Big Dave loves himself. Little Neil Young good. It is good, but it's one of those things where it was overplayed, like you're your old man was into the metal stuff, right, the nineties metal.
Stuff, yeah, little hair metal.
Yeah. And if he gets overplayed, then you become an adult. You don't love it as much as you should because you heard it a ton It's fair, Yeah, Nil's little timeless, in my opinion, not fair enough. Chris Camaraannie Live in studio Hot Neil Neil Young take Let's get it there. Yeah.
I think for me, the Eagles are kind of the quintessential overplayed band, and I always think of the Lebowski scene He's just get out of my cab. I love that he had to take a cab from Malibu all the way back to the city. What's an expensive cab?
Right? It is? Then he throws him out of the cab because he doesn't like the Eagles. But Big Dave also overplayed the Eagles, so I can't absolutely, I can't do it. It was there a band that was overplayed in your house when you were younger.
No, my mom has really really good taste in music. She like went with the times, so we never overplayed anything. It would it would, you know, evolve sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties. I mean like we had we had a pretty good repertoire going. I mean we would. We would go from like you know, Jefferson Airplane to the Eagles, a lot of you know, almost famousy stuff. And then as the
eighties and nineties came around. I was born in the eighties, like you know, she started getting hit with it, Whitney Houston Voice to Man Nice. We had a pretty good catalog of music in our house.
See I I kind of nobody cares about this, but I care you think so?
I think so.
Frank Layton has advice to me was who cares? Nobody's listening when I first took the job. So that's kind of how I do the job. Nobody's listening. I was lucky that deb My Mom Motown. Oh yeah, loved it. Yeah, so learned about all that as the Supremes. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Danna Ross, no doubt anyway, Chris, Happy, Happy Wednesday.
Why are we getting you on a Wednesday this week? Because my kid's a taken?
Oh I see, you know usually you're on our Friday sable.
Yeah, free days. The kid is not in daycare on Fridays.
Okay, fair enough. How's your January going? Things going?
Well? Yeah? Was I in here last week?
You were?
And it was after Yeah, yeah it was. I got back from Rosebel. Yeah, i've seen you sin since the new year. But yeah, January's good man, Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything's cool.
Just the first Monday in January, as I talked to you about, it just kind of hits.
Where you're it's like a Seinfeld episode.
Yes, and I tore my rotator crough. I don't know if I told you this, No you did. Yeah, it's a partial tear. Shout out day Petron my guy imaging imaging, imaging, Yes, imaging X ray as well as the ultrasound. And I saw it's a partial tear, not a full tear. No surgery.
But do you want to tell the people how you tore it?
Shoulder presses, how many moving weight around? M oh Man, I don't know what RepA was. All I know is I dropped the dumbbell because it hurt so bad.
So what would described the pain? As soon as like? Was it amedt.
Stinging shooting pain? It felt like somebody shot me in the arm.
Not like, so, I mean, first people, there's a lot of people who haven't been shot.
So is it like I also have never been shot. Let's be like a like.
A when you get a shot at the doctor, A little bit big needle.
To Yeah, a little bit, just like. It wasn't like a dull pain. I didn't feel pop. It was just like a stinging pain right away.
And as soon as you put the weight down, did it alleviate or no? Continue?
No?
Continued?
So I went home, called my guy. Yeah, and the bummers that it happened on a Friday, and so I had to wait until the ortho was open on a Monday.
Yeah.
So I'm just ibuprofen iccene.
You know, did you get the sling?
No sling? Because again, partial terror. I can do this, right, I just I can't do the side. Okay, how's your health? By the way, it's great, man. What's the worst what's the worst injury you've ever had?
Oh? I I've had like lots of minor ones. It tore my MCL when I was like nineteen, didn't get surgery. To me, the most debilitating injury I've had was like a I don't know what the official diagnosis was was like a lower back issue right before COVID. My friends and I were spike ball a lot, okay when we were younger. This was like, you know, in my early thirties, and it requires a lot of diving and just one one jump, one dive. I just felt it and I was just in a very bad state, like I was
on muscle relaxers. And it was not a good thing.
And that was a back issue. Back issue. Yeah, back issues are the worst. Anyway. There you go. Enough enough conversation about aging and hurting yourself all the time. Let's see where do you want to start today?
C K or not Wednesday? I'll tell you probably not. I'll tell you what's not hot? Back injuries?
What is okay, not hot? Well, okay, back injuries not hot?
Not hot?
What's hot on a Wednesday? Right now?
Going to the gym?
Apparently, No, I'm not hot, not hot at all? What do how many listeners have any frame of reference for what we're talking about?
As far as we could talk about triggers?
