On a Monday afternoon, the legend himself, Scott Mitchell. Scott, happy Monday, sir.
How are you? Thank you? I'm good. There might be some folks up on the hill that aren't good right now, but you know life, I can't complain. I'm good. There you go. Yeah.
I like that attitude.
And look, last week I was the guy that was holding on to the final branch before we actually tumble out of the tree. And now I'm face down in the mud, Scott. Now I'm face down in the mud. I got nothing like I get a lot of things wrong. You know, you've done this job for a long time. You get some things right, you get some things wrong.
I've got plenty wrong. I don't know, and I'm just speaking for me personally that I've ever been so wrong about something as wrong as I've been about this Utah football team all year.
I'm out of answers.
Man.
Just from a macro standpoint, Where'scott Mitchell on this?
Well? Oh, I feel your pain and I feel your like bewilderment, because really you think about the first part of the season, you play SUU and it looks really good and Cam rising Okay, he's back from his injury and Baylor starts out amazing and then he just runs into the whatever he ran into and it just and there goes the season. And I know it's not just on one player, but Cam Rising when he was here and he was healthy, he was one player that really
changed the whole trajectory of this program. I mean, playing San Diego State and he comes in in the second half of that game four or five years or seven, eight nine, I don't know how many years he's been at Utah, and he was electric, and he was different, and he brought an attitude and he brought a belief that there just wasn't there, and he did some incredible things. And to me, it's so much about you look at college football and your fortunes really do in a lot
of way center around a really really good quarterback. And all the good teams in the country have them, and they all either a lot of them aren't homegrown, hired these guns, and and a lot of them have worked out. I mean there's some that haven't, but a lot of these quarterbacks in the transfer portal and have have have panned out. And that that's really the biggest kind of uh, you know, because the defense has played well enough to win every single game that we've lost, I mean really have,
and and the offense just has been a kneemic. And the way I look at it is there's something really weird going on on the offensive side of the ball, and it's and it's you know, and it's probably they look they got a true freshman who's been playing and he's just okay, and he's and he's just you know, he hasn't improved as the year has gone on, and and you're seeing the same performance every single week when he when he's out there, it's just very very pedestrian,
and and it's there's just not a lot there. And it's not saying he can't get there down the road, but right now he's just not ready to play. And so you're just it, you've just been in a tough situation with the quarterback there. But the other thing you're seeing is you're seeing all sides penalties, You're seeing you're seeing guys drop balls, You're seeing guys not come back
to the football. You're seeing very inaccurate throws. You're seeing a lot of fundamental things that if you're going to be consistent offensively, you just can't have guys shooting you in the foot right and left, and that's what's happening. It's not just a quarterback play. It's across the board.
Everyone play, and it's a mindset. It's a mindset of being focused and being taking care of those little details, because those little details that's really what the difference is between winning and losing, and between having a consistent performance offensively and not. You know, you can't just go through the motions and practice and just run the place. You have to run the plays to a level of excellence. And if you don't, when you get in a game,
it just doesn't show up. So you just see these things, these fundamental things across the board not happening, and that's why this team's been really poor and inconsistent offensive. Now, the good news to that spense is it's all fixable. Like to you have to change your focus, you have to change your practice habits, you have to you have to have a commitment to being excellent when you're out on the field, and you can do that and whether you are perfect about it not relevant. It's it's the
approach and the attitude that's the important thing. And I'm just not seeing that with and it's really the offensive side of the ball from me.
Yeah, And we'll get over the defense in a moment, because to your point, there are a lot of metrics that indicate this is still a top shelf defense, but they're not getting to the quarterback and they're not turning the other team over. I mean, they're doing a lot of things well, they're just not doing the things that we're used to seeing them do well when they're head coaches coach with. But we'll get to that in the moment because I do want to stay on the offensive side of the ball.
Now.
We talked last week and this is not a knock.
I just wonder aloud what Mike Pajakian can find in an Andy Ludwig offense and Andy Ludwig himself couldn't find. So, now that we have one game, which is a really small sample size, did anything different or unique stand out to you based off of the different play caller?
