On Top Of The World

our country, especially especial Lebron James. We look for an opportunity of the weekend on a flam and being the best in the world. I guess the Redeem Team is as it is right. We're the rest team in the world. We're the best team in the world. We put Basketball America basketball wheat, which is at the top. M Hello and welcome to Kobe, Lebron and the Redeemed Team. This is episode one which we're calling on top of the world. I'm Jack McCallum who brought you the Dream Team tapes,

and this is its worthy sequel. See the story of the Redeem Team, sometimes overlooked, is in its on its own. In my opinion, every bit is intriguing as a dream Team that preceded them by sixteen years. And one of the things I found out by doing the Dream Team tapes is how eager these guys were to talk about it.

For even guys that were all Stars, Hall of Famers, one Champ being Chips, it was a really special time in their lives, which is why I was able to get inside the heads of players like Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. And in the same way, the Redeemed Team defines a lot of these guys career And in the coming weeks, you're gonna be hearing from the players, the coaches, and the executives who were so eager to share their thoughts on what was an important part in

their lives. So here's a quick snapshot, but some of those voices you'll be hearing. We all understood the pecking order. We knew Kobe and Lebron, uh, we're gonna shoot the ball, or that you know, more or less Kobe was going to shoot the ball. I've never said this, but I remember sitting there watching those guys when we were in harmony. You can't play better than this. The most pressure moment I've ever had as a coach was the gold medal game with eight minutes to go. The year is two

thousand and eight. The games of the twenty nine Olympiad an American basketball team, an American basketball program really bent on turning around its diminished fortunes, which included a sixth place finished in the two thousand two World Championships and even worse, a mere bronze medal in the two thousand four Olympics. And assets, the United States team was on a mission. There was magic in the air. Actually there was smog in the air. Hey, we're in Beijing after all.

But this two thousand and eight team turned out to be a breath of fresh air for our Olympic program. But it wasn't easy. They'll be joined by j Addande, who himself was heard recently talking about a dream teamer somebody named Jordan's in the terrific Beyond the last dance that he did with b J Armstrong, a former teammate

of Jordan's j A take it away, hey, Jack. I'll be focusing on the Kobe Bryant aspect of this because it's so fascinating to me both the impact that Kobe had on this team and that this team and that this experience had on Kobe. And the reason I'm focused on Kope so much is that I was in Los Angeles working at the l A Times and then ESPN for nineteen of Kobe's twenty seasons with the Los Angeles Lakers.

So we'll be talking to his teammates and his coach, Phil Jackson, getting perspective on Kobe in addition to how he fit into this two thousand and eight Olympic team, which wasn't that easy, just like it wasn't always that easy for him to fit into the Los Angeles Lakers. We got filled to come out of hiding for this j Yeah, that was all you, jack That was a

good get, as they say in the media business. But through the power of email and some persistence on your part, we were able to get Phil Jackson, you don't really hear from very often these days. We had about an hour with Phil talking about the ark of his time with Kobe, and that was a fascinating discussion. We'll be hearing a little bit of that today and plenty more as we go through this podcast series, and I think you're gonna find yourself immersed in this, as both of

us were in this project. And so we'll hear about the redemptive arts of Kobe and the players like Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony who are on the two thousand four Olympic team, and they got the chance to rectify that disappointing Bron's medland Athens. And it's also about to

turnaround the USA basketball. It was led by Jerry Colangelo and how he got the players to buy into a concept that was bigger than even the biggest names in the NBA, and how Mike Schoki got these players to listen to a college coach, thanks in part to a few time left bombs. And along the way we'll learn things like Lebron's preferred drink and which player almost got left behind on a night out in Macau, China. And it all led to this glorious golden moment that Mike

