The Sad News Today.
Brian Wilson, songwriter and lead singer the Beach Boys, died at the age of eighty two. My first concert of my life Beach Boys, Paramount Theater, New York. I was I think eleven years old. Brian Wilson was not with the group. In fact, I think it was only two of the founding members, and in order to keep the audience attention, they marched out like twelve scantily clad women in bikinis.
My father was covering my eyes the whole time.
Yeah, it's cool. It is the Beach Boys, I guess technically, But like I have friends that are my age that like, say, they've hit seen the Grateful Dead.
Yeah, does it count if Jerry wasn't there, And does it count seeing the Beach Boys of Brian Wilson was not present.
I'm not sure that it does.
Maybe a little more of my generation, but it's like sublime with the other guy.
Yeah, it's not the same.
I think Kevin Loves Uncle is in the band and he was there. I think it's Mike Love Anyway, nobody gives a rip. Tom Haberstrow Wednesday afternoon. All right, Tom, right off the top, first concert that you ever in your life.
Jack Johnson, Ben Harper at Central Park.
Very nice, very nice, very Northeast.
Loved that, and they were I mean, what year was that, because that must have been when those two were just kind of at their peak.
I want to say it was like two thousand and three, something like that. I remember taking the train into New York with my buddies and just it was. It was an incredible night. And I don't think any of us, even if we didn't partake in anything, I don't think you'd come home from a concert.
Like that sober.
It's just in the air everywhere, So that that was an experience I would say with a Beach Boys. I always come back to the Beach Boys as maybe the greatest American band ever rock and roll as a genre. If you were to point to what is the greatest rock and roll band in American history, I think people might throw out Pearl Jam or Aero Smith or something of that caliber or genre. But I think the Beach Boys might have a stake to that claim. And I don't know if you guys had any thoughts on that.
Yeah, I don't know that you're wrong.
I mean, my bias brain goes to DMB, but that's not a popular answer. I think grateful Dead the Doors, Tom Petty Eagles.
You referenced Darrow Smith.
If you want to go like hipster Howard Beck, you could talk r em.
But it.
Might be the Beach Boys. Tom, you might be right about that. I don't know that I have much a problem with that.
Yeah, in terms of influence and the ingenuity of what they were doing, and I think it was kind of just I don't know innovation is the right word here, but the sound was unlike anything we'd heard. And so I think it's been a tough week in music. And I would say Brian Wilson passing away, that's a tough one. But the old debate about what is the greatest American rock and roll band or band, I think Beach Boys deserve a spot in that conversation.
I think you're correct, and certainly on this day today, I will not push back. I know van Halen for some probably's in the conversation. I was never a big van Halen guy. But anyway, Tom, we can make our way over to a little basketball. We'll start with the finals. I do have a couple of jazz questions we'll save
those for the end. You know, every game day in the finals and certainly leading up to the game as well, when you listen to the debate shows or listen to NBA pods, you know, people on the pacer side of things will say, this is.
All about Halliburton.
You know, there's seven and one when he scores twenty or more points in the playoffs, and during those games he just scores twenty or more, he also averages around ten as sis And I want to be clear, I'm not saying it's not about Halliburton. It's just not about him entirely based off of the defensive perimeter prowess of OKC. They shut down Jamal Murray, they shut down Anthony Edward, Words and Tom the players that toward the Knicks for the most part, have not been the same players over
the first two games in the NBA Finals. So let's start with Indiana side and your opinion on Okay, is this all about Halliburton if he's aggressive early on, are they gonna win it? Or do these other players need to look the way they look against looked against the Knicks.
Well, I think it starts with the OKC defenders. Alex Caruso, Case and Wallace. Lou Dort being the primary defender on Tyrese Halbert has absolutely bitten the head off the snake. You look at what Dort has done this season, last season against Tyrese Haliburt, he is Halle Kryptonite. Hallie can't
break free. He can't shake free on lou Dort. On that final possession in Game one, when he got down the floor and Case and Wallace is guarding him, I said, it's going up and it's going in because where's lou Dort. The guy puts him in a straight jacket. Every time they go at each other, Tyree Taliburn passes the ball up.
