FULL MON POD @SpenceChecketts on Utes/Cougs weekend loss, CFB/NFL chaos, Jazz latest + more

All right, what's going on?

Drivetime Monday afternoon, ten minutes past the hour of two o'clock.

It is cloudy and it is cold.

It is November in Salt Lake City, and as it is every single day, it's going to have you along for the ride. Spence check, it's beyond the Mike Porter Larsen behind the glass. Happy Monday to you. Hope you had a great weekend. It was a chaotic weekend in the world of college and pro football. That's one of the wildest weekends I've seen in football in quite some time.

We'll get to all the storylines, of course, both locally and nationally.

Both BYU and Utah on the football side of things, came back, Can had a chance at the end, but neither was able to get over the line to get it done. And now BYU needs a little help. Now they had everything in front of him, in front of them, and now they're going to need a little help if they want to go to Dallas for the Big twelve

Iowa State's not a bad team. It's a good team.

They come into Salt Lake City and ride off into the sunset with a thirty one to twenty eight win after a valiant comeback by Utah football with my guy the Ferrari shout out to Luke Patari under center, Where has that been? I know a lot of Youte fans kind of frustrated there, But we'll get to, you.

Know what kind of what happened over the weekend.

Then we'll kind of preview what's next coming up on Friday in Orlando, the happiest place on Earth. Spoiler alert, it's not. It's Central Florida. You've just been to Disney World. Utah at this point is a massive underdog. They're a nine point five point underdog that over unders forty seven point five. So, according to Vegas, Utah most likely to end the season with eight straight losses, something that has never happened. It would be the longest losing streak in

Kick.

That's going to be a cold one, of course, after Thanksgiving, and BYU needs to win and they need help namely either Iowa State or Arizona State to get the l scenes as the kids would say down in Tempe. As Arizona State gets that win twenty eight to twenty three. And BYU has now lost two straight football games after starting the season off at nine to zero. So we'll do a lot of college football on the show today,

I'll be on TV with Dave Fox tonight.

Two pelotons, two Emmy's at ten thirty five on KMYU.

We call that five questions was Spence.

So we are very very busy on the show today, pretty football centric, but we will of course talk and basketball. The Utah Jazz beat the New York Knicks. The Knicks were the second best offense in Pro basketball prior to the game Matt and Ay on Saturday, Walker Kessler rolls back into the lineup after missing six games and played really, really well one twenty one, one oh six. That was potentially the best game I've seen them play all year long.

This is the final time we will be able to do it.

Because Coach Wit addressed the media earlier today, he was asked about his future. He was asked about the future of Camra, Rising said he expects cam to make a decision in a week to ten days about potentially coming back for an eighth year to play for the Utes. So I'll bring that to you guys coming up on this Monday at three thirty. And then Richard Smith and doctor Chris Hill, both of them live in Studios studio

I'd offended for an entire hour.

We'll do some jazz, we'll do some utes, We'll just have fun with Smitty and doctor Hill, and then we'll launch it unto the five o'clock hour of the program today. So Steve Young, Tom Haberstrow, let's hear from Coach Wit, Richard Smith, Doctor Chris Hill, me Spence check it to all of you the great listeners.

Happy Monday. Hope you had a great weekend off to a good start to your work. Week.

Happy Thanksgiving week to you. Hopefully you have some time off. And that young man, his name is Porter Larson on a Monday afternoon, all right, what up? Unleash the ferrari our guy actually showed something and deja vu. Man, they're gonna play Loop coming up on Friday. It's their fifth quarterback.

It's just.

It's wild. It really is seven straight ls. I do think Saturday night was fun. If you can just kind of hone in on one game in a vacuum, it was a great college football game.

I'm just.

I'm stunned that we're sitting here with a football team that's lost seven straight.

Yeah.

Well it is kind of encapsulates Utah season, right the fact that they're down to Luke Patari and now Dalan Engleman for their backup against UCF. And if they were to lose one of those or both of those guys, Kyle said he doesn't really know what they would what they would do probably Wildcat with mcgui Bernard or someone there.

Not gonna lie.

When I was watching my guy for the Ferrari lead Utah on a comeback that nearly got it done, it made me miss the long hair because I'm short.

Now that you buzzed it hair short.

I didn't buzz it well, but I had it down. Didn't go Britney spears. I had it down past the shoulders. And you know when I think I told you this couple weeks ago, my friends and I did this thing on our text threat to send the most COVID pick possible.

Huh.

And you remember when I had very long haired beard.

I had the hair past the shoulder and a beard that was just way too long. You could taste your dinner from the night before. That was mine. And it's not a good look.

It's I don't mind it, but hey, I do want to go back to something. You you you kind of glanced past it very quickly. Your performance at the Steve Young Golf tournament. You got you went, You went real quick by by that certain topic.

We'll get to that later. Let me just say this, Okay, it was a scramble. It was a four man scramble. And maybe I'll just give Steve some credit. Now, I can't do that because I throw the guys under the bus. He put my brother and I with potentially the two worst golfers in the entire group. And my bro, my brother Nate, is a busy guy, doesn't play a lot of golf.

I'll just tell you this. We had four birdies. I had three of them.

Oh, so you didn't play it terrible. I wasn't great and our group wasn't great either. But I'll go into more detail later because we have housekeeping to do.

Sound good.

Let's say Steve Young will be our first guest today. But before we get to Steve, courtesy of our friends at Standard Restaurant Supply your tailgate headquarters check them out online or their convenient location in downtown Salt Lake City.

It's time now for your opening tip.

Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check. It's on Utah's number one sports talk. Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurant Supply, your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurant Supply, thirty five hundred south West Temple.

All right, So, as we've already discussed a absolute chaotic week of college and pro football, quite frankly, where a lot of teams, both in the Big Twelve and throughout the course of college football.

Had everything in front of them.

I don't love the term like control your own destiny, Like how many times have you heard that over the past twenty four hours.

But certainly Brigham Young in.

Colorado, which was the game that I was kind of sneaky cheering for. I just think that would be super entertaining to see a local team go up against Dion on such a big stage. Both BYU and Colorado had everything to play, play for and potentially, as they say, control their own destiny, and both just fell flat on their face. Is it possible that Kansas is the best team in the Big Twelve right now?

Is anybody good? Is anybody bad?

Nothing makes sense with this flukey conference, man, this hokey conference. Colorado goes to Kansas and they essentially get their doors blown off. They were down big, I think it was seventeen zero. They did mount a comeback because they started force feeding Travis Hunter, who was so insanely good. That kid should and probably will win the Heisman. But Kansas takes that game thirty seven to twenty one, and Colorado

Was one of them.

So BYU goes down to Tempe and by the way, let me just say this. My sincere win this holiday season for all of my listeners is that you find something that you're as passionate about as BYU fans are as passionate about calling out the behavior of other fan bases, win or lose man.

That's all.

We get videos over the course of like seventy two hours like oh look at this guy.

Can you believe what this fan did?

Bad?

Look for the ASU security probably should have been a little bit more on top of it. And I do want to give the BYU coaches and players a lot of credit for not cole cock in one of those little frat boys that ran up on them and tried

Billed on people.

I mean, this fan base gets beer porn on them wherever they're at, which I always find a little bit odd, like that is the go to how they were wasted their porn.

Beer on us? Really, like are you sure?

But anyway, I thought the players and coaches showed tremendous restraint and ultimately you can get mad about the final play all you want. Should it have been intentional grounding on Sam Levitt? By the way, Dallan Levitt released a video on social that appears to show his feelings for the BYU fan base, not coaches and players. And I always talk about the difference between the two on this show, and there is a mighty difference. But Sam Levitt, and

And I actually thought they.

Were going to do it again because we've seen it from them so many times. But it does give credence to the people who were a little bit skeptical about annointy in BYU as they started their season off and continue to rack up wins, and there were a lot of fortunate moments, but ultimately I do think this gives some credence to the people that were a little bit skeptical. Now that BYU has lost two straight games. I do think the game they're going to look back on is

You know.

Cam Scataboo, as we know, is a really good back. He goes for one forty seven and three touchdowns. And now BYU has to beat Houston coming up on Saturday in Provo, and they have to have either ASU or Iowa stayed to lose. Iowa States at home against k States, and ASU is on the road to finish the season with a rival with Arizona. So we'll see how it goes.

