FRI POD @SpenceChecketts on #NBAFinals, Pacers Game 1 Win, Jazz Adding an Ainge + more

booking the program today. We've got a good guest list man excited for this. Happy Friday to you. Congratulations, you made it. It is weekend time. Take a big, old deep breath and enjoy the fact that you made it through the week. Hope you have some fun weekend plans with this beautiful weather here in Salt Lake City, Utah and the surrounding areas. Maybe get out, do a little hiking, little biking, walk the dog, swing a golf club. We've

got some NBA Finals action to talk about. I'll tell you what, never been one to do radio with the whole like put my feet in the cement on a hot take and be upset if I'm wrong. I like the rest of the free world that picked the Oklahoma City Thunder to win the NBA Championship. I picked them in five, which means they've got to win four straight. But I'll say right off the top, i hate the

Indiana Pacers and I'll always hate the Indiana Pacers. Little PTSD working on it, therapy, reiki, healing, ayahuasca, just kidding, whatever I need to do to get over my childhood trauma of watching Reggie Miller torture my New York Knicks. Although that's not an entirely accurate narrative. While I will never cheer for this basketball team, I am so wildly impressed with them. Rick Carlisle is doing a masterful job. Tyree Saliburton, you know, was interesting watching the game last night.

We'll get to it on the program, the first three and a half quarters. And I said this yesterday. I think it was during Crosstock with Sean when he asked me, you know, this whole debate about whether or not Tyree Saliburton is a legitimate superstar. There are so many long stretches where he just looks like one of the dudes in their rotation, and then ultimately he just has this ability to find a way to get it done when

the moment calls for it. And if that's not the definition of a superstar player in pro basketball, I'm not sure what is. Oklahoma City had them in a stranglehold and just remarkable resilience from this group of players that are very good and talented. Let's be clear, I mean this narrative that they don't have talented players is incorrect. But my goodness, Indiana once again snatches victory from the jaws of defeat and they go up one zero in the NBA Finals after beating OKC last night one to

eleven to one to ten. They did not have the lead until point three seconds left in the game. Now, if you're not familiar with the bio rhythms of NBA schedule makers, now we wait and we wait, and we wait and we wait two days between games. No reason for that. In my opinion, Sunday will be game two. That back at Paycom Center in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. That crowd was awesome. The OKC crowd reminds me a little bit of the Salt Lake crowd when the Jazz are good.

I know, kids, it's been a while. Hopefully it happens again before we all die. But that building loud and proud and crazy, but credit the Indiana Pacers. Sunday's game will be a six o'clock mountain time tip on ABC and then we go from there. The battle for Lord

Stanley's Cup resumes tonight. If you miss game one, holy smokes, it was awesome, and tonight we'll see if we can get the same type of feel, the same type of intensity and passion, and hopefully overtime because over time the Stanley Cup Playoffs rules Panthers Oilers tonight, six o'clock mountain time drop of the Pucket Rogers Place in Edmonton, Alberta. You can hear that game here on this radio station.

We are your home of both the Stanley Cup Finals and the NBA Finals in the market, so keep that in mind. Oilers up one zero rematch of last year's Stanley Cup, which was awesome in and of itself. So

there we go. A lot to do on the program today with the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Finals top of mind, awareness little off season NBA news already the proposed dramatic off season that people have discussed has already begun and apparently the New York Knicks are looking to speak with Jason Kidd, who currently is the head coach of the Dallas Mavericks, who have the number one overall pick in the NBA Draft. We'll talk about this. I'm not sure that I see how this goes down. If

you're Dallas, you're asking for a lot. The Knicks do not have draft compensation because they essentially utilized all of it in the mckel Bridges trade. Only a few weeks away from the NBA Draft, where Utah Jazz find themselves with the number five and the number twenty one overall pick in the first round, a couple second rounders to boot.

We'll see what the Jazz end up doing prior to draft night, or if they stay at five and twenty one and they look to just add a couple of young pieces and hopefully have better talent evaluation at their disposal. So far, the draft results over the past three off seasons have been mixed at best. So we'll do some Jazz offseason on the show today. RSL is idle this weekend, which is probably a good thing because they don't seem

to be very good at soccer right now. Their next game will be the fourteenth June the fourteenth, as rslill take on DC United and then they only have one other game this month. Diego Luna has made his way to the US men's national team. With a little Cold Cup action for Diego and RSL unable to add talent until the summer transfer window, which opens I believe mid July ish. How about Yankees Red Sox tonight she do some more baseball as the summer kind of warms up.

We have the French Open going on. Carlos Akaraz is in the final. That dude is just different, of course, and we have a little French Open tennis as well. The world of professional golf has their eye on the RBC Canadian Open, and my guy Nick Taylor, proud Canadian, has made a little move here. He is ten under. He's right behind Cameron Champ who won a corn ferry event in our market. We'll do a little golf on the show today too. Off season college football news Utah

BYU style kind of idle right now. Most of the off season college football storylines are surrounding the house of the NCAA settlement, the proposed expansion of the CFP conferences, fighting with each other NFL off season news. Good riddance. Aaron Rodgers is a Steeler who gives a rip. So there you go. A lot to do on the show, good guest. Let's we'll start things off today with Christopher

mad Dog Russo. Mike and the mad Dog was the first sports talk radio program I consumed as a youngster growing up in the Northeast footprint, where it really was the first kind of two man radio show format, where that radio station took a risk to believe that people would actually listen to two people talk about sports for hours on end every day, and people did, and it was a massive success. Chris is now on First Take

with Stephen A. Smith. I believe those are Wednesdays when you see Chris Ru's daily show on Sirius XM does major League baseball stuff. He's still doing it at very high level. So we will bring in Chris Russo right off the top today. We'll talk some NBA playoffs. I know we have strong feelings on the NBA lottery where the Jazz found themselves. I guess I'll say falling a fifth, even though that was the most likely outcome with the way the lottery is set up these days, we'll bring

in mad Dog right off the top today. Howard Back, one of our favorites, talk some NBA on the program, Zach Harper more NBA, NBA Daily CYS Style. My old radio partner, Gordon Monson stops by longtime sports columnists from the Salt Lake Tribune. I'm going to try to be really nice to Gordon today. His daughter got married and they went over to Hawaii for the ceremony, and I'm sure Gordon did not appreciate this, but his wife, Lisa,

who I love. They're an awesome family, They're great people, was sending out a bunch of videos and Gordon was wearing a Foedora throughout the course of the ceremony. I'm gonna try not to only talk about Monton in a fedora today, but honestly, it's kind of the only thing I want to ask him about, because my guess is that was not his choice, that was probably handed to him. He has five daughters who are all very beautiful and very fashionable, and his wife looks like she's twenty years

younger than he is, and she's gorgeous. So my guess is they were like, what do we do with dad? Well, let's just hand him a Fedora and let's see if he's able to pull that off. So when I saw the video, I actually texted Porter, I'm like, dude, you gotta get Gordon on the show so I can mock him for his Fedora. Chris Russo, Howard Beck, Zach Harper, Gordon Mont and me Spence check ats all of you

the great listeners that guy, Porter Larson. Have you ever in your life warn of Fedora unironically or not for a Halloween costs you?

do this. But I am so wildly impressed with the Indiana Pacers, even though I cannot stand team.

of run of the mill game for him. Andrew Nemhard, Yeah, you know, good pick and role player, fine defender, although a little undersized, but there are moments in big games where he turns into Alan Iverson at the end of a possession. And man, it's a lot of fun to watch because they are going to turn this into a series that I don't think a lot of us expected coming in.

