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All right, what's going on? It is drivetime on a Thursday afternoon. It's about eleven minutes past the hour of two o'clock. It is a gorgeous day, man, beautiful day outside, about fifty three degrees and sunny here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. And as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along for the rise. Spence Jackets found the mic. That's Quarter Larsen behind the glass today producing the program.
We've got a little bit of a short show today.
We'll say good night out about four forty as opposed to six o'clock when we usually bid you a good evening for Utah Women's basketball Utah at Northwest during this evening. We had Lynn Roberts on the show this week to preview that game and talk a little Utah women's hoops, So stay tuned for that. But in between now and then, we have a lot to do on the show. Week eleven,
Pro football gets rolling tonight. Typically you'd hear that game on our radio station, but Utah women's basketball will be on the station tonight as opposed to the Commanders and the Eagles live in Philly at Lincoln Financial Field. The Eagles are a four point favorite this evening. So some Thursday night football for you guys. Utah Jazz are in action this evening. They're taking on the Dallas Mavericks at the Delta Center. That's gonna be a seven o'clock tip time.
It's on NBA TV. I'm not sure what the streaming situation is. These days with jazz basketball. I watch it on k Jazz, but a little jazz basketball lit NBA on the show today. The NBA up rolls along, sold you some jazz and some MBA on the show today. Of course, we are high speed ahead to the weekend in college football that includes a couple of really big games on the local level with BYU welcoming in Kansas to Lavelle Edwards Stadium for a late kick on Saturday night.
That's going to be an eight to fifteen kick. It is on ESPN, and this has been an interesting line to follow. It's been an interesting game to kind of prepare for. It's off oscillated a little bit. It's settled in at two point five as of right now. BYU a very slight favorite at home, and right now the game time forecast is about thirty two degrees, so it's going to be called down in Provo for the first situation for Kansas actually played BYU and Provo.
It's never happened before.
So that's a big game, as we've talked about, with BYU moving up to six, and the CFP Utah hits the road in Boulder for an early game to be ten o'clock Mountain time on Saturday, and that line has stayed at eleven point five for about twenty four hours. Looks like it's gonna be a nice day in Boulder, about forty eight degrees in sunny for kickoff at ten a m. Pregame coverage for that game on our station will be in at six am with Porter Larsen and Jordan win Bright and early on a Saturday morning.
So college football.
Almost here for the weekend and only a few games left man, and then the season will be behind us in the.
World of college football.
Nice win for the Utah Hockey Club last night, in fact, one of probably the best wins they've had all year, bouncing back beating a really good Carolina Hurricanes team for one. They're back in action tomorrow, taking on the Vegas Golden Knights at the Delta Center.
They'll be here in Salt Lake.
So a little hockey on the show today, a little bit of everything on the show today. Interesting article in The Athletic about adults complaining about officiating. Yeah, our guy Mark Carlin's taking it this week. Man, it seems like every day that kind of passes somebody else to write
a piece on it. And so we'll get to some of that on the program today as well, the latest on the transfer portal for Utah football, the latest on the help of the roster of Utah football, and we'll kind of move in that direction on a Thursday with a good guest list we'll start with a voice himself, Bill Riley.
Joins us as our first guest.
Coming up in just about fifteen minutes from right now, we'll catch up with the Ryles Big Show. Big Hour, brought to you by our friends at Big O' Tires, features Craig Bowler, Jack and Gordon Montsen live in studio for some jazz and some college football. Our buddy Aaron Falk from the Salt Lake Tribune rolls by, coming up just after four o'clock today, and then we'll say good nights. Yeah, just about four forty for Utah women's basketball as they
take on Northwestern. So Bill Riley, Craig Bowlerjack, Gordon Mounts, and Aaron Falk, Me Spence check, ats all of you, the great listeners. Happy Thursday to you, almost to the weekend. That young man, his name Porter Larson. He produces this show on a Thursday afternoon. All right, I was talking to Sean during cross Talk about you know, and look, there have been players that have a couple of players have already left the program.
Jalen Glover Pittman.
You know, obviously there are rumors about the health of certain players.
We know the Brandon's out for the year.
It seems like there's this underlying fear that down the stretch we go, there's gonna be some mass exodus for Utah football. This feels a little bit like unchartered territory. I mean, I don't know how many times I think coach Wood has only lost four straight games three or four times in his whole career. I'm not sure how
many times he's lost five straight. You combine that with the massive expectation, it just feels like there are a lot of people in the community right now worried about, you know, what the rest of the regular season will look like for Utah football.
Are you getting that sense at all?
Do you feel like this is a team that with three games left, understands they can still go bowling and play for the pride of the jersey they wear. Do you think we're going to see a motivated Utah football team the rest of the way.
Well, I think that, as is the case with every story, there's truth kind of in the middle there. Right, this is a team that is going to see attrition both through the end of the regular season and at the transfer portal opening. That's just the reality not only of this Utah football team, but of college football as a whole. It's something that you're gonna have to get used to. Whether you cheer for Utah, whether you cheer for BYU,
Utah State, whoever it may be. The transfer portal is remaining a very big thing in college football until we see landscape shifting changes in the way that that is approached. So yeah, I mean, you're going to see players that post Instagram, thank you Utah, thank you coach Wit for everything, for the opportunities, but I'm going to be taking my talents elsewhere. You're going to see numerous posts like that
when the transfer portal opens up. In addition to the ones you've already seen, you're going to see probably a couple more injury announcements, and you're going to see a team that is completely decimated in that regard. But I still think based on how they played against BYU, which although the result wasn't positive. I think was really really
energized and physical and motivated. I think they continue that at least the guys that you do see on the field, and yeah, they'll probably be a collective of guys that aren't that motivated. They're they're probably not going to see the sideline because Kyle Whittingh is pretty good at sniffing that stuff out. So a little bit of both in that regard spences as we near the end of the season.
Hopefully it's an attrition that isn't detrimental to the point where we don't get some quality football to end the year.
Three games left to get too if you want to go bowling, So we'll talk to you Top Football as they hit the road to take on Colorado today. Bill Riley will join us right out of the gates. He's our first guest on a Thursday. Butts before we get to Bill, courtesy of our friends and Standard Restaurants, apply your tailgate headquarters get everything you need to make your tail game epics. Stop by their location at thirty five hundred Southwest Temple check them out online. It's Standard Restaurant
dot Com. On a Thursday afternoon, it is time now for your opening Tip.
Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check. It's on Utah's number one sports talk Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurant Supply, your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurant Supply thirty five hundred Southwest Temple.
Good piece today in the Athletic one of my favorite spots.
You know.
We talked to c K yesterday Chris Camaradie Liven Studio about the old school approach of getting news where you actually just went to the source instead of logging onto your favorite social media outled and clicking on links that are algorithmically I think that's a word if it's not just roll with me fed to you as a result of what you consume or what they think you'll like. So Athletics kind of a one stop shop for me
in the morning. And Ralph Russo, who I like a lot we've had on the show before with a good piece today. The headline is as public criticism of college football refs heats up, it's on the people in charge to stay cool. And the first example that he points out is, of course what happened Saturday night when Utah left, Director Mark Carlin took to the podium and didn't need to, but decided to really go at the officials. And obviously
we know how the Big Twelve responded. The first sentence in the piece is UTA Athletic Director Mark Carlin should know better. But as the piece kind of rolls along, talks about Kirby Smart complaining about the refs after their win. They actually won the game and Kirby was still mad about the rescinded pass interference penalty October against Texas, and a myriad of other examples, including Kennya Matalolo, who at one point was thought to be potentially the next head
coach of Brigham Young before Kalani got the job. He's now with San Jose State, Texas Tech Joey McGuire. There are seven or eight different examples in Ralph's Peace of coaches and administrators just cracking on officials. And look, if you've listened to the show for a long time, you know that I'm not going to do a segment standing up for refs like I'm not a pro ref guy. I don't understand why anybody would want to do that job.
But oftentimes I do feel like they take the brunt of the criticism and the heat, and sometimes it's really out of bounds and very unfair. These are people too, that sometimes aren't very good at their jobs, just like sometimes coaches make bad play calls or have bad rotations, just like players drop passes or mis tackles, Officials miss calls. And I'm very rarely blamed the rest for a lost guy, and I haven't been a blame the rest for the loss last Saturday. I do think that call deserves context
and nuance when being talked about. It's not black or white, it's not I think Joel Klatt probably had the best breakdown of his opinion of the holding call last week in a vacuum letter of the law. Yes, that's a hold, and for BYU fans, that's all you need, and I've heard all of them all week long, like, yes, but that represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're looking for as a coach or a player when it comes to
the way the game is called. All you want is consistency, and you could essentially call that call pretty much every single play on one player or the other. I'm not debating the fact that black or white, in a vacuum letter of the law, that's the right call. We've all seen the replays, We've all seen the BYU bros. With a bunch of videos explaining exactly how it went down.
And I'm not debating that.
But I do think there's merit to the side of the Utah coaching staff and administrators that were frustrated with that type of call in that moment that, according to you know, the people involved in the game didn't think they were getting all game long. I get it, I get the frustration, I get the anger, But when it comes to, you know, the way that the I guess I'll just say the governing bodies and call in charge of officiating college football. I think it's probably time to
take this out of the hands of the conferences. And I don't really know what the answer is. Maybe just utilize one governing body that's separate from the NCAA, that's separate from any conference, like do away with the whole because you know, if you guys are Utah football fans.
You know the deal. For years, what did we hear about PAC twelve refs?
It was always PAC twelve refs, Pack twelve refs, this, PAC twelve refs that. And if you're tied to a conference and that officiating crew is assigned to a game, and will use just a Big twelve as an example. If it's a you know, it's a CFP game and BYU is hosting Ohio State or something along the lines, it's just a hypothetical and Big twelve refs are assigned to that game and BYU get some fortunate advantageous calls and ends up beating Ohio State. The rallying cry always
as well, the Big twelve refs. You know they had a hand in this because they're employed by the conference, right, and so just one governing body, separate from any conference, separate from college football, and just allow the refs to be in one union with one governing body, And therefore you take away the accusations of collusion, and you take away the language and the verbiage like it was stolen
from us. Because ultimately, as Ralph points out in his Peace, what happens here when it's the grown ups deciding to air their aggrievances about the officiating, they're doing the kids a disservice that play for the program, and the messaging will seep into the fan base whether you lack it or not, so it's worth your time.
Check it out.
It is up at the Athletic Ralph Russo wrote it today about this kind of permeating thing all season long in college football where a lot of people are out at the refs and it really is coming mostly from the grown ups, the coaches and the administrators. All Right, we say goodnight a little early today in time for Utah women's basketball. They're on the road taking on Northwestern. We had Lynn Roberts on the show this week to get you ready for that game.
We'll say a night about four forty.
