Alright, what's going on? Drivetime Monday afternoon, about fifteen minutes past the hour of two o'clock. All is here. It's a little chilly, as we are about to turn our calendars to November here in a few days. But as it is every single day, it's gonna have you along for the riots. Bence check. It's behind the mike. That young man is Porter Larson beyond the glass producing this program today. How's your Monday? How are we doing? How we doing?
Guys?
Bring it in big group, hug rough Monday, kind of all the way around, depending on your local sports fandom. Luckily BYU continues to play really well for you fans, it's not gonna do much for you. RSL is in the Major League Soccer playoffs that starts tomorrow. So a couple of local teams winning, but most local teams losing. The Utah Hockey Club three straight losses, now three goals in three games after scoring sixteen goals in their first three games. We're gonna do a little Utah Hockey Club
on the program today, do a little RSL. Of course, Utah football is stunned. I don't know what to say. Man, Like we were talking about this during cross talk with OC. I've been wrong often, and I'm find admitting that I don't know that I've ever been as wrong about a team as I've been about this Utah football team. Four straight losses, You guys know the deal. I am stunned they lost to Houston, But at this point, maybe that's
a me problem. Last week I was the guy that was holding on to the last branch before falling face down to the mud, and today I am face down in the mud. I don't know what. I don't know how to spin it. Man, it is odd, but give BYU a lot of credit. As they moved eight to no they're a top ten team now number nine in the country. Both teams now are a buy before They're going to play up here eight fifteen kick time unfortunately, so it's gonna be a late game. Don't love that.
But down in the stretch we come. College football continues to be pretty interesting from a national standpoint. We'll get to some college football takeaways Big twelve Takeaways on the program. Your Pro Football weekend will wrap up tonight we get Russell Wilson and Daniel Jones Monday Night Football. I'm also a Yankee fan. The Dodgers are up two.
Oh.
I'm also a Jets fan. They lost to the Patriots. So how's your Monday from a sports perspective, Mine's not great. But we got a good guest list for you guys on this Monday afternoon to help you get your work week started out the correct way. Bell Fraser will be our first guest covers the Utah Hockey Club for the Salt Lake Tribune. Tom Haberstrow will drop your NBA Daily Assist. I gotta say, I gotta say one team that is
losing that I'm fine with the Utah Jazz lose. Okay, if you've listened to the show, I've been on it for a while, I'm gonna stay on it. Nobody likes losing, but it is a necessity if you have to do a bit of a reset in pro basketball like the Jazz have to do. So we'll talk to Tom Haberstrow today. I'm sorry about this, but on a Monday, we're gonna give you our Big twelve Power rankings. Who Baby and then Matt Crooks from RSL will stop by. Scott Mitchell,
former Utah quarterback on the program as well. Belle Frasier, Tom Haberstrow, Matt Crooks, Scott Mitchell, Me Spence Jackets, all of you the great listeners on this Monday. Thank you for making us a part of your Monday. And that guy order Larson. I've been wrong, buddy, as you know, you produced the show for a number of years now. I've been wrong before. I don't know that I've ever been as wrong as I clearly have been about this Utah football team.
Well, and I mean all of us can be guilty of that. And you look at the Big twelve pre season media poll, Utah was up there at number one. They were picked as the team to win it by not just us here in the market, but by media members across the country and around the conference. Yeah, we're wrong, but there is a lot of context to that, which includes obviously the availability of a quarterback, which is the
main issue I think with this Utah team. That being said, just this is big of an issue, is the inability to move on from not having quarterback one and that is what we'll get into today. In addition, too, as you mentioned, a whole bunch of other stuff going on in the market.
Yeah, it's a busy time of year, so that gives us a lot to get to We'll start things off little hockey chatter with bel Fraser from the trail. But before we get to bell courtesy of our friends at Standard Restaurant Supply check them out at Standard Restaurant dot com or stop by the location of thirty five hundred South. It is time now for your opening tip.
Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check it's on Utah's number one sports talk. Now into the studio of ESPN seven hundred to set the scene for the show.
The opening tip.
Of the Drive is brought to you by Standard Restaurant Supply, your one stop shop to build the best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurant Supply, thirty five hundred South West Temple.
So we're gonna start the show on a Monday by taking our medicine. We gotta do it. Utah football goes down Houston and they lose last second field goal by Houston after an interception from Brandon Rose gave Houston some pretty good fuel position. Utah football has now lost four straight games for the first time since twenty seventeen. It's only the fourth time that it's ever happened in two decades under coach wit and now it's a bye week, and then you welcome in a red hot BYU Cougar
team right now, who's very complete. They play complimentary football, They're good all the way around. Jake Retzlav has has evolved and developed into one of the best quarterbacks in this conference period. That's what the numbers say. So you can complain about it all you want, but right now BYU is flying, and I guarantee they are smelling blood in the water like a shark, and they want to come up here and they want to go for the jugular. That's just the nature of this game. Grew up around it,
covered it for eighteen years doing this radio show. In other places this radio show as well. Usually there's chaos unless there's a big time talent gap. More often than not, it feels like a random, crazy play changes the scope of the entire thing. But as we sit here today, can't I can't. I can't sit here and tell you that I have confidence in this Utah football team to turn it around. I'm sorry about that. I wish I did.
We are your home of the Utes, and ultimately, as someone who went to school there and has watched this football program, be built brick by brick by coach wit for twenty years. This is new. This feels like an all time new low. And I don't know exactly where to kind of place blame. I don't do radio like that anyway. I'm not a call for the coach's job, guy Mackai Bernard. Everyone's talking about Mackay's comments after the game when he said, look, I know what's wrong. I'm
just not going to say it out loud. I've seen a lot of rumors about that. I can't speak to it. My guess is if he was honest and kept going after Josh Furlong from KSL asking the question, he would have talked about the quarterback play. I don't think there's anything behind closed doors going on that we don't know about, but I can't speak to it. I have no idea.
I'm not in the locker room. But I can just say, Man, the feeling around the community right now, and we all exist on our own little echo chambers and cognitive dissidents and such. So I am reacting to messages I receive from youth fans, social media, direct messages, friends, emails, text messages and such, and I from my vantage point. I don't think I can recall in eighteen years of doing this a feeling around Utah Football that feels this desolate,
this desperate, this low. And obviously it's losing, it's four straight, but it's also juxtaposed and combined with what we all thought that they could be. Like if we were all on the same page that Utah Football was going to really struggle to find their footing year one of the
Big Twelve, then the show would sound much different. We talk about the growing pains, and we talk about developing young players, and we talk about step by step like the reason everybody's so bummed about this is we all thought it was going to be the exact office And honestly, I don't know what to say about this team the rest of the year. I have seen Kyle Whittingham turn teams around, and as we talked about during cross talk, coach wit over twenty years does deserve the benefit of
the doubt. But I do feel like the trust is eroding a little bit. I mean, I'm not sure that there's another sports figure in our state that's more teflon than Kyle based off of what he's accomplished. Maybe Ryan Smith, because the man with the gold makes the rules. But you know, unless you you know, you want to count
that element of this discussion. Coach Wit is probably the most teflon sports figure in our state, and he is a man of great integrity and great character, and I'm sure that he's going to do everything in his power to try to get this thing right over the next twelve days before Brigham Young comes rolling up to Riyseycle Stadium. Because I can tell you what if we just see coming up at rice Ecles what we've seen from both teams, BYU wins by two touchdowns at least, Like how can
we spin any other way? As we say here today on this Monday, after watching Utah lose its fourth straight football game and watching BYU for the second time under Kolone Satake. The last time it was twenty twenty. During the COVID year, they've started eight and zero. They're in the top ten twelfth time all time for Brigham Young, in the top ten for their college football program. And the ironic thing is to start the year, we thought it was going to be BYU's tough schedule that might
trip them up and Utah's relatively easy schedule. According to the metrics that would play in their favor. But now the final four games, Utah has a much much more difficult task where you're playing essentially three of the four best teams in the conference, and then you finish with a three time zone travel to Orlando to take on a solid UCF team. So it's Brigham Young, then it's in Boulder against Colorado, it's back home against Iowa State, then you're on the road at UCF. How many wins
do you see? I mean, honestly, right here today as we sit it on a Monday and I read off the rest of the schedule for Utah football, how many wins do you see? Because they're going to need, you know, at least two to go bowling. And the really crummy part is it's going to be a throwaway bowl game. I mean, you like the experience for the seniors, and you want to qualify for a bowl because everybody does.
But when your season has been broken down and and essentially broken down to the studs, we're the only thing you're playing for is to ruin the seasons for your opponents. That's a damning sentiment about where this program is. And I have to wonder where Morgan is on this right. So there's a lot and you guys, you don't have to take it from me. There are people that know in a way that I just wouldn't that believe that Kyle is going to walk away at the end of
this year. And we know that Morgan is going to slide over one seat from his defensive coordinator slot and take over the head coaching job. Like, where is Morgan right now? I just wonder where his head is at as far is what he is about to inherit and what he's about to take over if that's the deal. Now, in a weird way, this could actually work to Morgan's favor because typically, you know, ask Tyrone Corbyn. I could
give you a list. You know, ask anybody who has stepped in for a coaching legend after that legend steps aside, ask them what that's like. More often than not, it doesn't work. Klin de bor is going through it down in Tuscaloosa. They're used to a certain standard and Alabama football has not played up to that standard. So if the season continues to go south, and I'm sorry on this Monday, after being the guy that was holding on to the last branch last week, I let go of
the branch. I'm face down in the mud. I can't. It's just the data that we have, the proof that we have. I think the defense is still good. Of course, a couple of fourth down goal line stands to keep him in the game, and by most metrics, Utah defense is still one of the elite defenses in both the conference in the country. But imagine being on that side of the football. And we've talked to Nate Orchard and
others and will talk to Scott Mitchell today about this. Like, if you're on the defense and you get a great stand, you go over and you have a sipagatorade, then you turn around, you got to put your helmet back on. At some point that is going to seep into the chemistry of the group. It's just inevitable, and we're starting to see it a little bit here there. But look, credit Brigham Young for what they've done. Klone's doing a
hell of a job. He's going to be on the short list for Coach of the Year both Big twelve and in the country, and he deserves it. Jake is playing mistake free football. I didn't think he could after the four starts and he lost all four last year. They're complimentary.
LJ.
Martin is back, Innkley, Rapotti's a beast. They can pass it, they can run it. Their special teams are dialed. They turned the other team over. They did it twice again against UCF. They take care of the football much better than Jake was under center last year. They've got a big time playmaker and Chase Roberts. Darius Lassiter has uped his game as well. Dari and Jake just kind of have this thing. They are dialed in on both sides
of the football, all three phases. Offense, defense, special teams BYU is far superior, as we say here today over the University of Utah. Sorry, I wish I could spin it in another way. See, this is a great song and a great intro, but you can't cut it short. You gotta let it bleed into the start of the song, right I think, So, yeah, you can't. I mean, because
it really is and this was so Bell picked this song. Yes, we must have an old soul on our hands because I believe she's too young for the who Belle Frasier covers the Yutah Hockey Club? Did you grow up? With the who bell.
No, but it was always the New York Rangers intro song for playoffs, So it was just part of my childhood inherently. Yes, I guess it was like my hockey song growing up.
I love it. I love it well, great memories, certainly attending a lot of Ranger games, as you and I both did. All right, Belle, what's gone wrong here? After the hot start we kind of come back down earth? What stands out most of you about this Utah Hockey Club streak of three losses and then five losses in their last six games.
Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, it was a hot start. You know, that was not a start.
