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You on a Monday, but we're recapping the first round of the NFL Draft. We'll hand it over to the second round in the five PM hour talking some PGA Tour, NBA playoffs, and more. Our next guest will switch gears a little bit and talk some NBA playoffs, Jazz offseason, and go from there. It is Zach Harper at Talk Hoops. Zach, how are we?
My friend?
Of the playoffs is always exhausting, but thankfully we had some of these teams willing to bow out early to ease up the schedule on some of us.
I was gonna say, there's there's a few series that are Last night it was it was looking iffy with Memphis and Oklahoma City, but a big comeback by the Thunder to kind of keep that one. I would say, decided three to zero lead for Oklahoma City. So no no questions there, Zach. First off, I do gotta ask what is your what does your playoff coverage look like? Obviously, the the eighty two game slate to me, feels longer
and longer every year. It feels like getting through the regular season is less of fun and more of a chore to get to the postseason. It seems like this is more accurate year by year. What changes for you serious XM doing the the NBA stuff once we really get in zero dark thirty motives? I think Lebron used to call it playoff playoff time. What's it looked like for Zach Harper?
I think this might be a perspective thing when you're when you're dealing with like a teardown and then a rebuild versus like, you know.
Just covering everything.
I think it gets longer when you're dealing with, you know, a sixteen win team versus dealing with everybody. Because I felt like the season flew by this year for me, where and sometimes it feels like a little bit of a slog at certain points, but I felt like it flew by and then all of a sudden, it was
the playoffs. It's weird because you know, we have a lot a lot fewer games now, obviously, but it's it's felt so intense over this last week that I feel like I'm working more even though I'm working way less and.
So I've been more.
Exhausted, and I don't know why. I think it might just be more emotionally invested in all of this for some reason. Also, you know they're horseheads now involved in this with thanks to the wall at the Into It Dome, and that's that's kind of terrifying. It's you know, Godfather, you know, flashbacks and everything.
So I just I think.
The intensity of it all, seeing Kawhi Leonard back, seeing what Denver has gone through, seeing comebacks, and seeing the intensity of what like Nick's pissed, is like the coverage it feels more tiring to me now than the regular season. Regular season was actually kind of a breeze this year for some reason.
Well, like I've talked a Will Hardy about this a lot too. Like just playoff basketball is a different thing. Like the amount of like matchup changes and adjustments and teams going into different zone coverages and shading off the guys. I mean, it just is tactically a different thing. And so like for me watching playoff basketball, it's really fun to notice all of those things on a possession by
possession level. But like also it's a lot more taxing because you're just there is so much going on at a strategic level that is just you know, you don't usually see in the regular season, say for like a few matchups every year.
Yeah, and it feels like you like in the coverage of it, you have to recognize it quicker and pay attention. Like it almost feels like you're you're deeper into these series covering it where you know, when when the when the Clippers go into kind of the zone, or you know, they're playing Ben Simmons at center now, and so you have to see, like, well, how are they going to defend Yokis with this? And he's just not going to
murder everybody. And so when you're trying to figure out how they're covering this thing, or you're figuring out when you know, the Pistons go into kind of a pseudo zone against the Knicks whatever, like you're you're trying to figure out in real time, and it's you know, me, I'm a lazy person. So this is an exhausting formation.
Let's talk about that. Where these playoffs are your stand I mean to me, I guess maybe the easiest way to look at it is which of these series are over and we're just waiting for them to play out and which of them are still competitive and could go either way.
Yeah, I think we can call it on Calves heat. I think we can call it on Celtics Magic. I think we can call it on obviously on thunder Grizzlies, you know, especially thunder Grizzlies, like maybe the Heat grab a game. Maybe maybe the magic grab a game because the injuries that the Celtics are dealing with, But I
think all those are are done. The Rockets Warriors one is probably the most interesting to me because this Warrior's team wasn't any good for fifty one change, you know, like they were just kind of an average team with Steph Curry being awesome and Draymond Green being really good, and then Jimmy comes and now it's, oh my god,
like this team could maybe win a title. Like you start seeing, you know, this this thing forming in front of your eyes, and all the stuff that Jimmy's done over the last five years and making Miami, you know, relevant on a playoff level, and obviously what the Warriors are capable of doing when they.
