We talk from Utah football scrimmage over the weekends. It is week three of four weeks for fall camp for the Utes before they go to the Rose Bowl to take on UCLA College Basketball.
Right around the corner.
Had a chance to catch up with Alex Jensen last week up at the Red Zone Store on campus. If you're an old ute like me, we used to call it the bookstore. It is definitely not just the bookstore anymore. It is a very nice facility. It looks a lot different than it did once upon a time when I
was causing chaos on campus. I want to tell you about my friends at IFA Country Stores, like any good coach at the top and update the game plan for a healthy green lawn as the hot weather continues this month, make sure you're using ifa s Step three summer lawn food for healthy turf that stays green and every season IFA Step three lawn Food. It's the ultimate lawn owner
power move at IFA. Speaking of old Utes, I'm not calling him old, but when I was on campus, the athletic director of the University of Utah was doctor Chris Hill, and he joins me live in studio, Doctor Hill, how.
Are you, Sara I'm doing well.
There's probably two generations that were there, but.
I'm doing well. Can't complain great to see a great time of year.
So as we approach football and basketball, what are some of the boxes that you wanted checked before the football was kicked off?
Well, I think that you know, I'm by no means close to it. You know, I live near a colloccasion or whatever. But I kind of like some things I hear. Okay, you know, I mean, I'm probably going to try to go to practice in a week or two from now just to say hello. But I don't do that often, maybe once a year, but I kind of like what I hear. You know, it does take a genius to say the quarterback's got to do well and not get hurt.
I mean, everybody knows that.
One of the things I really like hearing is about this offensive line. Yeah, and you know, to me, a good quarterback can become very good with the good line, for sure. I mean, it can't change the quarterback's ability, but you've got a little bit more time to throw.
And this guy seems like a runner, you know, a defense I you know, I just kind of take it for granted and maybe I shouldn't, but you know, I'll do the running back, I don't, you know, know, so I think when you have that kind of offensive line when I'm here, one guy like projected is you know, top twelve.
Picks or some area.
You know, from my chair, it's similar to yours, and you know, but I kind of like hearing that stuff, you know, and I think that, you know, Harding's a really good coach on the line, so I think that though that'll happen, that'll be good for him.
Yeah, all five starters return, and you know, one of the players we don't even hear about much is Michael Malkafici who has thirty three starts. Now everybody talks about Spencer Fano and Caleb b. Loomo the two tackles, but Michae last thirty three starts, Jaron is a captain, and the Tongia kid is returning as well.
I mean, all five of those starters return.
I wonder if you ever had experience when it comes to like last year.
Was a disappointment.
It was a disappointment for all of us that expected something different. It was certainly disappointment for Kyle himself, and he spoke about that during Big Twelve Media day. It feels like you taught football is so in trench now that you don't need to quote win anybody back. Yeah, but what do you look for after a season like last year that just didn't go the way any of us were expecting.
Well, I just hope they start off well in beat UCLA the first one, because then the next two. I can say this now as an ad I don't have to act like they're easy games.
But we did schedule some of those for that reason.
But I like what I hear, the thing that you don't worry about it, but you just think, now our expectations are good, and that's really good.
Ya, that's cool.
Yeah, Like we don't go in with our tail between our legs and we don't say, oh, last year, that's where it's going to be. I don't think anybody feels that way.
You know.
I don't know how people's expectations are, but you know, I think they're in line to have a very good year again, and the fans I think are still interested in coming and so I'm optimistic about just the whole play they have in the pecking order of the Big Twelve.
You know, it was interesting to hear Kyle a big twelve media day, and he said this on Sean Show last off season, but he was more adamant about the fact that his decision to come back was colored in the context of how rough last year was. And I honestly wondered if that was even a factor, because he's one of a handful of coaches in college football whose legacy is cemented at the institution where he's at. There's nothing about last year that changes the thirty thousand foot
view of what Kyle has done with the program. But knowing him the way you do is the competitor. What are your thoughts on what that must have been like for him? And him really admitting front facing, like, yeah, it wasn't good enough, and that's one of the reasons I decided to come back.
Kyle's really tough on himself, and he's tough on everybody, you know, So I would imagine it was grinding pretty hard at him, you know, and especially because he got halfways through season and kind of going, oh, you know, I don't know how we're gonna get where I think we can get. So it made for and I'm just guessing, but it would make for a long season. For me, if I kind of knew that, I had nobody to
really come in and make it happen. And you don't want to think about the next year when you're sitting there. So it had to be really, really tough because he's done so well and kind of has control of things, and that's football coaches are. All coaches are control for yees, and things were out of his control, and that's not a pleasant thing for a coach like that.
What are the characteristics that make I mean, your hiring record, and I'm not buttering you up, sure, but your hiring record was very good, both on the football and basketball side and other sports as well, you know, the Red Rocks obviously. So when it comes to the process of looking for the right person to lead a program of football, basketball, gymnastics, whatever it is, what are those traits?
Well, for me, you know, it's.