If you want an old feature back in the day, now we can move on from it, all right, the uh uh, you know what, Here's what I'll ask you, and you know, I'm quite sure if we could find an answer, we do people big time favor. I am still stunned, even though it's been a number of years that the Utah basketball program cannot consistently find their way
back to even semi relevance. And I feel bad being overly critical because I like Craig and he's one wherever he's been prior to this stop, and I watch every game I watched last night. I don't view this as a coaching issue. Craig enters the gym every night with a talent discrepancy and a talent gap that in the Big twelve is undeniable. But it's hard to recruit to a basketball program that does not have fans to show
up to watch the games. And I'm not blaming the fans, because you have to have a product that's engaging, that's entertaining. And so there's this chicken or the egg thing that I've been talking about this week. I do think if that building was full, it would help Craig recruit because players want to play in front of in front of fans. But I also understand a fan base.
It's like, dude, they they get housed. Every Big Twelve game they play.
So I'm just wondering what your thoughts are. You you were around the back in the day when Utah basketball, I mean, you remember when Utah basketball was out of say Dan, and I'm never going to be the guy that says, how do we get it back to the jerish years? Yeah, but but your thoughts on this program that year in and year out just can't find its way back.
Well, I'll go back in time. My junior year of college was Jim Boylan's best year.
Jim Boylan, Luca Dertcia, little five seed.
I believe Tyler Kepke, Carlon Brown, Kim Tilley was that Luke Neville. Yeah, yeah, they made They were five seed that year and then they got They drew Arizona, that's twelve, and they lost. But I know Larry had a couple of good teams. He had some pros, Kyle and Delon and yakob Ah. I don't even think you need pros in college basketball. You just need to have an engaging
style of play. Look at what Utah State's been able to do in the last decade with five different head coaches, and I know there is a cultural difference where Utah State is more of a basketball school historically than Utah is. But we saw for forty fifty years Utah was primarily a basketball school. Now it's become a football school. So how does Utah, I don't know, find somewhat of an
even footing on that point. I don't know, man, Like I think it's just getting good players playing engaging basketball, and like there was a talent discrepancy for many years, even in the Pac twelve. I don't even think this is a Big twelve thing. This is an issue that stems beyond Craig, beyond Larry. I mean, this is something that the Utah basketball program hasn't been able to figure out for I mean, what twenty years now. I mean
Jim had one good year, Larry had a few. So you're talking about like four or five out of twenty ish. I mean Ray Jacolade had a good year, but like I'm just saying, like that is a very low clip.
Well, and jack A Leetti's good year was with Bogut, who Rick recruited. Right, and all due respect to Ray, you always seem like a nice guy or whatever, but you bring up an interesting point, and I don't think this is mutually exclusive like, for instance, Alabama has an awesome basketball team and an awesome football team. But it does seem that the Utah basketball program kind of started its slide into somewhat irrelevance as the football program started
to evolve. Yeah, do you think there's anything where fans are kind of like.
Well, they're probably spread thin. They probably don't want to necessarily shell out That's what makes sense shell out money Bush season tickets for both. And I know that, you know, college basketball season tickets are much cheaper than college football tickets, even though there's more home games. But I think it's I just don't know if we're in a market where people are going to be locked in from August all the way to April, I just think that's asking a lot.
And I mean, frankly, if you're somebody who wants to invest in a good product, as we've seen the last couple of years, it makes way more sense at the moment to invest in going to watch Utah women's basketball because they're very good and they play a very entertaining style of basketball. And I don't know, it's just more fun and it's more fun when you win, and it's more fun when you play like I say, when you play a style that's engaging to fans, So.
It could be something as simple as consistent performance and showing that you have the ability, like because to your point, there's always been this one year spike where it's okay, we're back in the tournament and then boom. So maybe I don't know three four five years of consistent, winning, entertaining basketball, and I don't know how you do it these days. But players that stay here used to be kind of the thing. And again I'm doing the Majeri's thing.
But all those guys van Horn and Britain and Andre and Dole, like they were three four year guys, so the community got to know them. But maybe that's not a reality of how to He brought up something else, like really the emotional, economic, whatever you want to reframe the investment as for that long the of the calendar. When it comes to college basketball, that's Yukon, it's Kentucky, it's Duke, it's Caroll. Like seven or eight programs get that type of year long support if for honest.
Agreed, But and you're also talking about schools that get that from a single sport, not necessarily the two big revenue earning sports. Yeah, I'm trying to think, like off the top of my head, like you mentioned Alabama, but Alabama really hasn't really come on from a men's basketball standpoint until like the last four or five years. Traditionally they were they were pretty bad, even you know, before
Nick Saban got there and changed their fortunes. I guess Auburn, like Auburn was good, but now it's kind of like the football team's not good, right, basketball team's very good. It's hard to find one athletic program where they're always really really good at football and always really really good at men's basketball.
