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This is k A L L North Salt Lake k x R k HD three ESPN seven hundred and ninety two to one.
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Messing me up my whole head season me just like Tita did.
Now look at what you got, ol boy crushing it in or the host, the whole world see it. It's what you can't my peoples.
They can play no.
NBA basketball tonight. I don't even know what I'm gonna do. Conference finals start tomorrow and they continue on Wednesday. Happy Monday to our guy Tom Haberstrow, who joins now to talsing Ball.
Tommy, what's going on? Man? Hello? Tom? Tom Averstrow, All right here.
I had myself on mute. I was it was a rookie move. I had myself on mute and I was talking, and you were like, hey, can I hear you? When I was like, is my take that the last of Us episode that I watched that I can't watch tonight? Do you have any last of US takes? Are you watching that show?
I am not? You have you made your way through righteous Gemstones?
So that's on my to do list this offseason. I know, I know, just don't just don't. I know it. Everybody, all my buddies are I can't believe because, like, if you did an algorithm of like things that I like, comedies shows, HBO shows, whatever, it would all point to the Righteous Epstones. And I haven't started it yet. And I'm sorry. I apologize. That is number one on my big board.
You do not have to apologize to me, but you can count me among the people were not best buds. But it does seem like righteous Gemstones would be right down your alley. I mean, I'm a like anything McBride does. I'll give it a chance, you know, vice principles, whatever it is, I'm gonna watch Danny McBride.
Well, I think I think right now the NBA it's it's a great time to be an NBA fan because we've got some new fresh blood. We've got the whole Cooper Flag dynamic. There's a lot of storylines with the Luka Doncic stuff. We've got some new blood. But I got to say, at this point in the postseason, I think everyone deserves a little bit of a beat, a little bit of a break. And so last night having no game and then tonight not having a game I think it's good for all. I'm not saying it's Aaron Gordon.
Where Aaron Gordon is now after losing saying we need more rest in the postseason. I'm not saying I'm taking a page out of Aaron Gordon's book. I'm just saying, Look, I think for everyone's health and their their families and their loved ones, it'll be good to get some FaceTime with them this evening. I'm just saying that.
What if you're single and your only child is twenty three, living in New Canaan, Connecticut and not in Salt Lake. What if you have literally nothing to do and no family to interface with.
You're asking for a friend.
Yeah no, not me, not me, Tom, just a buddy of mine.
Well, you know what, you can pull up some bold clips. You know, you can pull up whatever you want. And that's a great thing about the NBA is there's a plenty of libraries there on NBA dot Com or if you want, on all the streaming platforms, there's lots of content you can watch on the NBA if you need to fill that void in your life.
Or could you do me a favor and go to the archive of the Staples wreckers and see if you can give me nineteen ninety four New Canaan at Staples Spence check its versus Pete Van Sicklin.
Can you can you do that?
What is a website error message for roh or not fun? That's that's what that is. I don't know what you're talking about.
A fair enough All right, Tom, I've got of a loaded question, but you'll be good with this. I started the show off today with you know, we're about to have our seventh NBA champion seven years. When you look at some of the teams that have won championships, it's Milwaukee, it is Denver, and ultimately this year we have Minnesota, we have Oklahoma City, we have Indianapolis, all in the final four, which means this era of parody should benefit teams at play in cities such as ours.
Now.
The problem is the Jazz are not ready to capitalize on what other teams have been able to position themselves to capitalize on. The new CBA expires in five years. We had Bobby Marks on last segment. We kind of walked through this so explained to us why we have seen this parody manifest itself in pro basketball and how the Jazz can position themselves to capitalize on this era the way that other small, small market teams have.