Most of the really good coaches we had, very smart, you know, and you know people might think you just rolled the ball out and play and that's not the case. How to build a team, how to get kids to play together, you know, that's important. And for me personally, it was where somebody had the chance to put the pederal metal that was a mark in their career. They knew if they did well at Utah, they'd either could run it out or they can get a bigger job,
you know. So I like the people that were doing well, but they were just ready and this was their mark, you know. So I think they have to be smart, you know, they have to be around winning too that
you know, that's not obvious, but that is obvious. But I think the qualities are the personal qualities in this day and age, how to interact with people, you know, obviously team, but I think it's also I kept thinking in my mind and maybe that's because what Chase Peterson told me about when he hired me when I was just a kid, that it wasn't your make or break for you right now. I mean, if Kyle didn't do well, I mean, you know, and there's no slowing down for
a guy like that. You know, he's just after this is his deal and he made it happen.
Yeah, what did you Let's go back for a little bit. What did you see in an urban.
Well, I knew a lot of knew some things about him, and also there's there's other people you talk to and and you know, it's an interesting thing when when when a staff gets fired or moves on and they keep a guy that says something and a coloro state. They kept him well because he was the best recruiter. He was this, He was that, you know. When I met him, he was so enthusiastic, was organized as all hell, was a disciplinarian, and he had the guts of a burglar.
You know.
So uh, I think he I think he could do. And we needed juice. We needed juice, and he was not afraid of doing that. And he wasn't afraid of anything, you know. And you know he was enough to get Kyle.
Now.
But when I looked at him, and I'm not a genius, it's always a crapshoot. I tell people, you know, you hire ten people, if you're right seven times, that's a hell of a job. Of course, go to recruiting the same thing. Got an eighteen year old guy, you're right seven out of ten. That's crazy. But he had those quite so organized, so enthusiastic, very bright, you know, and this was really his mark. And you know I told
him when we hired him, I got it. You know, we'll try to hold on to you, but you hit the greatest, the greats, We'll give you a hug, and because you goodbye, no, we'll be better. So you know, all those things ended up. You know, I enjoyed it personally. I think we got the best of Urban.
What was it like?
And I have a little bit of experience that with this through the prism of my father's career. The best example was learning pat Riley away from NBC to coach the next And there were a lot of questions about whether or not Pat had the juice left that he had in LA.
And it became really apparent very quickly that he did.
And it's funny as you describe your Urban Meyer, pat Riley is coming to my mind. Sure organized guts of a burglar, which is a great line. You know, didn't take anything from anybody, knew exactly what he wanted and knew how to communicate that with his players. What was it like to watch your decision to hire Urban? Because I say this all the time, Coach Mac deserves credit for laying the foundation. Urban built the mansion and then
Kyle expanded it right. So, sitting back and watching that two year period in Utah football, that doctor Hill.
Changed the landscape of everything around here.
What was it like to sit back and watch your decision manifest itself the way it did?
Oh, it was you know, it was great. I mean I got off the hook a lot quicker, you know. I mean, when you let somebody go and you hire somebody, they're two different decisions or sure, but they're inextricably linked, you know. So if the new guy comes in and wins right away all of a sudden, you're smart guy. Yeah, if it takes two or three years, you're getting beat up for two or three years. So he got me
off the hook pretty quick, and you enjoyed it. Our our favorite game, which we though it was a turning point. We both agreed upon this independently. Was his first year and when they played cow third game of the year, packed house, We go down the field perfectly, Alex scores and a place goes crazy, and Urban's out in the crowd after that, and the town and you know, whipping people up, and we win the league and then it's like nirvana.
How much off.
Field credit des Urban get for the creation of because the musk wasn't a thing when I was in school. The student section was barely a thing when I was in school. And so every time I'm up there for a home game, I take none of it for granted. I turn around to look at the muscle, like this is wild to me. Still, Yeah, I haven't been in school, you know, twenty for twenty five, twenty six years now.
It's just everything is different. And it felt like there was the on field tangible stuff that we all saw, the winning Alex the number one pick in the NFL draft.
We all could see that.
But as far as the endeavors off the field to create the culture that still permeates today.
How much credit does Urban get for that? Well, he gets a lot. He tireless, you know, tireless, and you know, we all know this. You know, we won, and we won in a big way. We're exciting. But he was fired up all the time. You know, I knew that I'd win a discussion with him. I I just was fired up about whatever he was doing.
Chris, we got to do it.
Yeah, yeah, and we may not have done it, but still, you know, so I think he deserves a lot of credit. A lot of people, which rightfully so worked hard at getting the musco. But let's be honest, he got it on fire. And then it's continued, but he he you know, the winning he won Saint Urban. As time goes on, but you know when he was here, it happened. Yeah, and you can't deny it.
And Frank Layden, who passed recently at the age of ninety three, had this great say and he said, winning cures a myriad of sins.
Yes, it does. Frank always used to say that.
So winning is the secrets I speaking of which, while we're in this space, I would imagine you had several interactions with Frank over the years.
