I know fall is about football for a lot of you, and certainly it is for us, but it's also about football or soccer, whatever you want to call it.
I'm not judging.
Playoff soccer in MLS is dramatic, it is intense, and it continues on Saturday after a rough one on Tuesday. Our next guest, the head coach of RSL good enough to take some time during a game week, Pablo Masch Johnny on a Thursday Pop's Happy Thursday.
Man, how are you doing? I appreciate the time.
So when we had you on last and I'm only speaking for myself here, I said from my soccer pee brain, it felt like Minnesota is scared to play with you and they just want to sit back and try to counter a little bit, and that's what they did. And it just feels like getting a goal in that scenario is really really tough, because getting a goal period is.
Really really tough.
As you look back and as you've studied the film, what would you point out today that stood in the way from you, you guys finding just one solution in order to get that win?
Yeah? No, I think you know, Minnesota has been a really good defensive team and the commitment they put towards you know, playing behind the ball and the commitment they get from eleven makes it extremely difficult. And when we create, you know, we you know, in soccer, there's a there's a static called big chances. And in that game at the weekend, we created three big chances. And essentially it's it's you and the goalkeeper and you and and and
we didn't finish those three chances. So it's not the volume of chances you're going to create about them but against them, but it is the quality of the chance that you're going to create and then just finishing. And so you know, what I said postgame was like making a play, and to be fair, their goalkeeper made a play on three of our big chances. And so it's it's just and And the key to that is if you score a goal, their whole plan is kind of thrown out the window and now they have to open
themselves up and now they have to extend themselves. And we've done really really well against teams that that open up or press, and what we've struggled is is really being intricating our play in tight spaces and and so, uh, you know, looking back there's a couple of things that that we're gonna that we're going to do with possession deeper in uh in in our build to hopefully, you know, create some space between the lines to then be able to exploit those spaces with pace, because again, if if
you expl if you break lines and you penetrate their midfield line, but then you take your first touch backwards, you allow the rest of their team to get back, and what they are is committed to get back. And so it's not about, you know, the amount of chances that that you create as much as it is taking advantage of the good chances that you create on goal, and and and and and again. For us, it's going to be scoring the first goal. And and that's what
we've been working towards. While it's not obviously giving up the defensive side because the the obviously the feeling is that we have to go score the goal. But if you concede again these guys, now you have to score two, and then that's not the game that we want to play.
So again you'll have to forgive my ignorance.
The only time I've seen Minnesota is when you've played them, and it does feel like from my recollection.
They do play the same regardless of venue.
Are you anticipating that same style in their plays coming up on Saturday?
Yeah? You know their coach Mitt interest in common after the game and one of our best chances came when they came out to press us and we broke through their whole team and created a good chance on goal, and he made a reference to you know, we're at our worst when we're opened up. And so for me, just that common alone after that game speaks volumes to what they're going to do. You know that they feel like, well, if we take it the cour only six, wee feel
good about our chances. We have a game to play with. It's the onus is on a Salt Lake to come out and make the game. And what they're really good at, because they've been playing this way for quite some time,
is the counter attack. And so the expectation for us is that that they're going to play the same play the same way way for their moments and if they don't, you know, I think it's we have an advantage where we feel really comfortable with teams exposing themselves, bringing players forward, and then us being being able to break lines and create more quality opportunities on goal.
Okay, so let's let's dig into some lineup decisions here because and again this is just me asking, pontificating aloud and wondering kind of what the motivation was. So we had Matt on, we had Matt Crooks on a couple of days ago, and I asked Matt straight up, like, where do you think do Ogo fits on on on the lineup slide? You know, where's he best served? He says, he's probably best served as a ten, just like I am.
You know, we're both kind of central players, and you've been good to kind of help us understand the connecting ability of Matt Crooks throughout the course of the season because the stats aren't there, but then you look at the miles ran and you know the work rate is certainly there. So let's start with the decision to go with Matt central and bring Diogo off the bench.
