All right, what's going on?
Drive time on a Wednesday afternoon, looking at about thirteen minutes past the hour of two o'clock Satay, shine, You have a little sunshine here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. It's a little warm for a January Wednesday. We've got cold weather and snowstorms ahead coming up this weekend. Not halfway through January, about halfway through your work week, and well not about you are and one day closer to the weekend. But as it is every single day, it's
gonna have you along for the ride. Spence Jackets beyond the mic. That's Porter Larsen behind the glass today. We got a good guest list man. We got a lot to do on the program. Some more takeaways from the comments yesterday from the Utah football coaching staff. We'll get to some college football as we're five days away from the national championship game. It's Notre Dame, it's Ohio State, So excited for that game.
Get into some of that on the program today.
So a lot of people I've been interested, certainly in following which pieces of the Utah coaching staff comments yesterday garnered the most responses. Froblem the general public waiting to kind of hear from coach went on a number of different things in Morgan Scalley on a number of different things, So we'll react to.
Some of that today.
There are six openings in Pro football as of right now, the Bears, the Cowboys, Jacksonville, the Raiders, the Saints, and the hapless and hopeless New York Football Jets.
Reports are today.
Mike McCarthy is interviewing as we speak with Chicago, which I perceived to be potentially the best job on the market, simply because I think Caleb is going to be a really good quarterback. I know a lot of people around here disagree, but when you look at the other situations, there are either horrible quarterbacks or overpaid quarterbacks like Dak. I don't know if I'm completely done with Trevor Lawrence, but anyway, any NFL coaching news that drops today, we
will bring it to you. The Utah men's basketball team is in action tonight at TCU, a TCU team that beat BYU last week. B YU by the way, last night with a they smoked Oklahoma State. Now Utah ued Oklahoma State up here, So Oklahoma State probably not excited about ever coming back to Utah butt eighty five to sixty nine. Kevin Young made some rotation adjustments, so we will do some college basketball in the show today. It is that time of year as we are inching closer
and closer tomorrow. Sch halfway through January, was in the building last night for the Utah Hockey Club's lost to the Montreal Canadians. Fun time, though Man hockey one of the best spectator sports. Utah Hockey clubs now eighteen eighteen and seven. They're exactly five hundred. Kirby Datch had a couple of goals last night. The Montreal Canadians got to win five to three. And I'm shaking myhead as I say this, but Utah Hockey Club welcome in the New
York Rangers coming up tomorrow. The Rangers are already in town. They're staying at the Grand America. They've been walking around. You can see guys with Ranger gears. So we'll do a little hockey club on the show today. The Utah Jazz back at action tonight against the Charlotte's Hornets. Jazz have been a lot more competitive as of late. We'll
see if that continues. Keep you up to date on the injury list who you may or may not see tonight at the Delta Center seven o'clock tip against the Hornets. The Jazz schedule is really softening up. They've got some of the worst teams in the NBA on the docket and we'll see how they fare. The NBA has are scheduled nine games as a result of both fire and ice. No, that is not a Game of Thrones joke. That's a
real thing. Obviously, the horrific fires in Los Angeles, some inclement weather throughout the course of the country, so the NBA has had to reschedule a ton of games. One eye ahead, of course right now to the NFL playoff weekend ahead after a really fun wild card weekend.
A lot of people.
Believe the Divisional round is the best playoff weekend in Pro football. Texans Chiefs Commander Lions on Saturday, and then Sunday Tilt Rams Eagles, then the Ravens and the Bills. Man, that's gonna be a heavyweight bout. So fun time of year, a little bit of everything going on. RSL has opened up training camp and preparation for their Conky Calf match coming up in just a matter of weeks. There are some player personnel pieces of news we'll get to today.
It's not just RSL, you know, sending players away. They are making additions. I don't know what it's going to look like, and you know it's kind of odd that they've decided to go this route. But we'll learn a little bit more today on the program. So our guest list will go like this. Neil Smith, former general manager of the New York Rangers, will stop by to talk some Utah Hockey Club and some pro hockey. We'll get
ready for the Utah Hockey Club Rangers game tomorrow. We'll talk about the Canadians game last night, and just big picture topics regarding the National Hockey League.
With one of our favorites, Neil Smith.
They'll voice himself Bill Riley sopspot today to talk some Utah football and some Utah basketball. NBA Daily Assists with Tom Havers show, and you know I'm going to bring up the jazz trading for Zion Williamson. We basically made the jazz interesting and relevant on the show yesterday in case you missed it.
So we'll bring in Tom today and.
Then Kurt Schmidt, the technical director for Ral Saw Lake, the mind behind all of these moves. The man who essentially makes the final call for player personnel will be my guest later on. So a little Utah Hockey Club, a little Utah football, you little college basketball, UT's Cougars,
some jazz, some NBA, and then some RSL. We got a bit of everything for you guys on the program today on this Wednesday afternoon with Neil Smith, with Bill Riley, with Tom Haberstrow, with Kurt Schmidt, Me Spence checkets, all of you the great listeners, Happy Wednesday, and that guy Porter Larson who produced the program on a Wednesday afternoon. So now that you've had a minute to allow the genius of the radio show yesterday to kind of marinate.
And Zion Williamson where we've named half the date after him anyway, jazz trading for Zion. Do you have any new hot takes or fun thoughts for me on this Wednesday.
I'm still I'm still kind of ruminating on that one. On the Zion stuff. Hey, it'll be fun. It'd be fun. I don't know, uh, you know how fruitful it would be, but it would be fun.
Well, we'll see, probably not gonna happen. But just trying to make it relevant is the bottom line. Our first guest today will be Neil Smith, so was at the hockey game last night and the Rangers in town tomorrow. Before we get to Neil, I want to let you know that the ESPN seven hundred Cash Kickoffice here. It's time for your shot to win one thousand dollars in cash to pay your bills. Text one thousand to five
oh eight seven seven seven one thousand. Text one thousand to five oh eight seven seven one thousand for a chance to win one thousand dollars in cash in this nationwide contest. Good luck from all of us here at ESPN, courtesy of our friends a Standard Restaurants supplying one stop shop for all your tailgate needs. On a Wednesday afternoon, it is time out for your opening tip.
Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check. It's on Utah's number one sports talk. Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene.
For the show.
One thing tip of the Drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurant Supply, your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurant Supply thirty five hundred Southwest Temple.
Good to hear from Coach Wit yesterday. Good to hear from Ordnon Scalley. Good here from Jason Beck. They did a little media, of course, we played those comments for you here on your home of the Utes. And I've been interested to follow the news cycle surrounding the comments of all the coaches, head coach, offensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, and a couple of things that stood out to me, and number one topically only because we've all
been curious. It feels like the number one story that people have kind of latched onto is that Cam Rising is not on the roster, and Cam is going to announce his intention when he elects to do so, according to Coach Wit. So of course we'll be curious to hear what's next for Camon Rising, who, as I talked about yesterday, should always be remembered as nothing but a legend around here, and I do think most people already
believe that's the case. And in due time, after I guess the bad taste in your mouth wears off because of the past couple of years where the poor kids just couldn't stay healthy, I would imagine he'll be remembered the right way. But you know, there's been a little bit of a theme on the show regarding college football, and really we can expand it to several of our
local products right now. The first time you do something, the first time you experience something sports or life, just it's new and it's hard to accept and it takes a lot of time to really understand exactly how to traverse your way through the space.
So just new experiences.
And you know, for the Utah Jazz, it is new for jazz fans to really have already had two and a half years of a rebuild that hasn't bred anything all that exciting, and other than lowry marketing, Walker Castle and a bevy of picks, we still don't know if any of these young kids are going to be around. Moments from Kyante, moments from Bryce.
Isaiah has been.
Good as of late, but ultimately none of us know if any of these young players will be around when the Jazz are good again.
So a new situation right for jazz fans.
And I do think there are basketball fans in this market that are very, very intelligent, and jazz fans love the Utah Jazz. So the building's been full and I think people more or less understand the deal, understand what time it is. New situation for Jazz fans, new situation of course for college football fans. That really has been new now for a couple of years. But some of
the things still land like they're very, very raw. Right, And basically what I'm talking about is coach Wait, yesterday was asked for the first time publicly about the exits of Kiano Tanavasa and Cameron Calhoun. Right, the two players that if you're a YOUTE fan picking up your phone to check you know, alerts about who's leaving, who's who's coming, who's going, who's.
Stand what have you?
Those two names hit and they hit different, and they hit hard because both those players are NFL guys.
They're both going to play on Sunday.
And you add on to the fact that Kanu went to BYU. I mean, look, Cam Calhoun is in Tuscalusive playing for Alabama, essentially the charter college football program in the country. Even though right now they're not one of the top, they still you know, over the past generation on a Nick Saban they have been kind of the
Bill Belichick Patriots version of college football. But ultimately, when coach Witt said yesterday that the main difference, essentially eluding that the only difference when it comes to these departures. His exact term, I believe is the overriding factor in their decisions to leave was nil, namely with Keanu, who
left Utah to go to BYU. When Kyle said that, and I heard him say that, I went, that's probably not going to land very well for fans that are upset about the current narrative that Brigham Young has figured out things where their collective, the Utah still has to figure out. Now, we don't have any hard daddy here. We can only go off the proof, and we can
go off results. And right now we're coming off a year in the Big Twelve where BYU shocked everybody and then they nearly won the thing and Utah was picked to win the thing and they picked near the bottom. And the new cycle over the past six weeks has been BYU signs the best high school basketball player in the country. He's gonna get seven mil for five months of basketball, and Utah basketball is just not up to
part right now, and hopefully that could change. But the reaction to what Kyle said yesterday about the overriding factor being nil. I think disappointed a lot of people, And
of course I'm not saying Kyle's wrong. A lot of people wondered, based off of the messaging from Keanu and his family, if he simply wanted the LDS BYU experience talking about wanting to become the best version of himself and that's the place he could do it, releasing a scripture announcing his intent, his father's saying, then when the
heaven's open, our family walks through the door. So a lot of people were like, Okay, he just one of me any players who over the years and currently wants that experience compared to other experiences, And yes, you can have an LDS experience at the University of Utah, but if you've been around here or if you're familiar with the dynamic, the BYU experience just is different.
If it's for you or not you. If it's for you or not for you, that's irrelevant.
It is different, and oftentimes kids do want that experience, even though you can get an LDS experience elsewhere. And of course, coach wit Morgan Scalley, they're members of the LDS church, so it's not like they couldn't provide that
pathway for Katu, you know, if you wanted it. But essentially, the bottom line is this to bring it back to all of us experiencing these things for the first time, and whether it's life or sports, when you go through things for the first time, it can be tough to figure out how to get through them.
And then you get older, you get a little leathery and.
You realize life is just not fair and things happen and you better figure out how to wait to deal with it or you're gonna eat yourself alive. The bottom line is this, the new reality of college football is simply losing really good players every single year and there are no exceptions, and so as college football fans, I think it's time we just lean into it and you know it does it sting when it happens, Yes, that's the deal.
But two three years, two three, four years.
Down the road, I think we're gonna be a little more leathery to this, and I really hope that there are guardrails put in a place that don't mandate teams have to rebuild every year.
That's exhausting, man, it just is.
Because fan bases love to get to know the players that play for the colleges that they support. And as I've talked about a nauseum, yes to Bowl two thousand and four, Sugar Bowl two thousand and eight, back to backpack twelve championships, Utah football's best seasons have simply been as results of recruiting, developing and players sticking around for two three four years.
Right.
And it's not just that they won football games.
I mean, that's the point, and that's why we'll always remember mber them as great, great teams. But you felt like you knew Alex Smith or Eric Weddle or Stevenson Sylvester Robert Johnson.
Or Cameron Rising.
You know, you felt like these kids were part of the fabric of the community. And maybe that's just a little pie in the sky magoo, but it's no longer the reality of how this is going to go, and it's just one of those things you got to lean into, got to accept it. And it's interesting watching and I'll
put myself in this category. We're all going through this for the first time really in nil transfer portal has been a reality for a few years, but it feels like this type of news has stung in a way that news prior to just hasn't really landed the same way. I mean, that's just kind of how I'm reading the situation.
So new things can be tough. Got to figure out a way to get through them, then accept them, and next time they happen, maybe you're not as upset when a player decides a really good player, and a really good kid decides that he wants to play as college ball elsewhere. All right, busy show, We'll do a little Utah Hockey Club tough one. Last night Montreal Canadians came back. Utah Hockey Club had a lead, but Montreal came back to get a win. The Rangers are in town for
a game tomorrow night. Rangers have not been near as good as anybody thought that they were going to be this year.