Shachofsky described. That's as much pressure as any of the teams have had during that time. And what a joyous celebration afterwards. So moment in time that you know, some of the greatest players in the history of our game could share together. I can't explain the moment. And our guys were so reverent they looked so good, and they got gold medals around and the national anthems playing and their flags raised above all the others and incredible, and

so Jack. The moment that I got into this team was when they had that Nike commercial with them running around the court and working out to the Marvin gaybers into the Star Spangled banner. And we'll hear from Coach k and some of the players about how much they really got into that song. And he utilized that anthem almost every time that they were together to help motivate them and here, and it actually motivated me to get

into this team. And so I've been fascinated by this group for a while, and I'm always fascinated by the social dynamics of a team, and this collection was really intrigued and I can't wait to tell the story of them with you. I was at that All Star game when Marvin Gay We're gonna be talking about that anthem later, but it's very rare you capture an iconic moment at the moment that it happens. But that's exactly what happened

with that national anthem. They might not have said it, but we're gonna be listening to that thing for a hundred years. Man, it was interesting to hear how much Showski, you know, a product of the u United States Military Academy. It was interesting to see how much he embraced that version of it, and how much he embraced the military too.

As we get into that, and every little motivational tactic, every angle that Showski tried, it worked and it resulted in that gold medal in that triumph in Beijing in two thousand and eight. And there's a clip from right after that gold medal game which they defeated Spain, and Kobe's there and he's got his arms around Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade and Lebron James is standing next to

Dwyane Wade. A little foreshadowing there, and Kobe was giddy and he reverted back to that same Michael Jordan like in plaction that he had when he first came in the league. It was like he rediscovered the enthusiasm from his teenage years. Jack and let's take a listen. Incredible, We've been waiting for this for a while. He's back one time. This is what it's all about. This is what it's all about. What having a blast right now. Now.

I hadn't seen him this physically affectionate with his teammates since he won his first championship with the Lakers in two thousand and we're gonna roll the clips some more, and you'll hear Kobe answers another question, and Carmelo chimes in, and then Lebron James provides some of his usual matter of fact analysis, and then you're also gonna hear Kobe call out se pete three when Chris Paul joins him. Chris is holding his victory cigar and it starts to win.

A reporter asked him, how did you feel when Spain pulled within two and what was going through your mind? It was us enjoy challenge, You enjoy competition. We enjoined every minute of this is fun, This is movie all wanted. That's what made it that much better. Man, That's what he wants. Gonna be a Kike walk like it was last game. Um, Spain brought the eight plus game and and we did too, So come on and take care of business. We did it the right way, So Jack,

let's stop and appreciate it for a moment. You have four of the top thirty scorers in the history of the NBA. Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Dwayne Wade, Lebron, and Chris Paul are in the career top ten for assists, and of course Jason Cabe was on the team the number two all time assist leader at the moment, he was probably off somewhere icing his knees. He was the old man on that team. And it's not just the accomplishments

of that group, it's the bond. And again that really gets to my central premise about this team, the Redeemed Team, is that Kobe was good for these guys because he showed them what it took to put yourself at the very top, that extra bit of work it takes. And the Redeemed Team experience was good for Kobe because it showed him how to be a part of the group.

And I thought it was interesting that when we asked Carmelo Anthony for the memories that stood out from him for that two thousand Olympic experience, he took it right back to Kobe, the way that he like bought himself to become so comfortable with us in and the players on the team, and you know, really understanding like okay, like this is a band of brothers him Like you saw him like slowly letting his guard down, even on the buses, you know, even going to the Olympic village

and going to other sports levans, Like you saw the guard coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he was fully immersed in and what we was doing and being there with us, and that was something that was like Okay, he finally like, okay, we got the last brick down, like we you know, he's the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. Damn. We did a good job,

like every was. You almost felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh the way that he was laughing and you know, talking and communicating and stories and just like you, we felt that We always say, lions don't hang with others, don't hang with nobody other than lions. Right when you put it that way to him and you messed with the you know that this a rebal part of it. He locks in and I think that's what that's what he was dealing with. Like he knew like he was being sharpened by us and we were

being sharpened by him. We understood that. And so when Kobe got back to l a and they're getting ready to start the season in l A. In two thousand and eight, he meets with Phil Jackson and Phil was curious. He asked Kobe what it was like, and I talked to him about the pleasure of playing and that uh Olympics. He talked about the amount of fund they had, that we were really at a great time. He was very