Yeah, consistently. Yeah, there's always texas As spurts here there on the basketball side. But no, it's a fair point. Just curious to get your thoughts, because, again, I feel bad saying this. I'm watching them play these Big twelve games and it doesn't even feel like it's a fair fight.
Yeah, going back to your point about guys who stay like it is hard to recruit in this current landscape of college athletics, I get it, But you're also if I'm and it might be unfair to compare to other programs in the state. You look at a place like Utah State. Yes, they lost their head coach, they lost great Osibor, who's a great player, No pun intended, But like, you have lots of guys that are still in that program.
One of these guys who used to be a Utah you Ian Martinez, who's been there for several years now bouts around.
Yeah.
But like, if you get players who find their niche and have a role and can help you build a winning culture, odds are you'll be able to get them to stay, especially in college basketball. I mean, I I don't think the poaching is at a level and I could be totally wrong. I just I think, considering the size of rosters, I don't think the poaching is at the same level of football in that like you're fifteen players compared to one hundred and five, you know what
I mean. And there's and it's proven in college basketball that you can be good no matter your size, and you can make a run if you're good. Again, I'll use Utah State as an example, Like, how many players on that team are Utah players? A few, quite a few?
Yeah, yeah, most, I believe how many.
Utah players are on Utah's roster currently? I honestly don't know. I mean, I know the Hunter Erickson kid is a bench player, he's a Utah kid, but the Mats and brothers are not from Utah. They have the Finnish player, the big guys, the tall guys on the team. I don't know their names. I don't think they're from Utah. So it's like, I don't think you necessarily have to
recruit local players to be good. But I don't know if you're talking about at least within the last decade, the best college basketball programs to come out of the state between our three big schools generally have been able to lock up local talent, especially Utah State and BYU.
Jake Waaleen is from Provo, but you already knew that, Yeah, wall Lean, Hunter Erickson is from Provo as you referenced, and our guy Brady Smith is from Logan.
Wait Brady Smith didn't he used to produce this program.
No, that was Brady Clark. Okay, shout out to our guy Brady Hope. He's hanging in. He's a Utah Stag fan, so he's probably having a good year.
But like, I don't understand you. You're a basketball guy, so you can tell me how this works? Like, how is Uta State able to do this? And I know they're they're playing at a conference level that is way different compared to the Big twelve, which you can argue is the best in the country. But like Utuasa was doing this when Utah was in the PAC twelve too, and they were doing it when the Pac twelve wasn't that good. So how is it that it works at Uta State, which Craig had a direct hand in before.
Yes he did, Yes he did, So how are they able to spin it forward?
All due respect to our friends about forty miles down south, watching a college basketball game of the Spectrum, it's the best is second level. I mean, it's one of the best college basketball environments in the whole country. And I've been to a grip of college basketball menus, and I do think there's something there. If you're a high school kid, and let's say you're a top shelf high school recruit and you go down to Provo and watch a game
of the Marriott Centaer, You're like, this is dope. It's rolled out the game.
Ops.
They do a good job. The kids are having a grand time, wide out smashing cougartails and milk and just enjoy life. And then you roll up to Salt Lake and you're like, oh, do people know that there's a game tonight? And then you go up to Logan You're like, this is awesome.
Agreed, Yeah, it's true. I mean, like the spectrum will be full for like San Jose State and it's cool and it's cool. Yeah, I agree, Yeah, the ambiance matters.
All right, We'll save our football for the next segment. And also our guy Joe Coles got the exclusive with Mark Carlin today. We'll save that from the next segment. Let's do it. We got a couple of minutes with this this segment. Let's do a little basketball, a little more basketball. And here's what I want to add, because you and our guy TJ. Tony Jones, a few years back, you did a really good piece on Donovan, so you know, chattered with him. My guest has got to know him
a little bit here or there. And tonight we've got the Calves and we've got Okac and it's the first time in NBA history that at this point of the season there are two teams on pace for more than seventy wins. The Calves are thirty one and four, Okase is thirty and five, and Donovan has started to figure it out. He started to figure out, like if you look at his numbers, they don't jump out. They're the same as they were here, but he's not taken as
many shots. He's admitted this year that he's tried to play defense, and all of us in Salak are like, thanks, dude,
all right, glad you're trying to play defense now. I still think Boston's the best team in the East, and I don't know that Cleveland can beat them four times in seven tries, but it's undeniable that what they're doing is real coaching, change, different system, and Donovan is really starting to evolve where I think he is going to have a no questions answer comes spring, right, but I think he's gonna answer them. I don't think they can win it, but in pro basketball, there's a saying, if
you got a shy, you've done a good job. I was never on board to believe that, and Quinn was here last night, and I never thought that group was going to win an NBA championship. But there were a couple of postseasons where I thought they've got a shot.
