Cruising and Snoozing

for the two thousand and eight Olympic Team. The twelve players selected for the honor of representing the United States in the two thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Carmelo Anthony of the Denver Nuggets, Carlos Boozer of the Utah Jazz, Chris Bosh of the Toronto Raptors, Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers, Dwight Howard Orlando Magic, Lebron James Cleveland Cavaliers, Jason Kidd Dallas Mavericks, Chris Paul New

Orleans Hornets, Tayshawn Prince Detroit Pistons, Michael Read Milwaukee Bucks, Dwyane Wade Miami Heat, and Darren Williams Utah Jazz, and I'm j A. Dande joined by Jack McCallum, and this is episode nine of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team. We're calling it Cruising and Snoozing Teamy to say, cruises through pool play at the Olympic Games and one assistant

coach has trouble staying awake. But Jack, let's start with a quick look at the top of the roster that Chalangelo just gave it, and it had ten members of the two thousand and eight All Star teams there, so this this elite crop of players from the NBA. Of course, she had Kobe, who was the reigning m v P it just won his first and only m v P award earlier that spring, and then he would go on to win the next two NBA finals MVPs Lebron James,

who would win the next two MVP awards. The Most Valuable Player in two thousand nine in Chris Paul, who was the MVP runner up in two thousand and eight. He led the NBA and win shares in two thousand eight for the analytics crowd. He also led the league and assistant steals in two thousand nine. H Dwyane Wade the two thousand six NBA Finals m v P the NBA's leading score the season. After the Olympics in two

thousand eight oh nine and Dwight Howard. We forget about the impact of Dwight Howard and how coveted he was at that time. He was in the top five and m VP voting every year from two thousand and eight, Ton culminating as the runner up for the m v P inn that award went to Derrick Rose, and after these Olympics he wins the next three Defensive Player of the Year awards. So, Jack, that's a sense for the star power at the top of this roster. And I mean, if you look at it, it's this is the elite

of the NBA at that time. A couple of things strike me there, j And the first thing is, since we make so many references to the the Dream Team, if you took the top three players on a dream team were uh, Jordan's Bird, Magic, but not at that time. You know, Burden Bird retired the season after and Magic was close to the end of his career. So I would say the top three players on that team at the time they were playing, you could disagree or agree with,

was Michael h Scottie Pippen, and Charles Barkley. We're gonna get into later whether the Redeemed came, of course a hopeless hypothetical. Could the redeem Team beat the Dream Team? But could Superman beat up Batman? But you know, we love, we love hypotheticals. Kobe Lebron and d Wade at the top of this roster, that might be better. We don't have time to deconstruct that because you do have the Jordan's factor perhaps overweighing everything. But that's the first thing

that strikes me. The second Jay and I didn't remember this till you, God bless you did the research. Chris Paul m v P runner up in two thousand eight, and uh, there's only been one m v P six ft m v P in the history of the league, and that was of course Alan Iverson to win runner up of the m v P in in that time. And to think of what a defensive presents Chris Paul might be the best small defender, uh, in the history of the league. And we're gonna see he was very

important to this team. But that really stuck out to me. Yeah, and and later he would go on to defend Kevin Durant in playoff games. I remember one time there was a Clipper Oklahoma City Thunder series and they switched Chris Paul on the Durant and he defended him effectively and they come back in the fourth quarter and win that game. Also amazingly successful at winning jump balls. Regardless of who

he was up against, he would win jump balls. And I was thinking about this last night Jack before we recorded this, about how Chris Paul. No, he hasn't won a championship, but the number of playoff games he won

has to count for something. And we look at the impact he's had, uh as we're taping as the last couple of seasons with Oklahoma City, going there and then coming to Phoenix and turning these teams that were not really playoff contenders into playoff contenders and winning more playoff games, and that has to count for something. He he doesn't have all the hardware that some of the other guys on his team had or would go on to have, but this guy did a lot of winning and put

up a lot of impressive statistics. Yeah, Lebron, you know we're recording this as Lebron's in the middle of an injury and you don't know what's going to happen out in that Western Conference. But you're right. I mean Chris Paul, uh, he is really an elevator and I will always have a soft spot for m J. I was working on the story about twelve thirteen years ago. I had this idea to do a story on last second shots, how they're set up, who, what the strategy is. Does the

same guy always take him? And I don't. I can't remember why I picked going to New Orleans. And I'll be damned if Chris doesn't hit a second shot. I mean, that never works out when you have this kind of there's your lead, right, you had your lead. Oh man, I walked into the locker room. I'll never forget this Chris Paul like as this big smile. I knew because I had talked to him before the game about it,

and it was pretty extraordinary. I want to ask you one other thing, though, about Dwight Howard and what you just said about him. This is on me a little bit, I guess I never I've never seen a great player with great numbers who's been as kind of roundly trashed as Dwight, and I've sort of. And and by the way, he's still playing and now he's you know, still contributing with the seventies sixers. And he stayed down long enough,