assistant about that. I asked him about various characters. I asked him about Dwayne Wade and and you know Lebron that they could keep up with him, and uh, you know if he drilled them as hard as he drilled some of his teammates. And he said yeah. And I said, uh, did you get him up in the morning and worked out at six o'clock before? Yeah, I got him up and yeah he did all that. And jack Phil had that sort of amused look as he told us that

story and recalled that moment for Kobe. And it was a different Kobe Bryant, and it was a more successful Koke Bryan. As we'll see, he goes on to win the next two NBA championships. So it wasn't just a culmination. It really launched a lot of those guys and I think they were all better for that experience. Yeah, and you know, years, four years earlier, we're gonna be talking about that a little bit. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back in just a moment.

You know, you forget how these guys themselves had down points in their career in two thousand four, the Olympics that we're gonna be talking about later, when we did not win a gold medal, Lebron Mellow, Dwayne Wade more or less. You know, they felt like losers. They were being called upon as only rookies to kind of have a prominent place on this big team. And you know, the moral is even guys like this need to grow. And it would be interesting to know how much this

two thousand eight Redeemed Team helped them do that. I mean, Lebron and Dwayne obviously went on to win, and Chris Bosh went on to win championships together. And you wonder what a formative moment this was for all these guys and the Redeem Team. Some of them, you know, didn't really need it. Jason Kidd was a little more forward in his career, but for all the other guys. That was important. And we're not gonna take you through the games of two thousand eight here. They'll be coming more

near the end of the podcast. But there's a moment after the gold medal game that seems of small importance, but it was really not. And Sean Ford, who's the veteran director of basketball operations for USA Basketball, talks about it. The guys wanted champagne, right, Uh, that was a big thing for them, especially like I remember Lebron he said, let's treat this like a real champion. We watched Champagne and that, and and I remember talking with said Jason, like,

we can do the champagne. You just gotta remember, like when we come back to the locker room, we got to go back out for the metal ceremony. We can't have you guys sprain each other. And it was particularly important for Jason Kidd, as he explains here in two thousand we really didn't get a chance to celebrate. I think we were exhausted and we were just ready to go home. And I told Si, like, we we have

to celebrate. Now. Jason's talking about the what I would call I think j referred to it as the invisible Olympics. It was a two thousand games in Sydney. It was forgotten Jack. Yeah, I mean if you think about it during the other hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere, and the time difference was so great and we couldn't stream back then, right, we were at the mercy of when NBC was going to show the games, and there were time times they'd be showing a game and it was so delayed because

of the time difference. Like I not only knew the results of that game, I knew the result of the next game after that. And one thing, it was an important step in the Internet though, because I would say the Vince Carter dunk, the famous Vince Carter dunk from that Olympics over Frederick Weiss. That was one of the first viral Internet moments. And it was viral through email, right.

There wasn't social media back then, but somehow somebody got their hands on a blocky, low resolution clip of that dunk and they would email it around and get forward and forward, and you get the email when it finally gets you to have like forward forward, forward, forward, forward forward, and you'd watch it on like real player or Windows Media Player or something, and it was really blocky and slow. But that's how you saw the greatest moment of that game.

But it wasn't something that we watched collectively. The dunk day La Mort's as the French call up. I didn't even really remember this. It came after a steal and Vince Carter almost jumps completely over the seven ft two inch Frederick Weiss, who from that moment kind of got you know, he was the first person to be eternally posterized. I mean that's uh, that's probably in the first paragraph of every Frederick White story written since then, and really

there haven't been many. But I was at those games. I covered those games for Sports Illustrated and it's a sad omission, j A. But I didn't even want to cover basketball. I covered women's cycling race, I covered Greco Roman wrestling. And it speaks to kind of this invisible time. You know, there was still this kind of hangover from the Dream Team, and we couldn't quite get our focus on it, and we came very close to losing a game.

