MON POD @SpenceChecketts on OKC vs IND, Jazz offseason, Austin Ainge, Smitty in-studio + more

Let's get it drivetime Monday afternoon. We are looking at about seven minutes past the hour or two o'clock.

Really hot weekend.

But it settled a little bit to start the week. It's about seventy six degrees and sunny. It's a beautiful day here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah, and as it is every single day, it's good to.

Have you along for the ride. Spence check.

It's behind the Mike, Porter Larsen beyond the glass today producing the program, booking the program. We have a lot to do on this Monday afternoon. When we said goodbye to you on Friday afternoon, we wondered if we'd be previewing a Game seven in the Eastern Conference playoffs tonight in New York at Madison Square Garden.

But ATMSG will be dark tonight.

I don't know.

Maybe they have a concert, no basketball as the Indiana Pacers got it done.

Man.

It's an impressive group led by their head coach Rick Carlisle, who's a Hall of Famer, and after taking Dallas to the championship in twenty eleven.

It was a really weird Mavericks.

Team, dark waste Dirk, but they were able to win a championship that not a lot of people saw it coming. And if you look at the odds for Indiana to be in the NBA Finals, it was twenty nine.

To one, twenty nine to.

One to start the playoffs. They started the season ten and fifteen, and now they're going to the finals and I think they're gonna get smoked. We'll talk about it as Okac has been waiting, So we'll get into NBA playoff basketball. We'll preview the NBA Finals. We'll also preview the Stanley Cup Finals. Can Edmonton be the first Canadian hockey club to win Lord Stanley's Cup in thirty two years.

Nobody saw this coming.

Austin Ainge has been hired as the Utah Jazz President of basketball Operations. Of course, Austin is Danny's son. Austin worked for Danny in Boston. He was hired to be the G League head coach, did some scouting, and he has spent a total of seventeen years working for the Celtics. Justin Zannik remains in his role as the general manager. Austin is going to address the media in aut an hour from right now. We're going to replay those comments for you coming up.

On the four o'clock hour.

So what does this mean for the front office structure.

We'll get into it a little bit.

You know, I've known Austin a long time I've known the Ange family a long time, so we'll.

Kind of get into this and what does this mean.

About the role of his dad and how will it work with he and Justin's antik day to day. So we'll get into that story on the program today. RSL just you know, maybe we should just start giving our guy ck credit because he seems to call these things pretty early.

He said, it feels like a last year.

Probably is the Galaxy had not won a game all year, and then RSL rolls in and they smoke them to nil. A bit of a break for the soccer club and badly needed because they're really bad. It's not even fun to watch right now. So do a little soccer on the show today too. Of course, of local interest, Major League Baseball is kind of moving into the consciousness now and Big.

Twelve meetings took place over.

The weekend in Orlando, so a lot of things to get to, including the potential expansion of not just the CFP, but how about the NCAA basketball tournament. Charlie Baker with some interesting comments in that direction. So we'll get to some offseason college football stuff. NFL shit time allowed, We've got a good college football guest on the show as well, So a lot to do on a Monday afternoon. Kyle

Me spence check it to all of you the great listeners.

Oh, Porter, I give you so much credit for your optimism on Friday when I asked you are we going to do?

You have sunglasses on in the studio?

What are you doing? It's bright in here. You have to have the shades.

Up, so I like natural light.

Do I have to remind you the Larry David Lyne on people to wear sunglasses inside. There are only two types of people to wear sunglasses in side? Porter her, can you say it on the radio? I think blind people an a hole. I can't say the whole thing, but you can say.

That I'm not blind. I am a little light sense that I have a lot of concussions. Okay, I get like a little shaky when I get like stressed out usually, but also with some lights sound sensitivity, so sometimes I maybe wear sunglasses.

Look at our YouTube channel, Porter looks like the lead singer from the Lumineers right now.

The Lumineers. Yeah, Wesley, you've got a lot of Joe Walsh.

I've never gotten Lumineers before.

He's got the long hair like you have, and he wears a song graud. But anyway, I applaud you for your optimism. When I asked you on Friday, will we be previewing the NBA Finals or Game seven? You said game seven? Yeah, didn't go didn't go our way? Didn't go our way?

It didn't, it didn't. It's a it's a bummer.

It's a bummer, but it gives Nicks fans like almost like a out of your misery moment, like a just move on. It's uh, it was, it was what was going to happen at some point, so stop putting it off. The old the old Yeller. We got old Yeller this weekend. But other than that, the weekend was fun.

Was that a reference to a dog being shot and put down? Is that what that was?

Yeah?

You taken edible this morning. You're good?

No, I'm great, all right? Old Yeah, old Yeller might not be the right reference.

I understand what you're saying because a little visual. We'll talk about it. Like, if you're a Nick fan, you have to view this year as a total win. Yeah, if for no other reason, you blocked Boston from winning another championship.

And Old Yeller had a great, awesome life. Hitty, lovely yellow lab on a big farm out living in the grass.

Okay, Yeah, and then it came to a screeching halt. Sometimes it does, it does, and it happened on Saturday. All right, Kyle Bonagura College Football, our first guest right out of the gates. But before we get to Kyle on a Monday afternoon, courtesy of our good friends and your good friends too at Prize Picks, it's time now for your opening tip.

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My guess is Boston was watching Indiana New York and they were livid at themselves for not taking advantage of this opportunity, because Boston really was built for one more run based off of how their books are structured now because they have new ownership, and according to Bobby Marks, their luxury tax bill next year just to have their

And I have a lot of respect for Rick Carlisle.

I think this is a really, really good basketball team, and Rick himself has been pretty front facing and honest about how good they're playing. It's kind of interesting to hear him both after the Cavs series and now after the Knicks series basically say they ran into us when we were playing our best basketball. The year by far Indiana started out the year ten and fifteen, there were people wondering if they needed to break up Siakam and Haliburton.

Siakam was awesome?

And this isn't like a andre Iguidala wins the finals MVPs over Stephan Curry. I mean, that was historically stupid for anybody who voted for Iguadala over Steph, like Steph was the only reason they were in that series in the.

First place and able to win it.

Yes, I know, Iguadala guard Lebron save it like that was such a crime.

It was so atrocious. This wasn't that bad.

But if you go if you go back and watch the postgame stuff, as Ernie Johnson is about to announce the Eastern Conference Player of the Series, I think it's the Larry Bird Award now.

And the league is doing this thing where they've created.

More awards so they can attach historical, you know, special names to the awards. And that's great, it's all good. You should respect the history of the league in the game. But when Ernie said, and the winner of the Eastern Conference Finals MVP is Tyrese Halliburton took a step towards the stage, like he started walking towards Ernie and he said, Pascal Siakam, And if you look at Halliburton's face, he's like, wait what.

It was wild? I mean, And the vote was five to four.

There were only nine voters, but he was ready to go take the trophy and then Ernie announces it with Siakam.

Hey, look like I said, this is not.

Like an atrocity of historic proportions like the staph at wadalas stuff thing. But Tyres Halliburton makes them go. He dictates pace in a way that very few lead guards in the NBA can do right now. He was more or less really really good all series long. His worst game was the game that the Knicks gut in New York. But he makes everything go for them, and Siakam did a really really good job because and we'll get to the cat stuff. I think the Knicks have a cat problem.

And also another.

Side note like ultimately, like if Thomas Bryant is knocking down threes, we can go home.

There's nothing else to do.

Like their third string center who could barely get on the floor, is knocking down threes, you know, like he's Ray Allen all of a sudden. It's that was a wild side note. Former Nikovi Topham was really good. But I said this after Game five in preparation for Game six six, I'm like, the one way the Knicks can get this done is if they replicate the defensive effort and intensity in game six then we saw in Game five, and they didn't.

They just didn't. The closeouts once again were horrible.

Kat defensively was a sieve and Indiana feasting on him. It was just a decent Jalen game, not a great Jalen game. OG was awesome. Michel Bridges has taken a ton of crap in the New York media today because the Knicks traded all their draft capital for him and he was just okay, not great, but for an elimination game. The fact that like Landry Shammitt may have been one of your best players and at least was out there giving effort. And we saw, you know, twelve minutes from

Okay, and shoots it well from the outside.

But even if it's og or Michel like, they get the ball and they just go one on one isolation and ultimately that to me has a natural ceiling. And also as far as the natural ceiling goes, this is something that we've seen for a number of years, like a good team will manifest itself with their best player being a small point guard. One example that comes to mind is the Chris Paul Clipper team, you know, lob City with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan and ESPN playing

He is a sieve on defense.

He doesn't move well, and Indiana did a really good job of confusing him.

Sometimes it was dropped, sometimes.

He would blitz, and then every game two or three just brain farts where he commits fowls and then he looks at the reft like what did I do? And then you see the replay and you're like, you literally grabbed the guy. It was so obvious that you committed the dumbest fowls and the Knicks needed more from him,

And sure enough, second half starts and.