I think to be become likable. Like I think, think about how acrimonious the split was when he left the Lakers, and they loved him in the twenties twenties season. Laker fans loved him when he came back and helped them win a championship. You know, he's he's a guy that's better suited apparently as as the as a supporting cast. He he wasn't quite cut out to be the guy. But even though he had monster numbers, you know, he was a ay, I think he was twenty two and

fourteen guy the season of the redeemed team. But as we're gonna see in these games, we're gonna talk about it a little bit. Um he's not He doesn't assume like a back to the basket, throw it into him position because he never had sort of a signature move and he couldn't really face up, and you couldn't you know, and you couldn't put him at the free throw line. So maybe all those reasons I'm sort of doing a

maya culpan. Now, I really was not kind to Dwight Howard, but I'm looking at these numbers you've dug up, and I guess I should have been a nicer guy to him. Well, for some reason, we didn't let him do By we, I mean the media and the fans and social media, we just didn't let him be himself. And he was an outsized personality, and he did like to have fun.

And he's the type of guy that would go over and as he's on his way to check it into the game, maybe there's a fan sitting courtside with a tub of popcorn, and he would reach in and grab some popcorn, and we'd also, what are you doing. You're you can't be grabbing popcorn and you've got a game to play. But if Lebron did something like that, would say, oh, look at Lebron interacting with the fans right right right.

And and so his his goofiness, his playfulness, And we asked that of our athletes, and we want them to be characters. We don't want them to be robots. And here he was not only a player with the personality, a big man with the personality, with the playful personality, which the lack of that playful personality had gotten everyone from wil Chamberlain the Kareem Abdul Jabbar on the wrong side of the ledger with the fans and media right and and he did so many things that we asked

of everyone else. But when Dwight Howard did it, for some reason, everybody turned on him and hated for it, in part because Jack he didn't have the results first. And remember Lebron was hated for a year, and then he goes to Miami, and well, he was hated when he went to Miami, and then he wins a championship and the playful aspect of him comes back and everyone

loved him. And remember the time a fan hits a half court shot and Lebron comes running out the out of the heat huddle and he tackles him at half court. And if he had done that a year earlier, everyone probably would have said, why wasn't he in the huddle listening to the coach poster drop of play? And instead he does this, and it's like, oh, look at Lebron, He's having fun. Isn't this great? And it Dwight is really a lesson in how we allow some people to

do things that we don't allow others to do. That's true, I will, I will, I will accept that, but I'll still never love him. But go ahead, move on, move on, Let's talk about Lebron. Speaking of Lebron. To watch Lebron at this stage in his career, Jack, if you remember, it was just breathtaking. And I'm sure you had the

opportunity as I did. I was fortunate enough to be able to watch him from either courtside or near the court, and taking advantage of our press passes, we got the chance to see up close a man that big, move that fast. And when I used to try to urge people to see Lebron, if at all possible, at whatever costs, to see him in person, to try to if you could obtain a good seat, to see him in person, because that was a phenomenon unlike anything else I've seen

in my two plus decades covering league. I'm wondering if you can compare to anything. And you're with three four decades of cover in the NBA, maybe five, but we'll leave it at for No, there's nothing like Lebron. You know, we will never get uh, we will never fully be able to get that thing. Is he the best? He will never be listed as a point guard. I mean that is never gonna happen, even though he had the

damn ball in his hands during playoffs. As much as like you know the line, there is Magic and Oscar Robertson. They are the two big point guards. If you just took someone conducting the offense facing the basket still has his dribble. Come on, I love Magic. Lebron's the guy. I mean yeah, I mean he was. He was Magic's vision, Magic's passing ability, and let's talk about the pinpoint preciseness. Another thing I got to see up close one time

during practice. There's an open practice session they had during the NBA Finals at the Warrior's practice facility, and I was able to stand behind like Channing Fry Chain Fries in the corner and Lebron's throwing these passes out to him as they're going through their scrimmage or their walk through, and to be able to be right behind the player and to see the player's perspective as Lebron would throw

to him. And he doesn't do this quite as well now as he did in his prime, but he would deliver the past, precisely in the right place to make it easiest for his teammates to catch and shoot. It was just right on target. The shooting pocket pocket is what the players call it, and Lebron would zip that ball right into the player's shooting pocket. If you go back and watch him at his peak, notice when his teammates catch the ball, they don't have to maneuver it anywhere.

It's right where it needs to be. The other thing watching him here in these two thousand eight games, seeing him in that Team USA jersey, the cut of the jersey reminds me of his first stint in Cleveland. You can kind of identify Lebron the different stages of his career also by the looseness or tightness of his jerseys. And this is still first Cleveland Lebron wearing his jersey the same way he did in that same type of jersey.

