I keep a close watch on this heart of mine. I keep mynes wide open all the time.
A Friday edition of The Drive, rolling along Porter Larson County Parks, filling in for Spence.
He'll be back on Monday.
Of course, he'll be back on a Monday recapping NBA Finals, and we will have a champion crowned. Oh a little over forty eight hours from right now, Game seven Indiana and Oklahoma City. Thanks to a Game six win the Indiana Pacers last night, Howard Beck joins us to discuss that and more and preview Game seven, Howard usually Spence brings you in with some hipster tune. I don't know
that I've ever gotten your Johnny Cash take. I know it's not necessarily your lane, but I feel like you have good enough taste that you get it.
I mean, listen, Johnny Cash is the original hipster, right right. So, And I was wearing black last night of the game, thinking that it was a close out, and we thought that was appropriate. But I and everybody else are idiots, and it was not a close out. And here we go. I'm on the way to the airport to go to Oklahoma City once more, this time through Charlotte. I think I have explored every airport hub in the country in the course of the last two and a half weeks
bouncing between these cities. So yeah, where we go. Game seven.
Well, now that you've done the Man in Black part, Game seven on Sunday, make sure you listen to in the morning Sunday morning, coming down, just on your way to the arena. Set the stage, set the vibes. Start with a good Johnny Cash tune.
All right.
Game six, the Pacers come in. Tyrese Halliburton questionable coming into tip off. Obviously, I think most of us, really anyone who has watched the Pacers this year, really expected Tyrese to play. The question was what was he going to give you after being clearly kind of hobbled in a Game five? Well, he was really good, and he was really good in a key moment in that second
quarter that Indiana didn't look back from. What was What was your full read on on Game seven, specifically around Tyrese Halliburton and the Pacers that refused to die.
It's funny because in the course of any regular season, we always get these moments where somebody's hurt. It's a sprained ankle or tweaked their knee or whatever, and it's the kind of thing like, well, this he's going to be out for a week. But you know, if we were a game seven of the finals, you know he would play, you know what I mean? We get that
a lot. And here we had like the exact version of this where it was like it's game six of the finals and elimination facing them, and it was the kind of thing where if this were the regular season, I think Tyre's Halliburton would have been out, you know, a few days a week, a couple weeks whatever, just to let it heal. And but you also knew, you knew he's going to try to play as long as the medical staff didn't tell him, no, you're you're at
major risk. You also knew that because of the way the finals are structured these days, there's so much time in between that you can get the full not quite seventy two hours, but it was pretty close to three days of round the clock treatment, which it sounds like is what happened. And credit to the medical staff, and then credit to and training staff, and credit to Tyrese
Haliburton for finding way through it. He did, look, I thought early on a little bit hobbled or just dragging it a little, and then it just seems like, whether it's adrenaline kicking in, whether it's just the muscles warming up, whatever it may be. After a while you forgot that he was allegedly hurt at all. And I don't mean to say allegedly like he's not, like he definitely is. But it passed out of your mind so quickly because he looked good, Like, you know, he hit that first three.
It was like his first field goal since Game four and then Game five had been just so miserable for him. He looked in a much better rhythm. And maybe it's a little bit of it also just adjusting to the fact that, Okay, my cat's not going to feel one hundred percent. I got to find a way to still do what I do. But like you know, he was sprinting and diving on the floor, you know, close to diving out of bounds for a loose ball, and there was no hesitation there, and I thought all those were
really good signs. And then yeah, he gets in a rhythm. And then the other thing is and Zach Low and I talked about this on his pod with the Ringer this morning, that you know, the way the Pacers are built is helpful in a sense in a case like this, because as important as Tyree's Haliburton is to them, as important as as Siakam is to them, this is not an iso ball team. This is not a give it to your star and get out of the way kind
of team. This has always been, you know, there's their strength has been ball and player movement and getting in a rhythm and getting everybody going. And Tyres doesn't have to bring the ball up every time, he doesn't have to dominate the ball every time. That gives him room to kind of ease into the game while you know you Nemhart's handling or other guys are moving it around. And I think that benefited him and it benefited them. But all that said, Porter, I did not see a
blowout in the pacers favor coming. I'm not surprised that they won, but the fact that they blew the Thunder out so easily was a bit of a.