Have a third guy with Steph and.
Draymond, and so you see all that, you know, happening in a short amount of time. You're trying to figure out is this just a bump or is this like a championship contender bump in a really good conference. And then on the other side of that, it's a Houston team that is too young to realistically do anything in the playoffs. And at the same time, that defense is so elite and they do have stuff to kind of
blow up what Golden State wants to do. And then Jimmy takes that hard fall in Game two, and now you don't know what.
It's going to be.
You don't know, you know what his pelvit contusion is going to do to affect the series. So I went from thinking, I think the Warriors can win the West two we don't know if they're gonna get out of the first round. And so I think that's super intriguing. I think the Clippers taking that, you know, the Clippers forever it was ah, they can be healthy. You know, we've we've done that conversation so many times that it's the boy who cried wolf, And now I think it's
an actual situation where they're healthy. I've been saying for years, like I think Kawhi Leonard's season should like they should just hold him out until January first, right, like all that load management stuff is. You know, he's been the poster boy port but it's not that he doesn't want to play. It's that he's hurt. It's at his knee
and his body can't hold up. And so he's his season, you know, at least for a game started on January fourth this year, and look at him, like, this team looks legitimately great, and so I think like they can, you know, maybe dispatch Denver quicker than we thought. And I think those two are the most intriguing series out there because of just just how many different ways they can go.
What options does Denver really have. It seems like they've kind of thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall. Obviously a new head coach in the last month, which doesn't make playoff adjustments over the course of a seven game series all that easy. But it just seems like
the Clippers have all the cards in this series. And and for Denver, you're kind of just waiting and hoping that Nikolayokich has forty point triple doubles and keeps you in these How do you see the remainder of maybe scheme shifts happening over these next four games.
Yeah, I mean it's it's tough. Like I think their best option is just Yokic is great, but great in a way that gets Zubos into sound trouble early, right, Like, like I don't I still don't know how many people know outside of you know, LA and basketball, and there's like how many people know how great Zubots has been this year, Like he's truly been an elite center, especially defensively, and so if he gets into foul trouble, like they really it's Ben Simmons and it's you know, whatever's left
of Drew Eubanks, Like that's those are their options regarding Jokic, And so if you can get Zubos into foul trouble early, then I do think it sets off, you know, a chain of events throughout the rest of the game where
the Clippers really have to scramble. But if that doesn't happen, then you're just trying to match Toron Lou you know, schematically throughout And yeah, like if Aaron Gordon's hitting corner threes and if Michael Porter Junior is engaged and Jamal Murray has that two man game going, and you know, Christian Brown's like out in transition, Like, yeah, there's stuff that they do really well. And we saw in the
first two games how even that matchup can look. But I still think we need to remember, like this team was a mess a month ago, right, Like this team was such a mess they fired their coach with three games to go, such a mess internally, and like the Wings were coming in because you Kis is the best player in the world, but you can, like they're not a deep team. You can you can pull on that thread and get them to fray. And so it's possible Jokicic just is a superhero and pulls them through the
round and beats a really good Clippers team. And it's also possible they lose the next two games and all that craft from the owner, you know, saying I want them to play with joy and we got to rediscover our joy, Like this isn't eighth grade basketball, like this is this is the NBA, Like this isn't I just don't think they really understood what they were doing. If you want to fire Michael Malone, fine through the All
Star break, or do it when you're eliminated. Like doing it when they did it is just does it doesn't make sense?
Yeah, I mean do it when you first had starting having those conversations with him and his coaching staff and everyone else, like at the in the off season. But anyway, Zach, did you have a did you have a vote this year?
I did? Cool? So did I.
So that's fun. I had spots they did.
They didn't ask the college football pre game hosts.
I had Zubats on my All NBA third team this year. Like he's been that good and that critical for uh for what the Clippers do, and he is, like the advanced stats love him. The advanced stats have him as like the top twenty player in the league.
Yeah he didn't.