Oh yeah, I'm glad. You know.
We were on our trip and Frank and I two wise guy East Coast guys, Catholicers, you know, and he and I would get together early on about once a month at the one of the coffee shops right near to the university and just solve all the world's problems. He would kind of do that with me and whatever. And as time went on, it was kind of fun for me to have him. After as he retired and getting older, we'd still do the same thing. And you know,
I got everybody. Everybody was a mentor by Frank. You know, there's like if I lined up and said I was he was my mentor. They'd say, yeah, here's thirty seven hundred guys that he was a mentor. It gives me chills thinking about him. But you know, he got hit every one of his faculties. But people I wish understood that. Are you know, younger? What he did for the city, what he made it good. He taught me one of
the best things ever. He said, it takes a lot less energy to be good to people than to be me. And I never forgot Denny, and he told me a lot of things. But you know, I'm glad you asked me because I wasn't here when it all happened. I mean, I spent time visiting the hospital and everything. So it was fun when we used to meet with those things and Barbara and was really good with Kathy, and we went out at dinner once in a while.
That was great. I love the coffee session. And of course I'd be there and they go, here's Frank Layton.
I'm like, hey, what about me, I'm somebody too, Nah, that was Frank Layton. I was just his I was just his boy, carrying his coffee around. So I'm glad you bring it up. I mean, who doesn't like Frank find somebody. Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh. He was almost like a second father. So I did an entire show dedicated to him. We had Coach Mac hop on.
Yeah.
Coach Mac was actually in Hawaii, uh, doing a football camp. And Richard Smith had texted him saying, Spence is doing a show about Frank today, and Max said, when can I hop on? And when Max says can I hop on? You say yes? Obviously, so he hopped on. And obviously Frank's spirit will continue to permeate throughout out the marketplace.
And it is interesting to consider.
Both of you growing up back east in the Tri State area and landing here and making it home.
Yeah, I mean it was Frank's home, and you know, he had chances of going the same with me, and people would say, well, you're so loyal. Well it's a nice place to be. I got good people, I can win. I mean, I guess I'm loyal, but not really. It was a good job. I got paid. That was it, you know, and I just happened to like living here. Frank was kind of It was so interesting that way for me because I thought he validated here's a guy from the you know, New York and he loved it
here and we had the accents. I tease him that he still kept his accent. I said, for sure, I said, who are you talking about? Man a couple of coffee. I could do that too, you know. But anyway, but he was great.
I'm glad.
I'm so glad you mentioned it. Not you know, everybody loves Frank Sure. It's just like I was going to write a letter to the editor. I said, finally we have some non part to send things in the state. Yeah, we got one guy that you know whatever. So anyway, thank you for sure.
Yeah, the East Coast came out on him when he was fired up. If there's something that got under his skin, then he went full like Brooklyn. You know, I wish I always enjoyed speaking of letter to the editor. The Tribune today with an interesting piece about the NIL and economic endeavors at Brigham Young. To keep up with the sure other football programs, basketball programs across the landscape of college athletics. I've never fully understood why there's this clandestine
cloak that they use to cover their NIL endeavors. Like we have the reports. We know what you're paying these players. You're paying them an exorbitant amount of money. Kevin Young is one of the highest paid coach in the Big twelve. Kline got a new extension. I don't understand why the messaging isn't more authentic and honest about what they're doing, because there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.
Oh no, no, no, Have I talked to you since I played golf with Tomhomo?
You have not? Oh? Okay.
So I texted them after because a lot of people don't know. We used to sit together at meetings and we had so much more in common in people. Sure, you know, we had I had my rough spots, but so I said, I'm going to take you out to golf when you want to. And this was just when the thing happened with their quarterback, and then we talked about a lot of that stuff. And he says, now, I got somebody that wants to give X million dollars and the people at you know, uncomfortable, you know, in
the board of trustees the LDS church. And he's saying, so you only take this guy that's worth billions and contributing ten percent here, and I'm going to tell them no, you know. So it's kind of like you what do you do if people have that passion, you know, you do it, and and you know what the numbers are. I don't pay attention to it, but I know they're big. But you know, there's no shame, just do it, and that's okay.
Yeah, yeah, And you know, it does feel like there's a messaging issue when it comes to the following, which is, we all understand that the church is not writing these checks. These are alumni, right, these are boosters. But even with that caveat, even with that disclaimer, there appears to be a big portion of the culture and the fan base
that's really uncomfortable. And maybe it's just steeped in the fact that we're all used to this being amateur right in college athletics, and this is new for all of us. But I just don't understand why the refusal to say the thing out loud seems to exist down there where it's like, no, they want the b YU experience. Guess what, aj Debonsa did not want the BYU experience. He took five million dollars. Okay, I can agree with you now. I couldn't like ten years ago, but I can agree with you now.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not saying they didn't treat them. Well, he's not gonna have a great time, have friends. Kevin's
a good coach. Yeah, yeah, so they'll be fine. But you know, you wonder where a little bit is you know, if we're if we don't spend quite much money as the other school, we're a little more pure, or we're you know, I don't know, I'm guessing, but you know, people want to be the They don't want to be Texas in Alabama, but they want to be Texas in Alabama, right right, So it's kind of like you can't have a both ways. And you know, I just think they just got admit it going and do what they can do.