But batting lead off on a Thursday afternoon, the Voice, the Voice himself, the Voice of the Utes, Bill Riley on a Thursday roles, Happy Thursday, man, How are you doing?
Spen's doing great? Are you doing that?
I'm well, I'm well. So I just need you to clear up you.
You clearly intentionally made Sean do the coach the show after that loss this week, didn't you.
That was an intentional move on you? Right?
I was hoping I could clone myself but basketball instead. But yes, I thought Sean. I thought it would be a good way for Sean to you get some good content for your show.
No, I like it, obviously I could, but it's been been a rough week up on the hill.
Bill.
I wondered, just from a thirty thousand foot view, what it's like in the building, what it's been like in the building this week, and how you feel like the guys are holding up well.
I haven't been.
Around the team a ton, but I think you know they're doing the best they can this week. I mean, it's just it's one of most things, Spence, the hits just keep on coming. You lose brand Keithy, you lose Brandon Rose. Brandon Rose. We find out today is pump with a social media for me to post up that you know he set with the Liz Frank's Spring in the second quarter. I've gotten cramps in my foot before from not having enough potassium and you wake up in
the middle of the night and you're dying. I can't imagine what kind of pain that kid was in and to cut that out Saturday was pretty spectacular. But it's it's tough.
I mean again, we did.
It's kind of a common theme every week we talk it's another injury, it's another loss. It's not the season Utah expected. But you know, you put your head down, you put your nose down. I mean, Whittingham's been here before, He's not been through five losses in a row before.
But trying to snap that striegu But it's just I mean, at this point in time, you just kind of scratch your head and say it wasn't meant to be this year because the injury told when everything else are just it's just unbelievable.
So you know, it is Thursday, and ultimately we try to move forward and we'll get to Colorado on a moment, but I haven't had a chance to catch up with you, so we're gonna stay in the space of last Saturday for a minute at Riles, And I just got to ask you about the call, you know, the holding call. It's been debated, it's been discussed, We've talked about it all week, and it cannot be summarized with one reductive statement. Now BYU fans will say letter of the law, that's
a hole and that's all they need. Okay, that's fine, and that's not necessarily wrong. But I completely understand the frustration on the side of Utah coaches and apparently administrators, as was made clear after the game, But how did you kind of digest that moment when it went down and now it's four or five days later, where you at with it?
Well, here's what I'll say. You know, there's no black and white here. You know, in all of sports spence, whether you're talking about basketball or baseball, or soccer or football, you as an athlete based the way you play on how officials officiated game. And one of the common demes Scott and I have had on broadcast this year, it's been amazing the amount of physicality the Big twelve allows on the outside. It's a one to eighty from where
you saw in the Pac twelve. If you looked at a at a wide receiver wrong, they were throwing a flag on you. It's been a very physical season compared to what Utah has played in and that's fine. If that's the way you play, that's the way you play. It's no different than when I would talk to Jason
christ or Pablo Mascroini over the years. You know, you talk about a referee in the way that they would call games and cards and things, They're like, hey, we just want to know that how you're calling the game in the first five minutes, that's how we set our tone for the game. And it's the same thing in basketball, which you played at a high level, you know how officials are going to call the game. It's no different in football. Well, that's how the game has been played
called all year long. It's been called physically. It's not been called physical, it's been physicality has been allowed, and it was allowed in that game the other night, both ways Utah and BYU. So to see that play was their contact. Absolutely there was contact, but it wasn't egregious contact. And to echo what Rick Neuheisel said the other day with ken Zano and Wilner, it's almost as if you're looking for that to make a call and to use in another analogy i'd heard, I think Joel Klatt used
this week, which I think is a great one. In baseball, at the strike zone, you set up the way you're going to hit based on how the umpire's calling the strikes and balls. And I just think the way that the game had been called, the way the season's been called, that wasn't a flag that was thrown many, if any times this year. So but with that being said, Utah had opportunities. You didn't score a point in the second half.
You had the ball at the fifty yard line twice late and weren't able to either move the ball or get into field goal range. So there's two ways to look at it. But I think the call itself was a little off based on how the game had been called this year.
And especially in that moment, you know, and it really is valid to bring up the fact that Jake Retz left wasn't even looking in that direction and he was basically in Karen's hands. I mean, it's a tough thing to swallow, for sure, but I want to move over Ryles because you know, was at the game, fun watching on the sidelines with Sean A. Bunchak's hute players, stayed for the whole thing afterwards, talked to some people from
both sides, and then I'm walking home. I think it was close to two am, and maybe a little bit earlier, but my phone just blows up and it's like, you, did you hear what Mark Carlin just said.
I'm like, no, I'm on my way home.
So my buddy sends me a link to the social media post of the video, and when I heard it, I just went, oh, no, Like I thought he was going to be in so much trouble Brett Yormark Northeast sleeping with the Fishes Commissioner Big twelve. When I heard it was forty K and a public reprimand I actually was a little bit relieved for Mark, because my experience with Mark Carlin is that he's smart, he's measured, he doesn't I don't know the man.
He's not a great friend.
Of mine, but I've interviewed him probably fifty times, and every time I'm at a game, we chat, and it just seemed a little bit out of character. So I just wondered how you digested that moment and ultimately what you think the motivation was.
Well, I just think it was the emotion of the moment. I mean, that's that's really what it was feeling, not only the emotion of the moment, but the emotion of the season, you know, and seeing how hard the guys played and seeing leaving it all out there, considering they had lost four games in a row. I just kind of I kind of saw it as an emotional moment.
Yeah, for sure.
And you know, ultimately My guess is he'd like a mulligan, And believe me, I would like seventy five thousand mulligans for the way I've I've handled certain situations. So life goes on, and you know, he doesn't deserve to get hit over the head with it on a daily basis. But a lot of people have been talking about it locally and nationally. All right, excuse me, here's a simple question with a nuanced answer. How good is byu?
Bill? How good are they?
I continue to say it's Spence that is a good football team. They are a good football team that again doesn't beat themselves, opportunistic when opportunities present themselves. And I will say this, they are a team that's pretty resilient too. I mean, let's be honest. The game didn't end on the holding call. They got ten yards, They still had to make plays, they still had to get themselves into
field goal range. And again I say it all the time, when you're a good team and you don't beat yourself, sometimes bounces come your way. You know, I'm not sure that that but I've never heard definitively, but I'm not sure that ball was intended for Chase Roberts I think that ball was sailed, and I think it was partially tipped, and I don't think he was he was gunning for Chase, but Chase Roberts was in the right place at the right time and made a heck of a grab near midfield.
I just think that this is a good football team. Are they beatable? Yes, they are. They are beatable. Kansas is very talented. If they played the way they played last week against Iowa State, they could they could probably win that game. But at the end of the day, I just I think they're a good football team that doesn't beat themselves. I don't know how good they are Spence, but they're good enough. And they're undefeated through nine games
in a conference that's seen a lot of chaos. They've been the one team that's avoided the chaos.
Yep, yeah, for sure.
All right, excuse me, So, Micah Pittman takes off Jalen Glovers and the transfer portal, and as you referenced earlier, this is this is uncharted territory for Utah football under Kyle Whittingham. And it's not just five straight losses. It's five straight losses combined with the preseason expectations that everybody, not just us, this was not a homer take. I mean Vegas, the media locally and nationally, everybody thought if Utah didn't win the Big Twelve, they'd be right there
in the end. So I know there's kind of like this underlying fear across the community that maybe there's gonna be some mass exo this and guys who are just gonna quit on the team. I can't collaborate that, but we have seen not just in injuries, but not players leaving. What are your thoughts on just kind of what we'll see from this team the rest of the way when it comes to how committed they are to playing for this program.
Well, I think you're going to see the guys that want to be there play their butts off. I don't know what happened to Jalen Glover. I'm sure he didn't probably feel like he was getting the playing time that he thought he should. I don't know, he hadn't got the carries. It's been mostly you know, Mackay Bernard, a little bit of Charlie Vincent and some others, Mike Mitchell, but I you know, if you're staying around to play here, the DNA of what Kyle witting in and you saw
Saturday night. Those guys played their tails off. It was probably the best effort they had given all things considered, all year long. It's going to be tough. They've lost five games, but I would be very surprised if you saw anything but great effort from the guys that stay around Again. I don't know what Pittman's story ultimately was. I know he put out a social media post. I haven't talked to Jalen Glover or probably will I. He's
chosen to go someplace else. But I would be very surprised if you didn't get a great effort Saturday in the final two games from this team.
So as you reference, Brandon Rose out for the season with an injury that happened early in the game, which is surprising because he actually looked really, really good. And so now it's Isaac under center, and now it's Colorado on the road. They're an eleven point five point dog
bill as they head to Boulder. Let's just start on the offensive side, because we know that look the defense, and one of the things that we'll always look back on this year is just an average offense probably puts this team right in the mix for a conference championship because the defense continues to be the defense were accustomed
to when it's Kyle and it's Morgan. So Isaac hunder center, Colorado's the opponent offensively, what are you looking for just kind of early on to indicate maybe they've got a shot to put some points on the board.
Well, I mean, the good news is Isaac's got four or five six games under his belt. He's played in these games, so stepping up and playing is not going to be a departure. There's not many guys you can go through that would be your quote unquote third quarterback, which technically he is second or third quarterback, but he's got the experience. I don't think it's markedly different than what we saw a week ago. Now we might have an insight as to why the offense wasn't quite as
good in the second half. Now and we find out that that, you know, Brandon Rose got hurt late in the second quarter, that's according to what his mom said, So maybe that changed some things up. I thought some of the stuff they did in the first half was terrific. Last week. One of those guys that was a big part of it was bran Keithy. Well, bran Keithy's now done too, But there's guys on the roster that have you know, there's there's a resume. Landed King doesn't have
it this year, but he did last year. You know, we've seen maybe we see a little bit more of Caleb Lohner saw him at the basketball game the other night and he was in pretty good spirits, so maybe we see a little bit more of that. Dorian Singer still the most productive guy they've had in the past game, so I don't think all his lost fense, But I will say this Colorado's better defensively than they have been
in recent years. They're actually playing some pretty good defense, So Utah is going to have to score some points even if the defense plays really well. That's a good offense on the other side, Shador Sanders and Travis Hunter and Horn and that whole past game is really really good.
So as good as the effort was last week, you're going to have to get a similar effort defensively, and you're probably going to have to find a way to score a little bit more than twenty one points on the road against that Colorado offense.
Have you noticed anything specifically or you know, nuanced if you want to get into it at all.
About Mike Bajakian as a play caller.
Now that we have a couple of, you know, three games under our belts with him calling the plays as opposed to Andy, is there any thing that stands out that makes him a little bit different or unique with his play calling style.