He didn't make my l NBA thirteen, but he was one of the first ones left off like he that was a really tough mission for me. He was, he was my most improved player. He was All Defense second team for me. I mean, he's just spectacular, like I he he didn't just anchor one of the best defense in the league. They run so much offense through him right like and through secondary actions and he's a good playmaker for them. It's not just all right, you know
we're gonna dump it off to you. Let's let's finish high and and keep your hands tie and everything. Like, he is an exceptional big man who whether it's whether it's advanced stats, whether it's the eye test, I mean he is. He's one of the five six best big men in the league this year. I mean he's been he's been incredible. And I don't think, I don't think it's crazy to to say he's he's all NBA thirteen. Like I was right there and just ended up edging
a couple of people over him. But yeah, I mean I think, you know, I thought Norm Powell should have been their All Star.
Over James Harden. But if you're gonna.
Tell, you know, ask me who was their best player all year? It's easily Zoobots for the entirety of the season. I mean he's he's been the guy that's carried them.
Yeah, it's and you know, carry them to where they are in the West. Speaking of awards, I want to ask you one kind of general question based on what we learned yesterday, and then a jazz specific question. Who did you end up voting for a DPO.
Why?
For me?
I took Aman Thompson.
I took Mobiley. I just thought wired to wire.
You know, it was crazy to me when when when he was still the option right before his season was ended. He was such a heavy betting favorite. And look, he was great, don't get me wrong. Like the block number. He still led the league in total blocks despite missing the last two months. Like that's how far ahead he was. He still led the league in total blocks. He was great defensively, but he would go through waves even throughout
games where he was just slow. The effort was, you know, he was kind of still learning how to keep his energy high. I thought Mobley was right there with him throughout that entire season until Wemby's season ended. It's really hard for me to give it to a guard, give it to a wing over a big man because of the responsibilities. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just really hard.
I thought Thompson.
Was great, he's all He's on my All Defense first team. But I just thought Mobley had the most consistent season throughout because of the responsibilities, because of what he meant like in the past past seasons, it was he was really good defensively. But if Jared Jared Allen was on the floor, you know, they fell off a cliff defensively.
Now it's the opposite.
Now it doesn't matter if Jared Allen's on the floor, they're great defensively when he's on, and then if if he's off the floor and Jared Allen's on, they're like, they're terrible. So I just I thought that that consistency throughout it just belonged to motly. But but I like, I don't have a problem with Doan Thompson getting votes like he was.
He was awesome, and it like for me it was eva mob we played so well and the Cavs defense was so great at the beginning of the year and then just kind of fell off a little bit at the end of the year. Yeah, that that, you know, kind of pushed me to go and end up in a different direction. But and then the kind of the Jazz Award question I wanted to ask, is all rookies second team or heck first team? Did you give any
consideration to Kyle Philipowski or Isaiah Collier. Uh, the two rookies here that I thought had a had a realistic shot at it.
I didn't really consider Philipowski I just I like, he was fine, but I didn't think, like for the entire of the season that he was really in the mix with.
The other guys.
I thought he had, you know, a good push at the end, but I just I didn't think it was consistent enough. Collier, for sure was was in the mix for me. I'm trying to remember if I picked him man, Like I'm looking, I'm looking it up because I know he was. He was on the edge for me at the at the end, and I'm I'm trying to fill time as I get to the same that the downloaded a full time for you.
Like, So the way this works is you get we got this media ballot, and we had like sixteen hours to actually fill it out, so which is actually not a ton of time. And then once you fill it out, and like for me, I like crammed into the last ten minutes, right, So I'm I'm trying to fill out all these form fields in the last ten minutes and I finally get it in at like four oh one. I'm not even trying made the deadline. And then once it's done, it gives you like a PDF at the
end so you can save and remember your results. For moments like this when you talk about him on the radio later. But I mean it's like that, the fifty different players to you know, fifty different slots to choose from here, no joke, And so I absolutely do not blame you for not remembering your all rookie second team and the worst you know, rookie class in recent memory.
Yeah.
