All right, what's going on drive time on a Wednesday afternoon. Sunny and a little bit warmer today than it has been over the past seventy two hours here in downtown saw Lake City, Utah.
It's at our Broadway.
Media Studios, and as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along for the ride. Spence check, it's beyond the mike. That's Porter Larson behind the glass. Today we have a short show for you guys, a bit of a sprint instead of our four hour typical marathon. This afternoon, we're gonna make way for Utah basketball coming up at about three thirty. You'll hear a pregame coverage
between the Uts and the Houston Cougars. Houston's one of the best teams in the country, a national championship contender, a Final four contender, certainly, so we'll get into that game on the program today as we will bring that to you early. A lot to do between now and then. Know Utah Jazz made a trade. It's weird these pieces of breaking news have come down, like with two seconds left in the show, So try to do what you can and make sense of the news that came down.
But we'll talk about it today. The Jazz made a trade with the Phoenix Suns. What exactly does it mean, why would they do it, and what could be next for quite frankly both teams. Obviously, the trade deadline is coming up February the sixth, That is right around the corner, and a lot of conversations about trades the Jazz could be involved in. So we'll give you some thoughts on
that today on the program. One day closer to conference Championships Sunday in Pro football, don't forget we are your home of the biggest and best football events, whether it's college or pro. So you're gonna hear the games on our radio station coming up on Sunday for the right to go to the Super Bowl. Coming up, it's the Commanders and the Eagles live in Philipdelphia, starting at one o'clock Mountain Toime on Fox. Billy's a six point five
point favorite in that game. The line hasn't moved much. The line moved towards Kansas City yesterday and the Chiefs are now two point favorite of the Buffalo Bills at Arrowhead. For the second straight year, those two teams play for the AFC Championship. So one day closer, of course to
the weekend and too little pro football. Utah Jazz are in action tonight, taking on one of, if not the best teams in the entire NBA Oklahoma City six o'clock Mountain times start, So you get a little Utah basketball tonight or this afternoon at four o'clock against Houston, you'll get a little Utah OKC as well. And we've got a lot to do on the program between now and three twenty five.
The New York Jets avoy coach.
Definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Aaron Glenn seems like a good dude, played for the Jets in the nineties. In other first time head coach with a defensive background, and so far that has not gone well. Could Pete Carroll be heading to coach the Raiders? A lot of rumors
in that direction too. So we're gonna bring in Zach Harper today NBA Daily assist I. We'll talk about what the Jazz did with the Suns, what could be next for Utah And it's Jimmy Butler on his way to Phoenix now, so we'll bring in Zach Harper Neil Smith stops by. We talked to Neil every week about the NHL and the Utah Hockey Club. Utah Hockey Club is off tonight. They're back at action tomorrow on the road. Just completing a seven game homestand and only got two
wins there. So Minnesota good team. We'll take on Utah tomorrow. That game is on ESPN Plus and also Hulu as the NHL also kind of makes their way into these streaming slash linear broadcast situation. So Quick Show ninety minutes to day on Wednesday, Zach Harper, Neil Smith, Me Spence check it to all of you, the great listeners, and that guy Porter Larson breaking news as we ended the show. It seems like there's I don't know what it's been over the past few weeks, like the title nine ruling
came down as we were finishing the show. Jazz made a trade a lot of conversation about it. We were ending the show as the news came down. Where are you at with it today after kind of digesting it?
Yeah, as you mentioned, awkward timing for us on the end of the shows lately, and that's part of the afternoon drive deal usually, you know, a lot of times you're ending the show, games are in progress, or people are news dumping things at five pm as we hang up. But you know, I like how you laid it out
a little bit in cross talk with Scott. It's something that of course, when you're trading for picks, when you're trading for draft capital, and you're trading picks that you don't necessarily know where they're going to land, Spence, you're you're taking a gamble. It's a gamble, but it's a gamble that could move the Jazz up into the drafts, and I think it's a gamble worthwhile because of the talent in the top end of NBA drafts. In today's game,
it's different story Spence than fifteen twenty years ago. And I know there's some pushback still to that, but just the sports science of yeah, maybe the demeanors of players is different, but we're talking about just athletic prospects. They're better now than they've ever been. Go look at the top five in the draft a few years ago with Anthony Edwards, and I mean, if you miss on a
top five pick, there's something wrong. Whereas fifteen years ago, sometimes it was hard you know there's one standout or two. It's different now, and I like moving up getting some draft capital that could be at the top end of the NBA draft rather than the bottom half, because I do think that the talent is it's just different, and the Jazz are looking to capitalize on that.
Unprotected picks and pro basketball are like unicorns. So I think, you know, I think most people agree that the Jazz did something that makes a lot of sense.
Now only time will tell if it works.
But we'll get into it as we have a good NBA guest on the show today. But before Zach Harper joins us courtousy of our good friends, Standard Restaurants supply your one stop shop for all your tailgate needs.
On a short Wednesday show, It's time now for your opening tip.
Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check. It's on Utah's number one Sports Talk Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurants, supply your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurants Supply thirty five hundred Southwest Temple.
NBA Trade deadline is right around the corner.
It is on February the sixth, so just about two weeks away or so ish thereabouts, and the Utah Jazz a rumor to be part of a bunch of potential hypothetical deals.
Of course, those are only rumors.
We can only talk about what we know and what's already gone down. So as we were saying goodnight last night, in the five o'clock hour breaking new Shamsharani, ESPN, the Phoenix Suns receive a twenty twenty five first round pick from the Jazz in addition to a twenty twenty seven first round pick and a twenty twenty nine first round pick. In exchange, Utah receives a twenty thirty one first round pick from the Suns. On the surface, it's like what exactly are.
We doing here? But when you dig into it, it makes a lot of sense.
So in all three drafts twenty five, twenty seven, and twenty nine, the picks the Suns receive will be the least favorable of Utah, Minnesota, and Cleveland. Okay, that's the deal with all three of these picks and all three of these drafts. If you're Danny Ainge, if you're justin Zannik. If you're part of the Jazz front office, you've simply done your calculation on mostly Cleveland and Minnesota a little bit.
