Find me to the moon.
Let me play among the stars. All right, here we go live on site today. We're a little south, but it's not that bad. Come on by and say hi, it's Tim Dolly Nissan Southtown one five South Jordan Gateway. Easiest thing to do is put Tim Dowly Nissan Southtown in your GPS and follow it out. They've got vehicles priced to move. It's there your end sale. But most importantly, if you've never met the legend himself, Richard Smith, and the actual legend himself, Coach Frank Laydon live on site. Coach.
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas. How are you, sir?
Same to you and your family and to everyone you know, and you.
Hold it to you certainly deserve it. Thank you, sir. It's smitty. Happy holidays, Merry Christmas. Great to see you.
Thanks mane we uh. We had a nice time driving out here. I went to uh Uh to see the new Bob Dylan movie yesterday with some friends over here at Jordan Commons and I have friends who live near the University of Utah, and they came out and they said, gee, I thought I was driving to California or something coming out here, because they never go past twenty first, you know. So I said, come on, I'm trying to expand your world and trying to get you into a new realm.
And Coach and I came out here and beautiful place here at tim Dally Nissan and they have a great place here and great great folks you know, ready here to help you.
I know, recommend the movie.
It was great. You enjoyed it, Okay, you know it's good. The actor Timothy Shallomy, you know, young guy. He does a great job with Bob Dylan. I had had gone back and watched a few early Bob Dylan things conterviews and stuff, and didn't realize how much this actor looked like him back there in the early days when he was in his early twenties in New York. And and he did a fantastic job. And it was there's a great storyline, you know, learning about the early years he was in New York.
Cool, very nice. I'll have to check it out. Coach. I wonder how much how much Jazz basketball are you watching this year?
Well? I get on TV, okay, so I mean that's a lot. I watch every game.
You watch every game? Yes, okay, how do you think the progress is coming along with some of these younger players we're trying to learn about.
I have to be honest with you in this respect, and uh and all fans to everyone concerned. I don't know what it was like from the beginning. Okay, I don't intend their workouts. I don't know what they're looking to do, all right. I think they've got some good young talent.
Uh. Does it become the is it? Is it? Well? Eventually? Be you a foundation or is it what you're what you're building the house on. I don't know.
I I think there's sometimes I like them very much. Sometimes I find it a little frustrating.
But I think that's what all of us. I don't know. You know, it's interesting. I said to Smithy coming over.
I was watching the game by myself last night, watching the game, and it could be anybody, right, it didn't matter whether Jazz or somebody else. And I said to myself, is this a game that I recognize what has happened? I'm thinking, I know there's going to be changes, you know, whether it's baseball, football or anything else. You know, if I look at say baseball, has there been great changes? Yeah?
In the equipment size, of the athlete training perspectives. So like that the athletes better, but the records keep going up. I mean, guys are still hitting home runs and what have you. So in football, you know, linebackers when I was playing, they were one sixty eight, not at two eighty yet, right, so you know the game changes that the physical Cybernar and I watched basketball, and I say, is this a game? I don't recognize. It's not the
game I started out playing. And I think somewhat, if I had to say, and if I had sum it up in one word, what is different? I'm not saying, but I mean, it's not better. The athletes are better. The game is probably better, I mean as the referee and is better. Uh, and certainly the players from from one to twelve or better. But I do say this that I don't know what it's about. Is it about just trying to outscore the other guys? I'll play them, out run them. Is it a foot racer? Is a is it a marathon?
You know, I don't know.
I I'd really have to sit down, maybe with a couple of old timers and a couple of new people in the game and see what they're what they're trying to obtain. I don't know what their goals are. I have to be honest with you. I think you used to be able to put say, say on a team, on a coach and the staff or an organization. This is a team that plays control bad. Red Holsman held the ball, you know, And the fans used to holler defense, defense in the garden. But it wasn't defense. It was
how selfish they were. They never turned the ball over. They always took good shots, and they were good shot They were good players obviously. You know, I'm going back to the championship teams of Bill Bradley, those guys.
By any way, Yeah, And I don't know.
I found a very hard to do that with teams today. Is there some coach out there or some team out that I can say, Wow, you're going to have your hands full because Jerry Sloan is coaching, and then they're going to be a tough defensive team and he's going to make great demands of them, of.
Their bodies and what have you.
Frankly, and without without interjecting Jerry Sloan, there is I don't I can't put my finger on it.
Is that crazy? I don't know.
No, it's it's interesting because I wondered what you're and I was going to ask you about the actual product, because there's in Smitty and I've talked about this. There's this debate that's going on right now about why people aren't watching the NBA the way they used to.
Now.
The Christmas Day games pulled some good numbers. They were also awesome games, and they featured some of the biggest stars that we have in the league. But Smittie, when you hear Frank talk about the product and not being better or worse, just but just being different, is it the analytical effect where everyone's trying to hunt threes? Is everyone trying to play like Boston? Like, what are your thoughts on the different product?
Yeah? I think I think a couple of things, Spence. One is that the NBA has set up the defensive rules over the last ten years to encourage more open play. More. You know, you can't hand check, you can't get guys out out in front, you can't keep them, you know, with your hand or with an arm bar, and so
guys have a free reign to the basket. So and then you couple that with the analytics that everybody's into now, and some teams do it way overboard, and my opinion, other teams use it to you know, to their advantage.
