The Draft Show: Kicking It Off

Eighty six combined years of draft coverage within seven panelists that you just heard for the twenty twenty twenty twenty one Cowboys Draft Show. It's one hundred and forty six days out, but we're talking some Cowboys draft. Welcome in to the first episode of the twenty twenty one Dallas Cowboys Draft Show. Kyle Yeoman's driving the bus this year as I did last year. But man, I am a privileged to be a part of such a talented group of panelists and we're starting things off with the right way.

Let's just say that by welcoming back. Mister Brian brought us back to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Bracton Draft Show. You see David Helmet up in the top right hand corner. Then we've got Bucky Brooks also making his return. But Brian, first off, glad to have you back full time here on the Draft Show. It's a privilege for me. Somebody who's listening to you for years, has gotten to work with you a little bit. But now hey, you're back, and you're back for good. Well, thank you, and it's

great to be back with you guys. The Draft Show is such a big part of what my career has been, you know, the years of scouting and then now in media, and I'm probably more known for the Draft Show than i am anything else. So it's great to be with you guys, and excited about the opportunity to start this journey. It's really it's exciting because I mean, Dave, you and I went through this journey last year and what was a crazy twenty twenty draft process. It gets even crazier

now that it's twenty twenty one. But I know you and I have had these conversations before, but it's just not the same without Brian, and now that he's back, we get an opportunity to add not only Brian but Dane back into the full Dame Brugler will join us later on Bucky Brooks as well, and I couldn't be

more excited. I know you're pumped about it, though I don't know what's crazier, you know, doing like you know, the pandemic hit in the middle of it last year, so you kind of had to adapt on the fly. But now we're just doing the whole thing pandemic style. We're starting in December, which, like we've always joked about it, but we're actually doing it, which is kind of insane. But I love it. And yeah, I got my guy double be back on the show, so I couldn't be happier.

Actually two double bees because Bucky's along for the ride this time too. I mean, I'm I'm beside myself. I'm pumped. Let's do it. Bucky. How you've been down there and you're in the bottom right hand corner. But hey, we are glad to have you back. We had you on for the Senior Bowl last year, a little bit for the Combine as well. Glad to have you full time on the Draft Show this year. Yeah, I'm really excited.

And since we're Thorne Verbibal case that Brian brought us, I would like to go back and talk about him because he's one of the guys that really started me on my journey as a scout. The conversations we used to have back in Green Bay when I was a player and he was working in the front office kind of started my thirst forward the personnel side. So it really is back. I'm really glad to be on this show with him because he really played a big part

in why I decided to go the personnel rout. Well, guys, I could just retire now, so I see it. It's been great to be with everybody. You guys got this thing handled. Kyle, you do great. David, you're really good. Listen, Buckie, I couldn't have touched any better. So you guys have a good time. Now. Hey, now that we spent the last five minutes kissing your butt, I'll just throw in your line about being a failed scout and yeah, there you go back to the regular super Bowl. Yeah, there

you go. That's one way to end that conversation from by flashing that super Bowl, right. But I had no idea. I didn't know that you guys were back in Green Bay together, and now you're on the show together. I

like that fold of things. So talk about that relationship a little bit, Brian, and how you guys met in terms of you and Bucky and how that kind of blossomed, like Bucky just talked about, Yeah, Bucky has always had a really when he was playing for US and we got him out of North Carolina, and when he was playing for US, Bucky always had a really good eye

for evaluating other players. And so I would always talk to Bucky about players in the ACC, and Bucky had a really good thought about these guys and who could be a really good player and who to look at, who not to look at, and he just really kind of took a natural liking to it. So yeah, I was I was really pleased to help him along that way, and I'm glad he was able to to make it work. That's fun. I like that. Yeah, Bucky, go for it now.