But Minnesota is getting a little bit older, and even that pick this year for the Jazz could be late lottery. The Cleveland Cavaliers pick this year might be the last pick in the first round, and Cleveland has a lot of good young players who you know. Nobody knows how
things could change during the course of any offseason. But this is the Jazz doing their calculation on the Cavs mostly and saying we believe on all three of these in all three of these draft cycles twenty five, twenty seven, and twenty nine, we believe the least favorable of these three picks are most likely going to be late first round twenty five to thirty thereabouts. So we're fine giving away three picks that are probably going to be twenty.
Five to thirty.
That's our calculation to Phoenix in exchange for an unprotected pick of theirs in twenty thirty one. Unprotected picks are
like unicorns and pro basketball. You can grab one, you got to do it, and the Jazz have probably done their calculation on the Phoenix Suns, and you understand that Kevin Durant at thirty six and Bradley Beal at thirty one and Devin Booker in his late twenties, there's a good chance that this pick that's unprotected from Phoenix in twenty thirty one comes during a year where they're probably going to need to be pivoting or maybe even fall on rebuilding the way the Jazz are now.
Is that a guarantee? Of course it's not.
Matt Eshbia, who just bought that team, seems to be a very willing owner as far as spending money, and he's probably gonna do everything he can to make sure the Suns are as competitive as they can be every single year. But that's not a guarantee. And the NBA is cyclical. We're seeing it here right now. Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down. Sometimes you're trying to get back up as much as you know, as quick as you can.
But it's not that easy to do.
And the Suns have found themselves in scenarios similar to where the Jazz find themselves now. Your veteran players either a jon or they want to get paid and they move on or something happens in the locker room and you just say to pivot kind of the way that it happened here with Gobert and Mitchell.
Things happen all the time.
But there's a really good chance the Jazz just traded three late first round picks for an unprotected draft asset in twenty thirty one. That might be really, really special. And if you're the Jazz, you have to lean in on every possible scenario to try to finally and you need lady luck the way the Jazz haven't had Lady luck yet. Nine lottery appearances, the Jazz have never moved up. At some point that has to change, and you give
yourself as many options as possible. You give yourself as the best odds possible to finally land that pick that could change things. And that's what makes a process like this worth it. The problem is when you look at processes like this around the league. The Philadelphia seventy six or did the very same thing. It took them five full years to finally get the pick in the player that changed their roster and their franchise, and that was
Joe LMB. Now, obviously he hasn't been able to stay healthy This is not a Philadelphia seventy six or topic.
You get the gist. This is all about.
Trying to find that one pick that could finally be the pick that changes the Jazz organization because in the past they've had to rely on savvy draft and talent evaluation in spots in the draft where you don't typically get great players. Late lottery Mitchell, late first round, Go Bear, John and Carl both mid to late first round picks.
You get the deal. Carolinko second round pick.
The only like top five pick they've really developed in the modern day of the Jazz has been Darren and they traded him because he and Jerry got loose. Find the pick that ends up to be the Victor Wembanyama, find the pick that ends up to be the Cooper Flag, find the pick that ends up to be the aj Debantsa, and then we're on our way. But until then, you're
just you're spinning your wheels. You're running around one of those mouse wheels and just you know, every single year you're winning thirty thirty five games in drafted eight, nine, ten to eleven. That's the way to find Keante George. That's the way to find Taylor Hendrix. That's the way to find real, nice role players. And we're simply playing the percentages because of course there are exceptions. There are late lottery picks that turn into be some of the
best picks that we've ever seen. There's the best player in the world right now was drafted in the second round. It's not the only way to do this, but it's giving yourself the best chance to do it juxtaposed to the way you've done it lately, because you have to base this on the way teams have been built and team you know, great championship teams draft, they develop, and they retain. But championship teams have one of those generational
pieces and that's what the Jazz don't have. And that's quite frankly, what the Jazz haven't had for a long long time, depending on on how you analyze Donovan right now, this is one of the rare deals in pro basketball.
That I get why Phoenix does it.
Phoenix, prior to this trade had one draft asset to trade and it was a second round pick because they went all in to get Durant, Booker and Beale together. Now Phoenix has three first round picks. They can either utilize to add talent via the draft. That's affordable because they paid a lot of money to their three big stars. The draft is a great way to add talent without having to pay top dollar. Yet, because they're on rookie deals for three years with a fourth year, that's a
team option. So Phoenix has the chance to use these picks to add affordable young talent. Or they now have something interesting to call Miami about if they want to get Jimmy Butler.
The Jimmy Butler deal is probably going to be complicated.
The Jazz actually could be involved because I think Miami and Phoenix are going to need a third or fourth team for salary implications. Think about when the Jazz trader for Russell Westbrook and Dereck Rose and waived them. The Jazz could be a team that absorbs a contract and they could say, Okay, we'll take the player and the player's contract, but you got to send a first round pick with that player, right. I mean, the Jazz are
actually in a really, really good spot. The problem is all this is hypothetical because if we get to twenty thirty one and Phoenix wins fifty five games and it's the twenty sixth pick.
This was a bad move.
We won't know until twenty thirty one, is what I'm saying, and so strapping for the next six years. It doesn't change anything for right now. It just puts the Jazz once again in a really good spot hypothetically down the road. If things go their way for once, if the ping pong balls bounce their way for once, if Lady Luck shines on the Jazz for once, then we'll look back on deals like this and say, Okay, it worked right. But in the meantime, it's one of those deals where
if you're Phoenix, you do it. If you're Utah, you do it, and I get it. We'll bring in Zach Harper coming up on the other side, and continue to kind of break this stuff down.
Do a little Utah Hockey Club with Neil Smith.
Later on we say good afternoon at about three twenty five in time for Utah Basketball. I'm too tired today to even fight it, I really am. We're on night three of Little Duke. Don't do that, Okay, don't don't force the issue. I'm just saying, we're on night three of the station mascot Duke a little.
Stomach issues, so He's waking.