But it's but all the analytics show that you have a greater chance of winning an individual game if you either get all your shots at the rim, which means you know, driving the ball one on one, getting in a lane, getting a scene, getting to the rim, or getting there the defense collapses and then you kick it
out to a three point shooter. So everybody is trying to get If you look at their shot charts in recent years, most teams are really overweighted where you have all these attempts at the rim or all these attempts from three point land. Last night, for example, the Jazz shot forty two threes, which is which is a big number. Now. They had it rolling. They shot fifty percent. You know, if you can shoot fifty percent from three, then you should be taking that that number. Three's right. But they
had a great night. It fell short because you know, it plays at the end of the game and they got beat on a buzzer beater. But but that's what
all the coaches are coaching now. And then the coaches point, you know, the guys are more athletic that they're they're quicker, they're uh, they they get they get their first step quicker off the bounce because the defense is is is in a tough position because unless you're a really good reactionary player and you can really uh stay in front of a guy, you're usually playing a step or two off because you know he's trying to get an advantage putting the ball on the floor and getting to the rim.
So if you if you play off him too much, then he's he's coached to just shoot over the top, Just take the three step back, whatever you've got to do, and shoot it over the top. And if you come up on him and you think you're a good defensive player, he's going to put it down and he's going to try and get in that lane. And that's what they coach him. There's no more screening. Uh. They they're all
fake screens. Everybody plays scripts, slip screens. They don't they don't actually screen a guy like John Stockton used to do. There's no weak side action to screen to get a guy open, to get a guy cut baseline, anything like that. Everything's five out that nobody plays through the post anymore.
And that's because of the drive of analytics now, and the coach is believing that that they have a better chance to win the game when they play that kind of ball, either at the rim or three point shooting.
I wonder is there any way to zig when everybody's zagging? Like, Okay, everybody's playing like this, and everybody looks at what Joe Mazzoo has done in Boston, but not everybody has that roster, right, So it's like when everybody said, okay, well Steph is doing this, can we do what? No, you can't do that because he's one of one. So I wonder if there's a way to coach like coach it differently, to come up with a different game plan to counter what
everybody's doing because not everybody has that talent. Does that make sense?
Oh yes, but I think you have to be who you are.
He have a coach? Would you know? Okay, and would you believe it?
All right? Uh?
You know is come out of spread the floor? All right? There's a lot of coaches who don't realize that. You know, the.
Offense starts the strong side, the width of the floor is being started. The minuature retain possession of the wall, whether that be a steal or a rebound. Everybody should start to get ready to form that infield when they get down into the shooting area. I don't see enough of that, I think, And that has to be by design.
It has to be practiced and has to be preached.
But whether you hire I don't know Pat Riley all right to come back into the game and say, alright, go coach.
Would he be stumbling by this?
No.
I think Pat would probably recruit or sign players that fit into his pattern and then he would coach them accordingly, you know. But I think the game is still one from the inside out, counting what you're going to get on fast.
Breaks and whatever. If forty eight what they shoot last night said.
Forty eight forty two threes, and how many of those threes were good shots?
Right, we don't know, you know, common.
Those led to baskets down the other end giving the ball up.
So I mean, you have to you have to see the game.
But I think you've got to have a philosophy and you've got to live within that philosophy.
You know.
It was like Jerry Sloan and I we never had an argument.
I mean we never discussed something about players or or what we're what we're going to do at a certain time in the game or in the season. We seem to agree all the time, but one time we did everything. Is that I used to like to see the defensive slide within each other.
And Jerry Sloan was always over the top. You've got to play a man, get in as Jock, stay on top of him.
And overall his philosophy was correct. We fouled a little bit more and.
But we got it. We start to get up. You take being a pretty good defensive date.
You know, Samity, I wonder what your thoughts are on the dynamic of because the coach's point, you have to be who you are, and you know, analyze your personnel. And as I said, I mean maybe Joe Mazzola is a genius, or maybe he has the best roster in pro basketball. And you know, you can't replicate what other
teams are doing when you don't have that personnel. So is there some way that because you have to adapt and adjust, and if what you're doing is not as good as what the other guy's doing, maybe there's a different way you can approach playing the game or have analytics just seeped in. Because the other thing I hear a lot of people say is they feel like most teams play the same. Does that make sense?
Yeah? I think, well, I think you know, everybody's you know, has some kind of a weighted usage of the analytics stuff. Sometimes it's the head coach. Sometimes it comes from the front office, from a general manager or play a personnel, a guy you know who's an analytics driven person. Hey.
Sometimes in this day and age spence, it even goes all the way to the owner because several of the owners now are tech guys, you know, whether it's the Jazz owner Ryan Smith, who comes from the tech background, or or Steve Balmer and with the Clippers, or Mark Cuban with Dallas, you know, and Vivick Renadev who's who's the owner of the Sacramento Kings. You know, they all have tech backgrounds, so they wait. Also they think that that kind of stuff, you know, makes a lot of sense.