Members a different jersey in his first stint in Cleveland than than they had in the second stint in Cleveland. And the shorts were huge back then. They would drop below the knee. I can't get over how big they were. But it's not just the look, it's the way he plays. He he was always facing the basket. He was always driving. This is the Cleveland Lebron, right. He he wasn't shooting outside very much. They were giving him the outside shot in the NBA games and plenty of times during Olympics

they just said, here's that shot. And back then, Chris Bosh, who was still a back to the basket player, Um, Lebron evolved that back to the basket style that you see now where he'll her back guys and he'll shoot that fade away or or dreamshake moves like that. But back then, Chris Bosh was playing with his back to the basket, and he was envious that Lebron always got to play facing the basket. And I was always been jealous of Lebron during his career because you know, everybody's like, man,

oh wow, this is so incredible. He does this. Of course he does it. He's been looking at offenses and yeah, he's been looking at the offenses with the ball in his hands, facing the whole court, the whole half court, for his entire lifetime of his career. Because he started out as a point guard. As a big I'm like, damn, dude, I don't even know what's behind me. You know what I mean, if I go up to the elbows really over and I don't get to see it from that angle,

you know. So him being able to see the offensive flow of the game all the time. See when somebody's face is like, Okay, let's get let's get let's get shot. Now, let's get see me a shot. I see the look on his face. Let's get it to him. He's always been a facilitator and a distributor, and with that said, he can always create his own shot, you know. So asking him to sacrifice um to move the ball for the sake of moving the ball, I mean, he's he's

always gonna be for it. But I would argue that Lebron earned that right by being such a good playmaker. And Jack, I'm wondering where does Lebron fit in among the bigger players who have essentially been point guards. So Lebron is listed as a small forward, but he runs the point and when you compare him to others of his height range, how does Lebron fit in the lineage?

And who else can we really compare him to. I was struck by the way I remember when we're doing that interview with Chris Bosh, and you do not hear other players use the word jealous. You know, it really struck me when Chris it's a it's a factor both of you know, the magnificence of Lebron, but also Bosh, you know, thinking thinking like that. You know he thought he thought a little differently. Um. I can remember during the playoffs. This is probably why I'm doing a podcast

instead of coaching an NBA team. But I used to scream take him off, take Lebron off of the ball once in a while. I mean, what do you want the guy to do. He's gonna have to get the key, reeb He's got to score. He's gonna have to find the right guy. If he does give it up, he's gonna have to get the key rebound. He was one of the best late game rebounders I've ever seen. If you look at his games, the rebounds he gets, like in the final four or five minutes are amazing. And

he's gonna have to lock down somebody on defense. And I always thought he was more effective. Let somebody else bring it up and get him to it. Get it to him maybe at the elbow. So when you factor everything in the responsibilities that he had, and he's also going to run that offense. As I said, he's never gonna to be listed as a point guard the way that magic point guard PG. That's what he is. That is not Lebron. I guess he goes down as a

small forward. But there's nobody like him Ja, particularly as you mentioned, since he got a three point shot and a and a step back. Uh, nobody like him. Michael. One year they kind of put Michael on the ball, you know that Michael was yeah, and he starts and he could have been it. It wasn't exactly the same. I think Lebron stands apart in that class as a guy running the offense facing the basket, who can shoot outside,

who can take it to the basket, like nobody. Uh, you know, I don't even know who compared him to. I guess Michael, and then find a guy also, there's nobody like Lebron. And the same thing Jack is. This team comes smack in the middle of a golden era of really traditional size point guards. Maybe they didn't all play the position traditionally, but you had Chris Paul and Darren Williams who were both on this team, and and we we had a great debate going on and who

was the best point guard? And Chris and and Darren were certainly in the midst of that. Jason Kidd, who was on this team, not really in the debate as much at this point. He probably held the title earlier in the decade. Uh then you had Steve Nash, who's Canadian, so he wasn't eligible to play on Team USA. Rajon Rondo was the reigning champion, the point guard on the Boston Celtics that year, and then Russell Westbrook had just been drafted by the still Seattle SuperSonics as they were

on their way to Oklahoma City. Derek Rose gets drafted in two thousand nine by the Bulls with the number one pick. So this field, this this pack for the title of best point guard in the NBA gets even more crowded. And it's amazing to think that here's Darren Williams on this team. The twelve best players are the best team that we could assemble at the United States And at that point he had yet to make an All Star team, and it was a function of just

how many great players there were at that position. So he qualifies for this team, and yet he hadn't made an All Star team yet. Yeah, and they you know, they got they got through this selection process Jay without a lot of uh controversy. I mean when I look back and I did some I did some research. I talked to some some people today kind of on background, and I said, well, who was piste off that they didn't make it? Because in oh seven, oh six, oh seven,

We've talked about this before. You had some other guys floating around. You had uh you know, agent double zero, you had Gilbert Arenas, you had and when I was the two I was most surprised about was Chauncey, Billups and Paul Pierce. But Paul had kind of taken himself out because of injuries. Uh maybe he wasn't at the peak of his career and had been on that World Championship team in two thousand two that finished in you know, a millionth place in Indianapolis. But uh, and lamar odom

it was a great national team player. But even they were not pissed off when the guards were Jay Kid, Uh, Chris Paul and Darren Williams because uh, Chauncey played later. Chauncey played in two thousand ten for the USA basketball. So one of the great underrated things about this team was able to assemble these guys and like you said that, you know, Darren Williams could have been considered a little

bit of a surprise, but hey, he absolutely belonged. And at that point you could get an argument as to whether, hey, who do you want him or Chris Paul Right, there are arguments on about who should be on the team, and they were. It was just a fun argument, a great debate to have. Trust me, we got a lot of mileage on it on those ESPN debate shows on who was the best point guard in the NBA, and

