All right, what's going on drivetime Tuesday afternoon, about twelve minutes past the hour of two o'clock.
It is a gorgeous day, man, what a stretch of whether.
We have had beautiful outside about seventy two degrees clear and sunny here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. And as it is every day, it's going to have you along for the ride. Spence check, it's behind the mic. That's Porter Larson behind the glass today producing the program on this Tuesday afternoon.
We've got a lot to get to.
We have some breaking news out of the world of college athletics. Looks like Gonzaga is headed to the Big twelve according to our buddy Kyle vonnack Gura. So the latest with the ever changing shifting landscape and conference additions, conference subtractions, you know the deal now when it comes to college athletics. So we'll get to some of that on the show today. A recalibrated Big twelve right in front of us. We did our Big twelve Power rankings yesterday.
Both Porter and I had Byu atop the Big twelve Power rankings, Iowa state number two.
I had Utah at four. So we'll see if the youths can.
Get back out of you know, Arizona did have a bye between k State and Utah and a lot of the conversation out of the Arizona side of things, as they felt like Saturday was going to be a get right game for them in Utah get right against Arizona State after a bye week. The latest on cam Rising, the latest on the quarterback situation. Dennis Dodd from CBS did a piece today and he kind of took Utah
to task or the way they're disseminating their information. So we'll get to all the latest on the college football landscape. Look at to a busy week six nationally, not so much locally all although Utah State is back at it after a bye taking on Boise State. Some really good national games on the slate coming up this weekend, So we'll get you ready for a busy college football weekend ahead on the program today with some good college football guests.
The weekends in pro football came to a close last night with some Monday Night football. One pretty good game, one dog game. The Titans just smoked the Dolphins. That guy Tyler Huntley struggled, he did rush for a touchdown, but Miami looks like they're in big trouble without Tu and the Titans decided the bench will Levis. We'll see if that's something that they continue to kind of roll with because they were actually able to find some success
with Levis on the sideline. The Lions absolutely put it on Seattle offensively forty two to twenty nine. That was a fun game in Detroit, Jared Goff with a record breaking performance.
So we'll get to some NFL on the show today.
Gets ready for Week five coming up, and of course you can hear all the NFL action on this radio station. Week five starts on Thursday, Little Buccaneers Falcons action down in Atlanta at Mercedes Benz Stadium.
Then a bunch of great.
Games on Sunday in the NFL will culminate with only one Monday night game. It's the Saints and the Chiefs at Arrowhead in Kansas City. The Utah Jazz open up training camp. We'll do a little Jazz on the show today, do a little NBA on the show today. We haven't talked a tot about that massive deal that was made while we were away with the Knicks and the Timberwolves making a big time trade, so we'll do a little jazz on the show one day away from game day.
From match day for RSL, they.
Welcome in Minnesotay're coming up tomorrow night at seven point thirty at America First Field, trying to hold onto a top four seed in order to host a home playoff match.
All the ladies with RSL on the show as well.
The Utah Hockey Club is high speed ahead to their opener as the Blackhawks are in town coming up next week, and obviously one I over there as excited for pro hockey to land on our market.
Major League Baseball wildcard action.
The Tigers lead the Astros three zero, bottom of the six there, so fall means a lot of things, and it certainly means baseball playoffs, which I've always really enjoyed.
All right, good guest, listen for you guys on this Tuesday afternoon.
We'll start things off with Joe Fort and ba I will talk a little little college in pro football with Joe.
He's gonna stop by today.
Richard Smith joins us, coming up at three o'clock the Tryumph Return of Smitty.
He'll roll by today.
Scott Mitchell, former Utah quarterback, one of the best to ever do it is our guest in the four o'clock hour. Then the voice himself, who is now off the pressure that came with potential of Utah defeated season. The Bill Riley Mullet watches over. Let's see if I can corner.
Maybe we'll make him grow a mustache. If Utah wins against Arizona State, I don't know, we'll see so Joe Fort and Bob Richard Smith, Scott Mitchell, Bill Riley, me Spence check ats, all of you the great listeners on this Tuesday, and that guy Porter Larson on a Tuesday afternoon.
Tuesdays during the football season hit a little differently.
At least we have Major League Baseball playoff action, Little NBA basketball, Utah Hockey Club as well.
How how's your Tuesday afternoon?
Yeah, man, Tuesdays until mid October. I'm just waiting, waiting, waiting until we get action on our Tuesday television scrip.
I've told you this before.
Just do what I do and record maction from years past and then when there's no football, just watching on your DVR right.
Right, And I'm getting to that point. But luckily for me, my Mets are surviving. And advancing at least until today got the wild card matchups as you mentioned, so a little nervous as we approach the first pitch of that one, but that's holding me over at this point until we get some football and of course a bye week for the Utes, but plenty of other college football storylines to.
Get to the week. Little break, little breaking news on a Tuesday.
According to Ian Rappaport, Devonte Adams has requested a trade from the Raiders, and you kind of understand why.
So little NFL news on a Tuesday afternoon.
All right, our first guest today is Joe Fordenbaugh, so we'll get you ready for a busy weekend ahead Ian Pro and college football with Joe. But before we catch up with Joe on a Tuesday, courteousy of our friends at Standard Restaurant supply, it's your tailgate headquarters.
Get everything you need to make your tailgate epic.
Check them out at thirty five hundred Southwest Temple and online at Standard restaurant dot com.
On a Tuesday afternoon, it's time now for your opening tip.
Welcome to the Drive with Spence. Check its on Utah's number one Sports Talk. Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurant Supply, your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurant Supply thirty five hundred Southwest Temple.
So the University of Utah on the football side of things, has a bye week this week and then they're back in action coming up next week against Arizona State. Arizona State was off to a really good start to the year, and you know.
They might be a little bit better than most people thought.
We have not seen a line released, nor will we that's going to be an eight thirty pm kick. We do have that down in Tempe, Arizona, and you're hoping on the Utah football side that they're able to do what Arizona just did, utilizing their bye week to make sure that they have quote a get right game. Now, that was kind of the narrative from the Arizona side of things before last Saturday, when the Wildcats rolled in a Rice Cycle stadium and quite frankly just undressed the Utes.
Twenty three to ten was the final score, and prior to that, Arizona went to Case State and they got stopped. And so a lot of people were saying, on the Arizona Arizona side of things, let's utilize the bye week, let's get healthy a little bit, and let's make sure Saturday at Rice Cycle Stadium was quote a get right game. And that's what it was for the Wildcats. They looked fresh, they looked healthy, they looked rested, they got a couple
of players back during the bye week. For Feet, it was awesome, you know, he was able to evade a lot of pressure and make a lot of plays.
And of course, the conversation around here with a.
Bye week is this, will this be enough to get Cameron Rising ready, not just for Arizona State, but for the rest of the season. So Dennis Dodd, front of the show, joined us during Big twelve media days. He wrote a piece today for CBS, really kind of taking the University of Utah to task for the way they've handled them messaging, because, of course, his status is week by week, and as I've said on the show, I'm going to operate off the assumption that it's eyes that
can tell it's not. But this continues to be kind of the main topic, not just around here, but folks that you know cover college football big picture style, like a guy like Dennis Dodd. Now it's very important to be clear that this is not just a coach with thing. Kaladie Satake right now is dealing with some injuries to his running back room, and he has taken a page out of his former boss's book by being very vague about the status of LJ. Martin and some others. This
it takes place all over the country. You know, this is not just a Utah thing. It feels like around here it's been spun into just a Utah thing and just a Kyle Whittingham thing.
It's not.
And it really depends on your opinion of what actually you know is at stake when you report injuries. Do you believe that it is a competitive advantage? I think Kyle does. I think he's made that very clear. And if you're only to win football games, as I've talked about, and that's coach, which job, you have to utilize every single piece of ammunition at your disposal to make sure your team is in the best spot possible. Now, there's a very legitimate debate as to whether or not it
actually is a competitive advantage. As I referenced I think yesterday, Jim Harbaugh has always scoffed at that notion that it is a competitive advantage, and he's always reported even when he hasn't had to. He's talked openly about when he was in college. Obviously he's in the pros now with the Chargers, and pro coaches have no choice but to report. But even when he didn't have to report, he kind of scoffed at the notion that this really is a
competitive advantage. So ultimately, I'm just going to repeat a little bit what I said yesterday. I don't agree with the portion of the Utah fan base that wants to move on from Cameron. You know, Dennis Dodd himself, in his piece today quoted a bunch of different youth fans that he's heard from about what their preferences are as far as what next under center. One of them said, quote, it's time to move on from an injury prone starter. Yes, thank you for your heart and grit, but I believe
at this point he's doing more harm than good. Cam went all fall getting QB one reps, and now he stands on the sidelines watching again for the second year in a row cam is the highest paid nil player on the team, and there's not much return on that investment.
And guys, I said it like.
The unfortunate part of this whole thing is that money does change the way people feel about how you're performing at work.
It just does. If you're a lawyer and it's pro bono.
It's different if you're being paid millions of dollars to do your work. If you're a college athlete and you're a quote amateur.
Which was never really a thing.
It was invented to distract everybody from the fact that the business was being built on the backs of employees they didn't pay. But for years there was this kind of unspoken rule in broadcasting where you just don't crack on college kids. You just don't because they're not paid for their endeavors, and essentially they are unpaid employees because there are a lot of people getting rich off their backs. Now that's changed, and because that's changed, people are going
to feel differently about the situation. I'll repeat what I said yesterday and I'll continue to send people towards a couple of things. Number One, Chris Camaradi's article from The Athletic when he had access to Cam, when he had access to Cam's family, and for the first time, at least in my opinion, on the record, Cameron Risen spoke about the dark days and nights he had last year trying to get back from what was a horrific knee injury. This was not an acl this is not a sprain.
He blew up his knee. And that's why when I was doing the math last year, because you know, we all heard the rhetoric, we all heard the propaganda, the walking line that ultimately talked about Cam potentially being back for Florida. I didn't buy that for a second and I didn't have any information on it. You just do the math from when Cameron hurt himself last January.
What that injury entails.
That injury takes a year, oftentimes sometimes more. Oftentimes sometimes it never is the same. So I'd never thought that he was playing last year. And honestly, I can take you to feel bad for him because the way they've handled the dissemination of information, the way they've handled the messaging, I guarantee Cam doesn't have one iota of a percent of how that goes down.
This is not on him, and ultimately he's hurt.
He just is and I know injuries suck, and I know a lot of people are frustrated about the way it's been handled. And yes, according to what Dennis Dodd wrote and some of the feedback he received from Utah fans, there is a portion of the fan base that's ready to move on. Altogether, I think that's a slippery slope because I still believe, as we saw on Saturday, Isaac's got a long way to go if Utah wants to
compete and win the Big Twelve this year. I still believe Cameron has to be under centered for the majority of the season.
They're gonna have to get more from Isaac for sure.
Whether he starts against Arizona State, there will be reps that Isaac will take the rest of the way because the data is in and Cam has a tough time staying healthy. And I just have never bought the premise that you can retrain somebody like Cameron Rising, who is a competitor, who wants to go out and give it his all, to play differently in order to stay healthy, because essentially he cut his legs out from underneath him. One of the things that makes Cam great is that
he wants to compete, he wants to play. He's not afraid to take a hit. He'll take off and gain yards if he needs to. And yes, it would be great for everybody if he played a little bit safer. You know, discretion the better form of valor in order to stay healthy. But guys, the dad is in Okay,
we don't need to see anymore. So for you Tid to win the Big twelve, Yes, I believe they need Cam under center, but I do believe Isaac needs more reps with the ones because he has to stay ready so he doesn't have to get ready as the kids would say, when the inevitability and that, yes, that is the term I will use comes back down into play where they need him under center again because Cam's not readier, Cam's not healthy. But it's an interesting read if you
want to check out cbssports dot com. Dennis Dodd, you know the latest to kind of take you Todd a task about the way they've handled this and ultimately how much negative attention is falling on the shoulders of Cam because of the way they've decided to handle it. And
it's not Cam's fault. I continue to stay on that My heart goes out to him, and I hope that he gets back soon, and hopefully with the bye week and then a game against a good but pretty beatable team and Arizona State, hopefully Utah can do to Arizona State what Arizona did to Utah after a bye week and have a quote get right game coming up down in Tempe on the fifth, six o'clock. Excuse me, that's the wrong, wrong kickoff. Let me let me get you the right kickoff coming up in Tempe on the eleventh.