Maybe the hockey club and get a win.
So Neil Smith joins us are behind the glass weekly NHL Conversation.
On the other side, Mike.
McCarthy is reportedly in Chicago today to interview with the Chicago Bears. After getting out of purgatory and escaping Jerry Jones, my man fell forward.
I'll tell you that. Well, we'll get to it.
There are six job openings in pro football right now. If anything comes down, we'll bring it to you on air. Got a little Utah hoops tonight. We'll get back to some college and pro football. But I was in the building last night kind of shake in my head. I'm like, I cannot believe I'm sitting in Salt Lake City watching
the Montreal Canadians play hockey. Hockey Club goes up early, Montreal comes back, they get a five to three win, and I continue to shake my head as the New York Rangers are in now now walking downtown outside of Grand America to play the game tomorrow. Our next guest was the architect of the Ranger team that won the Stanley Cup in nineteen ninety four.
His name is Neil Smith and he joins US Weekly. Hello Neil, how are you, sir?
I'm good fancy. That must be something to see the fabled Montreal Canadians in Salt Lake City for the first time ever. That's that's quite a franchise.
See that's you're smart.
I'm going to lead off there because I'm you know, the rocket rashard right Like back in the day, Montreal Canadians were kind of like, I don't want to say.
Because you're educated here, you're going to help me understand.
I don't want to say like the first great pro hockey club, but from my vantage point, it feels like they were kind of one of the original dynasties in the NHL for our local hockey fans that went last night and maybe don't fully understand what they were watching. Myself included give us some context about historically just what the Canadians mean to the world of hockey.
Well, here's some trivia for you that I've rarely ever told anyone this or brought this up, But the Montreal Canadians actually came into the league in nineteen seventeen, the first year of the NHL. AD switched from the National Hockey Association to the National Hockey League, and it was made up of only four teams, and they were called the Montreal Canadians and Montreal Wanderers, the Toronto Arenas and the Ottawa Senators. And the Wanderers building burnt down in
the first season, so there was only three teams. So when we talked about the original six, we actually should be talking about the original three. But Montreal has twenty four Stanley Cups in their history. By far, the most of any team in the league.
The logo on.
The front of their jersey stands for Canadian Hockey Club, so there's two season an age and they've worn those same uniforms forever. And they were once called the Fling Frenchmen because they got all the best French players from Quebec on the Canadians. But they no longer get that advantage as everyone is in the entry draft together.
And they more or less have been now.
Look, obviously they went through that incredible run in the sixties and the seventies, but eighties as well. But you know, they last won the President's Cup, I believe in seventeen like they have been neil like consistently great now. Their last Stanley Cup I think was what ninety three, so I guess it's been a while, but they have been pretty consistent with their high level of play.
Is that fair to say.
It has up until lately. I mean, they did get into the Stanley Cup final during that bubble time when COVID was around, and they played Tampa in the final, Tampa winning that, but that was an aberration.
Really.
Montreal has been in a rebuild for quite a while and they're right now for this season on a heck of a run and are knocking in the door of a wild card spot in the East. So they're a team that's trying to rebuild, like a lot of teams. And you know, the famous Marty Saint Luis is their coach, who played for Tampa in their Stanley Cup in two thousand and six and was a tremendous player in the National Hockey League.
So the hockey club took a lead after one last night, two to one, and then Montreal came back and outscored them two zero and the second two to one of the third to win five to three. Are these two clubs on kind of similar trajectories you reference the rebuild nature?
Or is Montreal maybe a step two.
Ahead of where the hockey club found themselves out here in Salt Lake.
No, I don't think they're a step or two ahead. I think they're all in this grouping. It's really hard to give it a name, but for lack of better words, I'll say they're all in the middle class. And by the middle class, I mean those teams that are trying to be a contender to be in the playoffs. So the upper class would be the teams that are trying to be a contender to win the Cup. The middle class would be the teams that are trying to contend
and be in the playoffs. And the lower class would be the teams that are totally in a rebuild and know that they're a ways away from pushing for the playoffs. So I think there's the three groups. And I've said to you since I've been coming on here that Utah is in that middle group that will be pushing to try to get that wild card spot, and I expect that they're going to keep clawing away at it for the rest of the season.
One of their themes is they don't hold on to leeds Neil as I reference they were up last night. Is that just another factor of a young team that doesn't know how to handle the success yet because they haven't been there, because it really has been a bit of their theme, like they go up early and oftentimes can't hold on.
To that lead.
I think I think it's a disciplined, mental discipline thing for teams, the younger teams that veterans learn, and that is that you know, once you've got the lead, you don't need to have more than a lead. To win the game, and you can batten down the hatches and try to just protect that lead with a more disciplined play. We talked earlier in the season about them being undisciplined
with the penalties. The younger teams are undisciplined in the fact that they see a chance to get a goal and they go for it, which could train to a scoring chance for the other team. So I think that you know, there are blown leads all over the league. I mean, they're not the only team that doesn't that
those leads. There's a lot of them. My concern spence about them, we talked about this last week, is more about their home record and why they can't get wins at home, with only six wins, which is the least of anybody in the whole league. That's something that's concerning because you've got to, you know, you got to play well in front of your home fans, and you should have an advantage when you play at home.
So unfortunate news is Dylan Gunther, who has had a really good year, actually leads the team with sixteen goals, also has eighteen assists, and he signed that massive eight year contract extension. He has thirty four points, which is third on the team to Clayton Keller and Logan Cooley. But Dylan Gunther is out and definitely the lower body injury. What do you make of this this hole? How does coach Torny handle this? Maybe with some line changes, Yeah, I mean.
It's a tough one. It's hard to replace his defensive ability. A guy can that plays a regular shift, that plays on the power plane, has a hell of a shot. And I believe that I'm correct. He scored the very first Utah Hockey Club goal in history. He's on our guy to replace. He's one of your bright young players. So they'll just have to find their way to get through it and win some games without Dylan in the lineup.
So I don't want to continue to hit this thing over the head, Neo. But you referenced it like they just they do not win at home. They just can't. And I was there last night, had some really good good seats, and I'm always just every time I go to a game, and when you're able to set up close, you're just simply blown away at the size and the speed, the precision, the time and everything that we all love about pro hockey.
But if they don't get this figured out at home.
I mean, at this point they're now as the real time standards are pulled up, there are twelve points behind Colorado for the wild Card, six points beyond Calgary.
So it's not like there's a massive gap there.
But if they can't get it figured out at home, is it tough to expect a wild card postseason birth?
Oh? I think so, And I'm just being honest about that. I mean, Vancouver is struggling. Vancouver and it in first place last year in the Pacific Division and the division that also has the Edmonton Oilers in the Vegas Golden Knights, two pretty good teams. Vancouver ended in first. They're struggling this year and why well, there's seven wins at home that there's seven, eight and six. It's no you know, when you go into Vancouver it should be a tough night.
It hasn't been this year, and Utah is going to have to I develop their identity at home. You know, they're they're they've been good on the road, They've won twelve games on the road, but they've got to figure this thing out at home and be and whether they're nerves, whether they're whether they're taking too many chances when they're at home because they got their you know, their friends
and family watching them. I don't know, but you know what, you want the opposition to come into your building and go, oh, we know we're in for a tough night in here. And right now, I don't think the opposition would be.
Saying that we did get a little good news out this way as John Marino came back, and I've I don't know, I think that's a season debut. I mean, he got eighteen minutes of ice time, which is a good amount for a player that hasn't played in quite some time. You know, one of their consistent themes neils you know about this team is getting back to last year when they were in Arizona. The defense oftentimes asked
the goaltender to stand on his head. And what could potentially a settling effect the return of John Marino have to the blue line group.
Oh, I think it's going to have a tremendous effect on the defense of the team because he's a good player, he's a veteran player, and he'll bring some steadiness to the team. Now, they did do a great move in getting Sergachev in the offseason, Ian Cole is there who's a long time veteran in the league to help out with the younger players, so it's not like they're not
teenagers playing on defense there. But Marino is a good defenseman and will really help steady things and move to Ingram and the Melka more confidence when they're there and not think that they're going to have to stand on their head every night.
All right, Neil, let's move over to the team that is in town right now, walking around downtown outside of their hotel in Grand America and will be playing the Utah Hockey Club tomorrow. And that is the team of my childhood, the New York Rangers, who simply, look, I'm not going to tell you I watch every Ranger game. I just know that last year they were in the mix for potentially something special and it didn't fully work out, and you just pull up the standings and they continue
to struggle. What do you what would you say to the fans here headed to see the Utah Hockey Club play the Rangers about essentially why this team has not lived up to expectations.
Well, they've had a very peculiar season. They started out twelve four and one, a lot of the people that are critics critique the Rangers said that they weren't really as good as that record. But when they did this stuff with Jacob Scruba and traded him, he was the captain, had been the captain for quite a while and really liked and respected by his teammates, things started to turn ugly.
They sent out a message to all the other gms saying that they were trade Crider or Truba, and that got out obviously, and then that sort of put hand grenades into the locker room and they really had a tough time to shake it off. They've played better lately. They're five hundred in their last ten games, but they're
not the team they should have been this season. They're hanging around with the Islanders and the Penguins down you know, in the eighth spot for the wild card, and they should be, you know, easily in the top three in the in their division. In the Metro Division, they won the President's Trophy last year. So it's a disastrous year for the Rangers. They're playing better now. That's not great news for Utah. I wish for Utah they were playing at their worst, but they're not. They've got some guys
for the fans to watch. Ninety three. Savanna jad is a tremendous hockey play ten Panarin. It can light it, light the place up and score a lot of goals. Chris Krider is really good in front of the net number twenty And they've got a defenseman Adam Fox number twenty three, who won the Noris Trophy only a couple of years ago as the best defenseman in the league, combined with probably the best goalie in all of hockey,
eg Or Shasterkin. I don't know if you'll see him or not tomorrow, but he is a treat to watch because he makes some acrobatics saves. So you know, for Utah's sake, you hope that they're having an off night because they do have a lot of talent, but they haven't been living up to that talent as of lately.
So from a tactical standpoint, how do you think the Utah Hockey Club will go about their business of trying to get the win tomorrow?
I mean when they badly need, Like what do the Rangers?
You reference some of their talent, but what makes them dangerous the way I'll ask it, I guess, Neil is what makes them dangerous.
What makes them beatable?
I think, you know, I don't know who's playing goal is Shitsterkin's goal. It's it's really tough because they can live off the fact that they can make mistakes and Shister can can keep them in it. They don't have a great defense right now. They don't, they're not. That's I would say that's their weakest spot. So if Utah can get the early goal on them and and you know, and then protect it and build on it, that would
be one thing. Uh. You know, they're not great defensively, they and they're not playing at their best upfront, but they do have a lot of talent up front now surprisingly spent. Their power play isn't as good as Utah's. Utah's power play is better than the Rangers, uh and statistically, so that's an advantage for them. But I just think that the young guys there are going to have to get out jump on them early, and go from there.
All right, A couple of minutes left.
I have some kind of random questions for you away from current uh, you know, games and teams and and we were talking about this earlier, because every time I go down to a game and every time I used to go into the garden for a game and watch pro hockey, I'm reminded of the intensely impressive athletes these players are, and how incredible the sport is with the timing and the precision and the physicality and the speed and the just the skating, Like, go ahead, go try
to skate, you know, skating a straight line, let alone what they do. But for some reason, Neil, it doesn't seem to translate on television as it pertains to, you know, grabbing your average Joe sports fan that sits down at night and just wants to watch a game and doesn't have a preference. They the numbers still say they massively migrate to football, And I do believe the NFL has the best TV show in sports. I've always believed that's
one of the reasons the NFL is king. And you know, NBA numbers aren't what they used to be, but you know, the NHL is still very much forth in most ratings. Now there are some markets where those are exceptions. But you're the guy for this, like, why doesn't this sport seem to translate over to television?
What are your thoughts on that?
Well?
I think there's two things that are really important. The puck is small, so if you don't know the game inherently, you're wondering where did the puck go? Where is it right now? And the other thing that makes it hard in TV is that you have boards going all around the plane service. You don't have that in any other sport. So cameras, of course are on one side of the ice, and when the puck gets on to that side of the ice, you can't see it because the boards are
in the way. That's another thing. If you think about football, if you think about baseball, if you think about basketball, you always know where the ball is. In those sports, you don't always know where the puck is now. As I said, people who are real hockey fans understand, they've seen it so many times. I understand where the puck is going, and they understand what the nuances are. But I think that those things Spence are really have always
been the achilles heel of watching hockey on TV. I don't believe it's because there's the rules they don't understand. There's only two basic rules in hockey, and that's off site. And I think there's really not a lot of others people can understand you can't trip people, you can't hit people with a stick. You can't do that. Obviously you're going to get a penalty. I think it's the fact
on TV you don't get this. You don't see the speed that you do when you're in the building, and it's really hard to follow the puck.