He's how you do it. Build up your medical staff. There's no cap on your medical staff. And this parody era is lipstick on a pig. The parody label is a nice, warm propaganda term to say, all our stars are injured these days, and that's what's dictating these non
repeats and new champions every year. Because guys like Jason Tatum, or if it's Jiannis, or if it's Kevin Durant in the twenty nineteen NBA finals, or it's Klay Thompson in the twenty nineteen NBA Finals, if it's Chris Middleton with the Milwaukee Bucks, if it's Drew Holliday this year in Jason Tatum, these repeat quests are more a result of stars getting injured. Then I think what's being led on and we can say this is the era of you know, the CBA, that the second Apron and the Big three
era is done. I would argue that this is more of a function of NBA stars are getting hurt and not on our TV screen than it is more of this like good competitive balance measures. And I think that's not a fun story to tell, it's an important story to tell. It's an accurate, accurate story to tell that the repeat champions or the reigning champions, I should say in that seven years are more injury riddled than not. So when we look at the Boston Celtics and why
they they felt in that series, there's two reasons. One they got really cold shooting, and two they had no Jason Tatum, a banged up Drew Holiday who was missing playoff games earlier in the series. In the playoffs, he had also Christaps Porzingis, who was a shell of himself. Right, the Knicks were healthy, they played great, but the Boston Celtics are not repeat champions, mostly because of the fact that they didn't shoot well and that they weren't healthy.
And that really is the big story here is when you're talking about parody in the NBA, it's not a thing of competitive ballots, no matter what they sell you. It's more about three point shooting has taken over the league and because of that, there's more variance in who wins in a series. And if you look at every series this postseason, almost all of them have been won by the team that shot better from Downtown almost every
single one. And so when you have the three ball mattering this much and injuries mattering this much in the postseason, I just wrote a column for Yahoo Sports that injuries in the postseason have increased sevenfolds since the late nineteen nineties. Injuries to star players, all star players have increased sevenfold since the late nineteen nineties and fivefold since as recently as two thousand and eight. So that is why we're
not having these repeat champions. As much as we want to say it's about, oh, everyone's got a chance, Well everyone's got a chance because stars that matter more in basketball than any other sport, star players are not being available because of injuries and three point shooting, and so I think that's more of a reason. And if you're a Utah Jazz, say and I would say, make sure your training staff is as good as the New York Knicks is one, because they just got the Trainers Award
this year. The Traders Association Athletic Trainers Association give out the Athletic Training Association Award and going to the healthiest or the best training staff in the league, and it just got awarded to the Knicks today and they got Casey Smith from the Dallas Mavericks, which is one of the reasons why allegedly Luka Doncic was moved at the deadline, was because Casey Smith, who was one of the best and most well regarded training staff head athletic trainers in
the NBA. That was as close to Dryk Dabitsky as anybody who was a part of the staff when they won the twenty eleven NBA Finals against the Miami Heat. That guy just got the award for the New York Knicks. And I think that this is an important storyline for the franchises that are in Charlotte, where I'm based, and in Utah and in Memphis and New Orleans. You gotta ramp up your medical staffs because that is the most
important ingredient when it comes to winning championships. Is not just having stars, yes we all know that, but making sure those stars are healthy and well supported by your performance of medical staff. That's gonna dictate as much as getting the star is making sure that they're able to play in June, in May, and in April. And that is a big storyline that no one's talking about.
Well, Tom, I didn't invite you on to completely sabotage my rundown of the show today. Okay, so you're not necessarily wrong. The problem with talking about that through the prism of where the Jazz file themselves is all due respect to the current roster, none of them really have to stay healthy for them to do anything special. So I guess I'll try to change maybe the angle in the direction. But I do want to get back to what you just said, because I'm wondering what your thoughts
are and why we're seeing this. But when it comes to the jazz perspective, is there anything that we can't ascertain from the current landscape of the NBA that is positive for this fan base to look at through the prism of what Okac has built, and Minnesota has built, and Indianapolis is built, and Milwaukee winning a title and
Denver winning a title. Is there anything about all of that that this fan base should look at as a positive piece of news for the future of this organization as they continue to try to roster construct.
Well, yeah, I mean it's good news that we have injuries to star players, because if you don't have a great team, or if you're trying to rebuild and you know strike it hit the lottery not and sorry the draft lottery. We don't have to revisit that from last week.
