The fifth pick in the NBA Draft will be made by the Utah Jazz.
The number one pick in.
The twenty twenty five NBA Draft goes to the Dallas Mavericks.
You're just gonna rub it in, aren't you? All day?
You're just gonna misbehave and rub it in all day, aren't you.
I don't know. I don't know what to do. I know it hurts, but we have to talk it out. I guess we get out now.
We do, we do and it does hurt, but you know, it's the reality of how this process works.
Love it or not.
Whether or not you think it should be changed, certainly a different conversation. But our first guest on a Tuesday afternoon was in the room where it happened. Shout out Hamilton, Andy Larson, Salt Lake Tribune, Andy, Happy Tuesday, buddy.
How we doing? Hello? Andy? Hello? Andy? What's going on with Andy?
Can you hear me?
Hey? Hi? Andy?
How are you sorry about that? Yeah? I'm doing well. How about you?
I'm well? So are you still in Chicago?
I am?
Yeah. You are all being here.
They do the media availability tomorrow with all the all the players here at the combine, So we'll get the chance to talk to everyone kind of in the jazz is range along with us or demon and then head back Thursday.
All right, Andy, So I'm just gonna ask you to respond to folks, and we just simply live in a time where if a result doesn't go your way, or if you don't understand why something is the way it is, the easy thing to do is yell that it's rigged or it was stolen or it was taken from you. And the reality is where the jazz landed last night was the most you know, the chances were the highest
of the jazz are going to land where they did. Now, I know it stings, But for all of the hey this is rigged and the fixes in crowd, what do you have to say?
Yeah? Look, I was stunned that that was as much of the reaction as it was that, you know, when I pulled my followers yesterday on Twitter that seventy six present to respond and said that they felt that the lottery is rigged, and I, I don't know. I like, Look I was, I was in the room. You can see the ping pong ball flow around until one gets sucked up, and then they call the number and then you know, there are four that a combination of four
different ping pong balls. You're not really sure which team it's going to be into that last ping pong ball all is drawn, and you know, so it would be extremely difficult to rig given that you have fourteen team executives there, you know, ten of which who are going home unhappy and are are going to have every reason to, you know, raise concern if something were to go wrong, plus fourteen media members there who would make their careers if they could, you know, really report out that the
that the lottery was rigged. And then like, okay, let's say that it is rigged in favor of the Dallas Mavericks, you know, in return for giving Luca don just to the Lakers, which you know, stuff on both ends of deal. But like, uh, how did they convince Anthony Davis to go down with an injury? And how did they get Kyrie to tear his tendency? You know, so we won't play all next season? Right like this, that doesn't make sense.
They were a playoff team before then, So this like quid pro quote, people are the conspiracy theories are turning out. It just doesn't make any sense. Guys like it is. It's the perfect theory that like makes so much sense if you think about it for exactly zero point five milliseconds, and then you know, the rest of us grow up from being twelve years old to kind of understand that, like, hey, the world works this way sometimes and a whole lot
of the time you're gonna get unlucky. And that's that's what happened with the last night.
That's why they call it a lottery.
And you know, for all of the for every piece of if I don't know if you want to call a proof or maybe just an example that feels a little bit uncomfortable, I can throw twenty examples at Jude Indicay.
This thing is not rigged, and it's just how lotteries work.
Now, I understand the disappointment, and honestly, Andy, I share in it. I mean, I was hoping last night the Jazz would land at one, and I was hoping that Cooper Flag would be on his way to our market, because we badly need this team to be far more relevant than it has been outside of the little bubble of people to believe it's more relevant than it actually is.
Like I have national guests on my show every year or every day during the NBA season, and I can't even ask them anything about the team outside of like, hey, what will Cooper flag look like in a Jazz uniform? So I understand the frustration, but it doesn't mean that the fix is in. We just live in this time and place where if something doesn't go your way, instead of critically thinking about it, it's easy to say it was stolen, it was rigged, it was taken from me. Right,
here's where I want to go next, though. Do you like this current format? Because in twenty nineteen, they flatten the odds and essentially they they are not rewarding the worst teams in pro basketball. So that's the message from the league office, like, we don't want you to tank, right like, we don't believe that that is a decision that is steeped in integrity and respect for the way this thing is built. Do you like the way that the current lottery is set up?