Yeah, I think for me, and this is the same conversation that with Diogo, it's it's you know, I think Diego is still trying to, you know, figure out a lot of things about the league, a lot of things with our team, and he actually came to the team when we're going through a really rough time, and so my conversation with Diogo is the same as I'll explain you now, is it's just understanding the role on both sides of the ball really clearly. And I think that's
where Matt has an edge. And for me going, you know, with a guy that has ten months of experience playing with the screw, going through some good times, going through some tough times, it's just the familiarity that that that I have with Crooks in that position, and then you can look at other positions and go, okay, so then
how can we adjust it? But with Crooks it's been he is the glue to our team and like you really pointed out, you're not going to see it in the stats, but the way he's been linking with Andreas and the way he's been Lincoln with Dom who who you know he played into, you know, create one of our best chances of the game against Minnesota is is
too important to leave him off the fields. And then the other part with Crooks against the team like Minnesota who play for set pieces and they're huge, is also that that what he brings on set pieces from just an aerial ability and so those are some of the decisions you know that went in, you know, when I'm explaining things to Diogo as to why I'm going with Matt Crooks. And the other part of that is is Diego has had his best moments for us when he's
come into games. So the game against the Austin and the game against Portland, those are two games that he scored in and he's coming into the game when the game is a bit tired, there's a little bit more space, and he's got an eye for goal, and so always having that in your back pocket is just as important as picking the starting team is who are the guys that are going to come in if the if the game state is such, and so those are the conversations I had with you know, with those guys.
Okay, okay, now you elected to uh, you know later on the game, bring on Diogo and uh you you decided to take off Diego Luna. Now for my money, Pablo Diego. Then this is just me, you know, kind of witnessing and watching. I feel like Diego might be in the best form of any of the attacking players right now. So take us, okay, so take us through that decision. Why you ended up to tall, you know, bringing in Diego in place of Diego Luna.
Yeah, because Diego Luna was cramping. Oh okay, and yeah, So again these are really good questions because again, if you just look at it from peripheral, you'll have no idea as as to all the different variables that go into making these decisions. So Diego was cramping, he'd been he's had a cold for a couple of days. And and again, when you're in the playoffs, it's not like we can we can wait and see if you can
get through it. It's more about how do we how do we keep the same level of intensity on both sides of the ball. And so diegle the decision with Diego Luna was nothing more than he was cramping and just wanted to make sure that we had legs to finish up the game the right way.
Now I got to follow up how's he feeling? Obviously, if it's only cramps, that's plenty of time to recover for Saturday.
Yeah. So again, I think the cramping piece comes from probably taking the meds. Right, So if you're sick and you got the sniffles, and you're taking things that are that are going to, you know, stop you up from doing that. Naturally, you're you're taking water out of the system and it's not functioning the right way.
You know.
Talked him this morning and he says he feels great. So that's a real positive heading into the weekends.
So Julio Anderson comes in for Crooks for Maddie, and honestly, when I saw Anderson warming up, I thought you were going to take Chico off because he just continues to struggle to fire and look, he spoiled us.
I want to be very clear, like this is his fault.
The reason we're all mad is because he spoiled us. He shouldn't have had the start of the season that he had.
So they're exactly right. Expectations are what leads to disappointment.
Hope kills us all. I know you've never seen Ted last so, but I did, and that was that was the line there. So Julio for Crooks instead of chi Cho to take us through that.
Yeah, No, I think it's the same thing. I'm hanging on, the same thing I think everyone is is if there's one guy that can create a moment of brilliance out of nowhere, it's it's chi Cho. And he doesn't need to be necessarily you know, like earlier in the season that he might have had games where he wasn't necessarily
playing the best. But in the right moment, if there's anyone on this team that you want on the ball, you know, whether it's at midfield or thirty yards out or a free kick, I'm hanging on the same hope as everyone else is like when is this you know, curse going to be taken? You know, when is he going to step into the limelight. And so that was
the thought behind that. And then obviously what we realized again with Andal going up there out there and exposing some of their deficiencies in the back line is we need to move to the back line a lot more than we did, and the only way to do that is to play behind the line, in other words, looking for balls to get him behind, and that's not Techo's strength. And just thought that teachers are very good pass of the ball, and with Ando running what we'll create some chances.
