I do feel like this song encapsulates what our next guest means to The Drive Live Monday through Friday, two to six, Chris CAMARADDI live in studio on a Friday, used today like exclusively Fridays, and we got you on a Friday.
Well it's summertime. Yeah, and my significant other is no longer working fair enough public educator. Yes, so I am free of my constraints.
Well, we appreciate you rolling in Beach Boys fan Brian Wilson passing this.
Week, huge fan. Yeah, I was listening to Fresh Air and they re aired his last two interviews with Terry Gross in nineteen eighty eight, nineteen ninety eight and very fascinating guy, very very sad story. If you don't know about Brian Wilson, like a very depressing but also enlightening human being, Like went through a lot of mental health challenges, sure, but a genius in his own right. And this song is one of my favorites of all time for a
lot of reasons. But it always reminds me of the end Boogie Knights for sure, with the buck sup.
It.
Yeah, it was. It was fascinating to listen to Brian Wilson himself talk about all of his stuff in these old interviews.
This week, we'll have to check that. I mean, I've seen the documentaries. And then there was a movie made, Love and Mercy, which was excellent. I lucked out. When I was ten years old, my uncle Nate played in a Beach Boys cover band called Surf's Up. Naturally, they played a lagoon and I thought he was like a beach boy. Wow, you know. And so when we moved back East, my uncle Nate, to his credit, yeah, to
his ever living credit. Quite frankly, I think he knew this was going to be a difficult move for a ten year old. Sure, he gave me pet sounds on tape. Okay, wow, because I had a walkman at the time, not even a dismand this was nineteen eighty eight. Yeah, he gave me pet sounds on tape. He gave me Revolver on tape, Sergeant Pepper's on tape, and then another Beach Boys. He gave me two Beatles album and two Beach Boys albums on tape.
Why haven't we hung out with Uncle Nate? Is he still around?
Oh, he's around. He's the best.
Why why haven't we hung out with uncle Nate. He is you know, uh, let's do it is he? Is he a namesake for your brother? Don't you have a brother?
Yes?
Yeah, my brother Nate was named after my uncle Nate. No, my uncle Nate lives in Bountiful. Yeah. I think he has five six kids a bunch of grandkids.
Now too, would uncle Nate want to hang out with Nate Bench?
Yes, and now that's all I want, quite frankly. No, he's the sweetest guy and he he very much colored my musical taste as a kid, which I'm very grateful for. And he so he introduced me to the Beach Boys. Greatest American rock band of all time?
Oh yeah, probably, I think most influential at the time. I mean, like, if the Beatles don't burst out of the scene, I think the Beach Boys ride out the sixties, basically dominating that decade. But the Liverpool Invasion changed the dude. But like, if we're talking about if we're talking about Beach Boys versus you know, the soft dad rock of the seventies with the Eagles, Doobie Brothers, the yacht we
get into some good yacht rock. Ironically, it's weird, like how many of those like I'm thinking of just off the top of my head, just like the band's basically mentioned or pseudo mentioned and almost famous. Most of them are British bands for sure. Like it's yeah, I mean, I know that this is what people are wanting to listen to on a Friday, but on the sports radio.
But it's like, it's fascinating. How if you really break it down in the lexicon of history of American rock and roll, the Beach Boys are absolutely up there.
I think anyone who's listening to you and I knows the deal by now. I would hope so we might get into the top Phillips you more hoppin movies of all time? Again we did almost famous. So best American rock band of all time? Aerosmith, Eagles, this is Rolling Stones, List, Van Halen, The Doors, Metallica, Creedence, Grateful Dead, Tom.
Petty, Creeden's gotta be up there, r Em.
If you want to get weird, uh, Nirvana, Leonard Skinner, Velvet, Underground, Guns N' Roses, Dally Dan. It might be the Beach Boys. Yeah, that might be the answer.
Yeah, I think out of all those bands that you named, I would go Beach Boys, Steely Dan's gotta be in there and criminally under credence. Oh yeah, absolutely.
And CCR R em fan. I would imagine you a phase at one point. Yeah, you know, not too much and probably not the greatest.
I kind of miss like your like I unfortunately didn't get the ninety one to ninety five grunge.
You know.
Yeah, our guy that we talked about that you forgot passed away like ten years ago, Chris Cornell, like like that, I kind of missed that window due to my age. And you bring that up, by.
The way, I just had stumbled upon a Chris Cornell cover of Nothing Compares to You, Okay, and I was very impressed. I forgot he died literally a decade Sound Garden Food Fighters, Red Hot, Chill.
Dow, I would throw red I throw Red Hot in the mix at least for a contemporary point of view for me.
Pearl Jam, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and if my dad's listening, I have to include Young. In my house it was Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young because my dad was a huge Neil Young fan.
Well he was the best one.
Well, David Crosby man, Yeah, okay, I mean Melissa Etheridge chose him as her sperm donor to have a kid because he was such a talented musician. Let's stay and do this for an hour. That's cool, It's all I want to do.