Yeah, And I know they've tried solutions with the puck, you know, having the flash like follow it or whatever, but nothing has ever really seemed stuck in a way neo. It kind of reminds me of soccer, where you know, there are a lot of average joe sports fans that don't necessarily understand soccer and they wish that rules were different and the goals were bigger or whatever. And soccer people are just kind of like, this is our sport, man, either you like it or not. I feel like hockey
people are kind of the same. Like you can complain that you can't see the puck. You can complain that you don't understand this or that, but deal with it like this is our game and we love it.
Well, that's true. And I'll give you one other example that came to mind of why it's difficult on TV. A camera, whether it's your camera on your phone or any other camera, can't catch an image like your eyes can't. And so think about this for a minute. Have you ever gone outside and seen a tremendous moon in the sky and thought, oh, I got to get a picture of that. This is really cool, and you can't get a picture of it with your phone because it doesn't
capture that image. Well, that's the same thing with the puck and the camera. Watching from TV, your eyes can see the puck and when you're in the building, you can see the speed, see where it goes, catch all that with the naked eye, but the camera can't catch it the same way. And I use that analogy to the moon because there's been so many times I've had these great South Carolina moon So I want to take a picture. I take a picture and it's just looks
like a street light up in the air. So it's difficult. They've tried a lot of things, as you said, but at the end of the day, it's what you said. It's our sport. You know, learn it, you'll love it. Try to attend the games if you can, because then when you go back to TV, you'll understand it better.
Well said last thing, Neil, I'll set you lose, because this kind of caught my attention. And I want to be clear, I was alive for the Miracle on Ice. I just was too so I don't remember it at all. And a bill has been introduced to Congress to award Congressional Gold Medals to the nineteen eighty Miracle on Ice Olympic hockey team. It was reintroduced to the House of
Representatives in the Senate on Wednesday. I was unfamiliar that this was ever in front of the Senate, and instead of asking you whether or not you think this is something that will happen, just wanted to get your perspective about what that team, what that moment, what that Al Michaels call did for the game and the way it changed it.
You know, I think it did something for the country because at the time, the country was embroiled in that Iran controversy with the with the hostages and the the consulate having been taken over, the US consulate and the people being held hostage that worked in the consulate. Jimmy Carter had under his administration, they had tried several things that hadn't worked, and the country wasn't wasn't real happy.
And I think when at the at the Olympics, when in Lake Placid, when the US team, which was just a young group of college aged guys, were able to beat the Russian team, which is all at least NHL level players, although they weren't allowed to play in the NHL back then, it gave the country something to rally around and to be proud of. And I think and I know that it's been an inspiration to generations of
young Americans to want to play hockey. So it was in nineteen eighty, So if you were born, let's say in the mid seventies and you're watching that early seventies, you might want to go put skates on and become and try to be a hockey player. And now fast forward to twenty twenty five, we have tons of American
players playing in the National Hockey League. And I think we owe a lot of gratitude to that US team and Herb Brooks, the coach who's unfortunately passed away, but we owe them gratitude for helping promote the game in the United States and bring it to America.
Well, Neil, thank you my friend Big Daves in town.
We're going to get a little dinner tonight, so I'm sir, yeah, I'll definitely pass along your hellos. And obviously he'll be excited that we spoke today.
I hope he doesn't do what he used to do to me and make me pay, make you pay.
I hope he's listening. I hope he's listening. Neil, great chatting with you, my friend. Have a great week.
Okay, thanks buddy, take care all.
Right, great.
Neil Smith, architect of at nineteen ninety four New York Rangers, Stanley Cup winning team, and the Rangers are here right now to play the hockey Club tomorrow, a couple of days after. The Montreal Canadians are a town. Nothing's real, man, it is wild. If you've not been to a game, it's worth it, fun spectator experience. I want to tell you about my friends at Prize Picks. Bill Riley's going to join us coming up next, Utah football, Utah basketball.
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What you can't see right now is the voice of the you.
It's Bill Riley clapping to Kim Carn's Betty Davis is a c night witnessed on a number of occasions during the old Bill and Spence days. Riles I had to dust Off a classic for you. I know you appreciate this on a Wednesday.
Yes, I do spend. I was kind of hoping that you would break out the Cranberries for me today because I believe, I believe it was seven years ago today that Dolores reared in the lead singer of Yours and Mind, one of our favorite bands, died.
Good knowledge, good reminder, and next time we'll do that if I remember correctly.
You and I disagree on the Cranberry's best song.
Correct What do you think it's zombie?
No, I'm a Linger guy period.
I thought you I'm a Linger. No, no, no, you and I are, well, you're a Linger longer guy.
Well that I have no argument there, and I will bring the potatoes. I will bring the fear. I always thought you loved dreams. I thought you were a dreams guy. But I guess you're a longer guy.
I do like dreams. But there's something about Linger that's her voice was so haunting in a beautiful way, but it was just haunting.
Yes, and also there is something about a Linger longer. So if any any of our listeners are listening and there's one on tap, hit me up, man. I'm a big fan that food. You cannot get food like that anywhere, Riles.
It's true, it's true.
How are you doing, im good man?
So we'll do some hoops in a minute. Happy for Craig and that first big twelve win. And I know you were traveling when Coach Witt and the staff kind of made their comments, but you are familiar with the program and you understand the tone and tenor so I won't get too deep into the weeds. We'll give you a chance to get back on the ground and listen. But one of the big pieces of news, and you
know it's I don't think it's a surprise. We were all just kind of waiting on clarity about Cameron dot Cam rising and simply he's not on the roster, and Kyle said, when the time is right, Cam will let us know what his next steps are. But what's your reaction to the news? Who like has said not surprising but now official?
Yeah, kind of like you not not surprising. I mean, Cam's played a lot of football when he's older. But I thought when they brought Jason Beck in and Devin Dampier made the kid made the commitment to Utah, that kind of signaled the direction that Utah was going in with their quarterback and their new offense, and so that it really didn't surprise me. I've not heard word one about Cam. He's kind of gone radio silent on a lot of things, so it'll be interesting to see where
he ends up. But yeah, it wasn't super surprised by the news, just simply because new time, new era, new offense, and the offensive coordinator brought in a very dynamic, younger quarterback to run his offense. So I will be anxious to see what Cam does. I mean, does he play under year college football? Who gives him an opportunity because he's got a track record of being hurt a lot
over the last three or four years. But when he's healthy, we know he's a very good quarterback too, So I, like everybody else, would be really curious to see where he goes and what he does. I'm also really curious to see this new Jason Beck offense because just based on you know, a couple of conversation since I've had with him obviously off the air, it sounds like a pretty big departure from where Utah has been in recent years.
We'll get there in a moment.
Let's stick with the cam stuff for just a second here, because I want to kind of explore the space.
Now.
I don't fault, Like, dude, put off the real world as long as you can. And if you're Bill, if you're Bill Riley, you've been able to do it for forty years or whatever, So I'm not I'm not saying you don't work hard.
You get the deal.
Like if your only you know, if your next option is to enter the real world and you got to wake up at six thirty to return emails from a sales manager, go play at Middle Tennessee State for a year and make one hundred grand. I don't know what it looks like, but I would not begrudge him at all if he just finds a smaller school, makes a couple hundred grand or whatever, and gives it one more go to show that he can maybe put some tape out there.
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, let's face it, even I mean, he could be doctor cam Rising by now based on the amount of schooling that he's had there. How many people step out of school and their first job pays them sick figures?
Very few, very few of it.
My son is an engineer with an MBA. He makes really good money spence a lot better than his old man made. But he's not an engineer with an MBA and had a drummer in a rock band which we'll be playing at Urban Lounge later this week. But I digress.
No, no, no, no, no, you do not digress. What what's the name of this band?
Drunk in June?
That rules? All right? Now you can go back to not digressing and continue.
That's awesome, though, But but the point is back to cam. Yeah, if Middle Tennessee State, or or Western Kentucky or you know, Illinois, somebody, maybe a smaller school, is willing to offer you one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand dollars to play football for another year. Heck yes, take it and run. You got the rest of your life to return emails to your sales manager. Play football as long as you can totally agree.
Last thing here as he walks away, And I would imagine most people know that he should be remembered as a legend. And I would imagine giving time, excuse me, everybody lands in that space. But you call his biggest games pack twelve championships Rose Bulls. As Cameron walks away, how should how should we remember him as Utah's quarterback?
Well, you and I both know this because I'm old and you're older. Indeed, time time is it gives you a great perspective on things. You know, you get caught up in the moment. He was hurt the last two years, but when we reflect back on it, Cameron Rising is one of the most important players in the history of University of Utah football. He was the guy that helped them become more than just relevant. He helped them become
a player in a Power five conference. No offense to Troy Williams and to Travis Wilson and even Tyler Huntley, who was really good too, but Cam got him over the hump. They won Pack twelve championships, They went to Rose Bowls when he was the quarterback. I just think, you know, if you're making a short list of the most important players in program history, he's on that short list.
Totally agree, all right, Moving off of it, I talked about this to start of the show. I was just genuinely curious as to which parts of the Utah coaches media would garner the most response, and Kyle was asked about Keanu, he was asked about Cameron Calhoun, and he said the overriding factor of both was ANIL in his opinion. Now somebody goes to Tuscaloosa High five man, good luck. He like, no one's competing with that type of cash, Shay and probably simply cash, right, I mean at tuscal
Los Alabama is what it is. But I think the fact that Kyle alludes to Keanu to BYU was anil the overriding factor there from what I can kind of ascertain, and some feedback guys I've received that just kind of didn't land very well for folks who have this idea that the narrative out there with BYU landing aj Debantza and BYU coming off this Big twelve season that was very unexpected but very successful. On the other side of Utah basketball trying to find their footing Utah football rough
Big twelve season. I just think there's this feeling with a lot of people in the market that BYU has something figured out with the collective that maybe Utah doesn't. I don't know if that's the case, but you know, the deal with narratives, I just wonder what your thoughts are because there were a lot of speculation, like, look, I know there's been tampering accusations. I can't speak to any of that, but there was a lot of religiosity
in the messaging from Keanu and his family. And look, you can get an LDS experience in Sault lak a Utah, but the BYU experience is different.
It just is it always will be.
And so a lot of people are like, yeah, maybe he just as decided as he's aged that that's where he needs to be to lean into that type of life or whatever. And then Kyle says it's nil, and I think a lot of people kind of left scratching their heads.
Bill, what are your thoughts?
I think it's probably a mixture, don't. I'm not privy to the negotiations of NIL, but I do know that spence in this day and age, I think just about every recruitment on every level, at every position has some tie to an NIL component to it. So I would never second guess Kyle on that, because he's the one sitting in on those negotiations. But I don't think that was I don't think that was the only component there.
It was weird. I mean we you know, one minute he's a Utah man for life, and then the next minute he's he's gone. But you know, there was a coach down there. I think Cioty Pooha, who's now on the staff at BYU, recruited into Utah, and I think there might be a relationship there as well. So it's what I've always said, you know, go where you're happy. Life is short, Go where you're happy. Is it a loss, It is a loss. He's a good football player, but
he's not an irreplaceable football player. Utah produces defensive linemen. They pull him out of thin air, and guys can compete. Nobody knew Kenneltonabasa two years ago and then he popped on the scene. I think Utah is going to be just fine. He's a really good football player and I think he'll probably do just find down there. But I don't think it's one of those losses that the program
can't recover from. And I think too, just because it's your rival, your rival had a good year, you had a down year, and this was just kind of that. I don't know that Cherry on top of a tough tough year, Sunday for a lot of people to digest. To be very fair, I think these two programs are actually in a pretty good place. Utah is not that far off from being back where they were. Good quarterback play would have had him in the right place. I
think there's still plenty of talent the program. But there's no doubt too that here the BYU programs made some nice strides in recent years too, So it seeks to lose a good player, but I think you'd all be just fine.
Well, And you know, this is how I started the show. It's like, it's kind of an interesting time in our market when it comes to our sports products because a lot of us as media members, certainly the fan bases of all these teams, we're going through very new things. And when you go through a new thing, when it happens to you for the first time and it's unchartered waters, your world is shook a little bit and you're like, Okay, how do I.