And then the game did open up a little bit there in the second half, but we want to be more consistent with that heading into this next game.
So certainly I would never tell you how to do your job. I will say this. I mean, obviously, if you ever want to come in and do four hours of radio, I'll go run training, Pablo.
We can we can do a straight what do they call that? Like for like in soccer.
But it yeah, it felt like when you brought brodyon and pushed a Mecca back to a centralized midfield role, the team looked a little bit different. And look, he's so good, you can move him around. But I mean it's due or die of time, right, So I would imagine moving forward, you like him Meccha centralizing the midfield.
Yeah, yeah, And again that's a byproduct of losing Bear for three games, right. Just to be fair to Gervane, I thought he did a fantastic job filling in for Bara. But again, now from an attacking perspective, we don't have the left foot that can play balls into those areas, you know, from a more comfortable position. And so yeah, you know, again, coaching is and oftentimes it's not from a place of ideal, it's from a place of needs.
And in that particular case, a Mecca, we had a Mecha out there to start because of how robust and how quick they are on the counter and making sure that we solidify that. But obviously, when a Mecca went into the middle of the field, you know, the game changed and we were able to penetrate centrally with him driving, with him picking up second balls, and so our team is completely different with a Mecca in the middle of the field.
So now over to the most unfair media question of all time, because your penalty kick situation before has worked very well, and Justin Glad is the one that scored the game winning penalty against Seattle. But you know the deal, when it doesn't work, you've got to talk about it. And I've heard from you know, we've had players on the show and then Donny on the broadcast. Now I believe you yourself, Pablo have talked about you know, not wanting to have your Okay, here's my five, then here's my
next five, and having it scripted. Correct, So how do you approach that situation? Kind of explain that to our listeners.
Yeah, no, I again, we did things different spend so I went to get to my intuition, which is did
not have it scripted. And you know, obviously Chi sho Gegoer got Anderson, and you know, we had two other guys that were going to take one in front of Justin Glad, Alex Catranis and Dominic, and both those guys said that they were cramping and they didn't feel comfortable taking it right, And so as a coach, and then then you go to the next one and you say, Jake Glad, you're ready to take one, and he said, yes, you know, And so we had our five picked out
and the mecho was going to always be fifth. But those are little situations again that you have to see. There's a real time. So even though it was scripted that we had Alex in there, then it's real time and it's like, yeah, I just don't feel comfortable with Mike growing. And then Dominic had a calf, and so then what we need shooters, right, we need someone to step up, and so you know, Jay Glad stepped up and unfortunately didn't didn't make his But but again, I
think it's all it's all collaborative. It's not it's not just you know, me going you're the five. It's it's we had a five. And then when when two guys kind of pull out and then you have to go to the next guy, and then oh, hey, it was six, and so yeah, but that's that's that's a part of it.
And you know, that's one of the things I've been talking to players about is don't confuse the performance with the result, right, especially when it comes to penalty gigs, because it's really about tapping in a ball from twelve yards out and and and for as easy as it is on Tuesday, you know, with twenty thousand people in the stadium and walking fifty yards to the ball, it's
it's a lonely place to be. And so if it's if you're not confident, if you don't believe, if you if you're not hitting the back of the net in your mind before you step up to the ball, that goal becomes a lot smaller and that that ball becomes a lot bigger. Right, So you know, we'll work on
those again tomorrow. But I think we've seen the last couple of weeks guys that we feel comfortable and not that we feel comfortable, that they feel comfortable stepping up and taking a piquet if it needs if we get to that point.
So let's get into some bright spots from my perspective, and then we'll talk about Saturday. Then I'll set you loose today, uh, Dominick Dominic, Mark Zuke. You know, the more and more I watch him, the more and more I feel like there's a lot to like. He created a couple of really really good chances. One to diego that I thought the Saint Claire kid was good. I mean, you got to tip your cap to their keeper, yep. But I thought Mark Zuke had a really bright match.