Well, this isn't going to be a popular statement, Spence, but this is what I saw, and that is shoot, Brandon Rose actually looked pretty decent at quarterback. That was the most positive thing that I saw out of that game. And it was the decision on where to throw the ball. He threw the ball accurately. The interception wasn't some just what is hair brain? What are you thinking kind of throw. He's trying to make a play third down. The receiver
needs to come back to him in that situation. And I didn't really any and he had guys drop the ball on him. And that he threw very accurately. He seemed really poised. He ran, he with decisiveness. He he played with decisiveness, and and he you know, he's barely got to play. The guy with the most experienced understanding this offense. He's had the most reps at it, whether it's been in practice or where and it's not been in a game. But but he's probably the most prepared
and ready to play from an experienced maturity understanding. And and you know, if it's me, and I think it was the right thing to do because that offense was going nowhere. Uh, it just wasn't. It wasn't going anywhere with with with Isaac. And I'm not I'm not. I'm not like, oh, Isaac's you know, a bust or anything like that. As young He's just a young kid that just needs to grow and mature and and he's just
not ready to play yet, just not. And so if there was anything positive out of that, maybe more of Brandon Rose executing this offense might might work well for this team.
Huh interesting.
So I guess I'll follow up and just ask you if you because here we go again, Scott like, we're gonna do the song and dance thing for the next twelve days before BYU about who's it going to be Isaac or Brandon like we're and you know, there's gonna be Choy messaging. We won't find out. Probably my guess is up up until kick. But I guess I'll just follow up and ask you, do you believe that for the rest of the year, starting with Brighamy Young in twelve days under center should be Brandon Rose.
If you're gonna make a change, it's a great time to do it because he's gonna get all the practice reps. He's gonna get two weeks of practice reps, and he's gonna you know, he's gonna get a little bit of timing. He threw the ball very well with a limited time he had in the game. He actually threw the ball very well. So if you're gonna do it. It's certainly, it's certainly the right time to do it. And sometimes
that change, you know, can be a spark. I mean, I mean everyone was like Charlie Brewer, you know, a few years ago, and and he beat out Cam Rising like like he would the coaches. Everyone shows Charlie Brewer to be the starter. And Charlie was running this offense like a lot of these quarterbacks you've seen the last couple of years run it. And then all of a sudden, Cam Rising comes in and it's a whole different offense. So maybe that's the situation where we're in here because
no one knows. No one knows what Rose can do at this time, I mean, because he's never played, and no one knew what Cam Rising could have done. And I just saw a guy who wanted to play football when Brandon Rose got out there and played. So you know, you got to you gotta talk Isaac Wilson off the ledge, you know, because he's young, and you don't want to you don't want to mess him up, but it might be a good time for him to just kind of
take a seatback. I know a lot of people are like, now, throw him in there, give him all of this experience, and I'm I'm just not seeing a lot of improvement right now from Isaac Wilson. Like I'm and I'm a big fan of game reps and all that stuff, but I'm seeing more regression with Isaac than i am improvement.
Okay, well, I guess we'll see. I mean, look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm kind of surprised, Scott because from my vantage point, I just figured at this point, I mean, look, if we're honest, what really is on the table, and if the only thing that you're playing for is to play spoiler, that's a bad indicator of where you're at as a program. So if you know, look a couple more wins should get to a throwaway bowl. Obviously you'd like the bowl experience for the seniors upperclassmen.
We don't want to see anybody go out on a downturn. And certainly, if this is Kyle's last year, which a lot of people believe that it is, I have no insight into that. You do want to go out with a little bit more of a bang than you're doing right now. But if there really isn't much on the table as far as what we thought could be on the table to start the year, I just thought you might as well let Isaac go through the growing pains, right and just give them some reps.
And I I've been a believer of that, and I am a believer in that, but I'm also in a believer of you know, there's sometimes guys just aren't ready to play. Yeah, And and what I've seen is, you know, if my freshman year at Utah had I played, I probably would have been okay. But having you know, a maturity, just being in the program, having some confidence in myself and my ability, I was far far suited to start playing the second year and then you know, and beyond.
