About an hour and twenty five minutes away from tip off at Madison Square Garden tonight Game two Knicks Pacers after a historic collapse by the New York Knicks in Game one. We also have playoff hockey tonight for the Dallas Edmonton game.
Keep it right here on ESPN seven hundred.
If you're looking for the basketball on the Eastern Conference final side, checkout the fan for Game two of Knicks Pacers. Andy Larson, Salt Lake Tribune, Happy Friday, Andy, How are we doing?
I'm good man.
How are you?
I'm doing well. I'm doing well.
How did you digest that horrific collapse by the Knicks and the comeback by the Pacers Game one?
I mean it was fun, right, Like I mean, I think that's one of the great things about basketball, is that like that can happen that like an aaron Ne Smith and all of a sudden hit six threes and you're right back in it. And I loved Halburton, you know,
with the nods, Reggie Miller. I love that, you know, Reggie shot when he did the choking symbol also was tie to tie the game, and so I thought it was a brilliant homage and lookay, I have to admit I'm you know, I suspect we are on different sides of this, but I am rooting for the Pacers a little bit because they're a team that's built in a really interesting way, like has just nailed trades with their with Pascalciokoman obviously Haliburton, and then drafted really well around
him with you know, picks six through thirty. Really like it's it's kind of a cool story that's just gone so under the radar, and you know, they have every good of a chance as they you know, it's the next to them, maybe better to make it to the NBA Finals.
Now does it matter who makes it out of the East When Oklahoma City appears to have a level that nobody else has and maybe Boston has it when they're fully healthy, but they're out of course Tatum hurt and and look, you know this, you've been watching them all year and the net is is historic.
It's not like they just found this level this week.
But it's just it's I feel the same way andy about Oklahoma City now that I felt about Boston this time last year.
And I just feel like they have a level that nobody else does.
Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent. I would say the only thing is, you know you you want to get to the NBA Finals because you never know what's going to happen healthwise, right Like, if we're honest, the Toronto Raptors, the Kawai Toronto Raptors of twenty nineteen weren't favored to win the NBA Finals then, but then all of a sudden, Clay goes down and then Kevin Durant tears his achilles and then it's Stepan versus you know, a pretty good solid Raptors team, right Like, so if
Shay goes down for whatever reason in the NBA Finals are between now and then, like you know what, I don't think that's likely, but in that five percent chance, then yeah, I think then you know, the Pacers have a really good shot at it. But yeah, you're right, like healthy as is this Thunder team is rolling. They're too good. They have been good, all too good all year.
Like it's it's pretty clearly a fund in five or six situation, I think against either eatern conference team if both sides are healthy.
Shaye, excuse me, Shaye is your MVP. I believe when you last joined us. You said that you were going to cast your vote for Nicola Jokicic, which I have no problem with it all. I feel like and I'm I'm not you know me, I'm not usually a fence center.
I'm not like this. I just thought both were deserving and Shaye gets it.
Give me your thoughts, yeah, I think, yeah, completely reasonable and a good pick, like just like you have no problems with anyone who went with SJA. You know, I thought of really telltale series between the two last you know, last week.
And two weeks ago.
Like, just both of them are very good players. Shay has a little bit more help. Jokic is probably more heliocentric offensively, right, Like, just in order for the Nuggets to succeed, they need Jokic, and in order for the Thunder to succeed, they are they are in a better
place without Shay. That being said, you know, Shay has had an awesome individual year, and I think these first few games have also served to kind of draw a line between him and like the other stars of the league, like an Anthony Edwards, who is struggling a little bit, was struggling with the efficiency, can't get to his spots. You know like it has been it hasn't been easy
where I think Shay has made it look easy. And yes, you know, like people will complain about the fouls in game one, Game two is about as clean as of a.
Performance as you're ever going to see from a star.
And he maybe had even a better game, you know, like he is kind of the classic mid range sniper scorer guard that like I think NBA basketball fans love to see and so like that is, you know, and that has been a successful formula in the playoffs before and it is certainly right now.
So is somebody that had a front row seat to the Rudy go Bear experience.
And you know, I'm a Rudy guy.
I appreciated everything he did here, and you know, I don't think he'll ever get all the credit he deserved for the way he conducted himself when I think his teammate, more often than not, was the guy throwing him under the bus.
Now, Rudy was not innocent.
