NBA Playoff basketball continues tonight. It has been an insanely entertaining start to this spring tournament that, for the third straight year, we don't experience here in Salt Lake City. We are about twenty three minutes away from tip at TD Garden, where the Knicks will try to take a two zero lead on the Celtics, and then the late game seven thirty on Turner as the Nuggets and the Thunder. Our next guest covers the Jazz NBA other things for
the Salt Lake Tribuny is Andy Larson. On a Wednesday afternoon, Happy belated Cinco Day, Mile, my friend, how are we doing?
Happy as well? I'm doing good? How about you?
I gotta tell I gotta tell the story for our listeners, So just to give you context, I have a lot of excuses from people who I enjoy playing golf with as to why they cannot join me, so I'm used to it. But Andy Larson used the most unique and quite frankly silly excuse that I've ever heard my entire life when I texted Andy like, hey, can you golf on Thursday? And his response was it is Sinco, which caught me off guard.
Andy I gotta.
Say, so, what the full story was. You were trying to set up like a Saturday morning golf and I think it was Friday night a couple of years back to sink of Mile late on, and so I thought like, hey man, I'm going to be out on the town on this particular day. I don't know that I want to get up early for the golf, and you know, given what celebrations might occur on a Sinko.
To Miyo, only caveat is I know it wasn't Saturday. I think it was Thursday, because I was surprised that you were going to get that loose on a Wednesday, even though it was sinco d.
That might be true too. Yeah, that's honestly extremely possible.
All good, All good, my friend.
All right, we got some unexpected news this week about our local basketball team. Will Hardy's contract was not set to expire because he had two years left after having both options picked up for year four and year five. But now the contract goes through twenty thirty one. And you give me your thoughts.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of clarifies a lot of the things that we've talked about the last year, right, like, I think Will Hardy's really well respected around the league, and kind of the question was is does he want to stay in Utah or does he want to go somewhere where he could win more? And then you know, if from a Jazz point of view, is was it? You know, are they going to stick with Will Hardy
for as long as this rebuild takes too? You know, Cole left into hopefully a contending team, And I think the answer is now definitely yes on both cases. I mean to have six fully six more years of Will Hardy under contract. That's a long coaching deal. That's as long as it gets for kind of the non established coach. That's it is nearly unprecedented to have a coach as
young as Will have a contract like that. So it kind of reflects it definitely reflects the belief that the front office has in him that he is the right coach to coach the Jazz not only through a rebuild, but through a contending era as well. And then you know, it reflects the desire of Will Hardy to kind of settle down in Utah, to set roots here and make this his home and his competitive situation for the foreseeable future.
So a couple of interesting things.
You know, Greg Popovich of course has stepped down as the coach of the San Antonio Spurs, and.
After coach pop had initially left.
The Spurs, there were more than a few people that wondered aloud if San Antonio would try to contact Utah about making Will the next head coach in San Antonio. Ironically enough, Andy, a few years back, Tim McMahon on this show surmised that Quinn Snyder might leave the Jazz at the end of his deal to take over after coach pop was done as well. So that was kind of out there. And you asked Will a question postseason media.
I'll paraphrase, if a team that is ready to win comes Colin, are you interested?
And he said, I'm all in.
I wonder what you think the motivation was for both these sides to get this done right now, because to your point, stuff like this doesn't happen very often.
Yeah, you know, I think it was the speculation a little bit. And look, I will be honest, you know, I asked the question from a speculative point of view because I you know, I didn't know what would happen, and by I just do know that winning seventeen games in an eighty two game season is is really tough
on coaches. And I know how well how highly regarded Will Hardy is around the league that there might have been some good teams kind of knocking on that door, you know, whether that's like, you know, you could go to Phoenix and coach Kevin Durant and Devin Booker maybe, or you know, I think they're gonna be in Denver
and Nikola Jokic. Like there there are a number of situations around the league that maybe makes sense for a coach that had his eyes elsewhere, And so I wanted to know if Will had his eyes elsewhere, and you know, I think trail to Woll clear that he did not.
You know, I think obviously the San Antonio situation also would have made sense for him because of you know, that organization with with Victor wembin Yama, with Popovich and his relationships there, and then you know the fact that his family is there too, right, Like I think that's important.
So yeah, look, it's you know, I think it does say a lot that Will decided kind of against those things and the stability and security and the situation that he has here and overall a belief in the jazz's long term plan, even though you know the winds are not there right now.
Do you know how this process started? Do you know if the jazz contacted Will and said let's talk. Do you know if Will's agents or representatives contact with Jazz and said let's figure something out.
Do you know how this all went down?
I don't. I asked Well that question on a day planned the contract, and he kind of slid past that question a little bit and just said, you know, it's something largely the negotiations, as you know, as I put him like, uh, went through his agent rather than through him. So but I don't know, you know how long ago these contracts, you know, talks started and I I don't know kind of who initiated it? No, I asked him. Didn't get an answer.