So disappointing a lot of positive things in that game. Exceptionally pleased with the way the special teams played. It was the best special teams performance of the season. Made some impact plays. Recovering the muffed punt return from the opponent, set the offense up on the seventeen yard line I believe it was, and we blocked a punt for a touchdown, and so some real impact plays that occurred specialties wise. It was good to see because we had not done

Uh will be the starter of this week.

Isaac will not be available and so Uh, you know, for a guy that started the season as the fifth string guy and really didn't have a whole lot of of a chance to play, just continued to keep himself ready every single week in case.

And uh last week was the week that.

That he got his opportunity and and really did some good things. Came in and and uh really uh you know, provided the spark for us, and so that was that was good to see Luke uh do that. And again he'll get the opportunity this week to be the starter. Uh some other performances, Dandri and Zipper came in and did a nice job. We uh you know, missing a couple three or four two or three receivers and so he uh had his opportunity and uh made the most of it. Had four catches. Uh big catch at the

Uh.

Keith Olsen Uh our right guard again where I said after the Prescott's were down to our fifth, fifth right guard or fifth guard overall. And he came in and really played well. First opportunity to play as a ute and did some good things. So a lot of positives in the game, but again we weren't able to get the win. And now we got to Central Florida on the road Friday, so a little bit of a short week. So today we'll be back on the field and practicing as if it was a Tuesday and proceed through our

Yeah, it's a two part two party.

Wow.

Uh.

It would seem that the old pack called schools not just Utah I have had a difficult time adjusting to the Big Pole Conference. Do you have any thoughts as to why this is also and real in this question? Any thoughts about completing your twenty first year.

With the university? You, uh, okay, most of my twentieth year. Are you talking about next year?

Yeah?

Next year?

Okay, uh okay. Let's see first part par Pack twelve. Well, Colorado's having no problem adjusting as there's no State isn't either They're they're both uh seem to be faring very well.

In fact, I believe.

There are two of the four teams that still have uh possibilities to play in the championship game if I if.

I got that right, Uh.

Okay, Uh, then there's us who obviously is are have our own struggles. Who am I missing?

Who else?

Arizona Arizona is pretty much where we are. I guess in the in the in the uh for the year and so don't have a good answer for it. Uh football cyclical in in a lot of ways, and and uh you just got to do the best you can. But but I know that, like I said, those two Colorado and Arizona State are seemingly making a very strong transition.

Uh.

Second part my twenty first year, I'll I uh will you know obviously evaluate after the season's over see what see what the situation is. But my decision we made on what's best for the program, that what's best for me. So it'll be completely determined on how I feel, uh this program is best served going forward. And uh so yeah, that's where that is kay.

I'll kind of piggybacking off of that decision. You know, you have an offensive coordinator higher that you have to make you a transfer classt. I'm sure you're thinking about will you make that decision after all of those moves are done?

Can't tell you for sure.

You know, it's just uh, like I said, after the final game's finished Friday, you know, four days from now, five days from now, UH sit down and and uh

As far as hiring and recruiting and that type of thing.

Do you have in the quarterback situation, you will uh how much of my priority is that you get a start a literal quarterback.

On a ton?

Yeah, well, we gotta we gotta solve our quarterback problems. I can tell you that, and that that has been you know a uh difficult thing this year, and we're now on our fifth QB and uh we got one left after that. We have six to twelve in the program. So so Dallan Ingerman, we'll be backing up uh Luke Matari in this game. And uh that's all she wrote after those two. Uh, I don't have a good answer,

Can give PK.

Well, I be right.

For spootball, Yes, we think that is gonna be the case.

Uh there's still a few more evaluations that need to take place, but but it's looking like uh spring ball is in play.

Yeah.

And then the transfers, obviously they've already been through the recruiting process.

I'm wondering where do they place this priority as far as inn al.

Uh incoming portal transfers for us. UH.

Top well, the top priority is is uh being able to uh retain your own roster and and the you know, the players on your roster that are particularly.

The key guys.

And then uh you'll also have uh key roles that need to be filled uh through the portal via the portal, and so that will be uh right there at the at the top of the list. And so we've already begun the process of of having conversations with our own players and making sure that we got uh, you know, everything in order there and uh then we move on to the next phase, which is which is the portal. And then of course you're incoming freshmen but will be uh involved in that as well. But portal will be

Uh.

Last year you said was the worst for injuries, where a part of it, uh this year worse?

And is there anything that can be done to avoid.

Somebody in that?

Well, UH, that's a good question. Which one is worse is they're both both been uh challenging. Uh we did make a lot of adjustments in our m fall camp and uh a ramp up to the season, which did pay dividends. We had, like I said, way back when, seventy percent fewer soft tissue injuries. But uh, the injuries that we're incurring now, I don't know. I don't know if you can do anything about that through train and

And then not nily got on a specific game, But how soon is it for how important is it for you to make a decision as soon as possible for recruits and players?

Uh?

Well, with the coach of waiting in place, we all we already have that discussion with recruits that when that time comes, here's what the plan is. And and so it's not like, uh, you know, the recruits and our own guys don't know what the succession plan is. And so that that takes some of the edge off it.

So many coaches, I mean Nick Saban, Virginias men's basketball coach recently, they've all sort of not been driven out of the game, but it played a factor. Nil played a factor, and their decision, you know, the game wasn't what it was for them, you know twenty years some ago whenever they became head coach.

Does that impact.

Your decision at all?

The way the game's changed and evolved.

I think everything reacts that decision. And uh, in il is certainly the biggest game changer of them all with the portal, they're kind of linked together in a way, and and players just the challenge of so much turnover in your roster and and uh, the you know you're playing for the love of the game now is that's kind of a thing of the past. I mean, there are obviously there's players that love football and and would

Anyway, where am I going to play?

It's you know, who's got the the best financial opportunity, and I guess you you know, you can't blame them. And this is life changing money for a lot of these guys that their families, uh and everybody will benefit from. And so even you know it's here to stay. If you don't like it, get out because it's not gonna change. It's so adapt or go a different directions.

I guess.

Cam was, you know, on the sideline for the first time in.

A while in a boot.

You know what, I guess have you picked up on in terms of his decision and how early or soon do you expect him to make a decision on his future?

You know, I talked to Cam after the game Saturday, and we're gonna visit this week and and catch up and and uh touch on that as well.

You know what what his plans are.

And we Uh, I have no inside scoop or anything right now as to what he's thinking. He's just, you know, haven't I just try to give him some space and let him sort things out and decide, uh which direction he wants to go, and so have a better answer after this week.

Uh.

But again that's on time Cam's timeline, and obviously we've got to you know, at some point, uh, you know'll make our own decisions on what what's gonna happen if we if they're still in decisiveness. But but I think that should be cleared up, uh in the next week to ten days.

Yeah.

Has it heard when he was taken to the ground or was here on the ground when he.

Was I think it was the the rollover, yeah, I think.

But he was already down on the ground and the player.

You're talking to the wrong guy about referees and penalties and what's going on there.

Uh.

I just don't.

I I don't even wanna get into it. But uh no, the initial tackle was not what uh caused. It was the the finish of the tackle or what do you wanna whatever, however you wanna turn it, and uh, yeah, that's.

What it was.

So Biggie back him up.

Of Cam's future, there's are there are a couple other guys who have been out for the season with injuries, mainly Candid Dons and.

Leimani to Mooney, have.

You heard anything from the two of them recording their future?

Yeah, they both would like to come back.

Uh as of our recent most recent conversations of that again is just like everything is subject to change. But uh, Levanni has been rehabbing and and uh doing very well and and if he decides to come back, he'll be ready to roll in January with off season conditioning and and jump right into it.

Uh.

Cannon's a different story. He was very significant injury and and uh uh doctors you know, I've heard uh some opinions that uh maybe all the way up until fall camp before he'd be ready to try, and maybe no, not even quite at the beginning of fall camps. So that's a lot more extensive and a lot more to it than Levannie, but they both have indicated that they would love to come back to for another year, at least as of our last conversation, which has been been a while with those two guys.