Yeah? And I mean then didn't last night work out? Because the Jazz tanked harder and more blatantly and more anti competitively and less honorably than any other team in the NBA this year and potentially, like honestly in league history, like John Collins played forty games this season and was healthy all year long, right like that, it's crazy. You had Walker Kessler missing games as a twenty three year old due to rest when there were days off in
between games. You had him shooting five threes a game even though you knew that he can't shoot threes, right, even though he is a fifty percent free throw shooter. You were kind of hoping, Hey, let's go in and see how many threes Walker can shoot, and in fact made him run in practice when he didn't get up at least five a game, like come on, like you
know the idea. Yes, this went badly for the Jazz, but from a league perspective, like if you want if your number one priority is preventing teams from tanking, then this is absolutely what you want. I think there's a conversation to be had on do you want teams to tank less than you want them to rewards them with
the number one overall selection or the best draft selections? Right, like is the should the priority be parody to some extent that you can cycle these teams out of the bottom, get them higher into contention windows more quickly, and then all of a sudden Okay, it doesn't make any sense to flatten the lottery odds like they did in twenty nineteen. So I think, to me, honestly, that probably should be
more of a priority than preventing tanking. But given that preventing tanking was seen as the league's number one issue in twenty nineteen and it's still seen as so important today, then what happened last night makes sense, like and it fits within that that setup. It just totally depends on what your priorities are as a result. Look, the Jazz are going to be bad for the years to come.
But you know what if the Jazz were in the league, you know, if they're in European Soccer or whatever, a team without a draft or a draft that does a league without a draft, or a league where drafts don't matter right like, then you just see teams stagnate at the top and at the bottom of the league. So anyway, I think it's a totally fair conversation to have, and is a conversation in fact, that the league most powerful people are having at the combine and in the Chicago hotel rooms as we speak.
Well, and you know, ultimately people around here today don't want to hear this, But for all the pushback and the flak that the NBA is taking today and that Adam Silver is taking today, last night was an absolute win for them because it's going to make the off season incredibly interesting for a league that loses a ton of its market share to Pro football quite frankly, in.
Just a matter of you know, five or six weeks.
Last night was an absolute win for the NBA based on what they try to accomplish by flattening those odds in twenty nineteen. It's going to bring attention, intrigue, probably gonna bring a lot of moves, probably going to bring some trades, maybe even some big time trades on Draft Night. So folks don't want to hear that today because what
it wasn't Andy, was a win for the Jazz. And again, when it's not a win for your side, the easy thing to do, without being a critical thinker is yell that the you know it's rigged and that it's been stolen. The complicated thing, though, is what does this mean for a roster construction in a city like Salt Lake, for a team like the Jazz, that, if we're honest, Andy have not found franchise pillars. They wanted to stay here longer than seven or eight years since John and Carl were here.
And that's the reality. So what's next? What do they do? What do the Jazz do? What are the next steps?
Yeah, I mean you draft the best player who can at number five, and look, I think there are probably three guys with like some some kind of star upside at number five. I don't think like it's a hopeless position to be and I think you'd much rather be the Jazz at number five than the Wizards at number six. And then look, you can sell yourself on the Hey, you can always trade for Trey Young, you can always trade for Zion Williamson, and the Jazz have draft assets
to do that. And heck, you know, maybe that makes sense. Maybe you give up on the tanking thing and just kind of go for it with that level of player.
Then you need something crazy to happen with the rest of the roster, right like otherwise you are in the Atlanta or you know, New Orleans kind of the the middle treadmill where you know, you need a second star to appear next to those guys, like I think the Tray Young, Lowry Markin and Walker Kessler team is a thirty five win team, you know, maybe a little bit
less given how competitive the Western conferences. But on the other hand, you do have the chance to make the play in tournament, and then you have a chance for things to go right if there are injuries and your side of the bracket or whatever right like so, or if somebody unexpectedly pops and becomes a star you know that you didn't see coming, like a Nicola jokicch for example.
So that's one pass forward. The other path forward is stay the course and tank again next year and go for Aja Debansa and Cam Booser and Darren Peterson and these guys who are projected to be franchise changing players next year. I mean, it's too soon, really, do I
think understand what the Jazz want to do. I think there is some uncertainty as to like what Ryan Smith will instruct the team to do and whether or not, you know, he sees this as a turning point in the team's decision making, or again, if they want to stay.
The course all right.
So I felt so bad for Ashley Smith, who had this look on her face after Mark Tatum revealed the envelope with the Jazz at five that she had just seen a ghost.
But that's all we could see on TV.
You were there, you know, the reaction of the other jazz contingent, Ryan whoever else was there? What did that look and sound like? After I was revealed the jazz were picking at five?