I one of the things I see in the game is, you know, to coaches point is that I don't think, uh, there are enough players who play defense aggressively enough to force the action of what they want, in other words, to be, you know, to to to be the one who dictates the action. You know, there's too many players and too many teams in the NBA who are reactionary defenders.
In other words, they sit back and they wait to see what the offensive guy is gonna do, and then they try to catch up or they try to stop
them when it's too late. You know. One of the Jazz's issues all last year and so far to this point this year is that they have a problem with their transition defense, in particular, because they don't get out and stop the ball when it gets over half court, and they don't make the dribbler pick up the ball and and and get it in his hand for a second or two, you know, make them pass it east to west so that then the defense can get back to coaches point and set up that defense, you know,
that tier of defense and play inside out defensively. Nobody does that and and the Jazz don't do it now defensively. So that's that's either because they can't do it, or because they're they're they're too lazy to do it as individual players, or it's because they're not they don't have the physical ability to get up and stop guys early, you know, in their track and and that's but that's not just them, that's a lot of the NBA. You know, Oklahoma City's getting a lot of credit so far this
year for being a top defensive team. And that's one of the things I see them when I watch them play, is that they get up in you early, and they they dictate the action. In other words, they're trying to tell the offense no, no, no, we're not going to let you run your play and get the ball to the guy you're trying to get it to. We're going to get up in you. We're gonna get under you with the ball. We're gonna deny the guy who's trying to get up over a screen to get the pass.
And now we're making you do something you don't want to do. From a defensive standpoint. Not enough teams do that in the NBA. Most teams sit back and try and recover, you know, you know, when it's too late. I mean, how many times you see guys coming over a half court and transition and the defensive players back up, back up, back up, and then all of a sudden they're at the rim and it's all over.
See in her quarter We let the guy out there keep his it be likely saying to the quarterback, or there's only a few seconds left, so you got back there and look around and see what you want to do, rather than being the aggressor and taking that away from them. You know, I thought there was I learned something I thought was important.
Early in my career in the pros.
Hubie Brown was the coach at the with Atlanta, and he used to say, tell me three things that I can take away from the other team. What three things do they do the best stuff? And those are three things I want to go after and I want to change. The other thing I thought was interesting was sense of responsibility.
Let's take for inst I'll take it.
I'll take him because he happened to be one of my favorite players was Bobby Hanson. Bobby Hanson would have the tough job of taking on Michael Jordan or Magic, right o Magic. But you can't stop Michael Jordan nor Magic. Yep, all right, So I'd say, well, what's the AFTERRAWA just from I don't know, Let's say Michael Jordan's averaging twenty eight points a game. I'd say, all right, can you hold them? The twenty four. Can you hold them to
twenty six? That's hold them is they keep them within range. If we can keep this team, if everybody does that down the line and we have them off, what their production is gonna be?
All right?
And we see a sense of responsibility. Someone jumps over you a couple of times, beat you, then someone else is coming in to do the job.
And the players should all know.
That they're going to get this opportunity, and if they do, then challenge them to do that.
But you know, we were our analytics are a little different, but I thought we could.
Win if we gave up nine offensive rebounds and a half. That's eighteen in the game. That seems like a lot. But we're not gonna go above it.
And the chance is that we're gonna fight to stay down below it. All right.
We're gonna so many fast breaks, We're gonna make so many free throws. We're gonna get to the free throw line. Anybody gets an offensive rebound automatically has the option to get the next shot, to take it right back up. I'm not going to fool around with it. You get an offensive rebound, great, So you get guys like John Drew who just eat up the offensive board to get the ball back so they could get back to the board and take it, maybe get a three point play out of.
It, you know.
Yeah.
Uh, And I think there's a time and you have to shut it down. And they say that's enough. Three points today, three point shots to today, you know, except for you know, if it's one or second or something. But everyone knows that's it. But I mean they pump them up there and and I don't know, like I say, it's a different game. It's a different game than I remember. And I'm not sure that if everybody buys this game, you know, it's it's a little it's a little too uh, it's a little wild sometimes.
Yeah, And that might be to your point. It's about the ratings and stuff. You know. I think that we've talked before about a lot of different other options of entertainment and how to spend your time, you know, nowadays with the access to the internet and the younger generation
having other options that they prefer to go to. But but I think the coaches, if you're uh, if you're playing a sloppy game, if you're playing just you know, chuck them up, like you know, some games look like a version of the All Star Game where guys just come over half court and one pass and shoot, one pass and shoot, or no, no pass and shoot, whatever it is. And I think sometimes at the fans at some point they go, well, you know, are they really trying or is it just kind of a you know,
we're just freewheeling out here. Yeah.
No, it might be owners, owners and coaches were afraid of the players.
Yeah, what do you mean, I'm not going to take a shot. I'm not going to get a shot. Yes, then you won't be around long for me. So I mean you got to you gotta take control. And then you've got to.
Get support from above. Authority comes from above, and so the owners support the coach. The coach sets out as a plan, and uh, and they actually they don't. And and then somewhere along the line, we have to get good players, right, we can't do with yeah, poor players. But if we have good players, we should have expectations and we should try to reach those expectations. And if we don't, we should be able to answer for them with the salaries that they are.