I think most people were expecting from that team, especially going into the Islanders and Rangers opening night with those overtime wins, and then they had another great overtime win at Delta Center against the Bruins where they played a good game, and I think this is just what you have to expect with the team that's in the fourth year of a rebuild with one number one defenseman right now, and then kind of figuring out how to work with
their injured blue line. Coach shuffled the lines a lot today, in practice, so you're going to see a new look up front for them tonight. But I think other than the five to one loss against Colorado, I think that game they just didn't show up at all. The player said it afterwards, it was kind of an unacceptable performance. The effort level wasn't there, the buying wasn't there. But I think the four NASA loss against Ottawa looks a
lot worse than maybe it was. You know, they let up gas for eight minutes in the first period, gave up four goals, and then for the second and third didn't give up anything else and had a lot of good chances. And same thing with the Kings. That's a one shot game. Logan Cooley gets his first of the year and Clayton Keller gets his team going too. So I think what coach his sentiment today was, you obviously want wins in this league. You're not coming in just
to have moral victories. But when you look at the body of work, maybe the scores or or the loss column for them is it looks a little bit different than how they actually feel in the room, And I think that's kind of the message you have to to give to stay positive in there. They're building, and then they're trying to find their identity in Utah and that's not going to come with you know, a ten and
oh streak to start the season. But tonight they play the San Jose Sharks, so I believe are seven and two, So the pressure's on if you you don't want to underestimate any opponent in the league. But this is a team that Utah should be and it has an opportunity to get out of a losing right here and on home ice, nonetheless, so I would say this is kind
of a must win for the team. And we can talk about lines later, but yeah, they're shaking up the forward group to kind of get something going after only scoring what three regulation goals in three games?
Yeah, yeah, the offense is stalled and I wanted to kind of kick the tires with you on and you'll know better than I, But when I read up, I didn't watch a ton of Coyotes hockey last year. I will admit that bell I wasn't dialed in on them, so when I read about the issues they had a year ago, it seemed like most people believe that Connor was asked to stand on his head a bit because the defense was just kind of left wanting. Now, they made some additions in the offseason, as we know, they
also have some injuries. So are we kind of seeing a continuation of that issue that plagued them last year? Do you see that side of the equation here where the defense continues to struggle and they're asking their goalkeeper to do a little bit too much.
Yeah, for sure. That and they're not scoring in the numbers that they did last year too. Like last year they didn't have really a lot of issues scoring three to four goals a night, but they were giving up average three point five goals a night, I think, more than they were scoring. So that's never going to win you a game. And the back end, we talked about it earlier this season. That was the main thing they
focused on going to the season. They brought in Surgachev, they extended Dursey, they brought in John Marino, ian cole Bertuso, and Sean Jersey got shoulder surgery on his right shoulder and he's out four to six months. They just released and Marino hasn't even faded with the team yet. He got lower back surgery and is out I believe three to four months.
So those are two.
Guys that you kind of thought were going to be back in stalwarts for you, and you're kind of given the opportunity to a lot of young guys to step up. But that wasn't the blueprint for this season, you know. The whole point was to have these young guys be able to be paid with maybe a little more experienced veterans.
And you still have Sergachev and you still have Colon Bertuso, but they're kind of more stay at home, you know, puck eating physical defenseman and not the same two way maybe offensive flare the way that Marino and Jersey are. So I think you see that as a struggle for them. They have Michael Kesling on the first pair, who has been holding his own and has kept up with the minutes pretty well. But you know, that's not exactly what you would have imagined coming to the season. And then
they called up Maverick Lameru from the AHL. He made his NHL debut a few nights ago and he's been great, but he's twenty years old, you know, and he's learning the league for the first time as well. He's impaired with Ian Cole, So I think that NHL because of injuries and call ups, is kind of a learn as you go league. It's not really a developmental league. That's what the AHL is for. So you're kind of seeing Utah figure out their problems on the fly. And I
think that defense doesn't just come from the defenseman. It's the forwards too, and Lost and Kraus kind of sets that they need to play better team defense. It's not just on the two guys and the goalie. So I think it goes down all through the roster and they're going to figure out eventually. But yeah, I think the the court that they have now is not what most people would have projected in September.
So you reference some shuffling with some of the lines. So let's get let's get the detailed information there and do you know what it's going to look like, maybe starting as early as tonight.
Yeah, So per coach this morning, he said the first line will be Keller, Cooley, and Gunther, So Cooley is getting moved up to center that line, as is guntherer on the right wing, and then second line is supposed to be Mitchelli, Hayton and Schmaltz. Third line Kerfoot Bukestad and Kraus and you know, big return with buke Sad who played his first game this season last game after being injured for all of training camp, and then the
fourth line will be McBain, Stenlin and O'Brien. So big news tonight is that Josh Stone is a healthy scratch for the first time this season and O'Brien's coming in on the fourth line, So Michael Carconi will also be scratched. And then you so vallamachis scratch, so Wretusa will be in on the back end. But yeah, they really shuffled
it up. I talked to Kuley the other day and he kind of said, when teams aren't producing and guys aren't feeling their best, sometimes a mix up is just good mentally to feel like you have a refresher and then see what happened and worked for him last game he got his first of the season and he kind of gets the promotion to the first line now, so we'll see.
What it can do.
But Utah kind of stuck with the same lineup for the first six Fish games of the season, and I think at a certain point, when you're not scoring, it's on the coach to kind of see what he can get out of his lineup, and that's exactly what they've done here.
Let's move over to special teams first. I wanted to get your opinion on what you've seen on both the power play and then the power play kill. I mean that's another you know, killing power plays a year ago was not a strength of theirs. So are you seeing any improvement on the special team side? And do you know what the special team's lines are going to look like tonight?
Yeah?
I think you know, starting the season, the power play was a strength for Utah and it's really dwindled off a bit. A lot of the players have talked about it, and you can see it in the games. They're playing a lot more perimeter than they did before. They're kind of being pushed the outside ice and shooting from the point and the circles, which you know is great, But in this NHL, goaltenders are too good. Defense oon are too good. They'll get in the way, they'll block the shot,
they'll make the save. And I think when Utah had the most success this season was when they were battling for inside ice, when they were fighting for the crease. You know, Barrett Hayton had a great screen on Clayton Keller's goal right when the power play expired, and Logan Cooley did a good job of that, just getting in front and getting a tipping goal. And Coach has kind of preached getting the greasier, dirtier goals, and that's when
you know they have three to four goals tonight. So I think they need to start doing that on the power play again and kind of not looking for the perfect shot, but just getting it on net and going for the rebound. And with so power play units today in practice, the first film was Sergachev, Keller, Schmaltz, Hayton and Gunther, which is unchanged. You know, that's a pretty loaded first unit. And then the second unit is Kesslering, Machelli,
buke Sad, Kraus and Cooley. And that's a bit of a different look because Bukesad is back and also because Valla Macky is scratched. Kesslering will be running the point on the power play he did last game. He has a tremendous shot, one of the best, one of the defenseman on the team, I would say, so I think that's no worry with him up there and then for
the penalty kill. You know, I personally don't I worry less about the penalty kill than the power play because I think just the experience they have back there is great. You look at stenlan Kerfoot Bortuso, all of those guys have kind of earned a living blocking shots, winning defensive zone face offs and have that mileage that they know
what it takes and do or die situation. So I think the PK is less of a problem for Utah and you just need a score, Like if you're not scoring five on five, you're probably not scoring on the power play and vice versa. So I think once that offensive touch comes back for Utah, maybe that confidence will come back to the power play. But you know, it also comes to discipline. They've had to use their penalty kill a lot more than they've had to use their
power play with the amount of penalties they've taken. So you've got to put yourself in opportunities to be a man up and not be a man down. And I think that's something that the team is actively working on.
Are they getting what they need? Slash expected from Sergachev because it seems like he's extremely skilled for a defenseman as far as the ability to provide you know, assists. He hasn't scored a goal yet, but he has five assists. But back to the defensive issues. He was kind of the star signing of the offseason. Has he lived up to expectations in your opinion.
Bill, Yeah, I mean it's early, and I think you probably need at least I don't know fifteen twenty games that you're nearing, but I think Sergachev has been great and I think he's been what they need him to be, and he probably has taken on a lot more responsibility than he thought he was going to have. You know, the conversations coming into the season was can he be
the number one defenceman? Will he earn that role? And he has because of all the injuries they've had, and you know, there were two games where they went down to five defenceman when Jersey was out, Virtuso got hurt and Sergachev logged almost thirty minutes of ice time for both of those games. And he's continued, even with six defensemen, to log around twenty five plus a night. So that
part of that is he's used in all situations. You know, he'll be on the power play, he can slodd in on the penalty kill, he's on the first pair, he's kind of orchestrating offense from the top. But then he also is the first one back. So I think his versatility kind of forces him to be on the ice for that amount of time. And I think something that sticks out with him is even if he's logging all those miles, his play doesn't really dip.
You know.
It could be his first minute on the ice or his twenty second in the third period, and his his level of play and his compete level kind of remains the same. And that's something that is not true for a lot of defensemen who have to log that much time. You know, you just simply get tired. But we talked to Sergachev and he said he's really embracing it. It's his chance to be a leader on this team, and he said it's kind of helping him get his confidence back.
You know, he suffered a really brutal injury last year, breaking his leg, and it takes a second to get back into the season and lose that fear of getting injured again. And he said the more he plays, the more comfortable he feels. Not only just as a hockey player, but within the Utah system. So I think he's kind of doing everything he can to lift that blue line and the goals will come. I think that's something everyone's
confident about. You're not really nervous about Surgachev hitting a slump because if he's not scoring with the puck, his work away from it is helping the team win in different ways.
So I think we all could agree with the following statement. Probably not as good as they started the season, and probably not as bad as they've been over the past four or five games. So it is early. It is nine games, but through the first nine, what are you confident bell in saying that you really do know about this team got off to a hot start, have leveled off in the truth as it normally is, is probably somewhere.
In the middle.
Yeah, yeah, no, totally. I think it's not surprising. You knew with a team like this, a young team that's still trying to figure out all the pieces that there, it's going to be a mixed bag. It's going to be up and down.
But something that's.
Really stuck out to me over you know, this losing streak and even during the winning streak, is the maturity in the room and how they're handling this adversity. I think maybe in Arizona the past few years when the leaders on that team are only what twenty three, twenty four, twenty five at that time. Now those guys are twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, and even the young guys like gun thro and Cooley and McBain, they kind of just have a good mindset and head on their shoulders right now.
And they came out of that Colorado game and no one was like, oh, it's early in the season, like you're going to lose sometimes at home. Oh well, like every single guy saying that's unacceptable, that is not Utah hockey. That's not what we're here to do. We have to learn from it and we have to grow from it. So I think that kind of just says a lot about, you know, where the team has come from and not
getting frustrated with themselves. And I think you saw that in the Ottawa game too, when they lost for nothing. Even though they weren't able to score in those forty minutes after they gave out those four goals, they were pushing. It was never you know, breaking sticks. Bad attitude on the bench kind of throwing the game away because they were down four. I mean, they were fighting for a goal until that last minute. And I think that's what
you want to see from a team if they're losing. Okay, everyone's going to lose in the NHL, but it's what are they taking from those losses, what are they trying to improve on, and how are they viewing kind of
those role in those losses. So I think, yeah, big theme has been maturity and accountability in a room that had to grow that, you know, from the ground up in Arizona, and I think it'll help them get out of the thread and help them down the stretch, hopefully when they're able to start stringing someones together.
I saw that you wrote about the debut of Maverick Lameoureau, the twenty year old man. So young, twenty year old defenceman who made his debut last week. Unpack that piece for us bell. Tell our listeners what you learned about this young kid.
Yeah, I mean from day one when he came to practice. So he got called up. They called him right before he went to bed in Arizona and he's on a six am flight the next morning, shows up to Utah practice that same morning, off of like four hours of sleep, and he was probably the most lively guy there and in the media scrum, you know, he's just so happy, so smiley, laughing, jumping around, is so happy to be in the NHL. And he didn't know at that point if he was making his debut, but he was just
so grateful for the opportunity. And what's really interesting about him. You know, Sean Jersey's out with the shoulder surgery. And I talked about this in the story, but before he turned twenty, or by the time he turned twenty, he underwent two shoulder surgeries. So he has had to deal with that four to six month rehab twice. The prime years of his development. He was injured in his draft year.
Then he was injured in the time when you're trying to make a push in the juniors or NCAA or in the HL to show the franchise you were drafted by that you're kind of ready to go and be a difference maker in the organization. So he's had to battle back from a lot of that, and I think it shows in his work ethic on the ice. You know, he's six foot six, almost two hundred pounds and he skates. I talked to one of his strength trainers this summer. He said, he skates like he's five foot ten, but
he's six foot six. And I think that's really unique about him and what Utah fans have been able to see that he's this big, physical body, but he's kind of fleet footed. He can score, he's responsible. That's something he's really been saying that he just wants the team to be able to trust him even though he's younger.
