It's been a while, but our good friend from the Desert ret News, Sarah Todd, stops by on a Tuesday afternoon. Sarah, Happy Tuesday.
How are you happy Tuesday? Since Tuesday?
What a beautiful day it is. It is a beautiful day. And we've got a lot to.
Do with you because it's been a minute since we've been able to connect.
So we'll start with the little Jazz draft stuff.
And I just wonder what your understanding is of this narrative surrounding Ace at Ace Bailey, who the Jazz landed on a number five and the whole Hey, he doesn't want to be here, his camp doesn't want him to be in Salt Lake City, and then there's rumors that he won't report all of the things, and I can't cooperate any of them. But your thoughts on the Jazz drafting Ace and your understanding of the narrative surrounding that selection.
Yeah, I mean I think that what I expected to happen is what happened, right like, once once Ace Bailey was here, once you get him in the building, you know, once the rows behind the dollar sign are made clear on the rookie contract and everything else, kind of falls into place, and that's how I kind of expected this to play out. I didn't expect him to not report.
It's my understanding that the top five team that he was rumored to have his team to have not said that he would report to was not the Utah Jazz. But you know, that's neither here nor there at this point, right But I think that the biggest thing that I can say is that the narrative that kind of started to formulate about maybe Ace being entitled and not really you know, knowing how this process works and being like
an arrogant kid, that it was expecting too much. That's the part that I didn't appreciate, because you know, we're talking about an eighteen year old kid. We're talking about a literal teenager who had people in his corner handling his business and that they were the ones that were representing him and speaking on behalf for him during the pre process. And I think that that was all done in a very misguided fashion. And now we move on from it.
As far as what you think he can be as a player for the Jazz as he grows, I mean, it's gonna be tough because there are very few eighteen year olds in our name Lebron James.
That step in and look like they're ready.
But and we'll get to some of the decisions that have already been made, it does indicate that there should be plenty of minutes for him.
I think a lot of fans are excited about that.
So I'll ask a two parter, what do you think it looks like immediately and what s your Jazz fans hope it looks like eventually?
Immediately? Probably not gonna look great, right, you said it. There's not a lot of guys that come into this league and look perfect and ready and you know, polished right away. But I think that prior to Draft night, on the Utah Jazz roster there was probably not a single player on the roster, But Jazz fans could have gone out and got his jersey and been like, yes, this is going to be a guy that's going to
be a part of the future, no questions asked. Right, even if we're talking about guys like Lowry, Markinen and Walker Kessler, those are not guarantees. Like the Jazz are going to hear offers that come in for them and if one makes sense, they'll make it. And so there and like the young guys on this roster currently, Like, yeah, there's been some flashes of potential, but there's nothing that we've seen at this point that says like absolutely no
questions asked. Isaiah Collier is a building block for the future, right, Like there's just not a player on the team, and so then Draft night comes in. Ace Dailey is someone that has potential to be a clear building block, So like, what could we see in the future. This kid could be really good. He has all star potential, and we don't know if he's going to reach that feeling. We don't know what's going to happen, and that's part of like the risk of all of this and building teams.
But if you're looking towards like what the Jazz are trying to do, he could be one of the certain building blocks.
I feel the same way, And I also feel like this fan base has been a little and look it, we should be very clear, Sarah, as you and I visit throughout the course of the off season then into next season. This appears that it will be another very long year from a standpoint of wins and losses, but at least there's like a plan starting to formulate a little bit, and I do feel like there's genuine excitement in the community for Jazz fans about what Ace could eventually be.
Are you getting kind of the same vibe?
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean I think that you know me and you both said when you know Austin Ainge was hired, and the question was asked why Sean O'Connell, like, you know, what's your philosophy on manipulating player minutes and availability in order to tank? And he said, you won't see that this year. The sub tweet on that was because we won't have the players on the roster that we need to manipulate their minutes, right, And that's what we're seeing.
You don't need to sit Jordan Clarkson out anymore because they've bought out his contract. You don't need to worry about sitting a healthy Colin Sexton because they've traded him. Now they bring in use of Nurkic, and a lot of fans see that and they think, why would you give up like a twenty six year old guy who's really efficient shooter for someone who's basically like a washed backup center. Well, because the Jazz don't want to win, that's why. And so they got what they wanted out
of that deal. They got the exact amount of expiring money that Colin Sexton would have been on, and they got someone that they don't have to worry about sitting on the bench when he's healthy. And so I think that you're yes, Jazz fans are absolutely in for another long season. It's not going to be very good, but at least you are going to see exactly what we have out of all of the young guys there is.