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seven under sports dot com. Last Night, Game one NBA Finals. Don't forget mad Dog Russo of First Take Fame and Mike and the Mad Dog Fame will be our first guest on this Friday Game one NBA Finals Oklahoma City, and it really, in a lot of ways was kind of fitting the script that most people thought it would. Early on, we talked about the potential of certainly Indiana looking nervy and playing a little bit loose for a

young roster that's never been to the NBA Finals. Now OKC certainly as a young roster that's also been never been this far together, and they play a lot of young players, and Mark Dagnold decided to sit Isaiah Hartenstein and start Case and Wallace. I don't think he's gonna do that again. I'll tell you why later on. And Indiana certainly looked like the nervous team, a tremendous amount

of turnovers and ugly turnovers too. Now, remember, as we talked about yesterday, Oklahoma City does a lot of things really well, but one of the main reasons they have been historic in their performance this year, already winning eighty plus games, a net that, ultimately, when you look at the way Oklahoma City beat teams all year long, their net quite literally was historic. Every one of the metrics that Oklahoma City has, both on offense and defense, indicated

historic team. Their average margin of victory this year, which is what net is and differential, is plus twelve point nine. Just to give you some perspective, the second highest NET in the West this year was Minnesota plus five. Okay, the highest net in the East was Cleveland plus nine point five, which is really good, but plus twelve point nine when you are beating teams on an average of thirteen points to night, you are historically good. Top five offense,

top five defense. All the metrics and the data, sorry people don't want data, whatever it is ultimately indicate that this is a historically special team that should win the World Championship. And I still believe they're going to. But the thing that they really do that makes them stand out among their peers, it's two tiered. They force you to turn the ball over and they take care of

the basketball themselves. And then typically what they do is they capitalize on your turnovers to get points off of them. They did not do that last night. Okay, So Indiana they did finish with twenty four turnovers. I believe that was the number, twenty four turnovers, but twenty of them came in the first half, so they really really had a loose start to the game. Then they settled in and the second half and started taking care of the basketball.

The problem is if you're Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City turned their twenty four turnovers into eleven points. Eleven points off at twenty four turnovers. It feels like that's a fake stat because if you get twenty four extra possessions, and if you just times that by two, and you're not gonna get a bucket off of every possession but forty eight points, you know, at least you want to get twenty five to thirty points off of twenty four turnovers. And that's at least they got eleven points off of

Indiana's turnovers. So I'm watching the game last night, and it ultimately existed in this space where Oklahoma City was up between like eight and thirteen for like forty minutes or whatever it was, and that's where the game existed, but every time, the turnovers continue to pile up, and Oklahoma City was unable to capitalize on those turnovers. And Rick Carlisle said this himself at halftime. It's like, look, the bad news is we can't take care of the basketball.

The good news is we're still within shouting distance because quite honestly, they should have been down twenty to twenty five at halftime and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City should have won that game by twenty points last night. There's no other way to put it. If Indiana is going to be that loose with the basketball, you have to turn those turnovers into points. Now. Remember the other thing we talked about is when Mark Dagnault go small, he relies on his wings to go get rebounds, and he has

good rebounding wings. You know, uh Lou Dort last night, you know a couple of big time offensive rebounds in the first quarter. Shay can rebound well for a guard. Jalen's a big bodied guard. Cason Wallace is not. I'll get back to this, Like I said, I don't think the Cason Wallace thing and the starting lineup is going to work for Mark dagnol We'll see what he does you're bringing Caruso off the bench. He's a good rebounding guard. But last night Indiana out rebounds Oklahoma City fifty six

to thirty nine. Because Mark Dadnold decided he was going small, he was going to be stubborn, and Rick Carlisle, to his credit, did not do that. And actually Indiana got the rebounding from their guards in a way that Oklahoma City did not. Aaron Ne Smith had twelve rebounds last night, Tyrese Halliburton had ten rebounds last night, and Pascal Siakam had ten as well. Miles Turner, their starting center, was their third or excuse me, their fourth leading rebounder with nine.

Because the guards rebounded so well, that allows Indiana to play small. And if Oklahoma City's going to be stubborn and do that, they need more energy on the glass from Chet, who only had six rebounds. It was a bad check game last night. He only played twenty four minutes because they were staggering minutes between Hart and Stein and Chet. I think that's going to change. Caruso was solid off the bench because he always is. This comes down to one thing, though, and this is not something

you can measure. If you're an analytical guy who measures basketball with your calculator, and this is more of a ancillary and tangible. This is just a group that will not stop until there are zeros on the clock. And that sounds pining the sky kind of corny. There are plenty of teams in pro basketball that when the rubber meets the road, they feel like they're beaten, they're done. It's one, two, three, cancun and for Rick Carlile to be able to instill the belief in his players, and

it is based off of results. Because Tyree Saliburton talked about this after the game, It's not just what they did last night. It's not just what they did to the Knicks. It's not just what they did to the Cavs or the Bucks. I mean, they've sent Giannis home, Donovan home, Jalen Brunson home, and I don't think they're gonna send SGA home. But they have the one zero elite. But it's not just what they've done in the postseason.

This is who they've been since January. Since the start of January, the two best teams in Pro basketball Number one Oklahoma City Thunder, Number two the Indiana Pacers. These are the two best teams in the NBA since January. I just don't know how many teams, how many people are paying attention. This is who they've been, it's who they are now. A couple things last night that I completely completely whipped on. Porter referenced Andrew Nemhard's play in

the fourth quarter. Now, aaron Ne Smith clearly has a little bit of an ankle thing still, even though he was a dog last night as well. But Rick Carlisle threw Andrew Nemhard on Tyree's or excuse me on Shae Gilgess Alexander in the fourth quarter to give aaron Ne Smith a bit of a break and nemhar get up about five inches de Sga. But that dude is a pit bull. I mean, I love the way he plays. He just gets up in you and he lets you

know I'm gonna be here all night. So for all the conversation about the Tyres Saliburton game winner, and Tyrese deserves it, five either game winning or game tying shots with less than five seconds less than the playoffs. Okay, if you go back to nineteen ninety seven, since nineteen ninety seven, now this is a convenient way to frame it because nineteen ninety seven was the last year of

Peake Michael Jordan, as Jazz fans know. But since nineteen ninety seven, Lebron James has eight game tying or game you know, giving your team the lead shots are in the final five seconds of a playoff game. Lebron has eight. In second place is Reggie Miller with five and Tyrese Saliburton with five, and Tyrese hasn't played near the amount of playoff games that those two have played, let alone. All the other people in that conversation, namely Kobe being Bryant,

was surprised that he wasn't on the list. So certainly Halliburton came up clutch last night, but prior to Halliburton's game winning shot, he was a wallflower. This is why this debate about Halliburton is interesting. And I guess when it comes to your definition of a superstar, we can reasonable minds can disagree. But one of the reasons why, And by the way, I'm still in this space where I don't view Halliburton on the level of Jokic or Jannis or Luca or Sga, like he is not one

of those players. Okay, if you ask any roster constructor in pro basketball name the players that you would most want to start your franchise with, Tyrese would not be listed alongside other than some of the other names I just mentioned. And last night was an indicator. As I'm watching the game, I'm like, where is he? You're too good to be a wallflower. He was rebounding and he's

not a great defender. He was doing his best to keep up because Oklahoma City was doing everything they could to put Halliburton in their primary ball screen action to make sure that A it's a better matchup for Shay and b you make sure that Tyrese is tired down the stretch. But he didn't score his first points until like three minutes left in the first I don't even think he got a shot off. And certainly, being a star player, and if you're a league guard, it's much

more than scoring. And like I said, he had ten boards and six assists, only three turnovers in thirty nine minutes against that defense as a lead guard is a good number. But I'm watching all game, I'm like, where is he? You know, we're seeing Miles Turner in a lot of action, We're seeing Pascal Siakum and once again

was really good and Siakam is a great player. But I'm waiting for Haliburton to kind of show up, and sure enough down the stretch, as this eight to twelve point lead starts to dwindle and Oklahoma City goes more or less ISO for either Sha or Jalen, and they start missing some of the mid range shots and Nemhard hits his step back three against Shay when he shakes him,

and it was really nice. I'm going, all right, this is kind of setting itself up one again for a tyresse Halliburton moment which lead us, which leads us to the final stanza where Shay was being guarded by Nemhard. He gets some separation and it's a great look. And for all the love Indiana deserves about their never say die attitude, the luck that they have been receiving, I mean the Halliburton game winner against the Knicks that went off the back iron, It bounced up like thirty feet.