I hope to be that guy one day.
You can't be you're that guy today. Okay, not one day, all right, Chris. Since we're getting weird, let's keep getting weird. Uh my guy poach who my guy poached? Tino? Let me start here. Does this change the way we view the job Greg did?
No, it does not, No, But I you know I don't like two to my own horn. But do you remember my hottest take before the last World Cup?
Well, remind me.
Was that I would not be surprised if we didn't qualify.
Yes, last week you did warn us, which was accurate, and we.
Got dangerously close for a second. I mean we missed in eighteen. We got dangerously close in twenty twenty two, and Guitar.
Didn't you call that we would miss eighteen to.
No, you didn't. I that still too soon? The wounds are too deep, yeah, Trinidad and Tobago. Anyways, it doesn't change the job that Greg did because Greg didn't do a bad job and I think that's one thing that the soccer fans in this country are always going to be torn apart of the seams of how do we best utilize the talent that we have, How is this
talent pool best deployed? And traditionally we've been and by traditionally I mean like our most successful international tournaments on the men's side in the last twenty years have been a bunch of guys who defend like hell and get it to your guys up front and makes them bleep happen. And that's not to say that those teams were incapable of playing this very fluid, possession style soccer that so
many people worldwide play. But odds are when you're in a major international tournament as the US men's national team, you're going to more often than not be it a talent discrepancy, Like there is going to be a talent discrepancy and you're going to be on the other side of the coin. So when you get to these tournaments,
how do you best utilize your talent? This quote unquote Golden Generation was supposed to be the era that would take us into the play with flair, possession, break teams down, tire them out and you have players that are capable of playing that style, but for a multitude of reasons, guys have been hurt over the years. You're talking about lots of drama. I mean, side note, we finally arrived as a soccer country because we just can't get out of our own way in terms of like the drama
like that. That's when you like national teams worldwide are just like the most talked about sports soap opera, because that's all like it really is.
You sent me an article on the French national team.
Yes, you my, yeah, like moms getting involved with stuff and like telling players that they shouldn't like tackle their sons in training. Yes, that was I think that was Euro twenty twenty two, when France flamed out after winning the World Cup in eighteen.
That's right.
But Greg didn't do a bad job. And I and.
I I think what what what the run of results under Pochatino showed us is that we have to recalibrate our expectations of this team because we're everybody.
Is talking about this landmark once in a generational moment next summer across the US, Mexico and Canada. I mean it is, but I don't know if we're to the point now, Spence, that you're going to bring in people that haven't bought into the sport. Like I don't think that you're gonna have parents watch the US men's national
team play. Let's just let's just say like Slovakia or Switzerland next year in Austin, in Dallas, and they're not gonna say, oh, I'm gonna have to get my kid involved in soccer now right right the people who involved on the ground level as fans are are loving it. No matter what. People will get their Olympic fever type, you know, temperature every four years with the World Cup. But I I just I think everybody kind of has to pump the brakes on. This is going to change
soccer in this country. I don't know if it is.
Well, it's it's a fair point. When the last World Cup was here in ninety four, it did spawn the creation of Major League Soccer of MLS, so there was that. But you know, when it comes to the effect of a World Cup in our region on the sport, it's just something that I hear every time. You know, there's I remember when we brought the club here on two thousand and four. Don Garber was saying, this is great
timing because the World Cup's in two years. It wasn't here two thousands in Germany two thousand and six World Cup. It was the first World Cup I watched. I was like, this is awesome. Yeah, and we got worked. We did get worked. But I think there is a little bit of a initial bump that the sport receives every time there's a World Cup cycle, but it's never fully sustained. I mean, this sport has been a slow grow and a slow burn just to get to where it is and if it's ever going to get to where it
potentially could be. When you watch the way it's played internationally, it's still decades and decades away.
It's not in our DNA man. Like I don't want to sound like a fatalist here, but if you don't like it, you don't love it, you don't like it, and you don't love it, like you're not going to tune in casually to watch a soccer game. You're just not. And that bleeds into all of the issues going around the men's national team right now, Like you know, who decided to show up for the Gold Cup, who was
told not to show up for the Gold Cup. Former players who are often the speakerphone now for you know, being the guys on the lawn shaking their fists in the air. Like I said, we've we've kind of arrived in a sense like that. It's it's kind of a bleep show. And that's how it is around most of the world because it's it's what matters to most people, Like they have so much pride their national teams, and often national teams are very chaotic because personalities drive it all.