Of everything, but I'll tell you what, Andy, Oklahoma City is so intentional about putting him in switches. And it's Shane, it's Jalen specifically. But what's interesting is they're feasting in the mid range. It's not like, let's get him out behind the three point line. Rudy wants to play and drop. We know this, But what is fair to say about what happens when Rudy is putting those positions where other teams do seem to find a lot of success by getting him out on switches on perimeter players.
Yeah, look, it's not about getting switches and putting him on the perimeter against ISO and going one on one right like that is actually a pretty big, bad mass move when you look at it over the aggregate, Like he's actually pretty good at staying in front, and you waked a lot of shot clock in the dribbling and you know.
Like the backing it out and all that kind of stuff.
I think what Degnel and the Thunder have done really well at is you attack him in the pick and roll, go drop, and then make the defender so that it is just you and Rudy now from fifteen feet away while.
The ball handlers on the move, rather than.
From twenty five feet away outside the three point line kind of holding onto it. And I think that's where Rudy can kind of get in between a little bit where he's you know, thinking about room protection first, but ends up giving up the twelve to fifteen foot mid range floater kind of stuff. But I think Sja and Jalen.
Was a really good at that has always been a little bit of a problem.
For him, if I'm honest, you know, like that is a lot of what we saw in the Rocket series when the Jazz played him. For example, when Westbrook was making his jumper, it was a little bit of a problem.
In the Thunder series, it is.
I would also say that I do think, and have thought this for a couple of years now, that Rudy is not quite the defender that he was in his hugef Rian like he is at that age where it makes sense that he has lost the step. And I think he has lost the step and it's not a huge step, and you know, I think he makes them a well, it makes him a second team All defense guy rather than.
A first team All defense guy.
And I think, you know, we're seeing a little bit of that where the margins are pretty fine and the Thunder taking advantage of them.
All right, let's move over to some Jazz stuff.
Since you and I last spoke, the all rookie teams were released and the Jazz are not in the mix and have not been in the mix for very many postseason honors. That's what happens when you're unserious about winning and you don't have a lot of good basketball players and you're a basketball team but holding out hope for maybe Isaiah or Kyle to potentially grab us. I don't think either of them we're going to be first team.
Wasn't a great rookie class, you know, the Reshache Kid, the number one overall pick, Stefan Castle Rookie of the Year. Are you surprised that neither Cody nor Kyle uh finished on the at least the second team All NBA Rookie.
No, because neither you know.
First of all, a lot of voters are just gonna look at the win loss record and be like, you know, why am I going for a Jetman. Second, a lot of voters are going to look at the points totals and why am I voting for these guys?
Right?
And you know, kind of the interesting thing about Isaiah was his assist number. The interesting things about Kyle Philipasky
was his efficiency in shooting and scoring the ball. But wasn't like the number of points they put up, whereas if like either of them had put up you know, thirteen points a game or something, I think there's a realistic shot there are second team or first team, but you know, they weren't able to didn't have that chance, and you know, frankly, maybe probably weren't that good in their rookie years. Right, So look, I would have had
probably both of them over Bob Carrington. I did in my vote, but I don't think and as well, he's missed me from New Orleans. I don't think I had him on my second team either, But I don't think that the grand miscarriage of justice. You know, Isaiah Collier missed out on the second team by one point compared to Bob Carrington. I thought Collier, when you take into account the passing over the second half of the year,
did have a better season overall than Carrington. But again, like it's hard to get two up in arms when you're talking about spot eleven versus tenth in a ROS rookie class on a team that doesn't you know, on two teams that didn't win anything, right, It's just it's hard to know who is right in that scenario. I will say, like the Jazz and Jazz management were very happy that bub Carrington made the game winning shot in Game eighty two. It didn't end up mattering, but like
that made a the Jazz management happy. So there were some jokes about voting Bub Carrington Rookie.
Of the Year.
Made to me, but look like it's again no grand miscarriage of justice.
This is fine.
Those guys were about the eleventh and twelfth best rookies in the class. That's where they ended up. It's good that they got the eleventh and twelfth best rookies in the class with picks number twenty eight and number thirty two.
As we are about one month and change, almost exactly one month away from the NBA Draft, I think everybody's moved on from the disappointment that the Jazz are at five, even though mathematically that was one of the more likely spots in the fall. Give us some intel, what are you hearing? You know, you hear all this stuff. They're going to be bullish and try to move up. Maybe san Antonio
looks at moving too, because there's some redundancy. Although reports are they going to keep it in draft Dylan Harper and let them grow alongside Stefon Castle and learn from Daron Fox.
