Andy Larson, Salt Lake Tribune. Andy, Happy Wednesday. How are we doing?
I'm good man, how are you good?
Give me a bucket list destination geographically somewhere in the world that you've never been to that you'd like to visit.
I sew them into Italy and I need to do that. And then, like I've been trying to figure out like where and how to do a Japan or Korea or something like that trip given the language barrier, Like I don't know if it's a tour guide situation or what, but probably Italy is my number? Want to answerself?
Can highly recommend Tokyo. I've decided my next stop is going to be Australia. I've never been to Australia?
Have you been?
I have? In twenty nineteen, right before the world set down, I did as a home around the World tour, which was awesome. Spent two weeks there, bounced around different cities, went to the Great Barrier reefs. It was truly awesome. You won't Yeah, you need to go as through as again.
What's your favorite? What's your favor?
I was I was munching on some pistachios earlier. I feel like pistachios has to be high on anyone's list.
That's a good question. I've been feeling like Cashew's right right recently, is really really good nice, So I'll go with that.
Where do you get your frid Rise? Andy?
So?
I used to get it from this place called my Tie on thirteenth and third West, but it just closed about a month ago, So I'm kind of on the lookout for new spots. You know, that place was right by the jazz practice facility, so it's perfect, you know, after practice, go and get some Frida Rice and it was awesome. And they the owner retired after seventeen years just you know, she was time. And so yeah, I gotta say, I'm certain if you have any good ideas, let me know.
Watching any TV shows these days?
Andy, Oh, I don't think so. I'm watching the sports. I'm sorry, it's it's important sports sent dating anyone.
No? Oh, all right, movie.
A little bit.
Oh yeah, you gotta be careful, you gotta be careful, Andy. All right, we can move on. I mean, kind of a weird mood on a Wednesday. Several reasons why, but let's move on.
All right.
Let me ask you this, did you catch wind of this Austin Ange situation. Did you know this was in the pipeline or did it catch you off guard the way that it seems to have got everybody off guard?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it caught me off guard. I did not know. I knew that there were changes in the front office, and I knew that, and we've reported some of them, right like the Carlos Boozer thing. There are a couple of other Jazz staffers who are no longer going to be with the team moving forward, And now in the wake of Austin Ange being hired, it's
looking like maybe there could be more changes. I truly, you know, I don't want to say anything without having that confirmed for multiple sources, because obviously this is people's livelihoods. But I knew that there were changes being made. I thought they were happening at lower levels, right like I thought.
Essentially the team was upset with kind of their scouting and player player development, not player development player scouting setup, so that you know, they made some I think some kind of weird draft choices of the last couple of years. They haven't really identified that star and so just talent recognition I think was kind of lacking since Dennis Lindsay was let go, and so I do think there was room to hire someone. But I'm surprised that it was
at the president of basketball operations level. I'm surprised Austin Angel is the number one guy. And yeah, I had no idea that it was going to be often moving moving over here?
What other changes? And I may have missed something.
So for our listeners, Carlos Boozer has been added to the staff as a scout. And I know you said you did not want to pontificate on possibilities, and I respect that because people's jobs are important to them. But what other changes are you alluding to that I may have missed changes.
So again, I'm trying to not use names here and until it's announced, until they find new jobs and stuff like that. But yeah, it seems like in the fourth or fifth level of the organization, maybe names that aren't familiar to fans, but are names more familiar to JEVB writers and you know, obviously people my people in the day to day workings of the of the organ All.
Right, ten ten four, how do you think I have?
I asked a couple of guests this, and I'll preface it with you the same way I have with them. There are thirty NBA general manager jobs, and if you have one, you are very happy to have one despite these circumstances around you. And Justin Xanik is coming off a very trying year where he had some serious health complications, and you know, I've seen him a couple of times since and seeing him interviewed since, seems like he's doing well. So I'm not implying anything at all with the question,
nor am I leading the witness. I am wondering what you believe to be jay Z's reaction to kind of the changes around him in his place in this new ecosystem.