SHOCKERU Yeah, because to me, the Thunder had a chance to close this series out obviously, and they showed a really rough version of themselves, especially in that second quarter. The Pacers had a chance to grab full control of this series when they didn't show their best down the stretch in Game four. So, as you kind of diagnosed these two teams through six games, which team do you expect to handle the biggest moments better in Game seven?
I mean, we've seen the best and worst of both of them, and so there's no one indication that's going to tell you, oh, this is how it should go. On Sunday, you lean towards the Thunder for being at home and their crowd is insane and intense, and it's I think it's allowed us to ren in the league. With all due respect to Indiana and everybody else and Indiana,
the Pacers fans were incredible last night. But the Thunders the one arena where I've been recently where I feel like my head's just going to explode, and they never stop.
It's not just loud occasionally, it's basically from beginning to end unless the Pacers take them out of it, which is going to be their goal obviously, So I would lean Thunder, but listen, I think by now we should realize not just in this series, but in this postseason, the Pacers can win anywhere they have been underestimated by all of us, myself included, multiple times. They are they're very steady. They never seem to get out of character or out of rhythm. Whereas the thunder last night, I
think that's exactly what happened to them. Maybe the moment was too big. And you know, they are one of the youngest teams of all time to be in the finals, and if they win, will be one of the youngest all time to win the championship. But they their demeanor belies that. You know, when they're on the podium, pregame, post game, between games, the way they are in the game, they very rarely seem rattled. They're very steady personalities. They're pretty sedate is almost too strong of a word, but
they're really even keeled. Guys from Shade to Jenn Williams chat all of them and diagnote the coaches that way too. But it doesn't mean you can't get rattled inside. Shaye was the only one who admitted it last night. You know, the question was kind of posed to all of them. Did the fact that you knew what was waiting for you, that you know, the trophies in the house, the Champagne the beerer on ice and you know this, this moment is here. Do you think it's seeped in a little bit?
Pretty much everybody denied that and said now and now the emotions weren't in the way, but Shay kind of let on that he thought that could have been the case. And then it reminds you, Oh, yeah, for all their steadiness, they are really young and this is their first time through and we'll see who's steadier on Sunday.
And you mentioned that steadiness. Man, if you go back to just post Christmas time, Indiana has been so consistent. And I know that is flown under the radar because they're in Indiana, they don't necessarily get a bunch of primetime games. But for the folks who we talked about this with Zach Harper and it'll be part of the
conversation going forward. For the folks who think this is a little fluky, I think that's really just looking at like how some of the games have happened, some of the comebacks and whatnot, and not the body of work. And I think that's kind of a slight to Rick Carlisle, what is your impression of what he has done and how impressive. This run has been from an adjustment standpoint, from a scheme of standpoint, and of course, as you mentioned, it is the head coach's job to keep these guys steady.
Yeah, and quick heads up. We are pulling into the airport, so I'll probably put you guys on a hold for just a second when we pull up to the curb in a minute. But when we can keep going. You know, Carlisle obviously has has you know, been here before, you know, won that championship with the Mavericks back in twenty eleven against the Heat and they were the underdog then too,
uh by quite a bit. And and and if he pulls this off, he'll have been you know, uh, you know, the steward of two of the greatest uh uh you know upsets in the NBA Finals history. I think his experience is his experience, and then the evantage he has over Dagnault is you know, coming through a little. Dagnault's
a great coach. But you know, Dagnault has has made what look like in retrospect maybe I don't know, not panic changes, but just ill advised changes, you know, going away from the double bigs and then going back to them at times, and and then starting second halves with Caruso instead of Hartenstein, and and you know, not everything has really worked out that well. A lot of this just ends up being execution anyway, So it's hard to know how much of this is scheme. Do you think
that Carlisle has mixed it up? You know, their coverages on Shame particular, and that has maybe thrown him off a little bit, And I think that is to Carlisle's credit. And I just think in general, the Pacers always seem ready. They may not, they might not win, but they always seem ready. And that's you know, that's that's you know, job one of the coach is have your guys in a position where they know what the plan is and hope they execute it well. And uh, you know, just
you know, play play to their character. And the Pacers have been very consistent in that regard.