I mean, Christiano Ronald was forty years old and he's still scoring in finals. But he's he's also a pain in the ass. But people know that, like when you're once in a generational player, you're gonna put up with a pain in the ass because that's just what you do. Yeah, I don't know where this team goes. Like That's why I say, I think we have to recalibrate how we look at next Summer's World Cup as a as a whole,
because it's awesome that it's here. But I mean, we've talked about this before, man, Like we're talking about putting soccer in football stadiums, American football stadiums, around the country, which generally doesn't make they're not built. It's gonna look different, it's gonna feel different. They're gonna be laying grass over artificial turf in some places. Now I'll be a little
bit of elitist. In Mexico will look better because they're gonna be in stadiums that are designed to play and how soccer Matt is full time Canada the same way. But this team was never going to be the team even before this poor run of form with Pochettino, that was going to be like, Oh, these guys are gonna have what it takes to make the semis. I just didn't believe it.
Well, one of the points you made earlier, which is a really good one, because Pochettino said, we are going to be on the front foot. We are going to play with flair, we are going to attack.
That's who he is, man.
But that's not who we are.
I mean, that's who we want to be. But we aren't there.
But to your point earlier, whenever we've even had a modicum of success, it's like one nill Landon scores a miracle goal at the death against Algeria or whatever. Right, we've never been the team that's like gonna lose five to four or win three to two. We're always the gritty, defensive club that relies on our keeper. Historically speaking, we have had pretty elite keepers. I'm not sure if that's the deal now.
This is a backwards US team, yeah.
And relies on a back four and even a team that will defend as a group and then they be catching on the counter or maybe get lucky. That's who we've always been. But Pochettino wants a different approach. I don't know that he has the personnel for that.
He doesn't. Yeah, Like I said, this is a backwards team. The strength in this team is in the attacking third, and the weakness in this team is in the defensive third ending goal, which is like you, I don't. You probably couldn't say that about a US team going back all the way till the eighties, like honestly, like until really Casey Keller burst on the scene in the mid nineties. Like, this is a very hard team to deconstruct from a like a tactical point of view, because they don't do
a lot well. It's odd, though, because so many of these guys came up playing with each other, So like, it's not like Greg or Pochettino were making these guys like solve ap calculus. Like it's not. I think, like the nerds need to put their their drawing boards away and just be like, why can't these guys play well together in any sort of system, whether it's under greg
Or Pochettino or BJ Callahan who was the interim. I mean they played well under PJ, but like it was a very short stint, But like, why is it that this group that by all accounts is the most talented, that grew up with each other for all intents and purposes, why can't they consistently play well together when they do come together for these national team camps.
So part of me believes, whether it was Bob Bradley or Jurgen or Greg or now Pochettino, you gotta find the guy you like and you got to stick with him. I think, I mean that that's my opinion. However, when you juxtapose that here to other places, other countries that are really good change their managers so every cycle.
Right if not if yeah, they'll rip them, they'll take them. They'll rip the band aid right off. If there's a bad run of form.
So when it comes to how impatient we've been with coaches, is that just status quo or do you think we need to find the guy that we like to ride with them.
No. I mean, like I would be surprised if Pochettino is the coach after this World Cup. I think he was brought in to try to take this group to new heights. And you're talking about a national You're talking about a national team coach coaching the national team level for the first time. He's been a club He's been a club manager forever. And when you're a club manager, you're around these guys Spence basically more than really any other professional sport in the world. These guys take a
four week break in the summertime. That's it. That's it. Otherwise they're they're back training in August and they some of them play all the way through May or June. So like I'm talking about like four to six weeks tops. So these coaches, like Paunch is used to having his finger tips on guys at his disposal, like whenever he wants. And now you're talking about a dude who has gotten a few camps together, hasn't had his best strikers have
been hurt, Balagan's been hurt, Pepi's been hurt. Uh Pulisic has you know, getting getting knocks. Nobody knows what's gonna happen with Geo Rena. Again, it's not what people want to hear, but like, I just think we have to try and recalibrate the expectations of this group going into
next year. Regardless of where this was going to be held, if this was going to be held in Japan or South Africa or wherever in Germany, this group hasn't shown that they've been able to take in the next st I mean, I can't believe it's almost been four years since Guitar three and a half because they played in the winter time, but there hasn't been results. Nobody's really made that much of a jump. Christian's been really good at AC Milan, but like he's finally realizing the expectations
that everybody put on him. But other than that, you're kind of like, who's going to step up and take a game by the scruff outside of Christian And we don't really have any of those guys.
So if we didn't have the auto qualification situation as a result of the World Cup being here, would we be in trouble?
I don't think so, because this is I just have a hard time seeing that happening, but it is. It is. We're at a time now where it's kind of like bleeper, get off the pot in terms of figuring out who's going to be in your starting eleven, who's going to be in your game day roster, how do you want
to play? Who are you going to play against? Like you don't we won't know the World Cup drop for a few months now, but like man, I shudder at the idea of what would happen if the US lays another egg on home soil after Copa America, after your favorite tournament Conka Caffe Nations lead. That is my jam.
Like the only time this group has shown up weirdly is against Mexico in big tournaments in recent years, but against everybody else when the lights are the brightest, they kind of cower and it's really fascinating.
So what is your opinion on uh? Christian polistic? H Tyler Adams was hurt right?
Tyler played?
Tyler played Okay Weston, McKinney.