I haven't noticed a great departure from it. I thought that they were doing a little bit of play action last week that was allowing Brandon Rose to throw the ball down the field a little bit more. But I haven't noticed any any great departure in scheme. Maybe some subtle things, but nothing's that really pops to me.
All right.
So you referenced Colorado and of course Shador, who a lot of people think might be the you know, one of the first players picked in the drafts of not number one overall, and if he's not, it might be his wide receiver Travis Hunter. But they've got four or five wide receiver weapons. It's not just Travis Hunter that are all big playmaking threats.
They don't run the ball very well because they don't have to.
It's a lot of short, intermediate passes their offensive line well improved, does allow pressure on the quarterback. As you've gone through your prep, what do you most attribute to a vastly.
Improved Colorado team? Coach by Deon Sanders.
I just think that they are doing a lot of what they did. I think he's still been sacked at a pretty high rate spence, but not at the same rate that he was a year ago. So I think the offensive line is a little bit more improved. They run it about the same that they did. But but I think for me, it's not really a change of
what they've done offensively. But I think what I was saying a minute ago, they're much better defensively, and they're they're getting some stops, forcing some takeaways, some stuff like that. Shador is still very very good.
He just he simply is. He's very very good.
And the receivers are outstanding as well. Uh, slightly improved offensive line play, but they're getting better play. And you know, somebody has Dean about it miss press conference the other days, like we turned the roster over, we've got we've got better guys here now, he said, We've just you know, we turned it over again and we've just got better guys. They've just got high level transfers from a lot of programs. They're doing good stuff for him.
I want to get a couple of basketball thoughts from you, but before we do that, I have a Big twelve just macro question, because you know b YU. Last week CFP the first iteration of the CFP rankings they rolling at nine. I thought that was damning and diving on the Big twelve, and I thought that was a message from the CFP committee that you are a one bid league and whoever wins the championship game will get that bid.
Well.
BYU moves up three spots to six, And I do think there's a world now that if they win their final three games and we'll just operate off the hypothetical that they're roll into Dallas and play a really good Colorado team that maybe rolls in with one conference loss. And I feel like if Colorado beats BYU and BYU ends the season as a twelve to one second place Big twelve team, I think it'd be really hard to
keep them out build. Do you feel like, as we you know, kind of inch towards the end of the season, this is going to be a one bid league, or do you think they can sneak two in.
No, it's a one bid league. There's just not enough quality wins for anybody. Like BYU has moved up a little bit because there's been attrition in some of the other leagues as well, and they're undefeated, and so I think that it's a one bid league this year. I just I don't really see a world unless maybe Colorado runs the table and then maybe deeps BYU. I just right now it appears to me to be of one
big league. I'm not sure that i'd put in five or six from the SEC or anything like that, but I just I don't know there's been enough, you know, not only quality wins within the conference this year, but also kind of outside the league either. So I'm kind of in the same boat as you.
All right, before I set you loose, we've seen three games from the Utah men's basketball team, and they've blown out three pretty bad teams queens from Charlotte, not from New York, Okay, And you know, they look very fluid, they're knocking down shots, they're taking a lot of threes. Maybe we'll learn a little bit more coming up in a couple of days against Mississippi State. But as we've talked about Ryle's, I mean, this conference it's just nuts.
I'm looking at their schedule and it is littered with top twenty five teams, top ten teams. Your Rock Chalk Jayhawks will be here in February, so that should be fun. But what stands out most about these three games that you've seen so far? And do you feel like we could see maybe a team that And I saw Craig at the game and he said to me, we're going to be better than people think him. Coaches always say that sometimes it is a real thing.
Sometimes it's not.
What stands out most about this Utah men's basketball team so far, Well, yeah.
They hand had their bigs. They've been just their front court. They lost one for the year, one's been down for a while, Lovern's got an ankle injury. So they've played a lot of small ball and three four guard stuff.
Spence.
They really shoot it well. They've got a lot of guys that can really shoot the basketball. And they're pretty connected too. It's a really connected group. For having as many new faces as they do, they're really connected. So they haven't played dumb basketball. They played a really good pace. They've got guys that can handle the ball. Mike Sharup Johnson, the kid from Dayton and San Francisco in Mongolia. He's a really nice player at six foot nine, handling the basketball,
shooting the basketball. The Madson brothers can shoot lights out. You've got guys like a sar and DAWs who can really rebound and guard. Guy like Jake wall Lean is just a good energy guy, Miro Little. They've just got a little bit of everything. Now, again, this is a non conference, They've played three teams. We're gonna get a good idea Sunday, you know, Sunday they play at MISSUS. They play Mississippi State, not on campus, but in the state of Mississippi, just outside of Memphis. So we'll get
a better feel for them coming up on Sunday. But I do, and I don't disagree with Craig. I think that this team, I mean, there's nowhere to go but up. Obviously, they were picked sixteenth, But I think this team probably outperforms their preseason projections if they stay healthy, because they've got a lot of really good interchangeable parts. They've got a lot of really good shooting, and again they're really connected teams. So I at least through three games, I really like what I've seen.
All Right, Riles, Well, thanks for the time, man, have a great weekend and we'll get you back on soon.
Thanks Ben.
All Right, Bill Riley, the voice of the Utes.
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Craig Bowler, Jack, Gordon Mattson live in studio coming up next.
For fifteen years, the Big Show dominated the Utah Sports talk airwaves. First it was Craig Bowler, Jack and Gordon Monson, followed by Spence check Its and Monson.
Now all three.
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We've done it. It's like two straight weeks. It's a streak, man, Great to.
See you guys. There's two in a row. Is that a streak? I think that's the definition of a street. Yeah, two in a row, I'll sell them, manhappy.
Yes, Well, if two in a row is a streak, b y us on a winning streak over Utah. Huh see what I did there? Two straight games? So gentlemen, thanks for joining us. Let's do some college football before we get to some jazz of the streak. Well, not a winning street. They had a six to zero deficit street. Then gonna be a long term you two on the road and then well you know Phoenix. Yeah, good, Booker is good. I was at the game. That was fun.
I enjoyed it.
We'll get to some jazz. But all right, Gordon, this week it's been a busy week. I'm gonna take a little time off. You get you guys, remember what rivalry week is like and then the reaction week. It's like, dude, I need a day off so porters can drive the ship tomorrow and potentially Monday and Tuesday.
I'm gonna go play a little golf. But let's let let's start. Let's let's start with a holding penalty. Let's just get into the good stuff.
Okay, Because if you're a BYU fan, it's black or white. It's it was a hold letter of the law, period. But it's a little bit more complex than that. I'm not saying that's why Utah lost the game. Make a stop, but how did you digest the call in real time? And where are you at about four days later?
I get the complication that you're you're alluding to there, But it was a hold. I mean, you know, so if you want to if you here, here's the thing about that. You know, you saw Retz left, look to his left. He wanted to hit that kid and he was held. And so when that happens, it affects the play. So it's not just one little teeny hold over here that doesn't matter. It does matter. But I understand, you know, when you when you have the game one essentially and
then you know you see the flag. I get the I frustration involved in it, but you know it was the right call.
It was a legitimate call.
I'd be really ticked off if I were a ute if it wasn't a hold and they call it anyway because the judgment comes into play and whatnot. But well, that's the way I look at it. And what happened after that we can get to if you want. But anyway, Utah had a chance to win that game so many different ways, so many different times, and they didn't take advantage of it. So to hone in on that one play. I get the frustration, but it's not the truth.
What do you think, Rrect?
You know this happens so many times in my career and all you, all of us have been there at games and the games I've called. I can't tell you how many times one particular call will impact or could be the difference between a win or a loss. You know, when I've talked to officials and coaches, I mean, this is a conversation that they don't want to have, but they always say, look, call the game like you would in the first quarter, and then carry that throughout. So
ask yourself, is that a hold in the first quarter? Absolutely, the flag comes out and you just say, live to play another day. The issue in all of professional and amateur sports is the moment and that one moment that changes the direction of an important.
Game, especially asency.
Yeah, yeah, if you're going to call that in the fourth quarter, better damn bett been called in the first and vice versa. If you threw the flag in the first quarter, then the official may have no other choice no matter what the situation may be.
It's the same thing.
Remember last year, Marketing hit a three in the corner and KD was there and they reversed the call and everybody went crazy. Replay has its reasons, and you know, it gives you the second and third looks at different angles.
But I think it's the consistency of officiating that's is kind of the the point of anger at times, because sometimes you don't see that call made early, then you see it late, and then you start to say, well, hey man, who's paying your you know who paid you this week and all that stuff.
It should always be made.
Yes, that's the point is that that call and I hope you know Utah fans as they cooled down figure it out. I hate personally, I hate to see that call determine an outcome, But also you make a great point. Can you stop them from that point on which they were unable to do?
Yeah, And the swing of emotions was a liar because I was on the sideline right in front of the muss and it reminded me of the year where block kick, miskick, block kick, miskick, rush the field, go back rush, and you fans thought they want it once Caline got the time out in, they thought they wanted twice Corene sacked Jake, but Gordon to your point, after the hold, there was still a lot b why you had to do to put themselves in position to kick that game winning field goal.
For me, when Chase got the pass and went all right, not good, you know, when did you start to sense that Byu is going to be able to capitalize on the second chance they were awarded.
Well, based on what we've seen out of that team in previous weeks, I thought there was a chance. I mean, I didn't think it was a great chance, but I thought, yeah, it's certainly possible that they could regroup and get down the field.
They just needed a field goal. Yep, And but you tak It's like.
When someone asked Kyle whitting Cam that after the game, he said, We've seen that all season. You know, where the defense plays great and then they give up a certain something or a certain something happens and they end up losing. Now five straight. It's Spence, You've been doing this a long long time, bowler. You and I started in this business about the same time, centuries ago. We get so tired of people complaining about referee and officiating.
I mean that happens in every sport. Remember Stockton said.
That an official with a whistle can affect every single almost every single outcome in the last three minutes of a game.
Absolutely, and that may be true.
But do you want to make do you want to make your sport completely illegitimate? Because that's what you're doing when you do that. Yeah, and I get that. Like with the placement of a ball, we talked about this before. How can you place that ball when it's within an inch of the first down? How can you get that right? It's almost impossible to get it right. But if you complain about it too much, then you might as well not even watch football.
That's why Tennis went with cyclops, remember, you know, because no one could get whether the ball had skipped on the out of bounds or what a fault on a serve. I mean you have to ask yourself, how much do you want technology to impact you know, a game.
You don't like it at all Baller based on past conversation, I'm not a big fan.
You know, the replay has purpose at the right time, but it can't dictate the human factor that still is all the part of all of us. I mean, you know, I thought the minute that they that Colinie got the time out, I thought, man, bang, that has changed the entire tempo of this game, this this arena, the stadium, whatever the muss was out it was insane.
Was it not ever there? Yeah, the stadium looked good. I mean, fans not shown up turned out to be completely incourable.