You see the Knick's legs start to go and Indiana just runs them off the floor. And the lack of effort was pretty stunning. But I think a lot of it was fatigue. And New York's got decisions to make this offseason as the Indiana Pacers are marching on to the NBA Finals only the second finals appearance for the Pacers last one was twenty five years ago when they beat the Knicks in six and went to the finals and lost.

So so there you go.

Also, and we'll get to more of this coming up with a couple of guests.

Smitty, He's gonna be live in studio.

The Utah Jazz have hired Austin Ahe the son of team CEO and alternate governor Danny Age away from the Celtics, and now Austin is the team's president of basketball operations. When you read through some of the Ryan Smith statements in some of the comments, it sounds like Austin and Justin will report to Danny, not you know, Justin reports to Austin.

Austin report.

It sounds like Justin Zantik and Austin Ainge are kind of linear on their place in the ORG chart or whatever, and we'll report to Danny, who then of course reports to Ryan. So we'll get into this. Austin spent seventeen years with the Boston Self explained as college basketball Brigham Young college football.

Right out of the gates, though with our buddy.

Kyle Vonnagura, who covers college football sometimes a little soccer as well for ESPN.

Kyle, Happy Monday. It's been a minute. How you been, Bud. I'm I'm good. I'm good.

So some interesting offseason college football storylines. Let's start with the new CFP expansion proposal, the five plus eleven model, which of course has support in some areas and detractors and others. The Big twelve media or excuse me, the Big twelve kind of summer meetings were held this weekend in Orlando. Heard a lot from Brett Yormark. But what say you about what's on the table? Five plus eleven

Yeah, I think it's where it's headed. As far as I like it, I kind of felt like sixteen was the right number from the beginning. The buyers or it felt like the NCAAs takes small steps right, they're not willing to you know, you're willing to go from two to four from four, then you jump ay, I guess they did jump out the eight to twelve. But it's filled for me, like if you're gonna have if you're gonna have a real playoff, sixteen. It makes it nice

At the end of the year.

I mean, I really like the FCS model that's even bigger than that of these twenty four teams. Like for me, that you could do buys with early round byes and include more teams. It doesn't necessarily add too many games in total for the whole country, right, but you get to have meaningful games at the end of the season. So yeah, like sixteen, like I think it's there's more football, and I like having more football than matter, And I

As far as the multiple automatic qualified spots for the Big ten in the SEC essentially taking half the spots and then the Big twelve in the ACC getting two and then leaving one for the group of five and then you know the at large stuff. Do you think that's where we're going as well? Or do you think there's enough pushback from people that aren't in the big ten in the SEC to maybe just make get a straight sixteen sixteen team with eleven plus five.

How do you think that plays out?

I think it should be eleven plus five. It would be kind of a bully You feel like it would be bullying the other conferences if they added more automatic bids for the SEC and the Big ten, because like the thing is like they don't need the automatic bids. There's not going to be You can game it out however you want to do it. Like, it's just I don't see a scenario where that would even really come into play, right. Maybe you can get get creative with it,

Yeah, I agree with that, well said, So the sixteen team expanded model will come our way twenty twenty six. This year, we will have the twelve team format, but it will be straight seeding. I don't know why they didn't do this initially, Kyle. This seems to be one of those like very common sense type things that should have been done right away. But you know, we've already got your thoughts on the sixteen team thing. But that's

Yeah, so I I mean, I think, like you said, for me, it was like another obvious move. And as you know, I do like the bolt productions during the regular season, and this is something that I identified the first week. I did it the first week after games are played. Where the impact, Like I understand like the idea of it, Like they wanted to reward those like the Big twelve champion and the ACC champion, right, they wanted to give them a reward for winning their conferences.

Do you still think you know?

Coach Witt was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he continues to talk about the super league potential possibility that you and I have discussed for years now and college football writers have written about for years now, and I don't know, man, like it feels like this has become more fluid, in my opinion than actually something

What about you?

So?

I think I'm still like pretty confident eventually it we'll get there. I think for me, the question is is like how long is it going to take. It's not going to happen in five years. It might not happen in ten years, but you know, eventually, you know. Once and I think too, is like you have to kind of get people to cycle out right the current admitted like the leadership in place across the country, conferences and schools.

Like?

Why are why are we peers with them as opposed to creating a larger pie and less less people to pull from or less schools to pull from. So I think like eventually it still gets there, but it's just a matter of waiting to see how how long that will take. I mean, in hindsight, it's kind of remarkable that this didn't all happen faster, Like you've seen how it has all played out so quickly, Like there's just so much money at stake that eventually money will always

So we've all been waiting for the House VNC DOUBA settlement, and you know, we continue to wait, and it's been kind of wild to watch what has unfolded surrounding this dynamic, with certain states passing laws kind of behind closed doors where it's like, yeah, our schools do not have to adhere to whatever that settlement says, and then the P four programs are all writing contracts to say, well, actually you do if you want to hang out with us.

It all continues to be very fluid.

I think maybe I was a little bit hopeful in Pie in the Sky and maybe naive believing that the House VNC double A settlement would suddenly give us guardrails and guidelines we've been looking for.

So how is this going.

All play out and what you're understanding about where we're aut in the process of the House VNC double A.

That's a great question. I wish I had a nice tidy answer for you, because it's I mean, it's just so messy, And I think what's difficult right as you have you know, fifty states or you know, not that not quite that many in the NC DOUBLEA that are are kind of in play here. But the point is you have all these state governments, you have local governments, you have private schools, you have public schools. There's so

You know, one of the walking lines you hear a lot, and I'm guilty of using it too is and sometimes maybe if you do what you and I do for a living, this is just like a smoke screen when really what you're saying is I don't understand any of this. So you land on, Well, Saturdays in the fall will

Yeah, I hope so, And that's probably the best I can do. I mean, I do think that there is a novelty about the conference realignment that was interesting this year. You have to see new schools and new teams and and that part had had some a lure. But I do think that all were off, you know, pretty quickly, at least for me. And eventually, when you're playing these games that you don't have strong regional or historic ties to,

To expect one more thing in this space, And I apologize if you feel like you've gone on Bloomberg News on a Monday afternoon.

But I do want to ask you about another storyline.

Brett Yormark, among many things he's had to say over the past seventy two hours, is the Big twelve has elected to not accept private equity money for an ownership stake in the conference. And you know, about a year ago, I think it was Mark Lazry if I remember correctly, the owner of the Bucks, who in a public form said he planned on making an offer at Ohio State football to try to buy like forty nine percent of

Now, if they needed the money, they would take it.

But it must mean that they don't want to sell any ownership in either conferences or teams because of how dumb.

The money continues to be with live TV rights.

I mean, that's where my antenna goes when I keep hearing these stories that now go the other way. As far as people not accepting private equity money, what are your thoughts on that?

So, I think it's like everything is a negotiation, right. I think what happened was the Big Twelve, you know, realized that they weren't going to get enough money that they were there was like the the idea the offer wasn't big enough. Right, if you had whatever the number is, say say like, we'll just throw at a number that makes no sense, but you would have to accept, right, if the number was fifty billion dollars, right, of course they

Let's move over here.

You know, Brian Santiago hired his BYU's athletic director, taking over for Tom Homo. So before I expand to the second part of the question, let me get your thoughts on that. And mostly I'm quite sure you don't know, Brian, but covering Tom Homo as BYU's athletic director, I think he did a remarkable job. Traversing through independence for a decade was a tough ask, but they were able to

I live here in the Bay Area. So my first kind of experience with Tom Holmo as he's the coach at Cal, he's the coach or assistant coach of the forty nine ers before it, So I was kind of like always generally aware of him in the space, and then you know, I had a chance to get to know him a little bit this past year with a few stories I was working on about BUYU. And like I think with those interactions like with with Tom that I had, I really enjoyed all of them. For me,

You know.

Getting into the Big twelve was a big win after the kind of the obviously of independence for for so long, and so he leaves BUYU in a spot where you know, for Brian you can hope to build off that. Obviously, the I think Buyu, you know, more than a lot of schools has really benefited from the ANL shift. They have a lot of people who are willing to help out with with those programs to help them stay competitive.

I think the Santiago News became official on May nineteenth, and then on May twenty first, the Salt Lake Tribune reports that Jake Rerhetz Laugh is being sued by a woman here in Salt Lake. It is a civil lawsuit and we've talked about it on the show.

These are not criminal charges.

So the Tribune reports on it, and then you wrote on it for ESPN.

You were actually able to uncover some new details.

I don't know that I have a question, and I don't want to make this a football story because it isn't. He is the starting quarterback for BYU and coming off a really good year. But I wonder throughout the process that you went through to kind of have the discovery for what you wrote on the dot com for ESPN, what you would like to share about this story and if you have any insight on what the next steps are.