Following up on sort of the the change in in college of football, it seems like you have a lot of buying still on the defensive side of the ball, and that's probably in credit to Morgan skying that staff and the personable you know, personalities. How much more important is it for your culture to the way you build your culture to come from coaches rather than players just given them kind of the the way that the players have.

That pretty leave.

Yeah, we do have good, uh culture in buying on deep, but I feel like we have it on all as well.

I don't think there's a a division there.

I think that, uh, we we're in pretty good shape overall in that regard. But the coaches, you know, it's constant teaching, just indoctrinating new guys to our culture and how we do things, and and more so than before, cause like I said, the numbers are what they are. You don't have eighty percent of your team returning teaching twenty percent. You got just over half of your team returning teaching just under half of the of the new guys, and so, uh, coaches need.

To jump in and be a big part of that.

And uh it's more so uh than ever and uh, I'm sure it'll continue to be.

Exactly that way. That's how it is, Kyle.

The beginning of the season, you said you had more energy than you think you might have had at any point.

In your career.

The way the season has gone, where do you kind of gauge where your energy's at looking forward? And and kind of in the belief of your energy, do you feel like if you were to come back next year that you would still have a chance to maybe go out on top or or go out on a winning season.

Yeah, you know, like I said, Uh, it's what's best for the program will be dictated, well, my s my decision will be dictator based on and uh uh you know, to time it just right so you go out at just the right time. I mean that they're very very small percentage of of people we are ever able to do that. And so again I'm not I'm not saying, well, this was a bad year, so for me, I gotta come back and have a better year.

I mean everyone wants to have a.

Better year and next year, regardless of who the coach is and and uh, like I said, it's just a a an evaluation process from me and my family to decide, uh, you know what's best and and uh again, I just continue to emphasise put the program first, and whatever the program, you know what, what puts the program in the best situation, that's the decision I'll make. As far as energy, I feel great. I mean I don't have any That's all

Could you always value uh those extra practices?

Yeah?

For a bowl?

Again, how much is therespeking for the other guys?

Yeah, it's a it's a downer, uh, particularly for the younger guys, but not as much as before cause we'll have half a new team next year and so they won't be here anyway to benefit from those practices. So it's nowhere near as uh impactful or beneficial as it

Did you say that? Was it?

Dang?

Dang? Okay, all right, guys, thank you.

Richard Smith and doctor Chris Hill live in studio, former athletic director at the University of Utah. So we'll do a little jazz basketball coming up at about four o'clock.

From right now.

Now, keep in mind tonight is the Craig Smith Coaches Show, and then after you hear from Ryles and Craig, we will send you over to Monday Night Football, which should be a good one. It's the hardball bull So stay tuned for that. We are your home of the NFL in this conference, or excuse me, in this market.

We are efforting. Steve Young coming up here in just a little bit.

We're gonna bring in Tom Haberstrow as well to do a little NBA.

The Utah Jazz got a good win.

They're playing a little bit better offensively, they've been a lot better. We're gonna bring in Tom to kind of unpack some reasons as to why the Jazz played the Spurs again tomorrow. Am I the only one that's like, how many times did the Jazz played the Spurs? Seems like every time they have a game, it's against the Spur. But the NBA Cup has thrown a little bit of a ranch in those plans. So Jazz got a good win against the Knicks on Saturday here in Salt Lake.

How are you you two?

Spence great to have you last week. And your brother Nate and Roan is a r h O. And you got to get that out there because he's built a business that's amazing. It's I don't wear the suits all stretch so for church that's all I wear. I don't wear anything else. Never again will I wear anything other than stretch suits. Man, I'm not missing around.

I'm with you.

I'm currently wearing round. I wear it every single day. And I'm certainly proud of my little brother man. He's he's certainly built a great company. Unfortunately, Steve, he doesn't have a lot of time to play golf, as you saw from the scorecard.

Yeah, and that's okay, none of us do so fine. It's fun. Yeah, it's good to be together. Good Danny Ings came down and I love you know. Danny was the one that I watched when I was a freshman, just killing it at BYU and gave me the idea that you could be great at something. And I remember

And I remember playing basketball on lacrosse against your little brother. I hadn't seen Jimmy in a long time. So it was just great to be with everybody. And I can't thank you enough for having us out, Steve.

I appreciate it.

By the way, Jimbo, Jimbo played lacrosse. He was he loved player defense, a long stick, and I go, Jimbo, what if lacrosse it looks like to me? You just hack at people, Just take the stick and just wrap. What kind of game is this?

Man?

It was fun to watch that.

That was great.

Yeah, most defensive players that's all they do is hacket people.

You would have been a.

Great lacrosse player, Hey, Spence's like anyone in defense on look, defense is all about just leon want to screw you up saving football, you know, I mean, how can you play defensive football? What's my job? Just to screw everything up? I just want to screw up. I just want to I want to mess everything up. Like what kind of world is that to live in? I don't understand it.

Yeah, no, I hear you, Steve.

So I want to start with just a Macro overview question about the season, bringing me young his hat after Vegas set the over under at four and a half and the media picked them to essentially finish last. And yes they've lost too straight, but if they win on Saturday, that's a ten win season, which is nothing to shake your head at at all. What do you most attribute what most people believe is a very surprising season from BYU football this year?

Number One, I think Jay Hills built a defense, especially the first three quarters of the season, and all of us are wondering kind of here at the end, what's gone you know, not gone wrong, because, like you said, the expectations, but we just have to let's deal with the Big twelve championship every year and let's just be that right. And so if we say to ourselves, how

No, I get the idea, And I actually wanted to follow up there because it's different when you are not expected to do much of anything and you just catch everybody off guard. But ultimately they were at nine to zero with everything in front of them, the old cliche

It's human nature when you you know, as I said, we need to start every season with we're going to go to the Big twelve championship and that is it's make or break, and we're going to recruit that way. We're gonna play that way, we're gonna call we're gonna call defensive offense that way, and that's where we have to live and we have to have that expectation, the idea that we thought we'd be four than hour. They're like,

That one of the best to ever do with Steve Young is our guest. On a Monday, Stevie referenced the improved play of Jake and I want to dig into it because I love talking to quarterbacks about other quarterbacks. And last year zero to four as a starter and just way too many mistakes, and unfortunately that interception down the stretch against ASU was costly. But he's been so much better than he was a year ago, and I think so much better than most.

People thought he could be.

Probably people even down there, what do you attribute most his overall improvement to and how good can he be moving forward next season?

One of his best qualities is I called him a swashbuckler. You know, it's like the I'm not sure what that actually means, but in the image of my mind is somebody who gets back and it's going to at the ball's coming out, and it's going to be aggressive and and so I like that about him. But the problem

So I want to ask you a question about Killotti.

When Klotti was up here as the decordinator, we did a coach the show every week, and I you know, he became, you know, a real fan, not just of him as a football coach, but of him as a person. I'm not sure how you can not be a fan

Kilanie's a great He's an inspiration. You want to play for him, you want to win for He'll stand there, He'll take it, you know, he's accountable. He he he, he's willing to risk it for you, like he makes you feel like like you know, he's got my back and and no matter what happens. And and I love that about him. And he's you know, he's trying to kind of channel de Vell Edwards in his in his heart and he talks about it a lot. And I

Steve, before I said you lose, I would be remiss if I didn't take this opportunity to ask you about your I don't think i've ever heard you speak on this, your opinion on what college football has become and what do you think it will eventually become when the dust actually finally settles and there's no more chaotic alignment. I mean, you know, obviously nil transfer portal.

I am for these players getting paid.

I mean, ultimately, they have always been the product and a business was built on their backs and they didn't get a piece of it. So I'm fine with it. But a lot of people aren't necessarily down now. It hasn't affected ratings, it hasn't affected attendance. But what's the Steve Young take on the average angel landscape of college football and what do you think comes next?

Well, look, equity value in sports is just growing exponentially. It's nuts. The NFL equity values in that's the value of the of the of the team, like if they had if they have stock. Is like, this is the value of the team for the San Francisco forty nine ers. Let's say in two thousand, it was three hundred million dollars, four hundred million dollars. In twenty twenty four, it might

Now?