Do you think this new era of college athletics would have been something that would have juiced you up if you were in that seat, or something that would have brought your matus challengers or maybe a bit of both, a bit of both.
I mean, you know, when you're in the chair, you do whatever you have to do legally to win. I mean, you know, but some of it I got in a while ago, a long time ago, and you know, you got to feel a little bit more like you were close to the school and close to the players. And you know, I was telling somebody the other day they're worried about especially in basketball that you know, it's not the NBA, so you don't go to see the greatest
players ever, you know. But you fall in love with a freshman and he's coming back next year, and all there's mom, Sait's over there, and you know, what would our experience be without Andrey.
For four years?
Falling in love with him and you're buy season tickets and he's here and he's like, no, I'm not I understand intellectually why it's all happened. But if you ask me, I said that that wouldn't have been much fun, you know, because you really can't get attached to people. I got to know, you know, Alex's mom and dad got to know them. I mean he passed, but we knew them, and it was just fun. Yeah, you know, So there was a combination of fun and whatever came down the
pipe and you had but you had to adjust. So maybe maybe wouldn't have been as enthusiastic about it by any means, but you just would have had to, you know. But you know, and there's people that are like thirty years and thirty years old the business and they don't see anything else, so they're in the business for that, so God bless them too. But it was just not it was just losing players that you like, you know, and that is difficult, you know, but you can't. I mean, if it's money, it's money.
Well, and you know, I hate to beat this over the head. I'm looking something up real quick. I just because to your point about familiarity with players, it's one of the things that has always been in Now in the pros, it's kind of the same deal where these days there's more player movement in the NBA that there used to be, and certainly we got spoiled with John and Carl and Frank and Jerry. But one of the nice things about college athletics is getting to know these
young people to play at the school. And if they're transferring every year, it makes it hard to a build a program. Like if I'm a college coach these days, and if I don't have Texas Tech money or t Boon Pickens or whatever it is, I'm not even sure I'd want to stay in the endeavor because you can't even keep up. But do you think at least a little bit and I'm sure my listeners are so sick
of this. I said this years ago, like, Okay, if this is where we're going, we need to lean into it, and we need to allow these players to unionize and collectively bargain, which I know brings a myriad of challenges, but if we can get some sort of agreement, and in this area, I'm mostly talking about football. I think there's space for basketball, but football, of course drives the whole thing because if you get in, look, there are so many powerful lawyers that love to take this in
devor on. The best business if you're an attorney right now is being on the other side of the NCAA everything.
Right, there's a name there, a lawyer, and I wish I could bring back his name, but he's been making money for fifteen twelve years.
Sure on this whole deal.
Sure, Whenever I hear people say well, they wouldn't be able to figure it out, I say, yeah, they would.
These lawyers would step up to the plate and line up for this opportunity because if you can collectively bargain and come up with sipulations and guidelines, players signed contracts and you say, okay, you're here for two to three years, right, and that at least eliminates the whole nefarious I'm not playing or I don't like my coach, so I'm and you can you know, if you're an NFL guy and you get a feedback in the off season from the pros that you're a first round scout, Okay, exercise your
third year option, go to the league.
But as long as you're in college, you're here.
Well yeah, And for me, one of the things you're frustrating both about you know, university's moving very slow, you know, and and athletics is an emergency business. You know, your quarterback a need problem. I'm sorry, you're going to get the MRI this afternoon, and Joey Jake Bops is not going to be able to get in right away. And so it's an emergency business. It's something that happens fast. But I get tired of, like, we all know where we need to be.
All right.
They're employees now, Okay, now they meet you, and I can argue about that.
They need to be students.
And because I've seen too many and I know everybody in the radio now is rolling their eyes, but I've seen too many students that and players that were great players, even those who went in the NBA, I mean NFL. They didn't have the money when they left, or it's gone. Everybody thinks a million dollars is like the end of your world and you can live till seventy five with that. No no, no, no no. As soon as you don't work,
it's out the window. But you know, for me, I just wish they'd say they're student workers or football workers and collect the bargaining.
That's where we need to be. We all know that.
And they need contracts. That they have contracts, then they have security too. You know, if you get a contract, you come in and you know you're really not what the coach expected. They got to pay your trade here, you know. And so I think there's benefits all the way around. And you know, I don't know enough about the NFL money with the players, but I'm sure they do a lot of They do do a lot of commercials. I see them, but they seem legit. I don't know,
I means, so don't. I don't get why we can't at least understand where we are and then figure out how to get there, not to put roadblocks in the way before we Okay, do we all agree this, Yes, we agree this. Okay, that's what we agree, right, Okay, now we can start doing things, but don't have these Oh well they can't do this because it is and no, if we all agree this is where we need to be. Put that in a bank and try to get there.
