To talk more basketball now on a Thursday afternoon where I've got Tony Jones from the athletic TJ.
Where are you at, man? How you doing?
Well's man? How you doing?
Where are you right now?
I'm in Denver.
That's what I thought. That's what I thought. And we'll get there. We'll get there. But I've got to ask you, how confident are you right now in the ability of the New York Knicks to get one of the next two.
I'm I'm pretty nervous about tomorrow.
Okay, all right?
Yeah, I mean I said earlier, Oh yeah, are you nervous? Oh, I'm always nervous. I look, I'd be nervous if Boston was without Tatum and Jalen Brown.
I mean I have I have lived my life with this team.
Uh, and I've seen it way too many times where I get super excited and they completely let me down.
So I'm I'm forever a nervous Knick fan. TJ.
Yeah, it's uh yeah, I just we just need one forty eight minutes get out of the series. We don't get it done tomorrow. Someday is gonna be really hard.
Yes, it will. I can't even think about that. Yet.
But here's what I wanted to ask you and kind of tap into your basketball knowledge. I last night after I signed off, their rushed home so I could get get to the game, and I made made it a point to tag the pregame stuff so I could listen to the coaches and Missoula said something that completely smacked me across the face. And he said, look, we're all gutted about what happened with Jason Tatum, but it does give us a schematic opportunity.
What do you think he meant.
Well, schematic opportunity to get getting Luke Cornette on the floor. And you know he provided rem protection, but you know he's also provided a lob threat. And I thought that that was really big. And you know they did some you know, they did some matchup changes. Uh. You know they they went with Jaylen Brown on on Jalen Brunson. Uh. They they threw uh Derek Kwhite into help. But the biggest schematic change, Uh, they put Drew Holliday on Karl
Anthony Towns. And you know, I know people are thinking like, yeah, that's a mismatch, that's a mismatch, But we all know that Kat loves the perimeter. So the thinking with that was, you know, he squeezes off the perimeter and you know, he fights his tail off in the paint, and you know, if if Kat goes you know, into the post, then
they just lived with some contested twos. So they did some pretty dramatic matchups, which is last night, you know, and you know, obviously Derek White got really hot at thirty four points and then you know, Jaylen Brown, you know, got hot, you know, in the second half, you know, but yeah, we got to get it done tomorrow night. We just just have to just you know, grind for forty eight minutes and get this series finished.
Yeah, no, I'm I'm with you.
You know, it's just, man, when when you look at the way Boston, even without Tatum is able to space the floor that five out stuff, it doesn't really change all that much. And Tatum is really the only ball stopper they have on the roster. And look, I love Tatum, that's not a criticism, but without Tatum out there, Tony, to me, it felt like the ball was just moving in a way that sometimes it doesn't.
Does that make sense, No, absolutely, I mean it does make sense. And you know, the thing is that you know, without Jason Tatum, you know you kind of I mean, you obviously know Jalen Brown is going to take a lot of shots, but it because the offense becomes a lot more equal opportunity. And you you know, if you do something like that hits in the middle of a series, you don't necessarily have a chance to really, you know, scout for it and prepare for it, especially you know, by the next game.
And you know, so the the what the Knicks have to take into tomorrow is that Okay, now there's film. Now the Celtics have put what they're going to do without Jason Tatum on film. Now you have to prepare in that way. So you know, it's on Tom Thibodeau and his staff to come up with the necessary adjustments, uh to kind of counter some of them movement in some of the sets that Boston hit them with on Wednesday night.
All right, let's move over to the other game from last night, and then we'll get a preview of the game you're covering. Then we'll let's spend the remaining portion of the conversation about the Utah Jazz t Wolves get it done one twenty one, one ten and for the second straight year of Minnesota is in the Western Conference Finals. I was waiting, and maybe it's not realistic because Minnesota
has so many big, physical wings. I was just waiting for Jimmy Butler to kind of take over the way that we've seen him do in the playoffs often in a couple of years ago, when he essentially carried Miami to the finals almost single handedly, and that never came to fruition.
Uh, of course.
Uh.
It's interesting to watch Boston play so connected without Tatum and watch Golden State just so confused without Steph, which isn't a surprise. But your takeaways from watching Minnesota dispatch of Golden State in five.
