He's the pride of Norwich, Connecticut and an adopted son of Salt Lake City. After forty years with the Utah Jazz there's no one better to talk some hoops. Richard Smitty Smith is back on the Drive on ESPN seven hundred.
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dot com. Richard Smith is live in studio. I have tasked him with coming up with a jazz draft trivia question that will drop on you at the end of this segment.
So stay tuned Tuesday, Sir, how are you.
We're doing great, Spence, what's going on here?
Great to see you.
A lot of stuff going on, a lot of.
Stuff going on, and I need to give you. I need to give you credit.
As the kids would say, I'm gonna give your flowers wow, because you are good. To remind us that when it comes to playoff basketball, anything can happen, like a Steph Curry hamstring or a Jason Tatum achilles. Unfortunately, no part of me thought the Knicks had a chance against the Boston Celtics. Yet, for the first time since the year two thousand, the New York Knicks are back in the conference finals. In two thousand they played the Indiana Pacers, and in twenty twenty.
Five they will play the Indiana Pacers.
You know, so what's wild too, Spencer?
Last night I was on a flight coming back to Salt Lake and I just happened to flip on the screen. It was a thirty to thirty on the Knicks two championship teams in seventy to seventy three, and just the genesis of that and all the guys talking about it, and Walt Frazier and Bill Bradley and Phil Jackson and
all those eyes. And it was a reminder of how electric, uh the league can be, especially you know, with New York being the center of it, uh, when the Knicks are good and when they're competitive, and and how that kind of ramps everybody up. So it's, uh, it's a fun time of the year in the playoffs, especially when you get to the NBA version of the Final Four.
But also if if you happen to be a Knicks fan wherever you are, you know, it's kind of a you know, maybe a semi unexpected, you know, turn of events to get to spar But that's why, that's why you're.
Play in the playoffs. It's what happens. You know.
You can get that right spence or you can get the flip side, which is what the unfortunately the Jazz had you know, three four, five years ago, and they were one of the better teams and one of the expected teams to make an extended run and then stub their toe a few times in the playoffs against the Clippers, and and and and just you know a reminder of how tenuous it is is at this time of year, and how fine that line is on the positive side
or the negative side, just depending what can happen, right, everybody had the Celtics and then Jason Tatum goes down unfortunately, and but the Knicks have been playing well and the Knicks have won is it four or five road games already? Five road games in the first two two series. That's unbelievable. You know, the Houston Rockets, I believe have the record if I'm not mistaken, in ninety four where they won
the championship. They won I believe it was nine road games to get to the NBA Championship and they had two series where they won three road games in particular series on their way to doing that. And that's to me, that's always been one of the great accomplishments and never gets talked about enough, is how Houston made that run that year, and especially all those road games they want.
Oh, it gets talked about, Smitty get Toxic, talked about plenty because they beat the Knicks.
Who did the Jazz lose to in ninety four?
No, it was it was it was Rocket because I can remember so for our younger listeners, look it up. Michael Jordan had retired and as a child of the Jazz and the Knicks. I thought to myself, ninety four, yep is the year that the Jazz and the Knicks are going to play in the finals. I had forgot that Houston actually beat both teams.
Yeah, well, the Houston the Jazz were favored. They came in as the three seed. The Houston was a sixth seed. The Jazz and that that was the year the Jazz that made the trade for Jeff one a second and UH and and the Jets were feeling pretty good and we're in a good spot, and UH and Houston went That was when the first.
Round series were best of five, right.
And the Jazz had the first two at home and went to to and then the fifth game was here in Salt Lake, and and UH and the Jazz were up seven with five minutes to go at home, and UH and Clyde Drexler went on a little runs, right, and UH and the Jazz couldn't stop him at that moment in time. And Houston got over the hump in that series and then parlayed that into a great run
all the way to the finals. But that was that also precipitated, you know, a lot of a thinking and head scratching, you know by the Jazz the next couple of years really was what precipitated the Jazz bringing in a Chris Morris because when we looked at that and tried to analyze everything, and you never try and get you know, too reactionary to those things again plus or minus, because it's a series and a couple of things can happen in a couple of games, and you don't want
to wipe away what you did over a six month period over eighty two games because you had a bad weekend, right or something like that. But when we looked at that, the Jazz looked at, hey, if we are going to get over this this hump, which the Jazz felt at that time, we have a good team.
We have a highly competitive team.