Me up every two hours, which I appreciate because I'd rather have him go outside to go to the bathroom. But I'm too tired to fight the pitbull thing today. I'm just gonna embrace embrace it. Yeah, but don't sing. Don't sing pit bull on air. That's embarrassing for all of us. We're playing pit bull because Zach Harper joins us. By the way, just real quick, before I forget, we have the number now, Notre Dame Ohio State twenty two point one million viewers. That's three million less than Michigan
Washington last year. And it's got to be Monday night, January twentieth as opposed to January eighth last year. So kind of interesting stuff. Zach Harper, Happy Wednesday, sir.
How are you?
I mean pit bull was playing on them? Excellent?
Do you watch college football?
Though? I do, But I gotta be honest. I had no interest in Ohio State versus Notre Dame. But once it got to that point, I just for whatever reason, and it's you know, I don't really have a reason per se. I just wasn't interested in either side winning.
Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that the CFP Playoffs started seven years ago. I mean, like, yeah, dude, Like last year, the final was on January eighth, and it drew more eyes have. I think a a lot of people, like you may have just been over it because I think it just was kind of extended out way too long.
Yeah, and I you know, it's it's tough in a tournament format, and I do want to give it a couple of years to see if this is the right way. But it it's funny, like, I know this is a bad criticism, but it kind of felt like there were too many teams in it. To me. I was good at just four, Like I really was. I was good at just four. And then they're like, we're doing it twelve, all right, whatever, let's check it out. And then yeah,
maybe it was just it. It was two months of college football playoff and I, yeah, I guess I just got, you know, a little, a little tired of it.
What's the pie chart look like for the Zach Harper sports consumption?
How much of it is pro basketball?
Oh? Man, I mean it's a lot. Like I don't even really watch college anymore. I used to try to keep up with as much college as possible, and I just I can't do it anymore. Yeah, for pro sports, it's probably eighty five percent NBA, ten percent NFL. You know, we'll sprinkle some baseball and there, we'll sprinkle a little bit of college here and there. My dad's a big Georgia Bulldogs fan, so I will watch Georgia games and talk with him about it, just out of you know,
out of necessity. But but yeah, like I mean, it's it's pretty much all NBA, all the time.
Fair enough, fair enough, So Zach, the Jazz made a blockbuster move. They did well, they did not make a blockbuster trade, but they made a trade. And it was the news broke right as I was signing off. So I was trying to drink through a fire hose. And now that you know, I've been able to kind of read about it and listen to people break it down to you, you get why they do it.
Now.
There's no guarantees, right, but they obviously have done their calculation on probably Cleveland mainly, and they've said, okay, we think this year that might be the thirtieth pick. Two years it's probably still late first round. Who knows, in four years, but Cleveland's good, they're young, they're well coach, so I guess Zach, they're like, all right, we'll give Phoenix three picks, we believe, or late first rounders for the chance that in twenty thirty one they're in a
pivot situation or a rebuild situation. We get an unprotected first which is kind of like a unicorn these days.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean you don't get a lot of those. And there's been a lot of teams recently who are kind of just banking on Phoenix is not going to figure this out long term, right, Like you've seen teams kind of poach them some first round picks future first out of them over the last year or two. And I think it's this belief, like I was, I was thinking about it earlier today, and I think I've come to the realization that if you made me a billionaire and I bought a team, I would run it the
exact same way that Manaspiel is just reckless decisions. Who cares about the future. Like, I just want to try to win now. I don't really know how to do that, but I'm gonna try. And like, look, I got a couple of really good players, Let's try to get another
player who cares what the collective bargaining rules are. It does feel like a very impulsive person and I think I think people around the league see the spot that the Suns are in, see the kind of urgency or desperation that they seem to be operating with, and and in theory, like they didn't make a bad trade, right that you acquire three other first round picks in order to to you know, kind of restock the treasure chest of what you might have to. You know, you got
to attach a pick. If you're getting rid of Nurkic, you're gonna need picks for a potential Jimmy Butler trade. If you can get Bradley Beale to agree to it. You know, there's logic behind it. But ultimately, I think people look at the Sun's team around the league and they think, oh, this team's gonna be a disaster, just in terms of financials, you know what they'll be able to sustain, you know, three years from now. I don't
think they're gonna recover by six years from now. So I actually think in terms of what what Danny and everybody did yesterday, I think it's a brilliant gamble by them because I'm with you like that Cav's pick isn't gonna be any good, Like you still get good players there, but it's not gonna be any good. The Wolves pick might end up being good at twenty twenty nine. You know,
you never know what's gonna happen. But for the most part, they said, I don't think Peni's gonna happen in twenty thirty one, and you're gonna give us an unprotected pick like those are Those are the kind of moves that down the road you look back and you're like, I cannot believe somebody let the Jazz get that pick.
And I think, Zach, that's what you have to do. If you're age in Zank. You know, I just don't think there's any other course. And you know, as you know, because we've talked to you about this, I honestly and I don't have anything to confirm this. This is just what I believe in my heart, Zach' So I'm expressing this to you.
That's it.
I really believe that Danny Ainge was half joking and almost trolling people last off season after the season ended, so his first media when he dropped the Big Game hunting line. I really think that there was a little trolley in there. I think he was messing with people. And my feel is justin Zanik went, why would you say that? And I don't like because they're they're their first media prior to this year. Xanik was a little salty and he said, look, we tried. We tried to
go get really good players. We called teams. The rumors around here where somebody in that front office was like, hey, let's sign Paul George and trade for mckel bridges.
And I'm like, oh, go do that. If you can do that, go do that.
You know, but believe in in your dreams and follow them and may God grant, you know, guide you on your quest. There was no way they were going to be able to do that, but I'm sure they called and they realized that they're not right now in a position to bring in top shelf talent.
Okay, how do we do that.
We have to get a top three pick and hopefully number one, because they've been drafting late lottery, mid first round and you can get good players and they have. But when you're building a roster, you simply have to give yourself as many options as possible at one of the special picks that turns into the special player that actually changes your market.
Can you get that in the first round?
Yeah, you can mid first round like a Giannis, But the best chance to get that is a top three pick.