As Jason Kidd explains here, We're like, we have gone back to the States, could we have you know, shown our face after you know, losing Uh in the Olympics. Now, Kid is so right. We would love to get the audio from that final moment when the Americans could have lost, but it costs about a million dollars a moment, so I'm gonna have to recreate it. Semifinal game against Lithuania, four points, six seconds left, United States leads to eighty three.

Lithuania erunus. Yes, uh Covicius is dribbling, guarded by Kid. He goes right, Kid forces him left, time running out, Yes, a Capshus goes up. Antonio mcdie comes out the shot that could beat the Americans and shock the world was wide left. The United States win eighty three, and the US, still being called the dream team in some quarters, goes on to beat France in the gold medal game by twelve, but clearly something was changing in the world. You're listening

to Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. We'll be back right after this. Now, do you remember the Olympics in Atlanta? What do you remember from those four years earlier? Jake, Yeah, I covered those That was my first Olympics and there was still the halo effect of ninety two, and you still had some of the Dream teamers, right. Charles Barkley most notably was on that team. David Robinson was on that team. So you still have some members of the original dream Team, and it was just so tough to

live up because you didn't have the true stars. You didn't have Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, you didn't have those guys around, so it couldn't live up to them, Uh and Jack. The debate was whether or not we should still be calling the dream team. So I think USA Basketball was trying to keep that alive, and especially the ninety four World Championship team, they definitely called that dream team too, and in the players in particular were

still using the dream Team moniker. I think there were still some basketball pins that said dream Team on them. But one person who was adamantly against using that moniker was Michael Jordan himself. I'll never forget he comes to Washington and I asked him, I said, Michael, what do you think about them calling this still the dream Team.

Almost before I could finish the question, looks at me, says there's only one dream team the rest of the duplicates, and he gave me that glare that Michael Jordan glare. His eyes were just raising. The furnace behind those eyes was raging at me on fire, and so laser eyes, man, laser eyes. After that, I certainly didn't use Dream Team anymore because I was afraid Michael Jordan would hunt me down and snatch the newspaper and throw my laptop in

the trash. I looked back at the two thousand, you know, four years after that, and there was still a kind of modest effort to use Dream Team. They would have been dream Team four, you know, the team in Sydney, but by then it was starting to kind of flame out. And even though, like you said, there were five members of the original Dream Team on that team, but they really paid a price for following the Dream Team and they kind of knew it, you know, That's what was hard. Hey, hey,

where's our attention? Where are the fans for our games? And I kind of likened it to the astronauts that followed, you know, Neil Armstrong. There's only one person that gets to the moon first, and in this case, uh, you know, extending that metaphor, it was the Dream Team that did it. And I just remember I talked to Charles about it. Charles Barkley about the nineties six games, when the Americans still won every game in a runaway. They were still

very good. And here is Charles's succinct wrap up of the nine Olympic experience. So, you know, it's hard to put your finger on exactly why these guys paid such a price that, as I said, the thing I put on a most lee is hangover. There was this hangover, and Showsky later on talked to us about what the difference might have been, and it was almost like the dream Team came along, they made their impact, and they

grew the game around the world. There's no question they speeded up international players coming into the NBA, but they were kind of, as far as the United States was concerned, kind of a one off. And here's Mike Shaski talking about that in the evolution of USA basketball. USA Basketball two had no culture, but the group that they assembled brought the NBA's culture of the eighties into it, where all those guys truly believed that they built a product that was gonna last and it was classy by the

fifteen years later. That was not the case in the NBA either. You know, there was more individualism and whatever, and the culture that they brought in ninety two didn't

stay with USA Basketball. So the perfect storm that surrounded the Dream Team Jay it the fact that it was new, it was the certainly global pre eminence of Jordan's as a crossover corporate figure, the newness of it all, the fact that was in this exotic city, Barcelona, the fact that international audiences had seen glimpses of the Dream Team

but they hadn't really seen them together. It all came together to kindness form this kind of magical time and anything that came after that couldn't match up to it until our guys, the Redeemed Team came on and two