I was saying. It was really cool because those conversations, and I remember distinctly the conversations centered around Drey Bligh and Robert Williams and Brian Simmons and that crew, because the crew that when I left behind in North Carolina, they were really really talented and Vonnie Holiday, who we ended up drafting in Green Bay was one of those guys, and so just having those conversations and Brian being willing to just kind of share insights on the business, it

really made me think about it. And another one of his co workers, John Snyder, actually gave me my start. So a lot of my scouting career centers from my time in Green Bay and the things that I learned from them, and also Ron Wolf, and so I'm really really thankful for all of those experiences. That's awesome along the way. It's crazy how many people meet and how small the scouting world in the NFL world really is

whenever you get down to it. And I'm decided to be along with the ride with you guys, and of course helmet up here. But I kind of want to explain this really quickly for all those draft fans out there. This is how this is going to work. This four right here, it will be on once a week throughout the entirety of the draft process, whenever the Cowboys are out of contention for the playoffs, So once a week

you will get this four. There's another four myself along with Katie, Jeff Cavanaugh, and then the great Dane Brugler, will be another four set, another tandem per se that will be on once a week once the Cowboys are eliminated from playoff contention. Until that point, it'll be alternating.

It'll be one show a week from the Draft Show, and it'll alternate between these two groups back and forth between the Elder Statesmen as I like to call it as who were it with right here with Brian and Bucky and Dave in terms of the three most experienced out of the seven total panelists, and then we've got the Young Buck and then the Young Buck group with Katie and Jeff Cavanaugh and Dane Brugler. They will join us at about eleven forty five and that's when we'll

kick off their side of the show. So seven panelists throughout the Draft Show season full time. I'm pumped about this. Derek Eagleton lots of credit for pulling together really an all star cast. But let's get into this, shall we. Let's talk about one of the craziest draft processes that will ever be in the NFL. I mean, you talk about the twenty twenty draft process. Crazy from just missing a couple pro days here and there and not having that entire look at players the virtual meetings instead of

the thirty day guys. And now you go into twenty twenty one and it's a huge question. But Brian, we're gonna start with you. What is the biggest challenge for front offices in a year like this where really everything is up in the air. Yeah, there are a lot of challenges and it's been very difficult on scouts. And

I know that book. He's talked a lot of his guys around the league and much like myself, and these guys aren't getting to go to these schools and generally from the end of August through say Christmas the first the year, they're going to these schools and talking to these football ops guys, the coaches, the trainers, the scout anybody they could talk to that to kind of talk

about these players or learn about these players. And that's really what's difficult for him right now because what they're doing is they're sitting at home and they're just grinding tape. Nothing wrong with just grinding tape. We all appreciate to be able to evaluate these players, but that there's interactions you have with those those schools. That's how you're able to build that file on these players. And they don't

have that right now. There's a lot of calls, zoom calls, whatever, but those face to face meetings are really when you get the full evaluation of what that player is. You trust your eyes to see what he is as a player. But these, these these men and women that are with them every day are the ones that really fill in the gaps for you. Bucky. Yeah, you know it's oh sorry,

go ahead, Buck. No, No, I think I think b hits it the nail on the head because so much of what you do on the school call is not necessarily just watching tape of meeting everyone around the building. And what happens is, over time you've been going to the school years and years on end, you have a trusted confident that you can get the scoop on a player.

And so when the liaison may be giving you kind of like the blanket statement and assessment, there's someone else that you can go to to really get the goods on who a player is football character wise and then

really his real character. And so it is difficult now that you're not able to go and get around those players, those people, and you're also not able to watch these guys on the practice field, because a lot of what you do is you evaluate how they are with their teammates, how they are in line, Are they first in drills, are they last indrials? Are their high effort guy when it comes to practice, or do they just kind of

dog it. You need all of that information because you want to bring that back when you're building the profile. So when you do make the presentation to the decision makers, they know exactly what they're bringing into the building. I was I was just gonna throw in there real quick, which Brian, you know this working at the Star for as long as you did. The scouting office is fifty feet away from where we work, and so I mean you get you get to know these guys pretty well.