Yeah, these are always tough to report. And you get into this industry hoping to write about sports and you end up reading a civil case about a really gruesome allegation of rape. Right, I've read a lot of these sorts of civil filings over the years, and this is this is one of the worst ones that I've read, just in how graphic it was. That's all part of the public domain at this point. You know, you don't know if these are Again, I can't stress the stuff.

All Right, Kyle, before I say, you loose, and I always kind of chuckle when I do this to you, because it's early June and we have no idea what these teams are going to look.

Like come fall.

But I will ask you about the University of Utah because we're a mile away from Risco Stadium and we're the home of the youth. So Vegas has set the over under at seven point five. That's mid table for Big twelve. I think most of the preseason prediction stuff I've seen has Utah anywhere between like four and seven. So I think it's probably better for them not to have these lofty expectations like they did a year ago.

Yeah, it's it's I certainly expect going to be much much better than a year ago. It's hard to you know, two and seven, it's hard to be worse, as they say, right, I think like the schedule is, you know, it's manageable. I think non conference UCLA, Cal Poly, Wyoly, those are all winnable games. So you expect to be three to zero headed in the conference. And then if you go then if you go four and five, even the conference, that puts it at seven wins, which would be a

You allow, my friend, Well, I appreciate your time today. Hope all is well with you, have a great week, and we'll chat too. And thanks Kyle, all right. Thanks Bona gir covers college football and a little soccer from time to time for our friends at ESPN. I'm noticing that he never tweets anymore. But his work is up on his Twitter page at Bonagra ESPN is where you find him.

So appreciate Kyle's temp.

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I'm good. I'm good.

So let's let's be let's be reductive right off the start. Why are we not previewing eight game seven tonight between the Knicks and the Pacers.

Well, the defense of the Knicks just couldn't keep up with the Pacers. Carl Anthony Howe and Mitchell Robinson as your rim protectors, it didn't bode well for the Knicks. They've got Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns, who are two one way superstars. They are superstar offensive players, but defensively Josh hart og Annobie mckel bridges and Mitchell Robinson to a lesser degree, he was coming off the bench

But you can't.

Excuse Karl Anthony Towns having one block in that entire conference finals.

It just can't happen.

And it's the first time that we've seen a player that size in the conference finals, play that many minutes and have that few number of blocks. It's just very difficult to win when your best center is is not a rim protector and a good defender. Now Nikolie Jokic gets away with that. He's not as soft as Karl Anthony Towns is as a rim protector. The defense for the Knicks was really their undoing is that they just were not able to get enough scoring in order to

Your point about the next defense is spot on. And that's that's the thing that I've been talking about on the show because the two games where they guarded, they won, but they only guarded for two games, Tom. And you know, I said on Friday before we signed off, prior to that game six on Saturday, like, I know that the Pacers were getting, you know, a lot, a lot of credit, a lot of love for their shot making. The game one comeback where Nie Smith went crazy. You go back

Now.

I also will say the Cat was better in this playoff run than I've ever seen him play in playoff basketball. I don't want to make this like I'm only crushing Cat, but you look at their books, Tom, They've got their five mini guys signed for a while.

But I don't know.

I think you do need to figure something out with Karl Anthony Towns because he just does not play defense and commits some of the dumbest fouls that I've ever seen watching NBA basketball.

So if you're Leon.

Rose and you look at a season that I think a little bit is twenty dollars in the back pocket of jeans that you pull out of the dryer because you did get to the Eastern Conference Finals. You did block Boston from winning a championship. But I don't know that this group has more in them than what we saw. I don't know that this is an NBA finals group. I don't know that I would pick him to make it back to the Eastern Conference Finals next year.

What does the offseason look like in New York time.

Well, the tough thing here is a couple of things. One, they put in five first round picks and cleaned out their cover to first round picks tradable first round picks to get mckel bridges, and he just wasn't good enough to justify that price tech.

He just wasn't.

He was softer defensively, not as physical as you would want someone point of attack defender. He's a guy who loved the mid range and hit a bunch of mid range shots, but became kind of Ben Simmons esque yips. He and Josh Hart just did not want to take a layup, and for that you gave up five first round picks. And the only tradable first round pick that you have is Washington's top eight protected pick next year, and that's almost certainly not going to convey. And then

Carrots in that trade.

Milwaukee looks at that and says, I really how much? What are the odds that we're going to say, Yeah, the Knicks with Jalen Brunson, Michel Bridges, ogn andob and And and Jannis ended Akompo are going to have a worse team than the Milwaukee Bucks with Karl Anthony town So it's like you look at potential blockbuster trade, you put it on the on the table for Jannisana d Kompo. I Jianis even wants out of Milwaukee. Leon Rose has to a convince Janni Sanda da Koumpo that the New

But Jannis is.

At Octagon and so the CIA link that he has with Jalen Brunson, his son, Leon Rose's son is Jalen Brunson's agent at CIA, Sam Rose. If you look at og Ananobi CIA, if you look at Josh Hart CIA, Karl Anthony Towns CIA, the New York Knicks have allocated one hundred and thirty million dollars of their payroll this year to CIA clients. That's the largest sum in the NBA for any team an agency. So it's very closely aligned.

Before he was picked number one.

Oh for all, he was close with Karl Anthony Towns and war Why West when Karl anton Town's decided to go play for the national team, the Dominican national team. The coach was John Calipari, who then coached him at Kentucky. Like they're they're very close and they go way back, right, So, now that you're on the Knicks, is Leon Rose going to be able to look at Karl Anthony Towns and say, we're going to trade you to Milwaukee for Yiannis. That's

That's gonna be tough.

The other thing is like KD. What happens with KD? You know his rich Climban, his agent is the New York guy, and KD if everyone expects him to be on the market this summer, whether it's Minnesota or somewhere else, Houston, Miami, New York, New York again, Karl Anthony Towns would have to go. As as that trade money wise, you have to bring in a three team deal and that might

At this age.

But you get up the long term money because right now he's going to be an expiring deal next year. If Leon Rose looks for this and says, all right, maybe I don't trade you to Milwaukee, but you get to reunite with Devin Booker and Phoenix, he gets to take care of his client. There there's other options for the Knicks.

They run it back.

Maybe they move mckel bridges to Dallas or somewhere else where. They can move mckel and try to get maybe Daniel Gafford and Caleb Martin from Dallas and Dallas upgrades on the point of attack defense next to Anthony Davis.

And we know so.

Nico Harrison, we know he wants defense wins championships, and right now their point of attack defense is like Klay Thompson and Cooper Flack. I don't think that that's going to work out for them this year if they want to win. And so maybe you propose that trade. But even then it's very likely Spence that the Knicks just decide to run this back.

I think Knicks fans would love to have Giannis.

I think they would love to have KD. But it requires a CIA team to trade away their top CAA guy in Karl Anthony Towns. And that's it matters more than people realize, is these relationships over time. And Leon Rose has always been a very loyal guy. Jalen Brunson's father, Rick Brunson, was his first client, NBA client, and now he's the coach for Tom Thibodeaux, another CIA client, So this and of course gets his son to be the

Anthony Town's the guy?

Or do you move him to try to get a superstar in kd And and Giannis? So that's really what's on the table for them, is I mean, we don't know that Giannis is going to be a trade target this summer, but I can tell you every team does these contingencies after this season. Is if we're going to upgrade this roster, how do we do it? And I wonder how willing they are in moving Karl Anthony Towns considered.

That's good. That's better than the Knicks have had in.

The last couple of decades. But is it enough to win a championship?

And I say no, Do we talk enough about how elite Rick Carlisle is.

I mean I was going over some of the stuff this morning, and look, I'm a big Tom Thibodeau guy, and Tom was an assistant for Jeff and so was able to get to know him. And to your point about where the Knicks find themselves now, it's so much better than anywhere they've been for decades that if you run it back and Tom's the guy, then I think most Nick fans would say, Okay, like sign me up. It's at least nice to have a team that's relevant

So you know, Rick.

Gets his championship with a twenty eleven Dallas Mavericks team that was interesting with Dirk being peaked Dirk. That was Jason Terry sixth Man of the Year Award, That was Tyson Chandler Defensive Player of the Year. But they won a couple of series where they were underdogs and they beat the Heat in the finals. And now he has this group that nobody thought was gonna be relevant outside of maybe winning a series, and they're in the NBA Finals.

Give me your thoughts.

Well, the best ones always adapt. And it reminds me of Greg Popovich and how he regarded the three point line, or regarded zone defense, or regarded different styles of play. And Rick Carlisle that twenty eleven team. I covered that NBA Finals in Miami, and it was amazing to watch this veteran team rally together. Sean Marion, derk Noviski, Jason Kidd, Corn Butler, Like this is a very old team. This team, the Indiana Pacers, couldn't.

Be more different.

They're They're led by Tyrese Haliburton, only a few years into the NBA, and the average age on this team is barely twenty six years old. Or that that Dallas team in twenty eleven was a bunch of dudes whore at the end of their careers.

And so the ability to.