It's a bye week, eight thirty. It's a late kick on ESPN against Arizona State. No line has been released on that game. Just shit, all right, Before we catch a break, I want to tell you about my friends at Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the best place to get real money sports action. With over ten million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings, Prize Picks has
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Right here time for return of Richard Smith. Today, Smitty stops by the Utah Jazz open up training camp this week, and we'll also discuss that massive deal that went down between the Tea Wolves and the New York Knickerbockers. Scott Mitchell, former Utah quarterback, and then Bill Riley, the voice of the Youths two for more college football, but joining me now on a Tuesday, Excited for this. I've never had a chance to interview Joe Fordenbaugh from ESPN.
Joe, Happy Tuesday, sir.
How are you happy Tuesday? I'm doing well. More importantly, thanks so much for the invite to come on the show today. I agree, I greatly appreciate it. Apologies. I started losing my voice late last week and I never got an opportunity to bring it all the way back. It seemed like I had something going on every single day between a show or a taping or a benefit or an event something we were doing. And I'm just trying to get this thing back into shape. And I
think I got enough for you here. I'm trying to hit the high octaves for you.
No worries, man, I appreciate the time. So I was just curious.
About your path right because obviously you're on ESPN, BET we see you on TV I have ESPN on up in the studio every day. Do you fill it out here in Salt Lake City? You've got the Carlin Versus job Monday through Friday. But were you always want to lean into odds and lines and betting or what was your career path that led you to where you're at now?
Joe undergrad at Penn State Law School in San Diego, and I originally wanted to be an NFL agent. I wanted to work in sports in some capacity, so that's the reason I went to law school. It turns out the agent I interned for when I was in law school started a website in two thousand and eight called National Football Post, and I got a job managing the website, writing about fantasy football, kind of doing all the day
to day stuff. There was an agent, there was a former NFL general manager, former salary cap guy, former player, presenting all that stuff from an inside perspective, and a couple of years into it, I decided I wanted to write about sports betting. I had been betting since I was younger, playing parlay sheets and all that nonsense, and I just figured, you know, chat Miltman was like the only guy doing it at ESPN, so I started writing about it a little bit, and then I just decided
to pick up and move to Las Vegas. I was living back in Pennsylvania at the time. I had a two thousand dollars maxed out credit card. I had like no money to my name, but I figured, let's go out there. Let's do this right. Let's meet all the bookmakers, Let's meet all the professional betters, Let's learn how the industry works, let's write about it, let's figure it out.
And while I was doing that, I ended up landing a job very circuitous route, where I got a morning show offer to move to San Francisco and do radio up there. But while I was up there, I continue podcasting and writing about sports betting and then move in twenty eighteen Pastbao got repealed. Network started looking for people,
and I just kind of held out for ESPN. I was one of the only guys out there that had been doing this for a while, so I ended up having some opportunities and I ran with it from there. So I'm very fortunate caught a lot of breaks along the way. There's a lot of people to thank at every turn that were there to help me.
Fair enough. Well, that's good stuff.
Let's do a little NFL today and I I wonder what sort of trends. There's a piece up today by Steven Holder about the noticeable decline in passing yards. What sort of trends have you noticed early on in pro football? Just through a few a few weeks, four weeks now that Navy have caught you off guard.
That's the big one, the too high safety. Right defenses are playing a lot more cover too, and as a result, it's been limiting the big plays on offense, suppressing scoring a little bit, limiting some player props in terms of quarterback passing yards, things of that nature. Right, and then on top of it, we didn't see a lot of key players playing in the preseason, so they came into the year rusty. I think all that's going to regress. The scoring will pick up here in my opinion, as
we move forward. But that's one of the angles you can look for. Running backs have been having a lot of success this season going against the too high because that's how you counter it. You just run the ball. They're light in the box, so that's what you take advantage of if you're looking for a couple of key trends too that I've been monitoring that date back to last season that have been really successful betting against the Kansas City Chiefs in the first half, betting on Kansas
City Chiefs in the second half. They have been a really slow starting team going back to early last season, and it was on full display in the Super Bowl and most of their playoff games, like they would not cover the spread in the first half, and we've been seeing it all year, and then they come back and they win these games. Baltimore is the opposite. Baltimore is a team you bet on in the first half and
then you bet against him in the second half. And I know you just had for NFL, But I throw this on top because it's a college angle, but it leads right into it. Tennessee had coached Josh Heipel. He coached at Central Florida for three years now. He's in his fourth year at Tennessee. In the first half, he's hitting seventy percent against the spread, and if he's on the road, he's hitting seventy six percent of the time on the first half line. It's incredible how good his
team is. Guess what they're coming off the buy, They're on the road at Arkansas this week. They're like a seven point favorite in the first half. Absolute auto play.
For me out here now in Big twelve Country formerly known as PAC twelve Country with the University of Utah, YU has been in the Big twelve now for a couple of years. You know, for me, I have a hard time deciphering what's real and what isn't in this conference. Is it safe to say that the Big twelve has provided the most chaos so far in college football?
Or would you go in a different direction?
Yeah? No, I would say that, And I would also tell you that that's exactly what the professional betters were predicting before the season started, because there were three teams you could look at and say, all right, these are the three teams that have a good chance of winning this conference. And the odds kind of reflected these three teams as being close to one part with one another Utah,
Oklahoma State, and Kansas State. But as great as that Utah win oh Oklahoma State two weeks ago was the loss against Arizona and against all that, right, it brings everyone right back into play. And Kansas State's had their struggles, Oki States had their struggles. We see what's going on with some of the other teams. So it's been a very intriguing conference throughout the course of the So, to answer your question in a long, roundabout way, yeah, it's
the wildcard Conference. There's still a lot to like. I would love to get a straight answer on what's going on with Cam Rising because I still think it's Utah. I still think Utah is a good bet to make the playoffs. But at some point we got to figure out what's going on with the starting quarterback because there's a couple of key games down the stretch that they're going to need him for.
So it's funny you mentioned that because I wanted to kind of kick the tires with you on the way that the University of Utah has elected to handle the situation, and ultimately Kyle Whitdeham, their head coach, doesn't give a rip about whether or not fans are mad if the quarterback is not playing or if he is playing, nor does he give a rip with the media.
Has to say about it.
But I wonder, Joe, and this is in your wheelhouse in a way that it's just not in mine. I mean, the modern day situation in all sports really is that betting has kind of changed the game and college football, in my opinion, is not his front facing and obvious about how they're in bed with the gambling companies. But thefl certainly is there are QR codes and the NBA games,
you get the deal. Do you think now that the reality is sports of all kinds, since they've embraced the gambling and the apps and the companies, that at some point just every school is going to have to you know, it'll be a mandate that you have to report injuries.
They do it in the SEC, but they don't do it in the Big twelve.
Do you think we're i speed ahead to a mandate for every member institution that plays football.
It's such an interesting question because it has such a complicated answer in regards to you, Tahl. If they're not being forced to give you that information, I would do the same thing Willingham Winningham's doing. Excuse me, I'd be doing the exact same thing. I would be playing Coy. He did this last year with the knee injury to start the season, and he's been doing it with the hand. So why give your opponent any information you don't have
to give them now? To the future, the directness is going. It kind of stills the Wild West with nil and the way the transfer portal works, and we all know
what happened at UNLV with their quarterback. It's only a matter of time before contracts come into play, and then we find ourselves with the situation in which there's probably a players union, and we start to get to a point where we're just making another professional football league, right like, there's gonna be the NFL, and then there's gonna be a handful of college teams that make up this new professional league, and then the ones that can't keep up
financially are probably going to play a more traditional version of college football, and that'll be what we're looking at. And when that happens, yes, we're gonna need injury reports just like we get in the NFL, and there will be some gamesmanship. I'm sure the Niners did that with Christian McCaffrey to start the season, but ultimately we won't have the situations like we're having at the University of Utah, which, again, to be fair, if I'm in his shoes, I'm doing
that exact same thing. I don't see any reason to give out information if you're not being for Sue.
Yeah, well said, Well said, And that's why you know. I know fans are frustrated. I know the communities frustrated because we get a game time decision week in and week out, and then the game comes and he doesn't play.
And certainly it does remind.
Folks of a year ago as far as the same situation happening week in and week out.
I do feel bad for the player.
I feel bad for Cam because he's just hurt, and then once he's healthy, I think he's going to play.
But let me follow up with a question about Utah.
You already referenced that you feel like they should be the favorite to make the playoff and win the Big Twelve if Cam's under center. What if he's not, What does that do to your opinion? What if it is this eighteen year old true freshman Isaac Wilson the rest of the season, You'd still think Utah can get it done in the Big Twelve.
No, I gotta knock him out. And to be honest with you, that kills me because I have a massive bet on Utah winning that conference and going oh for nine and a half.
Wins this season.
It was one of my favorite bets this year. So outside of the Great Salt Lake region, Like, I'm probably watching it as much Utah football as anybody out there, and I think Wilson has made some big time throws. He's got the arms strength, he's got that arm talent you talk about at the next level. I've watched him make some plays the second half of the Utah State game. He did what he needed to do to win that
game and bring him back. But the thing is they are way too inconsistent on offense, Like they've got no pop. They have got to be able to hang points quickly in certain spots. Arizona's not good. I'm sorry, but they're not a good team. They got rolled up a couple weeks before that game, and that was a great spot for them because they're coming off the buy and Utah was off that war at Oklahoma State. But there's no excuse for losing that game and playing to that extent.
So Wilson down the road, maybe next season's got some potential. But late in the season, you've got the UCF game, which I know doesn't look all that daunting now because they just lost to Colorado. You got Colorado on the schedule, there's at least one other one that I'm blanking on
right now that's going to be somewhat challenging. And while it's not overwhelming, the fact that you beat Oklahoma State, which was the only spot off season where you were going to be an underdog, and then you blew it the next week Arizona, you just kind of flushed all that good will, like everything was set to just survive Arizona and then kind of reset with the bye week
and everything. So, no, if you told me right now it's gonna be Wilson the rest of the way, I tell you they're losing at least one more game.
So the one game you may be blanking and I don't, I won't hold you accountable for this is probably the BYU game here in Salt Lake.
That's great call.
BYU has been very good this season.
Sure, And that's where I want to follow up because you know Kalaatee Satake, their head coach, used to be the decordinator up here.
I used to do a coach a show with him weekly, So he's.
A friend, don't I don't hide the fact that I want him to succeed so he can keep his job.
Joins the show, so does their offensive coordinator.
We're the home of the Utes, and of course we want Utah to do well, but it's better around here when both of these teams are good. So my question, Joe, as of today, how good do you think BYU.
Is by who's been very good? And I think that's the thing that's caught some people by surprise. They were not projected to be one of those teams that was going to make a lot of noise in the conference this season, right, Like, there was some upside there, but anywhere you went, at least from the stuff I read from people who are professional gamblers and handicap this, they were kind of seen as like an on the fringe sort of team that might make a little noise, but
we weren't going to take them too seriously. But again, that leads into the whole wildcard factor of the Big twelve conference in general, and they've proven to take advantage of the opportunities that are out there with the Big three stumbling early and often throughout the course of the season. So, given what I've seen with the Flaws and the other teams, so much of this comes down to key scheduling spots,
like what's just happened to Utah? The idea of playing this war and then the next week you got to play someone coming off of bye week. That stuff is so important in college football, and I don't think people realize that enough. You know, the third road game in four weeks, or the matchup this weekend, for example, Alabama, they're off a huge win and they're laying twenty four against Vanderbilt. I think Vanderbilt is a great best weekend. I think this is a really flat spot for Alabama.
I think they end up winning, yes, but I take Vanderbilt plus the point. This is their super Bowl.
Man.
So back to your original question, Yes, I think BYU is what we'd call live to win this conference because so far, what we've seen is that it's wide open and no one has seized upon the opportunities that have been given them through the first month plus of the season.