He does not like going at lou Dort. And in this series, in two games with Dort guarding him or Alex Carusa guarding him, seventy one possessions seventy one possessions of basketball with those two guys guarding him, Tyree Taliburton has scored two points. He's one for eight shooting. He has four assists of three turnovers. With Caruso and lou Dort, it is the biggest problem the Pacers have faced is this test against okc's unbelievably good defenders, they can't get
Tyree Taliburton going. And in this series he has a nineteen point nine usage rate that is league average. That is like I look this up in usage right by the way, for the listeners, that is what percentage of your team's possessions are you using to try to score? And in this series, Shagilds ers Alexander that thirty six percent of Okay c'se possessions are going to Shay Giljos Alexander for him trying to score. Tyry Tyliburton is actually
below average Naji Marshall. Naji Marshall for the Dallas Mavericks was at twenty percent this season. So what Lou Dort and Alex CRUs will have done in this series is they've turned Tyree Taliburton into a role player. And that is the biggest problem here is that when you see the Indiana Pacers and that record that you talked about is seven to one, when he scores twenty or more, the assisted turnover ratio is outstanding. But in order for the Pacers to win this series, it is all about
that score. It is all about getting to the free throw line, which, by the way, how many free throw attempts has he had in this series so far in two games zero. This guy needs to be an attack mode in game three. And this isn't just like yay points, yay points per game like that's a very caveman looking
at the at the sport of basketball. But in this case, with the way that the defense is loading up on Tyre's Halliburton, he's got a break free because it is way too hard for the Pacers to get good offense when Haliburton is playing in this passive mode where he has a nineteen percent usage rate, which is below average forget about stars or superstars I'm talking third or fourth options on good teams having this kind of scoring responsibility.
He's got to have more and I just think that that is going to make a big difference for Indiana game three if Tyre's Taliburton's attacking.
Okay, So I have a two part question for you, how do they make that happen? And do you think they can? Because I'm resigned to the point where I don't think Halliburton is going to have enough space based off of how you just articulated who Okase is defensively and watching what they've done to other perimeter ball dominant players,
either lead guards or wings like Anthony Edwards. So I want you to let me know how Indiana can get him loose, and do you think they can actually do it, because I'm kind of resigned to the fact that it has to be his teammates, I'm not sure he can get loose.
Yeah, it is very apparent that this might be over in five games and he might not ever get loose. Like I'm in total agreement with you, But he has to compete. He has to make it tough on lou Dort, and when lou Dort has even a step behind Tyres Halliburton and gets him off balance, Hallie has to draw contact. He can't be afraid of drawing contact. And Halliburton I at his best. He is a guy who is able to get into the teeth of the defense, get you off your feet, and then getting to the free throw
line getting lou Dort in foul trouble. That's a tall order, but he has to be more aggressive in that way rather than just getting rid of the ball as soon as he sees that dude in his sight. The numbers are also really interesting when you look at Halliburton just in general this postseason, when he's being guarded by a big, say Isaiah Hartenstein, say Evan Mobley, say Giannis Endatacompo, his eyes get big. He loves going at those mismatches. In
those scenarios. He's scoring fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when he's going when he's being defended by a big, Okay, fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when it's a non big, a wing, a point guard that goes from fifty seven points to seventeen. Okay. So the Thunder do not want to switch Ched Holmgren or Jalen Williams or
Isaiah Hartenstein onto Tyres Halliburton. And in many ways they don't have to, because that's how good their wing defenders are Lou Dorp, Cason Wallace and Alex Caruso, Shay Gilders,
alexand in there too. But if they do switch, and he does get that mismatch where he's able to get some sort of transaction where he gets going against a big, that might be their best option is to just figure out a way, whether it's in the pick and roll or attacking in transition or doing some deceptive plays where they're faking in action and getting into something else that draws in Hartenstein. But Halliburton is at his best when he gets off of lou dort or Case and Wallace
Ralis Caruso. And so maybe it's as simple as trying to attack the Bigs in ways that he can do it in transition a lot easier than in the half court. But he has to draw fouls and he has to be more aggressive.
And your point about look, it's the NBA Finals, and yes they're Oklahoma City is good defensively and this stuff is hard is well taken so like the greatest in the history of the game, and you know the narrative and conversation surrounding Halliburton and the whole like, well the players told the athletic he's overrated? Is he a superstar?