You know, we can really do some damage, you know, in these coming years with the core we have now with Stockton Malone and Horniseeck. But we have to have someone if we get to this spot again, that can play a match up against a Clyde Drexler type guy,
because we're going to be seeing him again. And so that precipitated the move that eventually became Chris Morris being added to the team, and then we play Houston in ninety seven in that Western Conference finals, and now they've got a Keeam, but they've also added Barkley to go along with Drexler, and the Jazz were able to counter with their big three, but also Chris Morris to match up some against Drexler just in terms of his length and athleticism, and and the Jazz you know, pushed through
at that time and got to their first finals in ninety seven.
B Russ on that team.
B Russ was, Yeah, he was the starting three.
So he oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he was, and and and he became a he worked his way, you know.
Brian Russell was a second round pick out of Long Beach State and came in as as really a post player out of college and made himself into a viable NBA wing defender and what is commonly referred to now as a three and D guy, and became a reliable enough three point shooter that that helped offset what Jeff Hornisack was able to do on the other wing with his shooting, and then of course space that floor for Carl and John to run pick and rolls and for Carl to have some space to operate.
Down low Shandon too, right.
And Anderson was a rookie in ninety seven, so his first two years in the league were the two years at the Jazz run to the finals.
Yeah, that's right.
So I was thinking about this when I saw you on the rundown today, because you had a front row seat to the early Jalen Brunson experience with the Dallas Mavericks. The final, I guess I'll say nail on the coffin without trying to be too dramatic of Gobert Mitchell Quinn. You know that group was the series you guys played against Dallas. Luca gets hurt Rick, Carlisle gives the ball to Jalen. You're our ball and hand guy, now, yep. And it worked really well, and I think it caught
a lot of people off guard. And of course the Knicks did their calculation. They said, we're going to go all all in on that kid. His dad Rick as an assistant. He was a Nick back in the day. Are you surprised to see Jalen elevate to this level or did you see it coming based off of what you guys experienced.
No, I'm personally I'm surprised. I always liked Jalen Brunson coming out of college at Villanova, you know, where they won two championships. But he was he was always a steadying influence. He always played with a calm demeanor. He got to Dallas as a second round pick. Give give Dennis, Dennis Lindsay some props. Dennis, who's the general manager of the Jazz at the time, liked Rick Brunson in the draft.
It didn't it didn't go our way. He ended up going early in the second round to Dallas, you know. And again the way sometimes these things happened, Spence and and people people try and write it differently than it really was. But but Rick brunt Rick, Jalen Brunson was a nice player for the Dallas Mavericks and a good
rotation guy. Donc just goes down. You look down the bench and and I can give you countless times that's happened over my years in the NBA where a coach, you know, looked down the bench and said, well, uh, pointed to and guys said, you're up, and you're you're expecting not anything great, be expecting someone to maybe plug their finger in the dike and just hold you in place.
Somehow while some of your main guys go to work or somebody does something in that regard, and then somebody comes out of the woodwork like Jalen Brunson against the Jazz in that playoff series, and uh and and again, Spence, you look at it and people will have their own version of of what you should or could have would have done and whatnot. But Jalen Brunson was a surprise in that series, played well, helped them immensely to win
that series. Okay, the Jazz stubbed their toe in that regard, but now here we are several years later and Jalen Brunson is doing the exact same thing when everybody knows he's going to do the exact same thing, and they haven't been able to stop it. So it shows his persistence, his development, his talent and skill level that he has the confidence to play that way. And he's become obviously a main guy in the NBA and has showed everybody that he can lift that kind of heavy load when
it's called upon him. But he may never have gotten the chance to show that, and he may still be, you know, a good rotation guy for Dallas on his second mid level contract. Whatever, if if Doncich hadn't gotten hurt, that's that's that proverbial, you know, be ready when your number is called, you know mantra and that you always tell guys. And then when you're in there, here you go. You always said you wanted more playing time. Here's your
more playing time. Let's see what you got. And to to Jalen Brunson's credit, he's been able to parlay that into you know what is he is now in the middle of a of a terrific NBA career and uh and the main guy for the Knicks at the at the moment.
Yeah, And I've been so impressed with his both mental and physical toughness. I know it sounds cliche, but you look at him and he's a sturdy kid.
But even Drew Holliday, who's one of.
The best primeter defensive players that we've had in a generation, Drew had some good moments on it, but Jalen would take him down on the block. Derek White didn't have a prayer against him because Jalen just backed him down and six' one maybe six to one quite honestly, And again, Bill, but I don't know that I really knew that he had this physical presence and mental toughness, and he seems like a perfect nick.