It just is Yeah, historically, that's that's where it happens the most, right, Like, And it doesn't mean there are an exception to the rule. Doesn't mean you can't hit a home run by getting the ninth pick in a couple of years in a row. But but yeah, this is the way you do it. Like I almost wonder there are two things about that whole idea of Danny
trolling everybody, which I love. Is one. Isn't it just fun to say if you're Danny Ainge going to the off season, you throw a wrench into everything by going, oh, by the way, we're going big game hunting right this summer, Like,
it's just fun to say. And it is something that gets an excitement to a fan base that I don't know how, Like it's not that Jazz fans are down on the franchise, but it's hard to get excited when you are picking ninth and you're just kind of you know, you're seeing all these other options, like you missed out on Wenby because of not taking all this stuff like, so I do think it kind of galvanizes a fan base into like a little more excitement going into an
off season. I think that's a smart pr move. The other part of it makes me wonder. You know, he's got a real weird history with pat Riley, and pat Riley's always talked about like going whale hunting when it comes to going and getting guys. I almost just wonder if he threw it out there just as a way of trolling power, Like it wouldn't shock me if he just was trolling pat Riley in that moment.
Bravo. That's three levels deeper than my mind was going. Zach, well done. And on the Phoenix side, as you kind of outlined, you know, they've allocated so much of their cap to those three guys, this gives them. I'll use even though this is going to drive me crazy because everybody's saying it, but I'll use the buzzword optionality because I guess we have to now if you're covering the league right so exactly, so, Yes, I belong to the
church of covering the league. So I'll use it optionality so they can either add three young players on cheap contracts or do you think this opens up a legitimate pathway to Jimmy Butler or something bigger.
I swear, I'm not trying to be mean here. What a stupid word.
I can't stand it. And every like everybody.
And the goobs that don't know anything are the ones that can like this gives them a ton of optionality. I'm like a but again, I guess, yeah.
You have to, you have to. But yeah, Like I mean, I think that this is it's it's not about cheap contracts in the future to help round it. It's about going after Jimmy Butler. That's that's all this is. Like that is the home run play. That is the thing that could create enough to get them back on track. You know, I think they're still chasing that nine and two start where it looks like, oh, this team's figured it out. You know, I think there's a lot going
on there. I think Ishbia is a very impulsive owner and and he has created a work environment. This is just you know, this is just me outside looking in. But prior to him owning the team, it felt like James Jones was a pretty pragmatic, smart front office guy, and since then they've been wildly reckless in my opinion. Now I'm here for it. I think I'm here for
taking big swings. I think it's a good idea. But this is about getting Jimmy Butler and I like last night as this deal you know, this deal goes down yesterday, and talking about it with certain people and you know, trying to get some understanding from behind the scenes of certain things going on. And so I just tried to work out a three, four or five team deal to get deal to Milwaukee, which has been rumored, to get Butler to Phoenix, and figure out where the other pieces
go to make it work. Spence, I'm telling you, I worked on this thing on a trade machine for an hour and gave up because it was too complicated. I was like, I'll just wait for Hollandry to write it because I can't do I can't do this, like it's so complicated on how to make that work.
Yeah, and you know we'll see because they are going to need multiple teams, I think, and a team like the Jazz with clean books to absorb somebody's contract and if you're the Jazz, You're in a good spot because it's kind of like when they you know, it's funny for I'm not knocking on anybody, but if you don't follow the league and you get this learn on your phone, like the Jazz traded for Russell Westbrook, you kind of scratch your head and you go, what are we doing?
But they also did it with Derek Rose. So maybe the Jazz.
Could be involved in a deal where a name comes here and the Jazz also say, hey, if we're gonna do this, you have to send us now a pick, right, We're not just taking them. And so the Jazz actually are in a decent spot to maybe stay involved in a complicated transaction like that that is going to need multiple teams with multiple different optionality.
There you go, absolutely, yeah, but a lot of optionality for sure. But yeah, I mean that's what it is, right, Like I think you're going to see teams like Detroit, Toronto, Utah. Obviously you're going to see teams really try to get in on this deal to get a pick out of it, right, And it's why you have the flexibility, it's why you have the optionality of all these situations. If you're those teams. It's because the smart ones, the smart front offices, find a way to get in on these big deals and
they get a pick out of it. And sometimes it's meaningful and sometimes it's not. But why wouldn't you if you have that flexibility.
But in addition to optionality, Zach did, Phoenix, just y'all also give themselves more bites at the Apple.
I mean, if you were talking about a front office in a in an ownership group that was looking for, you know, different different modes of how they could go different bites of the Apple as you said, like sure, but I don't see like that's they've got a singular focus here. It's like they've got to get rid of they want to get rid of Nurk. I thought they made a really good trade for Nick Richards, like that was a nice pickup. And so they've got a little
bit better at big Man. But this is you know, this is a Sun team that they are focused on Jimmy Butler, and that is from now until February sixth, that is what they're trying to do.
Who else is out there outside of Butler?
In your mind that is gettable and could actually make a team better any other hypothetical trade you're hearing about.
Yeah, I mean I think I think the next name after that, I think people would assume, like, oh, Brandon, I think all that brandon ingram stuff just completely cooled off. And and maybe New Orleans is thinking is trying to find a way to retain him for you know, much cheaper than what he was hoping to get. I would say the next big name is Cam Johnson. So like Cam Johnson, Like, there are teams after Cam Johnson right now.
There are multiple teams, multiple contenders, teams that are trying to be contenders that look at him as all right, let's put this dude at the three or the four. He's a solid enough defender, he can really shoot the ball, he can you know, do a little bit off the dribble. Like, I think he's the other name that is, like, if Jimmy doesn't get traded, I think that's probably the biggest or best player that gets moved.
What because we were talking about this earlier and it was actually your buddy Haberstrow a couple of weeks ago who dropped the uh because that was you.
Know around here.
The conversation continues, like, Hey, how long until they're serious about winning.
How long until they're decent?
And when you look at what Philly did when they you know, did the whole trust the process of Sam.
Hinkey, it took them five years and a lot of.
Misses until they got the luck they need and match that luck with the right player and that was mb'd and you know so so ultimately we are here in Sault Lake City, year two, you know, year three, we're two and a half years into this thing. It is five years a reasonable It's just it's such a depressing thing to say a microphone high.