it reminded me I missed this, Jack. We don't have these musical debates anymore, like who's a better singer Whinney Houston and Mariah Carey, or who's the best drummer? Um, you know, best singer all time? Of course, there's no debate as Aretha frank And it's amazing that it's such a subjective field. Music is so much more subjective than sports. But you're not gonna get an argument there. Aretha Franklin

is the greatest pop singer of all time. But you could have the contemporaries Whitney versus Mariah best guitarist, right, I we we just don't have those arguments anymore. And that that best point guard debate reminded me of that Whitney and Maria. I. You know, I'm my daughter in laways gonna kill me because she plays Mariah Carey the Christmas Mariah Carey song from December one until January one. But jeez, I'm just not seeing that. Whitney Houston seems

to be in a class a buff. Well. My thing is Mariah had the better voice, Whitney was a better singer. I'd be willing to spend another hour on this if you want to, but I might be a separate podcast. But back to basketball, people would would generally rank Chris Paul ahead of Darren Williams, but Darren would always kill him head to head. The numbers wouldn't even be close when they when they were matched up against each other.

And uh, we asked Darren about that. He he was gentle about that, but we we did ask him about that internal competition on this team between him and Chris Paul. I think it was a friendly rivalry, you know, because I had known I had known c P since college um. You know, we went to Nike camp and Jordan campus counselors as college counselors and met each other there. We played against each other his sophomore year, my junior year one of the first games of the season, and so

who won. Um we did? We did um and we uh. We kept in touch and and then you know, throughout the first couple of years in the NBA, we stayed friends. And when he came in town, we go eat, and when I came in town, we go eat, hang out. And so but when that you know, we stepped on the court, it was it was always competitive. You know. I always wanted to beat him and he always wanted to beat me, and so it was just kind of

a friendly rivalry from that moment on. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and radeem Keith, Jay and I will be back in a minute. You know, probably was a smart move by UH coach k that he took. He took that right out of the discussion will it be Chris or will it be Darren by starting Jay Kidd And it was really a brilliant move. And I think Jay quite possibly my favorite stat of the entire Olympic experience. They played eight games in Beijing, the Redeemed Team did.

Jason Kidd started every game. Now we all know he I think he only averaged twelve thirteen minutes. He took seven shots. He took seven shots in eight games and he made six of them. And there's a moment in one of the game games Uh, you know, it was another blowout. He's dribbling down court to get it started. Yet is usual pretty good pace. You know, Jason played,

he got him, he got him gone. You're not that not that uh, you know, Lebron and Kobe needed to be revved up, but Jason got them going in their tempo. He is dribbling up the court. That happened to be a slow moment. They are backed off from him. They were like twenty feet away from him, and you can see Jason just stop and dribble and go, oh shit, I gotta shoot this, you know, and he uh and he drains it and uh, boy talked about somebody knowing

their role. That really uh, that really knocked me out. Seven shots over eight games for a starter. And the amazing thing is he developed into a more than decent three point shooter. In fact, he's in the top ten all time and three point shots made, which is one of the more remarkable adjustments. I would put that up there with Karl Malone becoming a great free throw shooter after he was abysmal at the line when he first got into the league. But Jason Kidd developed and it

really starts. I'd say if you look at the split after this, uh, this time period in two thousand and eight, with with this team, but sensing where the league was going, he needed to become a better three point shooter, and so he winds up. By the time he retired, he was at top ten in the history of the league and made three pointers. Kid was just such a smart player.

I mean, we've used this on and on about this team, Lebron's basketball, Like you, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd is right up there, and you talk about somebody who knew exactly and remember when we first started talking about him, he was surprised when Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather, asked him to be on this team. And you talk about somebody that from moment one knew his role. It was Jason Kidd.

My job was to you know, pick up, you know, set the tone and set the table for us defensively, um by picking up and getting guys to come up with me, um and understand that that was going to be one of our strengths is that, you know, steal the ball, create turnovers, playing the open court, and have fun doing it. And then I would go sit on the bench and uh and let the younger legs take over.

And my job again was to, you know, on the bench, you know, make sure that we cheered for one another, because it's easy when it's forty to eighty to just sit there and start looking in the stands. But I thought the guys did a great job for cheering for one another, and uh, I was again responsible to make sure that guys were doing that. Meanwhile, the opposite of

Jason Kidd's role was Dwayne Wade. Instead of starting and facilitating for Kobe and Lebron, Wade plays on the second unit, where he had the freedom and even the mission to be the focal point with those two stars out. And you could argue that the second unit was what really said apart Team USA and most of these games because many of these countries had multiple NBA players and their starting lineup, the Redeemed team had multiple NBA All Stars

coming off the bench. And that came up when Carlos to Delfino, who was on the Argentina team, had a conversation with Chris Boss. That Boss told us about Carlos. Delfino's a good friend of mine and a teammate um in Toronto, and he was telling me, He's like, yeah, man, it's cool. You know, we already know it's gonna be

