You know. I have the New York Times obituary up for Val Kilmer and they have not referenced Tombstone as one of the movies in the obituary. Is that wild? How do you not do that? It seems like quite the omission. Oh all right, A source indicates our next guest. I was also unhappy about that. He is social media influencer Bill orm on the program on a Wednesday, Bill, Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you you know?
It took me a second to figure out where that would have come from, because I was absolutely on fire about this last night in the group chat. They did update it after about thirty minutes, though, so it got in there. But I was just on fire that you could have a full obituary for Val Kilmer and not include his iconic role as doc Holiday. So I'm glad the New York Times came around on that. But it's great to be here, Spez. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, thanks for the time. You should know that we had one Christopher Camaraddie live in studio for an hour today, so there were several old Bill Orang stories that were shared. Just so you know, do I need to.
Go back and listen to it and make sure that no secrets were spilled.
I'm sorry, Bill, I thought you were a daily listener live. I guess I'm mistaken.
Sorry, I was on deadline over here. I apologize.
Okay, fair enough, Well, young man, you went viral recently, and as I reference, you have certainly leaned into the social media content sharing and no hatred. I don't know that I could do it. You're better at it than I am. But tell our listeners what happened, how this all went down. Let's go from there.
Oh it's funny. I was at the TAA tournament in Seattle and sitting ended up being seated behind the TNT broadcasting crew directly behind Jalen Rose for the Oregon Arizona game, and I was seated next to a local television reporter here in Portland, Brenda Green from Channel six, and she happens to co host my podcast, which is the Oregonian Sports Podcast. So we were joking around about using that as an opportunity to to pimp the Oregonian Sports podcast.
So with about a minute left in the game, you can see us having a very spirited conversation and good lip readers would be able to tell that she and I were both saying Oregonian Sports Podcast or Agonian Sports
podcast or Agonian Sports podcast. But there weren't a lot of lip readers on the internet apparently, and they thought something else was going on, and I got labeled a riz god and basically basically became a hero of the Internet for spitting game with a minute left in the in the NCLA tournament, which was not what was going on. In case my wife is listening, but yes, riz God, Bill, thanks for putting it on TNT.
I'm sorry, Bill, Are you claiming to not be a riz god? That was always my understanding?
Okay, I am. I am also a riz god. It's just at that moment, wasn't the proof that people thought it was okay?
Fair enough because I didn't catch it live. But whoever set it out initially on Twitter, I don't know if it's because I've interacted with you before I came across my feed, and of course I promptly shared it with Aaron and Chris and everybody, and they were already on it. Of course, you can't get anything by ck.
You know that you got some of the best reporters in the country right there. In Salt Lake.
Did this Did this turn into tangible results for the pod?
You know, we've only had one episode since, and so we're still waiting for those metrics to come in on whether or not it is, whether it's going to give us the boost that we hoped. But I think that, you know, continued media appearances like this one where I'm able to talk about the exposure for the Oregonian Sports Podcast Oregonian Sports Podcast, it can only help. And I should also plug my new video series, the ORUM Forum, which you can find on Instagram and TikTok.
Oh, you're leaned into the TikTok side of things, now, Okay, So we were talking about during the Cko, which you listen to live and you'll listen to later later in the replay, of course, how you have leaned into this social media influencer content, you know kind of approach. What motivated this? Now you I did not know this about you until earlier, but Christopher shared with us that you or a fan of the art. You are a musical fan.
You enjoy play. So maybe there's a thesbian that's late that's been inside you this entire time.
Oh yeah, I played Rusty Charlie and Guys and Dolls get back into sech A High School in two thousand and two. So I mean that was kind of the beginning of my Well, that's actually not true. In nineteen ninety four, I played Winthrop Peru in The Music Man and the Sega High School. I was in the first grade that they needed a first grader to play Winthrop, so I was up there on stage singing Gary Indiana and playing the little Cornett. So yeah, I mean, really
it all began then. I think you could safely say, but no, I mean, I think, you know, we're just trying to embrace the moment, the media moment, and meeting our readers and our consumers where they are. And they're not just on the printed pages of the Oregone In anymore, as much as sometimes we wish they were. You know, they're online, They're on TikTok, they're on Instagram, and so we go. We go where our readers are, where their eyeballs are, and so we're trying to, you know, present
our information in a lot of different ways. I wrote a column today that will be in print in The Oregonian tomorrow, but it's online right now about Toomani Kamara from the Blazers and his bid for an all defensive team spot. And then we just made a video about it too where I'm where I'm talking about it, and we had a lot of fun with it that way. So trying to reach trying to reach our you know,
our subscribers in different places. But it's it's fun for me because I do like to have fun with, you know, with with these sorts of things, and so it gives me a different way to sort of flex those art kid muscles. For sure.