And you know finality too. He was saying he grew out his He's been trying to grow out his mustache and his beard so he can look more like a pro because he's only twenty playing against these older guys. He said his dad told him to shave it, but he was like, no, I have to try to fit in. So I think that's something that Utah fans get with a developing team, is that with injuries and stuff like that, you're going to see some of their prospects from the
AHL get to come up and have their opportunities. And you know, it's nothing's cooler than getting to see a kid's dream come true. And that's exactly what it was for Utah this week, and you know, coach said, sometimes that does something for the room. It's a little reminder for everyone to, you know, remember where they came from and remember what a privilege it is to play in
the NHL. So I think that's been a bright spot for Utah and we'll kind of see how how long he can pull this pro stint off for well.
Before I said you lose, I wonder what your opinion is on how the building has felt. I mean, I was there Opening night and it was awesome, and I've watched the rest of the games on television. I know you're there. What do you make of the type of support that this club is getting so far here in Sol Lake.
I don't think anything has compared to Opening Night. That was a really special night, you know, sell out. The crowd was insane. It was super loud. Every play it felt like they were ready to explode. I would say the Bruins game, there were a lot of Bruins fans randomly, a lot of Utah Natives are Bruins fans, so it was kind of split for that, and then the last
two games. You know, it's still full, but I think the energy has teetered off maybe a little, which is fair if your team is shut out one night and scores one goal with five minutes left in the third period the next night. So you know, I think the fan support is obviously still there. People are still interested. But the players have all talked about it. Nick Bugsad talked about it today. They need to give people something
to cheer about and something to be invested in. And the way to create that tradition and culture of Utah hockey is winning. And so that's something I think they're really aware of, is that they need to put a good product on the ice for people to want to support the Utah Hockey Club and make this a premiere NHL city. So it's definitely not missed on them. But yeah,
I would say opening night set standards pretty high. I don't know if the building has been that loud since that night, but it's loud every night, you know, and it's definitely a step up from what they were dealing with last year. So I think they appreciate the fan support, whether it's a sellout where the upper bowl is kind of scattered.
Bell, thanks so much for the time, Keep up the great work. You're very helpful. For all of us as we learn this new sport here in our market and have a great week. We'll chat soon, Okay, thank you, all right. Belle Frasier covers the Utah Hockey Club for the Salt Lake Tribune. Get her on Twitter at Belle Fraser. One is where you find her. A really cool piece on Maverick Lamreau his debut with the hockey club last week and seems like a great kid. Trying to grow
out a beard, so he looks old. He's only twenty years old. Get back to some college football.
Coming up in a bit.
Scott Mitchell stops five, one of the best ever do it at the U. Longtime NFL VET. We're going to bring Scott in a little bit later. Riso gets their postseason, hopefully postseason. Ron started tomorrow night against Minnesota here in our market and started things off a little hockey, but no outside for some basketball. The Jazz are zero to two. They've lost their first couple of games there in Dallas.
Tonight time for the NBA Daily Assist with our guy Tom Haberstrow on a Monday, tom Happy Monday.
Buddy, How are you doing doing great man? How are you?
I'm well I'm well, so we have a lot of teams that are losing right now in our market. Utah football is not great hockey team three straight. But the one team that I'm on board with the losing is the Jazz. Okay, so I don't know if they're actually doing this by design, but through two games, you know, there were some decent moments against Memphis, marketing was really good.
They get smoked by Golden State. Is there a chance they're finally leaning in to a full you know, I'll just say it a full tank in order to kind of expedite the rebuild with maybe a Cooper flag or something like it next draft.
Until Larry Markinin is sidelined with some sort of load management. No, I don't think that they're trying to lose this badly. I think it's just a bad case of they hit a shot and the other team is just everybody looks like Steph Curry out there. What Buddy Heal did against the Blazers the other day and then what he did against the Jazz, you would think that he is the greatest shooter of all time, and it's just this is life in the NBA. It's a young team, Cante George
still struggling to figure things out. It's another year.
You know.
Scoot Henderson's another young point guard in his sophomore year and at times he's struggling to hit his jumper from downtown. But Cante George, we thought he was going to be better at this in terms of his long distance shooting, and he's shown moments that he is a really talented shooter. Hasn't been able to get it together. But marking In is that dude until he is sidelined for any sort of period. I am gonna say that they're not trying
to lose this badly. But when the Golden State Warriors are going to look like that, it's really hard to beat anybody.
No, for sure. And you reference Kyante. So look, every time either Xanik or Age has an opportunity to address the media, they pretty much hammer the same point home, which is developments, development of our young players, and believing in our coach and believing in this process. So what should Jazz fans look for to indicate whether or not the development is going well? Because you referenced it, and look,
it's only two games. We're just trying to make some topics here out of a couple of basketball games, which is always tricky, but we have data now dating back to college of Kyante just not being a good shooter. I mean, I know it sounds simplistic, but he didn't knock down a high percentage in college. He didn't as
a rookie. He was three of eighteen against Memphis, and so if the development is working, He's four of twelve against Golden State, so obviously not a good start as far as shot making five turnovers against the Warriors as well. If the development is working over there, what should Jazz fans look forward to indicate that things are up with some of these young players.
Well, I'll just put it like this.
Over in Portland, Scoot Henderson has twenty two shots at the rim restricted area. So that's that area right, like a two to three feet inside the basket area. He has twenty two shots. He's getting to the cup. Do you know how many shots in the restricted area? Can't say George has so far this season?
Doesn't feel like a lot, would be my guest.
Zero.
I didn't know it was zero.
Like that, wow, zero.
He's got zero shots at the rim in the two games, and that's worrisome for me beyond like the long distance shooting that isn't there yet in two games. If your ability to get to the rack, what separates Shake Gilgris Alexander, what separates John Moran, what separates Daron Fox, What separates even Steph Curry with his great three point shot very underrated at his finishing around the rim? You got to
get there. That is an elite level skill that after a season of being a point guard in the NBA, you have to have at least one, you know, And so that for me.
Is the biggest thing.
Is your ability to get to the rack is a premier skill as a point guard. In order to be an upper echelon point guard and lead guy in the NBA, you got to get to the cup. And so far this season, according to NBA dot Com shooting data, kant George has zero attempts at the rim. Now, he's three of eleven in the paint, but not at the rim area. So maybe you can say that these floaters should be considered layups, but it is it is alarming to me that Kant George through two games does not have a
single shot or a layup so far this season. So I'm not expecting him to be Jama. I'm not expecting him to be Russell Westbrook, prime Russell Westbrook or prime Derrick Rose. But that's going to be something that I'm going to track going forward. Is his ability to get to the rack. And yes, he's getting to the free throw line, so some of those attempts aren't being counted because he might be getting fouled at the rim and
negates the miss free field goal attempt. But I do think that when other players like Scood Henderson who are about the same age are getting to the cup twenty two times in three games, it should be at least one attempt at the rim for Kiance.
Yeah.
I mean, like I said when you ask the question, because I've watched every minute of every game, you know, both games, it didn't seem like it would be a lot,
but I did not know it was zero. This is year three for Walker Walker Kessler, So I'm going to continue to kind of track his progress because, like I've just asked you about Keyante, if the Jazz are asking us to watch this development take place a year three, Walker Kessler is going to be a bit of a case study because he's had time in the league, and so far it's been pretty good. He was really good
against Memphis. Zach Edy, who played in one hundred and thirty eight college basketball games and only filed out once, filed out in fifteen minutes, and Walker was kind of the main impetus there. He also had fourteen boards. And you know, the Golden State game is tough to measure because they were just getting smoked and so essentially a lot of guys just sat. Walker only played twenty minutes. But I'll kind of ask you the same question, what should year three look like for Walker Kesler.
Well, it should be more than twenty five minutes a game. I think for him it's the ability to play deeper into games and proving that you don't get into foul trouble. But he's not getting into foul trouble, and yet he's only playing twenty five minutes so far. I would like to see him as an elite center who I think was on track to be a kind of in the same profile as Rudy Gobert. He's still not able to be trusted for huge minutes.
Now.
You know, Markinen and Cante George have only played sixty one over those two games, so they're playing just over thirty minutes. But I still like to see Kessler playing a little bit more higher minutes, especially because he hasn't been in foul trouble. But also, you know, it is a little unnerving to see that the team with the second highest field goal percentage at the rim is Utah Jazz. Seventy four percent of the shots at the rim are going in and that's the second highest for any defense.
In the NBA.
That's not what you want to see from a team that employees Walker Kessler. That is, you know, one of the best shot blockers in the game in terms of just pure shot blocking. But rim protection is more than that. As you know from watching Rudy Gobert for all these years. It's not just about the block shots. It's also about the shots that don't get taken in the rim area.
You're preventing your deterring shots at the rim. But so far this season, the Utah Jazz have allowed seventy four percent shooting and the restricted area, which is the second highest in the league. So you can't build a good defense around preventing shots at the rim. And even though it's a high number seventy four percent. Maybe you're minimizing the attempts and so you're preventing those shots at the rim.
And yes, sometimes they break through in transition, but you're not seeing that rim protection or rim deterrence like you would hope. And so I think Walker, maybe it's just a tough couple of games here in the opening of the season, but I would like to see that rim protection stat be a little bit better for Walker.
So I was curious to see because, as you know, Tom, you've been doing this forever. Coaches just want to win now. They don't have any interest in, you know, losing a bunch of games that goes on their track record for no matter where Will Hardy goes, he's gonna have a lot of l's on his resume as a result of being a part of this project. Now they picked up his fifth year, so next year will be year four.
They already have that option picked up. They announced like two weeks ago you're good, okay, so you're picked up through year five. It's a lot like what Danny did in Boston with Brad Stevens. So he's in the room, he's part of the deal. He knows kind of what
time it is with the youth on his roster. But I was really curious to see because Will and Patty Mills know each other from San Antonio, and Patty Mills is an NBA champ, and you know he's thirty six, so we no what's expecting very much, But I was curious to see what Will would do during Keyante's inevitable struggles as a young player who's been tasked as the league guard here and against Memphis, you know, Patty played
sixteen minutes. He didn't take a shot, he didn't take a free throw, he had one board, he had one assist. But they were plus ten in patty sixteen minutes as a team, and they were minus eleven in Keyant's thirty one. As as Will decided to kind of go with Patty Mills a little bit to see if he could get a veteran and at work, the ball started popping, the ball started moving. Keyante, tom there's a little Donovan there, like he sometimes can get a little ball dominant instead
of being more decisive and quick with his decisions. And then Golden State Utah got smoked. But in Patty's eighteen minutes, they were minus four in Kyante's thirty minutes, they're minus thirty seven. So what do you make of that dynamic of a coach who simply wants to win and wants to win now, but tasks with development And do you think we're going to see, you know, will allow Kyante to continue to learn with these mistakes or is he going to try to play some vets to get more wins?
What do you think?
Yeah, So in year three of the Brad Stevens head coaching gig over at Boston, they were a forty eight win team. Forty eight win team, so they were one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. They lost in the first round, but they had Isaiah Thomas All Star twenty two points per game, which I guess you could put market in in the same category. But they also had some vets in.
There that were good.