Yeah, so I, I, you know, had a lot of interaction with Justin Zannik because he was in the lottery room and we had an hour to watch the TV show after the lottery happened, but we're sequestered in that room until the TV show ends, and so yeah, I had a lot of time to get just Zenic's reaction with his shots. Disappointed, you know, and you know, was just kind of bewildered laster at like how unlucky they had gotten and kind of what had happened with the
with the ping pong balls last night. Then you can you kind of get led out of this room. You have to grab your envelope from the table which has all your phone and watches and everything else in it. And then so then I run upstairs to the ballroom and as I run out, it's Ryan Smith walking out with his family, Like clearly just stun devastated like he gave me. It's just a shake of his head, like
he was distraught. I think that's the right word to say, as you know, was just leaving that room as quickly as possible where the TV studio at the filming happens. And then you know, saw Will Hardy for a second, who you know, just again was kind of disappointed, more silent rather than anything else. Never saw Danny Ames. And then after that followed Justin Zannik back to a hotel suite where we did the post media availability kind of
on the record. So yeah, that's kind of what I experienced last night in terms of running into those guys. Have seen a couple of them today at the Draft Combine itself. But like you know, there's an understanding that like, yes, we prepared for worst case scenario, but we were really hoping best case scenario, or at least an okay case scenario happened last night, and worst case scenario is struck and a means that this starts all over again and is as it's not a great place to be as
a franchise site. And they know that, all right.
So let's dig into the number five pick and I suppose it depends on who you read, who you listen to. You know, the Athletics got a couple of guys that do a really good job. Gavoni over to ESPN, has been pretty steadfast, and his belief is that there are four players in order, and I don't think he's changed
his order once and he didn't change it today. That are franchise changing pieces, of course, and this is according to to Gavoni, because you're to your point, Andy, you can find franchise changing pieces at forty two or wherever Jokic win. And you know, I can't help but think about the draft process for Stephen Curry, who literally was a generational changer. I think he went seven, so Cooper Flag at one, and then Dylan Harper too.
We'll see what san Antonio does.
Like I said, if you're the NBA, last night was a win because there's gonna be a lot of intrigue about some of these moves. Ace Bailey at three, This is Gavoni vj edgecumb at four. Then he has the Jazz taking Jeremiah Fears, a point guard out of Oklahoma. Trey Johnson, who can really shoot it from Texas, will be there, and then you get into like I get
the jazz fan frustration. We're like, wait a second, we just lost almost seventy games and Kank Nipple might be the prize to respect, but best case scenario at five, Andy, in your opinion, sounds like what I've.
Honestly got to like look at these guys and make a firm decision for kind of myself on who's that. You know, I've watched a decent amount of film and trying on and you know, honestly, some of that process is going to be talking to them tomorrow and learning more about their personalities. So like Ace Bailey right, like is a tremendous shooter, shot forty six percent on mid range shots last year, which is awesome, Like you know, to make that many of your tough mide range shots
is star level. And then it's like, okay, but why did you take two hundred mid rangers last year? And why were you not able to get to the rim more often or the free throw line more often? And why are your turnover numbers as bad? And you know, ultimately, do you think that you have to be Carmelo Anthony in order to succeed in the NBA or are you willing to work on your role player skills? Are you willing to use your lengths and athleticism to block shots and defend and move the ball and be part of
the good offense rather than just the offense. Like I'm excited to learn about those things when we get the chance to talk to them tomorrow. Vj. Edsoms is a better pick by a lot of draft model if you just look at like the statistical analysis models. You know, Darryl Morey in Philadelphia is gonna care a lot about but he's also you know, just six four and and is not did not have great shooting numbers in his
freshman year. On the other hand, his block and steel numbers are terrific, and he also was a terrific dunker. So the athleticism is really popping kind of on boltons of floor. So that's nice. And then yeah, you know, I think probably those two guys are taking number three and number four, and then you're left with Trey Johnson. A good shooter, does he do the other things you need in order to win? Does he defense? Does he playmake as well as he needs to? You know, I
think that's a real question. I think there's a real chance that he's like pretty Buddy Healdy in the NBA. And then Jeremiah Fears, who is a tiny point guard but is as dynamic as as it gets and put up some really awesome stats in his freshman year. Our guy Jason Batakia, and this should not be trusted at all, is a huge Oklahoma you know, is an Oklahoma Sooner. Went to you, Oh you daily guy. He says he's Kyrie Irving, and I'm like, dude, no, he's not. Can
like best Casey be like Deer and Foxy? Okay, maybe all of a sudden I can start to see it. So look, you know, this is the first top five pick. This is spin. This is a spin Justin Zanna gave yesterday. But it's true. This is the first top five picked the Jazz I've had since twenty fourteen. And you are going to get a higher caliber prospect at number five than you were at number nine or number ten when you were drafting Taylor Hendricks or Cody Williams.
So as I alluded to and talked about this off the top today, as a result of how this went down last night, there's a tremendous possibility for a lot of movements, a lot of players could be available. We already know that according to Shams, Giannis is open to being moved.