Games, well, I mean you said it. You know Jimmy's not gonna get his game I mean, you know he's not going to get his game off against Minnesota like that. You know that team has way too many guys and way too many different guys. I mean, you start, especially without Stephen Curry out there, which would have taken away Jade McDaniels. But now with no Curry, you know, Jay
McDaniels switches on to Jimmy as a primary defender. He's six for ten he's got a seven seven ft three wings fan and he's long, and he's wiry, and he's a dog just like Jimmy is. So you know, there was no physical advantage there for Jimmy. And then okay, so you know, let's go and switch through at of Lina. Okay, so you know you're switching on to Anthony Edwards, who's a dog defensively, or you're switching on to Julius Randall, who's you know, as physically strong as anybody on the floor.
All right, well, let's try our hand with Ready Gobert. You know, we all know that Rudy Gobert is a lot better in space than people try to make make it seem. So you know, the only real matchup is you know, kind of going after Mike Colley a little bit. But if Mike Colley is not on the floor, that means Nikhil, Alexander Walker or Dante di Vincenzo's on the floor, and you know, you get it. The list goes on.
It's on and on and on. Minnesota has so many guys who can defend, and so many guys who are switchable, who are long, lengthy, athletic and just really tough guys. So you know, Jimmy just wasn't going to dominate that
series against those kind of matchups. Maybe if he was playing against the Lakers, you know, it's a different thing, you know, but as a number one guy without Stephen Curry on the floor to draw spacing and draw gravity, that just wasn't going to be you know, a Jimmy Butler series to where you know we're looking and he's you know, throwing up thirty five and forty points to night. That just wasn't gonna happen.
Do you think we will ever see a deep spring playoff run involving Steph Curry again, I mean there's potential.
I mean, he hasn't really slowed down, you know. So what you know, what Mike Dunlevy, the general manager, has to do, is figure out how to build around you know, Steph and Jimmy. It's the same thing that you know, Robs Lincoln down in Los Angeles has to do. You know, you you you have the tape of this year, you know, not going to the offseason to see what you have to do around Lebron and Luca. So you know, it's it's it's not with it's not out of the realm
of possibility. You know that Golden State could know win the West or win another NBA championship, because Steph Curry is still Steph Curry. But they definitely have to, you know, go and get some spacing and build some guys around him and Jimmy. I think they have, you know, the two most important pieces in place, and they just have to kind of try to build on that.
Interesting Tony before we get to tonight.
As of now, no Jannie, no Dame, no Lebron, no Steph, no Durant, no Kawhi, no PG thirteen, no MBD, and no Anthony Davis. I could keep going and then we've got Aunt, We've got Halliburton, hopefully we'll have Jalen Brunson.
Of course, the Boston guys have been there before.
SGA.
Are we kind of finally seeing maybe officially the change in pro basketball from the old guard to the new.
I don't think it's so much of that as I think we're seeing the change from the CBA to where the teams that are going to advance in the playoffs are the teams that have a bunch of guys, not just three guys. So you look at Indiana. You know, they don't have a guy that we be like, yeah, that's that's the guy. They got ten guys. You know, they have ten guys who you can throw on the floor credibly in a playoff series. That's the reason why
they beat Cleveland because Cleveland has seven guys. If Oklahoma City beats Denver, it's because they have nine guys that they can play in this series. And right now Denver has five guys that they can play in this series. They're playing seven, they're putting seven on the floor, but they only have five for a real actual playoff players. Same thing with Minnesota. Minnesota's got nine to ten guys. You know. The only team that's remaining that doesn't have
nine or ten guys is New York. So it's not a shift from you know, the old guard, because if Steph had you know, as deep a team as in the as Indiana, you know, they would have the same chance of going to the finals. Same thing with Lebron. So it's not a change for the old guard because the old Guard, you know, by and large, those guys are still you know, in the top ten in the league. You know, Lebron's still a top ten player, Steph McCurry is still a top ten player. It's this with the CBA.
You gotta have depth now, and you got to have quality depth. And if you don't have quality depth, then you know, at this point in all likelihood, with so many possessions in a game, you're probably gonna go home Earland, all right.
Moving over to tonight, Oklahoma City is getting five points. The line opened up at four and a half and it's moved towards Okase. They're a five point favorite to in Denver and obviously if they win, they advance. So your thoughts on what you've seen so far in the series and how do you think it plays out tonight?
Well, on the line moving towards Looklahoma City, because Jamal Murray is questionable with the nailness, so even if he plays, there's a chance that he's he's a little bit que compromised.