Weston and Tim Ware with Juventus because they're at club where they're playing in this club world for the first time.
Okay, And we had Donny on yesterday and you know, I can name like the top four or five dudes and weren't there. Donny gave me a list of like eleven or twelve players that he thinks will be on the World Cup roster that are not on the Goal Cup roster, and he said probably seven starters.
Yeah, So.
Let's talk about this dynamic where the Gold Cup, historically speaking, has been an opportunity for some of the players that aren't in the first choice group to showcase their talents. We have examples here before Kyle and Nick were part of the legitimate rotation for a World Cup. They kind of made their name in the Goal Cup. Kyle scored a goal, Nick was one of the starting keepers, played well.
Beltran was on a Gold Cup roster. That's right. So, historically speaking, the Gold Cup is a place for lesser known players to showcase their abilities. Do you have a problem with these players tapping out based on the fact that this Goal Cup is one year away from the World Cup.
I don't think. I think I'm the rare voice or you know opinion that nobody really cares about outside of we care about it. You're right, That's one thing that can't be lost here is historically the Gold Cup was a place for people who needed to cut their teeth and impress the manager to try to get on the radar for the next big tournament the following summer or in the years to come. So Christian not playing have no problem with it. The guys at the Club World
Cup have no problem with it. You know, Anthony Robinson, who is one of our best players, had to get knee surgery. I'm trying to think desk is coming back from an acl Like honestly, I think people are just over compensating with their rationale, with their frustration of guys not being available or being there versus the current player pool that paulch has just not being good enough.
And that to me was the main takeaway, Like if we look that bad without our top players, it is a commentary on we just don't have depth.
Don't have depth and don't know how to play. I mean, like if you I don't know if you watched the Switzerland match, but like the first.
I got home and turned it on, it was four nail.
Yeah, I mean the first half was basically it was everybody on their own. Nobody knew how to press together, nobody knew how to defend together. Nobody were staying in blocks. The lines were being broken. So I mean, like those goals that they were giving up, man, like that was
like embarrassing. It was really really embarrassing. And like couple that with Matt Turner spilling one and like there he already doesn't have a lot of you know, success in between the pipes in recent years, and you just wonder,
like do these guys believe themselves? And I think that, to me is one of the most you know, interesting kind of underlying parts of this whole conversation is you're talking about a young generation who is easily the most talented and have the most success at the international club level. But the when like I said, when the bright lights shine, they haven't been able to deliver. So like are is there is there a little bit of doubt in the
minds of the guys. Is their collective doubt Like you just want to see some sort of change like between World Cup cycles and you just haven't seen it. Granted, I will say I'll have to correct myself. The the the asen hind decision to bring Greg Burhalter back after the last World Cup and then have that whole thing flame out was ridiculous. So there is a change in a sense. But like I said, the only player that really has burst onto the scene, so to speak, is
a dude from here, like it is Wild. That's not taking nothing away from Diego. Diego has proved that he should be in the World Cup roster next year. But like considering where a lot of these guys play, like and and the amount of resources that we've you know, devoted to so many of these guys and the youth system here, like this golden generation, nobody else is coming
through the pipeline. Like if you're if your top level guys are not there, then there needs to be some sort of reinforcements behind this quote unquote golden generation behind him.
For sure, It's a great point because I can also remember when we brought rs here in two thousand and four, the Commissioner Garber and Mark ab and others talking about how we are a generation away from really seeing our national team fly because of all of the resources that have been put in place to develop players who at
the time are the players that we're seeing now. And to be fair, there have been some success stories like Christian and others, but I don't feel like we're any closer than we were twenty years ago to really having a legitimate shot of doing anything other than just getting out of the birth.
And that's okay, And that's what I mean when I say like we have to just everyone needs to take a breather and understand where we sit in the world landscape.
Something well. Jurgen Klinsman himself was asked will the US every win a World Cup? And he was like no, and he got a viscery lost his job.
He's not wrong, I know, man, And that's okay. Yeah, there are listen, there are there are football. There are soccer countries in Europe that produce an insane amount of talented players that have trouble getting to the Euros right every four years because of how much talent they have to go up against. So the fact that we're in our geographical footprint, we have it. Okay. Canada is coming on. It's great for Conca cap It's good for this region.
Mexico is starting to wake up a little bit. The Central American teams are a little shaky compared to where they have been historically. But like, if we can get out of group stage and and have a puncher's chance and the puncher's chance in the round of sixteen every single Men's World Cup, I think that's a success. I think we're operating there. You have delusions of grandeur if you think that this country, even with the current playerpool it has right now, needs to be on the precipice
of making a run to the World Cup final. We just don't have the horses. And that's okay.
You ever met Alexi Laless I.
Have, and I've talked to Alexi multiple times. He's always he's always been very good to me. He's always given me a lot of you know, interesting insight, especially back when I was on the RSL beat days. But hey man, everybody gets a check, all right.