And during this season, i've you know, you reach out to these guys to see how it's going, and it doesn't seem like the answer as well. I mean, obviously the NFL is always going to find a way to work around it, but you just pay attention to the nudes. You know. Some schools aren't even letting scouts sit in the press box to watch games, you know, just in the interest of limiting the number of people to the there,

so you can't go on a school call. You like, you can't get face to face time with the players or the coaches that coach them. You can't even like watch the game live depending on the school. It's obviously

not every school, but some of them. And I just I do not envy these guys who are tasked with basically like you have to put together a portfolio on every player in your area, and I just don't know how you're supposed to do that other than watching tape, which that yeah, like Brian said, that's great, but it's it's just one piece of the puzzle, and it seems like these guys don't have the other pieces. So I would be stressed if I was a scout, I guess,

is what I'm trying to say. Do you think, and I kind of want to go back to what Bucky just talked about in terms of seeing practices as well, do you think there is a workaround kind of how Dave was even mentioning of these NFL scouts trying to find a way to watch practice. You got to put together the full pieces to the puzzle, and the early

pieces are those practice times with your collegiate school. So I just want to know if there's any way that you know, maybe teams are combating that that lack of practice film or how they're actually watching some of those guys. Yeah, I think that maybe what we'll see though, is and maybe the top players you could do this with. Maybe if these teams go to bowl games. If we do have the bowl games, it sounds like they're going to

try to have them. Now, maybe you could go to areas where you're not on a campus, but you're on a property, Say you're at the in Orlando, at the Citrus Bowl or something like that, and you're watching teams practice and maybe teams. Teams might even have to work with each other on this too, about what they saw and things like that. You know, scouts are good about sharing information. Your teams don't always want you to do it, but scouts really do have each other's backs when it

comes to some of the stuff. But I have a feeling that if we get to a bowl game situation or playoff situation, that maybe you'll be able to see some scouts attend those practices and kind of get a little bit of an idea if their guys are there, if their guys are even there playing, we might have some guys opt out if they're not in those major games, but at least that might give you a little bit

of a look. You know Bryan's point. I think this is where your relationship with video coordinator as schools could come in and play the years that you love donuts and T shirts and hats and those things. Maybe you can convince them to send you some snippets and some clips of the warmer portion of practice or just of

the drills. I think you have to be very very sourceful doing this that in this part of what scouts are tasked with, UM kind of find a way to figure it out, and so your relationships will really play a big part in your ability to maybe get some form of practice footage so you can look and evaluate how they interact with the teammates, so how they move around on the turf. David, I mean, I think they've

covered it pretty well. I'd like, again, I'm stressed out by by the incomplete picture that you're going to have of these guys. I'm ore. You know, I wanted to bring this to the show. I know we're you know we're gonna talk about you know, it's we're gonna talk about the opt outs. But I can't help but notice our colleague Dane, who's going to be here in a half hour. I believe he mocked Caleb Varley, the Virginia Tech cornerback to the Cowboys, that dude hasn't played a

snaff all year, and that that freaks me out. I'm sure, I'm sure he's a hell of a player. I have a full disclosure. I haven't watched his twenty nineteen tape. I'm sure it's pretty good, but that's a long time to not be getting reps, and not only you know, not only game reps, but as an opt out, he's not he's not practicing, he's not with his program, he's not doing that every day. So have fun projecting what

that that's supposed to be. It freaks me out. Yeah, that's why you take Patrick certain it is what you do. All right, Hey, we got it up. Show over. I don't I don't want to talk. I don't want to talk trash on a guy that opts out because I

completely understand the boat that he's in. Ye, but if you're give if you're telling me that you know, if the tags are touching, Brian, if the tags are touching or if they're even remotely close, to give me the guy that spent the year playing football over the guy that didn't. I mean, am I crazy for thinking that way? I don't think so. UM. I think Kevin Colbert has

talked about this for the Stealers. He said that, as Brian would talk about, if the tags are touching, if it's close, the ties want to go to the guy that you saw play most recently, because you know exactly what you're getting. The guy has been tucked away, working in the shadows. The unknown scares you, and a lot about the draft is mitigating and minimizing griss, and what you don't know is scary. So I would rather even if it's a slightly lesser player. But I've seen him,

and I know exactly what I'm getting. I'm more likely to league on that player than the player that has completely disappeared for two hundred sixty five days and I have no idea what he's done throughout the process. Well, and even you talk about the notables, you talk about Jamar Chase, Micah Parsons, kayleb Farley, who Dave just mentioned Pinnay solely, even a guy who's mocked right now in the top three overall picks at offensive tackle out of Oregon.