All right, So I want to be very clear.
In a profession with very little security, in a profession where essentially more often than not you are hired to be fired, in a profession where Michael Malone and Taylor Jenkins lost their job, this is something that if you're Will Hardy, you sign and you say thank you, and you take the nine year runway.
If he coaches through the rest of his contract.
However, there is there's a risk involved here, Andy, There's a risk that Will Hardy has trusted a process that so far has not manifested itself into a position where he has good players to take into a gym. Now, it's very early on, but what do you make of that kind of portion of this? Where to your point and why you asked him the question, there are plenty of organizations that would be interested in Will, and organizations that probably have better players where he has a chance
to win right away. He is taking a risk trusting a process that's so far has been mixed.
To be kind, what are your thoughts on it?
Yeah, Look, you know, I think what he says, and I think he believes, and frankly, I think you can make a good case for is that the way to win in the NBA is right now through developing players in the draft. And you know, you look around the teams that have tried to go after the you know, expensive free agent route, and they have not done very
well in recent seasons. The teams that have done well are the thunder who built it all through the draft and you know, one key trade and teams like the Dever Nuggets, who you know, want a championship around Nikola Jokis and Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Junior and guys that they drafted. I think there is this thought, you know, that you can get essentially that this is the way to build an actually championship contending team again Boston with
Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown. He's obviously very familiar with that situation. So I think he thinks that that is that kind of the path that the Jazz are on is the right path. Now, you know, you and I
and he both we all know that. Like, the Jazz have a fourteen percent chance at Cooper Flag coming up in the in the lottery next week, right, Like, so the odds are not high, but this is the way that you can build an actual contender rather than just kind of a you know, an ephemeral one one, that one that doesn't last for very long because you are kind of relying on older guys. Clearly, the Jazz won't be there. Now, you know, a lot has to go right, so much has to go right. They odd have to
be in your favor. But like I think the NBA as currently constructed with the second Apron and everything else is a draft and develop league, and that's the path of the Jazz are on.
All Right, It's tough to ask you about what the Jazz offseason is going to look like because we're all waiting for Monday to see where they will draft. So we did have the Utah Hockey Club land on some lady luck in year one in a way that it's never landed on the Jazz in fifty years. So take us through the exercise, you know, contingent upon what Monday brings us. What generally speaking, as you're understanding about how the Jazz you're going to approach this offseason, Yeah, I mean.
Stay the course, right like kind of either way it is. It's I don't expect them to like all of a sudden ramp up next to either Cooper Flag or Tree Johnson, you know, whoever they get at number one or number five. This is going to be a long development process, right Like, they also hope to get someone good at the end of the first round. They hope to get you know, they hope to make some changes with the veterans, you know, I think finding new homes for John Collins Short and
Clarkson Collin sects, and that all makes sense. It's just kind of whether or not teams other teams are interested in trading for those guys. And you know, I also don't think that the Jazz are interested in like giving up picks or anything like that dump those salaries, because you know, why would you given that you're not trying
to do anything in the next year anyway. Yeah, look, I mean I think there's like a there's a path maybe that hey, you get Cooper Flag and then you're feeling good with that front court and then there's a guard that unexpectedly, you know, becomes available and you can go out and get that guy. But let's be you know, the Jazz aren't trading for Giannis. They would get beat by several other teams in that negotiation, and then ultimately Gianness would not choose to resign in Utah because they're
probably not going to win that many games. It's just like it's gonna be another year of kind of build from within and and you know, I ultimately like the lottery pick will determine how kind of exciting the youth is. But I don't expect the Jazz to kind of go for it this year because you know there's another excellent
draft next year. They hope get a top three pick in and they hope to retain the Oklahoma City pick by being one of the worst eight teams in the league, so they don't have to give it to their future Western Conference title contender enemy. You know, if you will your rival. So yeah, look, I don't see the tides all of a sudden turning in the Jazz going for winning next year.
Okay, any outside shot. I understand the way you answer the question. I understand the context, but should some sort of because there will be plenty of teams that are looking to jettison talent and maybe some players to your point, Ayiannis who looks to get out any I mean, we know how this organization has thought in the past, being audacious enough to say we are going to sign Paul George and trade for mckel bridges and things like big game hunting for Jazz fans that are chomping at the
bit watching playoff basketball for the third straight You're not having that here. Any shot at all that potentially a big name is brought in, I mean a little bit of.