I think one of my favorite old frankisms was, if you're gonna make a mistake. Make it a big mistake, right, big, go big, right, And so I wanted to get your thoughts on what we're seeing from Walker Walker Kessler, who really is having a solid third season. I don't know if he reminds you of Mark at all, but he really can protect the paint. He's a great shot blocker, and he's still very young. As you've watched Walker Kesler play, Frank, what are your what are some of your time?
I like Walker Kessler very much and I like what he does. He gets to the boy, blocks some shots and everything else. But I'm not I wouldn't compare him with with say marky Mark, he could stand well. Kareem was the one that told me you was scared the death of Mark. He says he's always afraid to hit him in the head sometime. You knowmber Caream used to wear used to wear binoculars, and so you know, because he said he all he looked up and all he said was elbow to elbow outside him and he didn't
face that many guys. And I think you know the old the old saying about just keeping you between your man and the ball, and it's welly man, you know, it's it's every everybody, and I like the idea that the blocking of shots or something.
I don't know. Defensive player of the year.
Who is it this year?
Well? Last year was Rudy. Rudy Gobert has been the defensive player there for the.
Last and is he the defensive player of the year? That's oh, that's that question. I mean he I know he gets he would.
But is he?
Who does he got and who's he take out of the game? Everybody's another guy the size of him and has to be taken up on the other team.
Is he?
Are you asking who Rudio this year is?
Not?
Not?
Who is he?
As a guy?
I think he's a good players, tough player and everything else. But to say he's the best defensive player in the year, maybe it was, So what's wrong?
Yeah?
This year the favorite is Victor Weman Yama. The Vegas favorite is the young kid who plays for the Spurs. Have you seen him play?
Yes?
Have you ever seen anything like that?
Yes?
I mean have I ever seen him? It's all ahead of him. Yes, he's a fine player. Yeah, but you know, I don't know. I'm looking for that guy, Like I said, I'm looking for that guy who says, Yeah, I'm throwing my body out there every night.
Would be the best defensive player in the steam mm hmm. And of course he'll go differ because of the size of the athletes and went out.
So Fittie Walker at this point is averaging nearly three blocks a game. He's at two point nine blocks a game. He's had eleven points. They're shooting eleven boards, so ten points, eleven boards, three blocks. You and I last year talked a lot about what's up? What's up of this kid who everybody was pumped about year one. I think he probably, for me, is the best story for Jazz basketball this year. What have you What have you seen year three growth from Walker?
Yeah? Well, I think what he's doing now, the way he's playing for me is it looks like the game is slowing down a little bit for him. It looks like he's not trying to do, you know, things that are out of his lane. In other words, he's just doing the things that that come natural to him. But that will that feed into what his his profile and skill set are. He's a big guy, he has good reactions, so he can move. He can come and help you as a help defender. At the last second at the rim.
I think that's where he gets a decent number of his block shots is as a help defender. He does a good job of of squaring up and and making himself big and make his his guy shoot shoot over him.
Uh.
And then he's he's got very good hands around the rim, so he secures the ball uh pretty well. You know. The other night in Cleveland, I think he had was an eight offensive rebounds he had and h and last night I think he had three or four. And you know, he's you know, he's doing what what you you want
a big guy to do. You everybody wants wants players to be something that maybe they're not capable of being, because they project everybody to be uh, you know, Kareem or to be Shack or whoever it is, you know, but they if if he just does the stuff he's capable of doing and stays in that lane, then he can be a good contributor to what they're trying to build as a group, which you know, there there are
ways away from that. But he's a good young piece who looks like, you know, at only twenty two years old, that he's he's going to have a good future as a foundational piece, at least on the defensive end.
And he's working at the other side too. We saw him in practice. He's got to getting close and stuff like that. He's on a great shut.
We'll catch a quick break, but coming up next we'll do more. Frank Laydon live on site. Richard Smith live on site. Coming up next, Frank Laydon, once upon a time was in a building process to build a team that eventually became came very good. And that's what the Jazz are trying to do. So I want to talk about that. But we're live today at Tim Dolly Nissan Southtown. It's one one one five to five South Jordan Gateway.
If you've ever wanted to meet the legend himself, frank Leyden, I'm sure he'll take pictures with you, shake hands and say hello, and of course Smitty in addition to that, So more coming up with Franken Smitty live on site on ESPN seven hundred.
The end is.
So I think.
The final coursain my friend.
You shake his hand though, I'll say it all right. Frank Laydon is live on site, as is Richard Smith, which we are live today at Tim Dolly Nissan Southtown. That was Frank Sinatra and frank leyden Rolling In singing a little bit of a duet. So Frank is saying hello to a listener. And of course if you want to meet Frank, you would love to take a picture
with you and say hello, Smiddy. How often does this happen when you're out of battlet coach movies, people come up and say hello and want to shake his hand.
Well, we're just you know, we're we're fortunate to be able to to be able to go out and do things from time to time with him, but we always have to build in, you know, an extra fifteen minutes to get from point A to point B, because it's stop, then you start, and then it's five feet and then you stop, and then it's starting, you know, which, which we're very uh, we're very honored and humbled to be to be to be in that position that the people gravitate to uh, to coach in such a way that
that that they cherish him and then what he's brought, what he means to this community.