The TV camera lost it, and Shay gilgess Alexander when he gets to that spot free throw line extended about fourteen to fifteen feet away from the bucket. That is cash. That's the look you want, but he misses it. He goes along. Halliburton gets the rebound, and I said, right away when I saw that, it was Cason Wallace who picked him up. And look, Cason Wallace is a good defensive player. I'm not saying he's not. But if Rick Carlyle calls a time out, they get the rebound with

ten seconds left, they instantly find Tyrese. He dribbles it up and Cason picks him up. And when I'm sure Rick Carlisle thought this, when Rick saw that it was Casein and not Lou Dort, who fights over screens, by the way, like he's a defensive end evading offensive lineman. It's amazing watching this dude guard and Tyreese couldn't do

anything if Dort was the primary defender. But when Rick saw that it was Casin, no timeout, go ahead, guard Tyree Saliburton with Cason Wallace, who again is a good on ball defender. But Tyres is bigger than he is. And if you go back and watch the replay, it was bad defense from Cason. That's too much space to give tyre Saliburton. Now give Tyree's credit for shaking him and getting a couple of feet, but right when I

saw that, because when Tyres has space, he's dangerous. He just has this weird little hitch push a set shot where it's tough for him to get space unless he they go one four flat and he's able to get some penetration with a step back. There was a cut from the right side that essentially drug Caruso close to the baseline, so Caruso didn't hedge out and help the case in, gave him too much space, and boom knocks down the mid range jumper point three seconds left. For

all intents and purposes, game over. That building was stunned, and it was remarkable to watch Indiana do it again, five comebacks while being down fifteen points in the fourth quarter, like they're breaking every single record prior to last night, when teams were down nine in the final three minutes of an NBA Finals game since nineteen seventy one oh

and one eighty two. Every single time Indiana does this, the stats and Info department comes up with a stat where you're kind of like, wait, no one has ever done what they've done before. This is a historic run, even if it doesn't end in a championship. But you know what, it just might it might be their year. All right, Briday's show rolled along here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah. Our next guest, I like to call

him a friend, but a mentor. First and foremost best known I don't know these days Chris Russo, Mad Dog of course, mister Russo best known for me with my the Mad Dog. My question out of the gates these days, what do you get recognized for the most first take?

So if am mass standpoint now, everybody kind of puts everything together right away, takes.

It's been too long. Every time I watch you on first Take, I have this thought like, is it is it different or is it similar to the way you and Mike approached the show back in the day, Because a lot of people don't necessarily remember, in my opinion, you guys were the origin of what the modern day debate shows have become. So this is not a new thing for you. Is doing first take different or is it similar to what you did with Mike and the Mad Dog back in the day.

it's very rarely just at two of us. It's more of a trilogy per se. So I from that standpoint, it is a little different. But the from that from the amount of people. But I mean, the idea is the same. The idea is to move the needle. The idea is to give obviously your opponent a chance to talk. Your idea is to you know, give your opinion and hopefully it's organic enough and hopefully it's a situation where it's spurs debate, and hopefully it's opposite with your opponent.

But I mean it's the same idea holds both ways, same idea holds both ways.

relevant at all. And you know, four Playoffs appearances in five years back to back fifty win seasons for the first time since ninety four ninety five, first Eastern Conference appearance since two thousand and It's been so fun for me to watch this team rise to relevance again and reconnect with a lot of my friends that I grew up up with back Eastern Southern Connecticut and the surrounding area. And no part of me thought that he was in

danger of losing his job. And I will allow and concede that I think he was probably up coach in the Eastern Conference Finals by one of the best coaches in pro basketball who's now in the NBA Finals. That we'll get to the finals in a moment. But what was your reaction when you heard the news that Tom had lost his job? And now that's been a few days. Why do you think it happened, and who do you think was behind the decision?

next one will be that way as well with Oka. See, but the whole series obviously turned on the whole situation with the with the with Game one with the fourteenth point lead, and the Natesmith making all those threes there and the you know, in the last thirty to fifty eight seconds of that game, and then of course the two miss vetos and the shot that Halburton took that bounced high and went in, and then overtime. The whole series changed with that.

I thought they beat Indiana, I thought it would be a.

his is it. I would said if Jim Dolan wanted Tom Thibodeau to be his head coach, he would have told Rose and Worldwide West guys, nice guys, just as you said Spence back to back Eastern back to back fifty one years, I mean Eastern Conference final. I mean there's only two teams in the NBA who had better years that we did.

was definitely surprised. I don't think he saw this coming, and nor did anybody else. By the way, here in New York City.

his elbow from as you know what. And I thought, to your point, go build your sphere, go play your kazoo, go be in your band, stay out of it. Let the grown ups run the team. And this, to me is a couple of steps in the wrong direction. And it just reeks of Isaiah Thomas, Mike D'Antoni, Derek Fisher, Kurt Rambus, Jeff horniseack like and all of those people are you know, solid guys, and some are good coaches. And Mike Woodson did a good job for a minute

there in New York. But it's almost like they reverted back to the emotional decision making that made them irrelevant for two decades after you finally built something up. And we'll see what happens moving forward, because the roster is still solid and they have a lot of good players. But these types of decisions are exactly why they were basically irrelevant for nearly twenty five years, you know.

Worldwide West has done nothing in his career, no rings, he hasn't won any college championships, He's never built a team, so the fact that but he's you know, he works for Rose so you wouldn't think he'd go over Roses head go right to Dolan. So that's why it's very puzzling. It's a very very strange decision. Nobody here can quite figure it out. You know, where they go now for a head coach? I mean again, you know, I don't think they want Mike Brown. I don't think they want

Mike Malone. You know, I thought maybe Billy Donovan because he would be maybe easier to get. We'll see what kid. They know they're not getting the Houston coach.

I feel like they were put together with the idea of Boston maybe having one or two more years and then they're going to have to break their roster down because the new ownership group probably doesn't want to ride a luxury tax check of five hundred million dollars just to have the team. And so when the Celtics are broken down that I felt like this Nick team was ready to take that step. So I really think Tom actually brought them ahead of schedule this year going to

the Eastern Conference Finals. But I think if they want to win a championship, they have a roster construction issue they have to figure out, and I think it comes down to Cat. Now, Kat just played some of the best basketball that I've ever seen him play in the spring. Okay, so I want to give him credit for that. But defensively, I mean, we talk a lot about Nie Smith making

his threes in Game one. Those were walking practice threes with not a lot of defensive pushback, and more often than not, the only time I thought the Knicks had a chance in the series is when they were actually guarding. Now, this is not a team in the ILK of nineteen ninety five. Charles Oakley's not walking through that door, et cetera, et cetera. But I think if they want to take the next step, they've got a roster issue, and I

think it comes down to Cat. Do you think they look at a deal for a Durant or a deal for a Giannis? I mean, even Lowry markin out here in Salt Lake is available. I'm not saying that makes sense, But if they want to take the next step, it doesn't matter if their coaches Tom Thibodeau, Jason Kidd, whoever. I think they have a roster construction issue. Do you think they adjust and pivot with their personnel this offseason?

what they can. They have no draft picks. Based on that Bridger's trade, they only got a five I don't pay too much attention to this capologist nonsense, but they only got a five and a half million dollar mid level exception. And the other thing you got to remember with the next what would they bring in here?

got Indiana. I mean, there's nobody else East thinks. So that puts an awful lot of pressure on a coach coming in here knowing that he'd better get to an NBA final if he doesn't want to hear from the fans. So, I mean, I think they're in a little bit of

a tough spot. I completely agree, and I think they put more pressure on themselves with this decision, which I think is it puts It's gonna make everybody say, well, now you fire Thibodau and he even gets to the final, how come the next guy loses in the second round, how does he stay? So I think that plays into two. Remember before Thibodeau, they had twelve coaches.