All right, before we catch a break, just give me a quick Rsel thought. So no diego, no don Mark, Zuke, no gozo. Uh your guy Johnny Russell in the starting eleven coming up against DC on Saturday. DC is coming off a game where they got smoke seven to one.
Not great. I was at home too, it was at home.
Uh not great. Bob, as the kids would say, I don't know who's going to be in the attack because they're Tyler Wolf.
No love for Tyler Wolf. RSL is a developmental club spence.
Not based off the interviews I've gone over the past few weeks. I mean, Peel's gonna be up top or what my guy a big WILLI goals?
He's coming, he's coming off a goal recently.
Oh wait, Peel's not with them? Actually, oh is he not?
So?
Will be big Willy goals up top? And your guy Johnny Russell starting. Diego is back in the good graces of Pablo. Can they win on Saturday? At least? Can they just get three points on Saturday? Probably not.
They will need Diogo to put together one of his best, if not his best performance in an RSL kit, and they need to show some semblance of being able to have an idea in the attacking third and also not give up very stupid goals. That's asking a lot about this team right now.
It is all right, we'll catch a break coming up next. Ck, we'll break down house to the NCAA settlement. What's next? How will the funds be distributed? What does it mean for nil? So stay tuned for that. But before we catch a break, well, we welcome in Ryan from the Disro Dishbros. Bottom line, You guys know the number dial eight oh one four two four dish and you will find a way to save a lot of money. Right Ryan, what's going on buddy?
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Four Dish Ryan from the Dish Professionals. More ck Liven Studio coming up on the other side. Right here on a Friday Drive on ESPN seven hundred, one hundred, Chris Camaradi is live in studio for one more big segments. All right, man did a little soccer. Last segments move over to the space of college football. First of all, any exciting athletic teases for the upcoming season. I know you were back east for meetings. Anything you want to know, Jack, you strong meetings?
Do you have some some some bigger enterprise stories coming down the pipe? This summer and this fall will be on the road for some of the more interesting college football games from a culture perspective, and it'll be fun. So yeah, there there, there are. There are big ones, but nothing I can tease necessarily, But there will be stories that we will definitely be talking about on this radio show.
Will you be covering Bill Belichick and his young girlfriend?
I will not. We have a great North Carolina bas writer named Brendan Marx who covers North Carolina and duke basketball, but with Bill being there, his job is changed.
Kind of an odd story that people seem to be very obsessed with. I'm not one that clutches pearls, over age gaps and relationships. And why do you think it's captured so many people's imaginations.
Oh, it was all their fault. The CBS sent this. If they don't, if they don't make a stink about the Sunday Morning interview, I think I think that's it.
Like you gave people a reason to think anything they want, basically, and and you're talking about like, dude, Sunday Morning, my parents watch CBS and like you're not getting You're not It's a great I love it, but I'm just saying like you're not dealing with like hard hitting, like you're nobody's been being grilled over this, Like Bill was toting
a book. He wrote a book about his own life, and they're trying to control the narrative about what questions were pre you know, given the greenlight can be break, dude. So after that happened, I think the gloves were off because people were already kind of fascinated. And now that he's at a public institution, like you can get a lot of stuff because you can foy and grandmother stuff, and you know, guys like Brandon. I mentioned Matt, my colleague,
Matt Baker, who is a public recordswizz. Like we've broken a lot of stuff about Bill Belichick and his girlfriend and just how odd it is at the University of North Carolina because it's a public institution, and of all the things that I never thought we'd be talking about in twenty twenty five, it's Bill Belichick, who historically has always been a very guarded, curmudgeonly fellow, toting his own book with his you know, with his girlfriend at his side,
with his girlfriend supposedly having a lot to do behind the scenes in college football in twenty twenty five. Never would have thought. I mean, like growing up, like you would watch Bill Belichick press conferences and you'd be like, what, like, is this dude having a bad day? And now he's he has to kind of mean, he's out recruiting, he's doing all this stuff. He's he's chosen us a new lease on life. Let's just say.
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure, all right, Chris. Last Friday, about ten minutes after we signed off air, I got the alart on my phone that the house of v NCAA settlement was actually finally pushed across the line.
Friday news dump, Friday news.
Dump after the show. So twenty point five million dollars at the disposal. Aflect of athletic departments to now pay the young people to play sports and institutions I don't like the term student athlete. The general model seems to be and this is not every institution in P four. It will change based off the variants of what your unique situation is. Like Utah does have a gymnastics program that brings a lot of revenue and eyes right, but the general model seems to be seventy five percent of
the twenty point five mil will go to football. I think ten percent will go to men's basketball or no, fifteen percent will go to men's basketball, five percent goes to women's basketball, and five percent is left over for everybody else. Do you feel like that's kind of where most of the institutions will land.