So how does it make you for your coach when people come up and thank you for what you build, because you really did build something that fifty years later is still bringing people out of joy.
I think that it's overrated. I don't think, I assure, I mean I think. I think that I got a lot more out of it than the people did than I gave. I attempted to do the right things, and I hope we reached the people we were trying to reach. I never thought about trying to save communities or that the community should be saved by professional sports or something like that.
But let's take, for instance, where we're sitting right now, the Dali name. Did they earn that? You sure did? They did it.
Through years of a couple of different businesses. I mean, the clothing is, the car business or what have you. So what happens is comes trust with that and long time people saying over a long time, I believe in those people. They were interested in the community and what they do, for instance, putting on broadcasts like this.
You know.
So I think we all should look at our minds as when I get up in the morning, I say, am I going to make this a better place than when I had it was before I got up? And everybody I seek, and you know, I say this because even the players when we meet We used to shake hands and say.
What can I do for you today? What can I do for help you? You know, when there were little things.
We started girls women's clubs out of our our wives of the players who kind of felt like they were left home, the players getting all the publicity and what have your.
You know, we started.
I was talking with the Reverend Franz Davis the other day and now he was in the beginning when we started chapel service things like that.
You.
Pat Williams actually thought I was trying to take advantage. He says, he's.
Trying to soften us up, that Christian stuff, you know, And I said, wow, but you know, it's it's it's the way it is. I think we do. You go out every day and you do the best you can and if that works out, that's fine. I thought it was interesting. Vince somebody who I knew. I had had lunch with him a couple of times. I was very fortunate to have friends that knew him, And when he was in Washington, I got a chance to see Hm a couple of times.
I was with Niagara.
I thought about my own coach, Top Scalager was a great college coach.
I thought about the people who said.
To me, you know, if you want to be successful, make sure that you're the guy that signs the checks as well as makes the other decisions, because when things are going to go south, you're gonna have problems. So I said, for instance, he said, well you take fence somebody. He was in total charge, red outback, in total charge. He coached the team, he was the general managers. And I thought that when we came here, Whitey hers Ouk, all the fame people who had total control.
And you you coach. Well, we're both hats.
Yes, yes, I tried. But you know, I think the big thing is that you then have a chance. Otherwise, when heat comes down, people don't like to hear it, to hear it from their neighbors or.
What have you. You know, do this do that? You know, do they want to do crazy things?
You know?
Uh?
Yeah, if we, if we, you know, I always say it was a funny thing. One thing that other car deal. Larry Miller, who's a great guy and and you know, do a lot of good things. He would he would come up with great ideas like, uh, you know, get the get the guy.
From the next who's the big center of the next of us. Yeah, he said, well, I think we've got We've got Patrick Ewing. We'd have a heck of a team.
I said, I think it right now, Let's get somebody on the phone and see what we can. We can trade the Mormon Tablenacle choir for Patrick Ewing. Yeah, I think Johnny Wooden's had the best. What you do is you you have a job to do. You set goals, you have a lesson plan. You get the best players you possibly can, because nobody.
Can win with bad players.
You be brown, might make them a little better, you know, or something, but but no one's gonna win the championship with them. And then you know, you say, let's let's go about it, and it's your plan. You're the General Eisenhower, you're the general. MacArthur says, this is the player, this is the one that we'll attack with. But I know this,
there are certain consist consistencies. When you guys were talking, wasn't it funny the three of us or we were talking to this gentleman that came over here said twenty three point shots.
We're always talking about offense, but you.
Know, we know that that stability comes a defense. It's more consistent, you know. So I think you have to think in terms of building a team around a good defensive plan. You know, the points will come, but we have to start by keeping our players on the floor, having them do certain jobs.
You know, people think of John Drew is a great player.
We forget he's a great offensive rebounder, not a good one, a great one.
You know.
He just went after the ball, you know, and we've always been fortunate to have players that could defend good you know, Mark Eaton. He wasn't a great offensive player. Obviously, that was probably awful because we didn't give enough chance to get shots. But but he had a specific job and he did it well. He did it with the with the He was proud of himself, and eventually he got Defensive Player.
Of the Year a couple of times. You know.
Ricky Green, fastest of them all, could get it to where we had to start our offense.
He won a seconds on the shot clock.
You know, he could defend a little bit too. And Nichols later it was John Stockton. And who told me how great John Stockton was? Oh, I heard from a doctor, I mean from the coach of John Jack Gardner and Ladell and s they all told me how good he was, but coffee. They also said how good John Stockton was. But you know, it was the guy that told me he was really good. I don't think I have you told you this, but he the guy who told me
he was really good. We were scribatic the first night down at the at the Dixie College, all right, and and Ricky being came off the floor and he said, oh, coach, you picked a good And then.
Oh wow, yes Ricky himself, yes, and John was backing Ricky up.