So as we sit here watching Donovan potentially evolve into the space as a first team All NBA guy for one of the best teams in pro basketball, and maybe they go and win something special this year, I still maintain, I'll always maintain that there was meat left on that bone when this front office decided to trade everybody, And for the most part, all of the players have gone on to play well elsewhere. Royce O'Neill has had a
much better stretch elsewhere. Paid our guy, Bucket O'Neil, one bucket O'Neill played well in Brooklyn, He's got a good role in Phoenix. Minivan solid role player in Philly. Yeah, Engles is just old now, but he went elsewhere and played well, and he just he can't walk anymore, but he's still on a rush. Well he does one time the other night. And Rudy's still Rudy. Like the front office made a calculated move to trade star players in their prime to start this rebuild that in three years
has not bread anything very exciting. Just I wanted your thoughts on that.
I don't think it's I don't think it's hyperbolic to just say that the team didn't gel, they didn't like each other, like they played well together. And it's I'm not saying every team that you know me, I'm with you. I'm a results over a vibes.
Guy, John Paul hope you're listening.
But like there they came to the end of road spins, Like I just don't really think there's really any other way to put it, because Quinn left before they traded those guys wrong, wrong, Okay, Yes.
And that's what I'll always wonder.
See, I got my timeline, yeah, and.
I'll always wonder. Now I'll have to look at the exact timing they may have started, if Rudy was first correct, and they may have alluded to like, hey, we're going to break this down and Quinn, we want you to lead this next rebuild. So I'm not completely dismissing your point, because as soon as Quinn decided that he did not want to work for this ownership group for whatever reason, maybe at some point he will say out loud what
it is. I've got guesses. And when Dennis Lindsay had a meeting with the new ownership group and he's like nope, I viewed that as a really bad sign because I have a lot of respect for both of those two and this is revisionist history for sure. But you know, I even believe like you trade Mitchell, you bring in market In, you put market In next to Gobert, you keep Conley and Royce and Yang and all those guys.
But you're still in the middle. Man.
But could you have found your like if if Larry was what he was two years ago? Next to go bear with the rest of those pieces. Is that a championship team? No, but it's not breaking down to the studs and really show at this point no clear direction in a rebuild, which I think is frustrating a lot of jazz fan But.
You were the first guy to point out that you can't tie forty percent of your cap whatever. It's no offensive big yeah, And like it might make more sense in Minnesota where you have a superstar player, like a true superstar player. But clearly, I mean, I don't know what Minnesota's record is right now, but I know it's somewhere around five hundred. Yeah, So there are I'm of
two minds of this. I've always told you that the worst place to be is in the middle, where the jazz have existed for a very very long time, albeit for a couple of years. I ultimately think they made the right move trading those guys because Donovan wasn't gonna stay here. We know that. I mean that's obvious. And for as awesome as Rudy is, I think you kind of saw the height of his potential impact on the roster.
I don't think you were going to see him reach another level with other different players around.
I agree with that second point. I wonder do you think there's anything because Donovan had two years left on his deal.
I mean, you could have waited another year.
Well, and you also chatted with Donovan, and if my memory is serving correctly about you know it was COVID. It was this summer of Black Lives Matter and the murder of George Floyd, and Donovan started thinking differently as a black man, right, And he admitted it, like he learned things about his history that he didn't know about and leaned into being more of a voice, which there's
nothing wrong with that at all. How much of that do you think led Donovanto deciding he simply did not want to live in Salt Lake because prior to that time, my man was at fourth July barbecues. My man was Spider Man when there was a car accident. I mean I always thought it was interesting there was a camera caa like, oh wait, Donald was out a party and people know about.
It, being like super handsome with his cool sis.
But Rudy is donating millions to Pete and no one knows about that. So that was always a little odd. But the first few years here Donovan and look, obviously was it Stuart Adams who was like, go learn about youeral history correct? Obviously dumb ass thing to say. Period, end of story. And I don't begrudge Donovan for not necessarily feeling as welcome here. I don't know what it's like to be a black man in saw Lake where there's two point three percent of the city that looks like you.
I'm sure that's difficult.
But how much of that do you think led to him souring on a place that for the first few years he seemed to really love and people seem to really love him.
I think it played a role in it, for sure, but I don't think it was a major part. I think he is a guy that realized that whether it was the ownership group or the front office or the roster. He just feel like he felt like he couldn't reach his apex here, his apex mountain was not here. And I guess he was right in a sense. But to your point, he isn't a markedly different player right now.
His stat line is pretty much the same. He's on a team that has more talent, more versatile talent, and like, I know that you could compare like the the Go Bear with the Allen and the Garland with the Conley, but the Jazz never had an Evan Mobley, you know, I mean not even close.
Yeah, Go Bears more Jared like, more like a Jared Allen.