There will be no lack of opportunity for them to get on the floor and they're going to be competing against each other and competing for their next contracts.
So that brings us to and it's Walt. It's not Walter, it's wall Clayton Junior. That's what he wants to be called. And if that's what he wants, we'll give it to him. So I'll call him Walt. And I'm a little conflicted about this. I think where I've landed. And I thought Brad Stevens comment was interesting when he asked he was asked about Austin trading up for wal Clayton Junior, and he said, I could have told you two years ago Austin was going to go.
Trade up for him.
So this is a player Austin has liked for a long time, and so where I've landed on it is and look, only time will tell.
We'll see how it manifests. But if that's your guy, go get them.
Okay, if that's the guy you've identified, you've done your calculation, go get them. But you trade twenty one for eighteen, and then you also trade three second round picks, which is also not nothing to only move up three spots. Like I said, my net net is, if Walt's the guy, go get him.
But what's your take on the transaction?
I think it's fall And let's say places you like, if that's the guy that you wanted, if that's the guy that you singled out and you really wanted to get him, and you heard that Miami was gonna pick him before you wanted to, and all you had to do was to give up some seconds to move up, Sure, go get the guy that you really really want. Of course, how that plays out in the future is going to determine whether or not it was a good a good move to make. And also with you like, three seconds
isn't nothing. But if it's three second round picks for a guy that you really believe in that then turns into somebody that could be like a full rotation player
for a good number of years. Then, like it's hard to find those players in the second round, right, Like those are those are such like luck of the draw picks in the second round that you don't always know whether it's gonna be you know, Nikola Jokic or some guy that you never heard of even after Draft night because he never even played a day in the NBA, right, And so it's kind of a this or that and
time will tell. But I'm fine with it, you know, Like I like I like that the Jazz took Walter Clayton junior and even in the second round when they picked John Tanji, like a couple of guys that just aren't eighteen. Right, You've got a bunch of guys who came in off one and done years in college. And I just like that they have some guys that are going to come in and like actually can play some basketball and maybe don't need like the maturation time that
the others need. That doesn't mean that they're going to be great, but I just think that it's good that it's on the roster, that not everybody is an actual teenager.
Well said, let's let's go back to the Sexton deal.
You outlined it well, and we could just bottom line it with your answer, but I'll follow up asking if you are surprised that there wasn't better value out there for Colin who's coming off a good year and he's one of the players that has shown up shown he's a pro shot over forty percent from three years, about nineteen points a night. And to your earlier point, that
may have been the only motivation. They wanted a matching salary and a player that you don't need to play because Nurkicch is no longer, you know, anything other than a vet. They can give you ten or twelve minutes to night. But were you surprised there wasn't more value in return with that transaction for the Jazz.
A little bit? Right? I think that, especially if you're thinking about John Collins the way that he has kind of improved his offensive game since coming to Utah, and then Colin Sexton, he showed that he can be a little bit more of a distributor. Right Like, it looked like these were positive value guys. But I think there's a couple of things that came to mind kind of right after the initial like sticker shock. And that's obviously not to say John Collins is gone, but I assume
that he will be at some point. Number One, these are guys that looked really good on the Jazz, and that is a bar that is very low in the NBA as of today. I mean, when you're playing on the absolute worst defensive team in the league and you're playing on a team that has the least amount of wins and the minutes that you play look good, that's relative.
And number two, the value of these players might not necessarily been the value of them in particular, but maybe just the value of the Jazz is negotiating power in these situations. The rest of the NBA knows exactly what the Jazz are doing. They know that they need to get off these veteran expiring deals. They know that they want a runway for the young players to play, and
so they the Jazz don't really have leverage here. It's like, well, you want us to take on a contract that you don't want, and you want a player that's also on expiring to come back, like what's in it for us, especially for like, let's look at Charlotte, like, it's not like they need a bunch of guards. And so it doesn't really really shock me once I start to think about it that the rest of the league is like, hey, utadd what can you even show us that proves that
the Ers are good players? That they played kind of good on the worst team in the league. That doesn't really say much.