Get through this? This is a new space for me to traverse.
Jazz fans aren't used to a super long rebuild without any immediate hope in sight, and that's kind of where we're at. Although they've been better as of late, and I think bill when it comes to college football media members, fan bases, folks that like to use the Internet to feel brave, You're just gonna have to get used to every year losing players you like and players that are really good. There's no program that isn't getting got by this.
Yeah. I kind of said this a couple of years ago. You're gonna lose players every year, but there's going to be one or two players maybe every year that maybe even catch you off guard. And I think that that was one of the cases this year. And again, who can get in the head of an eighteen to twenty two year old kid, plus whoever's whispering in their ear, family friends, an attorney, an agent, whatever that might happen to be. It's hard to get a grasp on that.
So yeah, it's just I think it's just a new reality that we live in Sman.
So moving off of that now, I wonder what you make of the conversation regarding the efforts to get Dorian Singer an additional year nothing official. Coach Witz said, they're doing all they can to make it happen. And you know, Devin's rowing numbers weren't great a year ago, but if Dorian Singer can come back.
That's the talent you want on your roster.
And maybe because of the familiarity he has with Devinuse as they've known each other for a while, maybe that's a one two punch that could breed.
A lot of results.
What are your thoughts on the potential of seeing Dorian Singer back on campus.
I think it'd be fantastic. You would then have your definitive wide receiver one Spence. That kid caught what fifty five balls for seven hundred yards this year with suboptimal quarterback play. What could he do with his you know, his stepbrother. I think they're step brothers. They're related. He and Devin are related. Throwing him the football and to Devin's numbers, I will say this because I've talked to
some people. Remember he was a true sophomore this past year and it was really his first year as the guy at New Mexico. So I think those passing numbers, and it's mostly the accuracy numbers. I think he threw for like fifty eight or fifty nine percent accuracy. You'd like to have it about sixty five. I think that'll only get better. Better offensive line at Utah probably better
overall weapons that he had at New Mexico too. But back to the singer thing, you know, I think the NCAA is probably in a place where they're just tired of fighting things, and I think that if you could probably get good representation in your life, there's probably a good chance that you might get that extra year of playing. So I think it would be great. We saw the kid at Vanderbilt, Diego Pavia, the quarterback from New Mexico State, basically challenge and then they said, yeah, go ahead and
have that extra year. So I don't I've not heard anything on I know he's trying to, but I've not heard anything definitive. But boy, if they could get him back, that would be a real shot in the arm for this offense.
You reference, you've had the opportunity to chat with Jason backoff air and get to know him a little bit. This was kind of, you know, most people's first opportunity to hear him speak since taking the job publicly. And my my take my first takeaway I told port of this is like, I can see why Kyle Exen, you know, yeah, but you reference, it's that it's going to be a
little bit of a different offensive approach. Let's allowbrate on that a little bit now that the fan base is officially heard from Jason Beck.
Well, I just think he talked about it a little bit yesterday in just some of the comments that I read. I didn't listen to the press commerce because I was traveling, but it sounds like the offense is going to be very multiple, three receiver sets, one tight end, two tight end sets. It's just you're gonna see a lot of different looks, and it's not your traditional spread where you're just throwing the ball forty and fifty times a game. He really likes to run out of his spread offense
as well. So Andy's offense was great. I mean when it was humming, when he had good quarterback play, it was really really good. But this is going to be I think it just, at least to me, feels like a little bit of a departure from what we saw from Andy's and something that's a little bit more commonplace in college football these days.
All right, before we get to basketball, a couple of basketball thoughts. I've been asking the college football guests on
the show kind of this question. You'll be uniquely qualified to expand on it as you know, Bill, whether it's two thousand and four Fiesta, two thousand and eight Sugar back to Backpack twelve championships, back to back Rose Bowl appearances, Utah football's best years have been more or less on the tail end of a three or a four year cycle where they recruit, identify kids they think can play Utah football, develop them over the course of two, three
four years, and then after that process has taken place, they've won conference championship, They've gone to big bowl games, they've won good bowl games. Is that still a model that you can use in college football to build up a program.
Yeah. I think it's a hybrid. Now, Spence, I think you can't rely solely on that. I just don't think you can do that anymore just because of the way things are. No matter how good your program is, I think a lot of times kids are looking for greener pastures. It's not just happening in Utah. Alabama's losing guys, Florida's losing guys, you know, Ohio State lose I mean, it's
just it's everywhere. These kids, all in essence, you know, fre agents year to year until something changes there that locks them in for a set period of time, so I think there's still that. Yeah, you've still got to developed guys. You have to have a base, you have to be able to bring guys in and develop them.
But you've also got to save room for guys because your roster is going to turn over every year for being able to recruit out of that portal and bring guys in that can and I think Kyle's use that term plug and play with your offense or your defense pretty quickly. So yes, developmental. I still think football is always going to be about that and an eighty five ninety man roster, but it's not the only way to
go anymore. You've got to be able to supplement that with finding guys that come into the program and contribute immediately through the portal.
All right, a couple of minutes left and we'll set you loose. I would imagine you are in Texas. You're calling this basketball game tonight, are you not?
I am in Fort Worth as we speak.
All right, that's what I thought. I don't know why that just dawned on me. I've teased the game like seven times.
Moving on.
You know, we had your guys Sean Mooney on last week and I asked him, I said, look, I'm just looking at the schedule. Where's the first Big Twelve win? And he said, Okay State. Oh, excuse me, Oklahoma State in Salt Lake. That's a winnable game. And they smoked him.
Bill.
Now, Oklahoma State went down a provo. They got got good last night too. But you're around the team, how do you describe it relieved? Like was it just kind of like a weight off the shoulders? And what about that performance you think could be real and reliable as we move forward.
Now, Well, I think that they played their best offense against a team that wants to speed you up and force turnovers by getting you out of sorts. Utah handled Oklahoma State's pressure really well, and then defensively they got back in transition against the team that had the best and fastest pass pace of play in the Big Twelve per Ken Ponds. So I think it was a matter of everything coming together. Now, to be fair, Oklahoma State
was not one of the most talented teams. They play really hard, but they weren't an upper tier talent team in the Big Twelve, so that helped a little bit too. And being back at home did as well. But they saw some shots go in early spence, which they hadn't really seen at Iowa State or against Baylor or Texas Tech. And sometimes you know this when you see a couple of shots go in early. They built that big lead early.
It was eleven to nothing early against against Oklahoma State, and I think that fed them on the confidence side of things, and their defense was really good. They were true to the scout. Tonight, they're going to play a TCU team that's on their level. I mean TCUs in that. You know, I've always said the top six or seven teams are pretty defined, and then teams eight through sixteen are pretty undefined. You can throw them at about hat and pull names out. This is a good team. Jamie
Dixon's good coach, He's got good players. I don't think it's as good as some of the last couple of NCAA tournament teams he's had, So I do think Utah's got a good chance to know what they're going to have to do tonight because Nixon teams, going back to his days at Pittsburgh are really really physical. So if they can match the physicality tonight of TCU, I think they'll have a good chance.
Before I say you lose rotationally, Craig is just to his credit, I mean, you have to try things.
And I appreciate that.
He does because there are some coaches that are stubborn enough to rest on their laurels and believe in their system and say, you know, this is just the deal.
We're going to grow into it.
But it seems like every game there are lineup changes, starting lineup changes, rotational changes. Some of that injuries, some of that players the way I get it, But did you see anything rotationally against Okay State that you think Craig may have found a little something with his personnel.
Yeah. I love Jake wall Lean in the starting lineup. Sometimes you get off to a slow start because you don't match the other team's energy. I know it's not right, but sometimes that just happens. Walleen is an energy guy and they make the right play kind of a guy,
and he can play multiple positions for you too. They inserted him in the starting lineup against Oklahoma State, and Jake was really good, hit a career high and in points that game, and he just he's he's just he's one of those guys that's a connector and a positive guy on the floor now you love to play with So. I haven't seen the starting line up tonight, but it wouldn't surprise me based on the success they had the
other night against Oklahoma State. If you don't see Wallleen back in the starting lineup again tonight too.
All right, Ryle, thanks for the time, buddy. You have a great call. Travel safe and with chat soon, Okay, Linger longer sman, Oh dude, don't tease me. I want to all the time. Those folks are having a good time. Bill, you can't say they're not.
You're right, calculator.
There he is, Bill Riley voice the Utch. You can hear him on the call tonight five forty five. You tom EN's basketball taking on TCU.
You ever been to a linger longer? Young man? Have you ever experienced the magic of a linger longer?
Do you do?
You know what it is? No?
I know the song that you're discussing that you're.
Referenced now, the song is only called Linger.
We can play that coming up next, beautiful tune a Linger longer. You know what, if it's still a thing, I honestly don't know if it is.
But after.
Sacrament meeting at an LDS singles ward, Folks that are looking to meet their live companions or pardon me, eternal companions. Folks that are looking to meet their you know, their their partner, you know, their boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever the terms are these days, that thing I can't keep up partner. Let's just go with partner. After sacrament meeting of an LDS singles ward, they linger longer and the spread is amazing. We're talking potatoes, usually a nice ham desserts.
Baker.
The baking is a ten out of ten, and you get the opportunity to stay after and linger longer and chat with folks. It's it's a lovely thing. It's you know, the service never really pulled me in, but the linger longer. I'm the guy that shows up for that. Yeah, that's good time, sir. It's an after party for singles, yes, you know what. Sure, and everybody parties differently. I'm not judging one way or the other. Usually a lovely punch option,
maybe some soda. Funeral potatoes every time, and it hits every time. Tell me, funeral potatoes don't hit. They do, but they're just scalloped potatoes. It's not like our own thing that we invented. And even though we take credit for it. You know you don't be woke about funeral potatoes. Please, I've been waiting, no, but like, just let people enjoy their funeral potatoes, copious amounts of fry sauce.
The food is. You cannot beat the food at a linger longer. I'll listen. I'm open to it. Okay, I'll stop by. I can't believe you had a hot funeral potatoes. Take mans is what I'm here for.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, lovely. Uh sometimes finger sandwiches, which are great. Oftentimes you're running into a Sunday bar. You know, Banana splits Man highly recommended for a young, single, good looking guy like you.
I'll take you up on that.
All right, Well, at this point we can go together. Let's go, let's catch a break, let's behave ourselves. We're going to bring in Zach Harper NBA Daily Assists today and for all you are a cell fans gather around the radio. Coming up at about four thirty, Kurt Schmidt will stop by. He's the technical director. He's in charge of roster decisions, and there have been a ton of them this offseason, so we're gonna bring him in. But coming up is the twenty twenty five Utah International Excuse
Me Auto Expo. He returns to the Mountain America Expo Center, showcasing the latest cars, trucks, shiv's crossovers, evs, exotics, and more, all in a no pressure, non selling environment so you can explore twenty twenty five models discover a wide range of options, from hybrids and plugging hybrids to evs and traditional gas vehicles, helping you on the perfect fit for your lifestyle. Get hands on by sitting behind the wheel,
inspecting engines, and experiencing new technologies. Also, don't miss pets looking for forever homes and the Subaru Loves Pets adoption area definitely a good use of your time. New this year, the Adventure Utah Display celebrates the state's love for the great outdoors. It can experience the latest and off road vehicles atv side by sides, tollable trailers and boats designed for adventure, whether you're planning to conquers Utah's one thousand
lakes or exploits vast trail network. This show case, how's what you need It starts on Friday the seventeenth, Okay eleven am to eight pm. Saturday, open, Sunday, open Monday. Martin Luther King Day Junior. It is open from ten am to eight pm. That's Martin Luther King Junior Day. Pardon me. It's out the Mountain America Expo Center, ninety five to seventy five South State Street in Sandy.
Parking is free and there's a lot of it. Here's how you get tickets.
You can get tickets in advance and the admission is only twelve dollars okay.
That goes through Thursday.
Then it goes up to fifteen dollars okay, seven dollars for seniors sixty two and older military first responders as well. Make sure you bring that ID if you purchase the tickets online at Auto Show Utah dot com.
Children twelve and under are admitted free.
Our buddy Bobby Marx who joined the program earlier this week, and his cohorts over at ESPN dot com.
And of course this toim of years.
We are high speed ahead to the NBA trade deadline, a number of well almost days away. It's less than four weeks away now. If you missed it, yesterday we made the Jazz interested again. I took a tremendous amount of guff for being an idea man talking to you porter, for implying that should be badly injured and quite frankly.