Coach, coach that was in That's funny you mention that, because I just gave coach a book today that I found the bookstore called The Basketball one hundred And it's a new book that just came out by David Aldridge and and and John Hollinger, and it ranks, you know, to this day. Anyway, it just came out a little while ago, the top one hundred players in basketball history, and and coaches in there quoted several times. But that that that anecdote coaches and the coaches just to look
at it. Yes, it's ironic that you mentioned that because that that that little quip is in the book and where they say you know, Ricky Green to talking about John Stockton, who was in this book was ranked the number thirty three all time player, and he says, yeah, Ricky Green came off, said to Frank La and they and you got a really good one here, coach.
And yeah, and which is you know, who's to know better?
He was the all star point and so you know, you go run.
And you look.
And sometimes X players who play may have two great thoughts of what a player should be. It's very hard for him to understanding, say Ted Williams couldn't couldn't coach and stuff because his expectations were too great of the people he coached, you know, because he was the greatest of all. So I think you gotta have a plan. You live at the plan, and it doesn't work, you get a job.
Yeah, yeah, And I want to go ahead, Spence.
I want to interject just a minute, because coach mentioned Hubie Brown. That's how how coach Laydon got got into the NBA. And and few people around here probably know the connection between coach Leyden and Hube Brown, who's going to do his last and final broadcast coming up in February. And coach, why don't you to take him out and share with our listeners about your recent conversation with Hube.
Well, you he's had some tough lucky he lost a daughter and a son and a wife in two year period and so it was very rough, you know. And he is a guy who you know, he really believed himself.
By the way, it's a good great baseball player. Bet a baseball player.
He was basketball the catcher, yes, and he also was an excellent basketball coach. In a great memory, tenacious attitude, you know, worked hard, had good observation. He could look at things and quickly make a decision whether this was good or bad or what have you. And he loved to talk sports. And I met him when we were going to Niagara together. We met the train going up to Niagra first time the first day of school, and then we roomed together for three or four years.
Out of four years played baseball and basketball.
And then we went on. He went to coach in high school. I did too a few years. Then he went to William and Mary, then to Duke, and then from Duke, I guess to the probably went to Louisville Colonels and won the championship at the ABA, and then from there to the to the big leagues, uh, the NBA with the Latin Hawks, and and I went from high school to small college and eventually.
Back to Niagara or Alba Mata.
And he told me one time it was my last game was against Kentucky in the Garden and the n I t the first round and and he said, hey, I want to see you after the game. So we went out to dinner course and he said, hey, why don't you come over me with the Hawks, he got the cold weather of night falls. He said, pro basketball is gonna burst in the next few years. With the
television contracts and everything else. He said, it's gonna get He said, they're gonna they're gonna get this thing done because of Larry O'Brien joined the mv n b A.
He said, they're going to sew up this ABA. They're going to take the best cities.
And he says it's gonna wear, the money's going to be, the officiating's better, everything even.
On and on. And so I joined him. And that was it.
And your owner in Atlanta was the great Ted Turner and right right on the right under the cusp of the burgeon and cable TV.
Well, he was one thing. Ted Turner said, television will only survive if we have some x number of live television. And what can I get in live television? We can get some news sources. So he started T n T and the news CNN, and then the and then of course he said baseball. He owned the baseball team, in the basketball team and the hockey team all at the same time, you know, and it was live.
Yeah, he said, I can.
Sell it and still to this day live TV rights.
Yeah.
Or what generated the book of the revenue, that's right.
And you know his father he was rich. He's a rich kid, be rich, but not dumb. He went to Brown he was an ivy leaguer, but he his his If you ever see billboards lit up and stuff, that was as father as invention and started years and years ago outdoor salespeople.
Interesting, Yeah, that's where the money came from.
Let me, let's see we've got we still got about you know, good fifteen minutes or so.
They just starting to rush the building.
Yeah, we still have a little bit of time. Because what I wanted to do today when I found out you were going to be kind enough to join us on site, is talk about what it's like to build a championship contending level team because you did it once upon a time, and the Jazz are trying to do it now. They're in the very early stages. And as you, Frank and Scott, you know, your son and well, you know, as you started adding pieces to build the team that
ultimately ended up competing for championships. What's that process?
It starts, It starts with support the top. Yeah, you know, I don't know.
You know, what is wealth? I'm not sure, you know. I think the people that own the Jazz are very wealthy, very wealthy. Are they as wealthy as the people that own the Necks the Lakers? I don't know, but they seem to be a well. To compete, all right, you've got to have support from the top, right, the authority
always begins above. The principal protects the teachers. You know what happened in the schools uh and and coaching and college that you know, you get the president and the athletic directors and the coaches, and you've got to have that support. Once you have that support, then you've got to be able to hire good assistance. You've got to You've got to surround us if you've got.
To have a good working area. All right.
Now, if we're thinking here just in the time, we have a little bit of time. We seemed very solid own this ship.
So far. I haven't heard that.
They're backed out of doing anything that that is going to financially. Now, maybe maybe I don't know what happened when they the guy that went to Cleveland and uh uh uh you know Mitchell, Albert Mitchell, whatever. Maybe the demands are too great. One thing you don't want the agents to be you're running your organization. All right, Well,
I think you set down the plane now. You know, here, if I look at this name, they look like they have an ownership that's wanting to move ahead and spend some money.
Uh. He seems to.