Yeah, no, well said, all right, now this moves us over to Jordan Clarkson couple of different layers to this question. I have been a little bit surprised at how sad a lot of people are to see JC go. You know, last couple of years, the on court stuff just wasn't great. The advanced numbers weren't great, the usage, the true shooting percentage. He just none of us are as young as we used to be. And you know, he's not the guy
that won six Man of the Year. You know, in retrospect, the trade that that xanak and and that group made for him was really good, sending Dante in a couple of second rounders to Cleveland for him. But I think you'll have better perspective on this than I do. As somebody who's on the beat, and I always say this, you should listen to the beat writers. They know more
than any of us. It does feel like throughout this four year pivot, clunky rebuild that at best has been mediocre and at worst has been embarrassing, he's kind of been a north star, like a bright spot for the organization, bright spot for the locker room. So as as Clarkson walks out the door and reportedly he is going to sign with the Knicks, can you put some perspective on why a lot of people feel like this is kind of a sad day.
Yeah. I think even the on court stuff, you know, is has context, right, Like, you know, Jordan getting the ball from a bunch of rookies or second year guys with five seconds on a shot clog is not really the best way to operate, and you know, or another situation if you imagine, you know, Jordan's in an ISO situation on the right wing and he looks over and the guy that's open from three is Isaiah Collier, who can't shoot threes, and I probably wouldn't want to pass
the ball either, And so I think that it was just a really weird situation and so that led to some bad numbers. Part of it is obviously what you said, right, father time is undefeated. He's not the man that he used to be. All of that's true too, But I think that he was also like the last three and a half years really took a toll on him. I mean, even that last year with the Donovan and Rudy team,
that took a toll on those players. And he was the last player on this team that had ties to that team, and so I don't think that he ever really got to recover and move on from that because he was still here. And so, yeah, it didn't look great. And I'm I'm honestly really happy that he gets a chance to go play for a team that's actually gonna play for some meaningful basketball, like the game's mattering. Makes me happy for Jordan, and he was kind of a
bright spot. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that the Jazz held on to him a little bit, is because he was a familiar face, he was a sellable name. He's somebody that could get butts in seats. He was also I mean, he has an incredible wealth of knowledge about the NBA, like he might not have ever been the guy on a team, but he has been on good teams and he's been around a lot of really great players, and so he was a good guy who was fun to be around for these young guys,
and he could also take them under their wing. And it wasn't weird when he was offering advice because it felt like it came from a good place. And so he was great for this team and he was great for the fans. It is absolutely no surprise to me that someone was his personality and the amount of slagger that he has endeared himself so much to the fans so quickly, and it's gonna really leave a hole for the Jazz. I mean, there's no one like Jordan Clarkson's.
Now I'm going to ask you a follow up, just like I did with Colin, and the answer could be exactly the same, and it's fine. But I am curious as to whether or not you're a bit surprised that the Jazz only option with Jordan was essentially they cut him. I mean, it's a it's a buyout situation where it saves the team some money, but are you surprised they couldn't get anything on the open market for Jordan Clarkson.
No, I'm not super surprised. I know that they tried to move him, you know, at least last year and weren't able to get some I think the thing is, it's like, do you want to take on another contract and possibly give up maybe a second or any kind of picked to attach to him when what you really want is money off the books and to keep the
rest of your assets. I mean, I think that it makes a little bit more sense when you're looking at Colin because there was more money involved there and they were able to get a backup center in the process. But for Jordan, I think that it made a lot of sense to just like cut ties and just give him a chance to go sign with someone else who
wants him. And for those teams who you know, I think the Knicks are I'm going to be putting him on a vat minimum this year, which is basically the amount of money that he gave up in the buyout, and so he doesn't lose money this year, the Jazz save a little bit of money and get his contract off the books. I think that this is kind of a win win in a bit of a lose lose situation. If that makes sense.
It does so.
As I talk about all the time when it comes to teams that are in the spot the Jazz are in, there is a salary floor that you have to hit. Everyone talks about the second apron, the salary cap, the luxury tax. Well, you also have to spend a minimum amount of money on your roster. And this year's salary floor is just about one hundred and forty million. If my numbers in front of me are correct. The Jazz are at one hundred and fifty point six million right now,
which leads us to John Collins. Now, any transaction they'll bring money back. My point is John just might be a guy that you're fine paying for one more year. You know, doesn't necessarily distract or dissuade you from what you're trying to accomplish this season. But more noise around John Collins potentially being moved off of by the Utah Jazz.
Any insight on what's next for the Jazz and John.