I mean, maybe they beat Oklahoma City, and maybe they beat oklahomas and easier than they beat the Knicks after what we saw in Game one, where they continually do these miracle pullbacks and win these crazy games. And you know, I wasn't not impressed in Olahoma City last night. Who gave up, by the way, sixty something points in the second half. I'm allowed Indiana to shoot fifty two percent. So the idea that no.

and Rudy Gobert. Were about to enter our fourth year of a rebuild after Ryan Smith bought the team from the Millers and Danny Ainge left the Celtics for the Jazz Austin as Danny Sun was just hired to run basketball operations. But I wanted to get your take, mister Russo on the lottery situation.

a jazz you're crazy and I don't like it. And if you're a Utah fan, you know Flag's the one guy you want to get. He's the one, at least on paper, the one guy there that is the transformational player. And he goes to a team that you know, traded Luca and they end up getting another kid now the next year, seventeen years of age. That's why I don't know why kid would have to leave when he's got this guy for the next fifteen years.

he very much wants to do. But I think the tough thing for us out here in Salt Lake is we're looking at an NBA finals with Oklahoma City in Indianapolis, and over the past five or six years, teams in Milwaukee and Denver have been able to win championships in Minnesota has a good team, and Denver still will have something to say about it as long as they have Nicola Jokic. We've entered mad dog, this era of parody where teams in smaller cities have been able to build

up really, really competitive and championship level teams. And I think I'm just afraid that, you know, the Jazz are going to miss out on this opportunity to build a championship team during this era where teams in smaller markets have been able to do just that.

only about ten or twelve out there. You know, Giannis is one of them, indeed, healthy as one of them. We all know about Jokic, he's certainly one of them, Luca probably one of them.

a couple of tough series. So it's it's tricky. I mean, it's it's very, very hard to win these championships.

how this ends. I am so impressed with them, and I'm so impressed with Rick Carlisle. No part of me will ever be able to cheer for the Indiana Pacers. But last night made things really interesting. I think I'm still leaning okay see, but after last night, what say you about these NBA Finals?

the last basket of the game. You know, I thought, okay see, in six, I did think Indiana would be very competitive in this series.

See was very familiar with Denver. They're not as familiar with Indiana, so this would be And I think Indiana in game two, well they got doing game two. Don't get blown out, you know, don't throw away that first game by getting killed in game two. I think Denver kind of did that in that second game where they got destroyed and never competitive. Don't let Oklahoma City have

an easy game. Put stress on them. Make that game anybody's game with eight minutes to go, and if you lose, you lose, but you make Oklahoma City get little nervous. And I think that would be interesting to see how okay See handles that.

it's got a chance to be a good series. Now, how's a chance?

at all. Ultimately, he has been hired as the new basketball excuse me, the new president of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz, and Ryan Smith himself said during the press conference that this is now the loudest voice in our front office. This is Austin show. He has final say, meaning his dad reports to him, meaning Justin Zanik, the general manager, reports to him. So it's not as topical as some of the other things we'll get into, but

we are in Salt Lake City. Howard, what's your reaction of the hire that was made this week?

see the press conference. I saw a couple of the comments from from Austin about not wanting to take anymore, but that should be what anybody would say at the stage. That's not surprising how this all works, whether it's chain of command, whether it's what the philosophy is now why they felt they needed another executive in there. I'm honestly, you know more than I do right now. I am still trying to get a grasp of it, but I'm busy running between NBA Finals.

It doesn't matter who your coach is, it doesn't matter who your front office is. But for a team that's won thirty three percent of their games for the last four years, to extend their coach and extend their belief in the front office, I suppose that is an approach that does lead to stability in hopefully given time, the

right choices are made. So again, while the product on the court continues to suffer and they've got to find players, at least, what Ryan and Ashley have elected to do is lock in a coaching staff in a front office for a number of years. If we can look at that as any sort of a positive, I.

them if they're not doing it. But you've already hired some of the smartest people around like, just you know, and you've signed off on the let's blow up the team we had with Mitchell and Gobert. Let's go into what was I think, frankly kind of a you know, a half hearted rebuild slash, well we're going to retool on the fly thing that I, as you know, I never thought was the right idea that you're either all in or all out, and they needed to just be all in on the tank from the start. This is

the first season they really embraced that. I thought they should have been doing it the last couple of years, and then at backfires to the extent that they did not get the top pick in the draft or even a top three pick, And at some point you have to kind of, you know, decide what is our way out of the morass the unfortunate thing. And Zach Loh and I just talked about this on his pod that'll be posting later today, so people can go listen to us talk about the jazz quite a bit on that.

But you know the difficulty is whatever you decide to do, whether you're trying to augment around lowry marketing, or whether you decide the actual path forward is to trade lowery market in nothing is getting you back in the mix in the near future anyway, because most of the teams ahead of them are firmly ahead of them. Then there's no obvious teams to just really you know, fall off a cliff. So you probably need to be patient anyway.

And I think back to your premise and your question or statement about just the the you know, vote of confidence in this group and having continuity. Continuity is good when you have the right people, and they have the right people. I think they have the right coach. I think they have the right front office. Austin Ainge and I have only met a couple times over the years. I don't know him well, but you know, obviously he

and Danny both really smart basketball people. I know, justin a smart basketball person, you've got the right people in place, and then sometimes it just takes a little bit of patients planning, a little good luck, a little opportunism. But they're in a very difficult spot because they happen to be in a Western conference that's absolutely act where even the teams that are not contenders are really strong and

it's just hard to leapfrog anybody. So you do have to look at your time horizon and say, where is our opportunity to jump back in the mix, because it's not tomorrow, it's not this next season.

this roster. If they decide to go best foot forward and play the Vets seventy seventy five games, Marketing plays, Kessler, plays Collins Sexton, all the Vets play seventy seventy five games, or whatever the fear I think in the approach of simply okay, we are going to try to compete, which I think is a good thing when you look at the lack of integrity they use to approach the unserious competition element of the organization a year ago. I mean, you do want to see the team you cheer for

to try hard every night. But if we're sitting in your next spring and they've won thirty five games, and Mark Tatum pulls out the number nine envelope and it's the Jazz and that goes to Okay. See that's a massive step, Howard in the wrong direction.

The fine line between that and quote unquote tanking is the scenario you just outlined. And it's interesting.

lowry marketing to be somewhere else. And he's got value around the league, and there are teams that, you know, maybe lowery marketing a way from going from play into play or from six seed to four seed or whatever. He's a great, complimentary star, but he's not a leading man.

And you know, I don't know what you'd get if you put him on the market tomorrow, but I think whatever you got, would you know, put you that much further along toward whatever the next era will be, because I don't think that he's part of the next winning or at least not the next high level winning team.

guy and Leon was his agent. I would venture to guess that a guy like Tom Thibodeau probably does not like a guy very much who goes by the moniker of Worldwide West. I can understand that. And they have an owner that has a reputation of making rash decisions based off of emotion in the moment, which is why they've been irrelevant for twenty five years. I think it's

so dumb, and we'll see what happens next. But throughout the course of your conversations, what were the reasons and who ultimately was behind this decision to let go of Tom Tibodeau.

Jalen Brunson is the most important reason. Tims is among the important reasons.

They got players who were grinders and who would respond to a Tibb's type of approach where this so he deserves, like Timms is all the credit in the world, in addition to obviously everybody else I just named.

But I think that the reservations that the front office had, and I'm loathed as much as I've covered the next over the last twenty years and been in New York, I'm loth ever dismissed the possibility this is just Dolan being Dolan, But I don't think that that was what was going on in this case. I think this was Leon Rose and Leon and Tibbs have been you know, tight for a long time too. Obviously Leon's the one

who hired him. I think there was a consensus conclusion in that front office that all the things that you and I already know about tips, or that the criticisms that we've all heard, that those things were a concern, whether it's the minutes for the starters, the lack of trust in the bench, the lack of development of the bench, and then finally going to the bench kind of a too little, too late scenario in the conference finals, which just underscored why you should have been playing them sooner,

because these guys have had very little run and very little time to get comfortable with each other or with the rest of that lineup. There's also you know, in today's NBA we talk a lot about alignment. You want the front office and coach to kind of have a similar vision. Doesn't always happen. We saw how badly that can go in Denver with Michael Malone and Calvin Booth basically blowing each other up, and they both got fired.