Look publicly and privately from all all reports that I've heard about this, I haven't talked to j V about it, but like is that he is taking this positively right like he is, you know, saying all the right things. He is, you know, saying, hey, look, you know that Austin will be added it to our department, and you know what's best for the Jazz is what's best for me, and all that kind of good stuff. I also know how general managers think, and I know how executives think,
and I know how does people think? And the truth is, if you were general manager of a team, you if they go to somebody else to hire the president of basketball operations, and not only just another teams general manager, but another team's assistant general manager, a person lower on the totem pold than you are, then you probably don't feel right about it. And it is probably the kind of thing that makes you want to look around. Now.
Look like Justin has a contract, and you know, I think is well respected and I think does have a lot to add to this organization. But I did think it was interesting that Ryan Smith made it extremely clear who was in charge when he did not do that
in the Danny Aingecrest conference. And I think it was interesting that he drew such a dividing line between Austening of skills and Justin venex skills, where you know, he said, hey, look, Justin's you know, came up through the agency space and as good at that, is good at dealing with players and that sort of thing, Whereas they feel that Austen
came up through the scouting and coaching. It has that experience and so we'll be able to add kind of those again, player evaluation and talent and scout talent scouting to the organization, and kind of the implicit statement there is they don't feel like Justin has done a great job of that. Now, look, you know, Justin hasn't been totally in charge over the last three years. It's in
Danny Ainge too, and mostly Danny Inge. There was a period of time where Justin was the number one guy after they fired Dennis Lindsay and you ended up with the Rudy Gay summer, right, So it wasn't like a unadulterated success. But I do think, you know, Justin sent some good things as well and made them smart moves. I think fIF year's trade deadline, frankly, was really well handled.
And so you want that kind of guy around. It's just whether or not he wants to be around, and I think that's, you know, still kind of an open question. If he can get another better job from another NBA team, it wouldn't be super surprising to see him take it so andy.
As a nineteen year old, between my freshman and sophomore year at the University of Utai, did an internship at Madison Square Garden where I had a connection loosely and my internship that summer was in the customer relations department, where my job was to answer phone calls from angry New Yorkers that didn't enjoy Billy Joel the night before or whatever.
It was very interesting, and I.
Worked in the department of people and a lot of them were almost nervous to me around and didn't really like to talk to me very much. I've really had one friend. His name was Dave Snowden. Ironically enough, he's still there. He founded the Wheelchair Next and he's the sweetest guy. And went to dinner one night and I'm like, dude, why don't these people just feel like they can I'm a normal person.
You can come talk to me and I'll talk to you.
And he'd laid a line on me at the age of nineteen that I still talk about and think about to this day. And he said, Spence, it's important that at this point in your life you understand one very simple truth, and that is nobody cheers for the son of a famous father.
So thank you. Okay, there you go.
So we move into this space where I feel like it's easy to have a conversation where two things can be true. That Austin benefited greatly from his last name and who his father was, and Austin has put in the groundwork and as the resume to qualify himself for a hire such as this, is that fair to say, yeah, look, I think so.
I I think, you know, if you look at another team and they higher off names, it's a little bit of a stretch because he's an assistant GM, not a GM, right, like, but given the Celtics success over the last decade, like, it does make sense, right And so that's the thing that the Jazz can stand on on this is that look like, hey, it's you know, he does have he is well respected, he does have a ton of success, and it's hard to know, you know exactly, you know,
who drafted Jason Tatum instead of Markel Foltz, and who drafted Jalen Brown and who you know, But like clearly Austin was at least a round during those times and helped make good choices. So you know, it's hard to say, like, hey, this is a catastrophe, but I do think, you know, like this is kind of a nepotism thing, is you know, maybe it prevents you from opening up the job to
other names. And I think that's where I think you can have some real criticism for the Jazz is like, if you are trying to compete in a third team MBA, you want to know as much about your competition as possible, and one of the easiest ways to do that is by having a round of significant and serious interviews for a president of basketball operations slot right, Like, learn how these guys think, learn what they would do with your roster, get some free consulting, frankly right, and for them to
kind of have bypassed that in order to hire you know, the son of the CEO and the guy who's friends with the owner. Like, look, it is, it's sketchy, it's it's not great. It's a really bad look. And I think the rest of the NBA was talking all about it this week. So I think that's where I think you can have significant criticism. Is like, look, if you do it in an overall search of the whole market
and say, hey, Austin Ange is the best guy. Cool, but you should really have again, serious and significant interviews with other candidates in order to make that in order to make that determination. Rather than well, Danny thinks often Ange is great. Ryan Smith, the Austin Ange is great. Will Hardy says, Austin Ange is great. It's like, well, you know, yes, for sure, Like I think the reality
is probably the autome age is great. And yet also there are a gazillion other very smart men and women I guess covering and leading NBA franchises right now that you also could have talked to for this role and chose not to. And I think that's the disappointing part of it. I think from a jazz perspective, did.