Entirely anemic.
New Orleans Pelicans operation decides that it is finally time to break it down. They have the eleventh highest payroll in pro basketball. They have won eight excuse me nine, a one game winning streak. Maybe he's changed little narrative. They're nine and thirty two, and should they decide that this whole Zion Williamson situation has become untenable because he can't stay healthy and now we know that he apparently can't show up for play. You know, the flights on time.
As Tim McMahon joined us, that was tuesday, that was yesterday. What the hell? Tim McMahon joined us yesterday and said that, look, you don't get suspended for being late to a flight once and probably not fifty times. So if the Pelicans
decide that that's it no more. We tried, and they have elected to potentially move on from Zion Williamson at the age of twenty four, who is still generational when he's right, the Jazz should at least kick the tires and I was summarily dismissed poor by the Peanut Gallery, including you. I mean, look, it's you can make a case and if Lady Luck shines on the Jazz, this whole discussion is the moot point. But in nine lottery opportunities,
the Jazz have never moved up. So even if they have one of the top chances at the top pick, I know there's a lot of skepticism about the Jazz moving up, Like if you can get Zion, who's under contract for four years, I know it's way out of the box and certainly not very realistic. If I'm running the Jazz and Dave Griffin calls me and says, hey, we're gonna move on from.
Zion, I'm putting up.
The chain of command, I'm calling ownership talking to everybody about that potential.
I don't think it's that crazy, is what I'm saying.
Just to be clear, I don't totally disagree with you.
I think that.
When you look at the talent that that guy has, when you look at what he can bring to the basketball floor, I don't really see many negatives in just putting a flyer out there, especially Spence. If you're not planning on winning for the next year or two right now. Where it could get tricky is if Utah is otherwise rebuilding to the point where in three year spence they're trying to be competitive and they have allocated to their roster a lot of their salary Cap two one Zion
Williamson on an expiring contract. Now, I don't hate the you know, just throwing it out there as a chance. I don't like going all in and making Zion your plan if that's if that makes sense, if you have a structure in place where you plan on being competitive in four years, and you have Zion under contract for the next three, and you just want to run an experiment with one of the more talented prospects we've seen
in a long time. I'm with you there, because I don't really care if the Jazz win more than twenty games next year. I don't think that that's going to be a real priority. So I don't think it's a crazy ask. I don't think it's a completely out there I guess it just is. It's just one that you have to really dive into what it would actually look like to feel comfortable with it. Based on what the Zion new Orleans tenure has looked.
Like So here's my assertion. Some good points in there. By Porter Bobby Marks about three weeks ago wrote what is called he does it every year the NBA Draft asset rankings seven year outlooks for all thirty teams, right, and so essentially he ranks the teams that are in the best position over the next you know, six seven years to add talent via the draft. Okay, so seven year outlooks for all thirty teams. The number one team is Oklahoma City. Like, it's just wild what is happening
down there? And in a way that should give Jazz fans some hope. I mean, just simply market comparison, market to market, because you do hear this narrative in the market like, Okay, we're not La, we're not South Beach, we're not Chicago whatever. Boston's ever been a free agent destination. Look it up, Like that's a misnomer. It's a city that NBA players like don't love. You can kind of say the same thing about the NIXT quite frankly, but where players want to live, it's clearly La South Beach.
It's it's sunshine, and that's proven to be true. Maybe Phoenix with what they've been able to build with the talent on paper, although the results haven't been there. But Sam Presty and Oklahoma City have shown you the good ownership, stays out of the way, hires good people, let them do their job. You can build up something. And I mean this with all due respect. You ever been Oklahoma City. Shout out to our friends down there. It's it's not the spot man, it's just like I like sull it.
That's just me. It's home for me. Whatever.
But if you can build up something like this in Oklahoma City, and the whole exception to every conversation we can have about any of this stuff is without Shay Colahoma City is in a different stratosphere. You have to have a guy like that, you just do. Look at the past champs. It's not a recent thing. It's Michael,
it's Kobe, it's Lebron. Jason Tatum is a current version of kind of that guy, right and if he's not, Jalen's right there, like, you just have to have at least one of those guys if you want a chance. And that's why the Jazz are really not close because they don't have one of those guys. It's marketing's just not and he's really good and I like him a lot. Oklahoma City at one, and then it's San Antonio two, and they already have a generational piece, so they're on
their way. Brooklyn at three, they're tread and water. But then the Jazz are at four. Okay, So over the next seven years, the Jazz have thirteen incoming draft picks.
Thirteen incoming draft picks. Justin's anak.
Danny Ainge has done a really good job of making sure these books are clean.
Okay.
So they're in a good place to capitalize on a team that wants to fire sale because they have a high payroll, but they're not getting results. And if you're an owner in pro basketball, hell is paying a roster a tremendous amount of equity and capital and not getting results.
Right.
So Matt Ishbia, the new owner of the Phoenix Suns, is currently the king of this where the Phoenix Suns have the highest payroll in Pro basketball two hundred and twenty six million dollars. Phoenix is gonna have to do something. I mean, they just are two hundred and twenty six million dollars. Second Apron luxury taxing on the table, and the Suns are nineteen and twenty. They're a game beyond San Antonio. For the playing, matt ishbi is gonna have
to do something. Okay, Minnesota has the second highest payroll in the NBA. Now Minnesota has been better as of late twenty one and eighteen. I would imagine they're going to crawl up to the top six and avoid the playing altogether because I do like their personnel. But that's a lot of money to pay a team that's not getting results. And it's Boston defending champs, Milwaukee, Joannison, Dame, New York, the Lakers, Miami, Denver, Philadelphia, Dallas. Philly's in
a precocious spot. NB doesn't want to play. Paul George is kind of following his lead. Then you have Dallas at ten. A lot of people think they can win the West, potentially win the championship. They have the experience with long playoff runs, and they have one of the top five players in the league. Then it's Golden States Steph Curry, and then it's the New Orleans Pelicans. They're right there. The Pelicans have a higher payroll than the Clippers.
The Calves who are killing it, and we could keep going Memphis Grizzlies.
So if your ownership.
And you're the one of the owners New Orleans Pelicans and you're David Griffin, you're just looking at this zion thing and you're just kind of like, okay, so what do we do here? Because there are a few things that are undeniable about the situation. Number One, he's awesome. He just is always has been. And when he burst onto the scene is kind of like the original YouTube social media phenom out of high school. Most people are kind of like, Okay, we know he can dunk, we
know he's an incredible, insane athlete. I was always concerned about the health because a dude that size shouldn't move like that, like when you're I don't know what he's listed at. As far as his weight goes, probably too eighty two ninety and you can jump out of the gym.
You're gonna get hurt. It was just a matter of time.
So then he lands at Duke and you watch him and you're like, wait a second, he is not just a highlight package. This kid can go. He has game for days. He is going to change an NBA organization lands in New Orleans. Obviously, the injury stuff starts right away. But when he is right, he is really good. And here's the thing that's been lost in the narrative this year.
If I just asked you eighty two games in an NBA counter seats, how many games designed Williamson play last year without looking it up, your guest might be forty right with the way he's talked about. He played in seventy games last year. He averaged twenty three point six boards, five assists. He's up to about thirty four percent from three. That's not his thing. He's fifty seven percent from the floor, and he is a menace when he's healthy. Okay, yes,
they're the injury concerns. Rookie year twenty four games, sophomore year sixty one, year three, twenty nine, but year four seventy games. That's actually rarefied air in the NBA right now. So back to the whole conversation about what the Jazz could do to get involved here and why should they?
Why should they?
Right is ultimately the most important thing as to why they should get involved in my opinion, because we go back to Bobby Mark's trade trade Asset ranking Guide where the Jazz are number four. Okay, with thirteen incoming picks of the next seven years, six of the picks belong to the Jazz. They have two picks from Minnesota, they have two picks from Cleveland. They have a top five protector from the Lakers in twenty seven, They have a
top five protected pick from Minnesota in twenty nine. Then they have a couple of swaps Minnesota or Cleveland in twenty twenty six, and then Cleveland in twenty twenty eight. So if you really dig into the weeds, here the best chance for the Jazz at least, and you can only analyze what's in front of you. I don't know what the future will hold. Will Donovan Mitchell decide that
he doesn't want to live in Cleveland anymore? And this little portion of elite play from the Cavs is just a moment in time and not a reality.
I don't know. They're thirty four and five.
There's a chance that the pick the Jazz get from them this year is the last pick in the first round. I referenced Minnesota earlier twenty one and eighteen. Okay, so they're playing a little bit better. That won't be a lottery pick. Maybe it's eighteen nineteen twenty. Okay, So as the draft capital starts spilling in from the Gobaar in the Mitchell trades, the.
Question has to be asked, and I'm sure it is in that front office.
Okay, what are these picks going to be and what's a realistic expectation for us to find talent if these picks are forever in the middle or the late of the first you know, the late portion of the first round. Now again, this could change with the drop of a hat. You know, Minnesota after the Cat trade, they made a big mistake by trading for Julius Randall. Maybe their best days are behind them and they're on the way down. And so potentially maybe a couple of the picks that
are on the way from the Timberwolves. Maybe the unprotected pick in twenty twenty seven is up there at the top of the lottery odds, and all you can do is give yourself bye to the apple and then hope that Lady Luck finally shines on the Jazz in a
way that it hasn't in nine lottery tries. You have three unprotected picks from Cleveland this year, twenty seven and twenty nine, and like I said, maybe twenty twenty nine the Calvs pick turns into something really exciting, but I don't think it would do won't this year, and all those guys are under contract in a couple of years, so I'd be stunned if anything came the Jazz way
in twenty twenty seven. The top five protected Lakers pick is interesting because in twenty seven, I would imagine Lebron has finally done, but it's top five protected, top five protected from Minnesota, and then those swaps will have to see only time will tell it to a number of years away.
This is a long way I will land the plane.
Okay, The best chance the Jazz have to have talent, high level talent via the draft process probably will be their own picks, and they have six of their own picks over the next seven years. As a fan, are you ready to four or five six years from now being the same place that you're at now waiting for the Jazz dad talent.
So to wrap it up, it's a long.
It's a long way of me landing the plane if the Jazz, if their own pick ends up once again at like six, seven or eight over the next two years and they've gone through all this suffering, and they've gone through all of this losing. Yet the calculated risk doesn't turn out the way it did for San Antonio with Victor Weman, Yama, Danny and Justin are gonna have to make a move to try to.
Get the jazz one of those dudes.
You can find a Keyante George or a Bryce sen Saba, or a Kyle Philipowski or a Walker Kessler through the draft process, and we hope the Taylor comes back healthy and starts to fill the potential that I think he has.
I'm not out on him at all.
You can fill an NBA roster with decent talent, sometimes good talent if you have mid first round picks, late first round picks, and at times you hit a home run that nobody sees. If you draft a chubby kid in Nikola Jokic, the nobody knows about and a few years later he's the best player on the planet. Stuff like that happens. Stuff like that has happened here with Millsap and Kierlinko and late lottery picks with Donovan and Carl and John and Gobert at twenty nine, like all
those things are out there as a possibility. But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And if David Griffin calls Justin Xanakin says, look, here's what works. We're ready to move on from the Zion stuff. It's not working here. He needs a change his scenery. He needs a new coach. Maybe Will can unlock something with him that our coach is down here simply has not been able to figure out. Maybe Will is a guy that can get through design Williamson, So we're moving on from him.
Okay, And here's what works for us, Justin Xanak and Danny Inge.
You send us John Collins, you send us Jordan Clarkson, and you send us five of your future first round assets. Remember they have thirteen incoming picks over the next seven years. The Collins and Clarkson thing just make the finances work. That just makes the numbers work, right, And you're gonna say, wait, five first round picks. That seems like a lot. Donovan got that, Gobert basically got that. In a little bit
more Zion when healthy is twice the player. Either of the two those two is a or excuse me, either of those two are And when you have thirteen incoming.
First round assets over the next seven years.
Even if you trade five of them away, you still have eight left. You still have at least one first round pick every single year. And you know what you have in exchange. You have a twenty four year old player who win right, is almost as good as anyone in pro basketball, and that's not being hyperbolic, and he is under contract for four years. You don't sacrifice the immediate plan of trying to get into a spot to draft a really, really good player this year, and you
don't even necessarily have to a year from now. And you're betting on your head coach, And from what I've seen from Will Hardy, I think he's worth the bet. And you pull him aside and you say, look, we're gonna bring in this kid. My guess is Will would be all for it. But nobody's been able to get
through to him. Okay, he doesn't seem to want to take care of himself, he gets hurt, apparently, he's late all the time, and there are all these stories about him being a little bit distant with his teammates, Like, Will, will you try to get can you get through to him? Okay, You're gonna You're gonna bet on your head, coach, and I think Will has shown us a lot of reasons as far as the guy who they should bet on.