But it's a it's a tall order for a true freshman to step in there and really really, you know, do well. And what you don't want to do is you don't want to put all these ghosts in a kid's closet that come out later on in his career. You know, if all he's learning when he goes out on the field is is like these bad images, and you know that you don't want to you don't want to put that in a guy's mind either. And and there there really is a time when some kids they're
just they're just not quite ready for it. They just aren't. And and and it's okay. It doesn't mean it's the end of him. It doesn't mean anything. It just means that in this moment right now, it's probably best for you to just take a step back, if I expense, if I saw him like, okay, you know, there's improvement. And but I've kind of seen the same performance the last four week, you know, pretty much since he's been in there. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing a step forward with Isaac.
Wilson, Yeah, for sure.
And I'm not saying you're wrong, I you know, I'm I'm just kind of trying to dig down a couple of different levels to understand what's going on. I mean, look, I could run through all the metrics. They're fifteenth in total, oh, they're eleventh and rushing, they're tenth and passing their fifteenth in efficiency, Like, by any measurable metric, this is one of the bottom three or four offenses in all of
the Big twelve. But let me go back to asking you once again about the play calling away from either Brandon or Isaac. Did you see anything from Mike in his first game. Simply from calling plays that you it gives you some hope that this might look different starting with b Yu.
I mean honestly, no, I mean it's the same offense. You know, I didn't I didn't see anything. I go, oh, okay, that's that's kind of creative. That's that's a little bit different. They Utah was, you know, clearly I thought, uh, you know, trying to establish the run pretty patiently. Uh And but there wasn't any They weren't really running the ball right. Uh. They're also running against a front designed to stop the run. And and and they've I've been seeing these same looks
from all the teams. They're they're just challenging Utah to to throw the football and just say your quarterback's got to beat us, and and and they haven't been able to do that. And uh so you're when you are running it, you're you're running with kind of your hand tied behind your back a little bit. And so it's it's tough sledding and and uh but you know, I think that's the game plan. They said, Look, we're gonna we're gonna run the ball. We're just going to you know,
try to, you know, work off of that. And and I don't think it worked very well for for Isaac in the game. Uh moving forward, you know, I don't know if they change that they do more. But yeah, the offense, there wasn't anything to me that I go, well, okay, that's that gives me a lot of excitement and hope you Spence, you're talking to a guy that's been in some of the greatest offenses in like the history of
the NFL. I'm not joking like I mean, I mean the offense I had it so for me to watch all of this from just the ground level forever, you know, really, look, Kyle Whittingham's a defensive minded coach. It's not about playing great offense. It never is. And and so you know, I don't see where Mike but Jakin's going to come in and all of a sudden they're going to have a great offense.
Yeah, I mean, look, I want honesty and truthful you know, interactions on this show. So I appreciate you kind of giving us the medicine because I certainly respect your eye in a way that others probably can't see it because you've played it at the highest of levels.
I wonder what your thoughts are, Scott.
You know, after the game, Mackai Bernard essentially said, I know what's up.
I'm just not going to say it out loud now.
If I had to guess, it's simply the play of the quarterback position. And you know, maybe Mackay doesn't want to throw anybody under the bus. But that that led to a lot of speculation about what exactly is going on behind closed doors.
What are your thoughts on that.
I'm sure that plays into it. I'm sure that there may be you know, there's this there's a chemistry thing with teams, and it's and it's not the culture of the program. It's the chemistry of the players and how they interact with each other because you look at the body language and that that's what really what I was alluding to earlier. When you see guys not focused in games,
some something else is going on in their minds. They're they're they're upset by maybe I didn't get the same kind of money this guy did or whatever, you know, because that's that's kind of creeping into college football and these players, and and when you start getting those thoughts or those your focus goes outside of Hey, your job every week is to get yourself ready to play, and you don't get yourself ready to play when you're wondering, is the quarterback going to throw me to football? Is
the coach going to call a play for me? You know? Am I you know I'm you know I'm not I'm not involved in the offense. What are you? Excuse me? You you have this distraction and you have things that and it impacts the way you play. And that's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing guys not doing those fundamental things and they should be and I know they're coach to do it, but they're not doing it. And that's not just the quarterbacks. And so these guys are distracted in
some way. They're not putting in the focus, they're not putting in the time to mentally and physically prepare themselves to play. Why why they're doing it? If they're upset that the quarterback's not playing very well and and you go, well, we got no shot to win the game anyways, you know, it's it's it's uh uh, it's it is impacting their play.