Was that the character ron Howard played in the film adaptation Winthrop cam I remember that correctly.
You absolutely are. When he was Ronnie Howard, he played uh, he played Winthrop Peru singing Gary, Indiana and the Wells Fargo Wagon with this q little lisp I had. I had a lisp and everything.
Wait, wait, do we have video evidence of this? Bill?
You know? I am just I am just uh uh, I'm self destructive enough that I will I will try to find the video and get it to you.
Please. Oh, I want nothing more. No, I'd appreciate that. And look, I want to I want to be clear. I respect the attempt, I respect the endeavor. I respect the desire to be front facing. Is there any part of it that you're not that comfortable with? I just I don't know that I've ever really been able to lean into stuff like that.
Well, I'm concerned about my wardrobe spence. I don't have a wardrobe budget from the Oregonians. So it's pretty soon I'm gonna have to start repeating, repeating outfits on the orum Forum. And I think that, you know, the viewers are gonna are gonna are gonna object to that, and so I'm gonna have to talk to my bosses about, you know, increasing a bit of a wardrobe budget here so I can keep it fresh, keep the fit fresh for a viewers.
Is this all sports related? Is it all sports related surrounding the great city of Portland in the area in which you work now?
It is right now, but I mean, like I think we'd be open to expanding it beyond sports really if you if you ever wanted to submit a question or have me address it. I mean, it is the Oorum Forum, so we like to think of it as a bit of a two way street. So last week we did an episode where I was answered questions about the Blazers Ducks baseball to Portland. I know that baseball issue, the Portland versus Salt Lake thing has been has been going strong. So try and tackle all those issues. But I mean
we could, we could expand beyond sports. I mean the video I recorded today, I dropped a Sabrina Carpenter reference. Nice, so be on the lookout for that.
I like it. I like it. Hey, what's been You know, we we're pretty similar markets Salik and Portland. You know, Portland a little bit, a little bit bigger when you look at the rating system, I think we're twenty twenty eight, twenty nine. Portland's like nineteen or twenty. But when it comes to NBA teams, great college teams, then MLS is well, and then the desire to expand, we're we're pretty similar. And we also find ourselves as strange bedfellows with two
NBA teams that are unserious about winning. What's the what's the public support or lack thereof? With this Blazers team that's still trying to find their way with a bunch of young players. It's been rough down here trying to cover the jazz. They just lost their sixtieth game. We've never had that happen here, And you wrote here and you were a medium member here for a while, and we're spoiled because the Jazz more often than not, are good and when they're not, they find their way back.
And they're not close to finding their way back. What are the challenges trying to cover a team that's un serious about competing.
Well, not just unseerious about competing, but in a town where fans have, like you said, spoiled, but just been really accustomed to having a team that you know, was
in the mix every year. And you know, the Jazz obviously had a brief period where they were true championship contenders, but you know, for the most part, you could just count on them to be in the mid of that Western Conference race and win a playoff series and be a tough out and that was, you know, something the city could sort of be proud of and rally behind.