Yeah.
Not, you know, I was going to say no, not mess around and do it, you know, just get it done. But university's moved very slowly, and you know, university presidence that I want to pick on it, but you know, you gotta you know, chemistry professor, you know, being a president and has you know, billions of budget, and they don't have experience in athletics, which is just athletics is weird part of the university.
Do you feel like and we'll catch a break because I do want to talk a little basketball coming up. On the other side, I've always sensed and you obviously have first hand experience.
I don't know if jealousy is the right term. There's just friction.
I'll use the term friction between academia and athletics and institutions.
Yeah, there's run into that. Yeah, there's three types.
There's the ones that really really like you, and sometimes that's not healthy in a way. Then there's the ones in between that accept it, understand it, and don't whine about it. And then there's a group that just can't stand you.
Yeah.
I always told everybody, Wellkyle Berkeley's is seventy five percent can't stand you. But we had a kind of that's how it is. And you know, there are people that just don't like it, and you know, they talk about the academic stuff and all this, and I said, wait a minute, don't don't call the office and say this player cheated.
Just flunk them like anybody else. Oh, I don't know if I can do that, you know.
And so it gets kind of to the point where you understand where one group is, you're not going to change it, and you just have to kind of gut it up and get through that. The ones in the middle are the ones that get hold you accountable. Yeah, you know, they're the ones that are care enough to hold you accountable. Understand when we got into pec twell what a meant to their pool of applicants they could
have for professor jobs and all that. And the ones on the other end were the ones that scare me a little bit too, because I'm thinking, Oh, they're going to give these players favors and I'm not going to do that. Yeah, oh my god. So you know, so that's my experience. Yeah, yeah, it's real. And to your point, there are several layers.
Certainly with the public public institution like the University of Utah BYU operates a little bit differently because they're privately owned. I just think the issues that everybody brings up, I think it's a smoke screen and a distraction from where we need land to make sure that these sports continue to be the types of products that we want.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think we just got to accept where it's going, you know, and get there.
Yeah. I mean that's all you can do now. I'm with you.
Yeah, And you know, and we do have to take a look at how we're spending our money and all that stuff, and we could be smarter, sure, I mean I don't want to. You know, Greg marsd and I used to talk about it. Now you can have twenty people on gymnastics team, Why you're gonna have you know, eight spoiled kids are gonna be mom and dad are gonna be on at the coach like Chrese. Yeah, you know, so they're in football. Do they really need one hundred and five people? Yeah, when fifty three play a game,
that's the effort. Yeah, that's fair point. Yeah.
Always a pleasure to have.
One of my favorite guests live in studio, that is doctor Chris Hill. It is a mediocre pleasure to have Bill Riley on the show. Coming up at three point thirty today, Katy Ryles, we love you, Bud Elliott Fall rolls by later on week three of the NFL preseason the Books.
We are less than two weeks away for.
Kickoff for the University of Utah Week zero this week including a game in Dublin, So that should be fun, Doctor Hill. Alex Jensen's first year as head coach of the Utah men's basketball program. I'm a big al guy, you know, have been for years. Got to know him really well when he was with the Jazz when and I was over there, he was Quinn's lead assistant.
I always thought he would be an NBA head coach.
I don't know how much of his decision to take the Utah job was colored in the calculation he did and maybe came to the conclusion like if I was going to be an NBA coach, I would have had an offer by now. First time around when Larry was fired Larry Skoviak, who was always good to me and I really liked as well, I thought they'd land on him, and they landed on Craig, who's a really nice guy and a really good coach. Hopefully he lands on his
feet somewhere else. But you know, al well, I continued just to temper expectations because this conference is such a bear, and I think the Utah Athletic Department has some work to do to keep up with the Joneses, to give out the supporting needs.
But what are you expecting year one for out? I expect that.
He'll have some good players because he was very strategic about how he was recruiting guys. And when I was in the I told you off air when I had lunch with him and he just I was on my bike and he said, let's go eat and some of the guys were coming in, and I liked him looking at him, say these are and I really appreciate him keeping the dogs kid. I thought he was the player, you know. So you know, I don't know what kind
of players have. It's so hard with guys like we had at Utah, like Rick and Kyle and Urban and you know, all those coaches could coach him, and Alex can coach him.
Yeah.
Now he's got to keep him. As we talked fifteen twenty minutes ago. But I'm a little blind with Alex, you know. I mean I told him when I saw him, I said, the only thing you're missing is most coaches are rugging on the administration or on every a lot of people, and you're not nasty enough. So you've got to find somebody that's going to push him because you've got to push him. That's just natural tension between coaches and administration.
Yeah.
So you know, but he just laughed and I said, no, but he's a long story short. I just can't really see straight because I like him so much and I think he's got all the qualities. And we called him Saint Alex.
Yeah.