Adapt in the NBA as a coach is something that I think is in direct contrast to Tom Thibodeaux this series, where you know, you look at Tibbs and TIB's TIBs for better force. But he played that five man lineup all season long about forty minutes a game, basically the Brunson Michel Hart and Nobi and Karl Anthony Town started them and played them into the ground and they never got to a good defense. They never did and then in Game three he had to switch up and put

All year.

It was like, we're gonna win by playing up tempo and running teams out of the gym with a deep roster, and we are going to no matter what, stay tued or our playing style and not rely on two guys to win us games. We're going to rely on Nie Smith is gonna win us games. Nemhar You saw him in game six, how well he played in Game six, and how well he played in previous series.

This is a team that really just.

Believed Rick Carlyle believed in these role players to play like stars when they needed to. And unfortunately, on the Nick's side, the role players just fell apart. I mean, Deuce McBride, the og McHale, Josh Hart, they did not step up, whereas the Indiana Pacers and the belief that Rick Carlo imbued in these guys. It really did seem like two very different coaches on different ends of the

Indiana's consolation prize for making the NBA Finals is a matchup with a team right now, Tom that just feels like they've found a little something, well, not just found something.

They've been historic all year.

But I was resident, or I should say hesitant and reticent as I combine those two words in one question to just anoint them because I'd never seen them make a long playoff run, and then jokes on me because they're just they're everything you want and they've been able to stay healthy, which this time of year is a massive thing. So what sort of chance do you give Indiana to make the NBA Finals?

Interesting? With Shay the MVP.

On one side, I am blown away with how many players Mark Dagnold has at his disposal. I heard somebody use the term he's like a starting pitcher with six different pitches. I mean, he can he can bring whatever the night needs. He can say, how do you want to play? Okay, that's fine, we'll beat you playing that way too. So can Indiana make this interesting or does it feel like it's pretty overwhelming in Oklahoma City's favor.

Barring injury, they have a slim to none chance of making.

This a series.

Okay, See, it's.

Just that good.

When you look at the regular season point differential between these two teams, it's one of the largest we've ever seen, if not the largest in NBA history. And in terms of finals matchups, like the Thunder had one of the biggest point differentials. Meeting they outscored the opponent by over twelve points a game in every game this season, on average, about twelve points a game. The Pacers were good this

Good, like one of the ten best teams.

We've ever seen put together. And of course that final chapter of winning the NBA Finals will seal that. But everything I've seen from this season has told me that this is one of the best teams we've ever seen. I mean, they've already won eighty games this year and there's only three other teams and it be a history who have won more in a at this point, and it's like peak Jordan and peak Warriors. So this team is so good. I'm going with okac in five. But honestly,

Yeah, I'm with you, man, all right before I set you loose. Kind of a surprising piece of news. I mean, I hadn't caught wind of any rumors in this direction. But Utah Jazz have fired Austin Age as their president of basketball ops. Uh so, of course, and we're gonna hear Austin speak here coming up in a bid. According to the statements that were made by Ryan Smith, Danny no statements.

He stayed completely out of it.

Sounds like this is going to be a scenario where Xanik is still the GM and he works with Austin on a day to day basis, and both those two report to Danny, and then of course Danny reports to Ryan as the owner. So what we have here is a team that's locked up their head coach through twenty thirty one potentially, and now has a front office that they've locked up for the foreseeable future as well, without a lot of results so far. And yes, they're three

Well, this is NBA front offices and power structures across the league. If people want to say nepotism, then I would say this is very common in the league. The Lacubs and Kirk Lacub in the front office, the owner's son in the front office.

There.

You look at the Colangelo's and Phoenix and in Toronto you look at you look at the Airsons in Miami, similar story.

You look at across the league.

You're gonna have this this And I'm not saying that Danny Age is the owner, but I think people are crying foul at the idea that the CEO, Danny Ainge would hire his son to run basketball ops.

And I'm just like, I mean, this has been.

The NBA for a very long time. Is We've seen this kind of relationship, and it's just another one of these father son combos in ownership and in front office.

Great run with the Lakers.

But you need someone younger to burn that midnight oil in ways that Austin Ange will be doing that for the Utah Jazz. So it's a People might say that this is kind of a corrupt thing to do because the CEO just hired his son to run basketball ops but Danny Ainge has earned that right. And I would also say that this is nothing new in the NBA and that you see these types of things all across the league and that is a story as old as time in the NBA.

Well, Tom appreciate the time.

Was hoping to talk Game seven at MSG tonight, but hopefully the NBA Finals carry some intrigue. Where can everybody go get that great work of yours?

Yeah, Yahoo Sports.

You can check out that column about the three trades that I wrote wrote out about the New York Knicks where they go from here. And also you can check out Basketball Illuminati, the NBA podcast that we do account the things with the me and Al Hassen and of course Top Chef. You're a big fan of that show. I get my Pack Your Knives podcast as well as my newsletter Tom to find. Are lots of places, but it's always great to spend time with you.

Spence the Great Tom Abers Jrow. Monday afternoon, we'll catch a quick break. We're gonna bringing Richard Smith live in studio Austin h currently is speaking to the media.

We'll bring you some sound in about an hour from now.

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Lock in the savings of twenty five hundred dollars off when you buy ten windows or more at eight one eight five zero ninety one hundred. That's eight one eight five zero ninety one hundred eight. All right, Austin Ainge is addressing the media as we speak. Border is going to grab that sound and we will bring it to you coming up.

In about an hour from right now.

Richard Smith is live in studio for an entire hour on this beautiful Monday afternoon.

Smitty, Happy Monday, sir, How are.

You Ben's We're doing great? How are you doing?

Man?

Good? Great to see Scottie Schaffron A little heater, isn't he?

How about that another man? He was?

He just he is so laser focus man here a robot, yeah, you know, and and the very little emotion. Everything's just calm, you know, whether he it's one bad shot around or whatever it is, but he just kind of he just kind of dials it in and just keeps going.

He's, you know, he is, He's that guy at the moment. He is.

He is impressive to watch.

But the big news of the day today, Smitty the Jazz have announced they've hired Austin h. Danny's son uh and Danny's the CEO an alternate governor of the Jazz now and Austin was with the Boston Celtics for seventeen years when Danny was there. He hired Austin to run the league team. I've known Austin for years. I've known Danny my entire life. They're good people, you know they are, And a higher like this will always be met with

Well, I've known Austin for a long time and know him, you know, and not know him personally, But watch them when you're down to BYU. Most people people don't don't, don't realize it unless you're a real hardcore BYU fan. He played four years at b YA and uh and and his senior senior year he led the Mountain West Conference in three point shooting, shot over fifty percent from the floor from three, was one of the top three point shooters in the country in college basketball his senior year.

And uh So.

I think it's I think it's great for the Jazz to get someone like like Austin, a younger guy who's had a lot of experience and uh, and knows what it takes to win and it's been around a winning environment and uh. You know, I'm excited for him because I know he's a he's a great uh, a great person. You know, I don't know him real well, but I know him well enough to to to you know, comment that he's Uh. I think it's a great get for the for the Jazz at this point in time.

Yeah, Between my freshman and sophomore year in college at the U, I did a customer relations internship at Madison Square Garden, which entailed answering phone calls from angry New Yorkers that were mad about the Elton John concert because they couldn't get a hot talk. It was interesting work, and during that time I became friendly with a guy named Dave Snowden. Ironically enough is his name. He found

It feels like everybody ignores me.

And he said a line to me that I've never forgotten, he said, Spence, I was nineteen years old the.

Time he said, you need to learn this lesson.

Now, nobody cheers for the son of a famous father, right, and so this will be met inevitably with the nepotism this And okay, as he really qualified that. But what you're outlining, committe, it sounds like you believe regardless of what his last name is, he has put in.

The groundwork for this opportunity.

Well, he's been.

He's worked in basketball ever since he got out of BYU. He's been doing it in the NBA for seventeen years. He started with a brand new develop Mental League team UH in Maine, so they had to build that from the ground up. He was the head coach. He learned coaching philosophy and approached for two years doing that as a twenty five twenty six year old I think he was at that time, and then moved down to Boston to work with his dad more directly in personnel and

You know, they could have.

Gotten rid of Austin Ange if they didn't like him or he wasn't doing the job or whatever in Boston once his dad went away.

But Austin's Austin's a hard worker. He's a good guy.

He'll he'll, you know, take some lumps on the the nepotism thing whatever, which I which to me is just lazy. I mean, you know, Ryan Smith isn't going to hire somebody that he isn't thinking can help them.

You know.

I do think maybe they have to consider changing the name from the Utah Jazz to the BYU Jazz, you know, because that's you know, they're top loaded with BYU guys now and the ownership and in the front office.

You know. But but Austin's a good guy and.

He's a hard worker, he knows what he's doing, and it'll be interesting to see how that how the group works in terms of how they realign stuff internally going forward.