Portland it was the same. So these are two teams and franchises and fan bases that are not accustomed to the idea of tanking really historically, and so in Portland, I think there's actually been a bit of a I think there's been a bit of a reversal in public opinion. If you'd ask me this in December or January, I would have said, oh, fans are sick of the Blazers tanking and all this, you know, you know, this this
uncertainty around who they're building around. I think people are buying in on this Blazers team finally because they've gotten so much better since January fifteenth. They had kind of a rough March, but they're gonna finish the season with like thirty five thirty six wins, and that's kind of a disaster in the tanking realm, right, Like they've basically taken themselves out of having you know, well you consider
to be a good shot at Cooper Flag. I mean, there's still a chance statistically that they could jump into that top four, but you know, they have basically said, hey, you're gonna embrace you know, letting our young guys play and compete and win the games they can. And you know, it's I think it's brought people back. You know, you're able to see the growth that Danny Advia has had
in his year in Portland. I mean, I mean, Spence, I'm not going to sit here and try to say that like Denny Advia is a number one option going forward. But he's been a really good player. I mean, he's you know, he's scored thirty plus, you know, in several straight games. He's you know, his numbers over the last
month are all star level. And again I'm not saying that's who he is, you know, going forward, but you know, he's really asserted himself as a a really, really really good player TOI Monti Kamara, like I mentioned, deserves to be on an all defensive team. And so with Portland, there's those signs of growth that show that they're kind
of pointing in the right direction. Now. Kind of taking those steps before you really have an identity in terms of like a star that you're building around can be dangerous because that is how teams do end up kind of getting stuck in the middle. So I think that's the risk that the Blazers are facing. It's it's kind of like, Okay, you've got some pieces here, but who's
your guy? They need to go find a guy, and that's what you know, I think they need to do basically, you know, this summer and if it's not going to be in the draft and it's not going to be a Cooper Flag Dylan Harper type guy. You know, what can you go? Do you know? On the trademarket? And I mean that's that's the challenge they face, you know.
It's it's interesting and I haven't had John for a minute, so we can talk about things that I've talked about with a lot of my NBA guests. And the most uh, you know, the most conservative guess here is eight teams now in pro basketball have been unserious and it makes the product so hard to watch. And yes, I'm operating off the prism of watching our local team completely bail on any sort of competitive nature. And the debate turns into Bill like is this a problem for the league?
And I think the answer is yes, and ratings would back this up. And then the other side of it is they're about to enter a seventy two billion dollar broadcast deal. So if you ask the league office, they're gonna look at you and say, oh wait, what exactly is our problem? Like look at our P and L statement, I get it. Do you think this is do you think this is an issue where the Wembin Yama injury causes san Antonio to go on on tanking Philadelphia has a pick that could go to OKC unless they lose
the rest of their game, so they bench everybody. They've lost nine straight. So again conservative estimates, seven or eight teams. More realistic, probably a third of the league unseerious about competing. Do you think this is a problem in pro basketball?
I think it's a problem in the individual markets for sure. You know, Like I don't think that, you know, I think I think that it is so taxing on a fan base to have to punt on a season, you know, one season after the next and hope for lottery on. I don't know that it is doing enough damage to
the league at large to get change affected. But I think you know what you're talking about with you know, the fatigue in Salt Lake and having never seen a team like this, say, you know, same in Portland over the last few years where they pulled the chair out in the final, you know, after the All Star break
each of the last three years. I mean they you know, had you know, stretches where they went like I want to say, like three and twenty two over the last two months of the season a couple of years ago. I mean, it's just absolutely a miserable flog and it's really hard to see the payoff when you're stuck in it. So I do think that what you lose potentially is you lise lose in market fans for teams that have
traditionally had really good fan support. And what these teams bank on, you know, is that hey, when we start winning again, those people are going to come back. And you know, look, I mean Philadelphia went through one of the most miserable tanking you know, stretches ever and once they were you know, I know they're bad again, but once they were, once they were kind of back in
the mix, I mean, Wealth Fargo Center was full. And so you know, I think that I think that NBA teams have kind of started to take that that fan loyalty for granted that they will come back once you put a winning product on the floor. And I think that that is and I think that is unfortunate that there isn't more consideration about the fan experience year to year and those teams that are trying to get back on top through the.
Lottery on the One of the things that motivated us to book you is we had Howard Beck on the show on Friday, and I asked Howard about the week that occurred, you know, last week in the ecosystem of media and NBA basketball where Lebron James went on Pat McAfee's show and took shots at Stephen A. Smith after Steven A. Smith was talking about Brownie on his show. Then there's the clip of Lebron confronting Steven A at a game. He even took a shot at Windhorse, which
was wild. Nobody has stood up for Lebron James and the media ecosystem more than Brian Winhorse. So I was asking Howard about it, and his reaction was predictably curmudgeon and didn't want to discuss it, and said, my friend Bill orm wrote a piece on his beef with Lebron, which I remembered, but then I pulled up what you
had written. Have it in front of me. Now. So before we get into this, Bill, I want you to give our listeners some context about what happened with you and Lebron, the actual incident that took place.