I know that the Jazz have been working to move off of him to find a trade partner. So far, it's been hard for them to find something that like
nets them a positive result. Looking at the same thing as Collinsext and right, like, no one was going to give the Jazz good things to take on a contract that they didn't want anymore, and so they had to add a second and so then that's kind of a negative net, right you got to give up something to get it, And that's not really what the Jazz wanted to do with John, considering how much he kind of
revamped his offensive games. That being said, the league still knows that he's not really a great defensive player, and he didn't really show that he was much better with the Jazz. I mean, it's hard to show that you're a great defensive player when you're on a team that is the worst defensive team. So I think that it's been difficult. That being said, if he ends up being a player they keep and tell him he doesn't have to report. If they want to buy him out, that's
a possibility too. They could also keep him around, like they are not the Jazz are not opposed to just letting John Collins deal expiring, because once you've got you know, John Collins, Colin Sexton or use of nurkice now Jordan Clark sends the money off the books for all those you know, contracts at the at the end of this upcoming season. That gives them a lot of wiggle room and a lot of cap space, and so I just I think that you're right. If he ends up being here,
I think that they can maneuver around that. But they've still got options to go and maybe they'll be able to pull something together and find a trade partner before the end of the offseason.
I know we've discussed this, but it's been a minute. So I'm just going to bring up the two names that you know, feel like they're very good players, but do they fit the timeline? And it's weird to say that about Walker Kessler, but you know, I'll ask you whether or not you have any recent intel on the Jazz potentially fielding and phone calls and either Walker or Lowry. I mean, I talk about this now every day now that Austin is in charge. It's not marry to any
of these guys. Didn't draft him, didn't trade for him. Like I said, I have nothing but good things to say about both these players. I think they both have played well here. But your thoughts on the potential of the Jazz doing anything at all with either Lowry or Walker.
Yeah, I think that. You know, if you ask me the same question maybe a year ago, i'd had a little bit of a different answer, and at that point it'd be like, you know, these are the guys that it's going to be really hard to take out of
the jazz team. They want to keep them. I'm a little bit still in that camp, but I think that now the way that I've changed is at this point it feels like it's kind of fifty to fifty if the right deal comes along and someone sweetens the pot for the jazz in a way that makes it hard to say no, you're right, Austin is not married to this situation. He didn't pick these guys, he didn't make those deals, and if they get something that looks better
for the future, then they're going to do it. That being said, I know that the jazz, the front office, everyone involved, they would love for Lowry and Walker to be a part of the future. They would love for them to turn into two of those building blocks and be a part of the next core of a great jazz team. But they are not guaranteed, and they will be listening to phone calls that come in.
All right, before I say you loose.
I think an interesting dynamic of this season, and I just talked about this with a couple of the NBA guests we've had on Todayaylor Hendrix, Cody Williams, Keyante, George, Bryce sen Siba, and Isaiah Collier all have contracts which are team options next year. So it could be I'm not saying it will be, and I have no inside here, but it could be the final year for these players if the Jazz have done their calculation on them and have decided it's not going to work. It's rare this happens,
but it is something worth talking about. So those five players, Taylor Hendrix, Cody Williams, Keyante, George, Bryce Sensaba, Isaiah Collier, all playing on contracts this year. That could be a situation where the team doesn't pick it up next year. What are your thoughts on the calculations that have been done on those five.
I mean, I fully wouldn't expect that to be the case for Taylor or Cody, because I don't think that
there's been enough calculation at all. I think that you want as much time looking at those guys as you can possibly get, because both of them came in looking like Bambi, right, like Skinny, a little bit like wonky eyed, not knowing where to go at times, and and just uh, the first summer after the rookie seasons were so so important, this one for Cody, last season for Taylor, and the unfortunate injury that Taylor gets then set him back a year.
And so I just don't think that you've had enough time to look at Taylor, to look at Cody, and to know what you're going to be getting out of those players, for Isaiah, for Keyante, for any of the other young guys that you know, Bryce, anybody that else we might be talking about. It's it's difficult. I think that this summer is really really important for all of them. I would kind of be surprised if the Jazz decided to like just make this upcoming season their their last season.
A lot of a lot of them have. You know, these player options have to be decided like a year in advance, right, and so like this summer, the player or the team options, it's not about this upcoming season, It's about the following season. And so I would be really surprised if they didn't at least keep on keep a hold of everyone, like through this season and the next season to get like a full clear picture of what they have in those players. But yeah, this summer
is really really important. If guys look like they're disinterested or they haven't improved or or any of those things, Yeah, hard decisions are coming.
Yeah, there's no doubt. All Right, Sarah, it's been too long. Thanks so much for the time. Keep up the great work and we'll chat soon.
It okay, Yeah, anytime?
S fence all right, our friend Sarah Todd from the des Red News. She also has covered the seventy six ers and the Warriors. She's been doing it at a very high level. She's won Utah Sports Ride of the Year a couple of different times, most recently last year. She's on Twitter at NBA sarahs where you find her