You're asking eighteen year olds, sixteen year olds as they pay, try to pay kids that are still in high school and go around like signing deals and you know, card deals, and you know, so you got a kid who's a sophomore, who's a highly recruited kid, and now he's you know, he's collecting one hundred thousand dollars a year on hundred fifty thousand dollars as a fifteen year old, and the

Well, Steve, thanks so much for the time and now busy you are and it was a pleasure seeing you last week. I really appreciate the invite, so have a great Thanksgiving.

You know.

All the blessings and love to you and your family, and you're welcome to come on the show any time.

Steve, I'll tell you that.

Spets you know. It's like you don't have me a reoffense, so I got to let it all out once. I apologize for that. You can tell it's a therapy session for me because my wife doesn't care, my kids don't care. I only have one place to tell it. So I got to tell you everything I feel. Now you have it, and good luck to you.

Thank you.

My friend there he is the great Steve Young, one of the best to ever do it, both in college and pro football. You can find more information about his charity at Forever Young dot org. That's who we were kind of supporting last week at his charity golf tournament in Scottsdale. We got Richard Smith and doctor Chrisill live in studio coming up during the four o'clock hour of the program tonight, so that'll be fun. Special Thanks to

How are we doing doing great?

Man?

I'm good. I'm good. So we'll do a little jazz here.

We're not gonna do We're not gonna do a ton of jazz because I think we all kind of know what time it is, we all kind of know what the deal is. But I'll say this, over the past seven or eight games, at least offensively, they don't guard anybody, they just don't.

But offensively they've been a lot better.

And I thought that went over the Knicks on Saturday here in Salt Lake was probably the best game I've seen him play all year long. But what are your thoughts on and if you have anything specific about the past seven or eight games, Why is the offense look so much better?

To think, Well, first of all, marketing helps.

That guy is really good, and.

Of course really good against the Knicks too. But I think another thing that you have to really pay attention to is the shot selection is very modern NBA. We've got a head coach and Will Hardy, who is as astute as it is when it comes to what is the best way to win in today's NBA. And what I mean by that is the Utah Jazz are the leaders in one category offensively that probably is a little under the radar, but I just wrote about this at Yahoo Sports. There are these things that I'll coin as

The mid range game is dead, but it is the.

Smart way to play, just in the same way that in baseball the smart way to play is to try to hit it over the fence and get walks, and it might not be appealing from a product standpoint, it is what the math tells us to do, and what the math tells NBA teams to do is what the Boston Celtics did last season is bomb away from three and attack the rim and go for rim attacks.

And the Jazz lead the.

League in most games in which they don't score from the mid range. And normally might say that's a bad thing. Well know, the mid range game is kind of a dead zone. You don't get fouled, it's a low percentage shot, and there's only a few players that it makes sense to be living in the mid range, whether it's Chris Paul or jamar Derozen Jazz continually do this, and even you know, in Saturday's game against the Knicks, they scored one hundred and twenty one points and only one basket

But this is kind of by.

Design, is that they have made the team buy into this, you know, threes and rim shots, you know, attacking the basket and not worrying so much about the mid range, try to get to the free throw line, try to take threes, and so far, I think that shot profile is really helping them slim the talent gap. And you saw it on Saturday night, just how how good they look when the three ball is falling. But it's not

So do you think the league will look?

Because I read your piece and that's kind of why I asked you the question to lead you into that answer so you could explain it to our listeners, because you unpacked it better than I could. But the fact of the matter is, you know, you and I will watch NBA basketball, but a lot of people aren't. The ratings are suffering. I don't know if it's the product. I continue to believe until stars show up every single night, you know, unless we got to say it, unless they're hurt, I know.

But you can't argue with the numbers.

And yes, they can throw their P and L statement at me and say where's the problem?

I say, Okay, I get it.

But do you think the decline in NBA ratings is as because nobody wants to just watch a team, you know, shoot sixty plus threes. Nobody wants to, you know, watch a three point shooting shooting contest unless it's during All Star weekend, And as numbers tell us, people don't really like to watch that either. Does the league have a problem with this style of play that you outline in your piece.

Do you think they look to do something about it.

I think they're always looking to do something about it. I mean, this is this is the same league office.

That introduced the in season.

Tournament, the play in Tournament, as well as the elam Ending and the All Star, the NBA Draft for the All Star. They're trying to figure out ways to augment or gimmick or gamify the season. And I don't think that they're you know, the shot selection is off the table in terms of how do we adjustice to make it more appealing for the audiences. And I think, you know, Nick Right, the kind of the reason why I did

That was one of his proposals.

And I think it gets at something that I think we do need to consider is should we make the mid range alive again and make more shot diversity where it doesn't feel like it's just threes and rim attacks every every time down the floor. My suggestion is this two three four system where you shorten the three point line to about fifteen feet to bring back the mid range, and then you extend the current three point line to a four point line at about thirty five or forty feet.

Get rid of that advantage and you won't see as.

Many three There's another idea that I've heard is capping the number of three pointers that you make or take sorry to about twenty per quarter, So basically you have like or sorry, twenty per game, so you have basically twenty three pointers to play around with, and then after

It was wrestling, it was.

A different sport. It was not the same thing as what we're seeing today, and in a bad way. So I'm not saying that everything was perfect in nineteen ninety five.

It wasn't.

But the idea of there's too many threes and it might be repelling some people from watching the sport. I understand that viewpoint, but I don't think that making dunks worth three points is the answer. I think it'll make more injuries because of you know, it's a violent sport already, but making it a dunk worth three points would only increase the mid air collisions and you'll see chet Homegrins of the world land horribly and be out because of a broken hip. I think that would be more commonplace

What do you most attribute the lack of solid ratings to, tom Maybe it's just this, Maybe it's just this, And look historically speaking, and it's been a number of years since pro basketball was even within a ear shot of Pro football. On this time of year, most everybody that are sports fans are you know, they're watching football, college and pro. Sunday Night football is the highest rated television

Well, I think large majority of that slide is due to the absence of stars.

And you hit on it in the beginning, and I'll just give you this stat. Games missed by Stars is of fifty two percent compared to last year.

Fifty two percent.

Through fifteen games of the season, we've had one hundred and fifty two injuries. And last year at this point there was one hundred games lost due to injury. So last year we had one hundred games lost due to injury for Stars, and now we're looking at one hundred and fifty two over that same time period. So what we're seeing is, you know, a nice return of stars. De Jon se Murray, Kevin Durant, Bradley Beale, Chrisafsperzingis. These guys are coming back, but a lot of players are not.

So you know, it's not good for business.

To have a Thursday night game without any stars or have you know the Clippers playing the Sixers in the opening week of the season and only Paul George is playing. You got no Joelle Embiid, no Tyrese Maxi, no Paul George, no Kawhi Leonard. And that's not good for the sport, not just for that night, but also the message it sends to potential viewers is, oh, I'm going to watch this Sixers Clippers game. Wait a minute, those guys aren't playing, ah man, Like this is just another game where the

Well said, good stuff.

Let me go back to the Jazz for a moment and uh just kind of kick the tires with you on some potential storylines and topics, you know, this year, and they took a big step back with their developmental program after Taylor broke his leg. Poor kid, because he came back in great shape and he's looking pretty good. Marketing cannot be traded. Maybe all I need to say to real NBA fans about who the jazz are is John Collins might have been. They might be their best player,

Are they going to start winning a little?

Because Larry's that good and when they're hitting shots like they were, they have the ability to win some games, which I very much do not want them to do. I've been on that page for two years, as you know, Tom, So I'm bring on the losing like when they started losing big, you know, like where it seemed to be pretty obvious that they were leaning into this development, they started losing, and I felt better about their direction that

It's just the perverse incentive structure of the NBA, right, is that we're rooting. If you're a Jazz fan, you're conflicted. You're rooting for them to lose because that might give them the best chance at a star in that market. It might be the best route, the best path to

You look at.

Albern Shanghun, Jalen Green, Amen Thompson, Reed, Shepherds glued to the bench because there's just so many good young players on that team. Tari Easton's been fantastic for them. They made one signing right there with Fred Van Vliet, and he's kind of set the tone for the locker room, and that is a model for the Utah Jazz is like building. It's going to take a few but building through the draft and seeing where it gets them.

But you have to hit.