Look.
Bottom line is, there is a point one percent chance that any of this goes down.
I'm just talking you through, like when we're talking with Bobby March.
You gotta flush out all of these potential rumors, flesh out all of these ways to construct a roster, to
try to land on something. And I just feel like there's this kind of fear in our market that we are just going to be perpetually in the spot where it's like we're counting lottery odds and if those lottery odds never fully pan out, and the Jazz for the next three four years are drafting five, six, seven, and eight, and they continue to bring in like some nice players, but nobody pops in a way where you're like, Okay, he's a pillar. What are we doing right? We're spinning
our wheels. Unfortunately, you got to be bold, and I'm not sure.
It's out there.
Maybe it's a crazy idea, but I thought I throw it out there today. Maybe we'll get Zach's thoughts on this. We're gonna do a little NBA Daily Assistan with Zach Harper. Kurt Schmidt joins us as well, make a little sense of this RSL roster breakdown. Man, it just just always hits. I'm not saying if it's good or bad, but it does just always hit.
Right in some way. I guess it hits. It hits in some way.
Some international flap for our guy who just returned from overseas.
Trop Well, and according to my text message exchange with one Zach Harper, mister Pittbull apparently is truly mister worldwide.
Yes, sach oh, absolutely plan everywhere.
And where were you when you sent me the message that you were listening to him? You were overseas somewhere.
I was right in the heart of Newtown in Edinburgh, the greatest.
City in the world.
Okay, hold on, the greatest city in the world.
Greatest city in the world bar none.
Now, as you and I discussed, I have not been. I very much want to go. But what makes it the greatest literal city in the.
World Because the people are amazing, You have a great time no matter what you're doing. You know, Scotland's it's the center of the universe.
Yeah, that makes you one of one.
I've never heard anybody else say that, and again I've never been. I very much like to go, but I don't think that's a very common opinion.
Is that fair?
I don't think it's a very common opinion. But I don't think it's a very commonplace, despite being a major city in the grand scheme of things. And I think a lot of people focus on London, focus on Paris, focus.
On other places.
But I'm telling you you'll have the best time there. The food not great, I'd like you can't you can't go around that, But other than that, everything's fantastic.
Was this just like a personal mental health break? Did you have business there? What motivated the trip?
I went two years ago for New Year's and had a great time. I decided I was going to run that back, so that's what I did.
My goodness, My goodness, that's a good life week there.
What a life.
It's good to be Zach Harper?
Is it not sometimes fair enough?
Well said?
All right, Zach, are you ready to get weird on a Wednesday afternoon?
Okay?
Because no, I was excited when you were able to join us, because I've been getting weird and maybe a little bit irresponsible.
So here's my premise. Hear me out.
The New Orleans Pelicans are awful, and they're dysfunctional, and they have the eleventh highest payroll in pro basketball, and Zion can't stay healthy and apparently he cannot be on time for a flight. Now he did. He played seventy games last year. So I was talking about this last segment. We know what the Jazz are doing, Okay, we get it.
And they have thirteen first round picks coming their way over the next seven years, and there's an excellent chance that all of those picks are going to be like mid lottery, late lottery Cavs picks is going to be last this year and probably not great for a couple of years.
We'll see what happens with Minnesota, but.
Barring some crazy stroke of luck, the Jazz are going to have to find a way to find one of those dudes. Now, I still think Zion is one of those dudes when he's healthy. Every time I lock in, I'm like, man, he's still like has so much and he's twenty four.
He's on the books for four years. He is signed, and look.
If David Griffin is kind of like dude, it's untenable. It's not working. We've got to do something. The Jazz could make the numbers work with John Collins and Jordan Clarkson. Then they could send five of their thirteen picks to New Orleans in exchange for Zion and really not change their approach this year if they don't want to, and maybe even next year.
But you have him on the books for four years.
He's twenty four, and he is one of those dudes when he's right now, you're betting on your head, coach, and you're bringing Will in and you're saying you got to get through to this kid in a way that nobody's been able to so far. I know it's crazy, I know it's weird. I know it's probably not going to happen, but just give me your thoughts.
I mean, I think it's worth the gamble. Right. You go into it knowing, hey, this might.
Blow up in our face, and as long as it doesn't affect the draft position for this year, which I don't.
Think it would, and as long as it doesn't affect too much of what they can do next year, because next year is a good draft as well, which you know, if this draft pick works out in twenty twenty five, and then let's say Zion works out as well. Then if you blow the twenty twenty six chance of winning the lottery or being high up there, it's not the most disastrous thing in the world because you've got two of those guys. I think it's worth it, Like you can't.
You know, you can sell it, I think to a fan base pretty well, and so I don't think there's much of a pr thing even if it doesn't hit. You say, hey, we're taking swings here, and we acquired these picks so that we can take swings if we want to. But you do have to go in thinking this guy just may never be fully available or consistently available. But you're right, like, when he is, it's not just
that he's good. He's a historic scorer. We've seen that, Like he is historically great and efficient at scoring the basketball. You hope that you get what he did in the second half of last season, because if that's who he is when he's healthy, that's a top ten player in the league easily.
So I mean the natural follow up is, you're David Griffin.
You're the New Orleans Pelicans, And I've talked to McMahon about this. We had Bobby marks on earlier. It has to be getting close to it. We need to talk about this situation. I don't know what that means, because again, a player like that is generational and he's really hard to find, and if you trade him and he figures it out, that sucks. And I get it. But if you're the Pelicans, how close are you to going?
All?
Right? Got to figure something out.
I think David Griffin has done a fantastic job in terms of like, he made moves that make sense. He made moves that you would do in a vacuum, right, He made moves that we all thought even going into this year, hey, this seems really good.
And they were really good last season. But I do think this is enough.
Of a wake up of like, yeah, Ingram's probably out the door, Zion is not reliable, you know some of these other moves, and I think you do have to kind of start sending guys off doing a rebuild. And I think the worry if you're David Griffin is that you're not gonna be a part of the rebuild. They're
just kind of clean house. We've you know, I think the books makers early on in the season, even before all the injuries hit, said that Willie Green was, you know, one of the coaches most likely to be fired, which it was crazy to me because I think he's a really good coach. But I do think, Look, they did all these things. They acquired the talent, they did the rebuild the way you're supposed to do it, you know,
and it just didn't work out. And you can keep going through it, except that's a really as you mentioned, like that's a really expensive failed experiment. At this point, I do think you have to kick around the tires and like really look into how do we make big moves. Ingram's most likely gone, and I don't know that you want to resign him at big money. So yeah, let's see what you can get for Zion. Let's see what you get from Murray. Let's see what you can get
from a column. Like you have good young role players and Trey Murphy and Herb Jones, Like keep those guys in the mix and try to do a quick rebuild the proper way.
Yeah, Zion played more games last year than Drew Holliday, Like, and maybe it was only a moment in time, but like last year was an example of what he looks like when he's on the court for a long time. And look, we won't spend a ton of time on this because, like I said earlier, it's buying this guy.
It's probably never gonna happen. But if you don't, you know, if you don't see he'ze on the opp opportunity, should one strike and simply rely on lottery luck, I feel like you might as well drive up to Idaho and play powerball, Like if you have an opportunity, like a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Like if something like this comes the Jazz Way, even if it's a tough ask based off of our recent history, a player simply deciding that they don't want to live here, don't don't you just have to give it a try. I mean, otherwise, what are we doing? Like we're spinning our wheels right exactly.
And I'm with you, I think like that's the reason the reason you require all those picks is not to use them all for draft picks, right, Like the Thunder haven't acquired all these picks because they're going to draft you know, twenty four first round guys and you know, eight years or whatever that number is it's because you can then use it to take those swings, to have those opportunities to capitalize on when a star isn't you know, isn't happier, isn't performing, or they just needs to be
a big sweeping change somewhere, and that's what the Jazz put themselves in position to do. Now they not want to do that with Zion. I understand that because of the health risk and everything, but but you do, you do eventually have to take a swing, you know.
That's the one criticism I.
Would say of Danny Inge in the past when he was when he was in Boston, there were so many times that you hurt all these rumors and granted they're rumors, but you heard all this talk leading up to a trade deadline, and then you could almost pencil in the day after the trade deadline. Every single year Danny Ainge was going to talk about the deals he almost made, and Boston media ate it up, and everything is fine.
It's good fodder, it's good content. But there is a certain point where you can't just keep holding onto all these assets. You've got to make real, real moves with them at some point.
So ultimately, you know, with the trade deadline creeping up. You look at the teams that have ridiculous payrolls juxtaposed to average or less dand results. In the Phoenix Suns, their payroll is two hundred and twenty six mil.
I mean, matt Ish be uh, you know.
I love it when some of these like tech bros or real estate pros are like, I was uber successful doing this, so I'm just gonna go apply the processes to you know, this thing and owning an NBA team, and they think they're the smartest guys in the room, and.
I just kind of always cheer against them. But I'll leave that there.
Phoenix has won nineteen games or nineteen and twenty, and they're not built for a healthy four round playoff run. I don't give a rip how many games they run off between here and the spring. No parts of me believe that they can simply stay healthy to win four rounds. Okay, I don't give a rip about the talent or what have you. But with that payroll, it goes up to two twenty four next year, we're talking separate second apron.
We're talking in luxury tax implications. They got to do something, but I'm not sure what it is, Zach, What do you think.
Yeah, I mean, they can't do anything in terms of a big change unless Bradley Beal says, yeah, trade me, right, like he and Lebron the only ones with no trade clause in the NBA. And it's funny, like there's been these talks of you know, oh, they're going after Jimmy Butler and everything, and you know they you know, maybe they can make that work. And yeah, in theory you could, except it's not up to them. It's literally up to Bradley Beal. And outside of that, you know, they're not
trading KD. They're not trading book. I don't know if you could get anything for Nurkic sure or Grace and Allen at this point, but they don't have anything else.
They made it.
I think they made a good deal earlier today they traded Josha Kogan some second round picks for Nick Richards from Charlotte, who's a nice backup big man. But that's about the level of move that you can make to change that roster and less Bradley Beal says, yeah, I'll
go play wherever you're gonna trade me. And so like they're just stuck like I believed in it, you know, through most of last season and going into the playoffs and then seeing the way and granted like that that Temberwolves team went on a really good run, but they dominated Temberwles in the regular season, and and from a matchup standpoint, they should have really handled Minnesota with smart basketball in that series. And they got smoked, Like they
got smoked by the Wolves. They got it wasn't just that they got swept, they got him bare in that sweep.
And so since then I've.
Been like, Okay, yeah, I can't believe in this team. Like I love TD, I love book, I like watching them play, and I believe most of the last season there. I don't know what they could do right now, outside of maybe a Jimmy Butler for Bradley Beal trade if he allows it to make it even consider that they could win two games in a playoff series.
Moving over to Butler, I mean, the more and more you kind of learn about the entire landscape, the more and more that you understand if Miami is like, dude, we're not doing anything. It doesn't make sense for us, Like sorry that you're angry again and you're awesome and we see what you do when you're right and actually care about playing hard. But like, we don't really need to do anything, and honestly, it might benefit them if
they don't. But he does seem to be the one name that's out there that does change things if he lands in the right spot.
So how do you think it plays out?
And what's your favorite potential outcome here with Jimmy Butler.
I mean, I really liked the idea of him in Memphis. I thought that was a cool rumor. Uh believe the reports and and kind of the whispers around like he's told them, no, I don't like, don't trade for me. I'm not going to stay there, and so that kind of bums me out. I like the idea of him on Golden State, but it sounds like, you know, we did a bunch of reporting at the athletic. They're not really interested. At least they weren't a couple of weeks ago.
We'll see if that changes with how bad they've been recently and wanting to make a change. And I think they're the type of team that should be going all out to try to put whatever you can around stuff and not not you know, fake these these two timelines or we got to worry about our future crap. And outside of that, like it just doesn't nothing really makes sense. Houston doesn't seem all that interested. He would be, he
would be interesting there. I think this is going to get more into you know, and you can always get surprised.
By this stuff.
A team could step up, and he could he and his agent Brintley could could figure something out, you know, in the next couple of weeks. But I think we're headed more likely towards a battle of you know, designations for sus mention and battles between the team and the league and the players union than we are for hot trade rumors involving Jimmy Butler. I think it's going to get really weird and really ugly.