You know, Deon Sanders, of course, is a lighting rod for attention and either a polarizing figure depending on what you believe about him. I appreciate the attention he brings to this region and this conference, but I don't think a lot of people thought we'd be sitting here Joe talking about BYU Texas Tech and then Colorado atop the conference two and oh four and one through five. Where are you at as of today on Colorado's chances of maybe even getting this thing done winning?
Are are they among the contenders to win the Big twelve?
You see, I might be the worst possible person to ask about this because I came into the season and I was the same way last year. I sold him as a very overvalued football team because you got a lot of public money backing them up. You got a lot of hype, but the team isn't good enough to mess that hype, so there's opportunities to bet against them. And last year I looked like a fool early in
the season because they kept winning. But then eventually I had my day and they stumbled down the stretch, and there were a lot of profitable opportunities there. Specifically, that Oregon game that spread early in the year was way too short. So now here we are again. I had them dead to rights in that UCF game. It was their third road game in four weeks. They were off a huge win. UCF was off the by they were going to play in the humidity in Florida, That was
earmark for a UCF win. They were two touchdown favorites, and they got their rear ends kicked in that game, absolutely kicked. That I think was the best win I've seen from Deon Sanders in the last couple of seasons he's been in Colorado. Very impressive to overcome the spot like that and to put a whoop in on a team to that extent. So I probably will continue to doubt them. I will consider them overrated because I worry about the offensive line and I worry about the defense
outside of Travis Hunter. But they've been proving me wrong left and right. So mark my words on this one. If we need to circle back in a few weeks and you need to shove it right in my face, you go ahead and do so. I'm going down with that ship. But he's been proving me wrong so far this season.
Back to the NFL. Which team, Maybe it's just the Vikings because they're undefeated. Which team has been the most difficult to kind of nail down as far as is this real through four weeks? Which has been the most And you can throw out a couple of names if you want, Joe, but the most difficult NFL team to.
Try to understand what's happening right now.
I think it's the teams that zigzag that's the thing. Like the Vikings are a pleasant surprise, but I think we've learned that they're good. Right Like, maybe they're not great, but look at them. They're four and oh, they've got a great defense, quarterbacks number one in the NFL quarterback rating, and they've beaten the Niners, the Texans and the Packers
and that was a road game. Like those are three teams that were people were picking them to go to the conference championship and win the Super Bowl this year, right like, that is the most impressive strength of schedule in the NFL so far. So they deserve all the respect in the world. It's no longer a question of whether or not they're good, it's just like, are they great?
The teams that are kind of like head scratchers trying to figure them out, the Saints, the Falcons, right the Bucks, almost everybody in the NFC South outside of Carolina, because they've shown some promise, but they've also stumbled all over themselves. I think a team like Pittsburgh might be a little bit overvalued because they're winning all these one score games. I think Kansas City is definitely overvalued. They're four and oh with four to one score wins, like every opportunity
has been there for the opposition to beat them. I don't think people realize how close Kansas City is to being zero to four. But that's what great teams do. They find ways to win ugly games. So those are the teams that kind of get me, Like these teams that might be two and two right now, where we've seen them play really well in some games and sloppy in others. It's hard to get a gauge.
So opening the season, as you know, Vegas was kind of telling us that if you're going to lay a bet on the Super Bowl, you should look to Kansas City or San Francisco. And then there was a big gap between those two and then you got into like the Baltimore's.
And the Buffalos.
Through four weeks, What do the number say about the best teams in pro football right now?
You know, Kansas City's still sitting at the top. Naturally, they're undefeated, And the thing is, it's not so much that they're undefeated, it's that no one else has made a great case, like who is there. There was Buffalo, but they were three and zero against three bad teams and then they went out there and they got their bucks kicked by a good team. So how good are they? Speaking of Baltimore, all right, they're two and two, but they've had some sloppy spots this season, and we all
know about their struggles in the playoffs. The Jets coaching is definitely a problem. It's going to prevent them from being great. They can be good, but Robert salav is going to prevent them from being great. Houston, I think's got vulnerabilities, and nobody's challet in the West with all those injuries to the Chargers right now. So ultimately the
AFC is the Chiefs. It's hard to find someone else to say, yeah, I really believe in in thirteen here, like the Steelers, because I think quarterback play is going to be a struggle there. Eagles, Cowboys down in the NFC. You got to give a lot of respect to Minnesota. Okay, you've got to respect Detroit. They should be undefeated. That one loss. They gave that game away. They were one for seven in the red zone. They outgained Tampa Bay
by two hundred and fifty total yards. Detroit's probably the best team in my opinion in the NFC, and Minnesota's right there with them. Green Bay is going to be formidable. And then I want to say Seattle. I really want to believe in Seattle, but they feel like they're one year away from being a serious threat. That was a good opportunity for them last night, and they showed some moxie, but they got some problems. That was their first big test and they got crushed defensively.
All right, Joe, Before I say you, Louise, I'm gonna ask you the same question that I asked you about the NFL and ask you about archies me, I'm gonna ask you out college football. We already talked big twelve, but big picture juxtaposed to how everything started. What do the numbers say about the teams that are legitimately going to be in it at the end to win the whole thing?
Well, I mean, Bama is just getting all the love in the world right now because of that win, and how could you not give it to them? I would say, don't downgrade Georgia by too much because they went on the road. They showed a lot of guts coming all the way back in that game to take the lead late. I think they I think they still very much deserve
everybody's respect. Oldness showed us their true colors. Anytime you put pressure on Lane Kiffin and say it's gonna be his year, anytime you put expectations on him, they're gonna flop that. That's that's as right as rain in the springtime in the Northeast, Like you know that that's coming. So I would look around, I would say, I can't wait to see Ohio State get tested, because we haven't
talked about them at all this season. I think Tennessee deserves a lot of respect because everyone focuses on the offense and the big play production, but on top of that, defensively, they find a way to get some stops. And I know MC State isn't great, but they throttle them. And I know Oklahoma isn't great, but they've throttled them. They've got some reputable teams on their schedule and they've absolutely kicked everybody's butt. So that's the team I'm kind of
watching right now. They got two big tests the rest of the way, one of which is going to be Alabama. Very interested to see how the rest of the season goes for Tennessee.
Joe, I appreciate the time, man, keep up the great work. We'd love to do it again.
Suon Okay, it.
Was my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on the show.
All right, Joe Fordon Baugh he is on ESPN the ESPN BET Live show on ESPN two. Has a radio show called Carlin Versus Joe Monday through Friday noon to three. That's Eastern time on ESPN Radio. Get him on Twitter, just his name at Joe Fordenbaz where you find him. All Right, before we catch a break, I want to tell you about my friends at Clearwater Distilling. Clear Water Distilling is the only distillery in Utah County open on Sundays. Great spirits. They've got a tasting room and the nicest
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He's deprived of Norwich, Connecticut and an adopted son of Salt Lake City. After forty years with the Utah Jazz, there's no one better to talk some hoops. Richard Smitty Smith is back on the drive on ESPN seven hundred.
All right, Scott Mitchell is gonna roll by coming up in about an hour from right now, and then Bill Riley will join us. Following Scott's hit. Bill's gonna join us at four point thirty. So back to some college football, some good stuff with Joe Fordenba today talking a little pro football, little college football.
But it's been too long.
We have our guy back in studio forty years with the Jazz front office and now just living the dream.
Richard Smith, Smitty, Happy Tuesday, buddy. How are we doing?
It is a dream too, I know.
Look look look where I've gotten the station in life that I've gotten to right now, we're on the opening act for the big hitters like Scott Mitchell and Bill Riley.
How about that? Yeah, I mean we would have thunk it. This is the you caught the final branch, Smittie. We're your final branch. We're propping you up. But we appreciate your time.
Man.
How you been What's what's What's what's been going on with you?
Hey?
We've been on this this worldwide tour that my wife and I have been on all year and in and out of town every month. We have something going on. And we were back and got my my final two baseball parks in and uh so I've got all thirty ballparks under my belt. We did that and went to the US open, and then went down a couple of weeks ago down to Phoenix to see Green Day and
concert and a couple of baseball games. And now next week because of our good friend Wesley Rouff and thanks again the West, he he got me in with Gina down at the the PGA tournament at Black Desert. So we're gonna volunteer and work down there next week and and have some fun seeing the course for the first time. I know, I know, guys like you've been down there mastering the course.
For VIP playing.
Yeah, I got it.
I got it, man, And that's why I'll be down there working and probably emptying the garbage cans or or doing something.
But like I said, living the dream. It sounds like.
All right, before we do, little Jazz, I wanted to you know, we said goodbye to the bees here in the Capital City last week. I wasn't able to get down there last week, and I have been to a couple of games this year. Wanted to make sure I got to a couple before they moved. And you were there, and our guy Frank was there. I wonder what that
was like. Frank has been such a fixture at that ballpark and you have two and after thirty years, they're heading down south to Daybreak, And you know, I'm a fan of the Miller's obviously with what Gail, Larry before Gail, and then both of them, then Gail as the lone steward after Larry's passing, and I believe in their plan. You know, I've had Steve starkson studio and if the endgame here is major League Baseball, which we all hope
it is, I understand it. I live in Salt Lake, so it's a little bit of a bummer for me and excited for our friends and daybreaks to experience it.
But what was it like to be there for the final time with Frank, Yeah, it was.
It was interesting. It was very It was very emotional, just from the standpoint that while you're there and at the end of the game, they let everybody come down and like run the bases or kind of just experience
being on the field for a moment, you know. And they usually do that with young kids after weekend games, or run the bases, but they they just let everybody come down and there were older folks down there with their with their canes and just walking, you know, from from home to first or whatever, just to be on the field one last time, and it was, uh, it
was quite emotion think about it. Spencer Andy Larson did a great piece on this prior to it, uh with the sole A Tribune that that you know, baseball has been played on the corner of West Temple and Thirteenth South for almost one hundred years, you know, and now it's uh, uh it's going away. I you know, I'm
in the same boat with you. I get it. You know, Hey, look we're doing this with the Bees and and and uh the week later, the Oakland A's at the major league level are doing it, you know, in Oakland, and they're leaving, and you know, and that's just you know that that's happened over the course of time and in pro sports and teams leave and and and so forth. But you know, they're not leaving the market, o leaving
for a different venue. But one of the misnomers, uh, I want to throw out there just to correct for people who who think that was the closing of the ballpark and and that uh, and that baseball is done there. Actually, next spring, Utah Baseball will still be playing one more year at Smith's Ballpark as their ballpark being built up
at the university campus. Uh is being finished, so there'll actually be some baseball played their next spring as a as a last hurrah if you will, for for people who want to get down there and and see it one more time.
Uh.
But but it was emotional. They had a great Phil Collins song playing over the speakers at the end of the game, you know about going home and stuff and and uh uh.
You know it was Uh, it was.
It got a little tearful as you were walking out and going this, I guess this is it.
This is this is the end of it.
Certainly, Frank can speak for himself, as we all know, and I'll ask him this next time I have the opportunity, But I wonder if you could shed some light on what it was like for him. Seventh innen stretch. You know, that's his deal, man, So what do you think it was like for Frank?
No, And I'll tell you what. He was in great form.
He not only did the seventh inning stretch and take me out to the ball game, but he had added just a little, a little ten second note at the end of it about We're gonna miss your old ballpark and we love you. And God bless everybody you know that's been coming here all these years, or something something to that effect. And it was very heartfelt, and I know, as Frank, only Frank can do. He spoke from the heart and right off the top, and it was a nice conclusion, you.
Know, to it help help me remember Abbottsfield Brooklyn Dodgers, Yes, right, I mean maybe one of, if not the most famous baseball teams to get out of town. Yeah, Frank, Frank was a fan, right, and so he watched the Brooklyn Dodgers become the Los Angeles.