It really is a long time.
Yeah, it's depressing to say that in a microphone. But is that kind of like the ride? Do you think this fan base is in for generally speaking?
No, because I do think there's a point where you had like that, that kinky thing was so one, so hated around the NBA that I don't know that you can sell that a second time, no matter what the market is, Like, I just don't think you can of just being so overt about it. Also, like I don't think Danny has that in him, right, I don't think I don't think Justin Zannik has it in him. I
don't think like five years a long time. I think the difference too in those is the Jazz up until this year, the previous two years, like that was a pretty decent team, right they weren't out, they weren't and so they weren't in this process of two and a half years right now in which they're getting high lottery picks and then seeing, all right, is this guy going to be a star, like they they didn't fully commit
to it. So maybe you get that this year and next year maybe, but I like, even then, I wouldn't expect next year to go that way. I think if they get a guy, if they get like say they get the number one pick, they get Cooper Flag, I think from there they're trying to build exponentially after that, because that just seems like that's that's how that's how Danny Ainge runs teams.
Yeah, and to your point, I mean, in twenty thirty one, when the Jazz get this Phoenix unprotected pick, I'm not sure Danny's like grinding. And you know, honestly, Zach, I really and I'm not trying to, you know, speak on
something I'm not familiar with. It just it just feels like Xanik is the guy that's really, you know, doing the grinding day to day, and he kind of loops Danny in probably oftentimes on a zoom call when he's making the turn at Riverside Country Club and he's like, Hey, what what.
Do you think about this?
And and so ultimately, you know, I don't know what this front office looks like five or six years down the road.
You know.
Ryan Smith often talks about playing the long game, and the long game probably is what you know, the only option is in order to get the right players and enough talent to compete with the best teams in pro basketball. But if they do finally, because the Jazz have been in the lottery nine times, they've never moved on. So if they finally get the luck they need and they snag Cooper Flag, and next year your front court is Walker Kessler, Lowry Markenen, and Cooper Flag. First of all,
congratulations to this fan base for several reasons. Second of all, Second of all, that week they've landed on the one option they were looking for. That building will be sold out every night, I can.
Promise you that.
But then you finally can say, all right, okay, you know I think the fan base certainly would welcome a situation like that because it is something tangible, Zach, and fans just need something tangible at times, and it's been a long time here since something really tangible is kind of at play.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean that is that solves the problem of what is this supposed to be? Right? If that happens,
that solves that problem. And to your point, like like, this is just me guessing, but as you know, an educated guest, like my guess is the like it's a shared vision between Danny and Justin, Right, I think Danny's got maybe the grander form of it, and then it's and then Justin's just like, all right, well this is my part of the vision and I'm gonna go, yeah, do that day to day stuff they like grind it out right to like, yeah, I don't think Danny's in
their crunching spreadsheets and everything, Like, I don't think that's happy. But I think that's the vision for both of them is once you get that guy, like if they get Cooper flag from there, you know how easy that is to sell this plan to the fan base of like, hey, we got the guy, and we've got these other players
and now everything starts to fit in. Now those players you were getting with the ninth and thirteenth and twenty whatever picks over the last couple of years, they start to fit in around that number one guy, because that's that's what the whole point of this is. Have these Like the point of you know, drafting these guys is you just can't miss. If you get nothing but rotation players for the next ten years and all these picks, that's a that's a success, right, Like you want the
number one guy, you want that top dude. But if you can just never miss you always have these these guys, then guess what it does. It creates optionality for you in any trades or any future rotation building for them, and so like that that's the that's the key that they've been doing. I think they've done a good job
of that in the draft too. Like I don't know how many guys, you know, obviously, other than Taylor Hendricks because of that injury, I don't know how many guys you look at and you're just like, yeah, this dude has no chance of contributing down the road.
Yeah, Danny Ands, Michael Scott and Justin zanik Is, Jim Halpert. It's day to day versus big picture.
That's just that's just kind of the deal, all right, Jazz play okay, see tonight, And I think it might be time and maybe pastime to just be like, yep, there is one team that is head and shoulders above everybody else in the West. And your buddy Habershawn on Monday of this week outlines very in great detail as Tom does, how he believes there's a level that they haven't even approached.
And you know, when you look at their net, it's historic.
Houston's the second place team in the West and they're seven games back, So two parter is it time just to say yet?
Like, yep, we thought there was gonna be a lot of parody, there's.
Not because they're you know, okase, he's that good and you agree with Tom that they have another level that they haven't even found yet.
I do agree that they have another level, right Like, I mean, they've been doing all this pretty much without chat Holgeren. He's at worst their third best player, right like, because I think Jalen Williams is exceptional, so he's at worst the third best player. They might be adding their second best player into the mix however you want to, you know, kind of parse that out, but you know,
there is a lot more that they can do, especially offensively. Defensively, they're they're just unbelievable how they're playing defense every night
in the night out. But there is the level. But I'm I'm not sold on the idea that it's them and then everybody else in the left because a healthy Mavericks team, you know, they got better this offseason, they you know, and so the Thunder, but they beat them pretty pretty soundly in the postseason, right, Like, this is still a they have some experience under the belt now, but this is still a very inexperienced playoff team when
it comes to the Thunder. So I would think a healthy Dallas team and they're like, look, they've been playing better lately. Do you have an answer for Jokic? Like, I know how those regular season games have gone, but if you get into the playoffs and that team's healthy and it's hey, Chett and Isaiah, you guys got to go stop Jokic? Are you confident that that's going to happen? Like, I still think there's something with Denver there as well.
Do you think Denver does anything because look, they have found a little something with this starting lineup. But look, I've you know, my idea with Westbrook, it hasn't changed in a long time. Like you can have him and if you want to win four times and seven tries against a team in the postseason. I just don't believe he's going to shoot forty three percent from three like he has over the past ten games.
But it's worked for now.
As we approach February six you think Denver's and look, obviously that ownership group does not want want to add payroll because they've done nothing but jed good players over the past couple of years. But do you feel like, because they have the best player on the planet, they know they have a shot, so let's add a piece or two.