Those are four guys, and that's just a scratch of the surface in terms of all of the opt outs if you want to go down the list of first round talents. But there's a lot of guys that you don't see feet on the ground in terms of what they're doing in twenty twenty. Guys like that kind of

scare me too. I'm right there with you. But Brian, from a front office standpoint, is it is it something that they're really having to dive into the film or is this conversations that need to be had with that player in order for them to not be scared by these opt outs? Yeah, that's I mean, I think that Bucky painted a picture for you about your relationships that you have with with the with the coaches, the members of the the you know, the staff there at these colleges.

You know, if you really trust a guy and sometimes these guys, if you have that relationship, he could paint a picture or she could paint a picture for you of this player. Is reminds me of this guy, or he reminds me of this guy, And you could kind of then in your mind say Okay, I've seen this guy play before, and that's really how Jerry Jones operates there in that in that war room. You tell Jerry Jones, this player reminds me of somebody he's already seen that

clicks something in his head. So I know for the Cowboys, that's the way it's gonna work. But yeah, you have to be able to have a relationship and trust that that person is telling you that. Hey, Will, this kid wasn't with us. Saw him every day in our weight room, saw him every day around the building. He's a hard working kid. I mean, you just got to trust a lot of people that are going to give you the

right information so you can make this important decision. Yeah, it's so important to have those relationships, and it will extend beyond just the guys on the school call. I think now with the explosion of the boutique training and where guys are going to work out, your ability to know some of these private trainers and to have real open and honest discussions with these guys. Hey, is this guy really a worker? If the workout starts at eight o'clock,

what time is he showing up? Is he walking right in at eight o'clock is he walking in an hour before those things? Trying to assess how hard has he been working, what does he look like physically? Can you send me some stuff? Can I FaceTime and just kind of watch him work out and move? I mean, now more than ever, you're going to have to be so resourceful when it comes to trying to get the information

as it relates to the opt outs. You're gonna have to hopefully, if you've been working in an area, you've been tracking these guys since their freshman year. So when I would go to LSU and Jamal Adams was there because I knew it from high school, he would consistently tell me, Hey, what about this guy? What about that guy?

What do you think? And as they grow through it, you now have a feel for how this guy is and how he's worked, and so you have a maybe a longer resume, but it's still a very I mean, it's a difficult challenge, and without being able to go one on one with these guys, it's very, very difficult to make a decision of what you really liked them. Bookie makes another really good point here, and I won't say that very often because we're gonna argue about players

here one of these days. So I'm gonna get my niceties and what I can do. But I think I think that where book he makes a point he talks about the workouts, these personal trainers and stuff like that. That might be another avenue for scouts to go see these players actually work out. You know, that might be some of these some of these places might welcome you in at four or five teams at a time. Hey,

come watch our workouts. We'll set up some drills. We'll let you watch him do three cones and pedal drills and stuff like that. So that might be a way for the scouts to kind of get around some of these be able to put eyes on these players and how they're moving around to match it with their tape. Davis, that's just where I Oh, sorry, Kyle, you go for it.

I just now thought of this. I didn't do this on purpose, but I see our guy, see my man, Joe Burrow behind me on my set here, And I mean I'm not just bringing him up because he's the best, but I mean it's an interesting case. You think back to last year, Like if Joe Burrow doesn't have a twenty nineteen season, or an incomplete twenty nineteen season, he's he's probably a Day three draft pick. He goes number

one overall instead. So on the flip side, you know, we know about Michael Parsons, we know about you know, we know about Jamar Chase. We know about these guys.

What about what about the Joe Burrows who are fringe guys or Day three guys who like you could be like, is this a draft where you could see way more diamonds in the rough because there are so many players that maybe haven't had a chance to make that jump, you know what I mean, Like you could be drafting a guy in the fourth round who would have been a second or first round pick in a different year. Am I crazy for thinking that? I mean, I don't

think so. I don't think so. I mean I I think I think it's tough, and I think there's always a little randomness too. When guys are picked, particularly on the third day, things impact why they drafted. Sometimes it's a surplus at a position that moves a guy down.