It feel like to you?
And I guess i'll use a gen z saying, as the kids would say, doing too much or extra or whatever? Did it feel like to you in the statements that were released and the comments mainly by Ryan that they just overcooked the qualifications that Austin has, that they just overcooked the whole like without really saying the quiet part out loud, like Danny wasn't even quoted and it was
never even acknowledging any of the statements. Did it feel like to you that they were making a little bit too much of an effort, being a little extra when it came to just pointing out all of the things Austin has done in the statements, and were you surprised that Danny was not quoted nor was he available at the media availability.
No, And I mean I guess I don't think they're doing like you kind of have to if you're if you are the Pierre Department of the Jazz and you're put in this position, right, like, that's the thing you have to do. You have to say, hey, you know, this is Danny Ings hiring his son. It's like, look at all the things off and names of son. You have to give the fans the reason to believe, because if you do that, the fans are gonna believe because
they're fans. I did. I was skeptical at the idea that Ryan just told Danny called Danny up one Dan said, hey, I want to hire your son to be president of basketball operations, right. You know, I think Ryan and Danny talk more often than that for it to have just been like, hey, got some bad or weird news that I'm hiring your kids, you know, Like I I just
am skeptical that that's how that went down. But yeah, look, I mean, if you are if you're trying to spin as any if you are at all professional, you're trying to spin it at least a little bit, and the only way to spend it is by saying that Austin is qualified, you know, but you know in terms of he is going to be a relatively young general manager or I guess relatively young professional president of basketball operations.
And you know, like, while he does have fourteen years of experience in the Boston Celtics organization or whatever it is, seventeen like, you know, it's not all that has been as assistant general manager. It's also been at like the scouting level and stuff like that. Right, So again, it's a reasonable resume and a relatively good one, especially given how good the Celtics has been. But that's what you
had to do. If you're the Jazz. You can't just say, well, there's a Danny Agis kid and and try to spin it that way.
Skeptical that Ryan didn't talk to There's no shot in hell are you kidding? That was the most insulting part of the entire scenario. Hey, Danny's been completely kept out of you. He had no idea I was doing this. I just told him, like, dude, like, what do you mean, Andy, There's no chance that was the case.
Almost insulting that that was said out loud.
Yeah. Look, I mean Ryan likes to tell a yarn that's probably not super based in reality. Sometimes he's done it at press conferences before. I mean, even Katz the copyed like the old Greg Miller gas station story, right, like I am, you know that's that's Ryan Smith.
Yes it is, Yes it is, And you know, I guess if it's working for you, just keep rolling with it.
But yeah, there's no shot.
But when it comes to the Danny angle here, I've always been skeptical personally of really just how for lack of a better term, invested in the day to day process that Danny is with the entire thing. Now, I want to be very fair, Danny retired when he left the Celtics. He retired. He he didn't move out here to work for the Jazz. Okay, that wasn't the reason he moved to Utah. He moved to Utah to be around his family. And I've never believed Now, look, he's at the games. I see him at games, I see
him at events. I'm not saying he's never there. But you reference kind of the original ambiguity when Danny was hired and the messaging from Jazz ownership about like I've always drawn the parallel between the Jim Halpert, Michael Scott off the stuff big picture of day to day and was.
Kind of like who's doing what all right?
And this kind of get you know, does this to you indicate that Danny might even be a little bit further removed in valuing his riverside tee times and hanging out with his grandkids. Now that Austin is in place and will be in place for a while, do you think Danny's gonna be even a little bit further removed from the scenario.