I mean, I mean, I feel like you would know. I feel like people thought at one point that Evan Mobley could be like an MVP caliber player. In this second, I mean, he's proven to be very good this year. Again, I think it worked out for the Jazz because he wasn't going to stay here. They got a really good player in return, which is something that we should never like, underscore, because I think you could have traded him to the Knicks and got a bunch of Obi Toppins and the
one kid that doesn't even play for him anymore. Winching Grimes or Miles McBride. We had lots of guys around here doing Miles McBride to even cool at six to one, guy that can shoot me, they have one down, Patty Mills. Breakups are ugly, man. That's that's how I would put it. And there are layers to them and for the jazz they were, they have been lucky for several years, decades
even to avoid where they are now. And now they're here, sure, And it's just the reality of the NBA, which I think, and I've said this on your show a billion times, I think it's why viewership is down. I think it's why interest is down. It is so impossibly hard to get involved and throw your heart into a league where you know, like two or three people have a true shot at winning it every year.
Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And when you don't have the ability to retain the talent you drafted and developed, like there's no chance. It's hard. All right, there's a little basketball on a Wednesday. But coming up next we'll react to what Mark Carlin had to say with today's Desrat news piece. The CFP semi Finals get rolling tomorrow. Chris Comaradni live in studio on a Wednesday Right here on ESPN seven hundred, Chris, Tom Ronnie live in studio
for one more big segment. Wait a second about this, diego oh? Mecca and Nelly shot out on a bench called into US men's national team camp in January.
Huge pretty exciting. Yeah, I mean, it's it's the camp where all of the fringe guys get a shot. But it's cool that your guy, Mariso Pochettino's giving some RSL guys some looks. It is guy, one of the great great Spurs managers in club history.
Indeed, the Spurs are playing right now, aren't they.
They were playing in the Carabell Cup, which against Liverpool, which I know you know a bunch about.
Tell me they won. They did, They beat Liverpool. It's the first leg. Come on, you Spurs, big Spurs man over here. That's what you're supposed to say. That's that's like the fan thing.
Come on, you, Spurs coys. Impressive for Mecca for a number of reasons, like the most prototypical like MLS development story guy smart ivy league dude who got drafted to be a right back in Salt Lakes or Sandy. Let's be honest, Harriman and has now developed into a guy who's made a national team camp. Luna I think is a bigger deal because I do think Mexico at one point wanted to see if he would be willing to switch switch to play for the Mexican national team. But
we'll see. I mean, I think anytime you can be an attacking player and play for a guy like Pacha, I think that's interesting. So I'm fascinated to see how he does.
Do you think there's any shot either those two playing a World Cup? Do you think the team is kind of set?
I mean they're so good right now. I mean, all their best players, if they can stay healthy, they're just their players are starting now at these big clubs. I mean Milan has like two starters, Juventus has two starters. Peppi is finally coming on in the Dutch League. Luna and Nelly maybe, but Tyler Adams has been hurt a lot. But McKenny Adams MUSA, it's hard, but I guess said, I'm just fascinated to see how they look playing in a national team Jersey.
Yeah, it'll be fun. So is this like the Gold Cup cycle?
Kind of? This is kind of like the first look of the potential Gold Cup roster.
Kyle essentially parlayed a really strong Bold Cup into a World Cup.
Yeah correct, Yeah, So I just think unfortunately for both those guys, they play positions where the US is currently pretty stacked. Yeah, I mean Luna as you know, more of a central ten.
Obviously, we don't I call a moon man, but that's me.
We don't. We as the US don't really employ a prototypical number ten. And and but you know, Potch move things around. We're no longer under the casting spell of Greg Berhalter, so who knows.
So this is this is a little bit like when Tony Beltrom got a call up and you're like, sweet, but you'll be back here soon.
I think like Tony played against Mexico at one point, if I'm not missing you, in like a pretty like big game. I think it was one of his very limited caps. I think I just remember because he got to wear the really dope lollipop jersey. But it was like the red, white and blue stack. Yeah yeah, yeah, and that was the coolest one. I think.
Yeah, now I remember that, good, good memory, all right. Shout out to our guy Joe Coles. Exclusive with Mark Carlin University View to Athletic Director, and you and I spoke about the situation following the BYU game the week that it happened, and we don't need to go back there. But of course, as the story goes, I was walking home from the stadium. You were typing away with your piece. Lovely photo we got that day with you, me and Aaron. Good picture, look good.
We didn't show my wife and she's like, dang, you look good.