You saw them move from Brooklyn after the fifty seventh season, and most people forget or or you know, if you're not a real baseball fan, maybe not aware that both New York City and it's heyday in the forties and fifties when all the teams were competitive, the Brooklyn Dodgers, the New York Yankees of course in the Bronx, and then the New York Giants. They were over in the Polo Grounds, which from a physical standpoint, you could walk
from one to the other. They were only like three miles apart, but three three big time major league teams, and after the fifty seventh season, the Dodgers leave Brooklyn to go to la and the Giants leave the Polo Grounds and go to San Francisco. And it was actually a time when both the owners got together, of the Dodgers and the Giants, and said, hey, we're gonna move. Yeah, you're gonna move, because we're not gonna move unless you're moving. Yeah,
we'll do this together. We'll do it at the same time, so we'll be natural rivals on the West coast, which you know, just transferred the rivalry from the East Coast to the West coast. But they actually there was a moment in time spence during all that where the two owners were trying to negotiate, now, where do you want to go? Yeah, well we were thinking about well, I don't know, we kind of liked that too, but what
do you think about? And they actually just kind of sat in a room one night and just hashed it out and said, well, we'll go to San Francisco, Okay, Yeah, that'll be okay. Ye are you sure because we're gonna go to l Yeah okay. And so it was easy as that, but both of them made the move with the idea that we have to we have to make get more revenue from where we are now. And not only was it tendance, but it was also in concessions.
It was also parking because if you had knew anything about Brooklyn and the Polo Grounds, there was no parking around those venues, and so it was all you know, you know, hit and miss and for the fans and all that. So they both moved west. They both built ballparks where they owned the parking around the structure around the facility. So and to this day it's still the same. Obviously, in La Chavez Ravine, you go to a Dodger game, you have to park in the Dodgers parking lot because
there's nowhere else to go. Now, there's some people who park down the street like two miles away and they make the half hour walk or whatever. But realistically, they built it and they surrounded the ballpark with a three hundred and sixty degree parking lot. So you go to a Dodger game, you have to pay them to park, and of course they owned the concession, so they got all this money. And that's how they built up their their farm system in the sixties and seventies and became
very competitive and obviously still are today. And the Giants did the same thing when they originally moved you know, west and got Candlestick Park.
Yeah, you know, leveland Browns, the Baltimore Raven stuff. Like, communities lose their teams all the time. One more thing on this though, because I found myself a little, I don't know, a little, I guess sympathetic to the folks in Oakland because now they've lost the Warriors, they've lost the Raiders, and they've lost the A's. Now, as you just outlined the motivation behind all these moves, it's one thing.
It's one thing.
Only the golden rule is the man with the gold makes the rules, and folks trying to you know, generate more revenue and create more revenue streams, parking and such in the Bay Area, I guess has provided that for the Warriors in a way that Oakland, I guess couldn't hang on to the Raiders. And now they've lost their baseball team. What do you make of when a community like that. I mean, it's one thing for Salt Lake
to lose our minor league baseball team. To daybreak, if you want to go see the Bees, you just have to drive another twenty three minutes. You know, it's a whole other thing when a community over the past I don't know, six seven, eight years, has lost a basketball team that won four titles when they were there, a football team that won two titles while they were there, and a baseball team who at one point was thought to be the Darleida Major League Baseball. They never got
over the well they won back in the day. But like the Billy Bean moneyball stuff. You know, some great Oakland A's memories certainly old enough to remember the Bash Brothers, can Sagua McGuire so three like community changing assets gone?
Yep?
What do you make of that?
And for people who aren't aren't aren't really familiar with it. In the Oakland area, those two venues are literally right next door to each other, as it should, right off the freeway, the A eighty, and they share a huge parking lot area. And to have that whole that whole complex now is literally just sitting there. I don't know what the plans are by Oakland or Alameda County that runs those facilities, but it's uh, it's really a shame. It's really now literally a ghost town. You drive by
them and there's nothing going on. You know, everything is shifted, whether it was with the Warriors, you know, over to the San Francisco side, you know, and they're right down the street from where the Giants are, uh now, and so everything's kind of centered in San Francisco. And and uh of course the Raiders moved to Vegas and now the supposedly the A's are going to eventually be in Vegas at some point.
But it's but, but it's tough. Look, the.
Raiders had the fan base, h they just wanted They just wanted a new setup and new revenue streams that Oakland couldn't provide the A's dwindling attendance and in the last ten fifteen years, wanted to get a new ballpark like the Giants had, couldn't get it, and the taxpayers there kept kept voting it down and so and and and rightfully, so why should they pay money for somebody else's business, you know, Larry Miller always took that stance.
You know, why why would I ask the taxpayers for money when it's my business?
You know.
So the A's are now gonna, you know, go to Sacramento for a few years and hopefully get eventually to Vegas. But that's gonna be another interesting thing. The whole Vegas a's thing if you look into it, because they're tearing down the Tropic Cane when I was there a few months ago. It is coming down. It's it's a big
construction site. And yet you know, there are several engineers who have written independent people have written reports about that footprint and Vegas on that corner across from MGM Grand and saying you cannot put a major league ballpark on that footprint and make it work in terms of the logistics and what you really need engineering wise, not to say what it would impact obviously with traffic and parking
and all the things. But that part of Vegas in the south end of the strip is like that anyway. It's it's a big mess in the zoo. And you know, but everybody goes anyway, right, everybody's going to the Raiders games. People flock in to see the w n b A, the Aces play T Mobile is always packed whenever they have college games at T Mobile. They've figured it out at UNLV at Thomas and Max, so they'll figure something out. But it's it's going to be interesting. It's not this
Slam dunk deal. I think that a lot of people are assuming the A's are automatically going to that site. That's that's going to be an interesting thing to watch.
Last thing in this space, then we'll move on.
And Commissioner Silver gave his annual you know, State of the Union whatever you call it, prior to the start of training camps in the NBA, and he said, you know, there's no imminent plans to expand, but eventually they will. And the talent's there, certainly in pro basketball when you look at a lot of the players that are out of the league.
That seem to be still somewhat young and really good.
I would imagine, you know, there was an argument at a time, you know, at one time that expansion would dilute the talent. I don't know that I'm there with it anymore when it does happen, because I'm also old enough to remember commissioners, you know, Pete Roselle, David Stern, Bargie Imadi, like older commissioners that are no longer there talking about how they would never touch Vegas because of
the gambling, the nightlife or whatever it is. And now everything has changed because all these sports are in bed with the gambling companies and and so now it feels like Vegas, Super Bowl, Final Four, whatever it is when the NBA experience, Do you think it is Vegas?
Do you think it's Seattle? What do you think that looks like?
Yeah, that's what I would think, Spencer. The logical places are are Seattle and Las Vegas, as the crent economy dictates. You know, Saint Louis may try and get in the mix, Louisville may try and get in the mix. Vancouver or Montreal.
I'd be behind Vancouver. I was that we lost that sit.
Yeah, and uh, you know, they'll all be in the mix. All have have groups that will that will make a pitch anyway. But it just seems like the big dogs in the fight at the moment would be those in Seattle and the people who want to get it in Vegas, because that just seems to to be where everybody is flowing.
And the NBA has a relationship with Las Vegas for the last twenty years with the Summer League and they and until last year, we're also holding the g League Showcase there in December every year, and the league would have meetings there and every team would be there so those seem like the logical places that they would go to next.
So before we maybe we'll just do some jazz on our next segment, because I did want to kick the tires with you on some news that came down today.
Gonzaga is going to join the PAC twelve.
And you know, Mark Fuse, a guy who I know that you know, and he's probably had opportunities to take jobs and other places over the course of his career because he's been so good up there. But from a college basketball standpoint as far as how much it moves the needle, I just wanted to get your take on what mark is built up there because Gonzaga is joining a conference because of the basketball program, right, which is a rarity in today's day and age of college athletics.
The only other school I can think of that would be able to do something like this is Yukon, right, because the football program is, you know, not what the basketball program is. But what do you make of what mark is built up at Gonzaga where they can actually get a conference invite because of their basketball prowess only?
Yeah, Well, it's a tremendous a feather in their cap that they've had that kind of a program for over twenty years now twenty five years and counting. They don't have football at Gonzaga, so they rely heavily on men's basketball for whether it's revenue streams or whether it's increased enrollment or applications for admission and that kind of thing.
What Mark Few will do?
You know?
That would be interesting because I don't know, you know, if and this is just me, I don't know anything about it at all, But you know, when you're making a move like that, are you still going to be the big dog, you know, or as you say, the big fish in the little pond as they've been for so long in the West Coast Conference right Saint Mary's is as has far them somewhat by U somewhat when they were in it, but they were always the top dog.
And now, uh, if you're not, if you're not going to do that, and now with N I N I L stuff and and the and the transfer portal, how are you What is it going to be your attraction to those players to keep them and what is going to be your base from a uh financial standpoint to be able to stay where you are in those circles that you know, Uh, they've been. They've been more than a few coaches spent just in the last couple of years that I've known, who have said, Hey, I can't
deal it, deal with it. It's a whole different deal. I'm out of here, you know, and have just retired and left the game, you know, whether it's Randy Ray up at Weaver Stay or whether it was uh Jay
at then at Villanova. You know, Mike Krychevski of course, is a little bit older, so you know, probably a ripe time for him to retire anyway, but a lot of prominent guys in the last couple of years have said, you know, I don't think I can deal with this stuff, and so Gonzaiga moving into that kind of conference will be interesting to see just how Mark Few deals with that on a personal and professional level going forward.
All Right, some sad news the surface this week. And I had a chance on a few occasions to meet to Kenby Matambaugh. He was at Patrick Ewan's retirement of the Garden. And you know, jazz fans remember great battles with Mark and Carl you know, back when the kembe was in Denver, when he was in Atlanta, the Knicks and the Hawks had a little thing going back and forth. And you know, we could talk about his game, certainly a second all time in blocks, one of the best
rebounding block shot bigs of that era. But it seems like most of the conversation this weeksman has been about who he was when he wasn't playing as an ambassador. And you are uniquely qualified to talk about this. You've done some stuff basketball without borders down in Africa's home country, republic of Congo. What would you tell our listeners about your knowledge of Dekembe as he passed away this week at the age of fifty eight.
Yeah, what what sad news to get You know that he died of brain cancer and one awful thing to have to deal with and at such a young age. He Uh, he was a very impactful player on the court. He was very meaningful to the teams that he played for in terms of his personality, in terms of his
his total approach to the profession. You know, he was really a great locker room guy, uh that that rally people around him, but even more so off the court, both for his home country, both for the continent of Africa, both as an ambassador for the NBA. He was the first official NBA Ambassador, International ambassador, and and was employed by the NBA for for many many years to go around the world and and and preach the game of basketball and to represent the NBA at the highest levels.
And he was a guy who could get it done, and he had that personality. He also had a certain level of humbleness about him, you know, where he was able to meet you know, dignitaries and and uh politicians in different countries and at the highest level and be able to get in the door and and talk with them about you know, spreading the game and building basketball courts and getting infrastructures in place for countries and uh to uh to to get involved in in this sport.
And he was just a great global ambassador And and what a what a genuine person he was who was grateful for the opportunities he got in this country to do what he loved to do, and then was all about giving back to that after his career. And what a loss for the game basketball, what a loss for humanity in general to have someone like him pass away at such an early age.
Yeah, well said all right.
Coming up next to Jazz open up training camp. It is that week in pro basketball, so we'll do a little jazz coming up on the other side. Also, Donovan Mitchell loves Cleveland because he can dress for the cold and he's excited about the future.
Where have we heard that before? We'll get somebody's take on that.
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They're your total design solution. There are year round, weather ready, durable in all seasons. Discover more at diamondcoatsidning dot com. That's diamondcoat spelled Kote Siding dot com. All right, some jazz coming up with Smitty live in studio, keep it right here on ESPN seven hundred. We've got Scott Mitchell stopping by today at four o'clock to talk some Utah football. Then the voice of the Utes, Bill Riley, will be our guest after that.
So some college football coming your way. We'll get back at that. Coming up in a bit. Smitty is live in studio. The great Richard Smith forty years.
With the Jazz Front Office, speaking of college football so many. We might have two really good teams in our state. We got little Utes, little Cougars. Both both look like they're pretty good this year. Hey, let's get Smitty's mic on. All right, let's try again. I just so you know, I cannot control your mic or my mic in the studio.
So okay, okay, yeah, you're good.
Now a couple of It's always better when they're both good, chief right.
Hey, Hey, there's probably some other factors involved in going, Hey, we've heard enough of that guy already.
Somebody cut his mic off or something.