They had a young team, for sure, but he had some guys who could really play and play right now, I'm not so sure you have the same caliber of players on this roster for Will Hardy, no matter who he is, he's prime, Greg Popovich, I don't think this team is going to be a forty eight win team. And in order to be a Michelin star chef. You
have to have Michelin star ingredients. And so I think, you know, Patty Mills is at the end of his career, and for him to lean on Patty Mills for more than ten minutes a game is going to be tough. And so, you know, sometimes you look at a guy and say, you got to play him to learn through your mistakes. But then you see Mark hel Foltz get washed out of the league in four years. You see Anthony Bennett number one overall pick wash out of the
league in four years. There's a lot of guys who were expected to be great right away and just didn't have it and washed out of the league. And so as much as we'd like to say that this is a noble thing that we got to let these guys play through their mistakes, there comes a point, a tipping point in which you're hurting your team and the morale of the club because there's other guys who are more
capable who are sitting on the bench. I don't know if Patty Mills is that guy, but you know, just like Eric Bolster with Udonis Hasmitz, it is good to have these veterans who have won championships who've been in winning organizations to be around to, you know, give a sense of professionalism and a sense of winning character and having the right habits in the locker room. And you know, I remember Eric Bolsh was telling me once why he had Juwan Howard as a player even though he barely
played at the end of his bench. And He's like, because his message carries a lot more weight when it's a player, When it's a guy in a uniform saying the same thing that I'm going to say. But when it's a player saying that, the young guy seem to listen a little bit more or they're just gonna it's going to reach them a little bit deeper if one of their teammates is saying the very same message that the coach does. So I do think this value in having Patty Mills on the team beyond just his minutes
on the floor. But you got to see some some better production from George because you know this is there's I mean, I guess you could say Jordan Clarson could play backup point guard and steal some minutes from Cante. But I do think that it's a tough thing for
will Hardy this organization. I think would be smart movie wise to see what they can get for their veterans and try to see, you know, what you can get for John Collins or what you can get for a guy like Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton and see if you can get some draft picks. Because you know, when you look at the trajectory, you said it, Brad Stevens. Brad Stevens didn't get Jalen Brown until year four. Year
five is when he got Jason Tatum. So we like to think that Brad Stevens went through years of struggle to get those guys, but it's true four year four and year five is when they got two. And I think that's what Danny Age is pointing to and saying, like you will and the rest of the guys, we're trying to get our Victor Webbin Yama, We're trying to get our Jason Tatum. It just might be another year or two.
All right, one more jazz question and then we will move along to some other topics that's going on around the basketball world right now. That's more interesting than what we're gonna watch here all year. I wonder so, and you know, obviously, as you know we're in this new CBA reality. A lot of people just to kind of be reductive, draw the parallel of Adam Silver, trying to make this look a little bit more like the NFL with parody.
Right.
I don't think he loves that parallel, but it's too obvious to not bring up, which, if you expand it and if we use our imagination at the end of the day, is good news for a team that plays in a city that most NBA players don't seem to want to either move here to play for the Jazz or even come here to play for the other team
against the Jazz, Like we know the deal. So you know, we've already seen a couple of teams adversely affected by the second apron stuff Denver the clips, you know, some others losing talent, and it does seem like draft picks are going to be very valuable moving forward now this year, the take home from the Mitchell and go Bear trade start to come in, so three first round picks, you know, for the next few years, and also really clean books and Xanak and Age have been very deliberate in their
approach here, So we could create a scenario Tom where the Jazz are a team that could capitalize by calling a team that is looking to shed some money and talent and offering them some picks and maybe some cap relief. Look, we're two games in, so I'm laughing as I ask you this, But do you anticipate any teams looking to shed legitimate talent as soon as this season? And do you think the Jazz could be buyers because of their treasure troves treasure trove of assets.
I would bet against that. I think Danny Age is looking at ad picks rather than give him up. But you're looking at teams like the Chicago Bulls with Zach Levine. Do you want to take on that contract going forward to basically compete at and play a be a five hundred team. I'm not sure. He's got two more years on his deal at forty six million and forty nine million dollars, uh, the player option in his final year. Is that a guy that you want to add to
your team? You know, Chicago probably would want to figure out a way to get off of Nicole Vucevic if their season is in the tank and he's due for another year at twenty one million dollars.
Is that something you want to do.
If you're the Utah Jazz, I think the other team that you look at is the Milwaukee Bucks. Janni Sandatokompo is already, you know, saying some crazy quotes to reporters in the preseason, telling Sam Amick, you know, joking basically looking around his staff and saying, oh, are you gonna if things? If we lose or you're gonna get five?
Are you going to get traded?
And my eyes, my third eye was open on that one because this is a new ownership in Milwaukee, and I do think that other teams like Golden State, like you know, San Antonio, like Okac, like Utah are watching. That's that situation very closely. Is if that becomes more combustible they're in Giannis's world? Does he demand some sort of trade or try to get out of there. Damian Lillard's same question, but again, where the roster is at
right now. If you acquire Damian Lillard and take on that contract and you're nowhere near contending, is it going to be the same situation where he's in right now, where he's like, I don't I want to win right now. I don't want to spend the last years of my career on a five hundred team. I just don't see what team right now has both the player that could move the Utah Jazz into title.
Contention or you know, whether they're willing to.
Give up draft pick to make that deal happen, because I think the Utah Jayds are gonna be looking for draft picks rather than giving him up.
All right, moving off the Jazz, now, let's get to Oh, yeah, since you brought it up and you're working with the Blazers, now, at what point are we a little concerned about Scoot player who I really like during the draft process and Portland's you know, kind of in the same stratosphere as the Jazz this year with pretty low expectations. But where are you at right now as far as your concern level of Scoot with us? Scoot Henderson, he's getting to the cup.
Like I said, he's number three in the NBA among guards in getting to the cup. He's he's getting to the free throw line. There is a real skill there. The jump shot hasn't really paid dividends. And that's another thing. Like if you want to be Darren Fox and we're going to be broadcasting the game tonight against the Sacramento Kings, and I'm going to be watching, you know, like if he wants to have that same burst as Russell Westbrook
Darn Fox in the open court. The real reason why Daron Fox made the leap is because of that jumper, right is because he became a knockdown shooter, and so that's the missing part of the game that he hasn't shown yet this season. But you know, he's the same
age as Kiance George. He just you know, turned twenty last year, turning twenty one in February, and so I'm probably going to hold out on, you know, any sort of referendum on Scoot Henderson until next year because not too many twenty year olds in the NBA, especially at point guard, are great right away. There's a very short list. Caiance George is not on that list yet. Scoot Henderson
isn't on that list yet. But in terms of one identifiable skill is he gets to the rim all the time, and he had nine free throws in last night's game, and I do think that that is a veritable skill that he can build off of, and hopefully that jump shot rounds out into form, because he would be deadly as a player if he had a reliable Jay.
How real, Tom, is what we've seen from the Lakers so far? You know, every once in a while you get an Anthony Davis game and you're like, oh, yeah, that's why there were several people, well when he came out of school, you know, that were tabbing him as a generational city, generationally special player. And his deal has always been availability. He was actually pretty healthy last year. I just don't think he gets enough credit for it. And obviously Lebron is still Lebron even at that age.
But three games under JJ Reddick and they're clean. How real is this? In your opinion?
Have you seen the free throw totals in the NBA this year?
I have not studied them as closely as somebody like you. I can guarantee that.
Yeah.
John Hollinger wrote great piece at The Athletic today saying that through five days in the NBA schedule, free throws are up fifty All right, sorry, free throws are up twenty plus percent. So you're adding, basically, you know, an additional handful of free throws every game, and that was
something that they were pulling back last year. I covered that at Tom Thefinder dot com that the NBA was basically the referees were swallowing their whistle and letting a lot of high contact go through and play on a lot more physical in the playoffs. But Anthony Davis has been a huge beneficiary of this. I guess easier whistle. They're not swallowing it. They're blowing that whistle like crazy. In the early season, he's averaging fifteen free throws per
game in his first three games. Now, that's a product of the fact that guys can't stop them. Minnesota, Phoenix, Sacramento, they haven't been able to stop them. Inside he is attacking the rim and they have no choice but to fallum. Maybe, but fifteen free throws a game is outrageous, And so I don't know what how much longer this free throw surge that we're seeing is gonna last. But Anthony Davis, what he's doing right now is even like peak James
Harden levels of falvating. Fifteen free throws per game is outrageous. And if he's going to be anywhere near there, you know, in his career he's a route seven or eight free throws a game, He's gonna be an MVP if he maintained anywhere near ten, eleven, twelve free throws because that's Joel Embiid's territory. So if he's Joel Embiid's territory and getting to the free throw line, yeah.
He's going to be an MVP in today's NBA.
And JJ Reddick, I don't know what he said to him, but this, this version of Ahany Davis for sure is an MVP caliber player.
So are we witnessing maybe the end of a really really special stretch in Denver? I mean, you know the Westbrook thing. For me, he's going to take a lot of heat and he's not, you know, the main impetus for their two losses. I just don't love that fit. I don't know that I would love to fit with him anywhere anymore. And a former MVP certainly deserves respect and he's probably gonna go to the Hall of Fame
and all that stuff. But you know, Jokic is such a delight and a joy to watch that it kind of feels a little Andrew Luck with the Colts ish, like, are they going to waste the remaining time you know of his prime? What do you make of the slow start that we've seen from the Nuggets.
In Russell westbergus shooting two at eighteen.
Two of eighteen.
The offensive rating when he's on the floor is seventy, which is by far the lowest. There's no one under ninety points per one hundred possessions when a player's on the floor minimum twenty minutes a game. Russell Westbrook is the only player under ninety. When he's on the floor, the offensive rating plummets to about seventy.
So think about that.
No other player when they're on the floor has an offensive rating. The team's scoring rate is below ninety points every one hundred possessions, and Russell Westbrook when he's on the floor it's at about seventy. So that's how bad it is so far through two games. I sent the alarm bells. I rang the alarm bells in the preseason when he was taking about eight threes per thirty six minutes and he was making them. But the thing that was worrisome was the volume.
I was like, what are they doing.
They can't have Russell Westbrook, who's the worst high volume three point shooter in NBA history, taking threes like he's Michael Porter junior.
But that's what was.
Happening, and they got drunk off of the idea that he somehow had figured out this jump shot after an entire careers worth of evidence that he's not a good three point shooter. And this guy is, you know, just bricking three point shots left and right. He's not finishing at the rim.
He in the.
Preseason he wasn't either, And so I was like, Yo, this Denver Nuggets experiment is going to go south quickly.
And even though they were a five star.
Title contender in my title tiers that I do every week at the end of last season, I downgraded them to three stars at the outset of the preseason because of the rest of westbrook acquisition and performance on the preseason, and I just this morning I downgraded them again to a two star level title contender.
This is a crime.
You got Nikola Jokic in your prime and this is your bench. This your anchor for your bench is Russell Westbrook. But then you look around and you got Peyton Watson, who's one for ten from the floor as a bench player for UH, for the youth, for the Sorry the Denver Nuggets. Kevin O'Connor just put out a tweet my co host on the Kevin O'Connor show once a week at Yahoo Sports. He was tweeting just how putrid the
offense is without Jokic on the floor. This is the last the last stage of Jokic playing nice and not being disgruntled as a superstar and saying I need better players. He is the only MVP through his nine years in the league, the only MVP in NBA history that has never played with an All Star or an All NBA or an All Defensive member on his team in nine years. That is unconscionable from the organization. They need to get
him a co star befitting of his talents. He has the weakest supporting cast up to this point in his career of anybody, any MVP, and that's got to change at some point if it continues like this. I suspect that Jokic his nice guy. I just want to be out there and play basketball. That whole thing. I think it's going to.
End SI all right, Tom, before I say you loose, I really am curious to see how Tom Thibodeau handles this kind of new look roster at his disposal, what the rotations look like, and whether or not he can make it work, and you know, the Celtics just might be historically special, like in an era of what is supposed to be parody. Boston might just destroy it because they're really, really that good. And then they got a good win against the Pacer team that also early on
doesn't look very good. So before I say you loose early returns two games New York Knicks, Kat, how do you think it's looking.
Yeah, I wrote about it today. It's tomdfinder dot com. They're zigging, well, everyone's zagging. I mean they are slowing the ball down. They are playing at a nineties pace. They're bringing back the nineties. I mean it is insane what they're doing in terms of like the NBA's throwing up threes. They're playing up tempo. That's the modern NBA.
Tom Thibodeau is getting in his DeLorean and going back in time to nineties where he was an assistant under Jeff Van Gundy, because right now they have the slowest pace in the NBA. They are a team that goes deep into the clock almost every time down the floor, and they're not shooting a high volume of threes. Even though they got Kat, who's the greatest three point shooting big man in NBA history self proclaimed. By the way, they're not getting up a ton of three pointers and
their roster depth is very thin. So maybe this team is built for playoff basketball. But it's October and they got to do eighty two games of this very slow, very methodical offense and hope that they are healthy. That's the thing, is, like they just got to make the playoffs, and their team had their rosters very top heavy. They got like six really good players. They just got to stay healthy. Honestly, that's my main mission is Yet they're slow, they don't chuck up a lot of threes like the
rest of the NBA. They play a throwback nineties basketball. But they got the most important person on that staff is not Karl Anthony Towns or Jalen Brunson or mckel Bridges or Ognanov or Tom Thibodeau. It's their medical staff. They gotta say healthy and they got to make sure that they're ready for the playoffs, because that was the biggest thing that kept them out of the Eastern Conference finals last year is their health. And they gotta hope.