Yeah, based on my conversations with folks at the P four and the Group of five level, they've said, and this was before it got pasted, they were waiting in the world of anywhere from fifty to seventy five going to football. And these are different institutions around the country that have different you know, points of view, that have different powerhouse programs that aren't necessarily football. But it's going to be interesting to see which teams vacillate between you know,
going all in on football, which most will do. But there will be lots of schools that don't have to because they know that in investing in I mean investing in men's basketball, women's basketball. There will be exceptions, like you mentioned with Utah and the Red Rocks. I would
imagine there will be others. I mean, Oklahoma softball is a powerhouse, like you're gonna have to, you know, pay these folks the the Texas Tech picture that signed from Stanford and who became the first female softball player to earn a million dollars in an IL like, you're going to have to figure out a way to market yourself and be tantalizing enough to student athletes. Even if we're talking beyond the revenue generating sports of football and men's men's basketball.
Do you think, and this is an interesting conversation because there are multiple layers here. You just can't debate that the football program is your cash cow. You cannot debate that football generates the most revenue. Next year will mark a decade between NC DOUBLEA appearances for Utah men's basketball, which is wild to think about. If you're a P four basketball program and you are not making the NC DOUBLEA tournament, you are leaving a grip of cash on
the table. So Mark has an interesting decision to make. Right But, just theoretically speaking or philosophically speaking, should the money be allocated to your product that does give you the best return on investment or is there a case to be made that some of this money should probably go to sports that have not historically received the investment or attention they need. Because if you're a women's soccer
player at the University of Utah, men's baseball player. Yeah, and you see the final split and you go up to the dorm or whatever, and the football players are showing you their paycheck and you're like, wait a seconds. These things are more complex than meets the eye. So what are your thoughts on, just philosophically, how this revenue should be split.
I'm glad you came to me because I know that you know that when it comes to investments, yes and markets, Yes, I'm the guy.
How is your portfolio these days?
I would say strong to quite strong.
It's Bolivian Wormwood. It took seventy two hours. I believe they call it a hookah. I still think think it's it's Ben Stiller's best movie. I know you disagree it's I still believe that.
Well, it's just because it's a it's a nostalgia thing. It's heavyweights for me, and it was a big shot, a big show. Listen, you can look at it from a multitude of ways. You can look at it by investing in a historically downtrodden program that if it hits, we'll bring more money in. If we're talking about Utah, for example, or you can you can theoretically go fifty to fifty or or give more. Because if we're talking
about Utah women's gymnastics, they are the exception. I don't think you have a lot of non revenue generating sports that are revenue generating sports like Utah gymnastics is around the country. Like it's it's hard to quantify how unique it is. They're selling that place out every single night. When was the last time you're waiting to drop and meet the parents? Y day by day? Oh lord? Three? See lord, Like, when was the last time Utah men's
basketball sold out the Huntsman Center? I mean, like, like legit hold it out, like the Red Rocks are doing that. I know they don't have as many home meets as men's basketball has teams, but like.
There have been some one offs here and there, but can see but honestly, I'm not even sure there's been that in a long time.
So when it comes to investments, you have to you have to pick your pick your spots.
And are you a podthead falker? Sorry I keep going, I'm listening.
Oh man, I was thinking about the poem that he your name was Angela.
You gave me milk like an unstoppable rebel force. Oh so good.
The parallels between the House Settlement and Robert De Niro
dialogue is not lost on me. Anyways. If we're talking about UTAH specifically, Mark and his team have hard questions answered, because you can't leave a program that has made you money and has put butts in the seats at the altar, so to speak, in favor of the one that historically in the last ten years you mentioned it'll be ten years since they've made an NCAA tournament that hasn't really given you much from a revenue generating point of view.
So it's it's tough, man, it's this. This is where now that we know and eventually they'll tell us like, this is where everybody gets to figure out a way that you can accurately criticize or or applaud an athletic department for doing their jobs.
The other element is what was Alex Jensen promised before he left a really good job to take this job. And you also do have to balance. You make a good point about like, well, look, if we're not making the NCAA tournament, do you guys deserve investment or if we could make the NCAA tournament consistently, that does provide a lot more revenue than the basketball program has brought in.
Or do you bump that up a little bit to give the basketball team more support so they can actually start winning games and make and making the tournament?
Are we talking honestly on the drive?
We only talk honestly on the drive.
Do we know enough? Is there enough empirical data to say whether or not Utah is going to be a potential nc double A tournament team next year? I would say no.
I would agree with you. I think that's a tough ask year one.
For al tough ask. And again I would I would ask all of your listeners to not always drink the kool aid of the folks in this media market who are saying, you know these guys, watch out for these guys. My guy, who is also your guy, tweeted that there's at least going to be one pro player on this upcoming Utah men's basketball roster. Our guy.
He also joined the show and set his sources indicate any direction is possible.
Okay, okay, alright at five okay.
So yes, yeah, and who knows, maybe he's right.
And maybe he's right, But what I'm saying is that you have to have some sort of foundational data as Alex from Alex as a head coach before you can, in my opinion, go really all in.