No, it's a much more nuanced, you know, the explanation one that will leave off air for today. But you're you're a man of the community. We got both b y U and Utah footballer concerned.
Oh hey, I've been to the U games the last few games at home and went to the game the other night and and uh, you know, just you know, I thought Arizona just outplayed them. You know, they they What they really did to me, for me was that Arizona every time they had a critical third down play, they made the play. And you have to give them credit for that. They they went out and got it.
I thought I didn't think it was something you know, so called that the that the you gave away a lost as much as Arizona came and took it from him. And so you have to give them credit. They just played better.
Uh.
And and b y U is off to a tremendous start, and uh, the quarterback is really it seems like he's settling in and and they've had a couple of close calls, but they but they've been good enough to to make them again make the plays when they had to make him. In football, a lot of times it comes down to one or two critical plays or a key turnover, you know, in the second half of the game and and uh uh.
But they're both fun to watch, and it's fun to to see how this season evolves, you know, with the whole cam rising uh Isaac Wilson thing and and UH and and what's gonna happen as we get into UH through the month of October and where they're both sitting uh in in UH and set up for the big showdown in early November. Up but Rice cycles between the Cougars and the Utes.
I wanted to kick the tires with you on this topic because you know, Donovan Mitchell uh in a way that we the rest of us just don't. I mean, you were with the team when you drafted him. You were there at the start, you watched his evolution, and I was over there. But on the radio side, you don't have the same access obviously as you want the player personnel side. And whenever Donovan speaks, folks around here seemed to glom on to what he talks about. It
was the same thing with Heyward. When Gordon bounced, everybody around here was like waiting for him to say something, but ultimately he never said until he retired.
And I get the deal.
You know that, So do you what Donovan said yesterday during Cleveland Media Day caught a lot of attention around here because he said, I love it here. I feel a connection to the city. I don't mind cold weather. I know how to dress for winter. And honestly, if you close your eyes, it was back during his rookie year what he said those things about Utah, right, and so that's the game. You're supposed to say those things.
Now we could get into like you know, New York didn't want him and now they don't need him.
Brooklyn's rebuilding.
The Knicks app Jalen like, there's no way the Knicks we're going to make a play for Donovan Mitchell and Brooklyn doesn't want to be good. So the fact of the matter is he can say whatever he wants. He signed with Cleveland right right after it became pretty apparent that that was just the deal. He could make more money stay and put that's my opinion. And I like you not up in arms about these things because you you're taught to say certain things to appease a fan base.
But it was somewhat comical that if you closed your eyes, it did sound like what Donovan said about Salt Lake.
Yeah, well, I mean and I I'm one of those who probably feels more that that coming from him, that both times he spoke in that regard that he probably meant it. You know, he liked being here in Salt Lake when he first got here, and he really ingratiated himself within the community and and made a lot of stuff off the court.
Uh.
It took took initiative to get involved in the community and did that. And I think he really he really liked I think that's part of his personality. And I think now he's in Cleveland and he signed a new deal with them Spence. Uh, I believe he probably feels genuinely that way. I think he likes where he is, you know, but certainly after right after signing an a extension for one hundred and fifty million dollars, you're not
gonna say, I don't really like the weather. I don't know about this traffic I gotta deal with every day.
But you know, I'll figure it out whatever.
Yeah, you know, so you know, I don't, I don't. I don't begrudge of any of that. I think he's you know, he's also got a lot of weight on his shoulders with that team now moving forward, they've got a new coach and Kenny Atkinson, and and you know, they hired Johnny Bryant to be on their staff. So they hired him away from the from the New York Knicks staff. And Johnny Bryant was with Donovan's workout development guy from day one on the Jazz coaching staff, and so they have a unique relationship.
And so they're reunited in Cleveland.
And and uh and now he's you know, he's the big dog with a lot of young guys there, and and they've got a good team and I'm sure he's excited for them to be able to start making some progress, especially as their as their younger players start to get more and more experience under their belts.
All right, Tommidty, before we move over to the Jazz and that's where we'll spend the rest of our time after this topic. You don't get a ton of big NBA trades in September at October, but you get some. And by the way, Donovan was traded in September, So sometimes it happens more often than not this time of year. Teams know what's sort of hand, they've been del they're preparing for camp with their roster, but the Knicks and
the Wolves make a deal last Friday. It was a Friday news dump where Julius Randall and Dante dia Vincenzo are now Minnesota bounds and Karl Anthony Towns is going going back to play for Tom Thibodeau, who had him in Minnesota.
I believe for a little bit.
I think I'll just I want your thoughts. Essentially, I think the talent win is in New York's court. I have curiosities about how Tom's going to handle that rotation because it will be I believe Kat andnob Hartridge Bronson, and that's a team with some great wing defenders, but not a lot of size and a center of that doesen't board great for his size. I mean, Kat can do a lot, But what do you make of this both both sides, Randall, Deevincenzo Minnesota bound, cat heads to New York.
Yeah, I think it's uh New York is shoring up the center position. Of course, they lost Isaiah Hartenstein Uh in the in the off season as a free agent Oklahoma City. You know they they're the Robinson kid, Who's who's Who's got some talent and can affect winning some nights at the NBA level. Uh, he's hard to He's been hard for them to count on because of his injury history. He seems to always be in and out, in and out, and so you can't count on his availability.
So if you're gonna be somebody a team that feels like you have a legitimate chance to make some kind of extended run in the spring, then you need somebody that you can count on more and more consistently during the course of the season. And I think that was an impetus for the Dicks to make the move to get an All Star caliber player and Karl Anthony Towns at a position where they needed some stability and needed a main guy, and and they got one from Minnesota.
It always seemed like Rudy Gobert and and Uh and Towns were kind of bumping into each other. I mean, they're both natural centers.
Uh.
They tried to play Towns at the four. They had, you know, some success with it, right, and but it always felt like it was a square pegan a round hole as far as their lineup was concerned. And now that frees up, Uh, they're spacing a little bit more. They get Randall in there. Uh and and Randall is a great mid post score who can bring them some some offense, you know, you know, you lose a lot of offense in that regard, but you have a little bit better lineup, I think in terms of how your
starting five is structured for Minnesota. And then you add Devincenzo, who's one of the top five three point shooters last year in the league and can certainly help you space the floor with the other shooters they have, especially with Edwards now emerging as the main guy in the league. So I think it's one of those trade spends that for me, when I saw it, I kind of looked at it for a few minutes, kind of thought about it, looked at a few stats, a few things, and thought, yeah, yeah,
it makes sense for both teams. You know, I don't think any either team was trying to get the upper hand. I think both teams are doing something that they felt made sense for their group and how they're currently set up. And they both made the moves with an eye toward feeling like we can be half a step better with what we're trying to do if we can make this kind of move. And I think that's that's where they both feel at this time.
So let's move over to the Jazz now.
I want to start here Howard Beck from The Ringer, formerly of The New York Times, formerly of Well Everywhere Sports Illustrated.
Howard not keep a job? Is that what you're telling me?
Howard might be my favorite NBA writer.
I'm surprised he's never stayed in one place, but he's landed on his feet, as he does every time one company lets him go. No, he's very good at what he does, and every year he writes what he calls the Clarity Index. Okay, so what that is is not necessarily a composite ranking of NBA teams. It's Howard's opinion on what they are trying to do currently. And with some NBA teams, it's really easy to understand what they're trying to do. The Knicks obviously are all in now.
They're trying to win. And we could go down the list of teams that are serious about winning, teams that are not, and teams that are obvious about not being serious about winning. Here's what he says about the jazz quote. And now for the Jazz, they might be the most confusing of all, a team that Jettiston It's two All stars two years ago, isn't good enough to make the playoffs, isn't bad enough to now have a high draft pick.
They could have doubt Lowry market in a dozen times by now, but they instead gave him an extension that makes him trade ineligible until till next summer. They're neither trying to win, nor are they trying to lose the epitome of a franchise with an identity crisis. What's the Richard Smith take on that?
Well, I think that what they've you know, the first two years of this so called retooling or rebuilding or tear down or whatever however you want to label it. I can see where people, fans, writers, media people would be confused because they saw that they were having some modicum of success early in each of those seasons and then went ahead at the trade deadline traded the you
know guys who are helping them to do that. But I think those are things that that that they saw as ways of trying to shore up their draft stockpile and trying to get trying to figure out where they actually were as a team. Now I think that they have they have a commitment to playing their young guys.
So whether you like that or not, whether that's gonna mean more losses or the same number of wins, I don't know, but I think it's gonna I think it's gonna be hard for them to have any level of success, at least this coming season in any consistent fashion, because they it seems like from what I understand, they're gonna play a lot of their young guys a lot of minutes, and they're gonna roll with what's going on.
And if that.
Yields fewer wins and they get closer to the lottery land and all that, I think that's that's probably okay with them. I do think the marketing thing, you know, adds a little wrench in there. But I do think that if you're trying to build a team, when you find a guy, and you can get a guy and then you can hold on to him, uh and someone at his level, he's an all star level player, he's right in his prime, he wants to be here, and
for them to lock him up. For me, that made a lot of sense, because you know, whether that translates to wins and losses or we're not going to be bad enough now or whatever.
You got.
When you get a good player like that and you can you can get him to commit to you, then you have to do that. That's the first building block. Now you got all these other young guys that you're trying to sift through. You know, it's like the guy and it's like the old uh uh guy mining for gold spencing the river. He gets the big the big sifter out and he gets all the dirt in it and he starts shuffling it around and he's hoping he has a gold nugget or two in that when all
the dirt and the and the silt goes away. And that's that's what the jazz are doing now. They're trying to figure out, Okay, we got all these young guys. We're gonna see who can play, who can't play. We're gonna see who we like, who we don't like. We're gonna see who the coach thinks can can get something done down the road. And that's where we're at right now. And in the meantime, marketing will be our star player and whether he affects winning to any level that that
that adversely affects their lottery. Uh situation. That's something that they'll deal with, you know, as they go along. But you have to keep good players when you have them. Although that you know again that that goes against what they what the current group decided to do a couple of years ago when they had a lot of good players and got rid of all of them, But that's
what they decided to do. So now this is the new iteration of just what they're going through to try and build a team that they think at some point can be sustainable down the road.
So give me your best guess on how this is going to go, because I often look at the Vegas over unders where the guys in Vegas are pretty accurate as far as you know, predicting how the season is going to go, and history will tell you that they know what they're doing. So they have the consensus over runner for the Jazz is twenty nine point five. So Vegas is telling us the Jazz are going to win
about thirty games. Okay, So you know, initially, at first glance, that is problematic if you want, if you want to believe that the Jazz need to do everything they can to have draft capital to take your iy like Cooper Flag who it appears as of now will be the number one pick, and you always point out and then we'll see, right like everybody seems to believe he's one of these generational pieces. No one ever knows Wembnyama Lebron.
There are exceptions where it feels like, all right, just take the dude, because he's going to be that guy. We'll see if Cooper flag is. People to do this for a living believe that he is in a way that I don't do it for a living. So the teams they have below the Jazz are the Hornets, the Bulls, the Raptors, the Pistons, and that's the Blazers and the Wizard.
So that's seven teams that Vegas is telling us is worse than the Jazz, putting the Jazz at eight now, lottery odds have been flattened, as we've talked about, so even if you go all in on losing, you're not gonna get one, asked Detroit and Xanik at their media availability on Friday of last week, basically alluded to the fact that we have a lot of young players that we like, but the only way for us to know who they are is for them to get playing time.
So does that indicate we're going to see starting lineup, a rotation all of these young players. What does this mean for Clarkson and Sexton and marketing and John Collins? I mean, Lowry's going to start and play, is my guess. But how is this going to look? Trying to get the young players some minutes and experience while you still have some proud, highly paid vets on your roster.