A shot, but don't buy season tickets because of it,
you know, don't get your hopes up because of it. Right, Like in the end, the players that we're talking about on the market for the most part are older and don't make sense for them to re sign with the Jazz long term, or or I think ultimately wouldn't want to be in Utah because where the Jazz are competitively, I mean think about it, Like the way you think about the Washington Wizards is the way other teams think about the Utah Jazz right now, and other players think
about the Utah Jazz right now. So like if you are Yannis and the Washington Wizards get Cooper Flag, do you still want to go to Washington to go play with Cooper Flag? Or you kind of think to yourself, Oh no, that's really kind of not enough for me to win an NBA championship again, Like I want to know he's going to be thinking about playing with the
other better teams in the league. He's gonna be thinking about the Houston Rockets, are they Oklahoma City Thunder or what do the Calves look like if they had you know,
like stuff like that. Right, Like the it's just unrealistic in the way today's NBA works, where you have to essentially get a player on board, and you have to get an agent on board, and you have to get the other team on board for you to use all of those bass assets of Jazz have accumulated to all of a sudden go from zero to contention, right Like, we just don't see that. We see up and coming teams trade for players like Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert
like the Cleveland Cavaliers in Minnesota Timberwolves did. We don't see teams go from nothing to having to trading for legit, top tier talent and becoming true contenders overnight. It's just not how the NBA is working right now as it's currently set up.
So you and I have spoken about this in the past, but because it's topical based on what we're seeing in the NBA playoffs, and I'm going to bring it back around in case our listeners have not heard the conversation from your prison before, because you're as uniquely qualified to discuss this as anybody out there, quite frankly, and since we are seen Rudy Gobert with a historic twenty twenty game against the Lakers to eliminate them, Donovan nearly dropped half
one hundred last night, albeit in a losing effort. Since we're seeing a litany of former Jazz players play well in the postseason, is there ever any part of you that looks at what's happening and questions the decision of this new front office to break that team down brick by brick or was it just simply their only option?
I you know, I think it's fair to reevaluate that as the picks have gotten have decreased in value, and as you know, their own rebuild has taken three years instead of one. Right like, the Jazz thought that they were going to be in the running for victed Remba Yama and instead were kind of played it in the middle for two years that ended up being relatively wasted. That being said, Donovan Mitchell was just extremely unhappy in Utah, and I do not think that he would have resigned.
I understand that publicly he has said that he wanted to stay in Utah. I do not believe it for a second. I do not, you know, Frankly, I have talked to too many people behind the scenes. I have heard too many people who are close with Donovan talk about this. I do not believe that he would have stayed in Utah, and then it's like, Okay, well, then do you really want to keep the Rudy Gobert contract
moving forward? Probably not. Maybe there's a world in which, like, hey, maybe you run it back one more year with a new head coach and see what happened. But ultimately, like that's kind of the same process that the Phoenix Suns tried with Mike Buttonholzer. Just now, you know, replacing Frank Vogel with Bud and now their situation looks even worse, and now you know their assets aren't credable anymore. Right, So, uh look, I don't think I still think it's probably
the right move. I think more of my criticism goes to happened in the last two years, where they played out in the middle, getting the ninth and tenth pick and ultimately not plishing the franchise in either direction in those years looks like a mistake.
Right now, you think, Okay, see is in trouble. Last time you and I spoke, we felt, I mean, I felt like we were on the same page. And you know, I'm just INDI I'm always hesitant to simply anoint a team that has not had a deep playoff run together. And I am fine when I'm proven wrong, because ultimately sometimes teams do rise up, but more often than not it's right of passage. They swept the Pelicans last year,
they lost to the MAVs in six. It's just a different game, man, come playoff time jumps opposed to regular season basketball. And I was just wildly impressed watching the Denver Nuggets. I know it's cliche, and I know it's not something we can use analytics for, but it was championship medal.
It was effort to the end.
It was not giving up, it was staying in the thing, and then a great final play. What you know, Westbrook finds Aaron Gordon knocks down that game winner. Man, if they don't get it done tonight, it's gonna be interesting to hear the conversation. Do you think, okayc he's got something to worry about.
I mean a little bit worried about, certainly. And I think, like you know, they need to play better. I think they need to make some rotation changes, you know, like playing hard and stein more. Probably I think the chet hol grin that is probably less important against December team, and then then needs to coach better. Frankly, like they can't foul up three as early in the game as
they did against the Nuggets in Game one. You know, and this is a guy who is last season's NBA Coach of the Year, and I it's really highly regarded and I think it's a very good coach. But I think there are some you know, this is where you need to make Mono Imano kind of matchup changes in kind of a Ti Lou sort of way. And that's a different kind of playoff coaching is very different than regular season coaching, and and you know, we need to
see kind of the best efforts from from Danol. I think ultimately, I'm still picking the Thunder in the series. I'm still picking the Thunder to make it even to the Western Conference Finals. But yeah, you know, like it was, you know, a questionable performance and the Nuggets stole one that they probably shouldn't have. I think there are questions about like whether Shay's and Jalen's offense works as well in playoff basketball as it does in regular season basketball.