Very very active. Played buy a hockey team. They're going to revent the building. The building is going to be better. And then you see they get Danny Ainge involved. Danny Aingel is though, you know, a guy that just fell off the tournament truck. He's a veteran, he's a tough guy. He knows the game all right, he knows what they expect to be a champion. And then they they seem to have some good young players.
Uh.
And so I'm assuming if the if the two hundred, how many coaches they have not.
Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's one hundred and ninety seven or something. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know. I might have had trouble with that. I had trouble, you know, just just control, controlling Akkadian, Michael and Statia. That's not happening having all those things. But someone said, we're bringing in a shooting coach. I said, I'm the shooting coach. I don't know more about shooting anybody else in the world. So anyway, you know, I think that I think they were after the right start.
Patients is tough, competition is stuff, all right? And uh and there's a lot to be they said, and here this community has grown since when we came here. I was worried that we didn't have the population.
We didn't have.
We had a very poor arena, the original Salt Palace, you know, and then your dad did a lot to do that, I mean, getting getting Larry Larry Miller and eventually getting the getting the the Delta Center and stuff like that, and then finding Larry Miller and what have you. But uh, yeah, I think they were on the right track. I I don't know if there's anything I do different. I I like the coach, and I think the players like him, and I think he's.
He's young, He's going to learn.
I hope, I hope this thing doesn't burn him out, you know, too soon. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but as long as he hangs in there and he believes in himself and he believes in what he's doing, which I can, and just I don't know enough about it. I haven't been to practice right right well what their goals are, but I think they put they put a team that's words watching and go to the game and see them play. I seem to enjoy it, you know, So I think they're all.
Good Stort Smitty. At what point, you know, because I'm referencing the team that Frank built, and you know, of course Scott and everyone involved with player personnel decisions, there were some really good signs early, you know. I think it was eighty four when Frank won Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year, and there was a playoff team, and you know, obviously drafting really well with
Thurrell and Mark and John and Carl. But at what point from your vantage point did they start to really come together where he said, okay, no, we can really play with anybody. Anybody now.
Well, I remember when when during the Karl Malone draft, and that was in eighty five and up to then, you know when when the team had moved to Salt Lake, Uh, Uh, coach had had in succession that drafted Darryl Griffith, Thorough Bailey, Mark Eaton, Bobby Hanson, John Stockton, and then uh and then.
Carl Malan's quite a streak.
Yeah. And I remember when, uh, during the press conference after the draft, local reporters asking coach about you know, hey, Carl Malone, you know can do this and this, and he's a good offensive player and he can score and whatever. Do you want him to come in and be a score And I remember coach saying, well, you know, I don't know about scoring. He said, we you know, we we we have enough scoring. We have Adrian Dantley, we have uh, Darryl Griffith, we have John Drew coming off
the bench as a sixth man. We have Ricky Green who can score some. We have a developing center, shot blocker,
Rim Protector and Mark Eaton. But we're I think it was coach at that time, maybe third third from the bottom of the NBA coming off that season and rebounding, and I remember Coach saying, you know, we're hoping Carl Malone could come in as a big body defender in the low post, maybe get some rebounds for us, and if he scores eight or ten points a game, then that'll be a bonus, you know, and then the thirty
six thousand points later, you know. But but the point being that that the Jazz at that time in the eighties, under Coach Layden's direction as both the head coach and the general manager, you know, built it blocked by block and filled the certain spots you needed to fill as you went along. You know. John Stockton, of course, as Coach has said a lot of times in the past, you know, drafted him with the idea that, oh, we
think he can be a solid backup. So that's another piece of the puzzle, you know, to Ricky Green or trading to Portland.
Yeah, did they want John, Yeah they did, interesting.
Yeah, Yeah, they tried to They tried to trade up.
Yeah, I tried to ride up.
Yeah, you have to get him and then, you know, But then, but the point being those building blocks, and you have to, as coach said, you have to have the patience to do that. We just saw, unfortunately, that we've heard during this last hour that the secondment of Kings have parted ways with head coach Mike Brown, who they just hired three years ago, who was the coach of the year two years ago, who they gave an extension to five months ago. And now they get a
little bump in the road, a little glitch. They've lost five in a row, six total in a row at home, and so the Natives got a little bit restless there or whatever happened. I don't know if it's the front office, the ownership, whatever, but here we are thirty one games into the season. They're thirteen and eighteen. They were supposed to be one of the contenders in the Western Conference this year, and so they go ahead and fired the
head coach. And so to coach this point, you have to have some plan, But then you have to feel confident, as we've talked about before, Spence, confidence in what you believe your plan is, and then having the fortitude to see through that even when you get to those bumps in.
The road and the stick with your decision. Make Yeah, don't forget.
Why did John drop the word you get picked? Where johnn get sixteen sixteen? Why was he picked maybe the best point in guard in history?
Where to calm along?
They picked thirteen?
Yeah?
What I said that he was falling, he said the Scott at the time. He says, we got to take the mailman. I said, I think so too. But as he got aids and we're the only ones that don't know it, I mean, what's wrong here? What do you know? But but we struggled our guns. Those are the guys we wanted. Those are the guys we took, you know. And later on picking up what's the name from Phoenix? Uh, Jeff Jeff one of the second stuff. And of course we lost Scurry's kid, Scurry's father, yep, not.