Yeah, well, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of those guys were on the move, you know, between now in February. I mean, if you're gonna go all in with the young guys, and you're gonna try and sift through and see you know, his Collier a real NBA level point guard, His keyante George more of a scoring two off the bench than he is a lead point guard or Kenny play point guard. Are we gonna let him have a lot of those minutes like they
were the second half of last year? And and to see what kind of development he he brings to the table. Ken Hendrix, you know whose body looks much better now than it did six months ago. He's put on some off season muscle and and and is starting to mature into his body. Will he be able to give you
some impactful minutes going into the season. The Filipowski kid they got in the early second round, you know, might be a steal in terms of having a guy who could at least come in and be a rotation guy and actually give you some minutes and get and be like an all around type player. It'll be interesting to see his development. So I I do think that the Jazz powers that be looking at it and saying, Okay, we got all these guys. Now the young guys. Now we got to figure out who can play, who we want,
who who we want to move on from. So they're going to be doing all of that. I mean the older guys, whether it's Clarkson, whether it's Collins, Sexton is is. I like Sexton, he's young enough, you know, he still should be considered one of the young guys to me,
but particularly Clarkin's. Uh, Clarkson and Collins, I would be I would be surprised if they were still on the roster come the end of February, just because I think they're guys who you know, Clarkson can move I think a little bit easier because it's number isn't as big now. It went from twenty four to fourteen. So now he becomes a guy that teams that are in the hunt, you know after the first of the year they need a scorer off the bench, you know, becomes attractive to
teams like that. Collins will be a little bit tougher because of his big number. So that may be someone at some point where they if they can't move him, they have they have to some kind of a buyout agreement or something. But it just seems to me that they're gonna go in with the young guys, and if you're gonna go in, then you gotta play them and play them and play them and just see how it falls and who's who's showing up as the season goes on.
All right, Smiddy.
Before I say you, Luise, I want to ask you a question, and we alluded to this a little bit last year, and you take us into the the mindset of roster construction and what this process looks like. And you know, I remember Dennis Lindz he always had his five year plan on his whiteboard and you know, looking the head to the future and what does it look like when our best players are in their prime juxtaposed to what the other teams in our conference look like.
There's no perfect way to do this, and there's no one way to do this. I understand that there are a bunch of different approaches. I think there are some that are tried and true and others that are a little bit more unproven. I'll just ask you, generally speaking, does the glut of young, really good teams that are far ahead of the jazz change the timeline?
Change the calculation?
When you look at OKAYC You're not going anywhere for a while and being awesome.
I could keep going as you know.
Dallas Luca, I mean even the Nuggets with Jokic, he's in his prime and he's gonna be good for four or five years. Because for a while, for me it was like, well, Steph's gonna age, Lebron's gonna age, Durants can age, and then Donovan and Rooty and these guys, they'll be ready when they're done. Now the franchise decided to pivot and make a change. What's your opinion on that.
Does the glut of young, really good teams far ahead of the jazz and the process change the way the jazz look at this timeline.
For me, it doesn't spend so And this is why, because when you are a young, good team, what's right around the corner that you're always dealing with from a management and ownership perspective is how are we going to keep these guys? Meaning who gets paid and who doesn't
get paid? When you look at it and the and the landscape of the NBA Oklahoma City UH, which is in a great position right now with not only good young players and a very competitive team, but also a lot of draft picks in their back pocket still so they still have a lot of room for maneuverability. But you go back a decade ago, they had the same setup with guys who were even a little bit better. Okay, they drafted successive drafts Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook.
Those three guys should still if it was a perfect NBA world, UH, from an ownership perspective, they should still be playing together in Oklahoma City and have been sitting on two, three, four championships. But it didn't work out that way. They were a good young team, they went to a finals and then what happens. Everybody comes to everybody comes knocking at the door, and they want theirs.
And no matter how you talk to them, and how you try and divvy it up, and and how you try and massage egos and whatever it is, it rarely works the way you want it to. So guys start going out the door, one after the other. And now, of course Oklahoma City has rebuilt themselves, but none of those guys are with them. So the guys, the teams that you're relating to now that are in front of the jazz, you know, you don't know how they're gonna be able to stay together. You don't know how it's
gonna work. You have to worry about how you're building your group and how you're progressing, and to what extent you want to keep that going, uh, financially, and also with the personnel you have. And then and what happens elsewhere you have no control over, whether it's you know that okay see example or the one there was more recent in Brooklyn where they stacked up all the guys and those three guys played sixteen games together. I mean,
are you kidding me? I mean, when you step back and look at the history of it, you go, are you you know you remember when they all came together. Everybody was like, Oh, those guys, they're gonna be a headache for five, six, seven years.
You know they're gonna be running the show. And it never happened.
Right.
So, so the answer to your question, the Jazz should just stay on the timeline they're on. They should do it the way they think is gonna make sense for them going down the road, and you stick to that, and you don't worry about the other people on the outside, the other teams, and you just you just go with what you believe makes the most sense to what's gonna get you to where you're trying to go in the
long run. It's tough, it's a long deal, and it doesn't guarantee you're gonna get there right, but you have to have the conviction that that makes sense to you and your group, and you go with that. And I think Larry Markinen, the signing of him, is the first step in that direction.
All right, Smitty, Great to have you back. Great to see you. I have a good week and we'll chat.
Soon, okay man, Thank you.
Richard Smith forty years with the Jazz Front Office. Bye week for the utah Utes. Hoping for a get right game against Arizona State. Arizona had to get right game against the Utes, so hoping to kind of replicate that during this by a week our next guest. There's a thing or two about the Utes. One of the best to ever do it up there, played in the NFL. I was hoping to have Scott Mitchell iven studio. As I walked into the building, he was present. But he
has ditched us and now he's over the phone. What happened, man? I thought you were coming to studio.
Yeah, you know, life just throws a lot of curve balls at you. I mean I also expected the Utes to just be amazing on Saturday night. I mean, dark mouthe, you're at home. You have all these Hall of Fame weeks, homecoming weeks, and they kind of laid an egg. So I'm sorry, Spence. I should have known better. I should have just hung around.
It's all good, my friend, all good.
I appreciate your time, whether it's in person over the phone. So obviously let's start with what happened on Saturday night. And Scott, I don't know how many times I've been in that stadium. I couldn't even guess dating back to my time as a student or dating back to my time as a media member, which has now been twenty years, but I was there with my son, I was a season ticket older once upon a time. I don't know that I remember, at least recently, rice cycles seeming so nervous,
seeming so almost docile. I mean, there wasn't a lot to get excited about. And obviously when the football is good, it's easier to easier to cheer, but start to finish, it just felt like a really strange night, right, So just overall, what were your takeaways from Arizona's went over Utah on Saturday?
Very astute because it was it was strange, and there was a weird vibe there, and there was a weird vibe with the team. And you know, you have games like this, you do. You have low energy games. You have you know, a fatigue game. You just have one way you just you're just not quite together, you know.
Converting those fourth downs early in the game. That kind of tells you a little bit about where the mindset of this team is, because it's it's a it's that do or die down, Like you don't get another one if you've missed this, So you've got to have a sense of urgency about you and and it really wasn't there. And and you could you can attribute it to a lot of things and say, you know, team traveled, hot game, emotional game for what it was. You know, you could
have the fatigue of playing for two months. Now, you have a young quarterback who doesn't you know, he's never been through this, he never felt this before, and and you need your leaders to step up. And and it's clearly a game that they needed Cam rising, they needed his leadership. I think Corennie Reid they needed his leadership on defense because it was across the board. It wasn't it wasn't just offense. There was there was a lackluster
effort with the defense, uh during during the game. And and I don't think I don't think they're coached that way. I don't think that there they want to play that way. You know, these guys love to play, they love to prepare, they love to get out there and do it. It's just sometimes you just have that night and and you just got to figure out how to fight through it.
And it's it's the leader internally that you know, hey, we got to pick it up, guys, We gotta we got to change the tone and the feel everything here, and and you just didn't see it at all during the game.
Of course.
God.
The big topic of conversation around the market is Cameron is camera rising, his availability, his lack thereof the messaging from the football program, the messaging from coaches and players.
I continue to be in the space where my heart goes out to him.
I feel bad for him because I think he's hurt, and when he's healthy, I think he'll play. Not one for conspiracy theories and sports or elsewhere, but those are flying around as well. So I just want to Scott Mitchell take on the way this is being handled and if you have any information about where we're at in the process of trying to get him back under center, obviously I would love to hear hear from you on that as well.
Yeah, I think it's it's if you look at his history and you say, this guy's brought a lot when he's you know, the moment he stepped on the field, I still remember it. I still remember the team. He just elevated, everyone's hope, everyone's you know, feeling like belief, just what they played San Diego State. It was in Los Angeles and the minute he stepped in, it was just different. And it was different the whole rest of
that season. I remember him throwing some big, huge plays against USC in the coliseum and Utah hadn't beat USC and and they did, and it was Cam Rising having this moxie and this this confidence to throw a ball on fourth down and you know, short and he throws it for a touchdown. And there's just a lot of things that he has brought to the table. Brought two championships, brought two Rose Bowls, and played in some big time games and and came up big and in a lot
of those games. And he just is a guy that's uber competitive. But it's hard. It's hard to describe to people when there's like hurt and then there's injured, and there're two different things, and hurt is like, Okay, this is just annoying. I'm gonna suck it up and I
have to play. And then and then there's injured, where it's like if I play, I can't play well, like I'm gonna do more damage to myself to the team, and and it's and it's really a person individually that knows that for whatever reason, Cam has had a lot of injuries. I mean the first you know, he got named the starter, it was Covid. It was in against USC he you know, destroys his shoulder very early in
that game. He got injured. You know, I think, what both Rose Bowls and uh, and so he's been injured and of course now he's injured this year, and and it's just some guys just have have those injuries. And I really think that he wants to be in the game. I had an injury one year. I had to get a shot just to practice every day. It was the worst thing in the world. And I got accused of this.
You know, you just don't you know, you're not playing, you know, you're you're not tough enough, whatever, and it's just it's just not the case. So I really think he will be out there. Part of it, Spence, it's really hard when you have people that are passionate about the program, these alumni people, these boosters, and they're so passionate. They put their money where their mouth is, like they donate a lot of money and a lot of effort into this program being well and this school doing well.
And to see someone who they're paying money to, you know not, you know, not seeing a lot of return on that on that investment. That that's hard and that's hard to swallow. And I totally totally get that. I don't know that there's much control over, you know, how where that money goes and what happens with it. It's it's it's one of the really bad things about college football right now. And so people do expect those results. And I think Cam, I think Cam does. And look,
Utah still controls their destiny, you know. You know Colorado's the two wins BYU Iowa State, Utah plays all of those teams. It's really early in the year. It's really a game that I think this team can really fuel themselves from the sting of it, because and I'm still reeling from it. I'm just like, what the heck happens Saturday night? And a lot of times teams can really
be fueled by this and move forward. You think of you think of Tim Tebow when they won a national championship of Florida and they had a loss like this and he just said, never again, ever will this happen to me and to this football team, and they go on and win a national championship. So a lot of times you can turn some of these nasty, terrible like feel like the end of the program moments into you know, something that really propels you to greater heights.
So I want to get your opinion on the way that the program is handling the dissemination of information. And Dennis Dodd today wrote a piece where he talked about all the powerful conferences utilize a guy named Matt Holt. Now, Matt is the founder of the US Integrity in Las Vegas, which sounds like an oxymoron to me. As a gambling integrity monitor, that's what he does. But you know, when contacted about this situation specifically, here's what Hold had to say.
So quote, we constantly tell our colleges, if you continue to hide information for gamesmanship, our competitive advantage purposes, you are putting your student athletes, your trainers, your equipment managers, and your assistant coaches in a heightened risk category is what we call it. When betting groups start to figure out, hey, this coach won't disclose information. Now, there's real value to
getting that inside information. So sharks and wise guys and such they lean on trainers, and they lean on assistant coaches. They lean on players to get inside information to therefore utilize that to affect lines and make money. I don't love that this is where we're at in sports, when they're in bed with the gambling companies and the apps.
I think it's a really slippery slope.
Beckay Coppins from the Atlantic did a piece last week on the effects on families now that we have about five years of data of legalized gambling, what it has done. Some families have lost homes, it's divorced, its debt. It's
a really, really slippery slope. But we are where we are, and ultimately it does look like according to what I have in front of me from the CBS piece, these coaches that are holding back information are thought to be putting their staff in what's called a heightened risk category. Do you think stuff like this will change the way that the program is utilizing their platform to disseminate the information and do you think they should change the way
they're going about it? For me, it feels unfair to cam That's my whole thing. But what's the Scott Mitchell take.