Yeah, And that's the thing because the coaching pedigree is there. He was a g Lead Coach of the Year. I watched him. I'm telling you, and Dennis Lindsay, the Utah Jazz general manager, the piece together the team that Alex and Quinn coached when Rudy Gobert was at the NBA Draft combine. Dennis on My show said he was treated like a circus clown. No one knew what to do with them. And Rudy's rookie year it looked awful. I mean, I didn't think he had a chance spend a lot
of time in the G League. I had a front row seat watching Alex coach him up. And look, the bulk of the credit always goes to the player, But the work Alex did with Rudy and then later on Walker Kessler's rookie year where he became second Rookie of the Year, voting Dallas Mavericks, Luka, Doncic, Donovan Mitchell like he. So you know, Kevin Young down a Byu was a coach with the Sons, and so his whole thing is like I coached Devin Booker and Chris Paul and Kevin Durant.
Alex has that same pedigree.
But to your point, most of the successful coaches, at least I know of, have a little bit of for lack of a better term, jerk in them, you know what I mean, they just can't do I don't know. I don't know if I would describe Kyle as a jerk, but he has bites.
He has said they got an edge.
You know, and Mentor said that every coach breaks your heart sometimes understand that, but you know.
And you had the ultimate jerk and Rick, who we all love. But at the same time, some complications seemed to rise from time to time.
Yeah, there it was, but it was when I had it all up for sure. Yeah, you add it all up and you get someplace. But uh, yeah, you know, you know more about his teaching with the pros and you were there, you watch. I don't perform us to do that. I talked to have talked to some friends of people who knew that and everything. So I can't guarantee did that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one that helped those guys with the fundamentals to get this, to get that, because he's very measured,
you know, he's let's be honest, he was Rick's favorite guy. Yeah, and Alex is not dumb, you know, except when he came back from his mission and Rick said, oh my gosh, he's pudgy. Right now, I think that's a made up story, But I have to ask Alex said.
Well, it's it's really interesting.
The Rick thing is always fascinating me because for about six years I did Jazz per Off and Postgame with Britain Britten Johnson.
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
And whether you talk to Britt or any of the players that were on those teams with Rick, they all had the same thing with Alex, which was he was the only one that Rick seemed to like genuinely like he was. We were all he and Andre Andre. Yeah, we're like the two guys. There were two of Rix favorites. And look, I love my guy Britt, but at times he probably didn't do himself any favors because he's a little bit of a kid at.
Heart, which I love about him.
Yeah, but what does that say to you that Rick seemed to really like and respect Alex as just a person, not one of his players.
I mean he went on coach with them at Saint Louis.
Yeah, yeah, you know it's I think BRIT's right, you know what a good guy he is, by the way, and his brother Jeff the best and his parents, I know his dad was ill, but they I really liked them a lot. They were they were fabulous and so whatever he sailed him when you see.
But yeah, Rick was rugged. He was.
He was an equal opportunity rugged guy except for those two. You know, so it was what he was. But you know, he he he had him define at what their job was, and sometimes people didn't like it. You know, Alex could do the rebound, could shoot, could do that.
You know. I remember I watched Rick practice one time.
I and I won't remember that guy's name, but he was one of our scorers early on in the game, early on when I was there and I sat a practice, uh and all of a sudden, our best.
Shooter gives up a shot.
Rick clos Off talking about role playing, Well, you are the most selfish, freaking guy on the team, sho You're terrible. That's what you think. You're here to play defensive rebound. And then he talks about this guy set the screen, this guy did the where and all the kids there are getting their role. And I'm convinced to this day he was one of the best and nobody could do
it his way. But he defined their roles. Some kinds that didn't like it, Yeah, but they knew if they were going to play because that was his other great answer. When the tournament they said, hey, how come your team so disciplined the bench? That was his answer. That's when he's ever given.
Yeah.
Plus it was shorts. I didn't to worry about him going on and on and saying something woul drive me crazy anyway, That's that's what we got there.
Yeah.
Yeah, do you I can't believe I'm gonna ask you this question because I'm quite sure the answer is emphatically no. Do you see any of Rick and ol like the way they approach the game, the way they look at the game. Obviously personalities, they could not be different, more different, they cannot be more polar opposites. Is there anything about Rick that reminds you of Out? Or anything about Out that they will remind you of Rick?
Is what I should say. It'll be hard.
I think the approach to the game in terms of a different, different personality, but you know they have the same values in putting the team together. I mean, you know, I mean the guys that went to pro said the best coach say that was Rick. I mean, even though they had some scars on them, But you know, I
can't imagine now, No, they're not like at all. No, I'm trying to answer a question and try to put something together about similarity, but you know, the way they'll teach the game will be similar.
So I'm pulling up the Big Twelve here, and last year the SEC was the best basketball conference they You know, all we have here is prognostications, and this year it will either be the SEC or the Big Twelve. So I reference the article that the Trip did on b YU earlier. The average Big Twelve ross is projected to have cost about twelve to thirteen million dollars this year. Dyu's projection is over fifteen. That puts them on par with Kansas when it comes to the Big twelve landscape.