Then you get down to how do they move the ball. Sometimes what I see in games I've called is defensive coordinators begin to say, let's not give up the big play. But in this case, with a good foot in hand for BYU, you start to kind of play softer, you play prevent type defense. Uh, the second level is soft, and you kind of get something underneath, hoping that they'll run the clock and can't get out of bounce, so you give up middle field and it just it worked
out as good as it could be. And you know, I just heard Bill coming in opportunistic and I've used that word myself. BYU has not hurt themselves much this year, and when the opportunity comes, they've taken it. It started with Case State and they have rolled from that point on. They haven't made too many mistakes. They've been lucky.
Started before that against Cess in US.
That's true, that's true, the week prior, right, and then Case State comes in that three minute span, bang bang bank it's over. And it's an amazing feat this year for what BYU's done. Good defense, a solid offense, a really good head coach, and they have more athletes and more speed than I think than any of us thought when the preseason polls came out.
No.
Bowler's another thing.
And you've seen this a thousand times, both of you in basketball especially, but confidence, man, they really think they're gonna win every game. And you talk to them beforehand, you see the way they're the body language, everything they really think they're gonna win. They played poorly in that game, and give the US credit. I mean, that's about the stuff as I've seen them play all year. I mean, they've really showed up to play and they played hard,
and that defense is legitimate. That defense is good, very good. But the offense just can't seem to get it together when they need to. New quarterback comes in, surprises byu with some stuff with his legs, and the utes are looking better than I've seen him looking a long long time. Yeah, and then it absolutely evaporates in the second half. There's nothing, almost nothing in that second half. And why Well, maybe Jay Hill had a little something to do with that.
Well, and we also found out today via Brandon rose mother's Instagram post or maybe it was Twitter.
I don't know.
It's all cesspool that he had a Liz Frank fracture in the second quarter.
He plays, keep playing him.
I have no idea a why they played him, and be how he played. Isaac was ready and Brandon certainly showed that. Maybe he should have been the backup all along.
In my opinion, But how do you march the kid out with a broken leg, and how does he even play. I mean that to me, does explain the second half an emic offense.
Yeah, I wonder if he actually let them know he did, because they shot him off.
Yeah, at least at halftime. They shot him up at half time.
You see an athlete who's hurt and then he comes back and he's able to move.
Yeah, he got shot. That's you know what happens. Come on, man, it's all about tape. Tape laced with viking in.
No.
I say, I've seen so many guys come out there. Man, got that damn ankle looks like it's a make, it's a half cast. But then underneath that tape is another little joy joy shot that takes the pain away.
Can I say this about the Huts, I'm really confused. I mean, the defense is really good. They've had their moments where they've let up a little bit, but the offense isn't. But there's no way with the team with that kind of defense should lose five straight games.
An average offense puts this team in contention for the Big twelve ten.
Injury with well three three straight losses at home. I mean, it's it's mind boggling. Hasn't happened under Kyle five game losing streight. No, and I got to throw this out because the the hype of this team I've never seen before nationally and everybody locally nationally agreed that Utah was going to be a powerhouse and potentially in the postseason playoff scheme of things, and even hosts a first round game.
I'm stunned that an injury to Cam again derailed this team and the confidence of that injury impacted it so severely comes back injured again. But I think it's the anemic or the unpredictable offense that tired the defense to say, look, guys, hey, hold my hand up. Can you help us? We can only do so much. I mean, if you only allowed seven to ten points a game, you've done your job.
But there was just very little help. But you could just see.
The wind of the utes hopes for a magical season go away with that early season run into the Gatorade buckets by Cam Rising.
What were you guys thinking at the half when it's twenty one to ten.
I thought you ta had them, I really did, especially the way they were playing.
Yes by you could not move the ball. They needed a kick return for a touch teams touchdown.
But on offense's to this, yeah, yeah, Parker's talk about yeah, for sure, kid can run, A kid can run, but they could not.
Move the ball.
And I thought twenty one points second quarter, Utah's found something. I didn't think Utah was gonna hang another twenty one on them, but I thought, second half, maybe you get a touchdown, a field goal, And I said, if they score, if Utah scores twenty four plus points, they win the game. And they could have with one field goal in the second half. So for me, Gordon halftime, I thought, it feels like Utah's got this one.
They look like they And I understand that some people could be frustrated with a couple of things. First of all, you put Brandon Rose in there, and he's playing fantastic early on, and you're thinking, where's this kid been all year when the uts have been struggling. So that's a coaching decision. Why didn't they see that? Why didn't they see that this kid could do that? And then there's the emotion side of football, and does it take a rival for Utah to bring its best? And that's what
they did in the first half. They brought their best and then they couldn't sustain it in the second half. But so as much as Utah was playing well, it's sort of an indictment too, because why can't you play like this all the time.
It's a fair question. And additionally, remember the start of the year, it's like, oh, we get Cam and Brandt back. Now they're both on the shelf. Grand Keithy goes out with an injury score two tds in the first half. The second half obviously looked a lot different with him on the sideline.
You know, you lose weapons.
And we always talk about the ones, the twos, and the threes and really good teams. I remember Nick Saban I told this story before, telling us, Yeah, I got two really good damn running backs back here.
But tell you what, look across the three boys.
You see that eight on over there, I got three better running backs that the ones that are on the gonna I'll be starting on Saturday. You know, that's how you win championships and survive injury. But solved, Now you got Glover that's leaving for the transfer portal, and I'm just wondering how much of this will snowball into what I'm sure Utah fans don't want to see a mass exodus.
With the amount of emotion that went into the start of this season, there's going to be a lot of people in a lot of young men's ears saying, you know, you got to move on. You know this isn't working out. You're gonna have to get more playing time someplace else. You know that the studs and those who really want to play for the University of Utah will stay and you're going to see how they perform in these final couple of games as they wind down a season.
Yeah all right, Oh no, please, I'm just curious about an important question, Spence. You've been studying this team all year long. Is there is there is it necessary to have a cultural shift?
Man, That's the last thing you would think under Kyle.
This has been paved, this has been concreted, This is chiseledon stone. Granted the way that everyone who talks Kyle Whittingham and the University of Utah they are coaches, need to come visit to understand what he's built.
Here's a great coach. Yeah right, and all of a sudden in one year. I don't think you can just break it down or think that the granted has you know, major cracks in it. But then you start to get the wondermunth of is Kyle beginning to wind down himself, and then you get the wonderment of Morgan Scally And then you know players begin to doubt should they commit when in the past there was no doubt. So all that I think comes into play in this discussion.
I'll say this about Kyle Whittingham.
He's near the end and he's got a lot of reasons to live beyond football. As absorbed as he's been through the years in football, I think people say, oh, well, he wouldn't walk away after a season like this. I don't think Kyle Whittingham cares. I don't think he cares about I mean, he cares. He wants to win, sure, obviously, but he didn't have to win a championship. He didn't have to go to a college football playoff this year in order to do that.
Now.
I don't know what he's going to do, but he's got all kinds of reasons to live beyond football. And he's got great He's got ten grandkids, he's got family. He doesn't want to miss things that he missed for so long in his career. And I think that's really important to him, and that's a compliment to him. He's he's a smart man. He's educated a lot of different things. He has a lot of different interests. It's not just
about football all the time. Again, I don't know what he's gonna do, but I think the results of this season do not matter as far as answering that question.
Yeah, that's interesting, and I'll just say right off the top, I don't know. I have no idea what he's going to do, nor do I know how this season has affected his future playing. Yeah, I'll say on Monday, when he stepped up to do media, I'm like, my man's tired, you know, like, and of course he is. First of all, college football is a grind, period and the stuff is hard.
I interviewed him last week and we pre recorded it because they practiced in the afternoon, and before the interview went live, I said, how are you holding up?
He's like, this is hard. He's like, this is hard. This is really hard, and it's all consuming. Yeah. Yeahple don't understand.
Even more so now Nil has changed the world, and just the time and the consumption and the film and the way you have to relate to players for portal wins, for portal nonstant recruits. It's so much different than the days of Bear Bryant, you know, Woody up at Ohio State, where you just kind of said, you know, young man, you want to play, all right, come on in, sign to dotted lane and you're gonna get yourself an education, or at least they thought, you know, but there's no
no idea of a transfer portal. Now what do you think Nick Saban's out of the game because you didn't have to go through the NIO portal?
Right, Yeah, And I do wonder though, without again being very clear, I have no idea what Kyle is going to do. You guys know, coaches, man, these are maniacal guys that are oftentimes control freaks, and oftentimes when they try to I always reference Greg Popovitch, right, because for the final four years of Tim Duncan's career, Bob said, when he's done, I'm doone. Duncan retires and he signed like a five year deal work, you know, and we're like, what's going And he admitted he said, I took the.
Off season, I thought about it. I love doing this. They pay me a lot of money. To do it. Jerry was kind of like that.
Obviously, the Darren stuff ultimately was enough for Jerry to walk away. Part of me wonders if Kyle would really miss it to your point, hobbies, golf, family, all the things.
Can only play so much golf.
And you always hear players say like, even players that get into coaching or a front office admin stuff, it never is the same as the buzz they had when they play right. And I don't care if Kyle plays himself to be a scratch golfer, I don't think it'll ever approach the buzz he gets coaching a team in a big game. I just wonder if he's able to walk away with I think three years left on his deal.
Very few, I'm sorry, Gordo, very few players and coaches are really able to do that. Huh, Because you just said the magic word. It's about the love of the game, but also the locker room. There's something about it. Players miss it. There's an addiction there, there's an adrenaline there that becomes part of your life, your soul, and I hope listeners understand that anybody who's been in a huddle,
who's been in a locker room, understand. And you know you spend so much time, you know, on a football field or on the basketball court, sweating your guts out. And yeah, you're well paid. But still the human factor you have to always remember, plays a big factor in this discussion because that's all Wit knows, right. I mean, he's good with youth. He does have family, as Gordon says,
and sometimes you feel cheated along the way. Sometimes marriages don't quite work out because the time consumption is so is so high. But man, it's when you walk you have to be ready to say I'm really in on this decision.
Yeah, remember, because.
Once you leave, man, uh, there's somebody else walking right in to fill the gap. And it's the same way when you hurt Taylor Hendricks, for example, you know, having the surgery last week. He's on his own right now, even though he's got training and he's going to rehab. But man, he's got some mind games going on right now because he's young. He wants to play, and he has some doubt and coaches help you get rid of that.
Remember though, that Kyle's dad unfortunately passed away at sixty four. Kyle turned sixty five next week, and he's always said he doesn't want to coach into his later years, well our later years here.
Yet I don't know.
There's another component to this whole thing is he's damn good at what he does. He hasn't lost it, he said in that press conference I wrote about.
This hasn't posted yet.