And the Houston Rockets the Oklahoma City Thunder, they've built through the draft in a way that is a nice model for Houston, but you have to make sure you nail those picks. And so for the Jazz it's like, yeah, we can build through the draft, but if we don't get Cooper Flag in the draft, will this be all for not?

And unfortunately the NBA, for.

A small market team, the odds are not great to begin with, and the odds that might be best if you build through the draft like okay see and Houston has and hope. You can nail those picks and you can get an Alpha and Shane Gun. You can get a check Holmegrin or a Jalen Williams. But the history of the NBA shows you know, you need a superstar and probably two or three of them in order to

Before I set you loose, because I know you got to go, and if you need to go quick, just be quick, quick with the answer.

But here's the thing.

I've never considered anybody to be able to win a quote triple crown in pro basketball because I simply thought it was entirely impossible. And Nikola Jokic is second in rebounding right now, he's second in assists. Uh no, excuse me. He leads a league in rebounding, he's second in scoring, and he's second in assists, and he's shooting like forty three.

Percent from three.

Maybe we're numb to it, but he strikes me as like this virtue also, who's mastered the cello and wants to retire and go do something else. What do you make of what we could potentially see with Jokicic this year?

I hate to correct you, but I'm only doing it because I love you and because it's even funnier. The stat is, Jokic isn't.

Shooting forty three percent from downtown.

He's shooting fifty six.

Oh my gosh, I must have had the wrong stat That's insane Gez.

Fifty six percent spends from downtown, and it's you know, do you have to qualify it. I'm not so sure heies right now, just because of the games played from the three point standpoint, but fifty six percent from downtown first and rebounding not quite like you said, not quite assists and points right now, but he's right in the

He's a virtuo.

So he is the best player in the NBA, and I don't think it's particularly.

Close this season.

I don't know if you'll have the volume or he'll continue to shoot that well from downtown.

But it's all things are possible with that guy.

He is a savant.

He is the chosen one in terms of like basketball skill, and he's got incredible hands. He's second in the NBA in deflections. We're not even talking about those steals and block numbers for Yokich, but he's second in the NBA in deflections per game behind Dyson Daniels, which no one realizes is that he's just got these ridiculous myths that not just has the touch but also just the hand eye coordinations ridiculous. And so Jokich is incredible. He's my pick,

Heading back to the motherland Tommy tomorrow.

So I'll pay my respects to the great I'm sure Tom Haberstrow statue that's outside of Staples High School at some point. So have a great Thanksgiving, my friend, Thank you for the time.

Okay, you too, And I'll just say this.

Charlotte, where I live, they just announced Dave Matthews band is going to headline a festival here, so I'm already trying to get in line for tickets.

Stop it, I'm gonna fly out. We'll go to a Dave show together. Let's do it.

Dude in there.

It is Tom Haberstrow, the Great Tom Haberstrow, one of my favorite NBA guests all of his work. He's very busy. He's about to go record a podcast. He does like five a week. Tomdefiner dot Com is a substack. He writes a column for Yahoo Sports, and he's on the Blazers broadcast team. My man has like seven jobs at Tom Haberstrow is where you find him all right before we catch a break. Welcome in Doug from Farmer and Chemist on a Monday afternoon.

Doug, Happy Monday, sir.

How are you good afternoon?

I'm doing great, Happy to be with you.

Thank you, appreciate the time today.

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Doug, thank you sir for your time. Have a great Thanksgiving. Look forward to chatting with you again soon.

Okay, thank you, Happy Thanksgiving to all.

This song actually works in a lot of different ways, one which will remain off air. But excited on this Monday during Thanksgiving weeks to have Richard Smith live in studio, Smitty, you brought us a special guest.

I'm gonna let you introduce him. The floor is yours.

Oh no, well no, this isn't.

This is first of all, I'm I'm I'm merely here as the pawn in this in this whole whole charade that you've got going on.

You know you think it's a charade.

Well, well, if you have me, I know, I know, I know that you're down at the bottom of the battle. So I got to try and lift it up. Okay, you know, lift up. As you fill the water jug, the cream rises to the top. So you get you get doctor Chris Hill in the studio so he can bring something that makes sense to the show.

You know other than my my blabbering all the time.

So, doctor Hill, how are you, sir? Happy Monday? It's smitty. You know, there's an old expression.

You can bs the baker and get a bun, and you bs me you get none.

All right, that's happened for a long time.

I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine.

This is gonna be fun. Just three Northeast guys. We'll try to stay on track here. But I have a lot that I want to get to. First of all, we're kindred spirits. You enjoy Thanksgiving like I do?

Yes?

Oh, I sure do. Yeah, it's my family. My staff is laughing right now. Notes from now Oh my old staff, you know her best stay of here. Oh yeah, I drove them all crazy.

I love it.

Yeah, so do I so do I All right, Doctor Hill, it's been a minute since you and I have been able to catch up, and I just can't.

I'm shaking my head as.

I outline the fact that we're sitting here with seven straight Utah fop l's first time since nineteen eighty six, and they're a nine point five point dog on Friday, which are to be a historic losing streak for Utah football. I get a lot of things wrong. I don't know that I've ever been this wrong about something, as far as how wrong I've been about this team.

How do you unpack this? Well, you're not the only one wrong for so you're not the lone ranger.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're all on the bandwagon, you know. Now it's a fifty seven Chevy the bandwagon.

You don't know whenyons on.

But it took me so much by surprise, and still is taking me by surprise. Yeah, I'm just like wow each game and they're just I don't know what they would do. I forgot what those days are like. I mean, I still have that ears around. But boy, in the late eighties and nineties, before you and Smitty were born, it was brutal. It was brutal, and so you know you'd lose when you get up Sunday morning. That makes for a long week. Yeah.

I wonder Smitty how you've because obviously you were part of a lot of very successful jazz front offices, but there were down years when you were rebuilding and losing seeps in. I wonder how you compartment is. We've talked about Utah football. They're lofty expectations and what it's like for a locker room when the losing piles the way it has for Utah football.

Well, you know, it's interesting the different spence is. And guys would tell me this, who played professional basketball overseas in some of the domestic leagues where sometimes they only play once a week on the weekends, and they'd say, you know, well, you know you play in the in Greece. If you only play on a team that plays in the in the in the domestic league, you're playing once a week. You're playing on Saturday or Sunday. And if you lose, then you got to deal all week long

You know.

In the NBA, you know, sometimes like the Jazz this week of going into a schedules starting tomorrow where they play four games and six days.

So whether you win or lose, you gotta go boom boom.

We got to get onto the next thing, right And you know, but in the football, like you know, with what the what the U football team is going through right now, you know, seven losses in a row, that's seven weeks, that's almost two months. That you've had to listen to why can't you guys win a game? Why couldn't you win the game you just played? What's the

Thanksgiving Bowl game.

Let's go guys, Kumbaya and all that stuff. But you know, it's hard to get that that reaction from those guys, even though they know that on Saturday they come home from from Orlando and the season's over.

It's all done.

Doctor Hill, you're the man who hired coach with and I honestly, and I say it all the time. I have a good relationship with Kyle. He's good enough to come on the show a few times throughout the year, even though they practice in the afternoons. But I don't have a pulse on how this has affected him. I try to. I watch his pressers. He looks tired. When I had him on the show a couple of months ago, we had a few minutes before recording and I said, how you doing? He said, this is as hard as

I went to work out at UH where Schmitty and I do yoga UH peace with ourselves on night. Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm a rainbow amongst the clouds.

So you know.

One of the things is I hadn't been in the foot A Center from all a bit of three years. So I'm working out at Steiner and it was last Tuesday, and I thought, you know, sometimes it is eighty I just go by and see if Kyle's in his office, and just shoot the crap for a while. So the secretary, Oh, we'll find him, We'll find him. He want to talk to you because I think, you know, somebody's not going to say what's going on. So I walked in. I said, are you're breathing? Because I think so? I think so.

So tomorrow?

Story is, Kyle's really really got to be worn out. I just looked on his face, and I think he was. He didn't want to rush out of room because we weren't talking about football, sure, and I never talked to football at him, you know. I always talked about houses, you know, how's you managing the team, stuff like that. But you know, he looked like he was really really tired.