Maybe Philly's in play at three.
That's a complicated transaction based off of what it would take to get three. If it's Paul Georgian return, does that make sense? Are you willing to move on from Larry?
What? What are you hearing prior to draft night a month away? What give us some intel? Andy?
Yeah, Look, I mean they are open to everything, right.
I would also say that those conversations don't ramp up now, right, Like, it's still a month, in more than a month until the NBA Draft. You know, they're working on scheduling those prospects to get in that. It does sound like they are going to be successful in meeting with or working out all of those guys in that range. So I think that's notable, you know, besides probably the top two.
But look, it's you know, I think they've also signaled probably that this is not They're not going to be giving up the farm to move from number five to number three, right Like, I don't think that they they see those players in kind of the same tier, And so yes, maybe you give up something, you know, if Philadelphia wants to compete next year and is interested in
the column Sexton. Sure, you know, like I think that's something that would be a good use of an expiring calm secton and I think obviously the Jazz would.
Be willing to do that as well. But like in terms of visit worth a lowry marketing, yeah, probably not.
And so you have that conversation. But I also think that, you know, they the plan scene still seems to be the long game, right like that is, as much as there was a lot of handering, and I think reasonably so when the picks fell to number five about the tanking and the long term plan not working out, I don't see a huge shift coming in terms of like them all of a sudden going out and getting some of the players on the trade market. So that's what
I continue to hear again. You know, look, there aren't those conversations right now for the most part. They're all like little kind of hey, you know, isn't it interesting san Antonio got the number two pick kind of conversations with league exacts, like everyone's just kind of.
Talking generally about the league to each other.
No, I'm talking in specifics right now, And so I think that's that's where the Jazz stand right now.
As you've been able to dig in to study, watch, learn about the prospects and understand the landscape ahead of.
The Jazz who are drafted at five.
Have you landed on who you perceived to be the best case scenario available at five and who the Jazz should walk away from for fans learning about names, Who's best case at five?
In your opinion?
Andy, that's a good question, and I honestly want to do more work on it.
And I know that's a top answer, but I'm.
Working on building a stat model right now, going back to Andy Analytics mass days like yea, So I want to wait until I finish that before I like, really, you know, stake my name, because let me be honest, what happened last year is I thought Cody Williams was
a really good ticket number ten. I thought he was it was a good selection that he fell to number ten, and I thought it was the best outcome for the Jazz and that made me look really really dumb, and it may jazz look really some too, frankly like, and look, there's still a chance Tody Williams, you know, six seasons his NBA career, but look when he had as bad of a rookie season as he did. The odds are short, and you would not have drafted him number ten if
you were to redraft last year's draft again. So I want to approach this draft number five more important drafts, better draft, with a little bit more rigorousness than I did last year because it sent me astray.
And so yeah, I don't know.
You know, there are a lot of good names, and I'm sure you thought about them on the show, but I'm trying to figure it out.
Like my sense is, I.
Don't love Ace Bailey. I don't love that archetype of player. I would be more in favor of a Trade Johnson RVD film or a Conkine ple But like I again, have to know more than just vibes at this point because I did such a bad job Blackcraft.
When you say you're sure I talk about these prospects on the show, is that an admission that you're not tuned in every day two to six live.
I you know, I just missed that last half hour. That's all where I'm sure you're talking about them all the time. No, I am.
I'm busy learning.
The news, you know, And there's a lot there's a lot of news out there. One thing that you and I haven't discussed Walker Kestler extension eligible coming up.
How do you think this plays out?
Yeah, it's a really good question.
You know.
I think ultimately most likely is that the two sides kind of come to a deal, like in that twenty five million dollar a year range, you know, plus minus five a year, which is where you know the league is kind of extended guys in that platte you know, so like the Spurs with Kelvin Johnson or Devin Vessel or you know, like kind of good players who you know can play roles on great teams, probably sub all star potential, but guys who want to keep around are kind of in that range.
And I think that's.
Where Walker likely finds themselves. But yeah, you know, they can't really do that until later on in the summer, until September, and that's you know, when you should expect that to happen. That being said, you know, I also think it really.
Really matters what else you're doing around the team.