I mean, it just it just is so there, Uh, there's something some dynamics, some chemistry going on on that team that's not conducive to production and winning.
Yeah, and and to your point, and just in order to be fair, uh, let's move off the quarterback position because we'll see what happens against Uyu, whether.
It's Isaac or Brandon.
But the truth is, uh, there are not a lot, not a lot of things that are working right now. I mean, kicker miss a couple of field goals, Brandon's interceptions set up a game winning field goal, and the defense got Uh. There are a lot of metrics that, like I said, indicate that the defense is very good.
They're second scoring d they're number one in total D they're number three and rushing, they're number three in passing, their number three in efficiency, but they are not getting to the quarterback.
They have not had a sack in three games.
They're eleventh in the conference in sacks, they're last in the conference in fumbles forced, their second to last in the conference, and fumble's recovered their ninth in interceptions. Like, there are metrics to indicate that the defense still clearly is the strength of the team. That's not a hot take, But what do you make of what I just perceived to be when a team is coached by Kyle Whittingham, they get to the quarterback, they force turnovers, they play.
That complimentary football.
What do you most attribute to the lack of pressure that Utah is being able to drum up on the opposing team's quarterback.
I'm gonna throw it back on the offense, I am, and I'll tell you why the offense has not performed well. Hasn't driven the ball down the field, hasn't given the defense time to rest in games. So as games progress and go on, as defense gets tired, and they've been down a couple of Conroe tool being out has has hurt them a lot. And and he kind of, you know, gave him a good spark this last week when he
was in the game and he wasn't in there. You know, I'm sure they're slowly kind of bringing him back to the game. But Houston barely threw the football. A lot of the teams, I mean TCU, which throws the heck out of the football, didn't and they got rid of the ball really quick. They a lot of teams aren't really giving Utah a chance and they don't have to.
And and you you saw a lot of patients with the running game out of TCU a couple of weeks ago as a team that all they want to do is throw it right like like they they you know, they realize that the Utah offense is not very good and that and that's the other thing. When you're not scoring, when you're not you know, you're not getting any kind of lead, and you're always playing from behind, then there's
no pressure on the other offense. They don't have to open it up, they don't have to throw the ball as much. They don't, so there's not as many opportunities for for the you know, the defense to really get sacks. They're just there, just haven't been it. I mean, teams have really really focused on running the football against Utah.
I mean it's blatantly running the football. And then and what happens the defense gets tired late in the game because they've been out on the field all night, and you get worn down and you get you know, and then you start missing tackles and you start getting lazy in your gap control, you know, at the line of scrimmage, and then all of a sudden, boom, they just bust a big run and that and that's that's really kind of what's been happening, you know, with with a lot
of with a lot of these these defensive plays, and and uh, and with with the limitations, with the the excessive demands that the defense has been asked to do because the offense has not been pretty. I really believe outside of one thing, the defense has been playing really well. And they and there's there's been a lot of mistackles. And you can attribute mistackles to guys being tired. I mean, and I know it's like, you know, just suck it up and play, And I'm sure they think that way,
but your body doesn't necessarily react that way. You know, when you're tired, you just and you may not even realize it. But a lot of mistackles that I don't normally see from the defense. That's the one thing to me that's been more more of an issue than anything else.
So this simply leads us to what comes next, right and BUYU.
They have stayed clean.
You know, they're undefeated, their atop the conference, there a top ten team, and they've answered every question that's been thrown at them. I don't think there's really anything left to wonder about whether or not they're for real they are, and the numbers say that, the data says that, and Scott, you know this better than anybody. They're gonna be smelling the blood in the water and they're gonna come up here to go for the jugular.
You know, they know where Utah's at.
And after a generation of having their heads kicked in and being made fun of for going independent and not having a conference home like, they're gonna come up here, you know, ready ready to roll. What what do you hope to see between now and the BYU game?
Uh?
And then during the actual game to indicate to you from your prism that maybe this thing is about to be turned around.
Well, to start with, what really makes me nervous about this Utah BYU game is this is a This is a group of players at Utah that have grown up without being a part of this rivalry. They don't understand it. They've never played in a game. They don't realize the significance of it. They don't think they they don't, they don't they think, they don't think much of it. And
now the coaches do. The coaches understand it. But one of these players has has has felt it, has been in it, and and even when Utah was in the Pac twelve, it still wasn't the rivalry that it was before. And so now this is this, this is a big deal. This is gonna continue to be a big deal between these two schools. And I'm just I'm a little nervous to players, Uh don't at Utah, I don't. I don't.