A nice Okay, yeah, we'll take that from shout out Amanda, And suddenly fun blows up. Are you listening to Harlan? No, here's the link, Oh my gosh. And I thought his statement after the fact was something I missed the Mark, and I said that on Aaron. My guess is Mark probably wanted that moment back, and what he expressed to Joe I think was probably a little bit more in lockstep what I thought he should have expressed in the moment. But hey, we all make mistakes, and then sometimes time
can give us perspective. And we now know that he called Kilani, and he called Tom Holm, he called bray Ormark to apologize for the comments he made after that game. So I won't read everything he had to say to Joe. Then he went on to talk about some other things, but let's just stay in that space as far as your thoughts on what appeared to be a little bit more of a contrite approach a couple of months after the fact.
Yeah, reading part one of the two part series, to me, what stood out the most was Mark pushing back a little bit on the notion that Utah wasn't able to retain its best players. I think he found let me find this quote, something along the lines of, I look at this last year and buy and large, we've been able to retain all the key players that we believe will lift us back to success in twenty five and beyond.
You also lost two of your best defensive players to the portal, which is absolutely, you know, part for the course for pretty much any team in college football. I get it, but I think I think this is kind of what maybe frustrates fans a little bit. Is like acknowledge that there have been some tough times, acknowledge that there have been some losses, and don't necessarily try to not puff out your chest but just make it seem
like everything is honky dory. All the time like it's not it's and that's the case for every program in the country. I mean, you know, we talked to Joe about the revenue sharing bit, which was interesting, you know, Mark talking about you know, how they're planning on delineating the twenty point six million that most schools will get, which is going to be a fascinating component to this
next you know, college sports cycle. I would imagine most of it for most schools goes to football and basketball.
But.
I understand there will still be some nil components to this as well. But yeah, I mean, it's been two months since you know, Mark took the took the mic. I was surprised that it's taken this long, and you know, hopefully he talks to some other local media outlets and gives people a chance to ask him some questions because I think right now, for somebody like Mark, you're in such a unique position where everything is moving so fast
around you in real time. He also has the luxury of having, you know, a stalwart like Kyle come back. And obviously he's, based on his comments to Joe's very optimistic about what the immediate future holds for Utah. But we'll have to see how they look starting next year.
Yeah, and you know, obviously, if you're the AD, you're going to try to spend the most positive you know, you know, you know, storyline and narratives surrounding your program.
But I think to your point, and this is what's kind of bled over into the political discourse in our country and pretty much discourse across the board, like just don't tell me I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, please, And from a fan perspective, like, don't tell me everything is incredible when it's clear right now that things are not as good as we're used to them being. And that's Kyle Be, a victim of his own success and
changing standards here in the market. But you know, since Mark took over, he's the one that fired Larry and hired Craig, and that wasn't met with a lot of enthusiasm from certain people in the market that actually thought Larry was making some headway. That's to be debated, right, but that was Mark's choice to move on from Larry and bring in Craig. He inherited a football program where he didn't have to touch it, and don't think he
has to touch it now. I wonder if part of the messaging is just trying to forward this situation to make it a little bit rosier than it actually is, because he's the ad.
Yeah, and in this culture, we have to do our best of not overreacting to one thing, and by one thing, I mean just one calendar year. And I've said this often on the show recently. It's like, seventeen out of twenty is a pretty good clip for winning winning programs in Utah football, you know, men's basketball, we've talked about. The women's team is really turning the corner and becoming, you know, a one of the best products locally.
To watch consistently. Too.
It's the Larry thing, to me is interesting. I mean, Chris made Larry a top ten paid coach in college basketball, which is which is impressive if you consider some of some of the programs that were way ahead of Utah for a long time. And I think the last time Utah made the tournament was like twenty sixteen. It had been a while, And I don't think that necessarily was the wrong move. I mean, I didn't know Larry that well,
but I knew him well enough. I don't know how Larry would have really enjoyed the NIL a very old
school type. Yeah, but I think ultimately, if you know, based on what Part one was able to show, you know, Mark is bullish on how UTAH is going to attack this new fangled you know world of NIL and revenue sharing and all that stuff, because it's going to be way more in your face, you know, like in the past it was, you know, everyone assumed that, you know, teams in the SEC were quote unquote cheating or you know,
paying players or whatever. Now, especially if you're at a public institution, a lot of the stuff will be able to like be like grammared Foy, it be public public record, So you have to figure out where you're gonna put your money and how you want to invest it. The stakes are higher now than they ever were before. To your point, like Kyle is a victim of his own success locally and nationally, which is why programs come for
as players. So we'll see what happens. I'm fascinated to see what Part two brings.
Yeah, and it's worth your time. He talks about nil, he talks about, you know, raising money at this point, which is probably as important as anything anything else you're doing. On the fundraising side of things. He said, they've been able to double their output to their athletes. And the problem without really any data is you just kind of have to take people at their word, and that's hard to do. And there I don't think there's any proof
or any data one way or the other. The Utah is having a problem keeping talent because everybody loses talent every single year. The national champ will and some of the best teams in college football already have. So it makes it hard to understand what real and what's real and what is And the nice thing about sports is there's a scoreboard, as we say, So if what Mark is saying is true, next year should be better for the football program, then this year.