And you know, like if you draft Metalwaks, who I don't think you should, but at number five, then all of a sudden, maybe you're thinking about Walker Kessler in a different way. So we'll see, but I think generally like there was one of the things, one of frankly, the only good things that came out of last season was that Walker clearly made himself into a figure, into a player that you want to have on the roster
moving forward. And given that the Jazz have kind of not a full out else going for them right now in terms of young, really talented talent, and then the fact that you also have to get to the salary floor, it just does make sense to give Walker an extension.
Do you think based off of what has now transpired not just with this draft cycle, but every draft lottery since twenty nineteen, the Jazz will put their best foot forward this year? No inventing injuries, about marketing, no cittying veteran players, no telling Walker Keshler you are Ray Allen from nineteen ninety eight. Now, do you think we might have a serious approach to competing based off of how everything played out last year?
I'm skeptical because, if anything, there's more incentive to tank, not less, you know, like as much as Cooper Flagg with a president, and I truly think he's a very excellent prospect, like one of them be one of the better number one picks in the last ten years. Like I think at the top of this draft they are even more good dudes who you might be even more sure.
On, right, Like I feel really confident.
On Age Debanta, and I feel really confident on Darren Peterson, and I feel maybe even most confident on Cameron Boozer, like his floor is so high, so all of a sudden, now you have even more incentives to try to get a top three pick, not just one pick, not just a fourteen percent chance, but a forty two percent chance at one of those three three franchise changing guys, plus
a number of guys blew them. Like, I don't think that the incentives have actually changed all that much other than public pressure, like you know, fan ticket right, you know, ticket interest goes down, people get more mad at Ryan Smith, et cetera. He's been pretty uh, he's been pretty hard to.
You know, stone face to that.
So to this point, I'm I don't know if that changes necessarily. I think they probably just continue to go down the.
Spat So Windhorst and McMahon and Bontevs last week did a pod on The Hoop Collective about the era of parody in the NBA, and we had Bobby Marks on the show. I think it was Monday of this week, and Bobby did just a masterful job of kind of walking us through while we are smack dab in the middle of a great time in the NBA, if you are a fan of a basketball team that plays its
basketball in a city like Salt Lake. And as a result of those conversations, I did like an entire segment to open the show about how you know with the new CBA and billionaires clearly scared of the second apron if you always wondered what the answer to the question what scares billionaires is? And pro sports in the NBA, it's a tax bill like Boston's gonna have a five hundred million dollars just for the right to have the team that will not have Jason Tatum next year and
lost in the second round. The new CBA expires in twenty thirty, and there's already a significant amount of pushback to what it's done in pro basketball to not allow teams to keep their great teams together based off of punitive economic penalties.
And you said out a tweet that said it's disappointing.
The Jazz are missing out on the NBA's parody era. It is unfortunate that the Jazz are not in a better spot to capitalize on this landscape that's allowed teams in Oklahoma City, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Denver, Minnesota to build really good teams. What's your take on it? What are your thoughts on it? Expand on the tweet that you sent.
Yeah, look, I mean it's hard because I don't know that it's their fault, and I don't think like the Donovan Mitchell Rudy Gobert Jazz is that interesting in this era either. I think ultimately the economics of that team, just with the cat and the way that they had treated and misused some of their like, meant that.
They weren't going to compete either.
But you know, in the course of jazz history, there's a couple of famous times when the Jazz had very good teams and came up against greatness and lost, and.
And that's just how that happens, right, Like, But if the.
Stock in Them and the Lone Jazz are in the twenty twenty five NBA Finals or in NBA playoffs, like.
I think they win the thing. I think they.
I think they win the title, and so from a Utah perspective and a Jazz time perspective, it is disappointing that like the cycle of success and failure has lined up this way so that in an era where there's more parody than ever, the Jazz are at their lowest point in franchise history.
Now, Like, do I expect that to continue? I kind of do.
Actually, I think this current setup allows owners to sell their team.
Their fan base is hope a little bit. I do think.