But you know, I think that this series ends tonight because I think that, you know, Denver, like I said, only has five playable guys really, and you know, though, you know, this series is gone every other day through its duration, and Denver's Denver played pretty much every other day through the duration of their first round win against the Los Angeles Clippers. So you know, I don't think the Nuggets have much left in the tank. Uh. You know, I think if obviously if they had won Game five,
it would have been a different thing. But you know the fact that Oklahoma City is so much deeper, and they have so many more bodies, and they're so much more fresh, and they have so much more energy, especially down the stretch in fourth quarters, I think this series that's tonight, all right.
Moving over to the Jazz with the remaining time we have left, and Tony, since you and I last spoke Monday nights, lottery came and went and obviously a lot of Jazz fans very disappointed, which I understand. The fact of the matter is, as you know, the most likely scenario based off the percentages was not one. It was either four or five, and they landed five, which was their floor, which is unfortunate.
But what sort of what sort of.
Info intel do you have out there as far as what sort of players could be available at five? And I'll ask you, what do you think best case scenario scenario is for the Jazz at five coming up in the draft?
Yeah, I don't think it's you know, I don't think it's a tragedy at the land their five. They are five really goods in the draft, so you know they're gonna get a good player. You know, it's you know, if they didn't the the thing that the Jazz that the tank wasn't for the for the ceiling, it was
for the floor. And you know, they wanted to get the number one spot in the lottery balls, so the farthest sake and fall with spots and with the fathers take fall being five, They're fine, They're gonna get a really good player. They're either gonna get uh the there ads from Trey Johnson, I mean Trey Johnson or or a Staley, either one of those guys are are really good players with really high ceilings with with star ceilings. You know, I think as Bailly's floor is more volatile
than than trays and and DJs. His his lowest outcome is is a more volatile than that, but uh it's probably also has the highest outcome as well because he has a superstar outcome. So you know, obviously the disappointment is you know that the Jazz fell all the way to five. The further disappointment is that obviously it was Dallas and in San Antonio and Philly moving up. But you know, if if you take the emotion out of it, you know it's it's a fine spot to land. There
are five very good players in this draft. Jazz are gonna get one of them because they landed at five. So you know it's it's not it's not a doomsday thing, and you know they're they're gonna end up getting a
good player. And you know, my guess is that it's gonna be Ace Bailey because I think the v J. Ashcombe is gonna go third if if Philly keeps the pick, and then I think that, uh, that Charlotte Hornet is going to pick between Trey Johnson and conkerin Nepple, and you know that'll leave, uh, that will leave either Trey or Ace to the Jets.
So what tell me your opinion of of Trey Johnson, who appears to be shooting up draft boards by a lot of uh, you know a lot of mock drafts, a lot of scouts to do this. Gavoni's latest has Tray to six at the at the six of the Wizards. He has the Jazz taking Jeremiah Fears at five. So Uh, give me your take on Trey, because it seems like a lot of people think he might sneak into maybe even the top three.
Yeah. I think Trey has a chance to be Devin Booker. He's he's uh, he's him in ace to me, you are the best shot makers in the draft, all right. He's six for five six or six. Uh. He can handle the balls. He can uh, he can get the spots off the dribble. He moves very very well without the ball. But he's unique and the fact that he can play with the ball in his hands, so he can do both. You can play him off the ball or you can play him on the ball. He's a
good pick and role player. Uh he you know he I think he's a willing passer, you know, and I think that he has a chance to be an offensive engine. Uh. So you know, I think that if if if it's Tray uh, that that falls to the Jazz and in the in the Jazz pick trade. And you know, I think that that's a that's a really good some starting block,
uh to to to start off us. But you know the other thing with Trey I'll say is I think that he would sit in better than most with will Hardy's system because because of his ability to move off the ball. So, you know, I think that he's a guy that that you know, I don't know if he's the guy that I would take at three. The question is who would you take a three? Because DJ, Tray, and Ace are all in the same tier of player.
So right now I would take DJ at three. And the reason why is because DJ, of the three guys that I just mentioned, is the best defender and the and he measured in at six y four without shoes. I thought he was going to measure in at six two or six one and a half without shoes, so he measured in a lot bigger than than than expected at the combine. So I think that that balls him into the third spot.
So is it safe to say whoever's left over out of Ace, VJ, and Trey, in your opinion lands to the Jazz.
I would say that that's the leader in the clubhouse right now. I don't mean obviously the Jazz to fall in love with somebody else. You know, maybe they fall in love with Derek Queen, Maybe they do fall in love with Jeremiah Fears, Maybe they fall in love with Kaka Nipple, you know, all during the pre draft process. But I would say as of right now, I would say one of those three you know, or the leader in the clubhouse at this point.