So until Alex gets that kind of financial commitment, I think it's going to be tough to expect much right out of the gates. What does in your opinion year, what does success look like for al year one of the Big Twelve?
I think finishing in the top half of the league really nice, really nice. I mean, I you know what we think of is that, Yeah, there's going to be some schools that are ten twelve million dollars, but that's not the whole league. Yeah, and you can be fourth or fifth in that league and be seated very high in the nca tournament would have changed away. That's a grand slang. Yeah, so maybe in a couple of years from now that might happen. I mean, I don't know.
I mean I always think that, you know, they have some schools in the league that don't have that same support, you know, as the top guys there, so you know he's gonna have to battle them. But you know, I'm hoping that if we can get someone in the middle of the league this year, that'd be fantastic.
Yeah, a top five finished year one proud. Oh, that'd be ridiculous. That'd be crazy.
And it's hard for me to analyze because I you know, I'm not There are several people that do my job that will pull up the Utah roster, Like, yeah, I watched this guy at Southern.
No, you didn't stop lying. I don't know enough about these plays.
You're right about Kanu, especially after Craig was let go the final like ten games of the season when coach Eilert started Keanu. I think he had eight double doubles the final twelve games. I mean easy, not easy, but not just ten and ten right, right? Yeah, an athletic. You know, because this is a different conference, Like you need athletes Kansas has is Darren Peterson kid that might be the number one pick in the draft next year.
If it's not a j I tell you what it just made me. I'm sorry, interrupted you.
No, no, yeah, I was just thinking something that when Al talked about he wanted to model some of his program against Houston and that Houston is long and defensive, and that reminds me ri and nasty and they have to be that way. So anyway, back to your question about b why you play?
I think so, you know, you know, b Yu as AJ and then Kansas as Darreon Peterson and then there's the boozer kid who's going to be a duke. Those are the three players and everybodys talking about the number one overall pick. But do you think Al's getting the support that he needs in order to build the roster to to stay competitive.
You know, he's not getting a supupport you mean financially, Chris. There's billionaires at BYU. Yeah, and so I think He's people are digging as hard as they can, you know, and I think they're going to be in pretty good shape. But you know, I'm not close of it, and I don't mean to defer anybody else, but for me, I don't know what their budget is. I don't know how much money they have, and that would be totally arrogant for me to make something up and act like I do.
Yeah, no, I understand.
It just leads to a larger question that we continue to debate on the show because the information I've received is that BYU has at least and this is about a year old.
This information is a little bit dated.
But last year I was told BYU has nine seven figure donors in Utah is two.
Yeah, yeah, So your.
Connections in the community, does it feel like there's so the way I phrased at Doctor Hills last year, BYU football or excuse me, Utah football had the pressure of being the team that everybody thought was going to win the conference.
Sure, I feel like the pressure this year.
Is steeped in a community that is wondering whether or not Utah athletics has evolved and can keep up with the new reality of the sport, and a lot of that is deep pockets. Does it feel like in our community up here in Salt Lake, people have confidence that there's enough money flowing through the University Athletic Department, like there is about forty miles down south.
Well, I'll tell you what one of the challenges I always tell nobody really followed it much is that, first of all, we have medical center, so you can have one hundred million dollars to cancer research or one hundred million dollars to basketball.
So we have that.
We also there are three schools in the state that are the top divisions in the West. I don't know who else has that, but California. There's Colorado, Colorado State, Arizona, Arizona State. Here we got three. So the money gets thin. And not to make light, a lot of people give a percentage of their money away. And and we used to tease that when we play our schedule, we got we got our fans given both to Air Force into
by U. Those are so part of it is. I think there's uh some challenges inherent in Utah with where do you put your money?
You know?
And and I don't I don't see us US, I mean the Univeru. I'm done us anymore. But there's just a lot of money from one to understand a silicon slopes and when you add up, when you divide I was a Athican. When you divide the billion, if if every mile were every inch or a mile, if you're a millionaire, you can go to sand you can go to holiday. If your billionaire, you can go to Seattle. Okay, how's that put in perspectively? Yeah, it does a little bit, Yeah,
a little bit. So you know, I mean, it's it's hard when somebody can just do that and they can still give.
To their other causes. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. You you were the steward over a program.
You resided over a program that for a number of different years had elite football and elite basketball.
Yeah.
Yeah, And you know, there's this conversation that's taking place because I cannot believe and truly this is steeped in my own experience, and we're all, you know, we're we're all in our own echo chamber. You know, we all kind of approached this from our own prism and the fact that as a student at Utah in the nineties that I say into this microphone as of this year, it has been ten years since we've made the NCAA tournament as a basketball program.
That blows my mind.
And so the conversation has kind of been like, well, you know what it like to strike that balance to make sure your football program and your basketball program are receiving the support they need in order to both be elite, because schools across the country do it. I think BYU's on the precipice, Bama is there. I mean, Bama's basketball program is very good and I could keep going. Florida won a national championship. They're a top fifteen football team
this year. What are the challenges of striking that balance to make sure that you have football and basketball top shelf.