But the point is, if you are a mid tier title contender like the Indiana Pacers or the Minnesota Timberwolves that were not in my top tier all season long at Tomdefiner dot com, you have a better shot in today's era when Jason Tatum and Jamian Lillard tear their achilles in the postseason, like you have a better chance at making a run and having things break your way if star players are getting into your more so, if the Utah Jazz want to look at this era and say, hey,
it's a shorter path because of this, I would agree with you. I would also say that when you have a guy like Will Hardy who believes in three pointers and has a shot profile of you know, having smart taking your shots from smart places on the floor, rim get to the free throw line, and three pointers. This is the modern way to play. And you're seeing that games are being dictated by three pointers a lot more. And he believes that like Will Hardy is wise to
the importance of the three point shot. That doesn't mean that he he is okay with Walker Kessler taking tad threes a game that we saw a little cameo of that at the end of the season, and we might know why that was happening. But I think when you look at the Utah Jazz and this more open playing open season for the championship, it might not be as long of a runway as it was in previous generations
and the thunder or evidence of that. And I also think that the Indiana Pacers, you remember they were in the Webby sweepstakes like they were gonna be a team that was going to tank and they kind of were too good for that. It wasn't long ago that the Indiana Pacers were considered Vegas's the lowest number in the over unders by by Vegas. There was only a couple of years ago. And so now they are one of the last four teams remaining for a second straight year.
And I think there's a good lesson there for Utah Jazz that this can turn around quickly.
So we talked to you, I think our first NBA guest after the bad news that the Jazz did not get a little luck last week and they a cheap hesitating to say they fell to five because the percentages said that was the best possible out or not. The most likely possible outcome was four or five. So that was their floor. So they didn't get the luck, but they actually landed where the numbers said they probably would land.
Here's my question, Tom, because we've already seen.
A couple of reports, one from our local b rider here the desrat News, Sarah Todd indicating the Jazz are going to do whatever they can to try to move up, and they're going to try to be bold. They've got all the assets. You will see how that looks or what it looks like. But who in the top five we can remove Dallas? Because Patrick Dumont was like, we're keeping one. We're drafting Cooper flag No Nico, you can't
trade it. So that's already kind of done. So if we move Dallas, who in front of the Jazz is most likely to move up? And you think the Jazz can get something like that done.
I'm looking at San Antonio. San Antonio at number two.
They already have Dared Fox and Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper is considered the favorite to go number two before the draft lottery, And we'll see what happens and if the San Antonio Spurs moved down right, would they want someone on the Utah Jazz roster right now in to trade down from two to five, And would they be willing to part with let's say Lowry Markinen or John Collins or another veteran that would be appealing to a team that's trying to win, as we saw with Daron
Fox acquisition, They're trying to win now. And if if it's gonna be lowry marketing on the table for Dylan Harper, I don't know. I think the Utah Jazz would be very wise to try to go get a Dylan Harper, but if it comes to the cost of marketing, I can understand why he would be very appealing to the Spurs, and why Dylan Harper would be very appealing to the Utah Jazz to get like their point guard, whether you want to say hybrid guard of the future, that would
make sense from a personnel standpoint. I just don't know if the Utah Jazz would move marketing for Dylan Harper. I don't know if he's that much of the knockdown or a home run draft prospect, But in terms of the needs of the San Antonio Spurs as getting a knockdown three point shooter. A big like Harrison Barnes is like a poor man's version of Lowry market In. Larry Markin is a star version of Garrison Barnes, a big guard who can shoot the rock and play multiple positions.
When you got like Larry Markinen and Victor Webbin Yama next to each other, that's really impressive. That's a really tough to guard front line. They're big and you don't need as much shot blocking if you're Larry Marketing when you got Wemby right there behind you, He's like a suit up version of Walker Kessler back there. So that's I would ask for more if I'm the San Antonio, if I'm the Utah Jazz, if I'm gonna move Larry Markinen.
But that seems like two teams that are on different trajectories, and you could imagine them trying to move up. But I can't imagine the San Antonio Spurs are going to move down for John Collins or something like that. So it would be tough for me to see the San Antonio Spurs unless Larry Markin is on the table.
All right.
Moving over now to teams that are still playing, and I wonder and I've talked to Bobby about this and you'll get it, you know. Visions of Charles Smith missing four layups in a row.
No, he was not fouled.