For you tell me what you saw from your vantage point.
Yeah, no, he continues to impress. You know again, I think a lot you know what you see on Saturday, But for me, it's even deeper. It's a young man that's coming across to a new country for the first time in his life, moving away from his family and all home, and learning how we want to play, learning what this league is all about. Then exhibiting his skill sets, and I think on offense, his ability to get forward and look for his teammates in dangerous areas has been
a real real bright spot. And then defensively, his graft to do all the work that and it's not it's not always easy in this league because it's very there's a lot of transition, but he seems to, you know, hold his own in that department as well, and so I think with time, you know, there's there's hopeful that he will be one of the best wingers in this league. And he's in with every game I see it play with more and more confidence and the ability to name
for himself in this league. And then you know in world football.
As well, several bright moments for Katronos are left back and you know, he's kind of landed and solidified that spot. And I know how much you trust him, but I thought he was another bride spot on Tuesday.
Give me, give me your thoughts on that.
Yeah, No, I think Katronto's uh, you know, he's a gamer, he's got he's got a great mindset, he competes the right way, he's he's he's good going forward, and I think more than anything else, the way he can impeded, you know, against Minnesota on Tuesday was fantastic and and I think that's what you know, it stifles their attack on the right side when when he's aggressive, when he's got the right mindset, when he's winning his duels, and
I think he did a great job of that. And so both on the right with you know, Dominic and on the left with with Katranis is it's critical for us to be able to maintain control of the game with and without the ball.
I was proud of Zach, you know, ultimately, like when he took that to take a shot at that speed in that weather, like he did right off his chest, I was like, well, Zach's dead. They're gonna have to you know, like I that looked. I mean, if you've ever been hit with a soccer ball, it is it's not awesome, and I'm sure it's happened to you several times. But I thought he stepped up in a way that silenced a lot of people that have just been crushing him all year.
So little kudos to your keeper on a on a Thursday.
Yeah, yeah, no, I thought I thought it was a fantastic performance, you know, And I think, you know, is really interesting because again the obviously when you don't score goals, there's not a lot of cheers on the on the offensive side, but the amount of cheers coming from from that side of the stadium every time he made a
save was was really profound. And and and again it it it It gives the guys the boost that they need, right because because again game of soccer is hard to score goals and when you're keeper standing on his head back there, and he's basically saying with his performance, we got this guy's you know, and it instills belief in the group and and it's not easy and and and oftentimes, you know, we talk about, you know, given players confidence, and what I think this is a really important point
with like with with all players in all sports, is the coach gives you confidence by putting you on the field, and you give the coach and the rest of the team confidence by your performance. And so, you know, when Zach was inserted back in the lineup, it wasn't like we had this pow wow and like hey, Kumbai, everything's great. It's go out there and show everyone right, go out there and prove that you belong out here. And and so that's you know, behind all the you know, the
so says that he made at the weekend. I'm just proud of the responsibility he took and the confidence that he that he that was derived from inside to show what he's capable of doing when everyone else thought he was he was you know, that that he shouldn't be there. And so I think every every game, every training session is an opportunity for players to bring confidence to themselves by the way they apply the work and training, by the way they apply the work in games. And and
now we have a really confident goalkeeper. We're you know, five six weeks ago, you know, you and I were on the phone talking about who's the number one and who's who's performing great, and now it's it's clear that zach Is is a guy that's ready for the moment.
Jay Glad and Oheeda I have been two of your best players all year and one snapshot p came moment will not define their contributions.
Did you do you say.
Anything the guys in that moment or do you just kind of let it, let it die and move on and focus on the.