Prior to February sixth, Yeah, I.
Mean, you know, Tony Jones did some interesting reporting. Maybe like I guess this is like a month a month and a half ago, but you know, I think it was him and Sam Amic for US. You know, reported like some interest in moving Michael Porter Junior for Zack Lavine, right, And I think on the surface, like why would you do that? But you look at it, you know, Michael Porter junior is whatever. He's a super talented player. I don't think he's very reliable. I wouldn't want him on
on defense. I don't care what Denver media is saying, like, oh he's really improved. Everyone's going at that dude right now. Zack Labeen isn't exactly a better defender, but he's a more consistent offensive player. And I do think that there's some idea to what if you swap those two out and whatever that's going to happen, does that make Denver more potent offensively if they're going to be the same defensively.
I do think there's something to that, But that is adding payroll, that is you know, probably hurting there already thin depth because of making contracts work and matching everything up, and so I don't ultimately think they do anything. Maybe they try to get somebody on the buyout market, but I think with the way that they've been playing, Jamal
Mertt looks great. Russell Westbrook, you know, I'm with you on that stuff, but like you know, he has kind of found his role with that team, and at least for now it looks it looks pretty sound. And then there's just like you got Yokic playing the best basketball of his career, which is saying something. And I just I think that they look at this recent stretch and probably say, why would we want to disrupt what's happening right now? Look at what's happening.
Before I set you loose, I'm not gonna ask you about the Cavs again. We revisit that every week, and I think most people still believe it's the Celtics conference to lose, and the Knicks continue to kind of stick around.
But has Milwaukee.
Because look, man, every time I lock in on a Bucks game and Yannis does the honest thing, I'm like, we have to talk about Milwaukee kind of the same way we talk about Denver, only because we've seen Giannis do it before and they're they've been better. As of way, what are you willing to say about their chances this year? And I know you're a huge Doc Rivers guy, so go ahead.
Yeah. I just man, I who's their fourth best player? Is it brook I mean, do you count can you count on Middleton to be available? So like that, I mean that's the thing, Like, no, you know, Brooks had a good, a good career and he's been really good in Milwaukee for his role. I just don't know how much you can keep counting on that, I mean, fifth
best player, sixth best player. Like, it's such a thin roster and such a thin rotation, and so I don't know, Like, let's say they do move Middleton and they bring Bradley Beal in in this you know, very complicated deal. It's a name, it's a guy who will probably be on the court more than Middleton will is it a reliable guy Like I just I think that if you could convince me that Chris Middleton is going to be healthy and and they're going to be whole for the playoffs, yeah,
I can see it. I don't think it's ridiculous to to, you know, kind of guess that they could. They could upset people and surprise people, because the honest is that good. And we've seen Dame do a lot, a lot of cool stuff in the postseason. But I just I don't think they're on the level of the Knicks. I definitely don't think they're on the level of the Celtics, and in the in the Cavs, and I'm not sure they're on the level of a healthy magic team.
All right, Zach appreciate the time. Man, good stuff. Have a great week and weekend with chat soon.
Hey, just anytime you need me next week, I've got optionality for you.
Optionality.
I'll i'll order send you a bunch of times which gives you a lot of bites at the Apple.
Okay, Dolly, appreciate it.
Zach Harper he writes the NBA Power rankings and trade primers for the athletic and has a bunch of different podcasts going on.
He's a hard working dude.
Get him on social media at Talk Hoops is where you find him. Jazz made a trade with the Suns as we were signing off last night, so broke that one down with Zach. We're gonna bring in Neil Smith coming up our weekly conversation with Neil or we'll talk some NHL and some Utah Hockey Club. They're off tonight, but they're back in action tomorrow against me Minnesota. Before we catch break, I want to tell you about my friends at Prize Picks. It is the best place to
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Use the promo code ESPN seven hundred to get fifty dollars instantly after you play your first five dollars lineup. Download the Prize Picks app today use the promo code ESPN seven hundred to get fifty dollars instantly after you play your first five dollars lineup. Prize Picks run your game all season long. All right, Neil Smith's gonna join us, coming up next, and then we will bid you good afternoon for Utah basketball against Houston. Gonna be a tough,
tough task for Craig and that team. We'll have to see how it goes.
We got a.
Busy afternoon and busy evening on the radio station. We're we're about to say good afternoon to you in just about twenty minutes or so as the Utah men's basketball team take on the Houston Cougars. Houston's a national championship contender, so Craig and his team are gonna have a tough task. And then after that Utah women welcome in Kansas to the Huntsman Center tonight here in Salt Lake City. The Jazz are off Utah Hockey Club. No excuse me, the
Jazz are playing the Thunder. It's the hockey club who are off. But they want a couple of home games before hitting the road to take on the while our next guest joins us on a weekly basis to talk a little hockey. It is Neil Smith on a Wednesday afternoon. Neil, Happy Wednesday, Sir, how.
Are you good?
Good Spence? How you doing?
I'm good, I'm good.
Before we get to the Utah Hockey Club, I wanted to ask you so, Alex Ovechkin is about to break Wayne Gretzky's career goal record, which is a record, Neil that I think most people believed was extremely safe. I wanted you to give our audience and context because we always talk about who the goat is in this sport or that sport or what have you, and it feels like the one sport where there is no debate is hockey?
Right?
How big is the gap between Wayne Gretzky and whoever else would be second on your list as far as the greatest hockey player ever?
I think it's quite a bit. And it depends whether you're talking about all offense or guys that have changed the game like Bobby Orr or people like Gordie Howe that we're going to totally different era. But I think if you're if you want to talk about dominating, just total domination of the game, you got to go to Gretzky. Nobody has dominated the game offensively like he did for all those years in Edmonton and then in LA for
quite a number of years. I remember being at a game in Hartford, Edmonton in Hartford, and I wrote on my report, I said, it's just not fair. Every time he gets on the ice, they've got two or four scoring chances, like the other team has no chance. And it was like a man with all boys. He just a just an unbelievable thing. I'm glad that I lived in that era to watch him.