No matter what happens coming up Sunday night, you get the sense these teams are going to be right up there for years to come, with the way that they've organized themselves, the way they structure the roster, the way they operate as an organization, and when you look at the future of this.
League, Yeah, well, I mean, let's talk about the Thunder first. Like we know, we've talked about how young they are. We know that Sam Presty has you know, assembled, you know, one of the biggest war chests of draft picks in history. And so to win the championship potentially, or even if they don't, just to be in the finals and then come out of it where you also have you know, this is an incredible American poe. Oh yeah, this is good here. Okay, okay, okay, sorry. You know they're they're
they're well positioned to adjust. And the thing is, you know, we're in this era with you know, the Second Apron and all these harsh penalties under the salary cap. So what you really need is flexibility because you want to be able to keep your stars together as long as possible. To do that, you might have to shed role players at times. We've seen that with Denver and Milwaukee and other teams in recent years where they got, you know, won a championship or got to the finals and then
you can't keep it together. The Thunder have a better chance than most because of the flexibility that that Presty has created. The Pacers not quite as much, but still you know their core is young, and you know was still affordable with regard to the cap. I think both of these teams, yes, should be together for a while.
But it's just in today's NBA it's hard to assume anything beyond a couple of years because the system is set up to make you give up players once they become, you know, valued enough to be a little more expensive, and then you're up against all these different limits and the next thing, you know, to let a guy walk. And so you don't want to make too grand of a prediction. We will have a seventh champion in seven years and we're in an era without dynasties, and there
are reasons for that that are structural. But yes, the hope would be based on what we've seen with these teams and the way they're structured, they should be around for a bit.
You mentioned that structural aspect too, and I mean it has a lot to do with Adam Silver's tenure at the NBA, and you know how much that correlates. I think you could you could parse in between that, But I do wonder, Howard, what you think might change that, not necessarily that structure, but what organization. Maybe it is okay. See, maybe it's a team in a bigger market that is
able to accumulate the way Okase did. Somehow, how is a dynasty going to be able to break through in an era where there clearly is a structure in place. As you mentioned, there's gonna be a seventh NBA championship in the last seven years. A lot of people like that that you know, parody. It's not characteristic of the NBA, even when you go back years past. It was the Celtics, it was the Lakers. There were dynasties all over until
the last decade. And I wonder if you think that there's any sort of window to reverse that.
This may be a permanent state of affairs. I mean, you never say never, and you never say permanent in this league, but I mean it is set up in a way that is harder to navigate than any system
the NBA has ever had. And this is sort of what Adam Silver has wanted and what the league has wanted, where a team like you know, the Warriors, or even the Clippers, though they never won the championship, those are the two teams that really, you know, kind of got under the skin of all the other owners where they were spending hundreds of millions in luxury taxes because the
money was not an issue for them. They're you know, billionaire owners who didn't mind losing money if it meant winning, if it meant assembling as much talent as they could. And the rest of the league is, you know, basically said that's not what we want. We want talent to be more evenly distributed. We don't want any one team to be able to commandeer you know, two, three four max guys. And so the penalties now are beyond just
luxury taxes. It's you lose the ability to make trades, you lose cap exceptions, you lose all these other flexibility tools that are really necessary, especially if you have injuries or if a guy you know leaves for some reason but you're still way over the cap. They've made it almost impossible if you go beyond certain thresholds to keep
a team functional. And we're seeing that with Phoenix, and that's why they're going to be trading Kevin Durant and why they would trade Bradley Beale if they could, and why they should trade Devin Booker frankly, because they're they're going nowhere regardless. So I don't know if a dynasty is actually possible, Like some team's going to have to actually prove it to us and defy this system somewhere
along the way. And maybe that will be Oklahoma, maybe it'll be Indiana for all we know, maybe it'll be some other team that we can't see coming. But the second your guys are talented enough to earn max contracts, you're on the clock. Because once you have two guys making Max, it's really hard to keep a lot of like even high level role players around them. Every single player wherever their station is a MAX guy, a low max guy. If you've drafted well and you've developed well,
they're going to increase their value. And when they increase their value, they're going to want more money. And if you're spending that money on them, means you now hit the first apron and the second apron you have to then make tough decisions and shed them. That's just the way the system is set up. And you know, I don't know what that will mean for continuity overall, but you know, after the nug it's how hard it's been to sustain since they won their championship.