In Tom Thibodeau's long history of injury problems that that does not the injury bug does not spike up again, because that's the number one biggest factor in making sure that they're going to reach their potential, to making sure those top six guys, including Juce McBride, who's looks awesome, are healthy come April and may I Tom.
Where can everybody go find all of your work? You are a busy.
Boy, yeah, and a dad and a husband on top of that. So Tomdfinder dot com is my substack. You can read my columns at Yahoo sports dot com and also catch The Big Number, my new podcast every Thursday with Dan Devine, as well as the Trailblazers Analytics Insider everydcast. If you want to catch us on League Pass, you should. Scoot is very interesting as a comp for Keyance George if you want to just watch how those two guys develop.
Going this season.
I am on the Blazers broadcast as well this year, so you can catch me on there for the Sacramento Kings game.
Thank you, my friend. Have a great week. Okay, you got it?
Thanks Bett?
All right, the great Tom Havers Show every Monday dropping some NBA Daily knowledge on us on the NBA Daily Assist. Appreciate his time. Today, we're gonna do a little RSL with Matt Crooks in the four o'clock hour, and then we're gonna do Utah football. Scott Mitchell coming up next. We're gonna give you our Big twelve Power Rankings. Yeah, I'm sorry, we have to. It's it's a Monday.
It's Monday afternoon.
After another exciting college football weekend, settle in a Spence gives you this week's edition of the Big Twelve Power Rankings, brought to you by the Murdock Auto Group and Genesis of Linden.
All right, well, buckle up, kids, drop in, lock in. I appreciate Cavon's excitement in that sounder, but was it really another exciting college football weekend for folks around these parts or some? All right, well, I had to rank all sixteen teams because you need space for the two teams in our states that are in the Big twelve. Did you go as deep as I did? Did you go all the way to sixteen? I did not. I'll leave that to you. I'll just do.
And there's a real line of delineation starting to appear in the Big Twelve, which is kind of how things play out the back half of the season. So I at least ranked the nine team spence that have what is really a mathematical opportunity to get to a Big twelve championship game.
Well, fire away, young man, we'll let you lead off.
At the bottom of that list is West Virginia. Yeah, they're fine. They're better than I thought they would be actually, But they're at the bottom of this list at number nine. ASU right there with them, they're five and two. There are three and two in conference play. I just don't see many scenarios where they're in it at the end. That is also the case with Texas Tech and TCU, as well as Cincinnati, who comes in at number five. They are the bottom team that really does have an
opportunity to win it at the Big twelve level. It is Cincinnati coming in at number five. I just those are the team spence that are in the hunt, if you will, without, in my opinion, a real shot at winning the Big twelve at Cincinnati, TCU, Texas Tech, ASU
in West Virginia. After that you can get into what I believe will be and as of today, the kind of final four of the conference so far, Colorado coming in at number four Obviously, what Dion has done in a calendar year and a half almost two years at Colorado is remarkable. I still think that there are some issues with this stainability, with staying power with whatever Colorado looks like without Deon Sanders. I think it's a conversation that will need to be had in those offices in
the near future. But as of right now, they are playing really good football. They come in at number four. At number three, they just got over what shouldn't have been a real tough matchup, but similarly to what BYU will be facing in their next matchup, it's a rivalry game, so it changes the the pressure that is on that game. Kansas State gets over Kansas which I think was a big hump on the remainder of their schedule, and coming in at number three, it is Kansas State with one asterix.
I think Kansas State ends up playing in the Big twelve title game, even though as of today they are my number three team at number two. Only reason I don't have them at number one is because of the defense that I see in ames Iowa. Why you a top ten team as of today? Spence in college football and the Cougars control their own destiny going forward.
In Big Twelve play.
Of course, a big test coming into Rice Cycle Stadium in a couple of weeks, but we'll a lot more on that as the time comes along. And at number one, I think it's the best defense in the Big Twelve. I still think that there are questions that they need to answer on the offensive side of the football. This is an Iowa State team spence that I think had a I don't want to say easier first half of the schedule, but when you look at their slate, the last month is when things really get tough for them.
They got to go on the road, they've got ranked matchups, they've they've got all the big ones on the back half of their schedule. The front half of their schedule, it was kind of just getting over Iowa in that rivalry game. They did that, they had a couple of buys and they eight as of Week eight, Week nine, are still unblemished in Big twelve play. Along with BYU, they are the top two teams on my Power rankings today. But again I mentioned I think Kansas State ends up
playing in that Big twelve title game. We'll see how that plays out in the next calendar.
Month. So according to ESPN's Football Power Index, k State right now is the best team of the Big Twelve.
That's kind of where I'm I'm basing my thoughts right It's not only that, it's also how they looked against BYU versus the final score of that game. That was a much closer football games. You go back and watch the tape in the trenches. It was a dogfight and the final score did not end up looking like the actual game did.
Yeah, it's interesting because the FPI doesn't necessarily reflect what the standings reflect the FPI. For ESPN to win the Big Twelve, it's k State one, Iowa State two, Colorado three, and Brigham Young four. They have Utah all the way down at four team excuse me, thirteen in the Big Twelve, the FPI of the fifty fourth ranked team in the country. So obviously it has been a really, really rough season for coach Wit and the guys up on the hill.
I'll just run through mine real quick. I actually moved BYU up to one going on the road. They've answered every question that has been asked of them, So rise and shout. The Cougars are out at number one atop the table with the Big twelve Power rankings. I, like Porter, has been very impressed with Iowa State and excited to see,
you know, that game coming up. I will see what's at stake, if anything's at stake at all for Utah, which I doubt at this point, there will you know, there will be any ramifications, but there in town on November the twenty third. It's the final home game for Utah football this year. So I have iwas stated too
like Porter, I'm very impressed with Case State. I have them at three, and you've got to give Dion coach prim a ton of credit with what he's done down in Boulder, and they continue to roll, you know, in conference play. They got a home win over a pretty solid Cincinnati team, and like Brigham Young, I think Colorado has deserved some bragging rides here. I have them at four. Aforementioned Cincinnati is five. Baylor has been a lot better.
David Random might have saved a job here. They rise to six in my poll this week, TCUs at seven. I have West Virginia at eight, Texas Tech at nine. Arizona State had to buys, but I did move them down to ten. Just kind of crowded in the middle here, and then we move over to Texas Tech Arizona. Excuse me, UCF, I moved them up a slot. They actually fired their defensive coordinator after their loss to BYU Kansas. Is weird because they've actually played in a ton of really close games.
You know.
It's kind of like the way we talked about BYU last year in the Big Twelve. They had like four or five one possession games late they didn't go their way, you know, overtime losses and such. But you know, fact matter is they're two and six, one and four and Big Twelve play have them at twelve. I have Arizona at thirteen, and I cannot believe I'm saying this. I have Houston at fourteen, and then two of the three favorites to win the Big Twelve are at the bottom
of the Big twelve power rankings. Today, I have Utah at fifteen and Oklahoma State, who has not won a conference game, at sixteen. I mean, Porter, I'll reiterate what I said earlier during cross talk with Sean and trying to get things rolling on the show today. I get things wrong. It happens in the business. You know, you like to be right but sometimes you're not. I don't know that I've ever been more wrong about anything in this business than I have been about Utah football this year.
I just I'm out of explanations.
It's perplexing, it is, but as you mentioned, there is a lot of a lot of context around it, right, it does seem like the wheels have fallen off, but it just seems like a weird year in the conference as well. It's not limited to just Utah. Oklahoma State kind of dealing with a similar thing in Stillwater. And these are two not only the two of the teams that were picked to pete for the conference Spence, but also the two most stable and long standing like programs
in the conference. Right, So it's surprising on a number of fronts, including that one. And yeah, man, I don't know where the youths to turn, where the youths have to turn right now, because the answers to me aren't there personnel wise, they're not on the roster. And what you have to do then is well, recruit other players, get other people on your staff, figure things out. Obviously
we've already seen some changes. Don't need to maybe be wholesale, but something's got to happen between now and the next time.
Utah wins a football game.
Otherwise that's going to be a long time down the road.
The kick time has been announced for byu Utah. Unfortunately, it is going to be at eight to fifteen November the ninth, So you're gonna expect both teams healthy and both teams ready to go. But man, it is really everything is. As I said last week, it's like Seinfeld bizarro world. Everything is, you know, the opposite of what we were expecting all year. So we'll see. I don't see if there are any changes. You know, we're gonna do the song and dance now with the quarterback stuff
with Isaac Wilson and Brandon Rose. I'm sure it will not be announced he b yu on their heels and then we'll find out, you know, when they run out to take the field. All right, let's welcome in my guy Doug from Farmer and Chemist Doug. Happy Monday, sir.
How are you good afternoon? I'm doing well, Thank you.
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We'll rainfalling in downtown Salt Lake earlier, but the sun is shining now. It's tough Monday for a lot of sports fans in our market because a lot of the teams are not playing well and they're losing games. But RSL is right now kind of our only hope BYU football playing really well. But RSL they're back out of coming up tomorrow hopefully starting what will look like a very long playoff push. And our next guest friend of the program, good to have Matt Crooks back on the drive. Matt,
Happy Monday, buddy. How are you doing hell.
Well?
I appreciate your time, so you guys chomping it the bit you're ready to get out of tomorrow.
Yeah, we're excited. I guess this is where the season really starts for us, and these games have come with a bit more pressure now, but it's it's an exciting time to be playing and just see what the future brings.
For sure, and you know, I want to start a big picture and then we'll kind of hone in a little bit in a vacuum. But now that you have been here for a number of months and you've played a number of matches for Pablo, I just wanted to kind of revisit how your Utah experience has been, you know, how you lik it around here.
Yeah, it's been great. You know, it's been a totally new experience for me, totally different culture to I mess myself, and I've tried to do that to the best of my ability, of different nationalities to play with their own kind of playing styles that have never been involved with before. So no, it's been it's been a leven experience where we have learned a lot about myself on and off the pitch. I think. So now it's been it's been valuable and I've enjoyed it.
So it feels like Pablo has gone out of his way to really try to walk everybody through exactly how much of a connector you are during some postgame media or every time he has a chance to kind of talk about the state of the team, and he joins us on a weekly basis, and we always end up
talking about your work rate. And I'm sure you want more than three goals and more than five assists, right Like, I know you want the stats, but it does feel like your contributions are ones that really can't be measured with numbers. Is that fair to say?
Yeah, I mean, I'd love to have scored more goals and had a few opportunities, But listen, it's not about the individual, it's about the collective. And the team's done well. We've finished third records points, so all got to the look off Champions Cup, so that's that's the main objective.
Really.
I'm sure in time goals will come back for me and I'll get opportunities, But if a team's performing, then that's kind of my main concern. So yeah, I'm not too I'm not too worried. I've scored goals on my career, so I'm sure they'll come back to me. At some point.
But ultimately, Matt, it feels like the sentiment is, you know, and again, I know you want the goals, I know you want the assists, but a lot of what Pablo is asking you to do is serve as a connector right between like midfielders and maybe cheat you up top. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think naturally, I've always been more of a midfield, like I'm a break I played that positions of my career, so naturally for me, I'll probably drop a little bit deeper and maybe a natural number ten would and try and get on the ball a little bit more than others. But yeah, I just try and get the player, play my game, obviously to the to the style that the team wants to play, but play my own game with freedom and try and express myself that way.
So how would you characterize Because I was at the Vancouver game, you know, and so I was able to chat with with Kurt and Jason and a lot of people with the club. Because undefeated in five heading into the playoffs, that's obviously a good thing. It feels like some of the defensive miscues have been have been cleaned up, and Pablo also talks a lot about defending as a group and making sure this is a team thing, so we're not just putting it on Gavin or Zach or whatever.
So unbeaten in five mad but entering the playoffs, how would you characterize the form of RSL right now?
Well, it's been good.