That all being said, they still I think are the best defense in the league, I think by a significant amount. I do still think like the Nuggets have significant depth issues that like if Michael Porter junior cell phone goes gets it all worse, or if one of their players goes down or something happens like that, then they're in really deep trouble. You still need good games from Jokich and Jamal Murray I think to win games in this series.
And you know, I still think eventually Oklahoma City, besides Jokic is out talents the Nuggets. So yeah, anyway, we'll see what happens. And I do think all four teams with home court advantage need to be worried right now, given they're down in the series. The Thunder might be the one team because of what they did in the regular season and because of their talent, because of the defensive strengths that I'm least worried about among those teams so far.
Who did you vote for?
And maybe you sent this out because I know you're a voter, because where I'm at is, Jokic is still the best player in the world.
But I do think Shay's the MVP. What's your take?
I voted Yoga's MVP. I honestly lost left on it though, Dude, Like I I just think Shay's season was awesome. He was obviously the best player on the best team, even ignoring that contact like he was clearly at least the second best player in the league. It's so close. Jokic's having his best ever season and Yokic shooting forty five percent from three, and then Jokic making his teammates better I think at a higher level than Shaye does. Probably
made a difference for me. But like you know, resuscitated Russell Westbrook's career. Christan Brown had an incredible year this year despite not having much of a bag. Aaron Gordon revitalizing his career offensively just through like cuts and the space that Jokic provides. It's it's all awesome. So I voted Jokic. I it's an impossible choice. I you know, Shay's NBT makes sense to me too, it is what
it is. But yeah, I couldn't not vote for Yoki's base on just the individual season he had all right.
Away from Hoop for a moment, just to get some thoughts on some things happening around town.
Well end with little RSL, but we.
Do know the permanent name of the hockey team that plays in our market. The Utah Hockey Club is no more, and they shall henceforth and forever be known as the Utah Mammoth.
Andy. What's the take.
Yeah, you know, it was the best name I thought of the three. It's the The logo is really good. I think Ben Barnes over there is does a tremendous job when they they asked him to make the logos like he you know, is asked to create logos of other teams nationally and he's on the Utah Jazz and I guess the SEG payroll right like it is. It's kind of awesome that one of the best logo designers in the world works here and is from here in Utah.
I think, uh, kind of the secondary logos looked well, you know, I thought the jerseys were maybe I was expecting maybe a little more of a change up rather than just you know, putting the Mammoth logo right over where it said Utah before on on the jerseys. But hey, you know, it's I I think it's a good look. I think it's totally professional. It looks like the national
response was pretty positive as well. I didn't think like the fan vote profit best was handled amazingly well, but and obviously they leaked the name early, so today's announcement wasn't a surprise or anything. But yeah, you know, it was a relatively good seven or eight out of ten outcome.
All right, final thing, RSL goes to Vancouver, gets the yell. Vancouver randomly is like awesome, which I didn't know about. But they smoked Miami in the League's Cup or whatever the hell that was, and they're a top of the table in the West. I don't know, man, It's tough. Johnny Russell is now hurt. He's not playing this weekend. We saw Agada for a moment. Just where's where's your confidence level in RSL before I set you loose?
Yeah, I mean not. I look, Vancouver's a really good team, and I didn't think Artell played poorly against the Vancouver line up with pretty heavily rotated. They weren't playing some of their best dudes, at least from the starting whistle. Because of their matchup against Miami and the Champions League and that they won that is awesome. And they do play some really really good soccer. I think we saw some of that in that matchup. It is my goal
one day RSL can beat Miami too. Right like that, we do not just consider RSL's goals to be to make the playoffs, but indeed to contend for champions leagues, then to contend for the top of the Western Conference, and to contend for MLS Cups. And you know, when you're signing thirty five year old Johnny Russell as your free agent and trading five hundred thousand dollars for Willie Gatta as your starting striker, those are low ambition moves.
So until you know, while Diego Luna and Omechaanelly and I think a number of Raphael's cabral a number of RFL players are very good, some of the best among their positions in MLS, the team will continue to be kind of mid. You know. Right now they are eleventh in the Western Conference, you know, and well out of the playoffs. They will continue to be pretty mid until they have good players all around the pitch and until ownership and management steps up to buy the best players possible.
Now they no longer can do that because the transfer windows closed, and so we have to wait until the summer transfer window, which ends with eight games left to go on the season. So you know, as far as I'm feeling about this season, I'm pretty pessimistic. I think they're a Mids team. My hope is that the Millers will invest in it to the degree necessary for them to become contenders, not just also ran playoff teams. I will be watching that carefully and closely.
All Right, fair enough, Andy, thanks for the Tom Buddy, have a good week and we'll chat soon.
Sounds good, Thanks Ben.
Andy Larson covers the Jazz and the NBA for the Trip and rights a data column for them as well. Get him on social media at Andy B. Larson is where you find him