So, and let's be clear, I know you're not behind closed doors over there anymore. But when you read the release in some of Ryan's comments, and we'll hear from Austin coming up in about forty five minutes, it sounds like Xanak is your GM, Austin is your president of basketball ops. They're gonna kind of work in lockstep together, and those two report to Danny as the CEO, and Danny then reports to Ryan, who's the owner. Sounds like

That's kind of how it goes. Yeah, No, I don't know.

I would assume that that you know, they were on board. I mean, Austin, you know, will come in and they'll all work together, you know.

I don't know how they work over there, now not.

Being in the room so to speak, but but it seems like they're very a collaborative group that everybody has, you know, a say in the room, and you know you have to listen also to your personnel people. You know, Bart Taylor is over there, has been there since it came with Dennis Lindsay from San Antonio, and it's still there as as the vice president of player Personnel and

Maybe, I don't know.

And then uh and Justin Zanik Will would probably concentrate more on the day to day minutia with the agents and the office stuff and all that kind of thing. And you know, but they'll all be in the room, they'll all have a say. Again, don't know what the who the final voice is. I'm guessing it's Ryan Smith

So what we have here is something that is rather unique in the ecosystem of NBA basketball, where a team for three years has stumbled through what I articulate as a very awkward rebuild with some decisions I think are very questionable, and the jury is still out on most, if not all of them. Probably outside of Lowry and Walker, I don't know if Keante George even makes Oklahoma City's

And I'm not saying they are or they are not.

I want to be clear, But what are your thoughts on the decision to let's go ahead and lock in our coach, let's go ahead and lock in our front office when the results, which is what this business is and what it always will be, have been mixed at best.

Yeah.

Well, you know, part of it is, Spence, is that teams always talk about trying to get some level of continuity, so to trying to build something that has some sustainability but also has some natural flow to it. And the other way you can do that is when you have people in place that you believe know what they're doing, that can make some good decisions.

And and you you don't.

You don't, you don't shake the tree, and you don't change things up when you hit a bump in the road. And I think that's what they're trying to do. Now, you're you're right. They've They've been three years into this tear down whatever they want to call it, haven't made any headway. The last two years, they've been the worst defensive team in the league by all metrics.

Haven't hasn't gotten any better.

But we've also talked Spence about the idea that when you do these kind of things, there's a certain amount, certain percentage of the moves you make that that you control,

You know that kind of thing.

So that falls in your lap, and you have to have the ability to respond to make something happen, like having draft picks or having players that the other team wants or whatever. And so that's something that happens can

Now now you're scrambling. And so that's what they're gonna do.

Uh, they're gonna get a good player at five if they if they keep five, and there's all kinds of scenarios they could get into and trying to move up or even move back, or try to parlay it into a couple of players if they like a couple of different guys or what have you, and all those kind of things that we'll be talking about in the next few weeks heading up to draft day. But that's that's the stuff that you have to be able to deal with.

Not going down the road you want to go down, then.

You got to just keep sitting on the bus stop and waiting for the next bus. And as we've said before, Spence, there's no time frame on that. You can't say you have a five year plan. You can't say you have a six year plan because you have no idea what's going to come around the corner next week that might change your fortunes, and so what you're trying to do, you're always trying to improve your situation and improve your group in the way that you think is going to

We should also reference that Austin, while in Boston that Ryan, I didn't mean to do that work with Will Hardy, who's an assistant coach for emy Udoka with the Boston Celtics, So there are synergies there as well. I wanted to ask you this though, many because you had a front row seat and still have a front row seat to a father son combo that originally built the best teams we had here with Frank and Scott.

So you know, Frank was the coach.

He also had a lot of say in player personnel decisions than Scotty was the general manager eventually, and of course you draft John Ocarl you got something special. You make trades for Hornisak and a bunch of other moves that's got made.

Clearly did a good job here.

What did you witness with the dynamic of that father son combo? What made it so successful early on running the Jazz Well, one of.

The things that people will tell you who had the opportunity in the eighties and nineties to work under the Frank Laden and his leadership as the general manager, then the head coach and then the president of the team of during the nineties is that Frank was great at getting people in position to do certain responsibilities and then allowing them to do their job. You know, you've heard the often quoted phrase from Bill Belichick, the great Patriots coach,

You know, he supports me. I support him. You know.

Jerry Sloan was the same way. I remember, you know, more than a few times would be in a in a practice and and at the end of practice, Jerry would say, Okay, we have a we have a community event tomorrow with three and so make sure you remember that we're gonna do something downtown for for some charity or whatever. And you know, obviously there'd be some always some kind of player pushback.

Or do I have to show up? I have to do this? And he goes, uh, well, I don't know, that's uh.

You know.

Patty Ballely was our longtime community relations person. You go, Patty, what what what? What's the thing tomorrow? Well, we're doing this or whatever, and and guys would want to complain or something, and he would go, hey, hey, hey, hey, Patty told you what the deal is. That's the deal. It's not a big deal. We just do what we're

That's how you get people to to work.

Late, right, to stay after hours, to work on weekends, to work on holidays, to be away from their families or whatever, because they want to. They have a feeling that they're they're they're from doing something and having some input for the greater good of the of the entire organization. And and that's how the Jazz built what they had, along with the support of the Millers as the owners all those years and in that kind of an atmosphere.

Down, you know.

And and and let me tell you, it makes a lot easier to go to work every day if that's the atmosphere around your building, you know, day in and day out.

Yeah, I mean, before we catch a break.

Chris Finch after the t Wolves lost, during his postgame presser, he said something along the lines there are thirteen teams in the West next year, they'd all think they have a shot for home court advantage.

I went, all right, Well, he's.

Leaving the Jazz off the list, and he's leaving probably the Blazers off the list.

Right.

San Antonio will probably think they've got a shot with Oneman Yama healthy and another pick. So it's clear that it's no secret. It's no secret to them down who's running like, we all know what the score is, we all know what the deal is. We all know what they did a year ago to manipulate lineups to lose intentionally for more bites of the apple. Didn't work. So before we catch a break. I don't know if the Austin Hire indicates a different direction. We'll have to wait

Well, it was.

It's gonna depend spense on what happens between now and and training camp, and there's a lot of things that could happen. You know, in a worst case Jazz scenario, you know, they end up taking their picks that they have. They have four draft picks in the upcoming draft. They're picking five and twenty one in the first round, and then they're picking forty three and fifty three in the second round, So they have a potential to add four more young players. I don't think that will happen, but

Does it happen? Who knows, you know, but those.

Are all the things that they're positioning themselves to at least, you know, get in the room or get on a

Can you do that? And and and uh and.

Incur the wrath of your fans who want to know, you know, well, why is this year gonna be different than last year?

You know?

Why do you think we're gonna have a different outcome? And you know, and all of that, and that's that's that's gonna be difficult to deal with and very painful if that's what is happening in uh, December and January.

All Right, we'll catch a break and coming up on the other side, the NBA Finals start on Thursday, so we should give some flowers, as the kids would say, to the team still playing basketball. So we'll do that, and then we'll talk about the Western Conference in the NBA and kind of try to figure out where the Jazz can fit in. As Chris Finch pointed out, thirteen really talented rosters reside in the West next year, so

Austin has been hired.

By the Jazz as a new president of basketball operations. Our friend Sarah Todd Frond of the program a couple of tidbits real quick. Austin was asked about his philosophy on tanking manipulating minutes to improve lottery odds. His answer was, quote, you will not see that this year. Ryan Smith has said that Austin Ainge will have final say and will give recommendations to him. So s many we'll hear the comments later. You and I have been on air, so

Where your thoughts, so, well, what knee jerk reaction would be if he if he made the statement and use the phrase tanking is off the table, if that was accurate or however he phrased.

It as quote, you will not see that this year.

That's so so that to means there's some some admission that that's what they were doing, even though they've never said that, and obviously it was all under the guise of player development and trying to figure out which I

Next year's draft is going to be, by by most people's.

Evaluations, is going to be a very good draft also, and so if that's the case as well a year from now, uh, the Jazz would have another opportunity and at a good prospect and a good talent. But you know, if if Austin Ainge is saying that's off the table, that's not what we're gonna do, then that's gonna be interesting, because that would mean to me, then we're gonna see a lot of stuff happening or at least attempting to happen, uh,

I don't think he could say anything different.

He wants to come in and give people hope that you know, I'm here to help us get better and improve and and help us come along with us, and we're gonna get this done and whatever.

That's that's what part of what his job is.

Here's another quote from Ryan Smith when asked about Austin Ryan and this is Andy Larson's Twitter profile quote. Austin will be running the program. He's got final recommendation to myself on any decisions that need to be made. I think it's the job of justin Danny myself to plug into him. So that is Ryan still saying that he's making final decisions.

So he's saying Austin.

Will be running the program, but the way he's characterized it is he's got final recommendation to myself on any decisions.

Well if that, if that's the case, then you know, I'd be interested to hear how where Danny, Danny Ainge fits in all this and whether Danny is is this a precursor to Danny, you know, getting one foot out the door, and is Danny and and uh, you know, on the verge of you know, saying, hey, Austin can take it from here.