Yeah, I don't think you're wrong.
There any other names you're hearing, Not like you're right, Nick Richard, fine player, okay, but any other names you're hearing that should this deal go down, it actually does mean something sustainable and real for the league, I.
Mean, not like that's the thing is I don't know, you know, I don't know that Ingram has Brandon Ingram has a lot of trade value at this point. He was a name that's been thrown around, you know, quite a bit over the last year or so. I think, you know, if Jimmy Butler doesn't get moved, the biggest name we might see see get moved before the deadline is like Cam Johnson, who's a really nice player, right, A good forward can shoot and defend like he's he's nice.
Like whether he goes to you know, if Okay See goes after him, or Indiana goes after him or somebody else like that, that's a significant upgrade at that position. But I don't know that we're seeing like real movers and shakers a Butler or even an Ingram to a certain extent getting moved outside of you know, a kind of a miracle at this point. And I think a lot of that's just tied to, you know, teams are still trying to figure out how to operate in this new era of collective bargaining agreement.
All right, since we last spoke, and I'm sure you watched the game if you were overseas or what have you, But there was that there was that big OKC Cavs game, and we're going to see a rematch with them tomorrow, which will be a lot of fun this time in Okay see. And you know I couldn't help, but you know, watch that game and consider watching Donovan Mitchell as a second year player here. You know, you remember you were
around here quite a bit. Donovan's second year, that team popped like Gobert, became something nobody knew that he was going to be. Eagles turned into a great player, even though he looked like he lives in his car. They get you know, Ricky Rubio that year played really really well cold keep you going down the list, and Donovan was their primary score. He was the lead scoring option for a team that went to the playoffs OKAC with Paul George, with Mellow and.
With Russell Westbrook.
And at the time covering the series, I said oftentimes like this is such good news that Donovan's getting this experience as a second year player because it's so early in his career, because you.
Know what this is going to do.
It's going to pay off year five, six or seven, and it is. It's just paid off in Cleveland. And I made it a point to watch every part of his game, and he didn't shoot it well, but he did everything else really well, including playing good team defense, moving the basketball. They figured out his minutes. His usage is down, but his numbers are fine and they're really good. What are you ready to say about the Cabs and Donovan Mitchell as of today.
I mean, I think it's hard to you know, I do. There's still part of me that's always like I got to see in the postseason. But they've been at such a dominant level through the first half of the season. And it's not just like, oh, shots are going in.
It's the way to create.
Everything, right, like Kenny Atkinson's wrinkles to this offense and the times of the cuts and the way players are cutting, the way they move the ball. You know, there was a sequence, what was it last night against Indiana where just a couple of plays in a row, but everybody
touched the ball. The Indiana defense, which you know best whatever, but they were completely out of at a sink and it reminded me a lot of what we saw down the stretch against the Thunder the week before, where like, look, the Thunder's as good a defense as as anything we've seen probably in the last fifteen years, in terms of what they're able to do and how they're able to execute and just everything that they've got going for them, and they had this thunder team just scrambling right, and
all of it is the threats that they have offensively throughout, the big to big passing that they've got so they can play the two bigs together, you know, the way guys are moving the ball and cutting and knocking down shots. Everything that they have is showing a special level of offense that reminds you so much of you know, you know, the Celtics last year or maybe even the Spurs in
twenty fourteen. Just it's this constant movement and constant ball hand when constant passing that really puts teams at a disadvantage and you cannot, you just simply cannot have a stretch where you don't make shots with them because their offense is so potent right now. And so yeah, they're definitely a title contender. Maybe even with the way things are going right now because Boston's struggling, they should maybe
even be the title favorite. But yeah, man, this Cavs team looks as legitimate as anybody could at this point in the season.
I mean, just follow up about the Knicks and maybe Orlando plays their way into the you know, this this tier once they get Wagner back and follows back now, but they've been so hurt. I suppose if you like, there are times where I watch the honest play, I'm like, we should probably just assume that Milwaukee could be in it if things go right for them, just because he's we've seen him do it before.
He still has it in him. Again.
I don't know that anyone believes Philly's turning this thing around. I don't think anyone else is on the tier. But how I guess the way I'll ask it is the Calves and the Celtics clearly are that the number one tier in that conference.
What's the gap between them and the Knicks.
I don't think it's very big.
Like I think, I think the Knicks are about as good as Boston. I think their problem is Boston is a matchup issue for them, right, But I think in terms of quality of a team and the way they play, their offense is so good, their shooting is so good and can get better. I think their offense can get a lot better. We've seen them play pretty good defense over the last month or so, and I think that's
hopefully sustainable. It's just gonna be about depth and minutes and who's worn down for them when we get to the postseason. But I do think I think they're as I think they're good enough to be in that conversation with that Pier, I think they're better than you know, Orlando.
Once they get healthy, that's gonna be great. They're still not gonna be a team that's very good at scoring, right, and defense helps obviously the whole phrase of you know, defense wins championships and that's great, but not if you can't make a shot.
Like at least kind of me more not in today's NBA.
And so I don't think Orlando's there Milwaukee, and I think it is just out of respect to Giannis at this point, like he's playing so great that I want to believe in Milwaukee. You know, Philly stinks Indiana is not going to be good enough, although they're dangerous, But yeah, I do think the knickser are just about right there with those other two teams.
Going back to the space of what the hell do you do? What the hell does phil what does Philly do? I mean, what what's the course of action that makes sense?
Saw me?
If you heard this one before, you just got to hope you're healthy for the postseason. I mean, that's just that's what they're married to, right, That's what's always going to be with indeed, and it sucks and it you know, I want to I want to have a different conversation, but hey, let's talk Clippers chances in the postseason.
It's Kawhi gonna be help. It's the same conversation, right.
Right, all right, moving out this way because I haven't talked about this team in a number of weeks, and just equal time, fair time.
What are you willing to say.
About the Rockets who through thirty eight almost forty games, just don't appear to be going anywhere and at the very least they are going to be a pain in the ass for somebody. I don't know what it means, but what are you willing to say about through thirty eight games, the fact that the Houston Rockets do not seem to be going anywhere anytime soon?
Yeah, I mean, they're just really well coached. He may a Doka is a great coach. Right. He showed that in his one year in Boston. He showed that last year, he showed it this year. He's a great coach. They play incredible defense for such a young team, and their offense is more efficient than you might think. The issue, though, is their offense is predicated on well, yeah, we're missing a bunch of shots, but we'll go get offensive rebounds and maybe we'll get to the free throw line a lot.
They can't shoot. They're I think twenty eighth in effective field goal percentage on the season, but they're the eleventh most efficient offense. If you can rebound solidly against them, it cuts down everything. So I think they'll be one of those teams nobody wants to play in the first round. Maybe they even win a first round series. I don't think they can make a deep playoff run, but let's say that they're the two seed. They either lose in a tight first round series or they make it to
the second round and get blown out. What a massive step forward from what they look like two years ago.
So ultimately, the same way you Zach, you feel like a guy that's misunderstood and you're actually a sweet, sensitive man.
Is that fair to say, Yeah, you know what, let's subscribe to that theory.
No, I feel like you're a decent person, and I.
Just think as as good a person as I can be.
I get that sense about you.
But part of me is jealous of people like he may Udoka who just seem pissed all the time and they're fine with it, like they don't give a rip about anything you have, right, Like I kind of wish I was.
More like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's you know, they're parts of it, and especially you know, there are parts of like him, or or like Joe Missoula or out of JJ Reddick where I'm just like it feels performative to me. And maybe that's just me being cynical, like no one could be that angry and that intense all the.
Time Reddick for sure, But I feel like you dook as the type that leaves a game is like leave me alone, rolls home, just smashes through a dinner that he throws in the oven, maybe a couple of bruises, and goes to and he's fine with it.
He's like, just leave me alone.
Yeah, yeah, like like he's I wouldn't like, what does his Netflix look like?
What's his algorithm?
All the serial killers?
Weird man, it's weird.
Kings of Tuplo five times, like weird stuff.
Yeah, exactly, that all right, brother.
I always appreciate the time.
Man, have a good week with chat soon, Okay, appreciate it all right, the great Zach Harper, NBA Daily Assis Style. Now for all of you RSL fans that have been curious, and I'll admit I've been curious to Kurt Schmidt is going to join us.
Now, Kurt has not done an.
Interview, did a little media earlier as RSL has launched our preseason concer CAF is right around the corner. But I'm gonna bring in our guy in and be like, dude, what's up? Like what are we doing here? So we'll get some answers hopefully from Kurt. Really smart guy in a really tough spot that'll come your way.
Neck.
Just reminder we will SEGA night little early in time for some Utah College basketball Utah men taking on TCU tonight. Been a busy show man Neil Smith or some hockey, Zach Harper for some hoops, Bill Riley for some football and basketball. But it has been a busy news cycle all ray. I'll saw Lake our next guest man. I know he's missed this, and I know he's so excited to be doing this. It is Kurt Schmidt, technical director for the club, on a Wednesday.
Kurt, how bad did you miss me?
Man?
Let's let's be honest here.
I'm just psyched to be here.
You liar, you liar? How you been Man? Things all right with you?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I'm just waiting for the off season to start so i can relax.
Well.
Look, I don't really know where to start, but we're gonna get to as much of this as we can because I'm not privy to the conversations behind closed doors. And I know a lot of RSL fans are very curious to hear from you and your main motivation for moving on from Chicho Orongo, the Golden Boot winner for the club and at one point one of the favorites for League MVP, and you know, he just has such a bright start and then we all know it came
crashing down with the suspension. And I don't know what changed, Kurt, but something certainly did. So walk us through this. What what's it like? The communications structure, you know, speaking to ownership and Tony and everybody else in the front office, Pablo and then Jason bringing everybody together to decide to move on from a player that really went he's right.
He is just very very good.
Yeah. I mean, look, it's it's not an easy decision when when when you're talking about whether or not to move on from from a quality player, and you know, it's something that that we had to face a couple of times, maybe last year. But you know, on for all the successes that happened last year, that we achieved last year, and we did achieve some some some goals and and some heights in last season, we still fell short of our ultimate goal, right, which is winning a trophy,
holding a trophy at the end of a competition. And you know, some of that was was how things went in the in the back half of the season and half of the season, you know, and as it relates to chi Cho, obviously, you know we don't need to rehash it, but everybody knows kind of how that went for him and with us, and you know, we had certain guys step up in a time when he maybe wasn't producing as much as he had in earlier in
the year. But anyway, it just you know, it got to the point where it was obviously very difficult and something something changed, and you know, we had a lot of hard conversations internally about it amongst staff, with chi Cho and obviously his representation, and you know, at a certain point, you know, Chicho came to me and asked that we help him find a solution for for him and his family, you know, to get a fresh start, and and that's you know what I think we well,
that's what we tried to do. And what I think we did was found a solution that you know, obviously is the best for all parties.
So I'm quite prepared for a very short answer to this question, but you also understand I need to ask it. Can you shed any light on the suspension, why it happened, and the effect that it had on him and also the team.
I cannot look obviously, the you know, the club and and you know did everything that they could have done and what was were required to do and needed to do in that situation. And you know, we the league, the league went through their process and we accepted their decision and we went you know, and that's what we
dealt with. And in terms of how any of that affected chi Cho, you know, obviously I don't know what's none of us can know what's in his head, what's in his mind, But certainly we we saw what was on the field.
How much of this the decision Kurt had to do with chi Cho and his family not wanting to live here, and how much of the decision had to do with the club being ready to move on with a player that clearly was not right after the suspension went down.
Yeah, I mean I think some of that's the question for chi Cho, But I just would reiterate that I think with every with all the water that had flowed, you know, uh, float under that bridge, I think we just found the solution that was the best for all parties.
Got asked the question, you know, and I am, admittedly still after covering this game for twenty plus years, a neophyte, and you're an expert. And I'll see to you if you compare what you received in exchange for Chico to what Seattle sent out for haesusre for AA. Excuse me, the package is not close. And look, I understand that
you had to cut the tie. I understand you had to make the move, but one point four mil in allocation money and an international roster spot Kirk does not seem like a fair haul your thoughts?
Sure, I mean, I look, obviously it's it's really difficult to compare players like that and to set to set the market based on one or two or such a limited number of transactions that you're talking about at that end of end of the market. Obviously there were other opportunities.