thousand eight and kind of formed their own identity. And it's kind of ironic because the Dream Team version was I would say successful beyond anyone's a man nation, both capturing the gold medal that had been lost in in Seoul in but that was the you know, presumably the primary mission, but really this was about growing the game of basketball internationally, helping the NBA brand internationally, and it

succeeded in those regards beyond anyone's imagination. Traveling in Germany, for example, in in two thousand and six, for the World Cup and seeing a cutout of Allen Iverson in a shoe store. They're in Germany. I've been to Africa and seeing Penny Hardaway jerseys in Africa. Throughout the world, NBA basketball and NBA players probably became the most recognizable

American athletes. So it worked in that regard. Uh, It helped spread basketball and it made it tougher though for USA basketball, because as we've discussed, it was harder for those subsequent teams to live up for that, and the ninety two Dream Team inspired players around the world to elevate their games to try to match that. They'd seen the template, now they've seen the standard, and now they were all shooting for that. They succeeded or failed to

varying degrees. But you can't dispute the fact that international basketball was elevated by their exposure to the Dream Team. So now it became harder for subsequent teams. Was too soon for that really to take effect on the court. The Dream Team, you know, cruise to the championship. The games were really boring, Jack, how was it? Everyone? The most memorable moment was they presented Muhammad Ali. They re gave him his gold medal from the nineteen sixty Olympics.

That legend has it he thrown in the river in Louisville. They presented Ali with the gold medal at halftime in one game. Dennis Rodman for some reason shows up at another game and cause a big commotion in the stands. And that's all I can remember from the nine Olympic basketball experience. Well, that's two more things than I remember. J What I clearly remember are some of these moments

from the two thousand eight Redeemed Team. And you're gonna give us a little preview of the next episode when we're going to concentrate on Code, who is obviously one of the central characters of the Redeemed Team, one of the central figures in the history of the NBA, and somebody whose death is obviously top of mind right now since it happened a little over a year ago. So give us a little sample of what's going to go

on in episode two. Well, it's amazing how much he became a focal point of the two thousand eight team, and everyone we talked to in some way or another talked about Kobe's impact, and in a lot of ways, the team became centered around him, so it almost demanded a separate episode dedicated to Kobe and so what we'll get into his impact on the team, but we'll really tell the story from the time he came into the league in and the difficulties he had assimilating and messing

with his teammates and trying to come into the fold learning under Phil Jackson. And again Phil Jackson has some great stuff to tell us about Kobe. We also talked to his teammates like Robert ry to give us their impressions of young will be in the Progression of Kobe. So we'll really get the ark of Kobe Bryant from his rookie year through this time in two thousand and eight, all the ups and downs and and yes including the sexual assault case in Colorado which became a big part

of his story. So we'll look at that journey for Kobe and I would say the redemption story of Kobe Bryant. And here's some of the interviews that will be hearing and the people that will be hearing from in that episode. I remember Cole was just like everybody's going like at a third of speed and Kobe's going one hund and shoot around like, does this guy noticed the shoot around and he was like, you know, I gotta go hard because I'm trying to start. I'm like, dude, it shoot around.

Nobody goes hard. And he just had all his energy and I said, that's that's an eighteen year old or you know that you're gonna have all that energy and when you wait, wait to this agem um game grinding here, you're gonna slow down. And it was just one of those things. He was just trying to learn the game, and he was just one of those guys that was

in the gym constantly trying to get better. I mean every plate he was going hard and that It was kind of Kobe's mindset was that he wanted to be considered one of the greatest that ever played the game and was concerned about it, uh and was going to do something about it. And no one's gonna stand in his way about it either. So we'll hear that in so much more in episode two of Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team. I'm ja done for this episode. I'm

Jack McCallum. We look forward to joining you for episode two. The Dream Team Tapes, Season two. Kobe Lebron and The Redeemed Team is a production of Diversion podcast Asks in association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever you get your podcasts. This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast

and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer Freddie Overseegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark Frantz. Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our director of Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein Diversion Podcasts