But he said that this is He started to say, this is one of the most frustrated and then he stopped and said, no, it's the most frustrating season I've ever had in my career.
And that's saying something.
But whether that's going to really chase him out, I think it's other things on his mind beyond just the difficulties of today.
Yeah, and I tend to agree with that.
It's just funny as we're talking about this topic, so many things are kind of permeating through my head about coaches, and I can remember the great Hubie Brown, not Hugh B.
Brown, but Hube Brown, the former NBA coach. I'm surprised.
I was born of goodly parents over here, Gordon, Okay, come on, I'm well trained in the doctum.
I seeing we're going to hear the story of the current Bush, but go ahead, totally.
But I remember it was Quinn Snyder's first year with the Jazz.
And I know who Hube a little bit.
He was Nick's coach back in the day, and he was in town calling a game, and so I got there early before I had to do the pregame hit. I walked over to Hubie and I said, tell me about Quinn.
He's new.
You know, what do you think? He seems really sharp? And Hubie Brown said to me, he's incredibly smart. He's very sharp. He's probably gonna burn himself out after like six or seven years. It took eight. After eight years, Quinn's like, I gotta go to the beach for a while, Like I can't do this. And so I wonder on the scale of normal to maniacle where Quinn certainly danced the dance where Kyle is, because I, honestly, I really
don't know. I could see him walking after this, as you said, Gordon, not affected by the lack of wins and losses.
But I could also see him like, I'm not going out like this. Yeah.
See, that's the other point of the equation is Quinn was burned out. Quinn had, you know, Donovan and Rudy to deal with.
Oh, you think the texts at two o'clock in the morning, and he reminded me of you a little bit.
Sometimes I'll take that as a compliment. It is okay, thank you. I think Covid burned out Quinn a lot. I mean, the jazz right in the middle of it, and Gobert's right in the center of it. And that Oklahoma City night was a stressful one. But he got through it, got us all through it.
And then the he couldn't he couldn't bring Donovan and Rudy back, and I think that kind of frustrated him and he started to find some doubt, if that makes sense, because that's what he prided himself and being was kind of the psychologist and a mad scientist who was able to formulate, you know, the plan to get everything back. You know, Kyle will have to make a tough decision. Do you legacy? Is how important it is? Is it
to you? Do you leave under he's talk with circumstances or do you refuel Gordo knowing that you that Kyle Whittingham is still a good coach and players want to play at Utah and do you come back? And does that motivate you to to maybe reset the battery or recharge you to say I'm gonna I'm gonna push this team back into the forefront.
It could go either way, but his image is already carved on the mountain for sure. I mean, he's got nothing. It's not gonna change his legacy. He's a he's a great.
But it's in his own mind. I get it. I get you have to walk away satisfied.
Yeah, And there's something else involved in it, like you were alluding to earlier, is an identity. Your identity gets wrapped up in what you do. Coaching football isn't just your job, it's who you are.
Yes, that's such a good point. It becomes your identity. All right.
I want to do some jazz with our next segment, but before we break, we we've got to talk about what happened after the game. Because I'm over on the sideline watching with a bunch of former utes and Sean was there too, And after the game I went over to say I to Klanie and a Rod and you congratulate them and kind of stayed to see the scene and dodge water bottles because water bottles were being thrown.
So I'm on my way home, I'm walking home and suddenly my phone just blows up, like this is weird. I get worried, like somebody's calling me or texting me, maybe something's wrong. It was just like ten different texts like dude, did you just hear what Mark Carland said?
I'm like no, I'm walking home.
So my buddy sends me the link to a social video and I pull it up and I listened to it, and I go, oh, man, I thought he was going to be in so much trouble. We interviewed Brett Ormark Big twelve Media days. He's an old exec from the Brooklyn Nets. He is in northeast. You will be swimming with the fishes with a dead horse's head in your bed if you mess with me. And so when I
saw the release the next day, a couple things. First of all, I would have loved to be there when your Mark woke up and looked at his phone and went, wait, what you got to be kidding me? So I thought forty k and a public reprimand was actually I was happy for Mark because I thought he was going to be a lot of trouble. Mark Carlin, in my experience, is a smart, measured man who doesn't react with emotion.
Now we're not best buds, we don't hang out, but I've probably interviewed him fifty times and every time I'm up there, I seek him out and talk to him, and he's very nice to me. We have a good relationship. That's just a bad look man. And my guess is I haven't talked to him. We try to get him on the show. Hopefully we'll get him on the next couple of weeks. He'd like him all again. I think he would in that moment. Gordon will start with you,
then Craig will get your thoughts. What was your reaction to the comments of Mark Carlin after the game.
Well, I've written two columns on it, shaming him because that was just stupid on his part. Let's say it the way it is. I agree with you. Mark Carlin's a smart guy. I've had good communications with him through the years. I've communicated with his dad. I mean, he's a bright guy and he's a capable guy.
But he lost it.
He absolutely lost it, and that's no way for an administrator to comport himself. I don't care how frustrated he are. Do that and then to throw in on top of that, the whole thing. I'm not happy to be a part of the Big twelve. I mean, come on, you can't do they stole it from him. Oh, here we go, Thanks Donald Trump. I appreciate it.
I thought i'd wake up to a voicemail of Mark calling Brett Yormark saying, can you find me two points.
Stunt? Maybe he thought he could.
And anyway, it's just it was out of bounds and he I agree. And Kyle wouldn't even address this when he was asked. It is a press conference earlier this week about and I thought Kyle.
Kyle is articulate and he he's straight to the point.
The only problem I have a Kyle is the fact that he won't ever tell anybody whose quarterback it will be, because I think that's ridiculous.
But anyway, on Saturday, yeah.
He said that sometimes Kyle Whitingham said, sometimes people say things that they don't mean or that they wouldn't say under normal circumstance. For sure, And he said he included because he was unhappy with the fact that he called it ridiculous.
I'll raise my hand.
Oh yeah, we all have right and so look, just face the music. Mark, you blew it. You messed it up, You got fine, admit it, move forward. I don't think some people were calling for his job. I think that's Look. Sometimes we say things and just but his but his statement afterwards wasn't an apology. He sure have come clean completely. He didn't do that, and I thought that was a mistake on it. So I think he made two mistakes in that. But is he capable of overcoming that? Of
course he is. He's a he's a bright dude.
Yeah.
I was shocked because he wouldn't allow a head coach or any of your players to basically echo any of those sentiment sentiments after a game of that nature. I I just thought when I heard it, and I replayed it a couple of three times, and you know what, Gordon and Spence, I think it's again. I keep going back to the culmination of this year, the pressure, the expectations of greatness, the expectations again, You've been to two
Rose Bowls, couldn't quite pull it off. Now you're favor to win and be a part of the big big picture in college football, and then this comes down with injuries and home losses. I think it's just one of those moments where you just let loose. Yeah, he could not reel back. And Gordon's right, he could have had maybe a little better approach to the.
Apology, but it wasn't an apology. That wasn't Yes, it was a statement.
But you know, forty grand to your point, Spence is probably pretty he got up pretty easy with the five.
I wonder you know where that comes from.
But here's the thing about I mean, the whole He put this on top of the whole thing that the Utes had this image that they were arrogant yep, that they didn't really want to be in the Big twelve, and then you had let this get the best of you on top of that, and all that does is sort of stir loathing from the rest of the conference.
Who the hell do you think you are? Knock this arrogance off. I mean, look at your record, I mean knock it off.
And so he was sort of chastised from the fact competitively and administratively, as it turned out.
Maybe pride cometh before the fall. Gordon, huh, I'll keep going. He who is without sin let him cast the first stump.
Lands up. I've been very clear, like I'm not judging.
I get it man like, and I know what it's like to be emotional after a big loss, not like that, but exacerbated by five straight l's. And part of me wonders if he was trying to show Kyle like, I got your back, right, Like I I've thought about it all week. Why from the minute I heard it, I'm like, what are you doing?
Man like? What are you really accomplishing?
And I don't know that I've landed on his why as to and and you know Ryle's hopped on earlier.
You simply said emotion And maybe that's it. Maybe a pope, I mean, that's it, a sense of a crazy pop. But I think it goes back again the loss, the way it went down, the home crowd, the three straight losses at rice Ecles, and I think the expectations and the endes finally just boiled to the point where some people would either cry or yell or talking to a microphone and say, I don't think I'm really a fan of the Big twelve.
More or less, you know, we've got the stolen word.
That's truly I think what hooked a lot of people, But it's oh, by the way, did you know that there's a sports reference in the Old Testamental?
Wise one over there is it a hunting reference?
I think it's an exodus if Pharaoh served or Moses served in Pharaoh's court.
Not a big Old Testament, guy, lean more into the New Testament.
You know, older, you got any uh Baptist Baptist scripture you want to share?
All honorable men belong to the same tribe.
There we go, There we go. You know you guys are why just try to try to bring a little brevity to the show today.
You know, try to live like that. It's difficult to do. Older, you do that. Honorable men belong to the same tribe. We do. Need to catch a break, so we'll do that now.
I want to tell you about Gordon's favorite distillery, Clearwater Distilling, the only distillery in Utah County open on Sunday. Is Great Spirits, great tasting room, really really good people. They've got their limited release Wednesday Whiskey Batch number two. It's a mix of their bourbon and Rye whiskeys. Football season obviously obviously is here. They're the official provider of our spirits at our ESPN seven hundred tailgate. Check out our tailgate,
then schedule a tasting and a tour down there. More information can be found at Clearwaterdistilling dot com. They're located at five sixty four West seven hundred South in Pleasant Grove.
We'll do a little Utah jazz coming up next right here.
All right, it's one more big segment with Craig Bowler, Jack and Gordon Monson before we let Bowler go so we can get down to the arena and let Gordon go so he can, Uh.
What are you doing tonight, Gorg?
What's hang I'm gonna hang out with my wife, Lovely. I'm gonna watch some basketball.
You take a nap at all in the afternoon every once in a while.
I love me a good nap. But look, I'm gonna be an excellent old man.
I gotta tell you, guys, how fun it is for us to go for you.
Sure, yeah, yeah, it's great. It's like a reflection back on old times. But we haven't.
I don't think we've lost anything. We Only the listeners can tell us that. Fair enough, fair enough, All right, let's do a little jazz. But the big show, big hours, brought to you by Big old Tires. It's their falling the savings sale right now, one stop shop for automotive repair. Check them out online Big o'tires dot com to find a location near you. You know, I was thinking about this during the break because we were talking about Quinn and Craig to your point at the end, and as
I've always said, Covid changed the team. It just it just didd But I often think back to just how sad Quinn was at the end and how sad he was that he couldn't get this thing on track, and stick with me for a moment.