So Igor Schusterkin tried to fight Brady Kachuk during the Rangers win and it didn't go well. Neil, First of all, why would you do that, because you can't drop your gloves and are there unwritten rules out there for hockey players, like dude, don't punch, don't punch the goalie like it seemed like an odd move by your starking.
To me, Yeah, well it was. And there's no reason for a guy that's that important to his team. I don't. I guess he's got a temper like we all do. But Brady Kachuck is going to get under everybody's skin. That's what he does. He's a He's a unicorn of a player. He's a very special player. He's very talented. He to put it in context of when you were a kid watching those Ranger teams. He's got a fatique and in him and got a little bit of Messy in him. So he's got both things. He you know,
mess wasn't the irritating guy. Mes could just take care of business. Brady Kulchuck just drives you nuts, sort of like his brother does in Florida.
How many him like his dad did? Right, isn't he keys kid?
Yeah? He's Keith Boy and Keith was a big power forward and those two hanging around locker rooms their whole childhood. I guess is rubbed off the right way because they're both great players.
Yeah, there are.
How is so Liam O'Brien here for the Uta Hockey Club, Spicy Tuna as he's known to the fan base. He's a very popular player here. He got in a fight with the Blues player. He got his clock cleaned and blood was spilling down his face and he skated off the ice to a rounding or I should say, a rousing round of applause from the fan base, and the
hockey club actually scored three goals right after that. How are the fighters on each team like established, because it seems like the fighter on this team seems to be Liam O'Brien.
Yeah, he's very tough guy. If you know, it's not like the old base where there was real fighting. This is scrapping, but it's you know, everybody's got a shield on so you're not in a helmet, so you're not getting in many blows. And mostly it's takedowns. You know,
whoever goes down the other guy won. But there is there is sometimes when you get get some you know, some punches in there, and it's well established in in the pecking order that the management will look to have at least one or two guys in their lineup or that can go in their lineup that can deter any kind of liberties that another team might try to take with your team.
Who was when you were running clubs?
Who was I'll say the most feared dude, Like as far as the fighter, where you're like, don't mess with that guy because he might kill you. Who was the best, like most feared fighter? Around pro hockey back then.
We I'll name a number of them. I mean, I think that they were Bob Probert Joe Koser, both played for Detroit for a long time and then enjoying won the Cup with us in ninety four. Ty Domi was a guy that was just crazy enough that he'd take on anybody, and he wasn't very big for that era. I got to put those three. There's a couple of guys in Saint Louis. Kelly Chase was pretty darn tough, and you know every team had one, but I'd say the most feared guys were Bob Probert and Joey Koser.
How are fights used, as far as if they're used at all when it comes to the strategy, because like I said, the hockey club really responded to our guy, Spicy Tuna getting his clock cleaned. Is it a real thing where you know a coach will point to the tough guy, the fighter and say, okay, you know, go scrap a little bit.
We need we need our guys to get motivated.
And they don't have to say that to that guy. I mean, they're usually fourth line players and when you put them out on the ice and you're going against the other fourth line, and the other fourth line also
has a tough guy. A lot of times they look at each other and go, Okay, we know what's going to happen here, because the game is at a point where you know that's going to perhaps give an edge to one team or the other based upon the adrenaline rush of you know, your your goliath beating their galane or whatever it's And as I said, Spencer's very little of it today as opposed to you know, in the nineties or early two thousands, but there's still there's still
some of it in there. The problem is is that if usually really tough guys aren't great players, and so if you can't skate today, you can't play in the league. You've got to be a real good skater to be able to play in the league. And some usually those guys weren't the greatest skaters.
One more R five question.
I don't know why it's on the mind today, just a bunch of highlights, I suppose, but I'm genuinely curious, Like Wayne Gretzky never fought, and it seems like a lot of the I mean of Vegkins a pretty tough kid.
There's no doubt about that.
But are there like unwritten hockey rules, Like Clayton Keller first line Utah forward, would a team send their tough guy after him? Or it's that's like, no, he's a little dude who doesn't fight leave alone.
Yeah, they wouldn't send a tough guy after him to fight him, but they for what would happen if the other team ran Keller into the boards or gave him a dirty check or hit from behind, or stuck a knee out or anything that might hurt him. The rest of the team will come to his defense and jump
the guy. We had it happen. I was at a game of the Islanders in Philadelphia and Siplikoff of the Islanders through a head check, meaning a shoulder to a head of paling on Philadelphia, and boy, the Philadelphia Flyers just all jumped him all at once, trying to pay him back. They weren't able to do it, but he was suspended for three games for the hit. You still get that in hockey if your teammates are supposed to jump in and have your back.
So Clayton Kellery got hit by a puck against Winnipeg and came back with this massive shiner and actually scored a goal in Utah's win.
Have you ever been hit by a puck that does not feel good?
No, it does not feel good, or getting hit even by a stick, but getting hit by a puck, by a shot that can knock you out. And so he's that's a typical hockey player. They'll come back and play even though you've you know, you've taken a few stitches during the game.
So Utah Hockey Club hits the road, and you and I discussed this. They had this seven game homestand that's now behind them, and they went three and four, so could be worse, but we were hoping for more home results. Before you move on to what's next, what do you make of the homestand that we just saw with the Utah Hockey Club.
Well, I think it's great that they beat Saint Louis, and I think it's fantastic that they were able to beat the Winnipeg Jets, And you and I have talked about it in finitem on here. You know, anytime you can put back to back wins together, that sends you
into Minnesota with a pretty good feeling. And I'm sure today they traveled to Minnesota altogether, and they've got to do a back to back two games in on your forty eight hours when they play Minnesota and then go nor and play Winnipeg the next night in Winnipeg, and then of course after that they get a day off, but they got to fly all the way to Ottawa, Ontario and have an afternoon game with the Ottawa Senator.
So you know, they've got a tough three games coming up, three games in four nights, but they're coming off with two wins and that should be good news. They're going in there knowing they can beat teams, and they know they could beat the Winnipeg Chets, which they did on Monday night.
And they're a good road team.