a tough game. But then you guys five guys out and a whole other five comes in and it's Dwayne Oh you damn Chris, Paul Darrenly and damn dude, you know, and we were we were picking up full court, we were pressing, we were playing fast, you know it scos you man. I mean, you see how talented guys were. And I always tell people that was some of the best basketball I've ever seen Dwayne Waite play like. He was incredible, Like I mean, instant right away. He's not

gonna miss too many. He's everywhere on the court. He was incredible that year. And I remember just, you know, just just being happy of having that luxury just to kind of playoff guys, you know, and just to see how really how talented guys are, what their work ethic is and all these things and just to be able to take part in that and have a good summer with it. And Wade actually led the team in scoring in two thousand and eight. Then it was Lebron, then Kobe,

and fourth is Carmelo Anthony. And the more Carmelo played in the Olympics over the years, the more the Olympics seem to bring out the best version of him. There was Hoodie Carmelo, Hoodie Melo, and also Olympic mellow. And when we talked to to Melow, the first thing I asked him about was that phenomenon of Olympic mellow. Just playing with with great players, right and playing you know, being in a great situation and really just being able

to just kind of focus on one thing, right. I mean, everybody bought something different too, the Olympic teams and you know, and and at that point in time, my role was that you know that that stretched for who can who can shoot? Who you know, who who to stress the floor. I mean when you play with guys you know the Klobe's, Lebron and Cps and you know those every those guys just like just get in when you're fit in right,

just get open, somebody somebody going to farm. And of course Carmelo Anthony and Jim Behi I'm an assistant coach on this team, are forever linked because Carmelo led Syracuse to their first national championship under Beehim in two thousand three. Jim's son, Betty Beheim, who had the cues on a pretty nice tournament, run himself in he was born and Jack, I'm wondering if he were born four years later, would

he be named Carmelo. It's quite possible. You know, they do practice at the Carmelo Anthony Center, which I believe. I believe Melo UH parted with three million dollars for that. But when you think of somebody a one year guy, or maybe not even a one year guy, but somebody associated a player associated with an n c A A championship, you know, like one guy, um boy, you'd be harder pressed to find somebody more than UH than Carmelo Anthony

and Syracuse on that n c A championship team. I mean, they had other good players, but he really carried that team and Jim never forgot it and never will. Over the years. You know, I've been pretty close to Jim. We've had a lot of conversations. I wasn't always kind to Carmelo and some of my assessments, uh, do not do that in front of Jim Beheim, off the record, under sodium pentethal whatever. Jim is not saying anything negative about Carmelo Anthony. And you know what, I understand that.

I mean, that guy gave you a championship at a time when you weren't supposed to, uh, when you weren't supposed to win it. And here is Jim talking about his uh, one of his favorite guys. Ever. First of all, he's good in international ball. It's a little different, and he's a good international player because of the way he plays and how he can score, make the three, to pull up, post up whatever. But the thing that's interesting, I had to fight to get Mellow on this team.

That's the one thing I did. They you know, he was not well regarded at that point in time. There was a lot of talk and I had I really talked to Jerry and Mike a long time about Carmelo because I knew he is a perfect Olympic type player, offensive player, and and he showed what's interesting And I always hated the NBA people who wrote about him. He should and he can play with the team. Well he's when he's went Denver in the New York next. He had to take all the shots they had nobody else,

He had to do everything. There was something about Carmelo in this. On the one hand, it's hard to explain. You're right, I mean he was probably, you know, certainly not a top three. You could argue that he wasn't even the fourth best player. But there was something about Carmelo in that lineup of a national team guy that got them, uh started on the wing. Well, Jack, I will say this. I mean he was a guy. You know,

Kobe Lebron Wade. We've seen they were the best players on championship teams, right they they could have that ability. If they hadn't done it yet, they would go on to do it. Carmelo could be the best player on a playoff team, which is not nothing, right, and he had demonstrated that early in Denver, and he got even in Nix into the playoffs one year. So you could have Carmelo, especially at that time, be your main guy and you were going to be a playoff team, no

question about it. And the other thing, you know, I was I was watching the next episode, which we're gonna set up. We're gonna talk about the gold medal game, and there's something else. There's four or five minutes to go, and a lot of times Carmelo was not on the floor because, as you mentioned, that second unit could really d it up, could really mix things up. You know,

he wanted Chris Bosh in there, and there's Carmelo. I'm not saying somebody should get extra credit for being a great teammate, but that's when it came across to me watching Carmelo in those final minutes, uh of the game, and he was just such an integral part of Team USA. When you name when you're gonna name the greatest players, the greatest Team USA players, boy uh, Carmelo Anthony is right near the top. And again he had to do

it in this case with UM. It's not an easy adjustment to go from taking twenty shots a game to maybe now you're only getting up half that and UM, his efficiency, particularly the next Olympic team that's when he was at his best, was actually UM with maybe a better team because you've got you got Kevin Durant there uh in addition to all these other main guys, Carmelo's

shooting percentages just go off the chart in twelve. But he he's effective and pretty efficient here in in two thousand and eight as well, and obviously it was a key component of this championship group, Jack, what are some of the other things that this stand out watching these games? Um? One thing for me, I was a little surprised how much they went into the paint to uh Dwight Howard. They you know, they treated him like a traditional post up center and they throw the ball into him a