Yeah, well he's he's got the demeanor spence that when things don't go right, you never see him. All these guys always always go crazy. They're yelling at the ref or they're you know, throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of the game and whatever way they want to. Jalen Brunson always just has a calm demeanor. Whether the ball went in, whether the ball didn't go in, or he got the call he didn't get the call. You know,
he's just playing. He's playing. You know, John Stockin was one of the greatest at doing it, you know, just looking ahead to the next play and not worrying about what happened ten seconds ago, good or bad. And Jalen Brunson's got that skill. And again to the point Dewey as an NBA fans, ever see that if the scenario with Doncic years earlier, you know, doesn't doesn't occur. I
mean a lot of guys just need the chance. And and that's why we always when we talk about the draft, which which obviously will be doing a lot of in the next month or so and trying to project guys
at the NBA. You just never know how someone is gonna play, no matter what their talent or skill level or or innate athletic abilities are, until they get in the fire and you put them in there and the pressure's on, and now you see, you know how they think, what their twitch is, what their confidence level is, all those kinds of things you never quite know. It's the old it's the old Mike Tyson accident.
Right.
Everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the face and then the plan goes out the window, and now we see what you really got. And and Jalen Brunson's doing that in spades.
You know.
Frank is Sola, friend of the show.
In fact, Porter reach out to Is Sola, tell Is Sola that with the NIS in the conference finals, he has to come on the show.
He I like this, I like this supporter.
By the way, your guy here calling out like a national figure by his last name, call I Sola.
Oh I made without me? Isola is not a thing. I Sola's not a thing without me. But but Frank always talks about and then he'll tweet, he'll write about there really isn't any hard data to support the narrative that Tom Thibodeau plays his players too much. It does not exist. And when you look at it, this year Steve Kerr was playing ten guys. Steph does his hamstring, Boston's ten d Tatum does his achilles.
The data does not exist.
It's a narrative that exists that Tom plays his guys too much. However, I know you were traveling. But Friday Night, Game six, the score is one hundred and ten to seventy four. Yep, with six minutes left and Jalen Brunson is fighting over screen set by Xavier Tilman.
Yep.
Pull the guys, Pull the starters. I know it's top stick. And again, I want to be clear, there really is no data. A soul has been on this for years. There's no data to indicate Tom plays his players too much, so they all get hurt. Guys just get hurt, no matter what. But what do you make of that with five and a half minutes left in the game, all the starters are in and they're up forty Why do you think he rolls that way?
Well, if you know TIBs, which I know you do, is somewhat he is a high strung guy and he is all in and he is he is he He's one of those guys who just believes and he just feels with his gut that no lead is safe and
it doesn't matter. And you can talk to him, and I know Rick Brunson, one of the assistant coaches, is probably the best at it to be able to go up to him and say, hey, coach, coach, it's you know, let's get him out or something, and he'll he'll like look at him and give him a scowl like what are you talking? You know, you know, okay, yeah, and wave them off or whatever. And it's just against Tim's nature to do that. That's just the way he coaches.
He's gonna go down with with with those guys. Okay, it's smart, it's not smart whatever, but you're right, Spence. All during the season, whenever the Knicks had a little ripple or something didn't go right during the season, or they had a you know, lost three or four, whatever it was, there would always be people harping on it. While he's playing this guys too much and it's too
many minutes and you gotta cut it back. As when you get to the playoffs, they got to have some energy left and blah blah blah and whatever, and and but now they're in the conference finals. They've beaten the Celtics, they had some tough games against Detroit, which is an up and coming team. They were in the final four of the NBA. You don't hear anybody complaining about tims is playing the guys too much, right, I mean, it's just a narrative that that somebody gets on and somebody
takes it and runs off with it. And whether it makes sense or not or whatever, you know, you always people always are going to use it to whatever way they want to skew the argument, right, And if they're if they're losing some games, it's gonna be oh they ran out of gas. They played brunts and forty three minutes. You can't do that then to play you know whatever, it's gonna be. And so you know, Tibbs is gonna coach the way Tibbs has. Look he did it in Chicago, Uh,
he did in Minnesota. You know the way he's he always coaches the Knicks new That's how he coaches.
That's how he's.