And you know, I originally retired you know, five.

Years ago or six years ago, whatever it was, from the Celtics, and that was my intent. And then Ryan Smith talked me, you know, back into coming back in and helping the Jazz, and I've done that. But I'm you know, I'm you know, we put this new person then just happens to be my son. He's in a position of authority within the basketball operations. And so does that mean Danny's going to have a lesser profile going forward? And does that mean that he's going to have less

Good point.

Here's a Will Hardy quote on Austin Age quote. During my time with the Celtics, I really enjoyed working alongside Austin and was able to gain a great appreciation for his basketball inside and acumen. Having Austin health guide our group as we continue to grow as huge for our program. Are you surprised we haven't heard anything from Daniel from Danny himself, So again.

I don't know.

It's it'll be interesting Spence, how you know if that comes out in the coming weeks or months.

Or maybe he's just finding out about this today.

You know that while that part I I'm that's I. I can't put any any credence in any of that. That doesn't make any sense to me, But you know,

I'll see you around.

You know, the George Harrison quote, you know, hey guys, it's been fun. I'll see you around the clubs when he quit, the Beatles walked.

Out and you know.

So, I don't know, I don't know. I not saying anything bad. I don't know anything about that. It's just it is interesting that if Danny's been the guy and now other people, the owner and the head coach alluding or making direct comments to Austin Aine is now the guy, then that, you know, just brings up the question that I would have like, and so what happened to the other guy? What what is the deal with the guy who was the guy?

You know what I mean?

So, I don't know that that'll be interesting to hear how that how that plays out.

I wonder if the George Harrison in this dynamic is their current general manager, who also has not been prominently featured in many of these press releases.

Because I don't know how this is gonna work.

I really don't And Xanik at one point was thought to be the next general manager of Milwaukee before that went to Horst.

I think.

And Zanik is a very well respected person across the landscape of basketball and all levels of ecosystems. As a former agent, he could probably get another job if he wanted one. Maybe he just likes living here. And again, we all want to stay employed. So you're not gonna

That's my best guess.

Wow.

Wow, take today, Stephen A.

Smith on the program, I'm going to go out out of lamb and say Collins, now if he doesn't, but he's going to. If he doesn't, they'll have some money to work with. But if he does, which he will, they will not have cap space, believe it or not. Even though the books moving forward are clean, most of the expirings, like John and JC and everybody that's next off season, so they don't have a ton of avenues

It just is yeah.

Well, and again, Spencer, they're going to have the guys you just mentioned, the so called veterans Sexton and Clarkson and the Collins are all on one I have one year left on their deals coming up this next season. So those are an NBA parliams referred to as expiring deals that a lot of teams are interested in because they feel like maybe a player in that situation can help them in the short term without that tea making

So you have to have some kind of balance there.

And so a lot of those trades that you'd like to do, you can't do just because the rules don't let you do it. So a lot of those things you get, you get hampered by. So it's it's it's not an enviable position to be in, other than the Jazz have a lot of flexibility to do a lot of different things, but you have to be able to get those things done, you know.

Uh.

Part of me also says and and again I don't know what their their their final iteration and setup is going to be, but I would think looking at most teams and how they operate and the teams the guys I know are on the league who are still in front offices and in those kinds of positions. Uh, not to take anything away from him, because I'm a I'm an Austin Ainge fan, and and I really like him, and I know he works very hard. But you're taking a call from Austin Ange or you're taking a call

We don't know. Uh, maybe he's the guy who makes those kind of phone calls.

I don't know that. Uh, maybe that stuff is going to be turned over to Austin. If Ryan Smith is accurate or you know, if that's the way they're setting it up for for Austin to be the final guy. Uh, then that that that's That's the thing that's intriguing to me at the moment is is where where Danny uh is in all of this kind of stuff.

Yeah, I would be very curious because Danny I do not believe was made available during this press or. I'm not seeing quote spill in from him looking at the beat Riders covering it. We will play a portion of this press conference coming up in a little bit. Look, man, uh like Oklahoma City. There's a stat that just flashed on ESPN. They're the youngest team as far as average age to play in the NBA Finals since nineteen fifty five, their average age is twenty four point seven years old.

It is tough.

I just don't know what's a realistic expectation. If if the new guy in charge is Austin Age and he is telling the community today last year's approach is nothing we're interested in this year and you add two first round picks to this roster and maybe you find the guy in the second round you think you can play for you and those are your off season maneuvers. Because to the points that we've been talking about, there just aren't a lot of other avenues this offseason for them to get something done.

I'm not saying it's impossible.

I'm saying it's hard for me to see based off the real game changers that may leave their teams. And I'm talking Jannis in Durant and maybe New York does something with Kat, Maybe Boston's new ownership says I'm not interested and riding a five hundred million dollar check just to have the roster. Jay like none of those players will agree to be traded to the Jazz to play for the Utah Jazz based off of where they're at

Well, it's it's a very daunting task. You're going to have to have your young guys really develop and really, you know, make a turn a corner. And what they've been able to do so far in the NBA caun'te George, for example, if he's going to be getting minutes next year, he's got to figure out how to play some defense. He plays no defense right now, but he's got to get better at that. The Collier kid he has to learn how to make some shots from the outside. He

We know Marketing can be that.

We know that we know Kessler can be a standard bearer in the middle, to be a rim protector, to be a shot blocking threat, to be a rebounder in traffic.

But what happens.

You get a taste of a success and all of a sudden, money egos getting the way, and now none of those guys are there. They're long gone their history. Oklahoma City brought in Paul George. That didn't work. He begged his way out, forced his way out. Sam Presty, who's one of the smartest gms going, you know, he said, Hey, the guy doesn't want to be here. I don't want him here if he doesn't want to be here, and so he moved him to the Clippers. He wanted to

Okay.

So we're gonna say that thirty percent of it was us being smart and seventy percent of it was us being lucky. Okay, And that's the deal. Well, Sacramento. Sacramento Drafteddaron Fox. Three years later, they draft Tyreese Halliburton. Now they've got two very good point guards on their roster and they're trying to figure out what do we do with these two guys and what happens Spence. We fast forward to today, they don't have either one of them.

You all right before I set you loose because we ran out of time. This is just going to be really fascinating to watch play out. I am of the opinion based off of the fact that there's a top eight protected pick in the draft next year.

You need that asset.

You have to.

And look, I know that the whole losing intentionally and manipulating lineups is a really difficult thing for a fan base to ask for and or to ask from your fan base. And I have legitimate questions about because the culture thing, I mean, it's real. You want to build a culture in sports and business in life.

I know it's real.

But can you build a culture well, you're unseerious about competing. I have real serious questions about that. So it's a it's a it's a juxtaposition. It's it's an interesting paradox that they're faced with because I do think you need that asset next year. I think you need that pick nex year, and I think you need to put yourself in a similar position that you were in this year to at least have chances. But you're also spinning your wheels if you're unserious about competing when you're trying to

On their roster.

What are you hoping for this offseason for them to come into training camp in the fall to indicate that they are ready to develop in a way that quite frankly, I just haven't seen so far.

Well, you're you're spot on about the culture thing, because what's interesting, Spence's is at the professional level, it's it's very difficult to build a culture when everyone in the in the room is accepting the idea that we're not really serious about winning. That is a difficult thing because what happens is you start builduilding those habits yep, about not winning and that the guys next to me are okay with that and who else, Oh, my bosses seem

A top pick.

Whatever you have to get guys, but then they have to create the culture of winning based on the fact that we're not accepting less than that. And to this point, the Jazz seemed to be accepting that this is their lot to be down at the bottom, and we're not worried about the winning. That scares me because that's something that is hard to manufacture and fabricate, you know, without going through the hard work of doing it.

So this summer is gonna be big for the Jazz. Young guys.

It's going to be interesting to see how they come back in the fall, how many of them are still on the roster. That's gonna be an interesting thing because if Austin Angels is a truder's word about we're not doing that again, then I would think that there's got to be a lot of changing and a lot of different dynamics that go on between now and next October.

Oh dear, well, we'll have to see.

I mean, I continue to remind our listeners, we just were self spoiled so long with just incremental quote unquote rebuilds two to three years, then boom, we're back to having a good team here. And when you look across the landscape, of the NBA. There are plenty of cities and plenty of organizations that have found themselves in a perpetual state of where the Jazz are now decades, not three, four, five years, Charlotte. I think it's been twenty one years

I don't know, man, it's Sacramento sacramental, and to me, that's an owner thing. They had a little blip a couple of years ago. They had a good young team. They had a Coach of the Year Mike Brown, then they fired him, then they fired the general manager, all within a twelve month period. Like, you can't, you know, you can't do things like that and expect that you're

Would help if you had players, But.