Overall the Warriors dynasty was probably actually bad for the league. I think there are some tweaks they can make about keeping their own teams, keeping their own players, and you know, whether that's a franchise tag or a lesson salary cap
impact or something like that. But ultimately you also look at the TV deal and everyone's making too much money to change, And I think that's one thing we learned and the last go around is like, Hey, if everyone's making hundreds of millions of dollars here, the incentive to
change a ton is not going to be there. So I think ultimately there's not going to be a ton of support for changing drastically the way that the NBA operates, and then so it becomes, you know, can the Jazz take advantage with their own era at some point, you know, let's be honest, three, four or five years down the road, and that is to be determined by the draft picks they make and whether they get luckery on lottery night, and like whether or not you know Larry continues in
all start kind of status or it falls off a bit, and whether or not you know Isaiah call you is a starting point guard or a backup point guard or not an NBA player. Like all this is still super influx. But I you know, That's all I was trying to say is just like, hey, the fine waves have just lined up in the exact opposite way from the.
Way you would want him to if you were a jazz fan.
All right, Andy, we got to do it before I say you lose. If you believe, then you'll just stand up on your feet and you'll shout it out loud. The problem is, goals are fun. Two hundred and fifty minutes I think now between goals for our cell win listen for.
Again.
We established earlier that you listened every minute of the show live, so I don't have to rehash what Pablo said this week, but just in case you may may have missed that small portion. Pablo and then Kurt smit the next day. They both said that they been informed by new ownership that they are not interested in selling players. They're not interested in selling Diego Luno. They're not interested
in selling young players who are playing well for the club. Now, if a team in La Liga or whatever calls RSL and says thirty million for Diego, you probably do it, and I understand why, but that was kind of new. That was, you know, positive news to ascertain from. I mean, I will have to see because at this point, the bottom line is they just badly need economic confusion. And Pablo said he thinks they're two attacking players away from
being really good. Kurt essentially cooperated that as well. So while the present certainly appears to be bleak and as you point out on your Twitter page, not a lot to hope for right now, I just wondered what you make of that piece of information that the Millers seem to be maybe moving away from the ethos of developing and selling players and maybe we'll have good young players for a long time, which is what you need to do to build a winning team.
Yeah, it's so interesting because you know. Then Pablo reportedly, at least according to the Apple TV broadcast, said the opposite that he feels Diego Luna would like real.
Quick, real quick, real quick, real quick.
Not to interrupt you, but I asked Pablo that very question, and I was glad I did because he did not say that it was taken out of context, so the context was based off of how well he's played. He wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of offers this summer.
Okay, well, look and you know that that maybe the case. And I do think like keeping Diego Luna is is number one, you know, important thing to do if you want a successful RSL.
You know, I think to some degree also depends on Diego Luna, whether or not he wants to spend his entire career in an RSL uniform or not, based on the quality of the team or whether he thinks he can go accomplish bigger things in Europe, you know, like for a lot of soccer players understandably so if they're doreamed to be on like Champions League stages and not US Open Cup stages and so yeah, we'll see.
But like, regardless, that is great to hear that.
It is good to hear that they want to keep young players in. And then, you know, so with the model RSL has chosen, which is the two designated player for under twenty two slot model, that means you've got two kind of older, talismanic guys who have to set the the caliber of the team, and then you have four twenty two year old ish guys who are on their you know, up and coming trajectory who can also help that you can spend unlimited to uncapped money on.
That's the MLS rule.
Diego Luna is one of your under twenty two guys, Brian o'hade is clearly one of your under twenty two guys. Then you need to do better with like the Nelson Pelasio spot, right like, but nevertheless that can be done Tom nick Mark, who's another under twenty two guy.
Then uh, you just need to be.
Way, way way better on the designated players scale, right Like, I think it's fair to call Thiago Gonzalez a failure at this point, and he's your only designated player. You've left that second slot open. So look, I mean given how long the Miller deal was in the works, right, Like they first have those conversations in November, they did, to some extent have the leeway to say, hey, this is how we'd like to see the club change when
we're in charge. Now, maybe they didn't have they didn't feel good about it.
Whatever.
But the disappointing week after the Millers finalized the paperwork they did the press conference and then only signs Willia Gatta like is you know, leaves me to be more
pessimistic than optimistic. Also maybe the fact that I'm a skeptic, but like, in the end, I would love to see a Miller organization really invest into the team because the team desperately needs it, and you are letting down players the likes of Diego Luna, Rafael Cabral and Mecha and Elli et cetera, because they you know, the team does not lack talent necessarily, it's just so bleak on the offensive side of things that it's holding everyone else back.
All right, any good stuff today, man, appreciate the time, have a great weekend, and.
We'll catch up soon.
Sounds good, thanks then.
Andy Larson, Salt Lake Tribune covers the Jazz a bunch of other things as well.
At Andy B. Larson is where you find him.