Gonna be if he can get his team uh, to a to a high level, which obviously they have. And they made the big trade last summer, and they went all in on this group by making the trade for Karl Anthony Towns and also bringing in Michael Bridges and giving up a bunch of their draft picks and all that kind of stuff they had in the bank, and they rolled the dice on it. And again things have fallen their way, right, they won, They won three games.
I think it was in the Detroit series, like in the last thirty seconds, things the ball fell their way. They made a shot, they got to stop, they got to steal the Celtics the same thing in game one, and then they got the they got the thing with Tatum. And so to this point, those breaks that they some of them they've made themselves, but some of them have happened for them. And in whatever way you want to interpret it, they find themselves now in the conference finals.
And uh, you know, in being New York, as you know very well Spence firsthand, you know, whether they win, they'll be the greatest, the greatest thing on earth. And if they lose, they'll they will be down in the depths of you know, in the under six feet under the ground and and they will be this guy's fault and that guy's fault and the other guy's fault and whatever. And that's just the way it is in New York.
And at the moment, the ride and high. So we'll see what happens at starting tomorrow night.
Honestly, I was just I was kind of chuckling, but I was a little bit nervous. I mean, We're watching Ogiannaobe guarding Baylor Shireman, and I'm like, what what are we doing here on the other side of things. I'll continue to give you credit as a guy that's like, look, anything can happen. Come playoff basketball, and more often than not, in a seven game series, the best team does advance. And maybe Indiana was just the best team. But Cleveland
was so good in the regular season. And Kenny gets Coach of the Year and Donovan's probably going to be first team All NBA, Mobley gets Defensive Player of the Year, and you know, it was interesting, Smitty. After Game six, it was a game six or game five, Game six, when the Pacers one, whichever the clothes out was, Kenny Atkinson readily admitted, like they're at a level that we're not like they're better than we are right now, and then Rick Carlisle steps to the podium and owns it.
He's like, yeah, we're flying. We're playing the best basketball we played all year long, which is the old cliche, right, play the right way at the right time of year. What do you make of the way the Pacers were able to get rid of Donovan and the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Well, it was it was a great series for them.
First of all, they have been running, running hot the second half of the season. They've been playing very well. The Indiana Pacers. They after they stumbled out of the gates early in November and December, and Halliburton, you know, maybe wasn't his usual self whatever early in the season, but they got their feet under them. They got through the All Star break, they played very well the second half, and they've just they've just gotten on a you know what some people would call a heater.
They've they've played, they're playing well.
It's not a surprise because they're a good team and they've got good players. But when they play together and the way Rick Carlisle has them, how they share the ball, they move it, it doesn't matter who gets the credit, but Halliburton is the key for them, and he's got that kind of a personality like Gildess Alexander does or for OKC and Jalen Brunson does with the Knicks where they're the catalyst, but they don't. They all have that mindset that they don't care who else does it as
long as it gets done. And the Pacers are on that kind of a role. And winning that first game in Cleveland where they came back and they were doubt they should have lost it, and they they again, the ball bounced their way a couple of times and Mitchell got the offensive foul call that was questionable, and then Haliburton misses a free throw, but he ends up with the ball back as a rebound, which should never happen in the NBA, and is able to stick that three
at the buzzer. You know, those are the things that have to take place along the way if you're going to have some kind of an extended playoff run. So none of these things are a surprise. It's just when you're the team that that it's happening too in a positive way. You want to keep those things going and you want to make sure that your mindset doesn't trick you into thinking that you're better than you are.
That you understand. Okay, we got to break there.
Okay, the other game the guy fell down and lost the ball, you know, whatever it is. And so but we have to stick to what we believe we can do to the best of our ability to give us a chance to be successful. And I think they're going to be two terrific series, I really do. I think it's gonna be fun to watch.
Before we catch a break, I have a question about Donovan, and in the question I will insert an opinion and then I want you to go.
And you might get mad at.
Me for this. I'm already mad Spence.
Okay, well that's that's the smitty mo.
I can see it coming.
Always angry, because here's the thing, Like, ultimately, if you just look at the numbers and you look at some of the playoff explosions he has, he's in the most rarefied of air, including Mike, including Iverson, including like individual playoff scoring, Donovan is on a short list of somebody who's been able to do what he's done throughout the first seven eight years of his career, never been out of the second round, and certainly, I'm not putting a
team sport on one player, but I noticed at times here and maybe he was out of necessity and at times in Cleveland, like when he just goes all in
on doing his own thing. It's really fun to watch at times because he's that talented and he's that good and he can get his own But at times it feels like his teammates stand around and watch him and suddenly they're not cutting, or they're not guarding, or they're not boxing out, and you've got a bunch of guys standing watching one dude do his thing, and at times maybe at the expense of the team, and then at
times he runs out of gas. We saw it a time, and look, Cleveland has to rely on him in a very heavy way offensively because he is that good, and you guys did the same thing because he is that dynamic.