You gotta have play That's always. That's always the thing. You have to have players. I remind people all the time. Pat Riley said a great thing when we were playing in the Lakers in the eighties and in a playoff series, and they asking about all these different things they were doing scouting wise, and he finally looked at the reporter and said, well, I don't know if we have any advantage that way.

I think our advantage is that we have Kareem and magic.

Yeah.

You know, if you have Kareem and magic, yeah, I think that's a good place to start.

Okay, for sure. It's many great to see is always. Thanks for the time, and we'll chat SAE. All right, the great Richard Smith. All right, we'll watch out of the final hour of the program coming up in just a bit.

NBA Finals begin on Thursday.

The battle for Lord Stanley's Chop will begin on Wednesday. But big news, kind of unexpected news here in the market. Austin Ainge has been hired as the new basketball president of basketball Operations for the Utah Jazz. Just wrapped up his comments from earlier, So in case you didn't have a chance here, it is Austin Ainge, the new President of basketball Operations for Utah Jazz.

Bid Too.

Announced that Austin Ange will be the new president of Utah Jazz basketball operations. We will open with remarks from Governor Ryan Smith and then turn the time over to Austin before we open up four questions, right.

Yeah, thanks everyone for being here.

Today is a great day for Utah Jazz Basketball. It's an awesome opportunity to welcome Austin Age is our president of basketball operations. We've we've had this role open for some time and we've been very methodical about it, and we're super excited that Austin and his family made a decision to come to Utah. Another bright, brilliant executive that we're bringing to the state and run our basketball program.

So we're excited to have you here.

I think before I kick it over to Austin, I'm sure O there's probably a lot of questions around organizational structure and design. And you know what I've learned in business and also in the NBA that every organization is.

Set up a little different for us.

Austin will be running the program. He's got final recommendation to myself on any decisions that need to be made. I think it's the job of both Justin, Danny and myself to kind of plug into him, and so hopefully that alleviates quite a few questions of who kind of has the final decision on roster and management and personnel. His resume speaks for himself, speaks for itself for seventeen years kind of growing up either playing hoops, scouting, coaching, and particularly on roster management.

I think it couldn't come in a.

Better time for what we're at as an organization, and we're just thrilled. I'm super excited that he's chosen to come back here after playing in Utah for four years, and we're.

Super lucky to have you. So excited to get to work. Man. Thanks I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Ryan.

I just I wanted to kind of explain why I chose to do this, why I'm so excited about this opportunity. The first thing is people Brian and Ashley, their passion, their leadership, their energy, their drive, They really really want to do this right and I couldn't think of better people to partner with. So and then the management of the team and the coaching staff of the team. Obviously, I used to have a share a wall with Will in Boston. We've known each other for a number of

I'd love to try to take that success right now.

And there's a whole great group of management people here.

Some of them are right here with us.

A lot of people I've known for since they were nineteen, Avery Bradley and other others. Anyway, a lot of great people. The next thing is the state and specifically the fans. The passion here it's not common, it's not everywhere in this NBA, and that passion is so infectious, and it pushes a team, it pushes a franchise, It holds us accountable, it puts pressure, good pressure to succeed. And that was a huge, huge draw for me. And then lastly, the

To pull the thing.

But gets a question, please raise your hands and then also announce your game and outlets of Austin.

You get to know you, Ryan millerksel dot com Austin. You're coming in in the middle of a rebuild kind of how do you approach that? On how they've done things in the past and how firstus how you want to do things in the future.

Well, I'm learning a little bit how they did things in the past, but and I'll just try to add what I can. But it's really, uh, there's a lot of ways you can execute it, but mostly it's just making a lot of good decisions over and over and over.

Right.

Two ways, second round picks, first round picks, trades, free agency. It's just making good decisions, stacking up good players so you have more to work with. That's really the job. And so whether you're in the middle, the beginning or the end of building a team, that's what you're doing every day, trying to make good decisions and so that's what we'll.

Try to do.

Dana Green with ABC for Ryan just said, you're gonna have final say and personnel decisions, but how will you consult Justin and your father about making those decisions and then maybe just discuss the dynamic you have with Danny and how you've worked together and what that dynamic.

Is Like Yeah, I mean you know it.

I plan on including da Justin, Will and lots of people here, everyone like this is a This is a team sport, both downstairs and upstairs, right, this is this is.

A team thing. Ryan will be super involved in everything. Of course.

This is where we're gonna have millions of conversations and argue and fight and research and work and watch and then get in a room and figure it out, you know. And that's that's really how it works in all these world organizations. And I mean, you know, specifically with my father, we've we've been doing this since I you know a kid, even you know, working with together or separate teams, or before either of us were working with teams, talking about players, talking about ball.

That's that's life. That's fun.

Ben Anderson KSL Sports. Do you have austin an approach to how to build teams in the NBA of what you think is winning right now, where the league is headed, and how attainable that is.

Well, I can't tell you all the secrets.

No, I mean, I really believe that It is kind of a boring answer, but I really believe it's just stacking good decisions one on top of the other. And you know a lot of times people see the big trade or the you know, big move, that big free agent signing or something as the end, but really that requires lots of diligent management to build up to that point, right, And so it's just about stacking good decisions together.

And that's what we're gonna try to do.

Ryan Miller KSL dot com. Uh, what was the process like of getting this job? When did you get first contact each other? Well, yeah, kind of just take take us through that whole thing.

Brian, Do you want to do that one you want me to do? We can both do it when it can start.

I got a text from Ryan it said, hey call me or hey I got a question.

Can you call me? You know, and uh, actually I was in a meeting with.

New Celtics ownership for two hours planning their entire offseason and I got I gotta I got a text, so I couldn't respond for a while. When I got out, I called him and it was kind of an interesting conversation.

I'll even let you take it for yeah, Like I.

Think for me, it's something that that we had always thought about within the organization with with this role. You know, when Danny came in, he was very clear that he did not want to be the president of basketball operations, and that's.

The role that he had.

He wanted to be able to choose his spots at this phase of his career, but still had a lot to offer and value. And Danny can play business with us till he's eighty five, and Michelle doesn't want him in the house anymore. Whatever it is like, And you know, when you have a Hall of Famer that's around, you know, whether it's last week watching him post up Cody Williams down there, or like whatever it is where he wants to go. You know, I've always kind of wanted to

The organization in the NBA, just with their roles and how they did it. So it's been something that had been on my mind. But really it came to.

A conversation with me and Ashley and some of the folks in our group and said, you know, who would you go get?

What would you do?

And I kept coming back to Austin the challenges. I had no clue how Austin well. And you know, they've been in a pretty epic championship window.

It's clear where his role was and when he meant to that organization.

It was also very clear that not only at the beginning of last year, but this summer, his name was starting to float around and a lot of these other opportunities to run teams. And you know, kind of had to pit my stomach last year when I saw that because I always.

Had this back of my head.

He really needed to know that I felt that way, and I don't think that he'd ever known that. So I called him and told him how I felt and how I saw this, and he called me back after that meeting, said he can't get this out of my head. Was this something that you would think about now? I was like, whenever you're ready, And called me back the next morning and.

Said he was kind of said, like, if we're going to do this like now, is that I.

Want to be a part of.

These are big decisions coming up, and if this is something we want to talk about, it.

Now feels like the right So the biggest the biggest challenge for me was I had to call Danny, who was not and down said I hired your son, and Danny I had built a lot of trusts over the last fifteen years and I didn't know at that point whether I had completely lost all trusts or he was going to say that was the right move. But well, here we are, and so I couldn't be more excited. And then just knowing jay z and and how much of a team player and how how great their skill

I've never been part.

Of the decision in the league where it's not a group and a team effort, just like we're trying to build on the court.

And so I'm really excited.

We got better, the Jazz got better with this move, and I'm really excited for.

It going forward. So that's kind of how it happened.

You know, Fortunately Austin felt as good about our situation as I felt about him, and things happened quick, and so I also would be remissed if I didn't think Brad Stevens and the Celtics because when I called Brad just the way he handled it, knowing that that was probably not an easy call for him to receive, given where they're at and what Austin into that organization.

He was also so excited and saying that it.

Was the best part of his job that he gets to see this and that that was a super smart move. And he hopes that Austin still feels as strongly about the trades with you doz he did from this side.

So he tried to negotiate with me on like immediately great great, as Da did when he left and came here.

Yes, Ben Anderson KL Sports, you mentioned big decisions coming up, like in the next three weeks. You've got a top five pick and you can start negotiating extensions for some of the players.

Are you it's three weeks enough.

Time to have intopend knowledge of like what going on? They said, you know, the Celtics are picking what twenty eighth or whatever it is, correct, Yeah, how familiar with a fifth pick and then the players already on this roster.

Yeah, I mean luckily, you know, I've always believed and we've always done it where you evaluate everyone, you know, the whole draft it is. You never know what trades come in on the clock, and so I've definitely spent a lot of time.

I interviewed most of these young players at.

The combine already, I've put in the time all year on these guys.

So I feel prepared.