There's a method to the madness. The fact of the matter is this is gonna be a long year for the Jazz. I was down at the Sun's game the other day. They didn't have Durant and it didn't matter, like there are gonna be some bright moments and young players with good games. Philipowski's doing pretty so and you know they're not going to lose every game, but they're not gonna win much. And the fact of the matter
is they're not close to winning. And I don't think a Cooper flag or anything like it is going to fix the situation soon. It's probably two or three years of really tough times for Jazz fans, and I think one of the reasons Quinn was so sad is he recognized the opportunity they had. I don't know that they would have won a title, but they had a shot, and it's.
So hard to have a shot. We're learning that now.
So I think the heartbreak for Quinn because truly at the end it was sadness.
You and I Gordon got to know him. I would get messages from him. I've had conversations with him since then. I think that sadness is that he couldn't convince and the Cabs are off to a great start.
We'll see what they do.
I don't think he could get through to Donovan like this is a real chance to win something special as a young player, and I just don't think Donovan was mature enough to understand what Quinn was selling him. So the sadness has always kind of stood out to me because I think he realized they had a shot.
Yeah, a fleet.
He's excelling in a big way in Cleveland. But you know what, Spence, what happens to a lot of young players. They get people in their ear and they start to say, you know what you can do better? Maybe move on? You want to play in front of your mom in New York. That was the big you know talk. There's things that I saw that you can almost point to now that it was not going the right way. And
the Rudy Gobert relationship. What was so bizarre that night in Oklahoma City and when we got our results back in the morning that all of us were negative except for Donovan and Rudy had been had already tested positive. And I thought, how bizarre is that now they were locker mates close in proximity. And I remember that night before the game, I'd spoke with Donovan, you know, in the locker room, and I'm thinking, wow, if he's positive, then I'm going to have to be. But there was
no rhyme nor reas. And with COVID, I mean you could be six feet away or in the same room, but still, you know, it finds you and and I'm with you. I think Quinn did all he could, and he did a great job, by the way I said before, of keeping the team and the whole broadcast team and the rioters together that night. No one is left behind, which there was a fear or that we'd stay at the arena for two weeks, you know, in that in
that in that room. But after that and the bubble and the and the best run and the best record in the NBA that year, and then all of a sudden, it's just like bang, gone done and someone and Donovan says time to go, even though he's walked it back.
Spence, you know in that conversation, we all know what happened.
Yeah, yeah, you said we had we should have maybe taken another run or two not did that.
A couple of things. First of all, Spence, you said it perfectly not mature enough. He was not mature enough. If if Donovan were as mature as he is now back then, I think it would have worked.
That's my opinion.
And Bowler to your point about Quinn and how he felt that night in Oklahoma City, he was like, I don't want to. I don't know if there's other connotations to this, but he was like father flannagain.
Was he even let Andy Larson on the plane?
I thought he'd leave Andy behind, like we're all leaving Andy, look man, rent a car, good luck.
It was important to him and and I really at the end, and believe me, and I hope I'm not betraying any kind of trust here because I had long conversations with Quinn. He just didn't feel like the support was there that he needed to make it work. He said he could, he could go through a rebuild. He said, I can handle that, he said, in fact, he said, I'm good at that.
Well he better be in Atlanta.
Yeah, but it's he didn't feel like he had the underpinnings to make it work. And when I see what Donovan's doing now in Cleveland, and don't you every once in a while.
Don't wonder if maybe they could have.
Done something together longer because of what you said earlier, Spence.
Getting to that point is hard.
It is hard to get there, and the Jazz are suffering that right now. And maybe they'll maybe they'll blow a hole in the bottom of the boat and under straight they have to do a great example, Carl and John had multiple chances to win the West, but they just came up short.
You know, they they they played hard and then all of a sudden, the emotion pours down at Jerry Sloan, which you never thought you'd see in ninety seven to ninety eighty, and they were on the tail end of their careers. And see, that's the other part you now developed players at nineteen and twenty, and when the rookie contracts up, the theory is you've developed them as somebody else reaps the benefit.
And maybe this is the difference because I went back and compared the success or lack of success in the playoffs with stocked in them alone to.
Rudy and Donovan. Similarities. Yes, absolutely, it was absolutely similar.
And yet and maybe times have changed, like you said, maybe attitudes and players, the voices in their heads, the agents, whatever, Maybe they're less patient than those guys were back then. But I think that thing, and this is controversial because some people disagree with me, but Spence, I'm glad to hear that maybe you have that thought too, that they blew that thing.
Up too quick. Yeah, no, they did. I think they did.
I mean, look, I will say when I heard that Quinn had decided that it was time for him to go, my gut said, they're breaking it down right. And ultimately it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback. But there is a world I think that existed where Danny could have taken over and said to Donovan, you're under contract, okay, and you're a free agent in two years and in
two years. You can choose where you want to play, but you're playing for us for two years, or just give it one more year to see if you can kind of bring this thing together. Because almost all of these guys have go on to play well. Go Bear has been good since he left. Mike is now showing his age, but just this year it's looked bad. Royce O'Neill has played really well for Phoenix, GEORGEI. Yang has
been a solid role player like boy on Bogdanovitch. We forget Dennis Lindsay had some misses, but he did a masterful job.
And look, you need a little luck along the way, you just do.
And Dennis got some with Donovan late Lottery Go Bear late first round. He had some misses with Burke's and Trey Burke and Enis and all the things he should have.
He should have got Kawi. But ultimately, I say this all.
The time, I don't think most people fully understand how hard it is, certainly in Salt Lake City, to build an NBA team that can throw punches with the best teams in the league. In my opinion, Quinn's team was the second best iteration of the Jazz to Jerry's John and carl Us little minds can disagree with Booze and d Will and Memo in those teams, but I honestly believe the sadness in him was coming from a place where he realized what a unique chance they had to do.
So you had special players, and the fan base just embraced the Joe Ingles, right, Gion. Joe Joe was like Memo money man. You know, there's there's players that come along that just capture the imagination and the love, the love affair of the fan base, which is so important. And I think right now they're trying to find out who that particular player is. J C still has the love, right, you know, but obviously Aging still has a role off
the bench, as is John Collins. But you know Danny's gone young, and you know one of the you know you and you just said the magical word luck.
You have to have luck.
The Jazz found stocking him alone in middle first round selections, right, and now you find maybe Philipowski's got a little bit of that thirty second player taken slipped and the Jazz have this guy from duke six ' eleven, six ' ten can stretch the floor, hit the three and can rebound. That's not a bad piece to have right now. Not a bad piece.
You don't want it to be too good because you to improve your position for drafting. But there's one other component to this whole discussion, in my opinion, and see if you agree with me. I think there's ego. There was ego involved in the front office. Danny Ainge, his hands were tied. They didn't have financial flexibility with that team they had, that's true, and so he wanted to make an impact, and I think his ego came into it and said, I can't make an impact because my
hands are tied right now. So he offloaded those guys. But he didn't offload enough. They didn't lose enough, and so now we've dragged this thing out for the last two and a half years.
I guess the biggest point I think to look at in the future is, you know, he did make the move, so you go on, so what does he do with the picks and what do those picks actually turn out to be when you look back in jazz history and how those picks were used, whether to move another player and combine them or you know, sweeten a pot somewhere and make a deal with a you know, a sign and trade and you throw in a few you know, first rounders or whatever you have, because he's got a plethora.
I want to use that word today, like it klethor of talent that we don't know what it is, but they're there. They're just a pick. But what do they become? What did they become? And how long does that take? One thing I think that's so important to remember is every team's facing this is the nineteen year old or the eighteen year old soon to be nineteen year old who does the one and out and isn't ready to play basketball at the pro level. But yet they have
to develop them. And the Jazz take a lot of pride and development right in the G League and there's been players who've jumped, and obviously Gobert is one that excelled extremely high. But then you have to make sure that you keep them because I'm always I think if comes to mind development, all Star wants out big money and then the injury, you know that kind of sidelined him. And then you know, Donovan, you develop him and someone
says you're really good. You got to go to a big market, and you got to embrace the moment and get all those accolades and all those commercials that you can get. You know, it's just it's it's hard, and I don't know how Danny's gonna play it. I don't know how the jazz will play it. I think the city Spence is growing rapidly. Hockey Olympics coming back. I
get fatigued on hearing. Well, Utah is on a destination point, you know what it can be, and obviously winning helps that, but also the city is growing and people can do whatever the hell they want here, right, some people don't like that, by the way.
You know, all right, Bowler hitting the town. You look like you just came from a nightclub where you did a sat crooning.
The little comedy.
Uh.
Then of course I played the Trump and the Trump walk down at that point, Bowler, you make is true. It seems like jazz flute trump. Do you think the trompbone would be a fun instrument.
Yeah.
I had a buddy of mine that just ripped it and played it like it was like a really jazzy you know.
Get too far down this dress sexy?
All right.
One other thing I saw something today I had to run by you guys.
It was some betting service.
Not that I bet, I don't, but it said that I guess what coach has the greatest odds to be fired first?
Can't be Will and it's picked up his option for two five. I know, I don't get it. It's like, do you not understand what this is all about?
Here?
What's happening here? That ain't happening?
No, and he's He's one of the things they found that's real. And uh, ultimately I believe they've got the rat.
Guy coach and the team.
You know, the last time we were in a spot like this with the Jazz was ty Corbyn's last year, right, And I often said on air in our old show, and Dennis never liked when I said this. I said, the day Dennis Lindsay took the job was Tyrone Corbyn's last days. Now he let Tye coach out of his contract haus he had one more year.
But at the time they didn't use the same excuse me, they didn't use.
The same verbiage that this front office does.
But at the time they kind of did the same thing that Danny and Justin are doing now where they brought in some Vets. You know, you got the John Collins of the world. You got you know, the Jordan Clarkson's of the world. Back then it was Andrespidrin's. It was Marvin Williams at the end of his career, as
Richard Jefferson at the end of his career. And then they decided to lean in to see what they had with the young players who were Trey Burke didn't work Alec Burks still in the league, had a good career.
Uh.
Jeremy Evans, Uh. Every off season we'd be like, hey, he can jump forty two inches ye and won the slam dunk. Yeah, but get a jumper up, Like, thanks for the thanks for the vert update. Can can my man learn to dribble? Derek Favors worked out? Yes, it did, Ennis Canter excuse me, Ennis Freedom. Freedom ultimately didn't work out, but had some bride spots, right. Go Beart was a rookie,
popped All Star. Hayward third year popped, right. So it's kind of the same thing, right, So the question is who are the go Bearts and the Haywards and the Favors on this year's team. Because you've got the Vets with Collins and jac and but we're now trying to learn who these young players are going to be and when it's fully baked in a couple of years, are any of these young players going to be the next iteration of jazz basketball leading a competitive team?
And only time will tell you.
Would I bet let me guess what you would say to that Mark? And then obviously he's established. Yeah, yes, would you say Philipaskal?
Yeah?