I think a couple of those drugs for the win wins, we dropped, dropped a couple of points in a couple of those games where we have just closed out the game. So really we put the disappinted that we didn't pick up more points in the end, we're beaten in five. Might you say, it's not just on the defenders the defender it's a team thing. You see, all the best teams in the world were the hardest off the ball
and then they get the rest with the ball. So I think we need all eleven players in sync with that, and that's what we've had the last last few games.
What are the challenges of the roster turnover situation? Obviously On Dress was a big part of your early success. He was he accounted for twenty two goals, thirteen goals, nineteen assists, and you know they sell him. He moves on to France, and of course it was a good fee for the club, so I understand why they did it, and then I could keep going. You know the deal. You guys brought in five new players. What are the challenges of trying to acclimate to new talent around you, Matt, Yeah.
Of course it's a new challenge. He's still trying to learn. I mean, I was trying to learn what Undress was doing still. And then I'll say he left and pushing the best of looking friends and I scored his first goal and he's a great kid, so wishing all the best of there. But then Dom comes in. I think he's settled in really well. But like you say, you've still got to kind of get to know what move was made, how they like to play, stuff like that.
So yeah, of course it covered it with its challenges, but we're not complaining. We've passed over in the good position, and like I said, it's playoffs now and it's all to player for so we kind of just got quicker with it.
So you referenced it, and I've been either with the club or covering the club since the first day it was broad here in two thousand and four, so I was around for all of Jason's great teams and saw that two thousand. I think it's the twenty twelve team who set the record for points in a season and you guys break that what I know you want to lift trophies. Pablo talks about it all the time. I know the goal is to make a run and hopefully lift MLS Cup. But put us put it into perspective.
For us, what in the locker room does it mean to break this single season, all the time record.
Of course, it's great, I think I think from my standpoint, I'm obviously used to the European style with the league running, so it's kind of like uh, less playoffs and more like over the course of the season, how well you do. And I think it shows consistency of how played. And obviously there's dips and people go through dips and fall
and players have highs. But I think of the course of the season it shows the strength of the group and the players that we got on the talent that there is, whether that's at the start of the season or now. And it's obviously Britain home. I think it was fifty nine points was a great achievement for us, but we know and now that that's kind of irrelevant and we've got some big games going up, so.
As you know, you know, you know, there was a stretch there where it felt like if chie Jo only scored one goal, he was having an off night because he was so dominant as you guys, went fifteenth straight without a loss. Now he hasn't scored since since back in July. Help us understand, like, and ultimately, with a guy like that, he gets one, it feels like the floodgates will open. But is that a result of new teammates.
Is that a result of maybe a residual mental effect from the suspension And are you seeing things in training indicate that maybe the the bank account will be open once again by chiech Sho during this playoff run.
Yeah, listen, I can't. I can't speak for future or how his mental state is, but I wouldn't. Obviously he's still like I went into two new players that we all are. But this happens in football. Sometimes you go through these periods where, well, maybe don't score as many goals as you want. I've been doing it all season, really, and it's you just got to keep going and keep working hard, and then eventually if you do keep getting those spots and the results will come. The goals will come.
So I've got full faith in him. The quality is there. I know he's got full faith in himself, so I'm not I'm not too worried about him not scoring recently, and they'll come soon enough.
So as far as the way Pablo has decided to implement some of the new players, I want to just kind of break this down a little bit and help you. Have you help me understand exactly what we're trying to do here. So Diogo feels like a ten to me, Matt. I'm not the coach, obviously, I'm not an expert, but Pablo has moved him around a little bit out wide to where where do you think diego and based off of what you know about his skill, where do you think the best spot is for him?
Probably tenure, I agree with He's probably.
A ten, so you like him more centralized, Yeah, I think he's a ten.
I mean our ten doesn't really play as a central ten. He's the more towards the right, so we don't really play with a conventional number ten. But yeah, he's he's definitely probably vying for the same as what I am, but Diego has got a huge amounts of talent and he's a really good guy, good professional. So listen, if he plays an idol, then I can't complains. He's a
great player and he's got an abundance of talent. I just have to keep working hard in training and show show my worth, come come gain.
Certainly we had Diego on the show last week, just a delightful ki and talk about a guy in form right now. Yeah, I mean a couple of goals the last few games, and I like to say it's the luck of coming on the show, Matt, which means you're gonna score tomorrow, just so you know. But what have you What have you witnessed from Diego? Like why why do you think he's up this game so much? I mean, obviously has a ton of talent, but tell me what you're seeing from him?
Yeah, Diego is a great kid as well. He's willing to learn. He's got like like to say, he's got great natural talent, but I think he he knows it has to work on his game to kind of take it to that next level. He's done really well this season, but I think then for him is to kick them even more and really progress. So I've tried directing in the right ways every now and then and given them a little well look as of information, whether he listens
to me or not, so different things. But now he's a good kid that he's got he's got great ability, and I'll look forward to what he does in the future.
So it does feel like Pablo is kind of leaning on you as one of the leaders in the locker room. Is that fair to say? And what what does that role mean? Matt?
Yeah, I'm one of the older ones now. I still feel twenty one in my head. But yeah, but I was talking about yesterday, think about the third or fourth folder. So yeah, I guess it's using my experience to kind of I don't know, I don't feel like if I want to speak to about stuff and I'll give them my my thoughts on things, but kind of just doing
the right things day and day out of training. I think that's that's where you're bos go and working on the training ground, training, how you play, getting in early, doing your work, doing your gym, eating right, just kind of living your life like like you should be doing. So yeah, that's I wouldn't say, like I'm really vocal on the pitch, but try and lead in in my own style, which is kind of doing just doing the right thing.
So I've asked a number of your teammates this gonna ask you the same question. Certainly as a leader, I don't know what the approach is when something happens like Brian Vera spitting in someone's face and for the second straight year, really letting the club down. Uh, And look he is, he's really good. And it's not just that you're you. You're losing a center back. We know that at times there are design set pieces to utilize that
cannon of the left leg he has. And I'm sure he's gutted because it's not just a regular season game. He's out tomorrow too. Tell us how you feel about the Vera situation, how it was kind of handled, and and how how he is doing.
Yeah, abouly that happened. You can't really control that. It's one of those things in the moment that happened, and it wasn't great. And I think Brian knows that. I doesn't need any to tell him what he did was It wasn't exactly the right thing to do. But listen, we all want to stakes have to move past it, and I'm sure the club maybe it's booked to him, and just maybe try to refocus him now for the games coming up, because we can't have anyone slocking or
feeling sorry for themselves. It's kind of we all got we had together, so hopefully we can move forward. I'm sure we are. I speak my very limited Spanish with Bryan, and I think his actions weren't indication of who he is as a person. What was in the air. Like I said, we all met mists. None's perfect, and as long as he kind of learns from it and makes himself about a player in person, then that's all you.
Can ask for for sure. Well said. Unfortunately, it does leave a little bit of a hole because now Philip Quentin has been knocked up a little bit with an injury that he picked up against Vancouver, and I'm not really sure what that's going to look like. I think, if I can recall correctly, Pablo decided to put a Mecca right back, because Mecca did play right back last year. He brought in Nelson and then he put Gervayane in
the middle next to Justin. I think that's what he did. Ye, So you okay, okay, So do you think that's the plan? I mean, because the center back depth right now, Matt is not great.
I don't know. I've played the mcaree a few times, all right. I'm tall enough, so you never know. You might see me there tomorrow at the back. Now, listen, We've got we've got a good, good depth in the squad. And obviously it's unfortunate what happened with Quincy. I think he's done really well when he's coming to the team, is adding assurance and good with the ball, and obviously defensively as well. So it's unfortunate for Phil, but this is football. It happens. He knows that and he's trying
trying to get back as quick as possible. But I thought you Bain was great sent a half, and like saying, Mac has played right back before last season, so obviously it's not it's not great timing. But as a squad we have to kind of, like I've said so many times already, have we have to kind of get on with it and and play the game in front of us. But if they for needs me to play center half, and I'm ready.
I love it. I love that attitude. I'm going to text Pablo and tell him that you you've offered to play center back against Don't mind. I wonder how you would characterize the defensive state of the club, because, like I said on the intro, it does feel like some of the defensive issues have been better as of late, because for a while and there was some bad, you know,
mistakes by the keeper. But we certainly know that when it comes to the way Pablo wants to play, it's not all on one player, and I'm not pouring it on either Zach or Gavin, but it does feel like it's been better. Matt, do you would you agree with that?
And if so, why, Yeah, certainly, I certainly think so.
I think it's the same thing I said before. We've all got to do it together. I think if one person's out positioned or one person's not not doing what's supposed to be doing, it kind of there was as as strong as a weak slink, and if someone's not doing it, then it's kind of easy to play through. So we only do on the same page what we're doing defensively, and and I think we've done that in
the last in the last few games. These game are going to be tight, So keeping a clean sheet, he's always going to be super helpful.
All right, man, before say you loose. And this is just me saying this, okay, and I'm not trying to get in trouble.
But from my.
Vantage point, Minnesota is like scared of engaging with you guys, and I don't like that style. You know, you've had a couple of games against them, scoreless, draw, one to one draw. So if Minnesota rolls in tomorrow and if they decide to utilize the stile, which I think they're going to to try to grab a road result, what are the biggest challenges Somebody like you scored a ton of goal has always been an attacking player, like when
a team parks the bus. Sometimes it feels like it's impossible to find the back of the net, like playing a long ball and just pray or something. What What What are the keys to breaking down a defensive unit like Minnesota if they decide to basically track back the entire game.
Yeah, listen, I don't know very well, but I know that manager quite well. We have the same agent, So I've been trying to text an agent to get some information out of him. Book to no available but no, they were very they were very good defensively in the lost game. I think I have to move the ball quickly, make a move tired obviously the altitude of facts for always, but we have to try to penetrate and take risks and and just the ruthless when the chances come, if
they do come. So yeah, I think just moving, moving the ball quickly and being being prepared to take risks. And when the ball does is given away, which it will happen at that times, we're trying to take more risks and right quickly to get the ball back. But I think we've got enough starting the game, enough on the bench to create chances and have our moments to win the game.
Well, Matt, you should know Philip Quinton came on the show the week before he scored. Diego came on the show the week before he scored. So there's a little pressure on you to capitalize on the radio luck here to get a goal tomorrow.
Okay, bad, all right, Okay, I'll try my best way, Matte.
Thank you, sir, appreciate the time.
You're welcome. I speak to you all right.
Matt Crooks, midfielder for RSL. He has been really lauded and supported by the club for just his work rate. Now, as he referenced, all these guys want to score goals and get assists. So on the season Matt Crooks with three goals with five assists. He has played in twenty nine games, he started twenty three of them. But really he leads the team in past percentage. Matt's one with
eighty seven percent, Diego's two eighty five percent. Actually, excuse me, Oheita and Ameca are both in the nineties.
Tease.
Those two central bids are pretty good. But you know, Matt obviously has been applauded as a hard worker and a connector. RSL is taken on a Minnesota team, as I said, who has been at least in my opinion, a little fraid to engage with RSL. Parking the bus as they say in soccer, trying to get eleven behind the ball and just slowing it down. And look, that
is tactically something that can be effective. RSL did that against Seattle in the playoffs a couple of years ago when they went on their Western Conference MLS playoff run when nobody saw coming. But it's a challenge because goals are hard man, And that's the deal with this sport. That's why they're like a miracle. It's why it feels
like such a dramatic, uh spectator sport to watch. And if Minnesota goes up early and they're simply parking the bus, I'm not sure that that's gonna be something this fan base is gonna enjoy. But tomorrow night, RSL back in action. The playoffs are here. Fall soccer is awesome. Now Fall football of course, top of mine. We're gonna bring in Scott Mitchell coming up. But it is a six fifty kicktime tomorrow night, and that game will be on Apple TV or head over to RSL dot com. I don't
know if there are any tickets left. We've got Monday at football coming your way in about ninety minutes from right now after we say good night here on the program Russell Wilson and Daniel Jones, and then on nine to sixty is where you can find Game three of the World Series between the Dodgers and the Yanks. Yanks got to get one tonight, man, Eli's up to zero, so keep that in mind. Joining us now on a Monday afternoon, the legend himself, Scott Mitchell. Scott happy Monday, sir, how are you?
Thank you? I'm good. There might be some folks up on the hill that aren't good right now, but you know life, I can't complain. I'm good.