Unfortunately tied with both Vancouver and San Jose for the worst home record as far as wins, all three of those teams have eight, but twelve wins on the road. You know, that's a good solid road record. Nobody in the Pacific has twelve wins on the road. The Vegas
Knights have eleven. But ultimately, as we come to this point of the season, Neil, We're used to the basketball grind around here, and this is the time of year where it's like, all right, we're pretty much halfway through the NBA season, and in pro basketball, this is the time where I think a lot of the guys look around and say, I need a bit of a break from you. I need to go somewhere for a while. Whether it's players, whether it's coaches, whether it's the front office,
whether it's staff members, whether it's broadcasters. What's the grind like this time of year in pro hockey. What's the challenge to keep these players motivated?
You know, it's February where there's a February sort of blues. It's the month that's not quite close enough to the playoffs and far enough away from the beginning and the standing seems settled in. But this year, because of the four Nations face off that they're going to have pitting Swedish players versus Finnish players, versus Canadians versus Americans, they are going to get some time off here and that's going to be in that fourth week of third fourth
week of February. There's going to be some time off for anybody who's not playing in that tournament, which is the majority of the league, of course, so maybe that will restart their engines. But it's typical Spence. This is the time of year in February where everybody you know, you know, you sort of got the blues. It's just a.
Grind, it sure is.
And before I set you loose for today, we'll say Utah Hockey Club halfway through the year, the Neil Smith you can give us a letter grade, you can rank them one through ten. Now that we have pretty much at the season, what do you have to say about the way the hockey club has played so far and maybe a message of hope for the second half of the year.
Well, I'm hopeful for the second half of the year with them. But I think they are where I thought they'd be, which is just over five hundred NHL five hundred, and they're in the discussion to make the wild card spot. They're not out of that discussion, they're in it. They're only a minus seven on total goal differential from goalscoring
goals against. The home record is the dark spot for them, because if they'd just gone five hundred, that would give them three more wins and they'd be well into the wild card discussion. But you know what, I think they have a good second half. There's no reason why they can't, you know, be competing, as they said, for that eighth or seventh spot. And I great for them so far.
I'd say I'd say a B because they haven't been spectacular, but they've been good for moving out of Arizona, coming to a new city, coming to a new town, a new arena, new fans, and they're where they're where I thought they would be. And so I give them a bee for.
Doing that, Neil.
Where in our new hockey fans around Hockeytown, USA, that's what I'm calling salt Lake. I'll due respect to Detroit. Where can they go? Where can they go? Find your pod?
Any any any podcast platform, Apple, Spotify, any of them out there, YouTube and please just subscribe, and we need to get as many downloads as we can because that's the game in the podcast world. But I think, I don't think, I know. If you listen to a podcast, you will learn things. We have tremendous guests, and it may not be as polished as Spence check its, we're pretty close.
I don't know about that, and I don't know about that, Neil, but I do appreciate your time because we learn every time you're on this show, so have a great week.
Admal chat soon.
I look forward to it.
I Neil Smith, former general manager of the New York Rangers, New York Islanders, high level scout for the Detroit Red Wings Detroit is Hockey Town, USA. Of course I could so appreciate Neil's time. I just don't understand why, if you're a goalie you decide to fight when you literally can't drop your gloves like this, I'll call it a
highlight video of Igor Shustarkin trying to fight Kachuk. Like, he skates over there and Kachuk looks at him, then just punches him squarely in the face and he's like, what are you doing?
You could barely move, but you're trying to throw down. I kind of respect it, though you look like a Decepticon or something walking around like a a goalie with those big pads on. You're probably not gonna take much damage either, so why not?
Yeah, I guess you can respect it because you're literally skating over to a player knowing you were about to be punched right in the face and you can't do anything about it. Yeah, you either respect or you're like, what are you doing this?
Will not end well, not ideal, not ideal strategy.
But hey, it's it's hockey. That's what we're here for. Indeed, we are here for it, all right. Utah men's basketball coming up. On the other side, Utah takes on Houston. The Utes are a seventeen point five point underdog, and that actually moved down. It opened up with Houston favored by eighteen point five points. After Utah Houston, you're gonna hear the Utah women take on Kansas here in Salt Lake City. Houston is really really good. There's your analysis
for the for the game coming up. Houston is a national championship contender. They have players that have played in the program for a number of years, They have a few transfers, and they are undefeated in conference. They trounced Brigham Young at their place eighty six fifty five smoke TC.
They beat k State by thirty. They beat West Virginia by twenty six.
They are coming off a close win at UCF sixty nine to sixty eight. But in non conference they took number nine Alabama right down to the stretch. Bama is one of the best teams in the country. Auburn number one team in the country. Houston played them, lost by five. They're one loss right now. That kind of stings them. San Diego State's a good team, but they went to
San Diego State and they lost Houston fourteen and three. Overall, they're six and zero in conference play and the Utes trying to ride momentum after that win over Brigham Young here and saw Lake over the weekend. They've won three straight games and they're three and three in Big Twelve play after being beating ok State, TCU, and BYU following that four game losing streak.
So we'll see if you talk and keep it up.
I'm not expecting the Utes to win this game, but a good showing, keep it close down the stretch, and I think that's something that this team can fly home with some confidence for before taking on Baylor coming up in just three days on Saturday, a couple of home games. It's Baylor then at Cincinnati before hitting the road at
Okay State. All right, Porter, let's get out of here, but before we say good afternoon for Bill Riley, Sean Mooney and Utah men's basketball will comes our way on a Thursday edition of the show.
Yeah you mentioned it. A double header on the hoop side, following us here in a moment. But tomorrow on the show, we'll talk some college hoops. Ken Palmeroy he's going to join the program. I believe it's going to be in studios. We may spend an hour with one Ken paum Amy Donaldson. We'll stop by the program. Tim McMahon stops by the program, and depending on who's in the studio, who's not, what time we have, we'll probably try to get an NFL guest to talk some playoffs as well.
Good stuff. It did become official.
Rayl saw Lake has transferred Gavin Beavers onto a Dutch club after signing Rafael Cabral, the Brazilian keeper who probably will start for the soccer club. All right, well say good night, special thank you today Zach Harper and Neil Smith. If you missed any of it, go to the website, check on our podcast page and download our app.