And that goes back to again developing the bench. You need you know, again Denver and New York both you need a coach who's going to trust the front office's investment in certain players in the front office needs to trust the coach and then develop them. So there's all these things, and I think there were moments over the last couple of years, pre dating the actual firing, where there were conversations about is he the right coach to

still go forward with. I've also talked to a couple of coaches around the league the last couple of days, and these are coaches who strongly admire TIBs, other veterans who have been around a long time, and who basically told me, listen, there are some limits because of the way he coaches and because of the style that he coaches and like, look at Jalen Brunton and how much he dominates the ball and you want to put it on brunts and you could say that, but the coaches

is the one who decides how to what style of play. They are very half oriented, but they also like I think tops in the league in shots taken in the final seconds of the shot clock, and the deeper in the shot clock you go, the lower efficiency the shots are, so that they need more innovation in that offense. They need to empower Mchail Bridges and Karl Anthony townsmore after acquiring those guys, and they can both do stuff with the ball in their hands. Like there are fair criticisms

of TIBs and the limitations that came with him. That was a very long winded answer.

my opinion, and I think it's hard. The criticisms about Tom waiting until the Pacers series to dust some of these guys off totally fair because we had Delon right out here.

them a little in the regular season. And the thing with Tips has always been he plays every single game and you could spin this positive, spin this negative, but he plays every single game like the fate of the universe depends on it. He wants to win every single game. And I think that was really beneficial to the Knicks at a time when they were just trying to become respectable again, competitive again. But it backfires potentially when you're at a stage like this where you need guys a

little fresher for the playoffs. Other teams are really you know, their their depth is not just because they got better players, but because they invested in those players and played them a lot. And now your guys are gassed when their guys are fresh, because they're going ten deep and you're going seven. And so I you know, there's always a little bit of blame to go around on something like this. I do think their bench could be better, should be better.

But I also think that TIB's waited too long. And you know that's again, that's only one piece of this. When I when I was there, was a coach I was talking to the other day, again, somebody's been around a long time. Assistant coach, has been in a lot of different stats, coached under a lot of different coaches, and he said that Tom was coaching like it was still the nineties. And I said, whoa like? You mean offensively, he goes both sides And that was a little surprising to me.

Orlando or whatever, so they'll be in the mix. But based off of what I perceived to be a roster that needs a lot of work, If a coach takes over for Tom and goes back to the Eastern Conference Finals, I'd be widely impressed because I think Tom really did something that nobody saw coming even a little bit of a head of schedule, that they actually got to the Eastern Conference Finals. And I think we've all heard a lot of the names out there. Who do you think ultimately they land on Howard and why?

out of his deal. The Knicks don't have a lot of first round picks to spare after sending all those picks to the nets for mkhail Bridges, so giving up draft capital doesn't seem like a wise move to go get a coach who I don't know if Jason Kids an upgrade over Tom like he's different. Whoever they get may not be necessarily quote unquote demonstrably better, but just different, right, And I think different as what they're looking for right now, just a hunch on my part, I think Taylor Jenkins

makes a lot of sense for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they went that direct. I don't think it'll be Michael Malone for reasons that I've already kind of alluded to. And I just think that what they're looking for now is somebody who one is more of a relationships guy. That's not Tibbs's repid reputed strength. So relationships, whether it's you know, the front office, players, whatever, somebody

who's a little bit more of a relationships guy. A communicator, and then to somebody who might be a little bit more innovative, I would say not more than maybe, but is more innovative on the offensive end and is going to do more to make this less brunts and centric, and assuming that Bridges and Towns are still on the roster, utilize those guys because you know, they put a lot in to get those guys and to diversify the offense. This is one of the most expensive starting fives in

the NBA and for good reason. Yeah, the bench, you know, we we've talked about, but like it's because they're top heavy and there's more I think ability to exploit that talent. Then we saw this.

how this goes down. There are so many Bull's eyes. We could aim at Howard, but I'll give you the space. What were your takeaways from watching yet another Indiana comeback and then being up one zero in the NBA Finals?

course he's gonna make it. This is just what he does now, Tyres Haliburton has become one of the best postseason clutch shooters of all time in the space of about a month, like these were all like iconic, incredible shots and stretches of shots, and it's it's it's remarkable. The guys just cold blooded and what a fun moment. Unless you're a thunder fan, this is one of the loudest I think it might be deloud us to read in the NBA. I hadn't been here a long time.

I'd forgotten, and just last night it was a rude reminder of just like how much it hurts your ears, and you know, to be able to silence that place

is a feat into itself. I don't know there's anything to drop in that game basketball wise, only because like, not because it's fluky, but it's because like you can talk about all the adjustments and schemes and everything in the world, and yes, there are there are, you know, things that that the thunder could have done better here or there where you know, one basket would have made a difference and they don't lose.

who you know everything revolves around me. Gayalen Brunson would be another one, or you know certain versions of Trey Young, like Halliburton part he's more like Steve Nash where he's gonna like get the ball up court quickly. He's gonna make those hit ahead passes. He's gonna pass it early in the shot clock and then maybe it'll come back to him and maybe it won't, but it sets the

tone for the whole team. And so his selflessness is part of the the allure there where he can do some things with the ball in his hands, but he's not the classic I'm just gonna like, you know, back you down, or like beat you off the dribble or you know, iso at the elbow, and like it's not revolving around him. He's not gonna dominate the ball and dominate the offense and then he's got this funky, unconventional shot, but he's he's such a embrace the moment kind of player.

There are guys who can average twenty five thirty but aren't necessarily that great in the clutch and maybe don't necessarily want those moments again, James Harden comes to mind, and then Halliburton's the inverse where he's not high usage. He's not gonna necessarily dominate the ball or drop thirty five every night, though he's capable of doing it on occasion,

but he's gonna play a really efficient game. He's going to keep the ball moving, he empowers his teammates, and then when it's showtime and it's crunch time, there's no shot that's too big for him or.

one for one. Oklahoma City has already been installed as a ten point five point favorite on Sunday night, So I know you're not big on prediction, but as far as what you saw last night, do you do you feel like you know there's still a genuine possibility that OKAC makes this a short series. Does it feel like it's gonna be long with a lot of really close, fun games.

see that play out. So probably the thunder and five that you and I both picked is probably not the case. But thunder and six certainly feels like a possibility. But like I mean, there's a certain point where, no matter how many times we see it, we're still a little not just skeptical the Pacers. It's not disrespect just like, yeah, the thunder just have more there's more reasons to believe

in them than the Pacers at this stage. But when the Pacers have done what they've done over and over again to find expectations so many times, taken down all these teams that were higher ranked and with better records, at a certain point, maybe we should just sit back and say this series is not as clear cut as we thought it was, and maybe the Pacers can win this thing. And look, they stole home court advantage, hit they won in one of the toughest buildings in the NBA. I'm done predicting.

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they have their their their lane. But yeah, that that kind of uh says, the kind of shows the delineation there.

arguing on the internet with strangers. It's a sign of mental illness in my opinion, and it really does turn into you know, mentally ild people throwing their feces at each other. But if you get in a rabbit hole,

I can fall down as much as anybody else. And when I first heard our guys land law A, I thought it was fake b respectfully, I thought there was something wrong with them, right, But see I couldn't stop watching videos, like they would send out videos of their live performance just stoked that they got like booked into some bar and the lead singer would turn the fun around. There's like seven people in the venue that probably didn't know that this fake country band was there to play music.

ironic tie into it. And yeah, the folks you were talking about are are two brothers I believe somewhere in the South who are just the corniest, silliest.

new basketball commit. He is a point guard. His name is Ela Marie Abby. He is a finish point guard. So Elamrie Abby becomes the ninth edition to the new running Utes roster. So, of course Alex Jensen the new staff. A lot of attention is down south right now, with Kevin Young receiving a contract extension and aj Debons on his way as the number one recruit in the country. They've got a team. If I had guess pre season by U was gonna be scratching in the top five.

Like that's how talented that roster is. And when it comes to the University of Utah with his new project Project under Al, it's gonna take time. It's gonna take time, it's gonna take patience. I'm sure you basketball fans are sick of that. I'm certainly not gonna sit here and be the radio host that tells you I watch finish basketball when I'm done with the show, I don't know. I don't know anything about this kid, but we'll just kind of go over some of the pieces of information.