I think Philipowski has a high, high ceiling. Now, look, Danny, he's listening. He could be laughing and maybe sees it a different way. And obviously he's won a championship as a player and a general manager. Kiante is still a work in progress. I think John College is having his best year in a long time.
Codey Walliams long, Yeah, John John's you know what's right? Crazy?
You know I do this every night, prep sheets and what have you, and you go, you know, he's he's an eight year pro and as he always played on a position sometimes Yeah, but I tell you the guy still has some hops. He can rebound, and he'll he'll play hard, as does Colin Sexton, who has a NonStop you know button. You know, here's a couple of guys that you have to wonder when they pop? Will they pop? Johnny jusse right, does he does he have a consistent three? Can he play d that you have to have to
play in this league? And Bryce sends a baw who has an NBA body? But also can he do more than what he did at Ohio State and that shoot the triple?
And can he defend?
Right, losing Taylor Hendricks, you're gonna lose about a year and a half of development with him.
Is he a score? Maybe not?
Could he defend He's long, yes, but we're not going to find out how he fits into this group until probably January or February.
Of twenty twenty six. Yeah, that's just the way it is. How about he's intriguing to me.
Kind of the he's a stout point guard, brunts and like, but again, when does he pop?
I mean, he's probably the most natural lead guard on the rock besides Patty you.
Know, you know Keyante all everyone has to remember was not a point guard and he's learning the position still in the year two. He's only what ten games into his second year in the NBA, so that takes development. But Collyer has been had the ball in his hand and as a true point guard, audition driving, and he's intriguing. I'm anxious to see how he comes off the injury and developed. So there's see this conversation just tells us
it takes time. And you said two to three years, and maybe that doesn't set well with Jazz fans, but you know they want a larger window. Danny has said this many times. They don't want just the three year The windows starting to starting to close in Denver, by the way, ten years in for the Joe, still at a high level. Injuries for Jamal Aaron Gordon. You know, we'll see what happens there. But the whole West is intriguing, aging great, great Hall of Fame players.
We gotta we gotta catch a quick break.
We've got a guest here, and then we've got to make space for Utah women's basketball.
So we'll end on this. MAV's in town tonight.
Yeah, Dallas, do you have an I I hate this man, So I pulled I pulled up the the the you know, the preview to.
Kind of prep for the show today.
Yeah, Kyrie Luca game time decisions, Yeah, I hate that.
Are they playing I hate that. You know what, I don't have any privy.
I get the same thing I'm waiting to hear from Dallas, and it bothers me. I do not want the Jazz to be a destination point for a hit pointer, a sore groin, or maybe a sore foot. See the fans, Look, the fans deserve better there. This is money, this is a business. They've lost three straight. Bind you and their mindset may not be all that, But Luca Clay Kyrie, and there's a couple of guys that they brought in last year in Gafford and Derek.
Excuse me, PJ.
Washington, who's on Derek Lively is really one of the up and coming bigs in the league in my opinion.
So would Jazz fans rather the Jazz have a better chance to win and not have those players play, or do they want to see the stars play?
I think if you asked a twelve year old fan, they want to see Luka Doncic battle the Utah Jazz, and they want to get a look at JC. They want to get a look at marketing, and they want to see the young bull run down the floor and be competitive.
I think that's what fans want.
They want to see the best against this young Jazz team and hopefully develop or pull off an upset. I hate to see teams or great players have to sit and take a day off. And the way that the league, I know, we got to go, Spence, but the way that the league has to they have to report to the league if they have a sore groin, that has to be reporting, and that can get them off the hook in case they warm up and they just can't go.
But there's only one way to end this segment. How's that? Being all biblical and everything, how about an amen? Amen, Gordo, I like that.
Amen.
On a Thursday, bring a little scriptorial references on the on the program today.
All right, but remember all huge Brown's fault, All honorable men, Spence, all belong to the same drive.
This is very true and it's very well put.
Gentlemen.
Always a pleasure. Have a great cit Gordon. Okay, we'll see you guys soon. Aaron falk Joints just coming up next. We'll see why he hasn't posted Gordon's latest piece, So keep it here on ESPN seven hundred.
Did Aaron ask for this? Yeah?
All right, that's what I thought, indeed, we've got to give away. Do we need to talk about coming up a little bit. We won't do that now because it would be in poor taste. I'll explain later. Aaron Falk, Saltiltate Tribune, Well played, sir, Happy Thursday.
Hey, happy Thursday, Spence. I got it. I gotta say really quick. Uh, one of the old the oldest I've ever felt in a sports world.
I thought.
I thought was watching Chipper Jones retire, someone that I grew up loving, and I'm watching this at a bar and it's his last game. I'm like, I feel something. But I'll say, listening to the commercial breaks and listening to Emma Smith on behalf of Depends dropped me to my need is now I feel a billion.
Oh man, I need you that today. Thank you, sir.
That combined with the bump man, you're coming in off the top, rub coming in hot man. I appreciate the time. All right, Aaron, Let's start with a very eventful Saturday night in Salt Lake City. Last Saturday is bringing me young rolled up to Saltake and went down to Provo with a win in their back pocket. They're now undefeated. You know what let's just get right to the good stuff.
The holding call has been hotly debated. I don't think it's something that can be summarized with one reductive statement, like black or white in a vacuum.
Yes, letter of the law.
That is a foul and b YU fan will simply latch onto that.
And that's not wrong. I want to be clear.
I'm not saying that it is, but it is a little bit more complex and nuanced. I thought Joel Klatt did a good job of equating it to a strike zone in baseball, where when the yump establishes what he's going to call that game, it kind of mandates you to adjust your swing to that strike zone. But what what was your takeaway from the holding call heard around the world that's Saturday night.
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm in that camp of you know, you look at you look at it, and you see, you know, you read the rule and you see, you know, once once a receiver is pass the point of being blocked and you see an arm extended like that, you put yourself in position to have that that flag thrown right like you know, Well, one day we can talk about the appearance of evil and the need to avoid it, right, But when you get into that situation, if if in fact, and I'm not smart enough nor
did I pay close enough attention to know truly how how many times or that that play happened and wasn't. But clearly Kyle whitting amfields that that is a situation that they were allowed to get away with, not just in this game, but you know, in sort of Big twelve play throughout the year. He said, there's there is a difference between pac full officiating and Big twelve officiating
in that regard. And to do that in a moment where you know the game is on the line, you're you're the largest crowd in stadium history is celebrating and you have to do it again, That's that is gutting. So I understand the frustration, and I understand the gloating on the other side. I mean, man, it is It's truly one of those things where it goes your way and you know you are we are a big believer in in backing the referees and it doesn't and we
hate them all. I mean, it's it's it is truly just dependent on your personal bias at this.
Point, Yeah, one hundred percent and that will color the judgment of fans, for sure. I try to exist in the space of being a little bit agnostic when it comes to doing the show so I can accurately do the job. And I like you, I get the frustration of the utes, and I get the elation of the cougars for sure.
But let's move over to what happened Aaron. After the game.
I was there, saw you and our guy ck up in the press box, and went down, watched the rest of the game on the sideline and went and said hello to Keladi and a Rod everybody after the game, offer my congratulations, and then kind of took the scene in dodging water bottles as I was right in front of the must a lot of water bottles being thrown, And as I'm making my way home walking across campus, my phone just blows up and all the messages were
did you hear what Mark Harlan just said? And I said, no, I'm walking home, And so somebody sent me the link to the social video and I watched it and I went, oh, no, he is going to be in so much trouble based off of what appears to be a pretty no nonsense guy and Brett Yormark, the commissioner of the Big Twelve, and I actually Aaron thought forty k and a public reprimand was a good outcome when you question the integrity of the league and you use term like they stole
it from us. I thought I'd wake up to a voice recording of Mark Harlan asking Brett, you or Mark to find him two more points. So it was not a great look for the ad who, in my experience, is a measured smart guy.
I wonder what your takeaways were.
Yeah, I mean I I was sitting in the you know, in the press box high above the field. Audio is pumping in all and so I'm not in that room. All of a sudden, you just hear the words I've been an athletic bread for twelve years, and my fingers took over and I'm just writing this quote down as fast as possible because I know what's coming is going
to be something extremely interesting, right. I think this was a stunner, And you know, you look around and there are just so many takes where it's like, I've never I have not seen an athletic record do this, you know, It's just it's so rare, and I think you're you're spot on to use those where it's stolen it those
are it's just inflammatory. And the thing that I'm still scratching my head about a little bit and wondering, you know what brett yor Mark really feels about all this is the is that line you know, we were happy to be in the Big twelve and tonight we're not. And and what whatever you want to say that we've we've heard for a decade how bad packed pub officiating was right and and now you know, if we want to talk about maybe maybe this is inconsistent Big twelve officiating.
But this is a to me, I'm I'm still scratching my head that this is a Big twelve problem in the eyes of Mark Harlan and and what that actually means. And I'm trying to unpack that. And I'm not sure I have my answer yet. But I can see that line in particular, doing a lot of public relations damage for the university. Uh and it spans nation, you know, at least in truck stop country, as it is a lot of a lot of public relations.
Damn sure. And it also does not help the narrative. And I don't live online, but I certainly am a human who does this for a living, so you have to stay plugged in to some extent. And I think it's very fair to say that several members of the Utah fan base were very how shall I say, confidence about year one of the Big Twelve, and probably with merit because this team was picked to win the conference
by Vegas and the media and others. But that brought a lot of pushback from other people in the conference about the narrative that you think you're too good for us, you think you should be in the Big Ten, but you're not, and this is a necessary home for Utah until the next shift happens. And then when Mark says something like that, I just think it furthers the narrative that is permeating throughout the Big Twelve that Utah thinks they're too good for that conference.
And you add to the fact they have one conference win. It's just you know, the Utah right now taking someone else in that direction.
What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean no doubt and and I guess to go back to it, and and you know, I think you could you could break this down in a in a level of conspiracy theory and and and we tried to reach out to UH to mister Harlan to get some some more information on what he meant here. You know,
I think maybe maybe you can get some more. But I mean, if it's a big twelve issue, is it refereeing consistency or is it a big twelve issue that a conference leading team is getting set up better to be to be better positioned for a college football playoff spot. I mean, I can see how some conspiracy theorists go down a very deep and scary rabbit hole. And that's that's where I'm really really like questioning what that means.
Yeah, that's a really good point, actually, really good angle to take, because I you just try to take him out his word and then give him the benefit of the doubt, because we certainly all deserve that. And I've had emotional moments in my life where I'd very much like a do over. I want to ask you one more thing about this, though, because I honestly, Aaron, from the minute I heard it Saturday night, I have just been thinking about his why why would you do that?
You didn't have to ads don't do that? Is it showing his head coach that he has his back. Is it really believing to your point that something doesn't smell right here?
Like if you're a smart guy.