Scurry, Dell Curry KURRK Curry's expansion.
Draft, the expension draft.
So you know, we were fortunate, but we always had good guys coming off the bench of big guys.
You forget. We re brought Rich Kelly back, that's right.
We had you know, Bill what's name from Saint Johns? Billy, Paul, Paul's you know, yep, going out.
So yeah, you know, we were talking before about the Mike Brown news. I'm going to read you the last ten Coach of the Year winners. Mike Budenholdzer Atlanta obviously not there. Steve Kerr Golden State's still there. Mike D'Antoni Houston, obviously not there. Dwayne Casey Toronto lost his job two years later. Mike Budenholzer Milwaukee, also not there. Nick Nurse Toronto not there by his choice to go to Philly, Tom Thibodeau, New York, still there, Matty Williams Phoenix, not there,
Mike Brown Sacramento not there. I mean, that's six of the past ten Coaches of the Year that didn't stay with the teams where they won the award. It's pretty wild, this profession at this point.
Well again, it just speaks to you know, the whether your your your top level people, again, whether it's the ownership, whether it's your front office staff, the people who run personnel. However your organization is structured. Whoever has the loudest voice or the biggest hammer, you know, do they have the conviction of what they're trying to lay out and get done, to see it through, or do they get way laid at the at the slightest point of resistance of something
that going the way you wanted to. You know, with Sacramento, again, don't know their situation there. I just know that there are a lot of expectations for them this year uh to be a heavyweight in the Western Conference. They stumbled out of the block the first thirty games, and somebody made the decision while this isn't working, so we're cutting ties with the guy who you know, this summer we were celebrating as our longtime coach by giving him an extension.
And whatever has happened the last couple of months that's changed that. Whether it's just the record or the disappointment in that or what what have you. But but the coach's point, you know, you you have to have an idea of what it's going to take. You have to have a plan that everybody in the group agrees to and believes make sense, and then you have to have that conviction to be able to see it through. You know,
even when you have tough times. You know, as a Jazz are experiencing now third worst record in the league, you know, the worst defense in the league, playing a lot of young guys who make a lot of mistakes. Last night, I'm watching the game and Isaiah Collier has the ball up at the top and has an easy pass or to cutting and marking on the baseline. He throws a five feet over his head, you know, up into the stands literally and you're going, what are we doing?
And you know, but but they're willing to if they're willing to, uh play through those mistakes and understand that they're trying to get their players better and they believe that some of those guys will be long term guys. Uh. If they can stick with that, then then you'll start to seek it. You have to have enough of a sample size spence to be able to feel confident that this is working out or it's not going the way we thought. So now we have to go to Plan B.
Yeah, and you have to tell tell, tell the fans that too has to be you know, there's certainly a time and when the fans are let this is our goal, this is what we're trying to do.
But when when we hit it, we're going to be very very good. Yeah.
Yeah, Frank, before I said, you loose. Since you and I last spoke, the Jazz released their fifty year anniversary documentary. Uh, and you were heavily featured in that. We We we spoke to you, Healy, well played, sir. We talked to you right after you recorded the interview. Uh, and you went down to the premiere. But I haven't spoken to you since it's since it was released. I love the old stuff for me, I mean, it brought back a
lot of memories. What was that like for you? To kind of reminisce a little bit?
It's important because you know when I came with the Jets, that's what we didn't have. We didn't have a future. We didn't never passed right, right right, and so you know, and what we accomplished I was proud of. We didn't win a championship, but we came close. And I think we lost one year to the to the Lakers in seven games eighty eight. That might have been the greatest team in history that we lost it. Yeah, you know, and then of course they the Chicago teams and every
day Michael Jordans. Those are exciting times that we were right in the middle of it. And I grew up in Brooklyn with the Dodgers. Our cry was wait till next year and fined nineteen fifty five us something.
We finally won the World series.
But there's nothing wrong with being close and as long as you played tight and you run us with the people.
And you give them an effort, you know.
But if you're fooling them and you're trying to fool them and consistently letting them down, and no, it's no good. I don't I don't think that the Scoop has done that. I think and I think our coach is going to be all right. He's learning odda, he's right, but I think he but I think he's a good man and he seems to be honest and uh, he's got.
To work out. He's he's he's taking harder than anybody. I guarantee you, yeah, I'm sure.
Well, thank you guys.
Before we say coach, I just just want to say, let her listeners no spense and and uh for coach. Uh. We're a week away from somebody's ninety third birthday.
Wow, okay, George Washington.
So we we wish Coach laid in a very early happy birthday along with happy New Year. And thank you, thank you for coming on the show. We appreciate your time and all all your all your wisdom and everything.
Well, thank you for asking me.
Yeah, you're welcome anytime, for sure. Frank, it's great to see you. Yes, Happy New Year and we'll do it against you.
That's my best of your family and friends and and to to the dollies and you know, hanging there for sure.
Appreciate it. All right, we've got two hours down, two hours to go, Tony Jones and Noah Eagle, that's your four o'clock hours, so keep it here on ESPN seven hundred