Tell me this follow up here, because I truly don't know whether or not Kyle's decision to end his time as head coach is soon, and I don't know that this year matters as far as the context of what would be a really big choice for him. But what does your gut tell you as far as what you know about him? Do you think a season like this motivates Kyle to say not like this? Or do you think he's done enough where it's like one year doesn't matter. I had twenty really good years at Utah. I don't

Now I'm over seventy, and you know, you get I told him, you know, he's what about you? And I said, well, I didn't get down a yellow no pad and put one thing on the other. And I said, you know, nobody can tell you what to do, and you can try to we win this year, we lose next year, okay, the odsom we win in and blah blah blah blah blah. We all know it's a crap shoot. And I said, this is pretty simple. But you this is just why I sending you buy your home because it just has

Interesting Smitthia, I can't eloquently tie Kyle to Jerry as far as the way Jerry's career ended, because that's a different outlier.

That's a different thing.

It was a moment in time with a player now who has admitted that he was a prima donna and a selfish ass in.

His words, not mine.

But I do remember Jerry oftentimes when it came to losing, internalizing it in a way that probably wasn't very healthy because coaches are wired like that. And I think what doctor Hill is describing with Kyle has kind of reminded me a little bit of every time Jerry would lose in fear that he's never going to win another NBA game. Coaches are wired differently, aren't they.

Yeah, and and and you know, I I also think that with with the perspective of time and experience, that some of those things start to get into a little more. You know, your your edges are worn down a little bit.

You know.

With with coach Sloan, you know, towards the end, you know, he just didn't want to deal with a lot of the so called heavy lifting that was involved in trying to keep the ship afloat and keep it going in the right direction.

Even with a pretty decent Yeah, you know.

We had we had a good team, but uh, you know, but but you know with with with uh, you know what with Chris is saying about about Kyle. He's been there so long, has had such success and has had a formula and knows what he needs to get done to keep that that that train on the track and

Room or whatever.

To me, my opinion, that is so much blogoney that it shouldn't even be, you know, be talked about. You know, they've had a bad year. Injuries, things haven't gone their way. All the breaks they needed they didn't get. That's just what happened the last couple of months. And you know, you have to take it for what that is. And put it in the greater perspective to try and assess what you want to do going forward.

So a lot of good stuff there, and it's Doctor Hill. It's an interesting balance, right because Smithy alluded to this, and I believe it to be true that Kyle has earned the right to go.

Out on his terms.

Absolutely, that's how I feel, and I believe that that is the equity that he has built up in this market over two decades. But at what point from an administrator's perspective, do you start to get concerned, Like, if we're sitting here, the three of us, let's make it an annual things Thanksgiving week, you guys are welcome here

When you feel like it, You know, you get to the point where I always tell everybody that you evaluate people get real.

You know I got a PhD.

But I don't use all that stuff sometimes because some things are really simple. Like I just talked about it. So an employee comes into your office and says they're going to resign. Are you dancing on the tabletops or are you distraught? If you're dancing on the tabletops, you kind of got to go with what your answer is. That's not happening, Kyle. You know that's not happening. And so it's just really one of those things where it's up to him. You know, the world of sports is

I mean, you wouldn't want to mess with them.

And you can imagine they go home and you know, I used to say, you know, coach goes to sleep at four in the morning, the ad goes to sleep at one point thirty in the retired guy goes to sleep at.

Eleven after the game. The way it is, and it's really hard.

So you know, I just don't want to do any kind of hypothetical what's going to happen because he's earned too much respect.

I agree with you, all right before we catch a break, doctor Hill, And if you do not want to talk about this, it is well within your right to see into that microphone buzz off. I have nothing to say. However, when a few friends of mine who listened to the program heard me tease that you were going to be on the show today, they both sent me the same message, and essentially it said, Penny first thoughts about what Mark Harland decided to do after the Utah BYU game, and

Yeah, you know, I was bounding to termine when when I left, and still am that any kind of administrative things that happened, I'm not going to blink my eyes one with the other.

Fair.

The last thing I do is I don't want to be seen as that old guy that's criticizing what goes on or not I can complain about throwing a pass the wrong way or something. No, I think for me and I appreciate, let me not go into that because what I say it's not going to be worthwhile anything.

And I don't know Mark very well anyway. I haven't spent much time with him at all.

So and what you can comment on is as the a d after a hard fought Utah b U Yu football game, if you feel like you're on the wrong side of certain things, that's that's a different type of intense emotion, isn't it.

Oh?

It is?

And you know and and there are times when I was in the hallway after game years ago, I don't I don't forget it is with Kyle had they he didn't call a time out and the referee did and costs us essentially the game. And I'm in the tunnel and pretty upset and talking to the conference office. But in my job. I you know, maybe it started with Rick, but I was you know, I didn't want to be near the bench ever or during the sideline. But this

Yeah, okay, we'll catch a quick break. Richard Smith, doctor Christill Live in studio. Got one more big segment coming up next. We'll launch it at the five o'clock hour after that. Don't forget the Craig Smith Coaches shows tonight at six, and then after that it's Monday Night football the Harball Bowl with the Ravens and the Chargers. So keep it here on the ESPN seven hundred. All right, we've got doctor Priscill, former ad up on the Hill,

What?

Forty years in the league? Doctor? How long were you an administrator in college? Forget? No, thirty one years is the ad?

So a combined seventy one years of life experience in sports, Smitty, that's not nothing.

I'm just trying to pay you a compliment. Experience doesn't mean intellect. That doesn't mean I was smart for thirty one years. Oh you did a pretty good job, doctor.

Was that the famous John Wooden line, don't mistake activity for achievement.

Fair enough? But one more question about coach Witt.

One more question about Utah football, then we'll move on to some other things. Smitty, referenced coach Sloan deciding, and I believe the phrase that Smitty used was he didn't want to do the heavy lifting anymore.

So.

On the college side of things, we've seen Nick Saban, Tony Bennett, and others powerhouse coaches. Saban, potentially the best of all time, walk away from the job that he loves, and now that he's in media, we know he walked away because he doesn't want anything to do with what the sport has become. Do you think there's any part of Kyle that looks at what the sport has become and doesn't want to deal with it.

Yeah?

Yeah, well, you know, random one day he says, we can't couldn't give you a hamburger something, you know, eight years ago and seriously couldn't do it.

A bagel or a bagel with cream. Sees like that was how silly it was.

You know, it's interesting because the guys, at least I think it's interesting the guys that have in that age bracket, they kind of grew up as coaches because they wanted to coach, and all of a sudden they started making money, you know, But they got into coaching because they wanted to tell the defensive attack. You got to do this, You got to move here, Scott. You know, I Ohays used to say, there's two kinds of coaches. When you

And I think a lot of those guys.

I think Saban probably was one of those guys as much as he's big now and all this money and everything, you know, and it's hard for that. It would be hard for me, it'd be hard for anybody that you couldn't really coach them up. And you know you're you're not in control. Oh coach, I'm sorry, I'm leaving because I'm making this much more money there. You know, love you care about you.

You know you've gone.

And I understand the whole deal. I understand why they need to have the portal and all this, but I just hope that they get contracts for kids where if they leave. At least somebody's got to pay somebody. Yeah, you know there's something. You know, they're pros. They got a model. You know what are we shine away from? You know I used to call I call it now uh work study.

It is.

They were just like somebody working in cafeteria. Y. They work their employees.

It's okay.

And they get paid for what they do if they do something valuable to get paid. Now that's hard because the fourth string tackle isn't really Scholarship is forty thousand dollars pretty good for an eighteen year old kid that's not playing.

Yeah, you know so anyway, I didn't mean.

No, no, you just you hit the nail on the head. What's happening is that they in college athletics. Now from my perspective, is that the genie is out of the bottle, and but and nobody knows where it's gonna go, uh next week. It's it keeps changing, it keeps evolving, it keeps getting more out of hand, more less and less able to grab it and to try and figure out what to what to do with it is the way

And they know they end up staying.

But you know, he was saying, well, if that's if that's what it's going on, now, like I can't deal with that, you know. And Plus now, like he said to me, if I happen to get another Damian Lillard at Weaver State, right, I got him one year and then he's he's he's going to u.

