't matter who your coach is.
If you don't have players, it doesn't matter who your front office is, it doesn't matter who your owner is if you don't have players.
And the Jazz don't have players, they don't the Knicks do.
But what happened today is another example of why New York has been treading water for twenty five years. They have a petulant owner who's impatient and makes ration, you know, irrational decisions without thinking them through.
And so where I will give the Jazz credit.
And only time will tell if this is the right approach, because again, if you don't have players, it doesn't matter who your coach is or who your front office is.
But what Ryan is elected to do will hardy received.
He's going to receive a nine year runway and he's won thirty percent of his basketball games. Tom Thibeau was just fired after going to the Eastern Conference Finals and winning fifty games in back to back years for the first time in twenty five thirty years. So what Ryan has elected to do is like the anti Dolean approach, and that is lock in a front office, lock in a coach, and let's go again. Bottom line, you have
to have players and the Jazz don't. But what do you make of that dichotomy where I perceive to be, you know, the wrong approach from James Dolan for years to bring in aged, you know, aging overpriced players and aren't ready to win, to fire coaches left and right, and it clearly has not worked, Can says in New York.
And Ryan is taking the opposite approach. What are your thoughts.
I'm long been a believer that like consistency and continuity when it comes to coaching is really important. Like it is really hard to look at some of the teams in the NBA and think, like, wow, that's not part of it, right, Like you look at the turnover and coaching in Phoenix, the turnover and coaching in Milwaukee, the turnover and coaching in Philadelphia, and like now New York
is going to do it. It's like, what do they expect that someone else is going to think that just the biggest named coach, you know, Budenholes or Doc Rivers, Nick Nurse, you just like rotate those guys in and it's going to fix all the problems. Like if we're looking at New York, I would say, like one of their biggest problems is that, like you know, the Indiana Pacers could have played thirteen guys and the Knicks we're struggling to play seven, right, Like your bench is Landry's chant.
I like, I think that there are problems beyond TIBs and and you know, Jalen Brunson is the best player on that team, and he seems like he had all of the conference and TIBs, and so I just like, don't understand why you would, you know, cut the legs off at coaching and say that that was the problem. That wasn't the problem. The players weren't good enough, all right, Sarah?
Before I set you loose. So let's you get back to beautiful San Diego. Have you landed on and look at? Of course it depends on who's drafted before five. But if the Jazz stay at five, who at this point do you believe is best case scenario for them to walk away with?
Yeah, I mean I have gone through probably five guys, and I am I reserve the right to change this in two minutes as well as in ten days, because I feel like that's how often I'm changing my mind on this. Right now, if he was available, my top choice there would be VG Edgecombe. I do really like Trey Johnson. I think at this point, like I feel like I'm out on Ace Bailey. I just think that, like with the fifth pick, you need to have someone that is that is going to feel like they could
be a star. But also if they just turn into like a really, really reliable role player, that then you're really happy with that. But they have to have like starter potential and a little glimmer of hope for them being a star. And if you're looking at someone who has like the best two way ability there, I think it's vja. But I think that's what a lot of other people are thinking too, which makes me thinks he won't be there at five.
Well, we are a few weeks away. We'll see what the Jazz end up doing.
Sarah, thank you so much for the time, and Joyce san Diego Chatson, all right, Chatson, So Todd covers you Todd Jazz for the Desert ret News. She's on social media at NBA Sarah is where you find her.
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