little a little surprising to me. But as we go back and remember he was the best center in the NBA at that point. What else is as you watched and rewatched these games from two thousand and eight stood out to you? Well, Um, the number one thing that I wrote down, that's what you said about Lebron That just electric athleticism. I think another thing was we had talked earlier about how comfortable Kobe was Laker Kobe l a Laker, Kobe on the wing and you know, he

just seems like a wing guy. And how many times they found Kobe on the Kobe on the wing and the other thing that struck me as team wise about him. They were, they were they could be prone to go to sleep. Jay, they were you know, they the teams that they played up until Spain um were you know, they didn't get the best competition, but they would let some teams back in. And there was one point it was against uh Angola. For God's sake, you know, Showsky you could look at him once a while on the

bench and he would be boiling at him. And as we're going to see in the Spain game, he throws out a couple of left bonds. But in the third period, they're kind of you know, as to to use a quote from bull Dorm, they're kind of lolly gagging their way through the game against Angola. Showsky puts them in a half court trap, and I was in Wade Lebron

Darren and Chris Paul. I mean, if they would have played that half court trap for like eight minutes, I don't think Angola would have got the ball above above mid court. And another one other thing. Jay was at the game against Greece and I should have been more uh assiduous about checking whether the exact players from the two thousand and six Greece team that beat them in the World Championships. That was such a big deal for this team. They're playing Greece in Beijing, and they were

so aggressive from the beginning of the game. They never let them get into any perimeter pick and roll. And once again it was Lebron. It was especially Lebron, and just to go off on him again doing my research, um, I was surprised at how few times Lebron has been an All NBA defensive player. Was I missing something there? He he you go back to two thousand thirteen, he was a second team All NBA offensive guy. Did I miss something? Isn't he a great defensive player or doesn't

get recognized or am I missing something? He was and he was at that point, especially the peak of his defensive ability in Miami. I think Eric Spoelstra, the Miami he coach, used to calm one through five because you can put Lebron defensively on any position from the point

guard to the center. And he was a key part of that team's defense, especially as they started going smaller and didn't have traditional I remember they had Joel Anthony as a traditional big man at the beginning and then get away from that in part because you can get away with that with Lebron's thanks to Lebron's ability to guard so many people. So you you had that then. But then as he goes back to Cleveland and then especially by the time he gets to l A with

the Lakers, you could see him taking times. Count the number of times you see him dive on the floor during the regular season or even his trademark chased down blocks during the regular seats, and you'd stop seeing that. So it was the right strategy. He's conserving his energy for the playoffs. But as you know, Jack, the way and the time NBA players conservat their energies on defense. So by conserving energy throughout the regular season, Lebron's ranking

in his status as a defensive player dwindled. But he can still bring it out when he wants to. He just doesn't choose to do it as much. Yeah, I guess he was never He wasn't that Kobe Jordan's lockdown guy. He wasn't locking down the opposing to guard or switching off on the point guard. He makes a play by the way during the Olympics. Uh, I think it's you know, I've lost track it might have been in the Grease game where he makes a He just catches a layup

with both hands without goaltending. Now, it didn't come from Kobe Bryant. It came from a smaller player. But Lebron chases it down, jumps up in the air and catches the ball with two hands, and it wasn't even close to a uh wasn't even close to a goalten. A final moment though, this could have been this in my top five Olympic moments. Second quarter of the Germany game against Germany. My god, what an atrocious team that was. Dirk Nowitzki couldn't have gotten out of Beijing fast enough.

The US beat them a hundred and six to fifty seven. I mean they should have used debtl of shrimp, you know, somewhere. Anyway, in the second quarter, Kobe gets and by this time they're they're gone. You know, this is nothing. We were just fooling around like bird. Once in a while, I used to I think I'll shoot left handed the rest of the game. You know what, let me just shoot

some left hand a shot. Kobe gets a no look pass from Kid, comes across the lane and says, what the hell does like a classic hook shot, I mean a real not a jump hook. You know, he wasn't facing the basket. He did that kind of Maybe Joe Jellybean Bryant had done one thirty five years earlier. I don't know, But can you honestly remember beside Kareem and not counting, you know, Kevin Garnett jump hook or something like that. Can you think of anybody doing a or

the magic Johnson baby baby sky hook? Can you think of a hook shot somebody did? I can think literally of one Jack and it was in two thousand. I'm on the road with the Lakers and they're playing in Milwaukee and Ray Allen shoots a hook shot in the lid the They're so intimidated. The Milwaukee Bucks is so intimidated by Shack. This is at his ferocious best. This is Shack's envy PCs and this is when he's fully committed on defense, and the Bucks just wanted no part

of him. And Ray Allen all time great jump shooters, still right now the career leader in three point shots made. He goes into the lane. Most guys were just dribbling in and dribbling out as soon as they saw Shack. Ray Allen, of all people, goes into the lane and shoots a hook shot. I'll never forget, Jack, I asked, did it go in? Of course, Helen doesn't. Kobe went in. I didn't make this point. Kobe went in, by the way,

Kobe Kobe cook shop winning. He could have made more if he had wanted to take more, but he just didn't want to. But Ray Allen takes one and misses it. And after the game, I'm in the Milwaukee locker room and I said, I go to Sam Counsel with my favorite people in the NB. Said Sam, you guys, Uh, I mean Ray Allen shooting the hook shots and you guys didn't seem to want to take a lot of shots in the paint. What's up with the Sam goes see it? They got a second in, motherfucker, Sam Cosell.