You're no, You're right, And I've said that from the start because I just, you know, I think Al's the right guy. I think it was the right hire, and so I am not going to be over the top about expectations for this roster. Y're one, and if anybody out there is telling you they've been grinding tape on these new players, they're lying. We don't know what it's gonna.
Be Delaware State, I don't. I mean, let's be honest. If I think one dude came from like Cincinnati, I don't even know. I'm I'm not schooled on where these guys came from. But they're not coming from. There's an Auburn guy that I think maybe didn't play a lot, and Auburn's been good.
Well in that case, championship.
Yeah, championship, but other than that, let's everyone take a chill pill.
While we're in the space of taking a chill pill, I'm here. Vegas over under Utah football wins seven point five. Every single you guys at the Athletic two four seven, ESPN, everybody does the whole like, hey, way too early, Big twelve look ahead. Utah is pretty Utah football is pretty squarely in the middle. They don't have the expectations of winning the thing, at least from what I've seen. I think Phil Steele, your guy, did pick Utah as one of the top three teams if I saw that correctly.
So taking a chill pill.
Utah football expected Devin Dampier Heisman candidacy.
I haven't seen it yet, but you know I.
Means based on what I've been told by multiple people who watch practice secretly, he's going to be a Heisman Trophy candidate.
I've been told to say.
I say that in jest, but I don't know if people really get it.
Well a few KSL videos with it.
Listen, man, again, beyond basketball, nobody knows what the hell this football team's going to look like offensively next year. So we're taking chill pills. I employ you all to take a chill pill. Devin damp Pierce tape. His highlights that you watched on Twitter are awesome. I guarantee you didn't watch the twelve interceptions he threw. Last year he threw he had like a fifty eight percent completion rate.
You were probably looking at a lot of awesome plays that he made, but you probably weren't watching, you know, some air and throws that he had, which is fine. One thing we have to get out in the clear in this market is that just because you're not bending the knee, you're not You're not a villain, You're not a but you can be critical without being viewed as the villain.
You're preaching to the choir man.
I know you are, but I'm just saying, like we are, we are venturing into very dangerous territory here.
But that's also But that's not just Utah.
No, I know that. I'm just saying, it's it's everywhere.
It's our guys downtown center.
And it's the guy's forty miles down south. I get that. It's everywhere, So it's not it's not specific to the guys off or car away. But will Utah be better next year? They will? I promise you. Are they going to change the world offensively? Probably not? Will they be better offensively? God? You have to hope. So because of
how terrible they be worse, can't be worse. They got a couple first round tackles on their roster, got some running backs you've really never heard of, got some receivers you absolutely have never heard of, and the defense should be good. Other than that, Vegas setting it at seven and a half makes sense.
That feels right, That feels right, all right? The other element and you know, you know, actually, let me leave with this. Is there ever going to be an accurate way to really even the playing field in college football? I don't think so either. There will always be the car dealer in Tuscaloosa that's fine, paying whatever it is over for it.
Man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But the reason I bring it up is there is a new College Sports Commission and the CEO is a guy named Brian Seely, who was a former Major League Baseball executive. See I think what a lot of people either don't know or forgot is the NCAA was literally told two years ago you are no longer allowed to enforce anything which is a wild, wild format, and that's
why we've been in this area of chaos. So at least there are some best laid plans in place with a new CEO of this enforcement organization called the College Sports Commission, and starting on June's all of these young people who play sports for institutions who are benefiting off of NIL now have to report every NIL deal of more than six hundred dollars to the College Sports Commission.
It's going to go through some derivative of an LBI software program in Deloitte, who runs the NBA Draft lottery for all you Jazz fans that are mad.
And runs a lot of stuff at a much higher correct. The stakes are much higher.
They have a lot on their plate, There's no doubt about that. So how do you think this process is going to work? And do you think it will corral a little bit some of the crazy spending on NIL.
I don't know if it's going to corral the spending. I think it'll hold people more accountable, okay. And I would hope that this commission makes all of this stuff if it's a if it's a public institution, I would hope it'll be made public so people can understand because you're still at the end of the day, you're still asking people to donate, like NIL is not going away. No, No, Like the twenty point five million is is for the benefit of the players and one for the benefit of
the universities. But you're still going to talk about players who are getting third party deals, dealers with deals with dealerships in town, so on and so forth. So I think it will add if it's done the right way, it will show us the red tape basically that we've been missing for a very long time.
So ultimately, Mark Carlin himself has said they will utilize every penny of the twenty point five million dollars. Brian Santiago, the new athletic director of Brigham Young, has not made that statement. It doesn't mean they're not going to do it, but the money stuff down there is just different.
And I don't know if they need to say anything publicly because they're a private institution.
So how do you think they'll handle it that?