Next Yeah, no, I think again, I don't focus in on that part of it. And like I said earlier, you know, I talked about the performance, and we performed well enough to win that game, and we just got to be sharper and and hope on the day that
their goalkeeper isn't as sharp as he was. Right, So it's a combination of everything, and so it is to make sure that you know the PK shootout isn't a reflection of the way we've performed, and we got to go out and improve our performance, right, but without allowing the motions of the PK get involved to where it starts to detract from their ability to play in the
ninety minutes. And so the focuses, you know, in the last couple of days has been we've got to we've got to win this game in the ninety minutes and being well balanced on defense as well as being sharp on offense. I think we can get to that point.
And so it's it's listen, there's no lonelier place to be than shooting a PK missing and then walking back and so how quickly you know, we can take the attention off that and focus on getting back to work and improving the ninety and it's is critical, I think, to the team and in particular those two players' mindsets.
So you're going to luck out a little bit with weather.
On Saturday, Saint Paul's about fifty nine degrees and no rain, and it's going to rain for three days after that. So that's good because with good weather, which means you guys can maybe express yourselves in an attacking way a little bit differently. Let's start with what getting Brian back does for you and kind of where he's at mentally after he is he's taken a lot of heat and he deserves it. He knows it, you know, obviously you
and I have talked about it. But where is his head at and what does his re entry into the lineup being for you guys on Saturday.
Yeah, I think it's a it's a it's a it's a great opportunity for him and a great moment for us to go back and having you know, Jervain on the right and Bear on the left, and obviously his will you know, he'll pick off of Javaine left off with his with his you know, aggressiveness, his ability to to win one d one duels, and that's that's a
strength of theirs. But the other part of era expect so against a team that's really stingy defensively, is utilizing him on set pieces and and and letting that left foot go a little bit more and he brings that that, you know, that advantage to to our group from from a set piece perspective. So the other part is, you know, his ability to play a left footed ball into a channel that kind of curls into the forward versus a right footed player that's more times than not the ball
starts running towards the sideline from that position. So I think on you know, all sides, on both sides of the ball and all phases of the game, vera, you know, makes their team a much more competitive group. And then obviously putting Javine on the right allows players to play positions that they're comfortable in.
All right, last thing that I'll set you loose.
After studying the tape and as you pointed out earlier in the interview, understanding that Minnesota is going to play the very same way, have you been able to u you know, with your staff either look at different attacking options in the lineup or looking at different attacking tactics to try to because I think if you can just get one, I think it would change the entire scope.
Then they'll have to engage you.
And if they engage you, I have confidence you guys can outplay them. So how do you find that first solution? I guess is it much easier way of asking it?
Yeah? No, I think that's a great question, and I'd say both so we've identified both, right, Because obviously with a change of tactics and not changing the tactics, but adding wrinkles within the tactics, you're going to rely on players' natural abilities, right, and so so in order to throw a wrinkle in the in our attacking scheme, we're going to also tweak it with with personnel that is more likely to perform those actions than asking somebody to
do something that they're not comfortable doing, right. And so the biggest thing for me is when we break lines, in other words, where we eliminate three or four of their defensive players, especially you know, they have a tight group of five upfront, and when we eliminate these guys with a pass is to make sure that we're attacking their back five and and oftentimes I felt like in this last game, is we break a line to go forward, our first touch cub is back, which allows them to
get back into a shape which now they're in a five to four to one close to goal, and it's very hard to find spaces to to operate and to be you know, and to control the game in that in that phase as far as creating quality chances, and so for me, it's it's really about breaking lines and being very aggressive with our attack and and and you know, disorganizing their back line as opposed to letting them get
back into the shape. And so that's going to take a uh, you know, a wrinkle in tactics and and and a change in personnel in order to hopefully achieve what we want, knowing that we have great players to come into the game and make the difference when it opens up.
Well, look, man, I have cleared my calendar.
On Saturday, November the eighth, at seven o'clock pm back here in our market. I'm told tickets are selling fast. So you've got an army back here cheering you on up there, go get it done.
Okay, let's go s France.
Appreciate it, buddy, all right, Pablo Master Johny Head, coach of RSL, one more shot to create a moment and find a solution Saturday