Like that stuff is exhausting to me. But your point stands like, if you do want to be considered somebody who sits at that lunch table, you have to figure it out against defenses that are that are designed schematically to stop you, because that doesn't you know that that doesn't stop the great Historically you wanted titles. So do you think Halliburton personally is up for the challenge based of how you articulated that he simply just has to step up and compete.
Yeah, I think he's a lot like Chris Paul in that it's in his DNA to set the table for others rather than trying to hero ball his way out of this series. One stet that I found astounding when I was looking into this and Tyree Taliburton and his you know, quote unquote passivity or his lack of usage rate, it's it's very similar to Chris Paul. Chris Paul all time great, incredibly good at maintaining possession and methodically breaking
down the defense. Chris Paul in all his years, he only had two seasons of twenty point scoring and only one time did he shoot twenty five times in a playoff game. It's just not how he's built, Chris Paul. He's more interested in setting the table, getting improving his teammates, making sure his other teammates are getting involved, rather than going out and trying to get forty. And I think
Tyree's Halliburton is built the same way. They have like them Muggsy Bogues and John Stockton, they have like identical I assist to turnover ratios. They are very careful with the ball and they rarely make mistakes. But I also think some of that is part and parcel to why he doesn't want to go out and play hero ball. He's not built like MJ. He's not built like Anthony Edwards. He's not built like Shake Gildris Alexander and that's okay.
Like Chris Paul, all time great, one of the fifty best players to ever lace them up, John Stockton as well. I think he's more in that category rather than someone who's going to win an MVP or someone who's gonna win a finals MVP. At this stage where he's just whipping the hearts out of the opponent for forty eight minutes, he can do it in the last two minutes of games this season with a shot to go ahead or a shot to tie. He's shooting thirteen to fifteen from
the floor. But I think what's interesting about that stats. It's ridiculous, by the way, it's a ridiculous stat But I think the reason, part of the reason why he's able to be so efficient and so good in those lat and close situations this season is because he's not tiring himself out for the rest of the forty six minutes of the game, and you look at this series, he's just not as aggressive in the first two quarters. I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I don't think you
can have one without the other. I think it's interesting. Tyre Salburn has been so good in clutch situations this year. I think part of that is because he's got enough gas left in the tank to do those plays when everyone else is run down and tired, and so I do think that there's a relationship there that Tyree's taliburt
is as good as he is in clutch situations. I don't think you're getting that prime Tyree Taliburton, rip your heart out in the endgame stage when he's going and trying to score every time down the floor in the first three quarters. So it's a delicate balance, and I think he's more Chris Paul than he is Shake Gilsris Alexander, And to me, he's got to have at least one if they're going to win this series, they've got to have at least one epic Shay gildsris. I mean Tyree
Taliburton game where he's got thirty and fifteen. It's gonna take that against this OKAC team, Like I think this is going to be over and five. I've picked that in before the series. And if Haliburton wants to be a legend legendary all time player like he has shown in the first three rounds, it's gonna take another historic performance that isn't gonna be just twelve or thirteen shots in the game.
Yeah, a couple of good points in there.
My favorite is the parallel between Halliburton and SGA. That's not the correct line to draw here, just to say it's those two against each other as far as you know who's gonna go off and who's gonna lead their team. They lead their team in different ways. It's a false equivalency. They're different players. But if we move over to the Thunder, you know it was funny because Game two I thought was just tremendously boring because it's what okay, okayc just does.
I mean, it's like death with a thousand paper cuts. It started out back and forth. The Pacers looked okay, and if you've been watching the Thunder all year long, it's just it's what they've done all year and I harkened back to what Chris Finch said after Oklahoma City eliminated the Timberwolves when a media member and his postgame presser said, what did you learn about your team tonight?
And he said nothing, because this is who we are.
I feel like this is just a mountain that's too tall for the Pacers to climb. But if you look at the moments of success they've had in this series, which even though it's one one, it hasn't been a lot of moments like ninety six minutes of play, ninety minutes or so have been dominated by the Thunder. But as they go back home, what do the Pacers do with what feels like kryptonite if you try to sell out to stop Shaye. They've got plenty of shooters that
can knock down shots. How do they corral this team that when they're ticking, they just feel so impossible?