I don't know. I mean, if we're talking about recent history and how much money the basketball program has gotten, and if you're talking about historically the football program has carried the load there, so you would think that they would give most of it. In my opinion, you would think they would give most of it to football, knowing that your high profile donors are still probably going to be giving to Kevin Young and his staff to go out and pay players. But I don't know. The private
school thing is going to be interesting. I should ask. I'll talk to some of my smart some of my smart colleagues that you should have on who know about all this publicrappy toff. Yeah, happy, because it'll be interesting to see, like when this stuff gets made public, if private schools need to be involved in this and whatnot on the commission side of things.
Well, and to your point about the basketball program, the money is already in the bank for this year, and Jeff Goodman has reported that AJ's getting seven mil. This new rob Right kid apparently is three Richie is seven figures. If you just do some quick math, nil money for this year's BYU basketball program is in the area of thirteen to fifteen million dollars, right, But that's all nil.
That's before these kids can get paid. Yep. So I wonder if you're Brian Santiago and you know that the basketball team has already dial in with their nil stuff, do you bump more funds to Claudie and his team? Obviously more players.
I would think, So, yeah, you have to, don't you more players? More depth? I mean, basketball rosters are small man and like they're always going to be front loaded. You have to be able to disperse the correct amount of resources to a football team in order to make them good. Like I understand in the NFL, who gets paid the most quarterbacks one, But like if you have a really good offensive tackle, you're going to invest in them. If you have a really good defensive end Miles Garrett
or Nick Bosa, you're going to invest in them. And then there will be positions that maybe don't get that so much. Like you know, middle linebackers don't get paid the boatload of money that other positions do. And I don't know if if safeties are getting paid a lot
of money. So because of the roster size, and because the BYU men's basketball program is already in theoretically in a good space from the nil component, I would think if you're Bryan's Antiago, you would say, Klan, here's a lot of money.
I would hope so. And you know, they just had a really good year. BAU football is coming off a really good season. Do you think that when it? Because your points about the payscale based off positions will be interesting to follow. I still believe and if you would have asked me three years ago, I would have told you that we were already in this space. And we're not.
And so I can't even put a timeframe on it, but based off of everything that still needs to be figured out, and the inevitability because money changes everything, it just does. I think anyone that lives.
In everybody everything and everybody right.
And I think anyone that has a little bit of lived experience in the world knows that, whether it's family, friends, business, whatever it is, when money gets involved, people change, and people change their values, their jealousies, there's anger. It just is inevitable that the women's soccer team in Utah will find out what the starting quarterback is making from the school and say, wait a second, this doesn't feel fair. Inevitably,
there has to be collective bargaining. I still believe that I agree, but I don't know when that's going to happen. I do think we will. We will feel more momentum in that direction starting now now that payer the players are getting paid, now that people can see what the checks look.
Like, now that they're being paid directly by those correct verses.
Correct, and so disgruntled athletes will contact lawyers. A lot of them already have agents, and once those complaints start spilling in, I think everyone's gonna understand that the only way to really make this thing work is for allowing the players to unionize and therefore collectively bargained to come to some sort of agreement.
And I wonder if and when we get to that point, are there going to be individual unions that are NC double A football unions, NC double A basketball unions, or do they all come together do the I mean probably close to millions. I don't know, do all the Division I athletes across the landscape this country come together and form a union? Because if so, then you're talking about some heft.
Yeah.
Sure, now I think like a football union would have its heft. But if you're talking about if you're talking about athletes who play in non revenue revenue generating sports, you would hope that they get to have a piece of the pie. So if there does come a point where there is collective bargaining, you'd have to believe that even the folks like the like the football players, like the basketball players, would would want to bring those folks along with them.
Okay, final thing, and I'll set you loose on this as it pertains to the ongoing UH lawsuits that we see left and right. There was a lawsuit filed by a group of female athletes that say this violates Title nine. There are rumors of other lawsuits being filed, you know, labor law. This isn't fair. That isn't fair. Are we just in an area in collegian athletics now where it's time to accept that stuff like this will continue to
go on? And maybe every single year there's gonna be another lawsuit filed, there's gonna be another appeal filed, and we're just gonna have to deal with this, maybe in perpetuity. I mean, I don't know that it ever really ends.
No will. It will not end until Sorry I'm contradicting myself. It will not end unless people finally get their stuff together and get their ducks in a row. And there is a model built that allows universities, coaches, players, agents, everybody to be in lockstep on how things are done. Until then, you're gonna have people filing these lawsuits saying that you know, I deserve this piece of the pie because X, Y and Z, and a lot of times they're right. So that's the reality we face.
Who do you want the Jazz to draft a five?
I've been told and everything's on the table. But if I'm going for do you think they go best player available at five? Okay?
Because they need everything.
So since they need everything, I'm going to go with the dude from Baylor DJ. Is he going to be there?
Maybe?
Okay?
Probably not?
Okay, So then I'm gonna go with not the guy from Duke, not not the guy from Duke or the other guy from not Con and not the tall guy from Duke.
He won't be there at five. No, the other tall guy he might be there at five.
I don't want him either.
Okay, fair enough, Great to see you go enjoy your weekend, all right, my man,