There you go. I like that attitude. And look, last week I was the guy that was holding on to the final branch before we actually tumble out of the tree. And now I'm face down in the mud, Scott. Now I'm face down in the mud. I got nothing like I get a lot of things wrong. You know, you've done this job for a long time. You get some things right, you get some things wrong. I've got plenty wrong.
I don't know. And I'm just speaking for me personally that I've ever been so wrong about something as wrong as I've been about this Utah football team all year. I'm out of answers.
Man.
Just from a macro standpoint, where's Scott Mitchell on this?
Well? Oh, I feel your pain and I feel your like bewilderment, because really, you think about the first part of the season. You play SUU and it looks really good, and Cam rising okay, he's back from his injury, and Baylor starts out amazing and then he just runs into the whatever he ran into and it just and and there goes the season. And I know it's not just on one player, but Cam Rising, when he was here and he was healthy, he was one player that really
changed the whole trajectory of this program. I mean, playing San Diego State and he comes in in the second half of that game four or five years or seven, eight nine, I don't know how many years he's been at Utah, and he was electric, and he was different, and he brought an attitude and he brought a belief that there just wasn't there and he did some incredible things and when to me, it's so much about you look at college football and your fortunes really do in
a lot of way center around a really really good quarterback. And all the good teams in the country have them, and they all either a lot of them aren't homegrown, hired these guns and and a lot of them have worked out. I mean there's some that haven't, but a lot of these quarterbacks in the transfer portal and have have have panned out. And that that's really the biggest kind of uh, you know, because the defense has played well enough to win every single game that we've lost.
I mean, they really have, and and the offense just
has been anemic. And the way I look at it is there's something really weird going on on the offensive side of the ball, and it's and it's you know, and it's probably they look they got a true freshman who's been playing and he's just okay, and he's and he's just you know, he hasn't improved as the year has gone on, and and you're seeing the same performance every single week when he when he's out there, it's just very very pedestrial in and there's just not a
lot there. And it's not saying he can't get there down the road, but right now he's just not ready to play. And so you're just it. You've just been in a tough situation with the quarterback there. But the other thing you're seeing is you're seeing all side penalties. You're seeing you're seeing guys drop balls, You're seeing guys not come back to the football. You're seeing very inaccurate throws.
You're seeing a lot of fundamental things that if you're going to be consistent offensively, you just can't have guys shooting you in the foot right and left and that's what's happening. It's not just a quarterback play. It's across the board. Everyone play, and it's a mindset. It's a mindset of being focused and being taking care of those little details, because those little details that's really what the difference is between winning and losing, and between having a
consistent performance offensively and not. You know, you can't just go through the motions and practice and just run the place. You have to run the place to a level of excellence. And if you don't, when you get in the game, it just it just doesn't show up. And so you just see these things, these fundamental things across the board not happening, and that's why this team's been really poor and inconsistent offensive. Now, the good news to that sense
is it's all fixable. Like you have to you have to change your focus, you have to change your practice habits, you have to you have to have a commitment to being excellent when you're out on the field, and you can do that and whether you are perfect about it not relevant. It's it's the approach and the attitude that's the important thing. And I'm just not seeing that with and it's really the offensive side of the ball from me.
Yeah, and we'll get over the defense in a moment, because to your point, there are a lot of metrics that indicate this is still a top shelf defense, but they're not getting to the quarterback and they're not turning the other team over. I mean, they're doing a lot of things well, they're just not doing the things that we're used to seeing them do well when they're head coach is coach with But we'll get to that in the mod because I do want to stay on the
offensive side of the ball. Now. We talked last week, and this is not a knock. I just wonder aloud what Mike Bijakian can find in an Andy Ludwig offense and Andy Ludwig himself couldn't find. So, now that we have one game, which is a really small sample size, did anything different or unique stand out to you based off of the different play caller?
Well, this isn't going to be a popular statement, Spence, but this is what I saw, and that is shoot, Brandon Rose actually looked pretty decent at quarterback. That was the most positive thing that I saw out of that game, and it was the decision on where to throw the ball. He threw the ball accurately. The interception wasn't some just what is hair brain? What are you thinking kind of throw.
He's trying to make a place third down. The receiver needs to come back to him in that situation, and I didn't really any and he had guys drop the ball on him, and that through very accurately. He seemed really poised. He ran, He ran with decisiveness, He played with decisiveness, and and he you know, he's barely got to play. The guy with the most experienced understanding this offense.
He's had the most reps at it, whether it's been in practice or where and it's not been in a game, but he's probably the most prepared and ready to play from an experienced maturity understanding. And you know, if it's me, and I think it was the right thing to do, because that offense was going nowhere. Uh, it just wasn't. It wasn't going anywhere with with with Isaac. And I'm not I'm not. I'm not like, oh, Isaac's you know,
a bust or anything like that. As young he's just a young kid that just needs to grow and mature and and he's just not ready to play yet. Just not and so if there was anything positive out of that, maybe more of Brandon Rose executing this offense might might work well for this team.
Huh interesting. So I guess I'll follow up and just ask you if you because here we go again, Scott like, we're gonna do the song and dance thing for the next twelve days before BYU about who's it going to be Isaac or Brandon like we're and you know there's gonna be cooy messaging. We won't find out. Probably my
guess is up up until kick. But I guess I'll just follow up and ask you, do you believe that for the rest of the year, starting with Brighamy Young in twelve days under center should be Brandon Rose.
If you're gonna make a change, it's a great time to do it because he's gonna get all the practice reps. He's gonna get two weeks of practice reps, and he's gonna you know, he's gonna get a little bit of timing. He threw the ball very well with with a limited time he had in the game, he actually threw the ball very well. So if you're gonna do it, it's certainly it's certainly the right time to do it, and
sometimes that change, you know, can be a spark. I mean, I mean everyone was like Charlie Brewer, you know, a few years ago, and and he beat out Cam Rising, like like he went the coaches. Everyone chose Charlie Brewer to be the starter. And Charlie was running this offense like a lot of these quarterbacks you've seen the last couple of years run it. And then all of a sudden, Cam Rising comes in and it's a whole different offense. So maybe that's the situation where we're in here because
no one knows. No one knows what Rose can do at this time. I mean because he never played, and no one knew what Cam Rising could have done. And I just saw a guy who wanted to play football when Brandon Rose got out there and played. So you know, you got to you gotta talk to Isaac Wilson off the ledge, you know, because he's young, and you don't want to you don't want to mess him up, but it might be a good time for him to just
kind of take a seatback. I know a lot of people are like, now, I'll throw him in there, give him all of this experience and I'm I'm just not seeing a lot of improvement right now from Isaac Wilson. I'm and I'm a big fan of game reps and all that stuff, but I'm seeing more regression with Isaac than i am improvement.
Okay, well, I guess we'll see. I mean, look, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm kind of surprised, Scott, because from my vantage point, I just figured at this point, I mean, look, if we're honest, what really is on the table, and if the only thing that you're playing for is to play spoiler, that's a bad indicator of where you're at as a program. So if you know, look a couple more wins, you get to a throwaway bowl. Obviously you like the bowl experience for the seniors upperclassmen.
We don't want to see anybody go out on a downturn. And certainly, if this is Kyle's last year, which a lot of people believe that it is, I have no insight into that, you do want to go out with a little bit more of a bang than you're doing right now. But if there really isn't much on the table as far as what we thought could be on the table to start, the year. I just thought you might as well let Isaac go through the growing pains, right and just give them some reps.
And I've been a believer of that, and I am a believer in that, but I'm also in a believer of you know, there's sometimes guys just aren't ready to play. Yeah, And and what I've seen is, you know, if my freshman year at Utah had I played, I probably would have been okay. But having you know, a maturity, just being in the program, having some confidence in myself and my ability, I was far far suited to start playing
the second year and then you know, and beyond. But it's it's a tall order for a true freshman to step in there and really really, you know, do well. And what you don't want to do is you don't want to put all these ghosts in a kid's closet that come out later on in his career. You know, if all he's learning when he goes out on the field is is like these bad images, and you know that you don't want to you don't want to put
that in a guy's mind either. And and there there really is a time when some kids they're just they're just not quite ready for it. They just aren't. And and and it's okay. It doesn't mean it's the end of him. It doesn't mean anything. It just means that in this moment right now, it's probably best for you
to just take a step back. If I expence, if I saw him like, Okay, you know, there's improvement, and but I've kind of seen the same performance the last four week, you know, pretty much since he's been in there. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing a step forward with Isaac.
Wilson, Yeah, for sure. And I'm not saying you're wrong, I you know, I'm I'm just kind of trying to dig down a couple of different levels to understand what's going on. I mean, look, I could run through all the metrics. They're fifteenth in total, oh, they're leventh and rushing, they're tenth and passing their fifteenth in efficiency, Like, by any measurable metric, this is one of the bottom three or four offense is in all of the Big twelve.
But let me go back to asking you once again about the play calling away from either Brandon or Isaac. Did you see anything from Mike in his first game simply from calling plays that you it gives you some hope that this might look different starting with b Yu.
I mean, honestly, no, I mean it's the same offense. You know, I didn't I didn't see anything. I go, well, okay, that's that's kind of creative. That's that's a little bit different. They Utah was you know, clearly uh you know, trying to establish the run pretty patiently. Uh And but there wasn't any They weren't really running the ball, right. Uh. They're also running against a front designed to stop the run. And and and they've I've been seeing these same looks
from all the teams. They're they're just challenging Utah to to throw the football and just say, your quarterback's gotta beat us, and and and they haven't been able to do that. And uh so you're when you are running it, you're you're running with kind of your hand tied behind your back a little bit. And so it's it's tough sledding and and uh but you know, I think that's the game plan. They said, Look, we're gonna we're gonna run the ball. We're just going to you know, try
to you know, work off of that. And and I don't think it worked. Very well for for Isaac in the game. Uh moving forward, you know, I don't know if they change that they do more, but yeah, the offense, there wasn't anything to me that I go, well, okay, that's that gives me a lot of excitement and hope you Spence, you're talking to a guy that's been in some of the greatest offenses in like the history of
the NFL. I'm not joking like I mean, I mean the offense I had it so for me to watch all of this from just the ground level forever, you know, really, look, Kyle Whittingham's the defensive minded coach. It's not about playing great offense. It never is. And and so you know, I don't see where Mike Jaking's going to come in and all of a sudden they're going to have a great offense.
Yeah, I mean, look, I want honesty and truthful you know, interactions on this show. So I appreciate you kind of giving us the medicine because I certainly respect your eye in a way that others probably can't see it because you've played it at the highest of levels. I wonder what your thoughts are, Scott. You know, after the game Mackai Bernard essentially said, I know what's up. I'm just not going to say it out loud now. If I had to guess, it's simply the play of the quarterback position.
And you know, maybe Mackai doesn't want to throw anybody under the bus. But that that led to a lot of speculation about what exactly is going on behind closed doors. What are your thoughts on that.
I'm sure that plays into it. I'm sure that there may be you know, there's this there's a chemistry thing with teams, and it's and it's not the culture of the program, it's the chemistry of the players and how they interact with each other because you look at the body language and that that's what really what I was alluding to earlier. When you see guys not focused in games,
something else is going on in their mind. They're they're they're upset by maybe I didn't get the same kind of money this guy did or whatever, you know, because that's that's kind of creeping into college football and these players. And and when you start getting those thoughts or those your focus goes outside of Hey, your job every week is to get yourself ready to play, and you don't get yourself ready to play when you're wondering, is the
quarterback going to throw me the football? Is the coach going to call a play for me? You know? Am I you know I'm you know I'm not. I'm not involved in the offense. What are you? Excuse me? You you have this distraction and you have things that and it impacts the way you play. And that's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing guys not doing those fundamental things and they should be and I know they're coach to do it, but they're not doing it. And that's not just the quarterback.
It's and so these guys are distracted in some way. They're not putting in the focus. They're not putting in the time to mentally and physically prepare themselves to play. Why why they're doing it? If they're upset that the quarterback's not playing very well and and you go, well, we got no shot to win the game anyways, you know, it's it's it's uh, uh, it's it is impacting their play.
I mean, it just it just is. So they're uh, there's something, some dynamics, some chemistry going on on that team that's not conducive to production and winning.