C l A.

He's going to Kansas him for a year.

No, No, that's that's that's true.

Also, you know the way it is now, So yeah, it's it's just a whole different thing. And and and and Chris is exactly right. The guys who who were into it because they love the coaching and the ex's and o's and the napkins and on the on the coffee table and all that kind of stuff. And and now it's a whole different world. And and and why guys are getting into it, from what I've seen in recent years, is a different rationale for getting into it.

That's it from his book. All I got the book. All the things he said, all the things I said, I never said.

That's right.

Every one of those stories, every one of those things has a little explanation. You know, that place is so crowded, everybody goes there anywhere. That's he used They used to have to work in the off season. He was a mader d yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it got so crowded, a place came so popular, his guys didn't come. Yeah, so got so crowded nobody came anymore. And that was his explanation. But anyway, yeah, I love it. I do think, you know, we can't be whining about it being different

Different.

Yeah, and I think that and and and Kyle said that today. I think in the press he said some version of of Hey, the way it's changed now in recent years, you either adapt or or you are you you choose option by that.

Yeah, My problem is is that is that some coach, you know, Kyle gets a player, develops them. You know, that's our That was what made Kyle's program win in those great years. And but now you you know, it's it's like you know in basketball, Rick used to take the guy out, you know.

If he didn't hustle.

Now that Kayle calls his uncle says.

Hey, I'm supposed to play, It's like who's the guy practice he's talking about and the kids going ant he he I didn't get back on defense, and you know, Joey, I think, you know Texas is gonna take me. So it's kind of like, how do you coach him up? And in basketball, one of my big concerns is that college basketball is dropping. And you'll see Kansas game crowded, in this game crowded, but you know the utes aren't getting people. But it's not uncommon around the country. I mean,

I can't wait to go back and see him.

And in basketball it's different because you can see him and then reality should go and look and see where their family is. See kind of grow up thinking, oh, this is my team, these are my guys. Uh, I didn't know who's on a team this year. It's a little bit like fans. I don't want to be too corny, but they kind of fall in love with guys like adrenaline.

I mean, hell for sure, so you can't wait for them.

He lost some weight stronger this year he can shoot better from the outside, beat beat beep.

All those things.

Yeah, it's to say, it's a you develop a relationship from your perspective.

You think you know who they are and and something. You know.

It's just like running into you know, Tom Hanks at the airport, and you know, you run up to hey Tom, you think he's gonna say, hey, hey, Chris.

How you doing?

You know whatever you know and and uh and and but it's always that that that feeling that you have with them.

Now, you know.

Jerry Seinfeld was doing a little bit a while ago about growing up a Mets fan and all the guys he used to root for all their career and stuff, and now he says, they change, players change all the time. I don't even know who's who's playing anymore. But now I figure all I'm doing now is really basically rooting for laundry, because I'm just rooting for whoever's wearing the Mets shirt, whatever that is. You know, I'm rooting for

You know.

But yeah, now the great Seinfeld bit, let me ask you one more Utah football question, because I need to ask you point blank your opinion on exactly how we find ourselves here. And the hard thing about this topically, doctor who is? I do feel like you can be as reductive as saying if Cameron was healthy, everything would be different. I honestly feel that way. But we're talking seven straight l's and potentially eight, so on a scale of reductive, Cam got hurt to holy smokes, how did we get here?

Well?

I think losing becomes a habit too, you know, and you lose your confidence and you know, our defense, you know, I mean, God bless them, they're doing great, but at kind of the end of the game they're kind of have no confidence and the team goes down the scores. I mean, they kicked butt for you know, a whole time, and all of a sudden something happened. So it's snowballs. It's not like we're getting beat by forty and you just call it a day. But I you know, the

Just out of pure curiosity, because honestly don't know. I just remember after the Rose Bowls, the back to back Rose Bowls, Fox thirteen did a really good piece on what that meant for the athletic department, what it meant for the University of Utah, how much free advertising, how much free exposure it allowed for the institution. And therefore

Well, the bulls you don't make money on.

But you got to believe that people are saying, well, I really want a big one tickets. You know, am I going to donate as much this year? You know, people start to get soft, so you worry. You worry for financially, and you'll worry about the image with you know, to recruit new kids. And you know, losing is you know, it's brutal. You know, there's no way about nowhere around it. And winning is off the chart the other way, you know. So I mean they're they're they're not selling T shirts.

It's even bigger now.

So you know, it's it's why that football coaches get paid a lot. Man, It changes the whole deal.

Yeah, most states, they're the highest paid public employees. In my home state, Connecticut, it's the basketball coach because Ucon's a basketball school.

But Smitty, let me go to you on this. So we're nearing the end.

Of football season, so Friday is the final game for the youths, and after that's kind of behind us. We'll lean a little bit more into our Utah men's basketball coverage for our listeners out there that aren't acutely aware of how ridiculous the Big Twelve is in men's basketball. Put a little context on what Craig and his group are up against coming up this year as a new member of the Big Twelve.

Well, the Big Twelve in recent years has been considered by most so called experts or those who are weigh in anyway, as the toughest college men's college basketball conference in the country, tougher than the ACC, tougher than the Big Ten, tougher than the SEC, and the Utes are going to have a hard time because in part I think, I think, first of all, I don't know what kind of favors they're doing themselves with the preseason schedule that

Now.

You don't play everybody in the conference right the way it wasn't It isn't football. You play a certain number of teams and and a certain number of home home games and and and road games, and so you don't play everybody. So sometimes you can escape, you know, and avoid playing a few big boys along the way. But but it's gonna be a very interesting season. It's gonna be fun to see some of those teams that do come in that come into the Huntsman Center this year

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right on the mark.

You know that.

I come in to see the youth unfortunately, because I've been to some of the YOUTE games already, and as frank Leyden would would often say, you know, the game was just a rumor because there were like two or three hundred people there.

Whatever.

We went to the game together with Frank and Smitty. They were my first game I went to on Saturday, and Frank is Frank, He is unbelievaba. But you know, it's interesting dynamic because now you know it's like the Big Ten. A little bit you don't have to have is you have to have some marks in your fall season. It's really important in this and you know you need four or five to make a mark, and then you have nothing to lose on them. You go three and two against some top teams. You know, even if you

And Craig is very front facing about it and opted you know, optimistic and uh, you know, believes they'll get there. They were picked to finish last in the conference. But let me follow up doctor Hill on a question that we've discussed before. And if there was an easy answer, you just do it and you solve the thing.

But as you know, I was a student at Utah in the late nineties.

We planned our weeks around basketball games and it was always jam packed and it was so fun. And whenever I go up to the Huntsman now I'm like, what happened? You know, it feels like you're in some fever dream.

Yeah, it really it's hard, you know, I think when we you know, obviously Rick Rick left. It was you know, not only we were winning, we also had a guy in the sideline that people came to watch him.

Yes, you know, I mean they really did. Yeah.

And you know we had a couple of Chad tournament I mean, you know, Larry went to the sweet sixteen and we started to group creep up a little bit with attendance. So you got to win. But I mentioned earlier, I'm worried about college basketball. Yeah, I really am. I mean, we have a lot of people like basketball, and but Utah State's been winning like crazy byus different. I mean, they have always have great attendance, even on some down years.

And they were packed. Yes, I remember. Now you play a seven thirty game, you go on, my guess and what am I going to do?

Well?

I tell people this.

You know, a good time to start a game is when your team's great. You know, that's it doesn't matter what's a good seat in the house when your team wins.

That's all.

The seats are good when you win. Yeah, none are good. The hot dogs are cold. Everything's bad when you lose. Right, So until they they can win significantly, I think it's going to be tough coming back.

But a lot of schools are in there now.

It's sad to say, all right, Smitty, before we take our break and I let you guys go, we probably should talk about some jazz, since that's why we have you here more often than not. So I'll say this, over the past seven or eight games, offensively, they've been a lot better. Their offensive rating over the past eight games is like number seven in the NBA. Now, they do not guard anybody. Knocked down a bunch of shots against the Knicks, but they have been better offensively. I'll

Yeah, well, they they made some shots in a few games, Okay. John Collins playing at the five has helped. I think somewhat they get a little bit. You know, he's playing very efficiently to this point, do you realize they've played John Collins has played all in all sixteen games the Jazz have played so far. Did you realize John Collins has missed one free throw?