Plus well yeah, if you get average to above average quarterback play, Utah this year is probably in a much different place. As Bill said earlier on the show, next year is just gonna be a question Mark man, And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. They're just going to have a bunch of players that nobody's ever watched, a lot of new players on offense, a lot of
guys that you don't know how they'll be deployed. You know, an offensive philosophy that is markedly different than what Andy you know, deployed, which when it worked, when it was humming, it was awesome. When he had a healthy quarter exactly well, healthy quarterback, healthy weapons, healthy running back, deep running back room,
it worked. Jason Beck's offense is a little more tantalizing, a little more new age by all accounts, less intricate, less difficult to pick up, and you're bringing in the quarterback that I'm not going to say mastered because while everyone's freaking out about Devin Dampierre, he did get thirty one total touchdowns last year, but through twelve picks, he threw twelve touchdowns and twelve interceptions. Hell of a player
on the ground, he ran for like twenty touchdowns. So but again, like if Utah is going to contend for the Big twelve title next year, they're going to need him to be a much improved passer because this league isn't great, but you can get beat by anybody, and it's just it's Pack twelve back in the back twelves.
So yeah, I'm I think next year we'll just bring so many new lessons for people to find out how Kyle's evolving as a head coach, who Jason Beck is, who these new players are, and like, just like last year, I would caution everybody to take a breather. When State media is telling you that, you know, all these guys are going to be Heisman Trophy finalists and Utah is going to run the table. We have to see how it looks, and we won't see for a very long time.
You've covered Utah football for a long time. For a while, you were the Utah guy for the athletic You have moved on from that beat and you do more macro level things and you have freedom to do other things, which is good for us that are a fan of your work. But you know as well as anybody. And I drew the parallel to ky State because I was listening to this Big twelve podcast. There they were going through the exercise of how this conference will look next year,
and I'm like, dude, all right, good luck. I tried to do it myself. I'm a zero clue. You can pull up the rosters, you can see who's returning, and you can kind of see who's already the transfer portal, but it's such an exercise and futility. But the way they were talking about K State is exactly the way Utah football has been built under Kyle, which is recruit and develop, and the most successful Utah football seasons, just like k State have been when these programs have players
in their third, fourth, fifth years. Is that still a way you can build a contending winning football team in college football in twenty twenty five?
I think you could look at the Big Twelve title game as a dichotomy of how you can do it. I think Arizona State, a lot of transfers and a lot of new guys, young head coach was able to galvanize that group to a surprising season. Iowa States in the same boat as the Utahs and the Kansas States. You know a lot of guys that have been there in that program for a long time, longtime head coach. There are a lot of recruit and developed programs in the Big.
Twelve, is BYU or recruiting Delah and that obviously worked for them this year.
Absolutely. I mean, like if you're trying to think out of their kind of quote unquote breakout players this year, like I said, nobody took a flyer and Jake j didn't have an offer. He had to go to a community college, and nobody does anymore. David running back, recruit and developed elst the offensive line outside of the kid who went to Oklahoma State receivers Aaron and those guys
did a good job. Fesse. They went and got guys like Lasseter Marion, transfer guys, developed, Chase, local guy defensively, defensive line, mostly local guys. Linebacker, room, very very good, all local guys, secondary some some some transfers, but some local guys. I'm just saying, like that conference is a recruit and developed conference. Really if you think about it, maybe outside of Colorado.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
But ultimately it is. I agree, it's an exercise and futility to try to pontificate where people will be come August. But I don't think there's going to be that much more movement because coaches want to have quarterbacks in place. I think you can look at who the odds on starters will be for like each quarterback in the Big twelve right now, and kind of get a sense of
who could beware. But again, at the same time, like we thought that last year, I mean, we thought Cam Rising and Alan Bowman were going to be two of the studs in the Big twelve, and those guys got hurt and weren't really playing at the end, like Bowman got benched off and on and Cam got hurt. So like this conference is kind of wacky, Man.
It is since you referenced Colorado. Every time an NFL job comes open, and a lot of people think the Cowboys job could come open pretty quickly, although they didn't let Mike McCarthy interview with the Bears, which is weird. Raider's job is open, Giants' job is not, thought it might be, but maybe it's just the media trying to create a story, because Dion is a story no matter
what he does. But if the right team that has the right pick comes along and says, hey, we'll hire you, we'll drop your son Dion in Vegas, is that enough to make Deon jump and Lee boulder?