And a team that's not really been fighting that hard anyways, are they going to really all of a sudden step it up and go, Okay, this a rivalry game. We got to really get into this one on the other side of it. So that that's a concern. I'm not saying it's it's gonna happen or whatever, but but it would concern me. The other thing to me is all the pressures on b YU, Like you know, it's it's
it's that time of the year. It's that one game where you know, the game gets started and you and you are a little bit maybe more jazzed up than you normally would be because it is the rivalry. You start pressing a little bit, you get a you get an interception here there or a turnover, and it just starts going downhill and uh, you know, so, so I could see where it could be one of those weeks where because there's a lot of pressure when you're nine to zero and and a lot of pressure to keep
doing it. And and uh, rivalry games, funny things happen, and not necessarily the best team always wins. So so
you know, I could see that scenario happening. And and and it's a good time, uh, you know, to have another bye week and to kind of maybe collect yourself and and and I think, you know, there's gonna be a lot of you know, pretty harsh talk about I want to you know, we're going to play the guys that really want to play and really want to be here and really want to be out on the field, and you and show you may see some changes in
in what's happening with with Utah. And you know, if there ever is a moment, if there ever is something to play for in your program and you're having a struggling year, it's a rivalry game, It really is. It can you know, it's not going to take the sting of the huge disappointment this season is, but it it can take some of it away from what, you know, what's what's been a really abysmal year.
So how much of this Scott is fixable and coachable, how much of it is on the coaches, how much of it's on the players?
And then then.
Simply put, as a guy that played it at the highest level, how do you turn a train it feels like it's so far off the track around in just twelve days?
Like dissect that for me.
Well, a lot of those things that I told you about coming back to the football and focusing and not going off sides and better ball location and throws, all of that stuff is fixable and and it's it's all of these fundamental things. And you know, coach made us tackle form tackle every every day. First thing we did in practice of the quarterback, you're not tackling Dan Marino. I didn't get to tackle him. He said, don't care, you're not tackling me. I'll tackle you, but you're not
tackling me. And it was all about the fundamentals, and the fundamentals of football were driven into us every single day. And when you get into a weird situation nineteen ninety five, we started zero three and it could have fallen off a cliff. We really just circle the wagons. And it was even a bye week and we focused back on those fundamental things of football and really re emphasized all of it and really looked at the personnel we had and said, how do they best work? And let's not
try to do everything. Let's just try to do the things that we can do well. And that's what I see happening now. You can't fix a freshman quarterback. He's still a freshman, but there's a lot of other things you can fix around it, and maybe sitting in for a little while might not be a bad thing. But a hun percent of this is fixable. And really it's all in your brain, Spence. I mean, it's just it's a mindset. It's a mindset about how you prepare and that's that's the thing that has to be fixed.
Well, I'll tell you what.
We'll end on this from your perspective, because for me and we all just kind of react off our own inner circle. And I'm sure some of this is cognitive dissonance and echo chamber based off of who I interact with.
And you know, I have a lot.
Of friends who are boosters and season ticket holders and donors and obviously, as in alarm year, connected in the community. I don't recall a time where I feel like the fan base has been so down about a season, and part of this probably was unrealistic expectations in retrospect.
I mean, for me, and I'm sure you did the same.
I always prefaced any ute projection with if Cameron's under center and healthy, and obviously that hasn't been the case.
I don't think we can be so reductive.
As just to say this as a Cam thing anymore, because certainly that's probably the biggest piece of it, but there are other pieces as well.
When's the last time from.
Your vantage point, it felt as dire as it seems like it feels right now surrounding this team.