Sometimes there's injuries, Sometimes there's character stuff that we don't know about on the on the on the side, but I think this year, more than others They're going to be some guys that kind of fall but gold the line, just because you just don't have enough information on them in terms of tape. We haven't seen him at the All Star Game. We haven't put our eyes on him enough to say, you know what, I feel good about him. I'm going to give him this grate because I've seen

enough that I'll stand on the table for him. So yeah, I think some of those guys will fall to little line. I think there's some general managers that are going to run these drafts and put these boards together where the scout they're going to have to trust their scout. They're really going to have to trust their their scouts ability that they general managers know which scouts can really dig.

And there's some teams out there, guys, and you know, Bucky and I have fortunately came from a team where you know, as a scout, you put your you put your name on it because you evaluated the tape and

stuff like that. But there's some teams that have guys that just go out and gather information, you know, and then somebody else makes the call on whether to set the board or not, or how to set the board, and so that could be a little bit difficult because if you're a scouting department that's based on information gatherers, you're going to be in a little bit of a bind now when it comes to that, because now you're really you're not going to have enough eyes on these players,

and it's up to these general managers. And if I'm an owner, I'm looking at my general managers saying, Okay, what do you gut on this guy? What's you're feeling on this guy? You know? And I think that's where owners need to be a little bit more understanding. But we'll see how it all plays out. I think there will be a separation in teams, and Brian and I have talked about this and nauseum. There's a difference between the teams that have really evaluators and teams that have

information gatherers on their scouting staffs. And what you will see in these drafts like we saw last year's draft and this year's draft, those teams will separate themselves from the others because they have guys that understand exactly what they're looking for. They can look at the tape, that can make solid assessments, and they can project actually more times than not power players going to play at the next level. Those guys, those teams was shine in this process.

This pandemic won't bother them all because they're confident that they have enough guys that can evaluate exactly what players are when they look at the team Lucky. Where do you think the Cowboys fall into that category? Well, I mean, I think I think they're an evaluation team. I think with Will Clay and those guys like I think they do a women play. They do a really good job of looking at players and being able to project it.

The only thing that I've ever had an issue with the Cowboys has been their tendency to kind of go towards the small school guy as opposed to the big school guy. They used to be a big thing for them the lower rounds. It was all small school directional schools that were coming in, and I'm more towards give me big school. I've seen them playing big games. I

knew exactly what they are. They may not be the best, but at least I know from a floor standpoint where there are I'm more likely to gamble on what a guy's how floor is as opposed to he he could be his selling as this so that's the thing. It's changed, but it used to be the Cowboys were into the smaller schools. Yeah, I agree with Bucky on that. I think the thing with the Cowboys, the way I would

evaluate them, is that you've got some guys. You've got some crusty guys like me that have been out there on the road for a while. You know, guys like Bucky. You know, not that Bucky's pull, but he's been out there on the road and seeing all this. So what you have is those those crusty guys though, I mean, they know, they know they have to go out there, they know they have to look at the tape, they

know they have to make a call. The one thing the Cowboys do is, and I don't know if every team does this, but the Cowboys are assigned positions to evaluate his cross checkers. So, for example, you know you might have a scout Drew fe a Beionage, which is a national scout. He might do the linebackers, and he might have to be responsible not only for all the national players. He covers the whole area, but then he

has to cover the linebackers as well. So what you're doing is you're basically saying Okay, I trust you as a national scout to handle this. I also trust you to tell me what the best linebackers are in this draft. So if you're responsibly like that on your scouts, you're trusting them to be able to make the evaluations and to build off that too. Pull's favorite line. He's got a few favorite lines. He loves to be boring in interviews,

but will loves to talk about. He basically tells his scouts that you are the general manager of your area. So whatever you know, whether you're Midwest, SEC territory, West Coast, whatever, you evaluate all that and you stack them and and that your input is going to weigh heavily. Obviously they don't make the call at the end of the day, but we expect you to firmly evaluate and be confident what you think of the guys in your area. And so I mean, I think that's you know, it's evaluation

all the way for the Cowboys. Based on what we've gleaned from what they say about their process, it certainly seems like they trust their guys from the top down. Let me tell you this guy, Stephen Jones, will make you uncomfortable a meeting. He really will, I mean, Stephen Jones, You do not just throw stuff up against the wall and hope it sticks and hope that nobody checks your work. Because somebody to your right or your left has probably

checked your work. But that guy's sitting in that chair will say, well, wait, yesterday you told me this, today you're telling me this. So there's a lot of things, a lot of that. You have to have that back and forth right there in order to set your board the right way. That accountability, that communication is huge this year. Go for it, bucket right. No, it is really really true, Dave. You talked about being a general manager of your area.