Visions of Anthony Mason literally throwing an in bounce pass to Reggie Miller, who stepped back and hit a three when Greg Anthony fell down. Visions of Patrick Ewing's finger roll bouncing off the back of the rim against the Pacers, John Starts going three of eighteen and pat Riley refusing to just take Rolando Blackman off ice for a minute. All of those things dancing through my Nick fan head. So no part of me thought we were going to
see a blowout on Friday night, Yet we did. What stands out most, Tom, outside of the Tatum stuff, which we know has to be brought into the equation, but the way the Knicks have been able to do this and build this roster that brings them back to the conference finals, what stands out most to you.
I mean, it's Jalen Brunson. This guy is unreal. The way that he has dominated in fourth quarters this postseason and in clutch time, it's remarkable. It's a testament to Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau and Worldwide West, and the fact that they believe so much in Jalen Brunton to tamper whatever you want to call it, hire his father to the coaching staff under Tom Thibodeau, and send a whole fleet of people to go watch that game that they thought it was about Donovan Mitchell when it's more
about Jalen Brunson. To go and acquire that guy and then say, not only is he going to be an All Star for us, but he's going to be one of the best, if not the best playoff performer in a couple of years. Because that's the level that Jalen Brunson has been playing this postseason, averaging twenty nine points per game and in the fourth quarters. In fourth quarters this postseason, Jalen Brunson has over one hundred points. He has one hundred and fourteen points this postseason and the
next highest guy I has seventy six. So Jalen Brunson in the fourth quarter shooting fifty one percent from the floor, forty eight percent from downtown and has more points than anybody by forty by by by about forty points. That's insane and He's not a big dude, and so I can understand why people looked at Jalen Brunson and said
he's undersize, he's not athletic enough. But the dude's a winner and he's proven time and time again that he's been able to step up and last postseason against the Indiana Pacers getting hurt and just not being able to finish the season. I can't wait for this series. I can't wait to see how Karl Anthony Towns is leveraged in this In this series, we got two five out teams with Miles Turner and Karl Anthony Towns being two of the best three points shooting bigs in the league.
We've got a lot of bad blood between these two teams. Historically, we're gonna see Reggie Miller on the mic for TNT and their last postseason on the broadcast. There's a lot of dynamics here that are really excited. But my favorite thing is that we have the potential for Tyree's Halliburton to do the choke sign against the New York Knicks. I'll at Reggie Miller with Reggie Miller in the building in Indiana, like if that happens WWE ain't got nothing
on this series. We even saw Tyree Taliburton and Jalen Brunson in WWE, and it wouldn't top the theatrics. If the Indiana Pacers win a clutch game in Indiana against the New York Knicks and with Reggie Miller on on the broadcast, Tyre's Haliburton busts that out, like, I am, I am, I am here for this series.
You know what PTSD is, Tom, you know the definition of that.
There.
I'm sorry, okay, So, like, of all the interviews you're gonna do this week, this is the only one you didn't need to do that.
You realize that, right, I am sorry to do that to you.
All good?
At first, I start off by having the mute button on and then I do that. See you come on, man, if you hung up on me, I would not blame you.
I would never do that to you, especially at my age. When my son is visibly embarrassed watching me text. He's like, Dad, why does that take you? So I'm like, just leave me alone. I'll get it done just real quick. Who do you give the advantage to nick Pacers?
Just early on?
I think it's the Pacers and the way that they get up and down the floor, the shot making that they have. They are the best shooting team in the postseason so far. They've got about eight guys in that series shooting fifty percent or higher against Cleveland. They are a team that I think could give the next real problems when it comes to that up tempo. They move the ball crazy way more than the Boston Celtics. The Indiana Pacers are having more passes per game this postseason
than any team since twenty fifteen. It's been a decade plus since we've seen a team move the ball this much per game than the Indiana Pacers. And as we saw against the Boston Celtics, the switching that they do sometimes they can get vulnerable. You're going to try to limit the passing by switching a lot, but they're not a good switching team, and so are you going to see Tom Thibodeau in that very overload strongside defense, and the Pacers are going to try to pick that apart
by getting them in rotation and getting open baskets. This is a really good Pacers offense and a team that has the best win percentage in the Eastern Conference since January one. They're legit, It's not gonna be an easy series. I picked the Boston Celtics over the Knicks in five games, so I'm obviously over underrating the New York Knicks historically, but I just think the Indiana Pacers play a brand of basketball that can be really tough for the Knicks. So I got the Pacers in that series.