Like if I guess the simplest explanation, emotional after a loss five straight l's heat of the moment, robbery game stuff from you know, the scale of simply emotional to all the way on the other side of maybe something's afoot here. Why do you think he decided to take that that approach?
Yeah, I mean, you know, and so I'll walk it back and be you know, more more measured now here. But I think you the most likely outcome in any in any situation is we are emotional beings. This guy was pissed off, right, and and that's the only reason that you see him walking onto the field in the run of play and drawing that penalty. This is why you you know, you see him, you know, sometime after having at least enough time to pause and and and maybe have somebody say don't do this, to still be
that fired up. I mean, he was clearly, clearly, clearly angry. I think that's the most likely you know, are we are we just sending a message or are we just venting that? This has been a very tough year and in this moment when you think you have a chance to you know, save your season a little bit, that everything just boils over and that that's probably the most
likely outcome. I don't know that it's as conspiracy conspiratorialism as maybe it could be, but nevertheless, like wow, like a few people could have stopped him, he could have stopped himself, and here we are.
Yeah yeah, and uh, you know, the news cycle will move on and people will hone in on something else. I do think in ten years there and this will be known as the Mark Carlin game. You know we we we often label these games with a Beck to Harlene, a fourth and eighteen, a Brandon Burton block, a Brett Ratliffe.
Crazy.
Get this in ten years has to be the Mark Carlin Knight, doesn't it?
Oh no, no doubt about it. I mean, and and that is you know, I'll say this, We can will break this down with a with a level of of of seriousness and scrutiny as we should right now. And it is absolutely the thing that becomes lore that that makes uh college football something that we that we care about and and focus on because there are moments like
this there are there are emotions like this there. You know, the stakes are this high in Mark Carland's mind even in a season like that, and that that's why ultimately we care, why fans care, why anybody's in that stadium.
What is your I don't know.
I was going to say, what's your favorite part of the off field dynamic of that week? But what are what are some of the things you're You're a local, you're a resident. You are an aggie, not a cougar
or a youth. So you're a bit agnostic in a way where I think you'd have a measured approach to the question, because the off field stuff, to me has always been so fascinating when it comes to Utah BYU football specifically and the week leading up and then the reaction afterwards, because you've got a BYU fan base that so badly wants the moral high ground all the time that after the game you're getting tweets about send me every video of a youth fan that said anything bad
to you, and we'll post it and we'll call them out. And then you've got like the other side of youth fans that want to call out the piousness and the judgmental, holier than that latitude of the BYU fans and we're all this really weird, you know, extended family that probably has a lot of dysfunction. And I do think at the end of the day there's respect and love between
the coaching staffs and the programs. But what are some of the elements about this week and this thing off the field that stand out most of you?
Oh, I mean, I think just that it does create those types of bonds you know, within and we can you know, debate how healthy it is from time to time.
But just the fact that you know, you you went, you went to the U. I'm sure you look across you know, you don't you don't have this bond because you shared chemistry cross with somebody, right like you don't have you don't have this bond just because of of that moment like this, uh, like the game itself and what that means is is so is so responsible for the like the love that so many people have for their college experience that I mean, I think it's it's
a just so it's incredibly cool how powerful that is. Now sometimes it's a bit scary, but I think, you know, just just to know that there's something like that has that kind of ability. Is is awesome. And then you know, I mean there there are so many like dumb and and and good quality rivalry things happen, and like credit credit to the latter day sayings, so like that, put the score up in the in the hymns on Sunday afterwards, and are and are bringing our bringing smack talk to
the pulpit in the name of the Lord. That is so funny. I'm sorry, it is, it is.
It's awesome. The whole thing is hilarious to me.
It's you know, and when you kind of remove the emotion and just more mostly observed the whole thing, it really is a fun week. And I thought it was a fun game. All right, let me move over here. So I did not know who Brandon Rose's mother was untel today, so shout out to I think it's Laurie Rose, Laura Lynn something like that, she said. I And I'm sure the folks up at the Utah Football facility are just thrilled about this today because she sent out a tweet that said prayers for Brandon please.
This is Brandon Rose's mother via social media.
He'll be having surgery today and Saturday night's game in the second quarter, just before halftime, he tore his Liz Frank ligament. They gave him heavy pain meds and a steel plated insul so he could continue playing. The doctor couldn't believe he was really even able to walk. This is extremely painful and your foot is totally unstable. Fortunately, with surgery, he'll make a full recovery and come back stronger than ever.
I'll be with him in Utah for a few days out bout.
We appreciate the calls, text messages and support now in the order of fairness. Earlier in the show, I received the message from a source who will remain unnamed, saying he did not get shot up, nor did he get any pain meds, nor has any athlete ever received pain medication opioids to return to the sport at the University of Utah. He received an anti inflammatory pill and he did not have a fracture. And I'll just say that
that's coming from somebody who would absolutely know. So what's your reaction to this That apparently it was a second quarter injury. They marched him out there, played in the second half. Maybe explains the anemic offensive performance in the second half, but obviously this is something that broke today air and give me your thoughts.
Yeah, well, I will say this like one thing that I always have to do in moments like this, and it's hard and it takes a little bit of time. It's like, I truly don't know if this is Brandon Resimm. It probably is, but I have no like other other than than someone saying that they are. That's the only like I followed that account because I have never like had an interaction with that before. So I'm trying, you know, we're I think we're all trying to figure things out
in real time. And like I said, very very likely that it is. Uh, you know, I don't have any any specific reason to doubt it at the moment, but like I always kind of come from a place of doubt, So I don't know. Part two, Uh, I am curious,
and I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that that you've got that from from a source, because I am curious exactly how extensive you know, a halftime evaluation is in that moment, Like and just to say that there's no fracture would mean in my mind that there was an X ray right, Like there was something something done to to to prove where we are, because I think the reality is, you know, you look at these guys and and you know, it is a sport that breeds warrior mindset, right,
and you're supposed to push through. Not only that, but you have a ton of adrenaline, you have a lot of peer pressure to go out and do it. So and and and probably a desire. I mean, Brandon Rose has been waiting a very long time to be a quarterback at that plays for the University of Utah, right and here he is in the middle of his moment playing well, and he's probably not incentivized to say, hey, you know what, I don't think I can go back out there because he doesn't want.
To lose his job.
He doesn't he doesn't want to lose that moment. So, you know, do I I think it's it's probably imperfect on a lot of levels. Do I think somebody was saying Brandon, I don't care, suck it up, go out there and do it. Maybe not as much as as it is just internalized by the entire setup of you know,
here I am, I have my moment. I cannot say take me out right, And so when he doesn't look If he goes through those checks and he's saying he's gonna he's gonna go and he doesn't look bad, then I think you have to be like, you know that that makes sense. It makes sense that that that happens
from time to time. The one that you know, I think, I feel like just kind of eye test wise, rising against Arizona State was one where we're like, maybe he says he can go, but I test here says this is not working.
Right.
That's that's more of a head scratcher to me than than maybe the Brandon Road situation. But again, I don't know all the ins and outs what happened in that medical check or not?
All right, buddy, before I say you loose, what was it like introducing the children to Gordon?
You know what?
They love them, They you know Gordon. Gordon brings a some some great historical knowledge and he doesn't take himself too seriously and he's down to help them out. Like that's that is the beautiful thing. I think a lot of people that have done these jobs for a long time and all of a sudden you get some eager, you know, twenty two year old who maybe you know know or think they know things that maybe they don't or whatever. It could it could reb you the wrong way.
Gordon is there to help out and it's awesome.
Gotta love it. I buddy, appreciate the time. Have a good weekend.
Okay, hey, you too.
Take care On Falk, editor of the sports section of the Salt Lake Tribune, and get him on Twitter at Aaron Falk is where you find him.
And he's got two a's in Aaron, So check that out.
Jazz MAVs tonight. It's the only game in the NBA. I do not know why. I'm sure there's a reason. I guess I could have done research to explain it to the listeners, as it is my job as the host to know these things.
You know what.
Just maybe we're just spotlighting the two top teams in the league.
At the moment.
That's not no good. Guess do you have any idea why Jazz MAVs is the only game in the NBA to know, no idea at all. So you didn't do the research either, I did not.
Okay.
By the way, typically the Drive at five is powered by lahm Ford. But we're about to say good night, so shout out to my friends at Larry H.
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Some person news.
You ready, I'm always ready.
I'm out. I'm done. I've had it. Well, it's it.
It was a good run.
Yeah, it was a good run. Eighteen years. Wow. Yeah, and uh, I'm done. I'm over it. You will no longer hear me doing this job starting tomorrow.
How long.
Well, I'm gonna talk to some people.
I'm gonna kick the tires, talk to some friends and family and you know, potentially reevaluate the situation over the weekend, and I might return.
On Wednesday of next week.
That sounds maybe, that sounds fun.
But for now, I'm done. I've had it.
Right, it's over sabbatical of some kind.
I haven't had a day off since July. That's the last time I took a day off.
Every day's a day off when you enjoy what you're doing.
Oh, this is a fake job, let's be clear. But you know, some time away, Rivalry week Reaction week.
It's a lot.
It's a lot, and uh yeah, I'm gonna go play a little golf man. I'm gonna go little sun. So you'll hear Porter and Tony Parks on the show tomorrow and then as of right now, it's Porter and Scott Mitchell on Tuesday. There we go, and we're working on Monday. But nothing set in stone. It was gonna be Scott. He's got some stuff going on. So before we make way for a little Utah women's basketball is the Utah
women are taking on Northwestern on the road. What comes our listeners way on a Porter Power Hour Friday show.
There you go on a Friday Spence, it'll be as you mentioned, Tony Parks and I always fun chat with my guy. So Tony Parks, Tony Jones will stop by, Richard Smithy Smith will stop by. So we'll do some hoops to start off the show, and then Scott Mitchell will join the program live from Boulder ahead of of course Colorado and Utah, So we'll cover all of our bases, talk some hoops, and then turn it over to some utes. Working on another college football guest for the afternoon as well.
But as you know, when it's Tony Parks and I we kind of go all over the map. No, Zach Mossy and Zach Eric Weddle wed Coffy's gonna hop onto.
Jaalen Johnson for our listeners that don't get the inside joke. Every time I take vacation, I check the show page to see what we're doing, and Porter books all the awesome football guests when I'm gone.
It's happened a time.
Yeah, but you know me well enough to know by now, if you give me an inch, I'm gonna take a mile.
I'm gonna hit you over there.
Oh you're gonna take a mile or so.
Yes, it's more of a bit.
It's fun.
Yeah, it is all good, all right. So I'm gonna take a little time off. Appreciate you guys listening. We got our numbers and they're good here in the afternoon, So you guys have tuned in, appreciated. So Porter is gonna have you taken care of coming up on a Friday show, Monday show, Tuesday show.
I'll be back on Wednesday.
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