As an area scout, your responsibility is to know everybody in your area, to know him front and back, and to not only know who's coming out this year, but I need you to know who's coming out in future years. Right, Because if you have been in your area for a while, you've been going to those schools, you've developed relationships, you're very aware of who are the top recruiting guys that are coming in, and you're just monitoring those guys along

the way. And so as you stay entrance and as you kind of build those relationships, you should know him, and you should be able to confidently talk about guys in this class and in future classes, and to be able to make comparisons, solid comparisons, give me visualizations on who this guy is, who does he compare to that we saw him out recently, to be able to talk

about all those things. And you have to do the work because if you don't do the work, it shows up, because over time, it really shows up in the meetings who really knows their area and who really knows those players see And I think I love that whenever you talk about kind of the pre scouting that has to go on for this class, specifically twenty twenty one, it's gonna matter more than it ever has in the past. It's having those scouting looks from earlier seasons and knowing

how guys it performed. And you guys talked about kind of the behind the scenes. Dave talked about how it scares them not seeing guys on the field in twenty twenty. It's going to be tricky. But the better you are at pre scouting some of these players in these prospects coming out of the draft, the more success you're gonna have Whenever April comes around in April twenty nine hits the calendar. It's going to be a tricky draft no matter what, but it also makes it a little extra

tricky for the Dallas Cowboys. We're gonna step aside and take our first break when we come back. The great quarterback question of twenty twenty one. Who's going to be the quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys and should it be a rookie? We'll address that when we come back. You're on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com drafts you There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Very Lux for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Krizal

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Kyle Yeoman's Bucky Brooks, David Hellman, and the triumphant return of Brian brought us to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Glad all three of you guys are with us, and man, you talk about experience among these guys. I mean, Brian, you've covered it since nineteen ninety two covering the draft, Bucky Brooks since two thousand and one, and David Hellman with seven years. This is only year two of me doing it professionally. So I'm just learning along the way.

I learned a lot in that first segment already, and so I'm excited about this. But out of all of those years, don't lump me in with the other two like don't like professional professional scouts who have actually been more rooms. Yeah, don't lump me in with I'm just happy to be here. That's kind of I feel like that's kind of how we all are. We're glad to

have you, David. We're glad to have you. Man. So even through all of those years that I just kind of talked about, and throughout the seven total there are eighty six combined years, there's not going to be a single year out of those years that is as crazy as this one. Specifically about the storylines around the quarterback position. You talk about Trevor Lawrence tanking for Trevor Sunshine right

up at the top of the draft. He's the consensus number one overall pick, seemingly on his way to the Jets. But there's been a bit of controversy around the Dallas Cowboys quarterback as well, and that's Dak Prescott, no contract done at the moment. So who wants to go first on this one? Who wants to break the seal for the draft show this season? In terms of finding a

way to to to address this quarterback issue. Should you draft a quarterback because there's plenty of them at the top of the draft or has Dak Prescott your long term answer and he's going to take up a big piece of that salary cap? Pie, I mean, do y'all want me to do? This? Is Dave? Yeah, go for it. You worked for the team. Yeah, all right. I'll actually I'll I'll stray a little bit and I'll just say this. This is you know, we talk about what do we say?

Investigate and educate, Right, that's our That's been our tagline. Um. If Dak Prescott is fully healthy and is recovered well from his injury, then I think this conversation is acidine. But that's something that the Cowboys need to really get a firm handle on. Um. You know, everything we've heard is that he's doing great and he's ahead of schedule. And I don't want to I do not want to, like suggest asked or create rumors that that's not true.