Well, so the background there, Spence, was that in twenty twenty two, the Lakers, you know, were kind of limping toward another you know, unimpressive finish with Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Lebron was getting restless at the All Star Game. He actually told one of our reporters when I was at the Athletic, Jason Lloyd, that you know, a return to Cleveland wasn't out of the realm of possibility. And so I had written something to the effect of, you know,
this is how Lebron does it. He's exerting pressure on the franchise by kind of starting to drop breadcrumbs that he could leave if things don't get better, you know, as they don't start making moves. He did quoted less sneak, you know, f them picks, you know, trade the picks for help. Now, you know. It was just it was clear what was happening, and so I wrote about that, and Lebron or somebody close to Lebron felt like I had,
that it wasn't true. I think it was. I think the problem really was that it was more true than they wanted to admit. And so in a press conference, Lebron had, you know, taken a shot at me and said that, you know, nobody should listen to me. And then the internet, of course did what it did what it does, and you know, I got a lot of you know, mean mean comments and threats, including you know, a Google Earth image of my home from somebody who said,
you know, you better stop lying about Lebron. And so I had a conversation with Lebron about it, and the point I wanted to sort of you know, this was after a press conference in the hallway at Staples Center, and the point I wanted to kind of make to him was, you know, when he uses his platform to come after people like me, people like Brian Windhorst as well, even though Brian has a bigger platform than I do, you know, he doesn't have security, you know, he has
you know, presumably you know, the same amount of security as I have, which at the time was a ring doorbell and a golden Retriever. And so I told Lebron, when you use a platform to come after people like that, even though we might be critical of you, when you are as directly and vocally critical of us, it puts a target on us in a way, you know, and it gives people like kind of the the bad actors permission to come out of the woodwork and think they're
acting on his behalf. And he really rejected that. So we went back and forth, and as the conversation regressed, he finally just said it, well, better buy a gun, and that was sort of the uh, that was sort of the acme of our of our encounter on that particular issue.
What was your reaction, because I had a similar situation I had, and you know, every time I tell the story, I have to put the context on it. I'm not saying that all BYU fans are like this, but a number of years ago I was working at a different
station where a coworker of mine broke a story. I didn't even break the story, but a coworker of mine broke a story about a guy named Dwayne Busby, who was some BYU super fan, if I remember correctly, he was on staff down there, and they found out it's wild to say this with the current landscape of college athletics, but he was providing some assistance to athletes and you know, things that right now are a legal and B you
just don't even think about. But back this was like two thy twelve or thirteen, a coworker of mine reported it, and our entire station became the you know, the target for a grip of BYU fans, and one of them did the same thing sent a picture of my house to my feed with a threatening message, and that was the first time I went, oh, my gosh, okay, this is It's no longer sending me pictures of certain things or making fun of me for mistakes I made when
I was younger, Like, this is real, this is personal. That's where I live, that's where I'm at right now. It was one of the most disconcerting, uncomfortable things that ever happened to me. What was your reaction and your wife's reaction when that message spilled in.
You know, I had maybe I maybe I had a detachment from it, just because I had at the time was spending so much time on social media and Twitter, and I kind of rolled my eyes and a lot of the stuff that happens there, even something as personal as that. But my wife was really was really frightened, and just the idea, you know, let me listen to me.
We had young children, you know, she you know, I was traveling a lot for work, all those things, and the idea that somebody had gone to that level of effort to spook us at that point, you don't know, you know, maybe you assume that it's not a real threat, but that's not something that's something you can only be wrong about once, and so we you know, like that's why I wouldn't have the conversation with Lebron, Like not because I expected him to undo it, but I wanted
him to think about it next time. And then he did send a tweet subsequently telling people to leave me alone, which surprised I was surprised because I thought I thought that that would actually only further stoke the fire, but it did sort of subside after that.
I wonder, as a guy who covered Lebron in Los Angeles for a number of years, like, look, I'm not a Lebron hater. Okay, this this guy was put on the cover of a magazine at seventeen and we all told him your next and he was. And he has done everything from an on court standpoint to justify the attention he received as a child, okay, and off the court, you know, there are there aren't a ton of Lebron
James controversies that look really, really bad. So I wonder if you could help me understand why does Lebron wade into these battles with Bill orm Why does Lebron wade into these battles with even Stephen A. Smith, And look the Stephen A Smith skip bailification of media is something I push back on all the time. I don't do the show the way they do. I understand that the you know, the piece of real estate he's carved out puts him on a different level than most of us.