But at times does feel.
Like he puts blinders on to the point where maybe it's not conducive to team winning.
Is that fair or what are your thoughts on it?
Yeah, I would push back on that somewhat spence. He you know, he does those things because he knows that he can do them. He knows that his team is relying on him, that the heavy load is on him. But that stuff you're talking about, that's on the other guys. Sure, the other guys, that's their problem, their fault if they're standing around watching him instead of instead of cutting baseline, instead of spacing out weak side, instead of going and getting a screen on somebody or rolling to the front
of the rim or whatever it is. That's on the other guys to not be ball watches on the other guys to understand this is what's going on. My guy is about to spin dribble to his left and get in the lane and try and do a double pump
or something at the dotted line. So I got to get in a position for potential rebound, or I got to at least get in front of my guy and try and box him out so maybe we can get offensive tip or something in those In those circumstances, Donovan, I can tell you he's all about trying to win. He's all about trying to do what he can to affect winning for his group, and uh and those things that when they've come up short, it hasn't been because of him. He gives a maximum effort, as you alluded
to you know, big scoring numbers and all that. That's what he's there to do in those instances, and it's on his teammates to fill in the cracks and do the other things, you know, to get you over the hump.
Are you ready with your Jazz draft trivia question for one lucky listener to go play eighteen holes at Bonneville or just a basketball.
I got yeah, Well, I'm trying to think of something that's not easy for people to just remember.
Google it.
Yeah, I know, find it.
I know it's okay. The Jazz the nineteen nineteen ninety seven draft the NBA. The Jazz had as their point guards John Stockton.
And Howard Eisley.
Howard Eisley, and yet they still decided in the late first round to pick another point guard. It did you know, to give them three point guards in a in a in a summer where Howard Eisley was going to be a free agent, and so caused a little consternation, But it was a best player available.
Thing.
Who was the Jazz's first round pick in nineteen ninety seven.
Went on to become a head coach. Can we give that hints? Can we give that hintra now?
See now now the walls are crumbling. Now you're giving it, giving it all away.
Eight seven seven three five three zero seven hundred text in the name, and we're going to send you to play golf at Bonneville, my home course. Eighteen holes to Bonneville eight seven seven three five three zero seven hundred more with Smithy coming up on the.
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I have Morris Smitty coming up next right here, AUDIESPN seven hundred NBA Playoff basketball returns tonight. The conference finals in the West is first Oklahoma City taken on Minnesota, and then tomorrow night it will be the Knicks and the Celtics live from the Mecca, the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Let's get his mic on Richard Smith. I didn't always I always love that Spence. I always love the world's most famous arena.
It's such an audacious player, and I.
Always I always quickly say myself self proclaimed.
It's very it's it's very audacious.
It's one of those things you just say it out loud, and you know, people just tend to latch onto it.
Yeah, I know, I know, I know.
But we we did a lot on the Knicks Pacers last series. Talked a little Donovan, talked a little Calves. Let's move over and ow to the West and we'll end with some jazz for this segment, Smitty, Let's start in Minnesota, where your old friend Rudy Gobert resides, your old friend Mike Conley resides, Joey Ingles, Nikkeil, Alexander Walker. Kind of the jazz version Midwest Jazz, Midwest team that actually is still playing and actually is good.
Unlike the jazz. We'll get to that in the moment.
You know, we talked about this with the Tatum stuff, and I don't know if Golden State beats them with Steph Curry. I know it looks a lot different, certainly, But what do you make of And I read this earlier, and I was unaware the top two records in pro basketball since March first, Oklahoma City won Minnesota two didn't start out that well. They were trying to figure out the Randall stuff, you know, and Julius Randall is a
very talented individual, offensive scorer. At times, I think the Knicks asked a little too much of him, and he was an All Star once upon a time, obviously a very capable player. He seems to have settled in quite a bit. What do you make of how Chris Finch's coaches team of the Western Conference Finals.