Out this way okay, see dispatches of Denver in Game seven, and man when they turn it on, it just look there might be a little pressure on OKAC with Boston out, with Cleveland out, with Lebron out, with Stephen Curry out, and I could keep going. They are the Vegas favorite to win, not just against the Tea Wls, but the NBA Championship.
Now Minnesota, I think they deserve a lot.
More credit than most people are giving them, and maybe we should have paid more attention to them because they did finish the season well. But before I say you lose, who do you like out this way in the West?
Okasee or Minnesota? And why?
I think it's okay? See and their defense is so smothering and so physical and so intense that I could see it giving you know, Rudy Gobert a lot of problems. I see. Julius Randall has been as good as I've ever seen Julius Randall play in this postseason. But the way that they kind of bait you into trying to go one on one and then they had like three guys swarming you and swiping at the ball, I could
see that going very sideways for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Look, this Golden State Warriors team was cooked without Stephen Curry. Jimmy Butler was injured, could not muster up enough to lead that team with any sort of fight against the Minnesota Timberwolves. And I think this Thunder team is way different. Their way younger, youngest title can any team ever Alex Caruso.
The fact that they were able to get him in the trade which for Josh Giddy and then turn him into a Yokich stopper, that was insane and I got okay see. I've had to okay see all season long. I've been on this program saying that I think they're going to run through the postseason. Denver did a great job giving giving them a real battle in that semi finals. I think it's over in six games against the Minnesota Timberwolves. I understand why Anthony Edwards and the Timberwolves on rest
would seem to be a popular pick. But I got OKAYC in that series. But I want to hand it to Julius Rando. He's proven me wrong this postseason. I did not think he was going to be a good postseason perform and you know, watching the Knicks as much as you do, that he can be very frustrating and the way that he plays isoball and just puts the blinders on in a taxi. But in some of those series Man against the Lakers and the way that they were trying to go small against the Timberwolves, like sometimes
you need that bullyball. Sometimes you need that against the Golden se Warriors that are basically playing five guards out there. Julius Randam has been excellence this postseason. But I think against a huge, intense, physical thunder team, I think I think it's just gonna be too much of a test for the Minnesota Timberls. And I got Okac in sixt One.
More thing, Actually, I want to kick the tires real quick because you reference the next trainer, you know, being awarded the the you know, the training staff of the year.
I would just wonder if you're watching the same.
Way I am, Like, I get Tom's I get Tom Thibodeau's ethos, like known him forever, he was Jeff's assistant. But when it's one hundred and ten to seventy four with five minutes left and Jalen Brunton is fighting over Xavier Tillman picks, don't like, at what point do you put aside who you are and sit your guys to make sure they're ready for the next round.
Man is a tiger trait changes straight. I know, I mean, I know it's We've seen it. Unfortunately, we've seen this horror show, the Boogeyman. What happens at the end of these runs. It happened last year. They've I don't want to ran on their parade like absolutely they should celebrate since two thousands haven't made the conference finals. An incredible and incredible performance against the Boston Celtics. But that stuff
makes me nervous, man, it does. And you know, with Jaylen Brunton being banged up this postseason and or at the end of the regular season that ankle, it just takes one. It just takes one weird freak play for that ankle to be rolled and then it's it's you know, the Tom Thibadou story all over again. But man, they're playing so well. Mitchell Robinson coming back from injury, the
way that he's performed. It's a seven man rotation, and let's see what happens against the Indiana Pacers that are going to try to run them out of the gym. It's going to be a really, really fun series. I can't wait.
Where can people go? Get the work?
Tommy Oh, Tomdefinder dot Com, Yahoo Sports, the Big Number that I do with Dan Devine as well as the KOC show that I appear every week. We're gonna do a postgame show Thursday night after Minnesota, OKC. On Thursday night, We're gonna do a live show over at Yahoo Sports. So go check me out there and of course, pack your knives. Top Chef Recap show in full season right now. If you're a Top Chef fan, thanks so much.
Bench All right, buddy, talk to you soon.
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