That's he's one hundred million dollar media personality. But you know, Steven A. Smith, Bryan Windhorse, who again, what are you? Brian Winhorse has stood up for Lebron more than any media member or or if it's Bill arm whatever it is. Why do you think Lebron wades in these waters when he does not have to at all? I don't understand what, what, what service the what purpose this serves for him? I don't get it, Bill, I don't.
And I think the best thing that I've been able to kind of land on is that, in any sort of spew, if you will, the power dynamic with Lebron and literally anyone else is so dramatically skewed towards Lebron that he can't lose. Like he cannot, you know, in terms of like winning or losing the argument, Like he has the fan base, he has the support. You know,
what he says goes. So if he's feeling like he's in a back and forth, all he has to do is basically signal boosts his opinion or his point of view, and he gets the support so he can't lose. And so it's like, you know, it's you know, it's it's flyswatter against the fly. Even even Steven a by the way, who has a massive platform, you know, his audience and platform, and the people who would stand for Stephen A. Smith, you know, whoever they are, is is nowhere near what
Lebron has. And so I think that it's you know, you're he's so accustomed to winning and by ascension being right that I think that he ends up kind of abusing his his his power in those dynamics. Now the thing that I think ends up happening. And listen, I'm not a Lebron hater by any stretch. I have incredible respect from Lebron. I enjoyed my four years covering him,
getting to know him on a professional level. But I do think that by wading into these waters, it it shows a level of like pettiness and insecurity that I don't think that he would really want to be part of his resume or his image, and the more he does it and the more times he takes on these silly battles, I do think it has a negative impact on like what we would call his legacy, right, And I'm not I don't think this hits like knocks him
down in the you know, who's greater him, Jordan whatever, whatever, But like it does sort of feed into some of these stereotypes about him on the court, right, which is like, you know, he's not as mentally tough, or he's not as clutch or you know, I mean obviously that you know, didn't want to take the last shot for a long time, dogged him in his career. He's not as clutch as
much as Jordan was. You know, these things I realized they're not a one to one comparison, but I do think they sort of feed into some of these stereotypes that Lebron faces. And when we think about like, you know, late career Kareem, you know, Kareem was a guy who who picked you know, various you know, various battles with writers and media, and you know, would was you know, overly focused on these perceived slights and that becomes a
big part of his legacy and how he remembered. I think there is a risk for Lebron that if he continues to take these battles, this will be part of what people remember about late career Lebron, and I just don't think it's very flattering.
Well, Riz King, appreciate the time today. Where can people go get all the work, whether it's the videos, the podcast, what you're doing, as far as your writing goes, where can everybody go find it?
Well, I'm doing most of my social media on Blue Sky these days, Spence. I've mostly jumped off of the the X machine except for infrequent, infrequently sharing a column I've written there, So Blue Sky, Bill Orum, Instagram, Bill Oregonian, TikTok too. And then I got to tell you, I'm loving these videos we're doing. I'm posting them when I can. But you know, give the Oregonian a follow on social, Instagram,
everywhere else, and then of course the column regularly. You know, various various topics, points of view on orgon live dot com and if you happen to be in Portland, Oregon listening to Spence from here where I am pick up a print newspaper. We're back in broadsheet.
O love it, love it. I still whenever I can I pick up a paper, I still read books. I don't know, man, maybe I'm old about Bill. It's always great catching up. Are you coming into town anytime soon? We'd love to catch a beverage with you.
Well, I'm just not entirely. I still have I still have the Lebron haters who are who are concerned themselves with my whereabouts. So I don't know if I needed, if I should, if I can actually give you my travel schedule on air smart, But let me just say that there's a chance will be in Utah at some point in the not so distant future, and I'd love to see you too.
Yeah, buddy, don't be a stranger. Thanks for the time.
Be good, Okay, hey, thank you, good tiking.
All right. The great Bill Orm spent a number of years down here with the trip, and now he's back home in the backyard where he grew up, riding for the Oregonian. His piece on the Lebron Beef I thought was really good and make some really really fair and salient points. I don't understand why Lebron wades in these he doesn't have to like at all, but I appreciate Bill's time. Bill stops by today courtesy of our good friends at IFA Country Stores, and he drive to the
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