I'll say this, like over the last couple of years, if Danny was truly removed, like he was way more involved than I thought he would be from that press conference right like he was at random star game that I was at that you know, the league College City Stars,
but he had no reason to be at whatsoever? Right Like you can successfully delegate the tenth man role on the Salege City Stars and feel pretty good about it if you're Danny Inge and he didn't, like he was involved in that kind of weird stuff like and so and was involved like was that morning shoot around again for games that did not matter? And just was was around again more than it did scouting trips to the
middle of the country on the for players. You wouldn't think that Danny ainge if he were truly you know, like just doing the golf tea time thing that he would have been involved in. I think he was. That being said, I also had that same thought that you did, like that, hey, maybe this is a way to get Danny to where he wants to be, where he feels comfortable, uh, golfing more and being with his grandkids more and all
that kind of stuff. I could absolutely see. Hey, that's why the jazz decided to add another, uh, the louder voice of the room. And of course you can get Danny on board by making it Austin. So you know, I think that it's very plausible that that's what happened. But we'll see over the next course a couple of years, you know, Like I was surprised at how involved he was before, now it could be surprised again.
All right, in the spirit of listening to what these people say and then trying to understand what actually is real, Let's move over to the response that Austin gave to the question that our very own Sean o'cotta asked about his personal philosophy on tanking and manipulating lineups, to which Austin responded, you will not see that this year. Austin went on our guy John Paul's podcast, I would encourage people to go check out Roundball Roundup and expanded on the answer.
So, look, Andy, we know the deal here.
It's a top eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City, who most likely is about to win a world championship, and then over the next week or so, and I would view it as an epic failure if that pick had to be conveyed to Oka. See if the Jazz win thirty four to thirty five games and end up drafting ninth in the lottery and that goes to Oklahoma City. I view holding on to that asset as important as
anything else this year. So if we take Austin at his word that they will approach this season with more integrity than they did in years past and be front facing about injuries and availability and not wait to get fined and then have Walker shoot seven threes a game and we actually see a serious basketball team this year? Can they do that while also maintaining the spot they need to maintain to hold onto their draft capital.
It becomes really really hard even if you trade the veterans, like that's that's the tricky spot for me. So like you know, you can trade lowerry marketing, You could probably trade polmssts, and you can probably trade down Collins. I don't think you can trade Jordan Clarkson unless it's packaged in a deal where you're giving up value. I don't think they're going to get a lot for those guys, but I think you can and move them if you'd like.
But how whoever you get back is at least going to have salaries and at least it's going to be on the roster, and you know, like you'll have to play those guys too. You can't get you know what's got a combined eighty million dollars in money off your books without taking some veteran contract back. Who then yes, under kind of the oft names we won't tank rule that you would have to play. And if you look at the bottom eight of last year's draft pree lottery,
all of those teams tanked to some degree. None were as you know extreme as the Jazz, but like Washington definitely thanks at the end of the year. New Orleans did. Brooklyn tanks from the beginning of the year, trading Dennis Ruder a year in a month into the season. You know, let's see Philadelphia definitely thanks at the end of the year. The Spurs even tanked once Webb Yama got hurt. Like everyone actually was tanking by the end of the year.
So I find it difficult to imagine that the jazz I don't have to do that to some degree in March and April in order to stay quote unquote competitive or really anti competitive. Right, Like, there's a real chance that if they try their hardest in all eighty two games next year, that they end up with, yeah, that ninth pick, and then you you just give it away to the Oklahoma City Thunder. So I think you have
to be really careful about how that plays out. And you know, and then if you do keep one of Lowery or Collin Sexton or John Collins, then all of a sudden you add more wins and get even closer to that line. So it's a really fine line that they're kind of drought to get. And I think ultimately what's gonna end up happening is you say, hey, no, we're not going to tank it all this year, and then you know, you end up just tanking in March April, or maybe somebody gets hurt and you get a little
bit lucky that way. But from what I hear, it is much more likely that the Jazz are bad next year and kind of embrace that from just a player talent point of view, than that they, you know, like try to be good and trade for three stars or something like that.
So the Washington model is something that I've been considering over the past twenty four or forty eight hours or whatever, because Washington actually did try. But what they did Billel Coolibali bub Carrington and Jordan Poole just a perfect vet to tank on your roster. They traded cous they played Alex Sar, they played Kaishawan George, they played Corey Kisbert. So what Washington did is, yeah, technically they traded for Middleton, but he didn't really play much for them, neither did
Malcolm Brogden, and they moved on from Kuzma. And again, Pools the type of vet you want on your team if you're trying to lose, because he doesn't necessarily play winning basketball when he's a main COG. So they essentially
played all young guys and Jordan Poole. So is there a world where the Jazz jettison Lowry and maybe even Walker and Collins and Sexton or whoever they can, and they add the two first rounders this year and maybe even the two second rounders to the group of young players, and we see something like, I don't know, John Collins playing the role of Jordan Poole, surrounded by a bunch of kids, and then they do go try and play hard,
but they're not good enough and they win twenty games. Again, is that a scenario you could see?