It might be back when I was playing here, I mean in the eighties, you know. I mean it's it's it's there's a bad feeling and it's look, it's accentuated because BYU's doing so well, it just makes it worse. It just does you know? Can you turn around the last four games of the season? You sure hope. So. I think the thing that's shocking to me is I felt like Utah was a really solid team at every position,
and solid with the depth. And because depth is such an important part, because you're gonna have attrition and and having guys come in. And you've seen some injuries, and some guys have really stepped up at a lot of different positions and played and and and yet that quarterback position is just such a such a bugaboo. If you're if you're going to have a great year, well you got to get a guy under center who stays healthy
and performs at a high level. But for me, you know, I was I was trying to be super objective and just say, Okay, I'm gonna look at it. I'm not gonna try to be the ute fan. And I just I just said, this is a deep team, this is a good team. The problem is is you still have to play and and and there have been some positions, the tight end position massively underperforming, the wide receiver position massively underperforming. McKay. Bernard's been phenomenal, but who's is there
any other running back there? The offensive line is actually performed fairly decent. You know, quarterback position has been you know, C minus ish or even lower. Uh. And so yeah, you always know the season is not going to end the way you think it is or play out because guys have to perform and they have to play, and and it's it's just, you know, the worst possible things I think could happen this year have happened, and and and it's it's a tough one. It's a tough one
to swallow. And and you just the one thing you know is you can change You can change things quickly. And you can because of the NIL and because of the transfer portal, and so you're not you're not stuck in this challenge forever. You can have quick turnarounds. And and there are probably some things that are gonna have to change. There's some players that are going to need to get in here. If this if this is really gonna if it's really going to get back on track.
I lied to you, Scott, to have one more because I wanted to get your thoughts on. I wanted to get your thoughts on just a dynamic that I was wondering aloud about earlier. Morgan Morgan Scaley, who is in line to take over for Kyle, and Kyle decide that he's done. And like I can continue to say, I have no insight there, but people that know in a way that I wouldn't have wondered loud if this is it for coach Wait, what do you thinks go and through?
Morgan said, because there's actually a way to spin this in a positive direction. It's always tough to take over for a legend, ask Kalin de Boor. But if this track, if this train continues to go in the wrong direction, and Morgan is able to get it back on track next year, maybe it will inspire some confidence that UTAH has made the right succession planned decision. How do you think Morgan's digesting all this right now?
I think that whole dynamic spense is hard. When it was announced, I get why they announce it. It's force recruits, It's to show continuity in the program. It's also the people were courting Morgan to leave. I know specifically, USC was going to pay him a lot of money to leave. So it was a way to kind of ensure that he sticks in the program. But the thing is is
it can. It's a funky dynamic because as a player, you go, well, I know Coach WIT's going to leave sometime, and so I think you could get to where, you know, I'm not really following Coach Whittingham anymore because he's not going to be around, you know, he's really kind of he's kind of the guy, but he's kind of not the guy. You know. It's it's it's, uh, it can get I think it could get kind of odd. And
I mean I thought of this scenario. You know, maybe maybe maybe Morgan went to Kyle and said, hey, look, I don't think I want Andy as the coordinator. I mean, I mean, there's there's a lot of different you know, so so let's let's get rid of him now and uh, and I'll move into different And I'm just speculating here. I'm just saying there's just a lot of a lot of scenarios that could play out. The bottom line, Coach Whittingham is a really good coach that done a phenomenal
job at Utah. Morgan has been an outstanding coach player. You know, if there's anyone that's should be the coach at Utah should be Morgan. And and when you go into a situation, you believe you or you have all the answers, and I guarantee you Morgan scally believes he has all the answers, and I guarantee you that he'll take from coach winning him what he likes. But he's also going to be Morgan Scalley and who he really is, and and and and it and it's proven to be
a really a really good coach. And that's not a bad thing, you know. Uh, Kyle learned from people, and you know, he wasn't Urban Meyer, but he learned a lot of things from rbyn Or or Coach Mack. And so I think Morgan is really feeling like, Man, I can't wait to get my hands on the steering wheel here.
I can't wait to be the guy because I'm sure he's very ready for this, and I'm sure he has his own ideas and his own thoughts and and but I do think it would be hard right now to kind of, look, you kill him a program here that I'm getting in there, you know, I mean, I mean I could see that, you know, being being kind of a sticky point between between the two of them as as they're kind of waiting for Kyle to decide to end.
All right, Scott, Well, good stuff today, man. I appreciate the time, and we'll see if they get it turned around. Have a good day, okay, all right, thanks appreciate it it, Scott Mitchell. Yeah, it's it's not great, not great. Bob not great,