By the way, it's now been verified.
Jason Tatum did rupture hiss Achilles, so he's going to be out obviously for at least a year, and we'll see how he comes back. But you know, when you look at the situation in Boston, new ownership group, second Apron team, awesome but really expensive, and now the Tatum injury, there's a chance that some of those Celtics could be available as well. Now San Antonio is very interesting too because they have Daron Fox and everyone loves Dylan Harper.
But of course tremendous redundancy to have those two on the same roster with a ball dominant type, you know, a redundant field because the two of them are somewhat similar. So you got San Antonio. Oklahoma City has to be brought up because they have a compendium of assets and a bunch of really good young players. The problem with will the Jazz get involved in any of these transactions is, yes, they have the capital, but other teams have similar you know, trade capital in their back pocket.
But what the other teams have that the Jazz don't. Is okay.
See can be like, hey, we'll give you five picks Jalen Williams and Chet and whatever for Giannis, and the Jazz don't have that package. They don't have the package San Antonio does. They don't have the package Houston does. So yes, they have the draft capital. But you know, what does lowry marketing really do for you? And I guess that you know, beauty is in the eye of
the boulder. Is there any chance the Jazz have what it takes to get bold and try to get involved with some of these acquisitions to get better players here, or maybe even move up in the draft.
What do you think?
I mean, I think you can move up to three in the draft realistically, if you really want to, if that's meaningful to you, I think there is that opportunity. I don't think really number two or number one is realistic. I think that if you wanted to, I think Giannis
is out of the picture. For the reasons you describe, you just are going to be beat by significantly better teams with significantly better players to trade to Milwaukee that are more intriguing, and all the draft assets you can want, you know, whether that's from Houston or o Floma City or San Antonio. Like, teams just can make a better package. Where I do think that Jazz could if they wanted to get into it is on kind of that next tier of star. So do you want to take on
Zion Williamson and his issues? Do you want to take on John Morant in his issues? Do you want to take on Trey Young in his issues? Yeah? I think you can have those conversations if the Celtics decide to turn it around quickly or just decide they're paying Jalen Brown too much money. Is that an option? I can see a world in which it is, and you know, I don't think he is going to demand a Giannis
level of return. I think there are a few situations around the league, like if you really wanted to, you could trade for Kevin Durant, Like now, do the Jazz want to? I don't think that that makes a lot of sense given Kevin Durant's age, But it is an option. So you're just not going to get the perfect superstar out there like a Ganis, who is like clearly a top five player in the world, clearly in his prime Uh.
And you know, because you're right that the other teams have more to offer that's not draft capital, that the Jazz just can't match with the Keyante Georges of the world.
Oh dear well, Andy, before I set you loose, uh, just best guess and I'll just tell you my take on this. I think next year is going to feel a lot like this year. Uh, you know, call it tanking, call it whatever you want. And I've been a proponent of this because I just don't see any other avenue to, you know, for the Jazz to acquire the type of talent they need in order to establish a cornerstone franchise, changing peace, to change your trajectory what the future could
look like. I still believe their best chance is to do this in the lottery. And I still believe their best chance is to lose and have the best chance possible of getting one of those picks. I know today is the most unpopular data say that, I don't know what else they do. So before I set you loose, my guess is next year looks and feels a lot like this year for the Jazz.
What do you think?
Yeah, I kind of agree, And I mean the thing about the lottery being when it is is that you have a month and a week between now and the actual NBA draft. I guess six weeks to make decisions and to slow down and not react emotionally to what
happened yesterday. And you know, I think there is an absolute temptation today that, hey, you should change what to you know, what the plan is, right, like, change the process, try to be competitive and go in the Atlanta and Chicago route, which, hey, you know will make games more
interesting next year and be a lot more fun. What I suspect is that the Jazz do the calculations and do the mass and decide for the same reasons they decided this year that tanking is probably the best option next year, given who's a vail in the lottery, and given that in order to keep their Oklaumas that he picked in the Derek Favors trade, they need to be
one of the eight worst teams in the NBA. So I suspect, ultimately you're right, they just stay with the status quo, even though it feels like such a dumb thing to do.
Right now, Yeah, today's the most unpopular day to talk about it.
But you know, I think that's the reality.
All right, my guy, Well, save travels and we'll get you back on again soon.
Thanks Andy.
All right, sounds good, Thanks Ben.
Andy Larson covers the Utah Jazz for the Salt Lake Tribune Live on the ground in Chicago. The NBA Draft Combine is going on right now, obviously, the day after the NBA Draft Lottery, which turned out to be just a brutal gut punch for jazz fans. And we'll get back to some of this coming up in a bit. But on the other side, we'll do some college football.
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