Tom, Yeah, you know you said it. This OKC team has led for basically the entire series, and it was an incredible shot making display at the end of Game one that they fought back and rallied and won that
game in epic fashion. But to me, this Thunder team is designed to crush teams like the Indiana Pacers, where so much of their offense depends on Hollie and them hard and they are so good at stopping ball dominant guys, guys who are you know, they move the ball quite a bit, but that's what OKAC does is they're just so ferocious defensively. They're Doberman's out there that I just if you're not going to be able to pound them
in the paint, they're not going to be vulnerable. And it's going to come down to Pascal Siakam and Miles Turner and Obi Toppin to try to free up the other guys and have multiple defenders collapse onto them in the paint, and then you can get kind of Tyreese going downhill on a hard close out and a kickout. That might be their option is to play inside out rather than inside in, but that's easier said than done.
I think I've said this before to the Spence. When you watch the Thunder play basketball, especially on defense, it feels like it's six on five, but it feels like there's six guys out there. That's how well they cover ground and how well they close out and recover, help and recover and swarm. It doesn't seem right, Like I'm looking around, like are there six guys out there? And that's just how they play, and so it's gonna be really challenging.
But they got to pound the paint, play inside out, and that's easier said than done.
All right, let's move over to a story.
And look, you know my background and upbringing, and I still very much cheer for the New York Knicks and have enjoyed the fact that they're relevant and somewhat fun again, But even in my Nick fandom, I have to chuckle at the Hubris where for the first time in thirty years, you're somewhat relevant. So your response to your relevance is to fire a really good coach.
And then believe that you can just interview anyone you want.
Minnesota, Dallas, Houston all said no, you are not allowed. So your take on this, and do you have any idea who they're going to land on to replace Tom Thibodeau.
Why couldn't they just keep Tibbs and then bring in like a Terry Stotts, you know, like if you're worried about his rigidity or his inability to think outside the box, then I think you keep that guy and try to get an offensive coordinator in there to help you think more outside the box. And maybe Tibbs is so rigid
that he will not listen to that guy. But what it sounds like to me is that Leon Rose and Dolan are not on the same page on this because leon Rose, to me, seems like a Tibbs guy that from CIA and going back in the day, I think that they are they are aligned on this, and the fact that James Dolan, from Vinnie Goodwill's reporting at Yahoo's Sports and others, seems to be intervening here and meddling with this decision and not liking Tom Thibodeaux and being
the driver of this. This feels like the old Knicks.
Again.
The last few years have felt like this new regime. Leon Rose is doing this very methodically and very sophisticated long term view. This feels like the old Knicks. And I don't mean that in a good way. This feels like to me, it feels very knee jerk, It feels very emotional, and it also reeks of arrogance that like the exceptionalism that you're imbuing on the rest of the NBA that you're saying you built this Minnesota team, I'm going to steal you away and poach you because we're
the Knicks. Or the same thing for Ema Udoka and the same thing for Jason Kidd. Now, the Jason Kidd thing is really interesting to me because the reporting suggests that the interest is mutual, that Jason Kidd also wants to become a New York Nick. And when you don't allow Jason Kidd to get what he wants, There's been a pattern here throughout his career, both player and coaching, that Jason Kidd will in the end get what he wants.
And so that to me, Spence is really interesting. Is if that is true that Jason Kidd wants to coach this team the New York Knicks and the Dallas Mavericks denied permission and said no, you will not allow it to talk. What does Jason Kidd know? What can Jason Kidd do to make this a very uncomfortable situation for Nico Harrison and the incoming Cooper flag and Patrick Dumont.
And that's where this gets really messy and also soap opera palace intrigue, where you're looking at Jason Kidd and if he truly wants to become a New York Nick. This circus has only begun, and I wonder what your thoughts are on that. Because Jason Kidd, what he did with the Brooklyn Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks, this seems like not the end of the story, but possibly the beginning.
So interesting.