Yeah, I think that it's taken a little while to adjust. But you know, I think Randall is in a good spot because he doesn't have to be the guy. He doesn't have to be doing all the heavy lift. And obviously with with Anthony Edwards there and so he takes a lot of the spotlight off. But Randall is a good,
good player in the mid post. And he's also a better passer than most people think, and a willing passer, and I think he fits in well with that group, you know, on the other side from Jade McDaniels, who's who's really a good wing defender, has become a serviceable three point shooter, and they've gotten a nice rhythm going.
And Rudy has always been the ultimate team guy. He just you know, tries to fill in the cracks where he can and make himself available on the offensive end and does what he does defensively.
And so they're on a nice role, you know.
And I think it's gonna be a really competitive series. I really think the home teams are going to are
going to prevail during this this round. I just think that those guys, they seem to both play better a little bit more energize with their home crowds, which are both really terrific you know, during the playoffs, and so I think it's gonna be fun to watch, and it's gonna be interesting to see how they come out the old Rust versus Rest, you know, a debate will happen tonight between Okay, see just coming off a tough seven game series and finishing up forty eight hours ago basically,
and Minnesota having almost a week off, and so it's gonna be interesting to see how the two teams come out.
Oddly enough, OKC six and two with one day of rest during the playoffs in Minnesota two and four with more than three days of rest, and they have five days of rest obviously, Okay, see a bunch of bunch of young players probably don't need as much rest as some of the teams that are a little bit older. Let me let me ask you about Rudy though you know, I was watching it was game six Nick Celtics, and there was one possession where Mitchell Robinson was guarding I
think it was Luke Cornette. A pass went out to the wing, Robinson goes out and closes out, comes back down check Cornette. Then the ball goes to the corner to Jalen Brown and Mitchell Robinson goes out and closes out guarded.
Like three different positions.
The way that the game is played now, it asks a lot from a big to guard on the perimeter, to get out and close out, to guard multiple players. And Rudy does as well as anybody, but for some reason does not get the credit.
Why do you Why do you think that is?
It feels like there's just people that have dubbed their heels in and they're just gonna hate everything he does.
Yeah, and I.
Think that that's Uh, I think you just said a lot there, Spence. I think some people get out a certain narrative and then they just won't let it go for whatever reason. It's you know, it's unfortunate. You know, you have to really watch the games and pay attention to to what's going on, and and and you realize all of the we we had a in house metrics system.
Uh.
That was a proprietary thing that we that the Jazz developed when I was there to gauge our our defensive analytics and stuff and to go off off the page of of what what the numbers showed you and uh, and Rudy constantly, you know, graded so so far above everybody else in the league in terms of what he meant on the defensive end to teams in games. And he continues to do that. You know, he's gotten to the point in his career where he knows that he doesn't have to do all of these you know a
bunch of things in the basket. He just has to do some of them, and do them very well and and let the other people do what they're supposed to be doing in order to have have some level of success. And he's he's learned how to do that, and he's smart about it, and and and he's a guy that's going to be a very valuable key from Minnesota in the series if they're going to have any success.
It's funny you reference and I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of your in house metric system as it pertains to the way Rudy impacted winning, But it reminds me of an interview I did when I was doing the show at Gordon and we had Dennis on. We had Dennis lindsay on, and he hit us with like ten straight stats about everything Rudy.
Does you know?
Offensive field goal percentage, rebound percentage, black percentage, the opponent's field goal percentage against Rudy at the rim.
I mean I lost track after a while.
He just boom boom boom boom boom boom. Did you guys ever feel like you had to stand up for him? Did you ever feel like the heat he was getting with so unfair that as an organization you had to get out in front of it a little bit?
Yeah, I mean there was some of that because it's you know, a lot of the noise you hear, you know, is around up from people who are lazy, who just you know, take some you know, the cream off the top and and and leave the rest of the dessert there and don't don't bother digging in to see what
else is going on and and uh. And it always felt bad for him because not only was Rudy an integral part of what those jazz teams did as his as his career progressed, but he also we also knew, you know, behind closed doors, that Rudy was one of our guys who was really about helping the team to whatever extent he could to be successful. It wasn't about his own honors, it wasn't about you know, getting attention to himself. He really cared about how the team was doing.
And and sometimes when he got attacked, and in that regard, you felt bad for him because you knew that he was trying to do the things that the coaches were asking him to do, you know, within his ability and his skill level to be able to execute that. And when it didn't go well, or you know, you missed an assignment, or you missed something that happened and people
were pointing to you. You know, you just felt that it was unfair because you knew he was one of your guys who was trying to do the right thing, even if if he failed.