But besides that, uh, you know, I don't I don't have much else from the games until we get to Spain. We're gonna deconstruct that Spain game. And I wondered, how you know I'm betting Coach k still spent a lot of uh freaking time there in the film room. Yeah, Jack, I mean they win their games by an average score of a hundred and six and seventy eight, and yet coach k is still studying game tape like a madman.

And let's just say that didn't fit in with Jim Beheim's idea of how they should be spending their time in Beijing. Well, I would go out all day. My kids were there, Mike would sleep all day. We would play the game at nine o'clock, get back at eleven, one o'clock we start watching take So now it's four in the morning. I've been up since seven. I felt I went on the floor. I never did that, right on the floor. They wanted to give me a seatbelt. Jim could sleep, though. I can tell you that that

there was storing during the year. I was doing a book with him. Um he had one thing and the first first day we were doing it, they were going to play a game or something. I said, well, I'll come over in the morning. We'll do some stuff. No, I said, well, what are you doing? He goes, I just sleep today of the game. That's what I do. I don't want to see you, don't come over. That's

what I do. But you know, it's surprising that Beheim could go anywhere by the way, given how restrictive things were uh in Beijing, and the person I had to deal with it the most was Craig Miller, who was USA Basketball's chief communications officer, and he had been in charge of the program, as we said before, he had done that job before the Dream Team, And here he is describing being in Beijing in two thousand eight. Yeah, I think Beijing, it was really the restrictive government, um.

And treatment of the non mainstream as you will. Pollution was certainly m a concern, but if you remember, Beijing shut down kind of its industrial areas and the weather actually during the Olympics was beautiful and it was blue skies, you know, and not at all like it it what it was when I went for some some site reviews and some set up meetings. UM. But I think the primary one of two in two thousand and eight, it was really the the government, uh, and it's uh controlling

factor and in fact that was the case. It's the only Olympics where I was told one rooms we would have media interviews in at the hotel. It was you know, it's it's really the first home. It was the first Olympics where I had to supply twenty four hours in advance, a list of media that would be coming to do interviews,

and they would approve it. So like if the USA Today or Sports Illustrated wanted to come and do an interview with d Way, I'd have to put him on the list, have it in twenty four hours in advance, and the government would review it. I'll prove it, and then they would tell me that I would use meeting room see and uh, you know we always joked that was so they could hear the whole interview room. Um, firsthand, you're listening to Kobe Lebron and of a deem team.

We'll be back after this. But I guess the good thing about the government being so restrictive and controlling every aspect of what went on in China and in Beijing during those Olympics was that they were so restrictive they could even control the smog. They limited the travel and the access and so the the air pollution went down. The same thing happened in l A in eighty four. Jack I was living in l A. Peter uberof controlled the weather. But what they did was well, first of all,

they scared so many people off. The people fled the city. And then they had they had the companies that worked out that had their offices downtown. They had him stagger their work schedules, so you just didn't have as many cars on the road, uh, polluting the the atmosphere. And Jack, those are two the most glorious weeks in the history of Los Angeles. The weather was great, there was no smog, and there was no traffic. It was great. Um, let's

go back to two thousand and eight. Let's discuss the players that we haven't talked to or talked about over the course of this podcast. Uh, running down real quick, Carlos Boozer. He was a player that you could find then in two thousand and eight that you wouldn't really see too much in today's NBA. And he was a six ft nine power player, not a stretch four. He made one three pointer in fourteen at hemps in his career,

and you had it was a transition. So at that time, Jack, you had guys like Richard Lewis six nine, six ten, guy who sat a lot of three pointers, but that was still more of a novelty than the norm. But but he was a power guy. Yeah, And I just I loved I loved Carlos Boozer's game, but I do wonder, you know, you got into that, I'm back to the

basket guy. He had probably played there from you know, he played that Wayne college, and you just wonder if he would have become, you know, something really really special, if he would have got a face up game. But you know that's twenty hid sight or is you know that that's what that is. But I always thought maybe he limited himself a little bit and he was not able to find many minutes on this team. And another guy who struggled to get playing time was Tayshaun Prince Um.

Now he was a defensive force arms had just went on forever. It's funny how many guys, when you think of their their highlight, it's defensive And I don't know. Lebron had that amazing blocking Game seven to win the championship for Cleveland. But there's still plenty of highlights for le Bron that we think of Tassan Prince I would say the highlight reel consists of one play that that chasdown block that he had against Reggie Miller in the playoffs.