Yeah, I don't think they're impossible by any means. I mean we were fortunate enough to have that experience on several occasions, you know. And you know with with football, it's it's well, both sports are really money, money money. But you know, if you in basketball that head coach coaches a lot and doesn't have as many people around, and in football, once you establish it, it feels like it's harder to fall apart. Or basketball it's difficult to
build that kind of tradition. Yeah, and you know, to have a long standing coaches that helps. You know, you look at that and you see who's who's been at school X for a long time, and you know, that really helps. But it's you know, I don't understand why it's so hard, you know, because your your community is
the same one. And maybe now people are more interested because of the visibility of football and how big it is and TV and all that that, maybe people are inclined to more spend more money on football, you know, which they do, and that's the way it's always going to be.
But it's hard.
But if you get good coaches, I'm still not even enough to think you can get in the tournament, win some games, do some damage. Now you might not be winning championships, but I mean, once you get in the NSA tournament, you can win games. You know, as you all know. And when you talk to the number one draft choices this year, the guy Cooper Fly Cooper flag right, Cooper Fly, Yeah, I mean he brought them to the Promised Land. But how many guys have brought their team
to Rutgers ma alma mater. Those two guys didn't bring them to the promises and they had two of them, not even so, how many guys have there have brought them to the Promised Land? Yeah, you know, and you look at the number one draft choices and you can go through them. When you get a chance, you'll say, huh, oh they lost in sixteen. Oh, the guy at LSU didn't make the NCAA tournament, so that may be naive.
And when you only have him for five or six months, you've got to hope they're what you thought they were and the guys around them got to do that and they're gonna be players, not like this AJ because I understand he's really a solid guy.
He's yeah kid and a really good player. Yeah.
I mean I've heard nothing but good things. So he'll fit in. Like I said earlier too, he'll fit in great in school. But there are guys that want to be that way. And I don't know what the Rector's guy were like, but maybe they were like just watching out for their own.
Yeah, I don't know. I'm not so sure to play for the Jazz. Yeah, I'm not so sure.
You know, I want to set the screen for this other guy gain, but you know I'm gonna I can take it one on one. So you know, you're going to have so many these promised land guys that don't bring them there.
It might not be mutually exclusive, but did the evolution of the football program. You know, coach mac Urban obviously see Kyle with the way the football program kind of shot to the moon. Is there anything there as far as the basketball.
Program going the other way? Are they related at all? That?
It was funny though, And I'm glad Rick Rick couldn't. You know, I'm not glad he's gone. But you know, when we were hot in the in the in football, in basketball those years, we siphoned the money off the football. You know, you look at what we didn't have a lot of facilities in basketball are different and everything. But that was my deep dark siccret with him. But you
know it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard, Yeah, And I think if we can, you know, do well and people but everywhere I go, people want so bad for that guy to win.
For sure. I mean I sound like champion. Maybe not.
I don't want to seem like I'm in love with Alex, but I just really got optimistic that maybe he can build a little bit and get there, you know. But again, everybody thinks he's going to stay forever. Well, he's late forties, right, you know that, And you know, I mean, they better take care of him. He does well, and I better start supporting him. And I think there are people that are I've talked to some people that say, hey, we
got to make sure you know, we come back. And we talked off air that you know with John Hunchman Senior left that was that was a big deal. Yeah, you know, left when he passed away because he had a lot of juice and he encouraged others to help. So I'm hoping they can have some real champions.
I agree with you, And what's not to like about al Al's It's like we were talking about Frank Lyton earlier. If you don't like Alex Jensen, it's a you problem.
Yeah.
If you walk around the state and walk around for days and days and days, if you find somebody that doesn't like Frank or Alex, let me know. Yeah, I'll call you in a month and you let me know. How's the golf game. I've earned my handicap. It's not good, all right, I went a lot in my handicap. No, no, no, no, it's uh. I've got the shortest backswing in America.
That's good. Though I don't practice. That's not good. Doctor.
I don't want to take a lesson. I'm sick of being coached and all that. So I just go out and play so short backswing and one day it's the drive works, and the next day you'd stubb it.
Yeah, we know. I practice a lot. I like lessons, and that's the same with me.
See when you practice, I read something the other day, you don't do it right, you get on it.
What do you do?
You get there and hit your wedge twenty in a row. Well on a golf course. How many times you do that?
That's fair? So the person said, put.
Your driver there, put your wedge, put your eight iron and your sandwich. Hit a drive, then go hit your eat iron. Then go hit you with the.
Way I'm firing.
See if you got four in a row. I like it on different clubs. Are you interested in giving me lessons? You want to coach me at all? I don't want to be a rental lesson. I don't want to coach. I just want to play and hang out. Well, look, it's always great to say thank you for having thanks so much for the time.
Okay, we'll get doing it. Yeah, we got it, buddy.
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