I don't think so. Like I think one thing people overestimate is people estimate Dion's Like I don't want to say ego because I know Dion believes in himself to a level that a lot of people don't, and for good reason. He's an NFL Hall of Famer and is clearly has proven people wrong in the in the coaching realm, but the NFL man, it is unforgiving. You've seen so many coaches in the last few years get their first job, get their first taste, finally made it, fired after one year,
fired after two years. It is not a place for job security. It's not, which is why I don't think Dion will leave Colorado. Now. He might, but like you can, you can be at Colorado. You can do it your way. You walk on water there, you made the most irrelevant power power for conference team in the country. Relevant, You're gonna get paid more because of the success that you've had. You can do things your way. I just don't see it, And he said it himself, like Dion's kind of bravado.
I don't think that goes over all that well with you know, veteran veteran professional players, Like I'm sure a lot of those guys. I mean, I guess we're old. I don't I doubt a lot of those guys watched him growing up. We're past that. That's that's our era. But I just don't think that would go over the same in a professional locker room compared to, you know, trying to convince a bunch of young players to come give Boulder Colorado a chance.
Well it's fair. Then you've done stories on him, so I knew you'd have good perspective. All right, let's end on this. I can ask you a philosophical question. Orange Bowl, No, who do you like in the Orange Bowl? Who do you like to win it?
Who's playing in the Orange Bowl?
That's the cotton is Ohio State, Texas. So the Orange is Notre Dame, Penn State.
I'm gonna go Notre Dame.
Who do you got in the cotton Ohio State? Is anyone getting in Ohio State's way?
Not? If they if they can make life hell for Will Howard, that's the only way.
Yeah, we'll have to say back to philosophy. Oh I have a philosophical question for you, because topically on the show we've discussed because we're a basketball market. You know, we're a jazz market. We're a pro basketball market. We do not have an NFL team. If college football transitions into a pro model and BYU and Utah are involved in that, it will be as close to an NFL team that we've ever had here. And we'll have that field because we'll have blue bloods in town every week.
Let's just hope that if that happens, Utah and BYU get that invite. But it's pretty clear now for about a generation. The last time the NBA was even in the same stratosphere as the NFL as it pertains to interest or ratings was the nineties. Was the late nineties. We have the highest watched basketball game in the history of the world played here in Salt Lake. It was Michael Jordan's last game. So crazy, yep, but it has not been And to be frank, it wasn't close then.
But the NBA was experiencing growth while the NFL was kind of flatlined. They never closed the gap and they never will.
But why do you think it is?
I mean, concussions, domestic of violence, everything that pretty smart people have predicted would put a dent in the world of football consumption in this country has not come close to it. In fact, it's only grown. Why do you think our appetite for football in America is what it is to the point where it's the number one sport and no one else even lives in that could destac.
I mean, this is not a hot take, but this is my opinion. The Savior of the sport was fantasy football. H Yeah, like it. It revolutionized the approach to fandom. It got even fringe people involved. It's one game a week for not very long. It's September to January. It's during generally the harder months of the year where you want to be inside because it's cold. If you live in a cold weather place. A lot of these places that our NFL markets are cold weather places. I think
the demand of basketball is just a lot. I think it's asking a lot for people my age, you know, young parents, Like I can't imagine a world where I'm like, hey, I know it's bedtime, but I gotta see Johnny Juwsan I gotta I know it's bedtime, but I gotta see Johnny jusying in the corner. I'm just being honest, like, it's just it's asking a lot. And I understand that every back and what's really cool and something we don't eat.
We complain a lot about everything. It's insane that you can basically watch whatever team you want to watch on any level of any pro college model. These days, you can find a way to watch. Back in the day, we were pouring through the box scores on the paper or trying to listen on the radio to hear the scores. Now you can find anybody that you want to watch.
It's just asking a lot man and football. I think there is this very unfortunate part of the American subconscious that really really loves to pride itself on this idea of glorifying the gladiator component of this thing. I recently watched one of my favorite movies, Friday Night Lights, which is a great book. It is great show and I hadn't seen the movie in a very long time, and it's really good. Man, I should have had Porterdoo explosions.
Tim mcgride and where he had the big chew as the dads.
The dad was great. It did a good job, insane like one of his first acting jobs. But we're on the West coast, man, like we are. I talk about this with my colleagues at the Athletic all the time. It's like some of my friends cover Ohio State or Texas or Penn State. Like, there are places in this country, man,
that are twenty four to seven, three sixty five. No matter what day of the year, no matter who's in the hospital, you are going to go to the message boards to see did we get the four stark and that is part of the DNA of this country.
Yeah, I know I have homework, but Spee makay Luke is starting tonight.
Who's at She's your take on?
I know it's bedtime, but Johnny Juoz is gonna shoot corner throws all right, c K. Great to see my friends. Best to Amanda and lill Leo and now will chattoo right.
Thanks