Yeah, No, my last two spots because it was between three guys, and Kyllier was was one of those three guys. But my last two spots did go to Bub Carrington and it went to Donovan Klingon. I thought Klingon had had a slow start to the year, but I thought he was excellent the second half of the season just for what they needed him to do, Like they were pretty good defensively, and they were good when he was on the floor. I know Bub Carrington didn't shoot well.
I thought he played really well, and I know the Wizards were disaster, but I actually thought.
Like when he was on the.
Court for what they were trying to do development wise, I thought he was really important to how the rest of the young players played. Kyllier was really was really good distributing the ball. I didn't see a whole lot outside of that, right, and I don't know if I can just give it based on like he racked up some assists, I know, like the whole angle of oh Brooke John Stockton's record, which sounds great until you, like
you put some context to it. I think if Collier had had thrown, I think Collier Collier had you know, just been a little bit more consistent making shots throughout the year, some of the decision making had been better throughout the year. I think he I think he gets that spot over Carrington. I think Klingon probably makes it no matter what, but it was right there between between those three for those last two spots.
I will say this, Bob Carrington is a legend here in Utah because of him making the game winner in Game eighteen and pushing the Jazz down to be the worst team in the league, guaranteeing the top five pick in this year's draft.
Yeah, I mean, I think I think if you if that puts him over the top for Collier All Rookie second Team, I think you've got to think. I think Jazz fans will take that.
Right honorary Jazz Man for life.
Yeah, Carrington.
The other the other tough part about these like full season awards, is that you're, especially in today's age, you're being asked to evaluate players based on an eighty two game regular season slate where a lot of the best players, literally a lot of the best players are waiting until game fifty sixty seventy to really turn it on. Which I've always thought the all the All NBA, the MVP, like the big awards, should be like a full season
thing after postseason. But that's a different conversation, Zach. I do want to I do want to ask a kind of a two parter relating to this, the the MVP Award. I think it's Shay's. We'll see how it goes. I do want to ask you how that how that broke down in your ballot. But it's it's a two part question because I want to I want to get your read yes on the MVP Award, but also on another debate, another conversation around uh, who might be the best player
in the world today? Because I listen, I know nikolea. Jokic has held that crown, I think kind of undisputedly for the last couple of years. Before that, it, if we're being honest, was probably fifteen years of Lebron James and right now, as of today, you know, you know, Nicola still has a really really good argument. I don't know if the way he played defense pretty much all year can really allow you to give him that label.
But I'll just lay it out for you. Who is your MVP and who is as of today twenty twenty five, the best basketball player of the planet, because those are two different things.
Yeah, Shaye won MVP for me. I like, look, Jokic was phenomenal. He had a historic season. Shay also had a historic season. No one, no one's ever had the
season that Shay had, and that's yeh. Something that I've tried to keep into context is every time I had a conversation with someone, whether in the league, whether friends, whether colleagues, whatever, people like, man, but jokicch no one's ever done this, I'm like, yeah, but no one's ever done what she's doing, right, And so it's it's just different. Like a thirty point triple double, this is incredible.
Like the shooting numbers, the.
Three point percent, Yeah, it's all great, Like, don't get me wrong, but when you also break down what she's doing, we're going to talk about historic seasons. We like it all matters, right, Like, so it's just valuing certain things in certain ways. And to me, I didn't really fault Jokic for the defense. I don't really put that on him,
like he had so much responsibility. He's become a good defender, he had so much responsibility trying to drag a poorly put together team with so many injuries through that Aaron Gordon played forty eight games, like there's only so much he can do, right, And I just didn't like, I didn't put like he's proven at this point in the last three four years he's a good defender, Like he used to be an atrocious defender.
He's a good.
Defender now, not even like he can get by, Like he's a good defender. I didn't put that on him this year, So I didn't I didn't penalize him for that. Something I've gotten away from the last two years is that hypothetical stuff of like if you swapped them, hif
you did it, Like those are dumb. Those are dumb arguments to me, Like if you want to do that, that's fine, but I no longer do that, because like what we should just deal with what's in front of us, the reality, right, Like, that's how I'm I'm choosing to do it from now on, like and because it just it it brings in too much muddying of the waters and murkiness and everything, and I just like, we've got enough to to parse with this. I don't need to bring in fantasy way of what if, what if?