So he comes to the University of Utah from Finland's top basketball league, and they have some good basketball in Finland, obviously, Larry Marketing six foot, one hundred and eighty pounds, twenty seven games average, twenty point six boards, five assists, and twenty seven minutes of action. Those are really good numbers. Uh, forty eight point five percent from the floor, twenty seven percent from three, not good fifty seven percent from two.

So if you look at some of these highlights, he's pretty crafty around the rim.

I would give him all five of those years. This is going to take some time, and of course, when you juxtaposted to what BYU's been able to do and only one year under Kevin Young. If that's how you view, if that's your prism, you know, whatever Utah does, what's by you doing, It's going to take a long long time before al has a situation where Kevin Young was able to, you know, cultivate things pretty quickly in one year. So there you go a little bit of University of

Utah basketball news. As a finished point guard named Ella Murrie Abbey is committed to play for Alex Jensen the University of Utah. All right, The updates their top one hundred players in pro basketball rather often. They updated it today and clearly they updated it to put Tyree Saliburton

in their top ten. So, according to the Ringer, as of today, their top ten basketball players in pro basketball number one, Nikola Jokich, number two, Shay Gilgess, Alexander number three, Giannis number four, Luca number five, Steph number six, ant Tyree Saliburton at seven, now Donovan Mitchell at eight, Top ten player Jazz traded when he was twenty five, Jalen Brunton at nine, Jason Tatum is a ten, Victor Wambayamo eleven.

Lebron's at twelve, ad at thirteen kevindurand fourteen that it goes Kawhi caid Evan Mobley, Karl Anthony Towns, Devin Booker, Jalen Williams. There's your Top twenty. The Utah Jazz are the only team in pro basketball, according to the Ringer, with a single player in the top one hundred. They're the only team in the NBA that does not have a player in the top fifty. Lowry Marketing is the only Jazz player in the Ringers Top one hundred. He comes in at fifty three. That feels low in my opinion.

But yeah, they ultimately update this rather consistently, and I was surprised to see. I thought Lowry would be somewhere in the early thirties. Maybe Walker sneaks in the top one hundred, but this is coming off a season where neither of those two played every game they should have, and their minutes were limited, and Walker was encouraged to shoot a bunch of threes down the stretch when the Jazz got fined for sitting their players, so they had

to find another way to be unserious about competing. But that dropped not too long ago. The Ringers Top one hundred players in the NBA. All right, time now for our U went to Golf PGA Tour update as far as the leaderboard goes, and the world of the PGA Tour has their eyes on the RBC Canadian Open, TPC Toronto at Ospbrey Valley is their north course. Cameron, who want a corn ferry events here in our market? Is your leader through two rounds at twelve hundred par, Andrew

Putnam at ten under par. Then a couple of Canucks, a couple of Canadians Richard Lee and Nick Taylor at nine under. Let's see Shane Lowry might be the biggest name. He's at eight hunderd par. Bill sam Burns is up there as well. So it is the RBC Canadian Open, and that is your You went to Golf PGA Tour Leaderboard update. Check him out at Worldwide Golf Shops dot com. Five U Tadler. You went to locations. They've got the best deals on callaway titleist Taylor Taylor made and Ping

Bushnell as well for the range fighter stuff. All right, let's welcome in Colton now head brewer at Roosters on a Friday, Colton, Happy Friday Man, how are you.

on draft all the locations. And yeah, we're going to be having an old food favorites up on special all summer and all that. So I'll get this some stop in check stuff out.

Cheers to thirty years our good friends at Rooster's Brewing.

Pacers team. And I just hate the Pacers, but I'm just so impressed that they just don't quit until the Zeros are on that clock you take away from Game one.

fifteen or more. It's just absurd. And and there's a point where I have to think that even a team like the Thunder, you know, there's a point where you're up double digits and it's getting late into the fourth quarter, and then once they get into that single digit territory, You've got to know what's possible here, right, not just because it's an NBA game, because it's this Pacers team.

And it wasn't just Tyre's Haliverton going nuts, it was obi top and hit some threes, and Miles Turner hit some threes, and Nemhart hit a shot and Pascal Siaskon got to rebound it. It's just it's everybody, you know, no one had a good game. Everyone just had solid games last night. And for you to force them into twenty five turnovers and only get eleven points off those turnovers is ridiculous. I mean, that is just incredible, you know,

incredible basketball by the Pacers. It's rare. It's almost incomprehensible to say a team played great basketball after turning the ball over twenty five times. But they reacted well to those moments. Because we've seen so many teams, i mean throughout this playoffs, the Memphis Grizzlies, the Denver Nuggets, the Minnesota Timberwolves, they get those turnovers and they just let it defeat them. And the Pacers they're just not built that way.

pushes it to three. And obviously you can easily tie the game on the next possession, but we know that the thunder are then going to foul and we're going to get into that whole nonsense of intentional fouls there, right, So as he goes up for I'm thinking, all right, he's he's got this. They've got this. Once that goes in once that missed and they got the ball to Halliburn and I saw they weren't calling time out. That's when I thought, oh no, this is going to happen again.

And then they didn't throw a double at Hallie, they didn't rush him at all. They let him just walk into a pull up jumper. And as soon as he let that thing go, you just knew. You just knew, because he's done it for you know, four times now in this postseason. I mean, that guy is just as clutch as it gets. He is.

say that, I'm not having that with the Bucks. They were beating the Bucks in that series, no matter what. I'm not having that with the Calves. They're beating the Calves no matter what. Like that Caves team is weak. And then and then you know, that Knick series was really good. I think it could have gone either way in a lot of those games, and they ended up pulling it out because he was great. And this is a guy that is an elite leader on the court.

He's an elite clutch player. He's one of the best point guards in the world, and you trust him with the ball, and I'm with you, Like there's points where you're like, man, is he going to put his stamp on this game? You know, as that game's going on, And I'm not putting him in this category, but he's you know, we see that with Steph Curry at times too, right, Like Steph will kind of just kind of buy his time by this time. By this time, I think Tyree's kind of lets the game come to him until a

certain point. And a big part of that is while Steph is creating gravity, you know through his movement and everything, Tyreese is just he's slinging that thing around the court, and he played good defense and as you mentioned, he rebounded really well. You know, he's someone that is still contributing to winning basketball, and I think he is a big part of the reason why they don't give up. Even if he's not one hitting the shots, he's leading that whole thing.

still We're still in the game. And for about man, I don't know, maybe forty minutes of the forty eight, Oklahoma City seemed to be in this like we're up between seven and thirteen and we can't extend it beyond that. But every time they kind of creep closer, you know, we're able to find an answer but because of their inability to turn those turnovers into points. I'm watching the score and I'm thinking, like, this is so far from over.

So if you're Indiana, you could feel really good about the fact that you're up one zero and you turned it over that much. But do you believe that Oklahoma City will continue to have a problem converting turnovers into points because they've been so elde at it all year long?

And all those came in the first half. So he corrected that at halftime, like he didn't have one in the second half, I believe, And so you know, like Obi Toping looked like he was he was so scared in the first half, and then he settles down hits a bunch of three from the second half, like you know, Nee Smith looks scared in the first half, Miles Turner looks scared in the first like they look like, oh you know, it hit them, like, oh man, we're in

the finals. And then they settled down. I think that's coaching. I think that's leadership, and I think that's the team that is confident that, hey, we can keep coming back.

every time. I know they're five and three this year or this postseason, when they get down fifteen points or more in a game, which is a ridiculous stat and so you don't want to keep doing that, especially not against a team like the Thunder, but the fact that they are so comfortable down and I gotta think like even a team like the Thunder, they could be up double digits in the fourth quarter in Game two at home, and if that thing gets to single digits, I don't

care how good and confident that team is. That thing starts getting the single digits and they miss a shot here and there, you know that they're thinking, oh no, here it goes again. Because we just saw that with Cleveland, we saw it with New York. We're you know we saw it with Okay, see last night, you have to start thinking that.

like that's cash miss, is it? They get the board ten seconds left, so they get it to Halliburton, and look, Cason Wallace is a dog and he's a good on ball defender, but you want dort On Halliburton in that moment, you just do. And so I wonder because my thought in the moment was Rick saw that Cason picks up Halliburton and likes that matchup because Cason sixty three and Halliburton sixty five. And it's not dort it's not Jalen, it is Case and so let's let him do his thing.