Sometimes, do you think that it affected him on a personal level, like behind closed doors? You know, because the Draymond stuff it got so old, but it wasn't just Draymond. I mean, it felt like and it still feels like quite Frankly, I was watching I was watching some earlier today. It was Gilbert A. Renus who just decided to attack Rudy. He was like, he's the liability on this Minnesota team.
And like I said, it feels like there's a faction of people in the league that have just decided I don't like him.
Yeah.
Do you think behind closed doors it really hurt him? Do you think it got to him?
Sure?
Yeah, No, I think he I think he's he's human like anybody, and you know, he would like to be recognized for his efforts and for the work he puts in. And you know, I'll tell you what nobody worked harder on on his body and on his ability to move, you know, from side to side, and you know with his hips and being able to u recover uh than he did. And he always uh, you know, he always put the work in. He always put the time in. Look,
he's he's seven to two. He's got some limited true athletic ability.
Uh.
And then the rest of the stuff he asked to you know, make up with, you know, whether with his length or with his smarts, or with his instincts or what have you. And and he was always someone who would do that. And it's it's easy that you know, a lot of the national guys, it's just a lazy narrative because they don't want to do the work and they don't really look at it. They just kind of
jump on a bandwagon. And you know, as you know, spencing this business, it's all about you know, clicks and you know, sound bites and whatever, and you know, whatever is easy and and and so that's unfortunate, you know, and you know, but but Rudy has never backed down, you know, from his teammates and his coaches, and has always been there to to uh to give a maximum effort from what he can do. And yeah, he'd like
to be one of the boys in the room. And you know, have all the other guys, you know, dap them up and all that kind of stuff, and you know, accept them into the club, so to speak. And there's some guys who are jealous that he's been recognized as uh four time NBA Defensive Player of the Year. And you know it's interesting, uh you know, similar, not the same, but maybe in the same uh, in the same boat as.
Uh.
Now now I'm blanket out on his name that the center who won the defensive Player of the Year awards for the Detroit Pistons in the in the two thousands, who.
Was also a non Ben Wallace.
Yeah, Ben Wallas a non a non offensive guy, you know. Uh, but Ben Wallace, you know, Rudy was longer. Rudy's you know, more effective. Maybe I don't know, Ben Wallace presents you know, maybe a little tougher persona or personality maybe.
I don't know.
But you never heard any of those criticism of anybody about Ben Wallace, you know, or you know that he was short on offensive production or couldn't do this or that or whatever. And and for whatever reason, Rudy has gotten that.
I don't know what that is. You know.
Again, I think somebody way down the road, you know, started that narrative and then just kind of, you know, jumped down the bandwagon and decided to ride with it man, you.
Know well and with little jazz stuff. But before we get there, I know your reference. You like both teams that have home court advantage. My only hesitancy with Oklahoma City, I guess is the way I'll put this.
I mean, look, they have everything that you want.
They have depth, they have star power, they have great coaching, they guard, they can score in a myriad of different ways. I always hesitate to anoint a team if I haven't seen them do it before. Minnesota was in the Western Conference Finals a year ago. Oklahoma City beat the Pelicans, then got smoked by the MAVs. Do you feel like this is Okayse's time or which way you leaning.
On both sides?
No, I just I think it's gonna be, you know, come down to, you know, beating a dead horse or spence. But but the team that can avoid injury can avoid somebody, you know, not.
Playing in a game.
Say, for example, somebody picks up three quick fouls and is out extended time and the other team is able to take advantage of that. Hopefully we don't get another Steph Courry or Jason Tatum thing and everybody can play at full strength and you can just see, you know, what's going on. I think if all the guys are on the floor, and all the guys are available and playing the way that they're capable, that's that's why I'm excited for both series, because I think they're both going
to be very competitive. I think the team that keeps its head within itself doesn't get caught up in all the you know, the historyonics they can happen at this point in the playoffs and people yelling at the referees every other whistle and and getting upset about things, If you can keep your calm and just stay and in your moment and and try and concentrate on what you need to do next, I think that that's those are the teams that are going to have a head up and have a better chance.
Of succeed succeeding in getting to the finals.