Yeah, and and to your point, and just in order to be fair, uh, let's move off the quarterback position because we'll see what happens against BUYU, whether it's Isaac or Brandon. But the truth is, there are not a lot, not a lot of things that are working right now. I mean, kicker miss a couple field goals, Brandon's interceptions set up a game winning field goal, and the defense, Scott, there are a lot of metrics that, like I said,
indicate that the defense is very good. They're second in scoring D, they're number one in total D. They're number three and rushing. They're number three in passing, their number three in efficiency. But they are not getting to the quarterback. They have not had a sack in three games. They're eleventh in the conference in sacks. They're last in the conference in fumbles forced, their second to last in the
conference in fumble's recovered, their ninth in interceptions. Like there are metrics to indicate that the defense still clearly is the strength of the team. That's not a hot take, But what do you make of what I just perceived to be? When a team is coached by Kyle Whittingham, they get to the quarterback, they force turnovers, they play that complimentary football. What do you most attribute to the lack of pressure that Utah is being able to drum up on the opposing team's quarterback.
I'm gonna throw it back on the offense, I am, and I'll tell you why the offense has not performed well. Hasn't driven the ball down the field, hasn't given the defense time to rest in games. So as games progress and go on, as defense gets tired, and they've been down a couple of Conroe tool being out has hurt them a lot. And and he kind of, you know, gave him a good spark this last week when he was in the game and he wasn't in there. You know, I'm sure they're slowly kind of bringing him back to
the game. But Houston barely threw the football. A lot of the teams, I mean, TCU, which throws the heck out of the football, didn't and they got rid of the ball really quick. They a lot of teams aren't really giving Utah a chance. And and they don't have to. And and you you saw a lot of patients with the running game out of TCU a couple of weeks ago, as a team that all they want to do is throw it right like like they they you know, they realized that the Utah offense is not very good and
that and that's the other thing. When you're not scoring, when you're not you know, you're not getting any kind of lead and you're always playing from behind, then there's no pressure on the other offense. They don't have to open it up, they don't have to throw the ball as much. They don't, so there's not as many opportunities for for the you know, the defense to really get sacks.
They're just there just haven't been it. I mean, teams have really really focused on running the football against Utah.
I mean it's blatantly running the football. And then and what happens the defense gets tired late in the game because they've been out on the field all night, and you get worn down and you get you know, and then you start missing tackles and you start getting lazy in your gap control, you know, at the line of scrimmage, and then all of a sudden, boom, they just bust a big run and that and that's that's really kind of what's been happening, you know, with with a lot
of with a lot of these these defensive plays, and and uh, and with with the limitations, with the the excessive demand and that the defense has been asked to do because the offense has not been producing. I really believe outside of one thing, the defense has been playing really well. And there's there's been a lot of mistackles. And you can attribute mistackles to guys being tired. I mean, and I know it's like, you know, just suck it up and play, and I'm sure they think that way,
but your body doesn't necessarily react that way. You know, when you're tired, you just and you may not even realize it. But a lot of mistackles that I don't normally see from the defense. That's the one thing to me that's been more more of an issue than anything else.
So this simply leads us to what comes next, right and BUYU. They have stayed clean. You know, they're undefeated, their atop the conference, they're a top ten team, and they've answered every question that's been thrown at them. I don't think there's really anything left to wonder about whether or not they're for real. They are and the number or say that, the data says that, and Scott, you
know this better than anybody. They're gonna be smelling the blood in the water and they're gonna come up here to go for the jugular. You know, they know where Utah's at. And after a generation of having their heads kicked in and being made fun of for going independent and not having a conference home like, they're gonna come up here, you know, ready ready to roll. What what do you hope to see between now and the BYU game?
Uh?
And then during the actual game to indicate to you from your prism that maybe this thing is about to be turned around.
Well, to start with, what really makes me nervous about this Utah BYU game is this is a This is a group of players at Utah that have grown up without being a part of this rivalry. They don't understand it. They've never played in a game. They don't realize the significance of it. They don't think they they don't, they don't they think, they don't think much of it. And now the coaches do. The coaches understand it. But none of these players has has has felt it, has been
in it. And even when Utah was in the Pac twelve, it still wasn't the rivalry that it was before, and so now this is this, this is a big deal. This is gonna continue to be a big deal between these two schools. And I'm just I'm a little nervous to players don't at utah, I don't, I don't and a team that's not really been fighting that hard anyways, are they going to really all of a sudden step it up and go, Okay, this is a rivalry game. We got to really get into this one on the
other side of it. So that that's a concern. I'm not saying it's it's gonna happen or whatever, but but it would concern me. The other thing to me is all the pressures on by U, Like you know, it's it's it's that time of the year. It's that one game where you know, the game gets started and and you are a little bit maybe more jazzed up than
you normally would be because it is the rivalry. You start pressing a little bit, you get a you get an interception here there or a turnover, and it just starts going downhill and uh, you know, so, so I could see where it could be one of those weeks where because there's a lot of pressure when you're nine to zero and and a lot of pressure to keep doing it. And and uh, rivalry games, funny things happen,
and not necessarily the best team always wins. So so you know, I could see that scenario happening, and and and it's a good time, uh, you know, to have another bye week and to kind of maybe collect yourself and and and I think, you know, there's gonna be a lot of you know, pretty harsh talk about I want to you know, we're going to play the guys that really want to play and really want to be here and really want to be out on the field, and you and so you may see some changes in
what's happening with Utah. And you know, if there ever is a moment, if there ever is something to play for in your program and you're having a struggling year, it's a rivalry game, It really is. It can you know, it's not going to take the sting of the huge disappointment this season is, but it can take some of it away from what, you know, what's been a really abysmal year.
So how much of this scot is fixable and coachable, How much of it is on the coaches, How much of it's on the players. And then then simply put, as a guy that played it at the highest level, how do you turn a train? It feels like it's so far off the track around in just twelve days, like dissect that for me.
Well, a lot of those things that I told you about coming back to the football and focusing and not going off sides and better ball location and throws, all of that stuff is fixed. And it's all of these fundamental things. And you know, coach Ula made us tackle form tackle every every day. First thing we did in practice of the quarterback, you're not tackling Dan Marino. Well, I didn't get to tackle him. He said, don't care, you're not tackling me. I'll tackle you, but you're not
tackling me. And it was all about the fundamentals, and the fundamentals of football were driven into us every single day. And when you get into a weird situation nineteen ninety five, we started zero three and it could have fallen off a cliff. We really just circle the wagons and it was even a bye week, and we focused back on those fundamental things of football and really re emphasized all of it and and really looked at the personnel we had and said, how do they best work? And let's
let's not try to do everything. Let's just try to do the things that we can do well. And that's what I see happening now. You can't fix a freshman quarterback. He's still a freshman, but there's a lot of other things you can fix around it and might be sitting in for a little while, might not not be a bad thing. But one hundred percent of this is fixable. And really it's all in your brain, Spence. I mean,
it's just it's a mindset. It's a mindset about how you prepare and that's that's the thing that has to be fixed.
Well, I'll tell you what. We'll end on this from your perspective, because for me and we all just kind of react off our own inner circle. And I'm sure some of this is cognitive dissonance and echo chamber based off of who I interact with. And you know, I have a lot of friends who are boosters and season ticket holders and donors, and obviously is an alum y'ar
connecting the community. I don't recall a time where I feel like the fan base has been so down about a season, and part of this probably was unrealistic expectations in retrospect. I mean, for me, and I'm sure you did the same. I always prefaced any ute projection with if Cameron's under center and healthy, and obviously that that hasn't been the case. I don't think we can be so reductive as just to say this is a Cam thing anymore, because certainly that's probably the biggest piece of it,
but there are other pieces as well. When's the last time from your vantage point, it felt as dire as it seems like it feels right now surrounding this team.
It might be back when I was playing here, I mean in the eighties, you know. I mean it's it's it's there's a bad feeling and it's look, it's accentuated because BYU's doing so well. It just makes it worse. It just does you know? Can you turn around the
last four games of the season, You sure hope. So. I think the thing that's shocking to me is I felt like Utah was a really solid team and every position and solid with the depth, and because depth is such an important part, because you're gonna have attrition and having guys come in and You've seen some injuries, and some guys have really stepped up at a lot of different positions and played and and and yet that quarterback
position is just such a such a bugaboo. If you're if you're going to have a great year, well you got to get a guy under center who stays healthy and performs at a high level. But for me, you know, I was I was trying to be super objective and just say, Okay, I'm going to look at it. I'm not gonna try to be the ute fan. And I just I just said, this is a deep team, this
is a good team. The problem is is you still have to play and and and there have been some positions, the tight end position massively underperforming, the wide receiver position massively underperforming. McKay Bernard's been phenomenal, but who's is there any other running back there? The offensive line is actually performed fairly decent. You know, quarterback position has been you know,
C minus ish or even lower. Uh And and so yeah, you always know the season is not going to end the way you think it is or play out because guys have to perform and they have to play, and and it's it's just you know, the worst possible things I think could happen this year have happened, and and uh, and it's it's a tough one. It's a tough one to swallow. And and you just the one thing you
know is you can change. You can change things quickly, and you can because of the NIL and because of the transfer portal, and so you're not you're not stuck in this challenge forever. You can have quick turnarounds. And and there are probably some things that are gonna have to change. There's some players that are going to need to get in here. If this if this is really gonna if it's really going to get back on track.
I lied to you, Scott, to have one more because I wanted to get your thoughts on. I wanted to get your thoughts on just a dynamic that I was wondering aloud about earlier. Morgan Morgan Scaley, who is in line to take over for Kyle and Kyle the size that he's done. And like I can continue to say, I have no insight there, but people that know in a way that I wouldn't have wondered loud if this is it for coach? Wait, what do you think is going through Morgan said, because there's actually a way to
spin this in a positive direction. It's always tough to take over for a legend, ask Kalin de Bore. But if this track, if this train continues to go in the wrong direction and Morgan is able to get it back on track next year, maybe it will inspire some confidence that Utah's made the right succession planned decision. How do you think Morgan's digesting all this right now?
I think that whole dynamic spense is hard. When it was announced, I get why they announced that it's for recruits. It's to show continuity in the program. It's also the people were courting Morgan to leave. I know specifically, USC was going to pay him a lot of money to leave, so it was a way to kind of ensure that
he sticks in the program. But the thing is is it's a funky dynamic because as a player, you go, well, I know Coach WIT's going to leave some time, and so I think you could get to where, you know, I'm not really following coach Whittingham anymore because he's not going to be around. You know, he's really kind of he's kind of the guy, but he's kind of not the guy. You know, it's it's it's uh, it can get I think it could get kind of odd. And
I mean I thought of this scenario. You know, maybe maybe maybe Morgan went to Kyle and said, hey, look, I don't think I want Andy as the coordinator. I mean, I mean, there's there's a lot of different you know, so so let's let's get rid of him now. And uh, and I'll move into different And I'm just speculating here. I'm just saying there's just a lot of a lot of scenarios that could play out. The bottom line, Coach Whittingham is a really good coach that done a phenomenal
job at Utah. Morgan has been an outstanding coach player. You know, if there's anyone that's should be the coach at Utah should be Morgan. And and when you go into a situation, you believe you or you have all the answers. And I guarantee you Morgan scali believes he has all the answers, and I guarantee you that he'll take from Coach Whittingham what he likes. But he's also going to be Morgan Scalley and who he really is.
And and uh, and and it's and it's proven to be a really a really good coach and that's not a bad thing, you know. Uh, Kyle learned from people, and you know, he wasn't Urban Meyer, but he learned a lot of things from Irbyn or coach Mack. And so I think Morgan is really feeling like, Man, I can't wait to get my hands on the steering wheel here.
I can't wait to be the guy because I'm sure he's very ready for this, and I'm sure he has his own ideas and his own thoughts and and but I do think it would be hard right now to kind of, look, you kill him a program here that I'm getting in there, you know, I mean, I mean I could see that, you know, being being kind of a sticky point between between the two of them as as they're kind of waiting for Kyle to decide to end.
All right, Scott, Well, good stuff today, man, I've appreciate the time, and we'll see if they can get it turned around.
Have a good day, okay, all right, thanks appreciate.
Its Scott Mitchell. Yeah, it's it's not great, not great.
Bob