Is that how you read that final possession as well?

Wallas is. I mean, I think if he got more menaces here, he's probab or all defense, right, he's probably all defense second team, like he is that good defensively. The problem is Halliburton going to his right, like that's where his sweet spot is, right, He's not one of those guys that takes that jumper going to his left. I think Kaylan Cooper does an amazing job covering the Pacers.

I think she wrote it something like like a five to one ratio in terms of him going to his right and taking jump shots, some ridiculous stat like that. And so that's where he wants to go. He didn't really have to do a step back or anything like he just kind of he just kind of dribbles into that thing. The question I have for Mark Dagno, like

where is the double? Where is the swarm? Like you can't help from the from the corner there as he's going towards the right, I would send anybody else at him. You can't, like anyone else on that team, you get to have the game winning shot. I am not giving that to Halliburton. Anyone Nee Smith, Turner, Siakam, anyone else gets to have that shot. Halliburton doesn't get to get a shot off there. And I think I think we saw both with the change in the starting lineup for

literally no reason. I mean, I thought that was a huge mistake to start off by Mark Daignold, and then some of that coaching down the stretch, especially that final defensive possession. I think you just saw a little bit of that inexperience there.

handle physicality, that's always been his thing. I don't know if it's too big for the moment, at least for Game one case and starts Isaiah comes off the bench. Do you think we'll see that in Game two? Or does he go back to the two bigs together.

I don't get it, Like you shouldn't. You're the favorite, You're the most dominant team regular season NBA history, sixty eight wins. No one can touch you in any of these things. You've got, you know, four different thirty point wins in these in this postseason. Why are you adjusting to the Indiana Pacers before the series even starts? I

just I didn't understand that at all. I think you go out there and by putting Chet at the four and using your regular starting lineup, Yeah, Chet's probably gonna struggle a little bit, Garden Siakam, but you've got help, and you've got big help, and they've got a great, you know, big to big thing going on offense too, where you know that's that's gonna be really tough for Indiana to guard. I just I thought that was a massive mistake on so many levels on both ends of

the floor. And then even in their in their rotations, I couldn't believe how how staggered those rotations were with those two because I think, you know, against Indiana, you kind of got to be bullies there. I mean we saw with New York when it was when it was cad Mitchell Rompson, like, yes, they lost that series, but when those two were on the floor together, it kind of works at times. And with Chet and Hartnsteint, I think you have to believe that that's going to work against Indiana.

see is thirteenth and three point percentage. But if so, we've talked about why Indiana feels good today, because of course they should tell me, if anything, why you think Oklahoma City should still feel good about their chance to answer to win the series based off of what happened last night.

next game. I think you have to believe you're going to create more points off those turnovers, because I think the stat I saw going into last night's game is they were scoring like one point three six points per possession on steals during the postseason, which is a ridiculous number. I mean, it's like it's like scoring one hundred and thirty six points per one hundred possessions, which would which

would be an insane level of offensive efficiency. So like you have to think that as as you're creating live ball turnovers, you are going to convert those. Shay had a good game, Chet was miserable. Jaalen Williams shot the ball really poorly. No one else really stepped up outside of lou Dort, you know, hitting those threes. So I think you have to think, I believe, like you didn't play that good of a game and you still should have won, and you missed on essentially a last second shot.

You missed that opportunity. So they can play a lot better, and they and they typically do play a lot better, and we've seen how they bounce back. I mean they lost Game one to Denver at home and then came back and won by like forty three points, so we know that they'll respond. You just have to I just do not think that they can keep up with this altered lineup. I think they have to go back to what works for them.

the turnovers, which they rarely rarely do. I'm I'm more uneasy with the changes that Okay See made and not to keep like you know, hammering that point home. But I need to see how they adjust in Game two and if they go back to their regular style, because I just I really don't like when the team changes up that kind of strategy. It reminds me a little bit.

This is gonna be, you know, kind of extreme. But remember when when the Mavericks, you know, back in two thousand and seven, just all of a sudden started changing everything they did against that Warriors team that we believe Warriors team. You know, they got what they got away from their identity pretty quickly in that series. And Don Nelson knew at that point. He's like, oh, we you know,

we got this. And so I think that I think that that that's a little bit of a reminder here of if the Thunder keep adjusting to what Indiana is doing rather than adjusting what they do, which I think there's a big difference. I do think the Thunder might be in trouble.

underestimating that Pacers team. And I think that's I think it kind of set back that that kind of feeling of hey, we got to get to the conference finals or or better in order for him to keep his job. I don't really know what this thing is. I don't think that he had. I know, everyone's like, you gotta play your bench. You got to play your bench. What bench? The one with Cameron Paynt and Landry Shammon on it, Like I know Landry Shammon had an okay series against Indiana.

He's not good, right like they like you're you were relying on Delon Wright to kind of turn back the clock a little bit, and he did, and he played well, but he doesn't have much of a bench to utilize there. And it's not to make excuses. I still think he needs to coach better, and I think he needs to, you know, rely on the depths, you know, of what he's given a lot more because we're just talking about

a couple of minutes here and there. But this seemed to be decided no matter what, short of a finals run.

He's obviously a very smart coach, but we don't know what that looks like.

with it. I just I don't and and if that's if that's the issue within your organization, then I don't think you have the right players.

starting five. But if they're gonna do anything else, I think they've got a cat problem. Do you think they get involved in the Durant stuff, the honest stuff? Do you think they try to tinker make it deeper or change things up top as well?

to KD. He's great, He's better than CAT. I don't understand how that fixes their issues. This is a team that can't can't defend the paint. This is a team that can't defend on the perimeter.

that is a that is something that solves anything. If they could go get Yannest, sure that's an improvement that starts to fill in some of those gaps, but they can't go get him.

not do that here. You will not see it this year. All find him good. But when you have a top eight protected pick that goes to Oklahoma City, if you are below eight, then you've got some interesting roster decisions to make. What do you think? So, if we take Austin at his word, they're no longer tanking or manipulating minutes, I think it's paramount for them to hold on to

that draft asset next year in that draft class. But if he is now the guy calling the shots and that is his ethos, what do you think this looks like for the Jazz this year.

but they technically wouldn't be tanking. I mean, this is a team that needs to continue to bottom out to go find one of those guys. I just I don't I don't think, I mean, I don't know, Like the approach just doesn't make sense to me when there are those potential stars, and I think this is just a product of we thought we were going to put ourselves

in the position to get one of these guys. We ended up with the fifth pick or what yeah, fifth pick or whatever they end up with, and and now like, oh man, we can't do that again and sell it for with good pr Sometimes you got to just be uncomfortable, right Like, they just need to be uncomfortable for another year and see if it works again, and then if it doesn't, okay, then you adjust and you start making some deals with some of the draft picks and some

of the players that you have and you and you lean on development. But you know, the whole press conference thing is meaningless. You can say all that stuff, and you can you can do all this stuff, but the roster's the roster. It doesn't matter if you want to take or not. If this is basically what it's going to be going into next season, you know, save any any kind of you know, massive changes to that roster like yeah, okay, you're not taking You're not good.

at tak hoops. You gonna bring in an old buddy, Gordon Monson coming up on the other side of a break, but before we catch a break and other old friends. Once upon a time, I was out at his place with Gordon quite a bit. It's Rydan from the Dish Bros. You give him a call at eight oh one four two four Dish. You save a bunch of money on a bunch of different things. What's going on, Ryan?

They've got all of the streaming apps available within the system. So you've got one remote switch back from traditional TV straight to streaming, easy and simple, and you get the best price guarantee. We call us plus we'll throw in dinner at jcw's.

him as well. So your reaction and what you think this means for the Utah Jazz is they're going to try to continue this rebuild that's into your four without a lot of far retraction.

grow up, you know, and they turn into adults. And I think Austin names is a fairly capable guy, so we'll see what he can do.