There were other clubs, other situations, you know, outside the league, in the league, like, there were different opportunities, and you know this, you know, this ended up being the right thing from from all facets, from uh, the standpoint obviously the finances from you know, obviously it needs to be agreeable to cheat Sho and his family who are going to move there, and and also from a timing standpoint where you know, this was something that we knew was happening,
and you know, preseason is is here, and you know, like we want to we want to have our group together and move forward. So just when you factor in all the implications of the decision, this was this was the best case.
So Sally and Andres was proof of concept. I don't think anybody would debate that. But it's not just Andres. It's now cheat Joe. Now let's move over to Matt Crooks and I'll just kind of ask you the same question. Is this a scenario where Matt and his family just wanted to leave the market. Were you not satisfied with what you received for his production? I was also taken back that Crooks was said on his way. Can you shed a little light on on that decision?
Yeah, I mean, look where we try to put the players first at the club, and you know, again that means like we want players that want to be here and that are happy here, and we want to support them, and then we feel that that's the way to get the most out of them on the field. I think that with Matt and his family, you know, yeah, you kind of hit the nail on the head, like this
family situation wasn't ideal, and he was. They spent a lot of time apart last year, and for him, the biggest, the big thought process the decision was, you know, could he could he do that again? Were they going to come? Was it better to go back? And again there's a lot of tough conversations there as well, and ultimately the right opportunity came up for him to go back and
it worked for us as well. So you know, from that standpoint, it was a little bit of an unwinding of kind of what we did a year ago when we brought him in. You know, Matt's Matt's a great guy. Matt, you know, like Matt as a as a person and as a player. I thought, you know, you hit you talked about production. I don't think he lit up the
production side of things. He certainly helped us with his movement and that type of thing, but he also you know, we also we needed some production from that position as well. And that's part of the genesis of us bringing Diogo here as well, is because we felt he was someone that was going to be more goldening, just was going
to produce more from a similar position. And you know, so from that standpoint, we thought, you know, Jyoga coming in, you know, allows us to grant Matt and his family their wish essentially and get them back together.
Yeah, entirely fair about the numbers and the production. I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but every time I heard somebody talk about how far he ran, I'm like, cool, but you know, like let's get some assistants, some goals. I mean, I'm not saying you had to work hard, but.
It wasn't just how far, but it was, you know, just the he ran very you know, and maybe the satica to sound equally maybe boring to you, but he did run very intelligently in terms of, you know, the timing and direction of his runs, the pace and how it created space for guys like andreasen Chico and Luna at times, and you know how he filled He's a very intelligent player, how he filled the gaps that others last in order to continue and maintain our structure in
certain times when we were when others were a little more fluid and kind of doing whatever they wanted. He was a little bit of a blue guy that kind of made sure that our game model was still being implemented and that the team still had the right structure.
No, I totally get it. You're not wrong, But run intelligently and get your head on a ball. Let's get a couple of intelligent goals and assists. That's all I'm saying. But you're not wrong, Kurt, You're not wrong. Yeah, but you're yeah. And you and I talked about what I proceed to be a very professional approach to the season from Anderson Julio last year, who I just thought was called upon oftentimes to step in in tough scenarios, and
I thought he did a good job. Now this wasn't a hey, you're going to move on without getting some things in return, but same question take us through the mindset of moving on from Anderson Julio.
Yeah, and it was a great guy, worked hard. He he learned a lot and developed, you know, even though he didn't come here as a twenty year old. He came here a few years after that, but he he developed a lot in his time in ourselves had a
great year last year. And you know, when you've got a player around that age, as they're heading towards their thirties and they're having a career year, you know, you have to think about our you know, can you make a move here at at or near the kind of top of his market, top of his value, and if we get enough in exchange, is it worth it? And so we thought we thought that's kind of the situation.
And we were able to get obviously some money, which is important, but also a piece that solves a bit of death and competition for us on the back line and Sam Junkwa who can push guys in two different spots and give us solid solid death and two positions along the back line, So it was kind of a win win all around.
I apologize for another uncomfortable question, Kurt, but I'm gonna throw it at you anyway. I mean, look, the numbers are the numbers, and you set a club record for points, you set a club record for goals score as you reference the ending unceremonious, you qualify for the postseason, austed in the first round. You want trophies. I want you
guys to get trophies. I get it. But with all of the moves that have been made juxtaposed to what was a historic season, with the data, what does that say about the group?
What does that say to the locker room?
What does that say about the connectivity or lack thereof of the group?
I think it would send the message of trust to the players that that we have kept and are going to rely up on honestly, Like you know, we brought in you know, we talked a lot about this last summer, and we brought in a lot of guys last summer and fit the you know, made the cap stuff all work together, so we could add them then. But but we knew that part of bringing a lot of those guys in was almost preemptively replacing some guys that we
might have to move on from in the winter. So you know that some of that work was done six months ago. But again, when you talk about guys like Dominique Marshao, Tiogo Loon, you know, guys in the middle of midfield, No Hata and Mecca Poblowiez coming back from injury as well, those types of things like those Nelson Placia,
like those. You know, we're putting our trust from those guys, and I think they should feel that and that should fill them with confidence and give them the ability to play with you know, without fear.
Yeah, well said, And I do want to get into the space of the players that you're bringing in so and look, I honestly, I don't know if you can comment on some of this stuff. I just have some of the reports that are out there, and I'm certainly not an expert with Brazilian goalkeepers Raphael.
Cabral, I'm thirty four years old, know nothing about them.
But acording the reports, you guys have signed this Brazilian keeper Kurk, can you shed some light on this transaction.
I can't deal with reports.
It's not official yet.
Okay, we've signed a veteran, yeah, veteran international goalkeeper that has you know, experience playing in some of the top leagues in Europe and in South America, and so you know, we think he's going to come in and add some just experience in the locker room, but also some quality and goal and give us a little bit of a different look there.
Can you do discuss us sending Gavin Beavers on a loan to a Danish club? Are you able to discuss that?
Yeah, Look, Gav's on his way out. It's not alone, but not official yet either, but we're certainly working on that. But you know, Gas a really good young keeper and you know, played a lot of minutes for us last year. And you know, when we talk about where like obviously where he's going is kind of within a little bit of our family or cousins, whatever you want to call it.
And it was actually a really productive process to just collaborate across our ownership group and different clubs and decide what is what is the best thing for ourselves, what is the best thing for Brumby, what is the best thing for Gavin Beavers and and make the right decision for all parties. But you know, I think for him
it's getting exciting step in his career. You know. For us, obviously, you know, it makes my job harder when we lose players that, you know, homegrown players or players on a sub a roster who actually can contribute. So that makes my job harder a little bit. But but it you know, it makes sense for all parties to let him go. And yeah, that's why you saw, you know, Mason Statuahar come in today from from Orlando.
I'm glad you said the name because that's where I was going next. Okay, Mason Statue.
If I got it right. To be fair, I probably need to go check on that, but I tried.
Well, I'll trust you as opposed to the guest that was about to lob out.
But that one is official.
It is on the website, as is Kobe Henry correct center back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Mason was is someone you know, again, I think the other thing we didn't really touch on is is Zach is you know, Zach's looking like he's going to miss some significant time early in the season. So obviously we've we've brought in an experienced guy to be the guy. And then you know, Mason comes in as as someone with MLS starting experience that we think at competition and good depth is in the in the
goalkeeper group. And then you know we've revamped it otherwise completely with with the college kids coming in as well.
All right, there's a report and I know you can't discuss reports, but like you.
Know, this is the deal. I got to ask you.
You can tell me to kick Rocks and he's an Australian forward. Here we go. Okay, it's a new year. My goal is to just say yes and try things. Ariath Peel, I don't know, no idea, but it's out there that you're bringing in Australian for what is it close?
I feel like that was close. If I had to guess his name, I would say maybe the Arif Pole maybe like that. Yeah, I mean, look, obviously we brought in Locklmbrook last year. Australia is the market that we're looking at more and more. You know, we like to bring in talented young players. So signing like that, you know, would would make a lot of sense.
Oh wow, Well that's as close as we're going to get to a curded a mission.
What okay, where are the goals coming from?
We've already topked and by the way, as you referenced, you brought in a lot of players during the summer window that I think people are excited about once we see them with a training you know, a full training camp under Pablo.
I think everybody loves the Marxian kid.
I mean, you got a lot of bright options, and lest we forget, maybe your most skilled player, Diego Luna is still on the roster, so all is not lost, but you lost a lot of goals.
Where are those goals coming from, Kurt?
I mean, I think you started it already. Look, I think we came in. You know, if you go back in time a year ago and going in twenty twenty four season, you know, it seems like a no brainer now, But us relying on Luna and Andreas to come in and give us quality minutes and high level production like that wasn't a no brainer move at that time either.
And you know, we thought we had two talented young players that were going to take a step up, and they did, and credit to them, and so I think we're looking at something similar this year where you know, I think again Luna's still a young player, that is, you know, I think it's take even another step in
his development and grow and in his production. You know, Jogovinsolve is someone that came in and you know, maybe didn't quite catch the league in the first few months, but it started preseason well, and we we have high hopes for him coming in. And as I said before, I think he's someone who's from that position who's more
goal dangerous, you know, dominic Is. I mean, he'll get goals too, but I think he's just going to serve up some of the easiest goals ever for for whoever three or four other guys that are going to play with him in the attack. And so I think he can he can definitely score himself and get some assists and then look what you know at the ninth you know, honestly, I think I think, you know, I probably said it
earlier today. We're not going into the season, you know, playing a man down, like We're going to have a guy playing center forward that's going to do the things that we need in our game model, and our game models geared to creating chances for guys in our attack, and you know, we confident that the committee of attackers that we have will will score those goals.
And before I said you loose, you know, I think we just forget, like your central midfield is pretty stacked because you get Pablo Luiz back, and of course a Mecca has he's going to the national team camp and he's he's really shown to be a very bright player.
And then there there's.
Also brian A Hayda, Right, so you have that kind of three headed monster and I guess that central holding mid area, forgive my my language, how do you think that's going to play out?
And how's Pablo looking now that he's back?
Yeah, yeah, And I mean we forgot about Nelson Palacio as well, who is a very talented player. And you know, I look at Pablo has been out, you know with the exceptional kind of the beginning of last evening. He's now for eighteen months. And so for us with Pablo, it's about bringing him along in the right way so that a he stays healthy and also he like gets his sea legs under him, right. It's not something where
you bean out more or less for that long. You just pop up in and it's like nothing ever happened. It's something you gotta you gotta get into. So you know, I think Paba is obviously a very talented player that can add a lot to us, especially in possession, and you know, we're going to bring him along the right way so we can be a top contributor for us. But it's not a situation where we have to rush him in because, as you said, we've got a met we've got to hate it. We've got Nelson, you know.
So we have a good rotation of players, even with the number of games we've got playing this to play this year.
You you sleep in a night, you're hydrating, you're getting food, Like what, dude, You've been insanely busy.
One for I'm usually one for three or two for three of those three things most days.
All right, man, well it's usually the one I missed in. Fortunately I'm with you there.
Well look, you're a smart guy, so we'll trust you and we'll hope that things pan out. Not easy decisions, Kurt, Thanks for the time, man, have a good.
Week, Okay, thanks man, appreciate it.
Kurt Smid, he's the technical director for Raal saw Lake means he is the main decision maker, the sporting director, essentially the general manager. Soccer teams have different terms and I am very curious to see how this is going to play out. I mean, when you just simply look at the stats last year, they're five of their six
leading scorers scorers are gone. No excuse me, four of their five leading scorers are gone, chi Cho Andress, Anderson, Julio, Matt Crooks, Diego's back, and you know Alex Catroanas's back and Mecca's back. Oh, and they're making a bevy of moves or there's nothing that is more anxiety inducing than getting ready to interview Kurt. While I have like seven names on the list where I'm like, dude, I've never heard of this player and I have no idea how to say this name. It is wild to see this
roster turn over there. I guess we'll see how it turns out.
No, I mean, it's it's crazy to see the turnover that we talk about in college football, is, you know, something new and wild to see it on a professional soccer club over the course of one off seasons. That's something you don't see very often. So we'll be tightly tuned in to see how they handled it.
Mason Stadge Doohr nailed its stag Dohar, Yeah, you know, Orlando FC. So if you missed it, if you're an RSL fan, we'll get that up online because Kurt answered a lot of questions that I think we've all had. Zach McMath is going to be out for a good portion of the start of the season. Gavin Bievers has been moved on to a club Danish club. Two new keepers in the fold, and more moves on the way
their first match. I don't know, it's like four weeks, five weeks away, cocky caff right around the corner.
It's such an insane short offseason.