All right, before we let you go for today, let's do a little Jazz basketball. So the draft is coming up on June the twenty fifth. The Jazz have number five, they have number twenty one, They have forty three and fifty three, So to first two seconds. You know, Bobby Marks joined us yesterday and did a really really good job of outlining you know my question him was okay. So the narrative is the NBA is now built for parody, and the NBA is now built by design for every
team in every city to have a shot. So over the past seven years, we've seen Denver win a championship, We've seen Milwaukee win a championship. This year we have Indianapolis, we have Minnesota, Oklahoma City. Three of the final four teams. It is a perfect time for a team that plays their basketball in Salt Lake City to be able to capitalize on the landscape of the NBA. Unfortunately, the Jazz aren't ready, and there's five years left in the CBA.
It expires in twenty thirty. I don't know what's going to happen.
I know there's a lot of pushback from people that don't like the way this thing has played out. There are several reports. I don't know how much of this is real. I don't know how much of this is true that the Jazz are going to be bold. They're going to be bold this offseason. They have the assets, they have the picks, they have the space, they have the young players. What does a successful offseason look like for the Utah Jazz midty.
Well, I think they are they have to be bold because they have nowhere to go but up there there. They not only had the worst record in the in the league this past season, but they by a lot of defensive metrics, they were one of, if not the worst defensive team, uh in a lot of years historically. But yeah, I mean they just you know, they're just not very good at the moment. So there's nobody that's
on the on the team that's untouchable. In my opinion, I think you know, when you're when you have the worst record and you're not showing that you're making any progress because this this defensive malaise, if you will, has been the the mantra the last couple of years. You know, then then uh, you you have to make changes. So it wouldn't surprise me that they try and make a lot of moves. Uh, make a lot of changes. What does that yield? What does it look like? All those
things you know are up for grabs. I think they're going to be doing a lot of soul searching, uh, in terms of what is the next step that we're going to have to make to be able to start seeing some kind of a relevant improvement in what we're trying to do. Again, people get frustrated, people get upset about what's what's taking place at the moment. Obviously, you you go from hoping you get the first pick to the fifth pick. Doesn't work out, and so now you're
even more frustrated. But Spence, they've only been doing this for three years, and you know sometimes these things take five, six, seven years, and and and some times longer. You know, you don't have control over some of the things, like the draft, like the draft lottery last week. So to your point, a lot of things are gonna be on the table, a lot of things are gonna they're gonna.
Be trying to do.
How much do they do, you know, to to to the to the Danny angel A mantra of big game hunting. They're gonna be trying to do a lot of that in different ways. Uh, do they come back with anything, Do they have a whole different scheme in terms of their team and and what their personnel looks like in
uh next October remains to be seen. But but I think everything's on the table for them because they've gotta they've got to show that they're which I know they're willing to do, because Danny angels Willing has shown in the past he's willing to do anything. Uh, but they have to show that they can start making moves that that look like they're making improvement and look like that
they're they're moving in the right direction. Uh, you know, for the uh, for the benefit of their of their season ticket holders, their fans, everybody who who are die hard jazz fans.
Do you think they approach next year with best foot forward instead of inventing injuries and having Walker Castler shoot seven threes a night.
Well, I think they.
I think they have to get they have to make some kind of a show that looks like they are
getting better, they are improving, you know. To do another year of this thing that they just did is gonna be difficult, only from this standpoint that they're gonna be having people breathing down their necks to say, hey, you just did that and it didn't it didn't work out, so you're gonna do it again, you know, And so that's that's gonna that would be a hard sell, you know, to their fan base, and uh and look, nobody wants to lose, and nobody wants to do it on purpose.
Everybody wants to try and be a better version of themselves. And I'm sure sure they're going to kick the tires on a lot of different things in the next several months to see, you know how they can get that going in the right direction.
Great to see you, my friend. We'll let you get some rest. Thanks for the time, Okay, all nice fense. Richard Smith. I want to remind you guys to join me Monday, June the twenty third for the twenty twenty five Van neud Charity Golf Challenge at the Black Desert Resort in scenic Saint George. All the proceedings from this tournament go to benefit the Van nor Valor Foundation that helps foster kids in the Adoption Foundation. Kyle was adopted as an infant, so this cause is very meaningful to
him and his family. We're going to be down there, come hang out with us. It starts on Sunday, June the twenty second, with a welcome cocktail party at seven o'clock. Then on Monday it's an eight am check in and breakfast welcome is at eight forty five. A shotgun start is at nine am, then the awards will take place at two thirty. Lunch is served on the course. Van Nei Golf twenty five. Dot givesmart dot com is the website. Van Neid Golf twenty twenty five. Dot giftsmart dot com
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