Yeah, I think that's the most likely scenario. I would just also say that that Washington team is tanked, like they you pointed out they didn't play Chris Middleton at the end of the year, like they didn't play Marcus Myit very much, you know, like they they were making decisions in the fourth quarter of games that meant that they were trying to lose them, right, Like I watched the Wizards because I cared about whether or not the Jazz got the first or second seat in the NBA
draft standings, Like they were trying to lose games. Now, look, they probably would have finished bottom eight kind of regardless, right, Like, they probably end up in that bottom five spot. But if you again you want to actually compete in the in the tank rates to be a bottom eight team, I do think you have to tank even to like that Wizard's degree of you know, yeah, sitting in Middleton
for example. So look, yeah, I think that is probably the most likely outcome for the Jazz this year, which is not gonna be super fun basketball, but at least we'll like feel a little bit less.
Gross opening nights which vets on the roster now are on the roster.
Then I don't know, I mean, I yeah, I don't know. They're going to try to create all of them, I think. So I mean, look, you you at least have to have the conversation you if you bring Lowery in with the you know, and let's I don't think Walker Caster is a vet yet. So if you bring Lowry and Walker into the season, and I think that's like a twenty five win team, you know, like and I think that is again really close to that eighth spot where you're giving up giving up the pick of the Oklaoba
City Thunder. So you at least have to have the conversations. And our guy Tony Jones is on today telling everyone that Lowry has remained, retained all of his value. So I've never been more convinced that the Jazz are going to try to.
Trade Oh dear, oh dear, what would be okay? So, and I tend to agree with you. What would be the type of return?
You think? Well, I guess I'll say Austin.
Now, what sort of return does an Austin Ainge look for while shopping Lowry marketing?
Is it straight?
I mean, there are rules here, and the Jazz don't have cap space. They can't just absorb contracts, so you do have to match money unless John Collins shocks us all and walks away from the player option and we have a different conversation.
But when you get there, and if you get.
A release, if we all get a release, like, hey, the Jazz have traded Lowry market and what type of return do you think Austin's looking for?
Yeah, I mean you're you're looking for salary release, you're hoping for a interesting young player, and then you're hoping for a pick or two. I mean, I think last year that was essentially the Warriors trade right, like was a couple of first round picks and Jonathan Cominga was kind of the hope, and you know, you're kind of hoping for that same thing as last year. I made fun of Tony in the last answer, like, I do think you can get something semi similar to what you
were offered. I just think that it can come from fewer teams. It's it's tricky because you know, the Warriors, I think you can worry about them in the long term, but they also have so much money that they can kind of play it like the Lakers a little bit and just kind of stay in that seventh to tenth
spot for a while. So you don't love getting their picks, but it's hard to know, you know, I don't know that there's a team that you're really excited on betting on their picks that are going to be trading for lowry either. So I do anticipate a ton of player movement this year, and I think just like being part of a three or fourteen trade could be the outcome here. And that's you know where like a guy like Justin Zanik is actually really useful because he does have those
connections around the league. So yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly how that plays out, but that's my guest, is like it's some salary relief pick or two and an interesting young player.
All right, we're going to revisit it every week. Can tell the draft. Luckily it's only a couple of weeks. But before I set, you loose the current Andy Larson opinion of best case scenario at five for the Jazz is who and why?
Probably Vijay. It's come right now, and I don't know that. I think it's unlikely that he falls to five, but if he does, I think that's probably best case because I like I like his tools, I like his production as a freshman. His stats are actually better than I
think he's given credit for. I thought he measured out well at the combine, and I think he's the kind of tough minded defensive type the off name said that he was interested in, right like, I think that you can question that with other guys at the top of this draft. Ace Bailey, I'm just going to say the name, and I don't think you have to worry about that very much.
With Vj's come, we don't have time to talk about oursell and Honestly, I don't want to, Andy, so I'm gonna set you loose on Wednesday and we'll chat soon.
But okay, sounds good.
Thanks, thanks,