Left and right?
And so to me, I felt like they were pretty much even as players and season or seasons that they were having, just in very different ways. And so then what's the tiebreaker? I think Shae's team won.
Eighteen more games.
Yeah, Like, so it's like if that, if the players are pretty much equal in terms of the seasons they're having, then ty goes to who's had more team success because that should matter, Like that should matter on some level. And so to me, that's the reason Shay got it over Yokic is because I do think we should reward winning and I do think that has to matter on some level. As in terms of like who's the best player in the world.
It's Jokic. It's not close.
It's just like I don't know, I don't know anyone who can do what he does. I don't think Giannis is close. I don't think Shay's close. I don't think any of these guys are close. You know, it'll be Wendy couple of years, but it's not him yet. I just I don't know how anybody affects the game the way that he does. Like it is, he is the strongest player in the league. He is maybe the most skilled player in the league. He's the best shot maker
in the league. He's arguably the best passer in the league. In the league, you know, with some pretty elite all time passers. I mean, he is just special in every single way. He's become an elite three point shooter. The way that you stop him is if you you destroy the team he plays for in the eight minutes he doesn't play like that's how you beat him, Like that's that's how good he is. Like, I just I don't think there.
I don't.
I don't think the defensive slippage this year is because he can't do it anymore. I think it's because he's a huge Like we stretch, we put him to the limits of his of his being a human.
Yeah, Zach, one more question before we gets you out of here. We'll get back to a little bit of playoffs and set you loose. You're la guy now, but of course got some some history in Minnesota. That series is tied at one to one. They're back in action tonight seven thirty pm Mountain Time. It feels like in the second half of Game one, and of course in Game two, the Lakers really found something defensively against Anthony Edwards.
And once you solve that, it seems like you got a pretty good recipe to beat Uh Minnesota, Is that how you saw it playing out? And and uh, what's the what's the next move from Minnesota to try to reverse that?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they found something. I think a lot of that is just early recognized, early recognition decision making, and not just with ant but as he makes that initial pass, the Wolves just have to move right like they have to They have to be on the move catching the ball, have already made the decision of what they're doing. Like it's all about just kind of these early decisions or these predecisions. As as they can't react to what's going on, they have to be proactive. When
they're proactive, they demolish everybody. Like they're so proactive when they play Denver because they seem to know what Denver is going to do next defensively, and so it's why they're so successful against them. I think they can get there against the Lakers in the series, but they can't.
Wait four or five games to do it.
They did it in Game one for the most part, and they looked great. I think the key is still how they utilize their size. They were bullies. They were bigger. I mean, they are bigger than LA, but they were bullies in Game one. They were physical, and they utilize that to their advantage. You know, you don't just, like obviously, just go post up Rudy against anybody because he's bigger.
It's going to come with like backtaps on offensive rebounds and keeping possessions alive and the scramble that that creates at the three point line and how they knock those down and everything. If they don't turn the ball over, I don't think the Lakers can keep them from scoring efficiently. And then in that case, it's just, you know, can you end those possessions enough on the other end, which I think they can because their defenses is still really elite.
I think whoever wins tonight is going to win the series. I think it's probably gonna go six er or it's I think it's most likely gonna go seven. But I think whoever wins tonight will have control of the series. We do know that Minnesota is really good at keeping that that calm throughout a series if it's going back and forth. We saw that against Denver. I do think Anthony Edwards with his three point shot is a different
animal than what we saw last year against Dallas. But Luca loves the torture Rudy, So you know, that's the factor that I don't know that Minnesota.
Can solve yet.
That is Zach Harper. You can find him at Talk Hoops and find them, I'm sure doing a bunch of serious XM satellite radio stuff. Of course Cinophobe with with our other friends here on the network. Zach, let the folks know what's what's to be released in the near future. Maybe just a playoff coverage've gotten in the next couple weeks.
Oh Man. Subscribe to The Bounce.
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Zach Harper appreciate your.
Time, dude. Thanks, Thank you guys any time.
Always fun chatting with our guys. Zach Harper of The Athletic always appreciate his time.