Really the only local player of interest as far as being able to be drafted at a notable spot, as Yegor Demon from Brigham Young Cavaldi has him going to Chicago at twelve.
What do you think happens with Yegor draft Knight.
Yeah, his stock is rising because he measured in it's like six' nine without, shoes you, know so if you pushes on him like he's six nine and a half six, TEN i think that you, know he was expected that he would come in and measure it a, well six six six and a half or six seven without, Shoes so you, know he's a jumbo point guard right, now like he's A he's a legitimate six foot nine and a half point. Guard and you know he's the best passer in the, draft you. Know SO i think THAT
i think that you, know his ceiling right. Now don't be surprised if he's really in play at number six for The Washington wizards by the time all of this, thing but time all of this is said and. DONE i don't think The jazz will take them at, five BUT i do think that the ceiling starts at.
Six as far as what the rest of the offseason could look like for The, jazz they also have twenty, one so we'll see what sort of value is there at twenty.
One you, know it's.
Interesting Tim bontemps FROM espn had a piece up yesterday and he quoted a number of different front office, executives one who was very specific about his enjoyment seeing both The jazz And washington not get number one overall because he doesn't believe tanking should be rewarded in pro. Basketball and of, Course Adam silver's endeavor to flatten the odds in twenty nineteen was in part to try to dissuade teams from doing what The jazz and The wizards did this.
Year so look next year's, draft and you and others have talked about next year's draft as something that could be, very very. Exciting The jazz have a pick that's top eight, protected so it would behoove them to be bad, again do you? There they're gonna be a number of, players good Players tony on the, move Namely, giannis Maybe, durant who knows What boston does with that five hundred million
luxury tax. Bill now That tatum's out for probably next, year do you anticipate The jazz trying to get involved in a notable piece or do you feel like next year is going to look a lot like this.
Year whether next year looks a lot like this year or, not The jazz need to go out and get a point. Guard they need to go out and get a real point guard who can actually come in and run a REAL nba, offense BECAUSE i think that they are short changing their development about what they're, by you, know what they're putting out of their point guard right. Now you, KNOW i don't dislike asaid call you at, all BUT i think he's a backup AND i don't know that
he's going to become a starter in this. League and they just need somebody who can come in and run an, offense, because you, know they need to figure out If Cody williams can. Play they need to figure out What Keyante george actually looks like off the. Ball they need to figure, out you, know whoever they, draft what he looks. Like they need somebody who can throw a love pass The Walker, kessler you, know or Get Walker kessler the ball when he's.
Open they need all of these guys that they need to. DEVELOP i think the development has been short changed by the fact that they've been so deficient at that point guard. Spot so you, know whether they go out and you, know get a star or or try to get a, star or whether they want to tank next year or be competitive next. Year to, me just finding a veteran point guard who can run AN nba, offense uh is their highest.
Priority all, Right SO i guess, ultimately, uh that leaves us with the potential of them being in the same spot next. Year, Right so give us give us a quick primer on some of the Names jazz fans should be familiar with throughout the course of this upcoming college season or. Whatever as far as maybe hope for next year's draft.
Cycle, well obviously you have you Know Aged, debansas you know, uh and you, Know jazz fans won't have any issues watching him because he'll be at B. Yu they won't have any issues Watching Darren peterson because he'll be At. Kansas, uh so he'll be in the big twelve foot. Print those are the two and and Obviously Cam boozer Obviously Cam boozer at. Three you, know so he's going to be a. Duke and you know those are you, know those are some of the names that that that should be.
Watched But Nata, mint who's going to be A. Tennessee he's six or ten six four eleven, shooter can really handle the. Ball he's kind of a you, know a skinny power, forward but a really really skilled. Player you. Know Kareem, Lopez, uh you, know he's he's an international player WHO i really. Like you, Know Christian. KNACK i don't know IF i pronounced his name, right but he's going to be In. Houston he's always also in in in the in the in the big twelve, footprint you.
Know so it's going to be a, deep really really talented. Draft. Uh AND i can tell, you you, know the twenty six, draft uh is one of the best draft classes THAT i have. SEEN i think it has a chance to be uh in that realm of three ninety six those draft classes that have you, know come along and you know eighty four that have produced a bunch Of hall of.
Famers all, Right, tom thanks for the, time man Enjoyed, Denver travel safe Well chat.
Soon no. Problem thank. You my, Guy Tony.
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