My read was, potentially Jason Kidd does not want the Nick job, because I would imagine, and I don't know this, you could very very well be correct. Like you if you're Patrick Dumont, if you're Nico Harrison, and the Knicks call you, it's Jim Dolan or Leon Rose or whatever and they say, we'd like to interview your head coach. My guess would be they would talk to Jason and say are you interested in this? And if he says that he is, I don't want you coaching my team.
So then I call Leon back and Dolan back, and I say, okay, it's going to cost your first rounder or whatever. So my read was kind of like, maybe they talked to Jason and the reporting is incorrect, he does not have interest in that job.
But honestly don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. I think it was Brian Winnhurst who reported that it's mutual interest between the two Jason Kidd and the New York Knicks. YEP. Now what level that is, whether it rises if the interest in Jason Kidd supersedes his interest in the Dallas Maverick's job. I don't know. He might be interested in both. But the
Jason Kidd's story is fascinating. The Lawrence Frank in Brooklyn, the Prokovs, and the way that he tried to go about Billy King in Brooklyn to try to build his personnel in a way that he wanted and then they just said, we're done with this. You go to Milwaukee and we'll get a couple first rounders or second rounders.
Five.
I think Jason Kidd is in a very tough spot here because he's close with Kyrie, He's close with Jalen Brunson, He's close with Anthony Davis, and he's also close with the Dumont family and with Nico Harrison. The loyal The loyalty seems to be with Dallas. But he's also got this Cooper flag expectation coming in, and I think that's a tricky thing for a head coach to deal with.
Is an eighteen year old Cooper Flag entering a win now situation with Anthony Davis, can you do the David Robinson tim in San Antonio If you don't have a full roster around, it's supporting cast. Kyrie Irving's not going
to play next year or much of next year. And so I can understand why Jason Kidd might look at what Nico Harrison did with Lucan Dancic and then what is going to happen here with Cooper Flag and just say, you know what, maybe maybe the Knicks job is a lot simpler, you know than what I'm going to have to navigate here. So we'll see what happens with Jason Kidd. But I think I think Cooper Flag is the real deal.
I think he's going to be outstanding, And for those reasons, I think Jason Kidd would be smart to stay and build around that guy. But what Nico Harrison has done to build a win now team and trade away Luka Doncic, it doesn't look like you can kind of slow play this thing. And if I'm Jason Kidd, that's gonna be a very tricky situation.
Why Tom, last thing before I said you lose over the past, I'll say four days. We have some reporting, including Sarah Todd because you're on the ground and works for the Desert Red News and covers the Jazz, Bill Simmons on his podcast, and then Zach Lowe has been the most recent to either write or say out loud. They've been told the Jazz are actively taking phone calls
on both Lowry Marketen and Walker Kessler. So if we take Austin Ainge at his word that there will be no tanking or manipulating minutes this season, and they are now taking phone calls on who I perceive to be honestly the only two good players on their roster right now, what does that tell you about what next year might look like in sul Lake.
Yeah, I would say they're going to try to get younger around market in or moving market in and trying to get younger. But then Walker Kessler is one of the best young bigs in the NBA, So are you really going to move him for a younger piece when the guy just turned twenty three this year, so like he's turning twenty four in July, maybe you try to move him for a twenty year old big or a twenty one year old big. Just kind of move the timeline back a few years and you don't have to
pay a big extension and see that through. But I don't know what moving Walker Kessler does for you. I don't know now. If Cooper Flag is coming down the pike and you're trying to figure out Marketing and Flag and Walker Kessler, I can understand why you move one, but not both of those guys, I don't. I mean, I don't know what the move would be on Walker Kessler moving him. I can understand marketing. There's a bunch of contenders that could see Marketing as a missing piece,
as a floor space or a dynamic offensive driver. But the Walker Kessler piece doesn't make sense to me because he seems like a guy to help build around at twenty three years old, not someone that you're going to move away to try to win now. It's just I don't see it, and it doesn't seem to be able to be reconciled the idea that you would want to win now but also move Lowry, Markinen and Walker Kessler. So that doesn't add up to me.
Yeah, I guess the only time will tell, all right, my friend, thanks for stopping buying a game day enjoy the game tonight, have a great week.
We'll chat to him, you guys. Fence all right, The Great Tom Haberstrow