It is tough, and I've loved this series, the Carlisle impact, the stars, the star role players, and the back and forth. If there was a key role player that you think is going to make the biggest difference coming up Sunday, who would you pick?
Which player makes the biggest difference?
A star role player, not necessarily star, but a star role player out of had that second tier in that group again.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean we saw, like, you know, Nie Smith had a couple of big shots last night. He's been kind of quiet for a bit. You could see a n Smith game or an M. Hark game on the Indiana side, on the thunder side of it. I mean, Chet Holmgren hasn't had a great series yet, but you know, they don't really look to him as a scorer anyway. But you wonder if there's like you know, an Aaron Wiggins game coming or an House Caruso game coming either This could go any number
of ways. I as with the outcome. I wouldn't hazard a guess. I got guys that got time for like maybe one more before I got a jump, Well.
Howard, I guess. Then we'll get your read on on game seven. Listen I think everything about this series points to your head choosing Oklahoma City because of the roster, because of the home court, because of all of the above. But for me, there's still a feeling. They're still feeling deep down inside, even though my head's telling me no, that the Pacers are going to win this damn game. And that's something I can't get away from. It's something I said before Game six, and it's here we are,
Game seven. Howard, your thoughts going into this one.
The Thunder have an incredible record at home, and they have, you know, you know, rarely lost consecutive games. You know, the logical things point to them winning it. But I hear you there's a I feel like there's a sense now the Pacers there's this kind of magic to them, and you know, you know, it doesn't matter, you know, what the talent ledger looks like, or what the depth looks like, or what Haliburton's calf looks like. They just always seem to be able to pull it out. I
don't know. I mean, honestly, guys, it's a coinslip. Zachlo and I talked about this on the pod today. I think he ended up picking the Thunder by four. I said, I thought the thunder maybe by a little bit more than that, Like they'll they'll have a four point lead and expanded the last couple of minutes. But like we're just we're guessing. I mean, but let's be honest. Where
we're at seven for a reason, I don't know. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy it and then try to write something semi cohering for Monday morning.
Well, let us know where they can. Let the folks know where they can find that. I know you're at the Ringer doing all the stuff. Let the folks know where they can find your content at Howard Beck of course on Blue Sky mostly at the moment, but folks want to find your stuff on Game seven or the recap laid up yeap at the.
Ringer dot com. Something will be up Monday morning, and on the Real Ones podcast, which I will be back doing probably on Tuesday to wrap this all up. And of course yes at Howard Beck on Blue Sky and only Blue Sky.
Appreciated Howard Beck. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks for Let's take care Howard Beck.
Of course, of the Ringer, he mentioned the Real Ones podcast. That's what Roger Bell if you guys haven't listened to former jazz man, Oh yeah, you knew Rasja pretty well.
Rajah Bell Ring the Bell. I loved Roger was a good dude and I connected pretty well.
Yeah, Howard does a pretty regular podcast with Rosa and it's a it's a fun show. He does really good work. I mentioned earlier, I've been reading Howard. Obviously the podcast stuff wasn't around when I was a young tyke, but I've been reading the words of Howard Beck since I was probably like seven or eight years old. So cool to always chat with him, talking to MBA.
So the one thing going into this game seven that I know we're going to hear it's on and I couldn't disagree more is the this team has more pressure.
Why Why is Marv Albert saying it?
I don't know why Marv wou'd say it. Yeah, but anyway, they'll come on, don't keep doing it. Team has more pressure from downtown at the Broadway Media studios in downtown. Now the the they'll do that all the time, a ton of media will do that. Well, this tvash all the pressure, all the pressure's on them. That's not true. You don't think there's pressure on Indiana. There's tons of pressure on Indiana. They have to get off to a better start, in my opinion than Oklahoma City does. I
think they're more capable. Indiana has to play a cleaner game, and I think Zach Harper was alluding to that when he talked about turnovers. Indiana turns it over, touchdown, right, Okay, see turns it over all right, there's a storm, time out, you can get the crowd back in the game. So here's what I know when I've watched these two teams when each of them has been in the cat bird seat. Not great. Last night Oka see not great? That get
end of Game four with Indiana not great. So that's what I'm excited about for this because I like to see it when a team has that chance, when it's like, oh my gosh, we're gonna in this thing. Oh my gosh, what what do you do in that moment? How do you handle that?