Boy that that is an interesting statement because if you watch, you know, we're sitting here all week long going Okay, is Cam playing? Is he not? As he playing? Is he not? And then you watch the betting lines and they change, and they change as the week goes on, and they change. I mean at Oklahoma State they were changing during you know, the day, and and you and you and we looked at it and I said, somebody
knows something. And these people that set these lines, you know, you talk about like they know like they're in the business of winning. They're not. They're not there to lose. So so they're gonna go and they're going to figure out how to get any possible information that they can get.
And uh, and I'm sure those lines for the Utah the last couple of weeks were based on maybe information they got like hey, Cameron's he's not going this week, because you know, the lines changed and went down and and then they went back, you know, and and so so someone somewhere somewhere or some someone somewhere is getting information. How they do it, who knows? Because your point about gambling, and it's so easy, like so many things in our
society today are so convenient. You can pretty much be anywhere and oh I can gamble on a gam shoot, I can gamble during the game, I can. You know, it's just they've made it extremely easy. And who knows who's involved in gambling. You know, it's something why play in the NFL like you, it was hammered into your brain.
Do not talk to, do not share, do not anything. Uh. You know, the integrity of our game is so critical, and if anyone thought it was fixed, or if anyone thought, you know, it would just it would really destroy the whole. And it would and it does. But people, but we're human. I I don't. I know, I'm not a gambler. It's not my thing. I've never done it. I'd never cared to do it. I know a lot of people. I know a lot of people in sports. I know a lot of people who are playing sports are huge gamblers.
And and so you know, if you have you know, if you have the equipment manager and I'm not saying that's the case, or you have some front office person who, yeah, I like to gamble, and uh, and then someone's and they and someone finds out they kind of like to gamble, and they go, hey, if you give us some insight onto whether Cam Rising is playing or not, we'll give you. We'll give you a thousand bucks, or we'll give you whatever.
I mean, who knows what you know? Who else or someone may be in trouble gambling, and they go, we'll take care of your your problem here if you give us some insider information. These people in Vegas will find they'll find information, and they'll know because they they do not want to lose. And this, this whole setting these lines things is a science and something I have no idea, but they're they're pretty good at it. And and so yeah, I could see where it could really impact people inside
of organizations. I'm still trying to And and gamesmanship is fine, right whatever, you know, everyone has their thing. Everyone tries to find a way to get an edge, to be motivated. And I certainly did it, and I you know I would. I would do everything I could possibly do to to figure out how to how to have an edge on my competition, knowing that they're doing the same thing. But I so I don't understand completely why you just don't tell people. You know, in the NFL, well, it's pretty
it's pretty known, it's pretty pretty out there. Uh you know, college football, These these coaches have a pretty good feel of other programs and how their schemes and all of these different things. And it might be an advantage for a series or two or whatever. I don't know that it's a complete advantage if you don't know which players playing or who's not playing. You know, I, I you know, if if if it's anything, it just should to be
standard across across the board. But I'm one that you know, I. I don't have a problem being transparent and kind of telling where where players or people are. But you know, coach Whittingham has never been that way, doesn't feel that way. He's like, look, I want if I don't have to share it, I'm not going to and and so he doesn't and I don't have a problem with that either.
But uh, you know, the the challenge with Cam is that he's getting paid, and he's getting paid a lot of money, and he unplayed for you know, almost a year and a quarter or a third because we're well even a little bit more than a third now. So that's that's unfortunately how things are. You get paid to do this. There's a different expectation and now it comes with production and winning and the perception of production and winning,
and that's a different deal. And that's called professional sports, and that's really what college football is.
So Scott, final thing on this, and then we'll get to a couple of other quick topics before I set you loose. I'm just operating off the premise that it's eyes that can tell it's not. I don't have any knowledge on what the next couple of weeks are going to look like. It's easy to surmise that if we take Utah Football on their word, but historically speaking their word on this is not reliable and we all understand
why competitive advantage all that stuff. If Cameron was very close to playing against Arizona, I think it's safe to say that, given two more weeks, we should expect him against Arizona State. But I'll go with the premonition that it's eyes that can tell it's not. What's your understanding of where we're at with Cam's health as of today.
Well, if long term, this year, right now, Cam rising gives you taw the best chance to win big picture conference championship, win those tough games, you know, really kind of be the guy to be that leader and lead this team and rise the level of expectation and play. And so you want him in there with this injury. You know, who knows what it is. And I've had injuries like this and fingers and getting hit on helmets and stretched ligaments and broken broken fingers and all kinds
of things. And the reality is it's it's probably gonna be a nuisance no matter what, for the rest of the year. I don't you know, who knows if it'll go away, just simply because if he's gonna throw, he's gonna play, He's just gonna probably continue to aggravate it. So I don't know if there's ever a level of you're just completely healthy, and so it's kind of how much can you tolerate? How much can you suck up? How can you how much can you not be distracted
by it? It does you know those those two fingers, your ring finger and your middle finger are not the most essential fingers throwing the football. It could it could impact your delivery. You know, I don't know, but I would. I would, really, I'm going to disagree with you. I really think they're really trying hard to get Cam ready for Arizona State. I think I think it's something that I think he can play from. He didn't look good at Oklahoma State. He actually looked better because he threw
a little bit before the Arizona game. But I think I think he I think he's gonna try. I think they're going to try to have him ready by then and and and they probably should be able to play.
Yeah, I don't know what you're disagreeing with. I'm saying.
I'm operating off the premise that it's Isaac. Can tell it's not, because until I see it, it's hard to believe based off of all the information we've been giving. I agreed that they're trying to get him ready to play, but until we actually see it, you know, it's for me, it's time to kind of ignore the messaging until the utes run out for their first possession on offense and it's number seven and not eleven, I'm going to operate off the premise that it's eleven, not seven.
I just need to see it before I can believe it.
Yeah, And that's probably a healthy attitude to have. And the good the silver lining with all of this is man, Isaac Wilson's getting some great experience and some of it painful.
You know, I'm just telling you that last week was painful, and the painful part is Son you had, like when you're in the red zone, come hell or high water, you got to figure out how to score and you get those fourth downs, whatever it is, you got to make it happen, and you can't just you know it, just you just have to do it, and you have to will that on your team that this is extremely important.
We got it, we got to get it done. And and so there's just so so many game scenarios or things that come come up that that Isaac's had to deal with that being one of them. And and they'll just they'll be so valuable down the road. But unfortunately, this team is ready to win now and has such a great opportunity in the Big twelve. And because I still think it's very wide open in the conference. There's not a team I go oh wow that you know,
that's that's just a dominant team right there. And and so you really need need to get the guy back who can make it happen. But but it is good for Isaac to for him to get that experience.
All right, Scott, before I say you lose.
I referenced this earlier Arizona after the case Stay lost. They talked about the Utah game as a get right game for them after a buye. What does a get right game look like for Utah after a buye against Arizona State.
Well, it's just playing with that sense of urgency, playing really to win and not not kind of tired or playing not to lose. Uh, It's it's about being aggressive. And you know, Arizona really took the tempo to the game to Utah. They dictated terms the whole entire game, and that's what you have to do, you you know. And I think that's the energy that people were feeling. They were like, these guys aren't intimidated by being here in the stadium and this noise and this crowd, this team,
it's like they're here to win. They're here to Uh, you've got the target on your chest and we're going we're coming after you. And Utah is going to get that all year. But they've got to have the youths have to have this attitude that like every play is life and death, like like this this really matters, Like you can't you can't be complacent in any moment and that includes all of your preparation leading out to this game.
I bet if you went and asked and pulled the players in the coaches and said, did you do everything you could possibly do to get yourself ready to play this week? And I'll bet almost all of them say no, there's things I could have done better and and and that's that's the cruelty of football, that's the immediacy of it. That you only get so many opportunities. There's only three more home games this year. I mean, there's three, said, you know, and so you have to take advantage of
those opportunities. They have to be so precious to you, and you just have to come out with this like we just got to let everything hang out and just play to win. And we always said play like men and just you know, let it all hang out. And that's that's the way you gotta play.
All right, buddy, Appreciate the time today, Bye week, and then we'll see you.
With there made when they get back on the field. Scott, have a good week, brother.
Okay, all right, thanks you too.
Scott Mitchell, former Utah quarterback number of years in the NFL. Appreciate his time today. More you top football. Coming up next with the voice himself, Bill Riley, is our game. Got a little Major League Baseball wildcard action for you guys tonight when we say goa nights at six o'clock Atlanta, San Diego. It is that time of year. It is fall, which means playoff baseball. But of course football center right now, College Football Center, right now, Utah Football Center right now.
Our next guest is not only the voice of the youth see now does not have to grow mullet, which makes me very sad. Bill Riley is our guest. Bill for the past couple of months. If I've ever been in a bad mood, which at times happened, I don't know if you know that about me.
At times that can happen.
I picture you calling games in a mullet, and now that dream has died.
So I guess I just have to say congratulations.
Well, thank you.
I was Actually it would have been a great you know, it would have been that win win. You get me in the mullet and I got to call an undefeated regular season. It would have been kind of a win for everyone, and then you know everybody that got to mock me as well. I will say this, though, the Kansas City Royals had just beaten the Baltimore Orioles, and if the Kansas City Royals win the World Series, I will grow that mullet for you.
Spencer.
WHOA so are you saying the Bill Riley mullet watch is back on.
It's a longer shot, I think than the undefeated season because your Yankees are a bit of a juggernaut this year. But I will say this, if the Royals win the World Series, mullet watch is what mulletwatch is on. I've reinstalled mullet Watch, and there's still a chance.
You've made my heart so happy, okay, because that's really all I want to see in my life. As you call it, a game with a mullet. But we can move on from that. Ryles, Hey, I'll tell you what. And we just had Scott on. I don't know how many games I've been to in the stadium, dating back to my time as a student, then as a season ticket older.
Now as a media member.
I don't really know how to describe the way Saturday night felt. And we'll talk about the game, but just the atmosphere, and of course you've got to give them some to cheer for, and there wasn't a lot to cheer for, but the building just felt a little.
Little docile, a little like nervous.
How would you describe the atmosphere at Rice Ecles on Saturday night?
I was expecting, I'll say this, I was expecting a little bit more electricity.
I was.
I you know, I had visions of like a usc and not maybe. I know the game wasn't on that level, but you know, with the first night game and a couple of years of meaning and in a blackout game, but it just it wasn't there. There was you know, Utah seemed a little flat and the fans even seemed a little flat on Friday night or at Saturday night, which is unusual for both parties to be very fair.
Utah should have probably come out maybe with a little bit more juice, and I thought there'd be I mean, it was loud, but it was You and I have both been in that stadium when it was deafening loud on a on a blackout Saturday night, so I was I was a little surprised by that too.
All right, now moving over to the actual game, I just want your overall takeaways before we dig into some specifics. We'll get to the health stuff, We'll get to the cam stuff. What went wrong? Why do you think they weren't able to counter punch. Ultimately, what is the Bill Riley take on why Arizona rolled in a right sycle smack?
The youth's pretty good.
They didn't get a consistent pass rush on Noah Fafeda when he threw. I mean, I thought they got better as the game went along. I looked like Tetroo McMillan was going to have about two hundred yards after the first quarter, but guy.
Didn't have a catch in the second half.
But I think they missed Conter O'Toole up front spence, and I think they miss Karennie Reid as well. Reid is kind of as good as Lander Barton is. I kind of feel like Reid is the heartbeat of that defense, and Conor O'Toole is so good off the edge. They don't have as much depth at defensive end as they do a defensive tackle, and not having O'Toole in that game, who's got the ability to chase a guy like Fafeeda And again, Arizona didn't run at a bunch, but when
they ran it, they really ran it. And I think really the last couple of games you've seen them miss Karennie Reid and I know after the bye week they're hoping they have both those guys back. I don't have any kind of status update, but I know that was kind of the buzz around, you know, the stadium on Saturday was get this game, have a couple of weeks to heal up, and then we should we hope to have I say should they should they hope to have those guys both back after the bye week.
We'll see how that goes.