But because they do, the worst possible thing that could happen this year is the Jazz winning like thirty five games and we're all sitting here next spring and Mark Tatum pulls out the envelope and says, the number nine pick in the draft belongs to the Utah Jazz, meaning it belongs to the Oklahoma City Thunder. They have to maintain that asset. Gordo, that's my opinion. Give me your thoughts on it, And if so, what do you think this year is going to look like?

don't think he's quite at Sam Presty's level. I mean what that guy did to build that team, you know, trading two all stars and then freeing up some flexibility. That sounds familiar Jazz fans. I mean it is sort of what the Jazz are looking at now what they did. But what's the difference. Okac got an MVP, he's traded for an MVP, and whether the Jazz can find that kind of leadership, I really don't know. And you have to get lucky, but you has to be. Here's the thing.

Austin Ainge has to be smarter than just about everybody else in the league. Is he Is he at that level?

One is turned into Jalen Williams. But the fact of the matter is, look, I know that when they traded Mitchell. When the Jazz traded Mitchell, there was this celebration of the hall they got in return. I don't think they got enough. I really don't, and I like Lowry. The Ringer just released our top one hundred players in the NBA. The Jazz have one on the list. It's Lowry who's fifty three, and Donovan Mitchell is twenty eight years old in his prime. He's the eighth best player in pro

basketball according to The Ringer. So look, there are still draft picks that can be conveyed. They had some other pieces in that deal. Colin Saxton has been fine for the Jazz. Oh Chiobaji was good in Toronto. Didn't work out here, but Sam Presty and the Indiana Front Office turned Paul George into cornerstones, and I don't know that the Jazz did that with Donovan, who is a top ten player in his prime.

I'm sure you've broken down what they do offensively.

in order to enjoy it. I mean, what these teams do that game the last night was what basketball fan wouldn't love that.

It's that that really adds to the you know, the color features of the game.

But Indiana has done this a little bit differently because they were able to get Pascal Siakam when Toronto decided to yard sale, and they you know, and they already had Halliburton on the roster. Miles Turner has been there forever. Aaron Ne Smith was a Celtic but couldn't get off the bench. So like they drafted Benedict Matherin Andrew Nemhard but they have not got about this the same way

Oklahoma City has. The bad news for the Jazz is at this point the jury is still out on all of their picks, so I can say the good news is they're not. The only top three pick in the finals is chet Holmgren. But whether it's top three, top five, top ten, top fifteen, both rounds, you have to draft the right players. It sounds so reductive and simple, but you have to hit on the picks and you have to start to develop. And they did not draft Walker. He was part of the go Bear deal, but he

has developed under under Will Hardy. There's some things to like about Collier, but dude, I don't think Isaiah Collier and Caante George even make Oklahoma Cities roster, and I don't think Larry starts for them. So the bad news is there just is not a lot in the cupboard, which leads us to number five. This feels like as important as a draft for the Utah Jazz in a number of years.

that they can be. I mean you mentioned the trades, the Pacers getting Halliburton and okay see a CA. I mean those are just really savvy, smart moves by smart front office people. How smart are the Jazz front office guys? Danny, I don't know, his golf game's probably really good. Austin seems like he's more dialed in and maybe he's on top of these things. But I mean if they miss, if they miss, then they flounder. And think about it in the past, when the Jazz hit on draft picks,

then it really helped him. I mean, we don't need to go through the Stockton on loans of situations sixteen to thirteen. I mean, look at it when they got down of Van Menchell and others. It was through smart, smart moves by the Jazz. So recognizing the kind of talent that can be utilized in the system that they want to run.

not who he used to be. But Daron Fox will greenlight a trade to san Antonio because you have Women Yama. If the Jazz can find their answer to that and it's not Cooper Flag maybe it's Aja Debonsa, then you've got something. Then agents will take your phone call to say, Okay, yes, I want my client to come play for you because you have this great young piece and all players want to win and get paid. Right now, the Jazzes don't

have that. Like no one, no agent is calling it Austin agent saying hey, my client would really love to play off of Johnny Jeuzeg like. They just don't have the piece as of now to attract other players, which is why this has to be a long game. One more Jazz thing that I do have some other things for it, then I'll set you loose. Tom Thibodeau just lost his job after going to the Eastern Conference finals and winning fifty games back to back seasons and making

the playoffs four or five years. Michael Malone just lost his job after winning a championship two years ago. Taylor Jenkins, a lot of good coaches have lost their jobs. Will hardly received a five year contract extension. He's won thirty three percent of his games. The Jazz have locked in their front office with Austin Danny and Jay Z and

other pieces moving forward. So the problem is, it doesn't matter who you cut your coach is, It doesn't matter who your front office is if you have bad basketball players. But is there a silver lining that Ryan and Ashley Smith appear to be hiring people they believe in and giving them space to do their jobs and giving them the long game to do this From a front office and coach perspective.

be smarter than the other guys. That's just the way it is. That's what they gotta do. And if Ryan Smith is willing to continue to pour resources into this, then yeah, they can get it done. But like you said, that number five pick is huge for this team this year for the very reasoning you talked about.

No criminal charges, as I continue to remind everybody, and these are allegations and Jake deserves the process like everybody else, and so we'll kind of see how it plays out. It adds an extra layer of complication as far as where he plays and the honor code which he is forced to it here too. I don't want to say, but like he has to do it here too if he wants to be a student and an athlete at b YU. They all have to. That's just the deal. If you're playing down there, if you're going to school

down there. So your thoughts on where we find ourselves and just some thoughts on how Brian Santiago and BYU kind of have to traverse this newly complicated space.

If they can get it solved beforehand that it isn't a thing, then then they can move on but if there's that cloud, if there's any if there's that doubt, then yet you want people to have a due process, and you want to presume them innicine until proven guilty. But by is a different beast. I mean they cannot. They cannot abide that. And I there's a whole lot of colleges out there, university football programs who couldn't abide it,

at least among them BYU. So I really I don't want to can him anyone before it is made as certain as possible.

is my twenty two year anniversary of a surgery. I had to remove a cancerous brain tumor when I was just twenty five years old, and I was not supposed to survive that surgery. It was a twelve hour surgery, and before I went in, they had me say goodbye to all my family and my friends, and I didn't fully realize the severity of the situation I was dealing with. But I was lucky to have great care by Bill Caldwell and the Huntsman Cancer Institute, and I came out

with more or less a normal quality of life. Certainly, that surgery left some residual effects with balance and some physical stuff that I still battle to this day. But my son is in town, and he is about to turn twenty four years old next month, and my only desire and wish was to watch him grow. He was two years old at the time, and I've been able to do that. I didn't used to talk about this

because it's a private thing. But I feel like every time I do, it's important to point out that the reason I was able to survive that is we were able to get the tumor before it became embedded into my brain. And when that happened, you can't operate, And as doctors say, it's a six pack and a fishing pole and it's best of luck. So early detection is key. We are so blessed to live in a city with truly one of the best cancer care facilities in the world.

When we were trying to figure out what we were going to do once my situation manifested itself, we called our family care doc in midtown Manhattan and said, okay, what do we need to do? Where do we need to be? And he said, well, one of two facilities. One is Sloan Kettering back East, and the other one is right where you're at in Salt Lake. So if you're at Huntsman Cancer you're in great care. You don't need to go anywhere. And they saved my life. And

Bill Caldwell, my surgeon, saved my life. So just once a year, but like to do this on my anniversary, which kind of lands differently as you get older and you realize how blessed you've been to survive such things that you know, go in and get checked if you have any questions about anything that's going on. Doesn't have to be a brain tumor, could be anything, because early

detection can save your life. So I won't blaker to point, but I like to talk about this once a year as it's a big day for me and it's nice to have my son in town to celebrate that. All right, before we say goa nights, here's the question. Before we say good night. On Monday, we'll be talking about a series that's won one or two zero Indiana.

Google Play Store as well. And then finally for what we do in our space every afternoon for four hours. Check out our podcast page. It is called The Drive with Spence Jeckets. It's available wherever you get your shows. So go to your preferred podcast catcher, subscribe, rate, review, say nice things in the comments, and give us all the stars. You will be eternally blessed.