Well, that's impressive.

He's forty seven for forty eight from the free throw you're kidding, Youssi. But he's playing efficiently at the five spot. They still turn the ball over too much. There's still too loose with it. The transition defense. Their man to man defense is really bad. There's still bottom five in all the statistical categories that hasn't improved. It looks like they're trying to play some different guys, some different lineups, just to get something something going. They played very well

That's what the G League is for. That's what those guys are supposed to be.

Twenty year old guys, twenty one year old guys, one year in college here they come not ready to play in the NBA, but they but they're force feeding them

Well, look, gentlemen, always a pleasure. Thanks so much, live in studio, have a great Thanksgiving. You'd love to do it again, Okay.

Yeah, I really appreciate it. It's comfortable with you here, and I can say some things I want to say that love it.

I love it.

Richard Smith. Great to see you, my friend, Bens.

Thanks man, Happy Thanksgiving to you and everybody out there.

There We go all right, Thanks traveled, Larry H.

Miller and Draper the Ford King Utahs number one volume Ford Dealer and they'll beat any trade in price in town by seven hundred and fifty dollars anytime any day. Find them online at lhm FOD Draper dot com. Steve Young in about we'll call that twenty two minutes right now, prior to the Craig Smith Coaches Show, we'll catch up with one of the best quarterbacks in the history of football period, whether collegiate or pro, where he won a number of Super Bowls and obviously one of the most

You know, we've been talking about this all day.

Both Utah and BYU with pretty valiant comebacks over the weekend. Both those games fell short. Utah football mired in a seven game losing streak. Nobody saw this coming. I don't care what the revisionist historians say. Nobody saw this coming. Utah heads to Orlando coming up on Friday. It's a short week. They're taking on one of the best offenses

You know, you guys know the deal.

If you were with a team, or even if you graduated from high school or college, or we're in a fraternity or whatever, like that last moment when you are with your class or your team, you don't really realize that you won't see some of those people ever again. For the rest of your lives, you will never be together in that same group, in that same room. So

You know, the week of Thanksgiving for Utah football.

A team that was picked by Vegas to win the Big Twelve Championship, a team that was picked by the media.

What do we know to win the Big twelve Championship? And now we find them?

You know, we find ourselves in the spot watching this team week in and week out not necessarily get blown out. But I'm not here for that. I'm not here for the moral victories. You gotta win at the end of the day. And it's been seven straight l's in a tough game coming up at UCF in Orlando, I will say, and I know this is hard to do because there's so many people in the community that are so bummed out about where we find ourselves now with Utah football

Cole Becker had the leg. He just pushed it.

He just pushed it right, and you know, the air went out of the building. Senior night, they're ordering Ty Jordan are low. There is part of me that's always kind of had this thought in the back of my mind with Ti Jordan potentially being a senior this year, what that would have looked like. But you know, you can't exist in that space. Some cool moments having his family on the field and honoring them that way. So Utah football will close up the season coming up on

Now, on the.

Byu side of things, you know by was one of those teams this past weekend, along with Colorado, along with Alabama, along with old miss Good teams. In the driver's seat, you just handle your business and you are in with an opportunity to win a big twelve championship game, and now unfortunately the past two weeks after starting nine to zero, and at some point, I mean, we have to be honest here, at some point they were gonna get got.

Been brilliant all year long.

We saw Jake play last year and the thing was you could see the talent and the potential.

It was just decisions.

It was decision making from the quarterback position, and they have been able to survive. Would I perceive to be still the issue with Jake, and that is just you got to clean it up a little bit.

You know.

There are several plays around the course of this year where I feel like Byu has been able to survive his mistakes and make up for them with special teams, touchdowns or defensive ca you know, Havoc plays. But the past couple of weeks they've not been able to survive his mistakes. So the scenario now for BYU is pretty simple. Unfortunately, they no longer only control their own destiny. They are

It's going to be a late kick. Looks like that's gonna be about eight to fifteen.

But they also need either Arizona State or Iowa State to lose. Iowa State closes out with K State at home, and Arizona State does have a rivalry game against Arizona on the road, so BYU at one point it looked like it was going to be BYU in Colorado, and part of me was pulling for that because I thought it would be a lot of fun to see that Iowa stayed is a slight favorite at home over K State to get that win. As of right now, K State's good football team, though, so we'll kind of see

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Tried to carry karaoko karaoke to at Jim's party he wasn't invited to and made it awkward. I feel like there's an office tie to this song.

There is a couple office ties to Kenny Rogers for sure. You might be right on that one. They do the book signing thing too.

Yeah, that's one of the more I'm a fan of awkward humor. I know some people that cannot watch the office like Scott's Tots Oh, Dinner Party.

Dinner Party is rough, bro, It's.

A unique comedy where it is, like some of it, you'd really have to understand the characters, the relationships, the whole tie in. But man, it is awkward, and it's as awkward as it gets on television.

Good luck paying for my TV with your zero dollar your salary, babe, which he breaks his plasma TV like with his dundee the four inch TV. I love it when he pushes it against the wall. He's like, it comes with the cool feature and he just like pushes it back against the wall.

That's a top five episode for sure.

It is hilarious.

You got a little nard dog in there, which of course is always a good thing. All right, real quick, you know, I do not watch a lot of MLS. I only watch RSL. I was struck though, over the weekend because after some of the games are wrapped up, I noticed that the the Western Conference semi final between LAFC and Seattle was on television. LAFC, of course Los Angeles Soccer Club.

It was in LA.

And every time LAFC had a corner kick, the cameraman would pan over and be like, well, there's Colin Hanks again, trying to motivate everybody to stand up for the court. I'm like, you're in LA and the dude you got to tell people to stand up was Colin Hanks. Like that's the biggest that's the biggest celebrity available, Colin Hill is that it's Tom's kid.

Not even Oh, I guess he's the So Tom has two kids, Colin is gone into acting. His other kid is like kind of an influencer, weirdo guy. Yeah, you could do better.

Probly, what is Colin Hanks done?

I don't even know. I just and by the way, it'd be one think if it was like, all right, well cool, Colin Hanks is here and just show him real quick. But that's the guy there was like motivating fans to stand up for corner Kicks. It was it was Colin Hanks. So, so, I guess that tells you where MLS is at at this He was in that thing You Do, which of course was produced by his dad and porter. Why don't you remind the folks our stance on NEPO babies here on the program?

Can't win with them?

All right, Okay, I'm out. I didn't tell you this prior to but I've I've had it. That's enough.

You'll not hear me speaking into this microphone ever again or until next Monday. Where you h I'm going home for the holiday.

Man.

My son is living back east. My family of course is back there.

So coming up tomorrow and on Wednesday, it will be Porter and our guy Tony Tony Parks filling in for both Tuesday and Wednesday show. We're off Thursday and Friday. Then I will be back on Monday. So Porter, before we get out of here, what should our listeners know about your Tuesday show?

Hey, you mentioned it, Tony Parks and I'll be in studio. Tim mcmannle stop by for the NBA Daily Assist. Well, we'll give you a Big twelve Power poll on a Tuesday. Kevin Reynolds of the Tribune will give us the latest on BYU in there Big twelve title. Chase. I invited Dave Fox in h You're not gonna be here, so he's probably not gonna even acknowledge it.

Are you serious? Is that how he rolls?

We'll see, we'll see if he's we'll see if he's listening tonight, if he's listening tonight and he heard this, he's gonna get offended and he'll text me back immediately. If not, I'll probably hear from him next week.

I'll give him some guff tonight.

Don't do it, don't do it?

Okay, well not see, okay, fair enough. This is a test for day Fox, all right?

And is that it for Tuesday show?

For now?

All right? No, that's fun.

So make sure to give Porter and Tony your ears and I'll talk to you guys one week from today, so we will say good night. Special thank you to Steve Young, Tom Haberstrow, Richard Smith and doctor Chris Hill. If any of the sound you may miss from the show, head on over to the website. It's ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. Make sure to download our mobile app and take us on the go. It's the ESPN seven hundred app, which is available in the App Store and