So, of course that moves over to the quarterback conversation and Dennis Dodd today, did you know you wrote a piece for CBS Sports Now it's front of the show, stop buy for Big twelve Media Day. And Dennis's assertion is this ambiguity and the messaging around Cameron's injury is putting Kyle Staff in a precarious spot as a result of what we deal with now since all of sports college and pro football, college and pro basketball are in.
Bed with gambling companies.
So there's a gentleman who all of the P four conferences use.
Let me get his name right. His name is Matt Holt.
He's the founder of the US Integrity in Las Vegas, which seems like an oxymoron as a gambling integrity monitor.
And here's the quote.
The Datistasenist piece today says, quote this comes from mister Holt.
Quote.
We constantly tell colleagues, if you continue to hide information for gamesmanship or competitive advantages purposes, you are putting your student athletes, trainers, equipment managers, and assistant coaches.
In what we call a heightened risk category.
When betting groups starting to start to figure out, hey, this coach won't disclose the information. There's real value in getting that inside information, and oftentimes they lean on lower level staffers. Now I can't coroberate any of that. And my personal opinion is Cameron is hurt and he will play when he's healthy. But you know, the community is kind of tired of this entire back and forth.
Bill.
I know you have to be careful, so don't put yourself in a bad spot, not like you would, But what do you make of where we're at with this entire thing and kind of the Cameron rising fatigue felt by a lot of people in the community.
Well, you know, I think like a lot of people, I get my phone blows up when you know he doesn't play, And to be very fair, they've been even guarded around me and not really disclosed a lot of details to me.
And that's fine.
They're they're allowed to do whatever they want to do with that, with that stuff. But I sense the same frustration that fans feel because I hear it from a lot of my friends and people in the media and things like that, and I you know, people want to know, and I said, I wish I could tell you. I just I don't know what that situation is. But I think to your point, the fatigue part of it is because it's two years in a row of the guy
that you're counting on so much dealing with injuries. Now, I do believe this one is different than a year ago. And I know he's hurt, and I know the finger has bothered him, and we've seen him warm up and try to throw. We didn't see that a bunch last year. Maybe it was one game when he came out, But I think that, you know, it's something that I know the kid really well, and I know you guys around station do because he comes in and does a conversation
every week. He wants to play football, and he wants to play football in the worst way. And Cam Woll's play on in the fact matter is you've got to put some football on tape if you want to get drafted. So I know there's fatigue around it. And I do know this that Isaac Wilson is making, you know, some
some mistakes that freshmen make from time to time. What I do see from his teammates is that the fact that they're kind of buying into what Isaac's doing out there, and I think they respect a lot that this kid just kind of doesn't act like a freshman. He comes in, he plays hard, he gives it what he has. But at the end of the day, I think if Utah wants to get where they want to get and there's everything still on the board, I mean, you know, one
loss is a sidetrack, especially in the playoff era. But I think this bye week Spence comes at a good time for not just a guy like Rising, but for this team to kind of exhale just a little bit after what was a tough month and then a couple of guys on the defensive side of the ball that you like to get back to. So I think it's a good week to have. If I get two of them this year, now you Thah will have another one before the BYU game. But it's a good time for all that for Utah.
So we had Brian Jeffries on the show, who is the Bill Riiley of Arizona?
Just not as much or not as much riz? You know what riz means, right, Roles?
No tell me?
Is that something the kids says?
The kids say that for charisma? So Brian Jefferies is the Bill Riley just a little less Rizz?
Because we know you got the Riz Rales?
And he called the Utah game a get right game for Arizona after a bye week. What does it get right game for Utah football look like after a bye week in Tempe against Arizona State.
I think it's the same thing you say. Here's the thing, Arizona they didn't just lose to Kansas State. They got to be thirty one to seven, and they had to sit on that for two weeks. Arizona's a good football team, but they look like it against Kansas State. Chansas State's a good football team, but they didn't look like it against BYU.
So you've got a.
Lot of good football teams. I don't know if there's a great team in this conference right now, but you've got a lot of good teams in this league. But what Utah's got to do is what Arizona had to do two weeks before. They've got to sit on it. They got they hear about it for a couple of weeks, but they've got to bring a little bit more juice.
You know.
I think there was a feeling maybe among fans, maybe a little bit among the team that maybe, hey, it's a blackout game. Hey you know we owe Arizona little something. Okay, they just lost the game at k State. You know this atmosphere, and they didn't Arizona came in and they didn't flinch. They were well prepared. I think Utah has to do all that same stuff.
Now.
The team they're playing is much improved Arizona State. And going down to Tempee on a Friday night against an improved team that may have another win under their belt before and one I think they played Kansas this week, who's not very good, you may be stepping into another hostile atmosphere. And so I think Utah's got to do what Arizona did, kind of look within itself a little bit and come with bring a little bit more juice when they come to the field against the Arizona State Sun Devils.
So as you reference, everything's still on the table.
I didn't push back on the narrative the Big Twelve had a bunch of parody because I didn't believe it to be true. I just didn't want it to be true because this year, for me, I'm just more about Utah football protecting themselves as opposed to latching on to the Big Twelve. Because the reality of where we're headed as a sport we all know about.
You just have to be in.
The best position you possibly can for yourselves to make sure that when everything actually does split off into this super conference that most people believe we're headed towards, you're in a good spot to be invited. So my thing this year is Utah football has to watch out for Utah football as opposed to.
Let's carry a Big twelve banner.
So I was hoping that Utah could, you know, kind of separate themselves a little bit from the pack.
That still has a chance to happen.
But we have seen that parody manifest in a way that most people thought that it would. How many teams build today do you feel confidence Insane can actually still win this conference?
That's a really good question. I think Utah can still win it. I think Kansas State can still win it. I think BYU through five games has showed they've got a chance to win it.
Here's the thing.
I think Abou Killane's team. I don't think they're may be as talented as Utah or maybe even Kansas State overall, but you know what.
They do every week.
They play really hard, they maximize what they have and as a result, they're five and oh. So I think BYU, I think Utah, I think Kansas State, I think Arizona, Iowa State. And I'm this is gonna sound crazy, Spence, I'm gonna throw Colorado in there just for a minute, because as much as a lot of people would love to see Dion and his boys fall down, outside of going to Nebraska, which is a tough place to play.
They've been okay, and they went on the road.
UCF was supposed to be one of those sleeper teams and they doubled up UCF in Orlando in a rain storm. So those would be the teams right now. I think there's five. Let's see one, two, three, four, five, I'll say six. So I think I think six, right now are still in the mix that I think can make a legitimate case to win this league.
Curious to, I want to follow up about BYU because I said last week that BYU, in my opinion, still had serious questions the answer against Baylor on the road. Now, I was on the sideline for the Utah Baylor game and Baylor's offense is not all that impressive, and BYU nearly nearly let Baylor get back into the game, but nonetheless they won. They stayed clean. That defense year two hunderd J. Hill looks like a defense they just coached by J. Hill and who head coach is Kialane. They're
going to see Arizona after a bye in Provo. Then they have Oklahoma State and Provo as well at UCF at Utah, So they have a lot of tough games left. But let's give credit where credit is due. Man, they're clean through five games. Just how good Bill do you think BYU is?
I don't know how good they are, Spence, but I came into the year thinking I didn't think they were good. I thought they'd be an average to slightly below average team. I did, and to be fair, I just didn't know a lot about them because there just wasn't a lot of information. They didn't name their quarterback till midway or late in camp, and I just I didn't have a
very good feel for them. So I was kind of judging them based on the second half of the season last year, where it kind of felt like the Big twelve caught up with them a little bit. Well, what they've done is they've come out, they're relatively healthy, they don't beat themselves a bunch with mistakes. They've capitalized. I mean, you know, in case, they gifted them a bunch of turnovers, you know what they did, they turned them into touchdowns.
They didn't kick field goals, they turned them into touchdowns. And again I'll say this, and this is kind of Colonie teams have always really done this. They play really hard. So when you play hard and you don't beat yourself, you give yourself a chance to stay in games. And they've done just that in they're five and zero.
All right, Ryles, Well, for your sake and my sake, I'll be churring for the Royals. But let me get this, if the Yankees win the World Series, can we get one of those hipster mustaches that all the kids have these days.
Maybe, Onya, No, I'm afraid now they're They're a favorite, you know what I mean. If they were transposed, if they were the wild card team, maybe I'd do it.
But now probing that, all right, then go Royals. I'm all about it. Ryle's thanks for the time today, buddy, Have a good week.
Okay, thanks, Bence.
All right, wrap it up the show for a Tuesday afternoon, lovely day outside, good forecast this week. Hoping you're having a good start to your work week as we answer a little bit closer and closer to that weekend and the start of Pro football on Thursday. Speaking of Pro football, a couple pieces of news and notes that we missed we were busy. Von Miller has been suspended four games
for violating the NFL Player Conduct Policy. No information, at least none that I've seen on exactly what's going on there has has been out, It has been at least released as of now. He served a six game suspension for performance and hatting and drugs back in twenty thirteen,
so that news came out. And also DeVante Adams has requested a trade from the Las Vegas Raiders and they even formed teams and they will consider it and looking, and they're looking for a second round pick, an additional compensation for one of the best most talented wide receivers in all of pro football. Gonzaga is high speed ahead to the Pac twelve in twenty twenty six, as we talked about, so obviously.
A lot of news in that direction.
All right, Porter, You know how I reference that my fantasy football team is depressingly.
Bad, I recall yet, yeah.
It's even worse than I thought.
Oh really, So, like a good fantasy football scorer is about one hundred and fifteen hundred and twenty points week in and week out. You put up one twenty, you have a chance to win thirty nine points, thirty nine points for my guys. So it's not just that it's bad, it's that it's historically bad. And I am the worst team in my league by far. Of course, injury have riddled my roster, but my lineup of Will Levis that didn't go well, Rashi Rice left with an injury. I
could keep going on and on and on. I have Tyreek Hill, I have Joe Mixon who didn't play. I have either completely underachievers at Pukakua.
I have to a tongue of iloa.
I have also, I have either completely underachievers or total injured players on my roster and uh and it's just depressing.
I just need to get that off my chest.
What's your team name?
I cannot say it on air?
No, no, actually, I cannot, thank you very much because I'm because I'm responsible. Yeah, I can show I can show you the team name. You know, I am interested so well. I will tell you the team name of the team I have in the RSL League, the Gerald Fitzgerald's.
That's a that's a traditional one. Yes, and my and you'll win that league, right probably, I.
Mean I always do.
But my little logo is a picture of Trey and sunglasses inside because it makes me happy. So if your fantasy football team is as bad as mine, I'm feeling you, guys, my heart's with you. Hang in there, all right, Porter, what comes our way on a Wednesday edition or this little old radio.
Show on a Wednesday, Spence, we'll preview UFC three oh seven. I'm really excited for that. Another really fun event here in Salt Lake City. You'll remember our guy Court McGee was actually fighting this week. He kind of struggled with retire, not retire, come back doing the can't decide thing. So Court's back, he's fighting. He'll be in action over the weekend. He'll join us tomorrow. Chris Camronnie will join us tomorrow as he is doing his own Cristomer McCandless thing. Over
the weekend, Neil Smith will join us. We'll start talking some hockey on the program this week, and then Andy Larson will drop by as well, so we're kind of touching all our bases midweek, going back and forth, talking some hoops, talking some football, talking some hockey, and maybe even a little soccer on a game day as well too.
All right, there will be a game day for oursl and one day closer to the weekend, on halfway through your work week on a Wednesday, So join us for that well SEGA Night special. Thank you Joe FORTINBA, Richard Smith, Scott Mitchell and Bill Riley for sound you may have missed from the show. Head on over to the website, which is ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. Make sure to download our mobile app and take us on the go. It is the ESPN seven hundred app and that's available
in the App Store or the Google play Store. Then finally, for what we do in our space every afternoon for four hours. Check out the podcast page. It's called The Drive with Spence. Check its and that's available wherever you get your show. Subscribe, rate, review, all the things we ask you to do. It actually helps if you have time. He's Porter, I'm Spence Saga Night. Enjoy your Tuesday evening. Little wildcard Baseball comes your way. Coming up next, Catch Oliver right here on ESPN seven hundred