But certainly, well, we'll crunch and I can't wait to learn from all the great people in the jazz organization and get their input and think through it big decisions. There'll be trade conversations, all all these things. It's a very active time of year, so we got a lot to prepare for.

David Lockjazz Radio. Seems as though this season may have been.

The first time where the new collective barging griment really began to put a stamp on the league and roster building. What did you learn from watching how the first season of this new collective part agreement had an impact on how you roster build now.

Yeah, that's a great question, David it's it's subtle differences.

You know, it's still talent and teamwork and you know, all the same things there. I think some extensions and other contracts will be negotiated a little stronger. Bird rights used to matter a little bit more, to get a little bit.

Into the weeds on this stuff. But I think.

There's uh, it's a it's a firmer cap, right, and so every dollar matters a little more.

We used to care a lot about expiring contracts.

We used to care a lot about holding on to players for potential trades, and really now the trades are easier and it's more about the space and the room under the aprons. So that's the short answer.

Dana Green, ABC four.

Perception of this current jazz team and how far away are they from becoming allegitate playoff contender.

It's a great question.

I you know, it'll just depend on how these guys develop and what other moves we make, right, It's a it's a hard thing to predict.

I think it's fair to say we got a lot of work to do.

Hi, Austin Lauren Green, sideline reporter here at the Utah Jazz. It's nice to meet you. You mentioned the situation of the team, a ton of optionality as well in the upcoming years. What excites you about that and just being in that battle with the different people who are in this room and just in this organization.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of moves right when you have a treasure trove of assets, there's a lot of things you can do. And we have young players we're excited about and see how they develop.

There. There's a lot of different ways to go hopefully up.

Sean O'Connell ESPN seven hundred, as someone correctly stated, seems like a team in a rebuild, and some things were done this past season to potentially manipulate where the team would end up in the draft lottery odds, and unfortunately, some of that is dependent on luck, and the team

Won't see that this year.

Jb JP Chuga Utah Jazz dot com.

Ryan.

When you look at the front office editions, Austin meant mentioned Avery Bradley bringing in Danny.

How have you seen the front office.

And the executive part add to the pool of talent that you already inherited with ownership.

Yeah, I mean, I think anytime, and just like they're going to go through and in Boston, any you kind of come in, you're you're starting over a little bit because you kind of sit down. It's actually a weird experience when you come in for the first time and take over because you really didn't choose anyone that's there.

With your connections to utub and put at b yu, is this a dream job for you?

And what was that first conversation with your father after you accepted the position? This is a dream. I mean, I've worked for a lot of years to to have the opportunity to lead lead a team, right.

This is kind of was the next evolution for.

Me in my career and it it we always, you know, in the basketball business, we always say ownership is the most important advantage and so be able to do this in Utah with Ryan and Ashley is very much a dream.

Uh.

You know, Da and I have talked, you know, many multiple times a week forever and he just I can't remember, said something like this is awesome.

It's gonna be so fun, you know. Kevin round Stelly tribute. This one's to Ryan with how the draft lottery played out.

Does that change your approach to the rebuild and change your thinking on the rebuild at all, or are you guys gonna stick the course.

I think Austin kind of answered that.

I mean, I think, you know, we've got smart people around the table and they'll look at all the optionality that's that's in front of us, But you know we're gonna get a great player if we draft at five. So I think that I think that's kind of missed and all this. As disappointed as everyone was not to get the number one pick, I think, you know, maybe something that.

Isn't talked about enough as the.

Talent that's in this draft, and we'll be prepared if you look at the playoffs and look at all the best players in the NBA and how many of them went number one.

It's it's better to have number one, but there's a lot of other stars that came from all over the draft, and certainly the Jazz have a long history of second rounders that have become All Stars, and you know, so it's not the only way to do it.

James Peterson, ESPN seven hundred. There's a perception Austin that there's certain ways you can't build a team in Utah, which I'm sure you're aware of that perception. You obviously had a lot of success building it the way you did in Boston, you and your team there. That said, how much of how you went about roster construction there?

Do you feel like you can dupicate here in Utah?

I think it's the same, Honestly. I think this is a great place, and I think you build it the right way, like I said, stacking good decisions.

Over and over and over.

And players want hope, they want to win, they want great culture, they want great coaching, they want great teammates. So that's what we have to give them.

Dane Degreen, ABC four for Ryan, can you define Justin's Annix's role with the organization?

Now?

After this, Justin's the GM of the organization. His role hasn't changed at all. And you know, I actually think that if you think about the skill set that Austin has and you know jay Z's skill set, they actually work really well. I mean Austin, Austin came up from player coach heavily, heavily in the scouting and talent evaluation

I'm sorry, did I hear applause after Austin's opening comments were people clapping?

Correct?

I think there was like a some sort of like a Friends of the Jazz or maybe some sort of gallery I've been Unless that was Tony Jones and co, I.

Would Tony's just given him, just giving him, like the Arsenio Hall. I've been listening in NBA press conferences for thirty years, if now more. I don't know that I've ever heard applause after. I don't know that's an It was a little.

Weird Alex Jensen like intro that was like a presser in an event like that. Stuff like that for sure. But yeah, I thought the jazz thing was the immediate event.

I don't know.

Okay, all right, there uh ESPN seven under sports dot Com. If you missed any of Austin Age's comments or Danny Ainge's comments, excuse me, h Ryan Smith, Danny Ainge not available. Justin Zanik not available. Penny for Justin Xanix's thoughts is all I'm gonna say.

All right, really pumped for tonight.

Game seven, Knicks, Pacers, Madison, Square Garden who wait.

In some reality?

Yeah, and you know what man like not like not like it went down, you know, like not don't lay an egg with an elimination game in front of you, where in a building we know you can win in we've already seen it and the team that look, you just have to give it to the Pacers.

They were a better They deserve to march on. I don't know what.

I don't know what the Knicks do, because I do think it's a good group and they're signed. I think Kat's eligible or no, Michael's eligible for an extension. I know he's taking a lot of heat. But with how desolate it's been there for so long, I think I think it was fun.

I just didn't. I did not love the way they went out. I thought it was very disappointing.

Now the way the way the way they went out was ugly in the basketball Number one, the sloppiness they played with the comeback loss. Right, Obviously, it was cool they did it on the flip side against the Boston Celtics, But when you go out the way they did it always going to leave a bitter taste in your mouth, and for me especially, it hurts a little more when I, you know, I look at the NBA, look at the landscape of the league, and while I think that OKAYC

And you know there's a reason why after Game one I cracked the mic and the first thing I said about that game was that's.

Really hard to come back from.

Yeah, that game one loss was not a close battle where it could have gone either way. You had that so in your back pocket. And when you lose a game where it's a soul crushing defeat, I mean, losing home court is one thing, but these two teams are both really good on the road, so I wasn't necessarily like, oh, they lost home court. I was like, wow, because the Jalen Brunson will be eighty five years old and he'll be trying to sleep one night and they'll be like, dude,

I think I mentioned it the night after, right I And I actually mentioned it the night after the nixt one Game one against the Celtics. If you recall, I said, I, you know, Spence, I think we won the series based on how we beat Boston in that game, in that comeback, and I also mentioned that day.

Cleveland in the in the finals.

Right, you go back to what twenty fourteen, twenty and twenty seventeen, Actually j R. Smith forgets that they missed a free throw, and you know, Lebron has a fifty whatever point triple double and they lose because Smith just forgets time to score. Situation, and the way they lost that game, I thought they lost the series. Those three game one moments to me stand out in situations where although you never take too much stock in one of

And they did yep. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough.

So big news of the day today, Austin Ange has been hired as the new president of basketball Operations for the Utah Jazz. If you missed Austin's press conference, where he received a standing ovation after his intro, you can go to ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. Stanley Cup Finals begins on Wednesday. NBA Finals begin on Thursday, and we are your home for both of those events in the market here on ESPN seven hundred. All right, Porter,

On a Tuesday edition of The Drive, we will of course recap the Austin Age press or, the debut of the new Jazz president of basketball operations, and talk some NBA finals with Tim McMahon for the NBA Daily Assist on the Jazz side, Sarah Todd stops by the program fresh off a good old long sabbatical. Dave Fox stops by on a Tuesday and talking tomorrow as well as well as that's been not great.

Ooh ooh, not great, Bob, not great. Hopefully they can turn it around. All right, we'll say goodnight special thank you today, Kyle Bonnagura, Tom Haberstrow and the great Richard Smith for any of the saund you may have missed from the show today. ESPN seven hundred Sports dot Com is your home for that. Also, downloader mobile app ticus on the go so I listen to our astation. ESPN seven hundred app is available App Store, Google play Store for free. And then for what we do in our space,

It helps.

Reporter I'm spent saying tonight. Enjoy your Monday evening. We'll talk to you on a Tuesday edition of The Driving. It's always you can find it right here on ESPN seven hundred and ninety two ANDFM. We are proud to be part of Utah's ESPN Radio network.