Do you do? You finish right? Or finish it?
Just a moment gets you. So this is what I've always loved about the Jazz and the history of their NBA Finals. The Flu game is always remembered for while Jordan willed them back and this and that. That's the story. But the truth is the Utah Jazz were in position where it was like, oh my gosh, they're up sixteen with a sick Michael Jordan.
Something about three two lead.
They're they're about to do this that Go watch the final six minutes of that flu game. Yeah, littered with mistakes by the Jazz was that they face.
Played, including a turnover in the last chuck cluck.
Weirdest stuff you've ever seen ever, Malone making weird decisions, horn a sex with a dumb foul stocking, a couple of key mistakes, including the turnover characters Brian Russell, you know it's double pippin. Who we leaving open? Michael Jordan, poor boss. I mean, everything you could ever see. It's because the Jazz, who were this notable underdog, all of a sudden it's like, wait, we might win this thing. So that's why when they're like I'm curious to see
how a team fights back from adversity. Sure, I'm curious to see which team handles success in game seven.
Yeah, and I don't totally disagree with you. There's I mean, there is an immeasurable amount of pressure on both teams. I will say winning that game six maybe like a small percentage of the pressure. Maybe the pendulum of pressure moved a little bit in the direction of Oklahoma City, because then you got to go to your home court and Tony. If let's say Indiana just opens up hot from the from the field, not anything spectacular, they just hit four of their first five threes, and it's twelve
two and it's game seven. That is when that little bit of pressure that sometimes is not measurable, that's when you feel that.
Shift in a big way.
And if you're at home and it's silent and it's game seven and you're all of a sudden down by ten, that's a situation where I think you can't see pressure. You can see momentum in sports, even though many will argue neither of those are real things.
Yeah, if you had a gloom and doom fan base, right right, Philly, Matt's brig.
Lely anybody, if you get to the Austin.
You know, But Oklahoma City, I don't think they have that. I don't I don't think they have that gloom and dooms.
I'm just talking about the bench though.
Yeah, oh no, no, you're right, No, I know what's talking about, like any team can. It's unique because we don't really know until they.
Get there exactly.
I just know I've watched each of these teams with a chance to be in the true Cappert seat, want to close out and then one to take full control three to one. All that and uh not good, Bob, like actually quite poor.
There's been quite that's it could be one of those games where it's so tense because of that. Oh yeah, because as you mentioned, we've not seen any of these guys in this position a game seven in the NBA Finals, So you know, some some games come to mind. I talked about it, I think earlier with you the Jazz Nuggets. I think the final it was seventy to seventy, you know, late late in the game, before the free throw started
to come. In one of those games, I don't think with the pace that these two teams play at, you'll see that. But with the urgency, with the kind of anxiety surrounding a game seven, I wouldn't be as surprised if you see a game that doesn't get to the hundred point more.
That was my thought, So I don't I wouldn't be a surprised.
I don't know if it's close, I don't see it going to the hundreds. I just don't see this.
But if one team runs away with it then yet then fine.
But if we if it's tight, oh I see, you know, mid nineties, low nineties. I just kind of getting into those grinding few minutes, right. It's fun how that happens. That happened with that. Warriors Calves Game seven, I think we could be in for that. I'm so fired up for this, man, this is gonna be awesome.
Warriors Calves Game seven. I think that no one scored for like eight minutes in the fourth quarter. Well, in every possession, it's still so fun.
The pins and needles, oh, every pass, everything, every time the ball was in the air. You just feel like every possession so precious. I love that we have that coming up Sunday.
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Keep It right Here.
It's the Drive Porter Larson Tony Parks filling in for Spence check Its on a Friday edition ahead of a Game seven that comes your way Sunday at five, tip off at six Right here on Utah's number one sports talk. This is ESPN seven hundred ninety two point one FM and at ESPN seven hundred Sports dot com