He was a four time All Defensive second Team member, never average fifteen points per game and yet had a long NBA career and found a place onto this team as well. You know, here he is with Lebron and Kobe, and in our interviews with people, you know j he he always came up, you know, he was, oh, man, I remember D'Antoni said it. We don't we're not running the audio. But D'Antoni talked about him, Colangelo talked about him,

Mike Showski talked about him. He you know why, he was just fit into that high i Q type of game. He had one great moment in one of the games he made a stepped in the passing lane. Uh, you know, made a great one handed uh tomahawk dunk. But there you can't play twelve guys, I mean nine, I would say, right, J. Nine is kind of your limit on on any kind of team. And that's just the way that it was. And I'm not saying Taishawn could could should have got

more minutes, but he probably he certainly could have. The way he fit in, it was good at least to have the Pistons represented in this era. And of course that is a major glare of the Dream Team in ninety two was that Isaiah Thomas and his two championships, and the Pistons two championships weren't represented. So at least Taishan helps remind you when you go back and see this of what the Pistons meant to that league, and remember that group was a game away from being two

time champions. For seed, Wallace doesn't commit the unpardonable sin leaving Robert big shot. I could still hear people screaming, don't leave him. Can't leave big shot Robert ry alone at a big moment in a playoff game, and that's what he did to go double manager Nobli Uh. If not for that, and even despite that, they still took that series of seven games came within a game of beating the Spurs, but the Spurs win Game seven at home in two thousand five, they would have been back

to back champions. But even after that, the Miami Heat still had to go through the Pistons UH to get to the championship. In two thousand and six, Lebron James had to go through them to get to the finals in two thousand and seven, the Celtics had to go through them in the conference finals to get to their championship. In two thousand and eight. So let's not forget the Pistons, and through Tashaun Prince, we can give them a little shout out in the context of this redeemed team. Uh,

Michael read another player on that team an outside shooter. Uh, it's funny we think of him as an outside shooter. But he was only in the top ten of three point shooting percentage twice and the last time was in two thousand three, so long before this team. But they're just weren't that many shooters around, American shooters around in the league at that time. And then, sadly, he tore up his left knee in January two thousand nine, and then he retour those same ligaments a year and he

was basically done. And we really don't think or talk about him that much. But at a time when you needed a guy to shoot, now Jack, you have everyone is expected to be able to shoot from every position. Nikolayoki is expected to shoot three pointers. Your point guards are expected to shoot three pointers. But at that time and for that team, you needed a three point specialist. And the problem for putting together Olympic basketball teams for America is a lot of the best shooters weren't American

back then. Pages Toyakovitch and Hado Turkolu. Patio was one of three players who made more than two hundred three pointers that season in two thousand and eight, um so three. He was one third of that two hundred club. In twenty nineteen, which was the last time we had a full NBA season, twelve players made more than two hundred and so you just have more shooting available. You have more players who can shoot, more Americans who can shoot three pointers. But Michael Red was really a relic from

that era and that's how he wand up on that team. Yeah, there was always that was a big fear. I remember the Dream Team organization. That was the fear that it's a forty minute game. Oh we started missing we And that's why Chris Mullen, who in many ways you know, hadn't one I'm trying to think who I would compare him to on the on the Redeemed team, Uh, you know,

was an established player but hadn't won a championship. But I as as I recall it, Chris Mullen was one of, like Chuck Daly, first five guys that he wanted after Jordan Pippo because he was a shooter. And as it turns out, you know, uh, Kobe was such a good probably didn't need him. But you know, Michael Read it just it just speaks to the time, Jay. There are many metrics about how the game has changed. And I've

talked endlessly about the Phoenix Suns. You know, my guys from early in the Auts revolutionizing the league with the number of three point attempts, and now they would be near the bottom. Michael Read known, as you said, as a h you know, an outside shooter with range. He I looked us up, he would average about in his most three point taking season, he didn't even average six threes a game. He was around five four and a half. And right now that would put him about in the

top sixty of three point shooters in the NBA. And that's just an example of, you know, how the game, how much the game has changed. So with this two thousand and eight teen though, Kobe says, I'll handle that, Michael Read, your services aren't needed. Kobe average six and a half three point attempts per game in only twenty three minutes. So he led the Redeemed team with fifty three three point attempts made seventeen percentage um in eight games,

got a fifty three points. So Kobe decided he would take on the three point shooting duties. So that's our sort of final observations on this team is a look at their run through pool play and and even uh uh the metal Round. As we got into that, and as we'll find out in our next episode, things got a lot tighter after all that cruising and fun that they had and sleeping that Jim Beeheim got in. Uh,

things were allowed to get a lot more serious. In the gold medal game against Being Well, there was definitely a lot of russure. We knew that was not gonna be easy. Uh. You know, they always teamed uh you know, these things like their best right in the best moments. The things I remember is that you couldn't shake them. You know, every time you get up like five or six points, you think, okay, now you can bring it over.

And they did a big three or or hit a couple of big three in a row, back back to where we're scary State scary the whole game. The only thing that was going through my mind was like, damn, we can't stop these guys. You know what I mean, we were. It was a spirited effort by both teams. Who would they lean on to save the day. We'll have all that more in the next episode of Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team. For now, I'm Jane and I'm Jack McCallum. Thanks for listening. The Dream Team Tapes

Season two. Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever you get your podcasts. This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j A. Dande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances for Diversion podcast and Sean's High Toned for I

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