I have no reason to believe that. But the Cowboys need to make extra sure that that's the case, that they feel one hundred percent confident that he will be able to play quarterback at a high level when he is recovered. Um. And if if that's true, then that this is dumb And I don't want to talk about it, but you know, you get to you get to March, and maybe you don't feel good about it. Then I

think the conversation changes. I have no reason to believe that right now, but it's on the Cowboys to do their due diligence and make sure they're confident in Dak's health. That's that's how I feel. Right you want to go next or so much hesitation, I go ahead, take it back. I can take it. So I think I think the conversations are. I think it's two different conversations. I think the Deck evaluation is different than what the draft is.

Eventually you have to blt them together. I think what you have to do with Deck is you have to compare Deck to a couple of different quarterbacks. So as classmates, Carson Winson, Jared Golf, where does Dak Prescott stack up with those guys? Right now? If you go to LA where I'm where I'm at in Philadelphia, they're not pleased with their quarterbacks, but their quarterback contract is an albatross around the franchise because you're talking about thirty two to

thirty million dollars annually. Now, if you go the next draft class and you think about Pat Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Where does Dak Prescott fit. Is he more in the Deshaun Watson Pat Mahomes category or is he more in the Jared Golf Carson Wentz category. Because if you feel like he's Deshaun Watson and the numbers would say that he's more in that ring, well then you pay you pay him and you move on and you build a

team around him. But if you have any hesitancy, we've seen that championship teams are built with a rookie quarterback or a quarterback only Ricky Deal and all of the supporting pieces, and so a lot of it depends on how do you view number four? Bucky? Are you trying to fire Dak? That's what I unds like. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to fire Dak. But I think it's a conversation. I say this.

I think this year has been the best thing for him in terms of the evaluation, because for so long everyone was like he's propped up by everything around him. Well now we've seen him removed and the house of cards are falling down, and so I think that has helped in terms of he's a franchise quarterback who can play at a high level. He's put up big numbers, and then when you look at his draft Mace Carson Wentzon,

Jared Golf. If we were playing in the park today we had to pick one of those, I'm picking Dak Prescott all day over those guys, and so I think he's been he's benefited from that. So I would say, yes, I would want to pay him. But now that we've reached a point where we're talking about franchise tags and forty plus million dollars, you just have to be certain. Are you fine with the money being tied up in Dak Zeke and Amari Cooper and Ken we win with

these guys comprising our big three? Yeah? I think that. I mean, I think he both makes some excellent points here. I will say this though, about the whole Dak's situation to me is you know, two years ago, I blame the Cowboys for not getting this done in a timely manner. And the reason why the Philadelphia Eagles signed Carson Wentz to a contract extension because they were worried that at that time that Dak Prescott was going to get forty

million dollars from the Dallas Cowboys. So all now, all of a sudden, the Eagles are looking at their situation like, well, we're stuck with this quarterback right now, that's not playing very well. I think that to me, though, the Cowboys two years ago, yes, should have got this done right now. I think this is more about what's going on with Todd France, the agent. I think this is more about

Dak Prescott. You know, Stephen Jones has come on our show in one oh five three and talked about he is surprised that he's not able to get this deal done. And so with that being said, I feel like though that to me, that's a little bit more on the agent.

But we'll see, we'll see how things play out. Now. Now, if we get to the start of the league year, the new league year, whether it's March twelfth or seventeenth, something like that, and you know they're going to start on this journey of getting a scene if they could get this guy signed, If they don't have him signed by the time you're getting to the draft, when we're into April to into April first of May, I am looking at a quarterback with my top pick. I can't.

I can't trust that things are going to be any different, that something magically is going to happen. You know, this has to get done early. And if it doesn't get done early, the Dallas Cowboys are in this quarterback market as far as evaluating one of these guys at the top of that board, because I don't think you could go any further, you know, and just say, oh, we're gonna be okay, we'll get it done. Now. You haven't got it done for two years now, whether that's your

fault or whether that's the agent's fault. But if there's no progress in March and excuse me, March April, then I am definitely looking at a quarterback. You can. You can all those quarterbacks and linebackers and defensive ends. I'm sorry, I can't look at you. I got to find me

a quarterback, maybe at the top of this board. Hey, Brian, I think a lot of it depends on where the Cowboys finished, because if you finish in what I call the high cotton, if you're picked one or two, I think, regardless of what happens with Dak, I think the quarterback has to be in play because I think there's a separation between Lawrence and Fields and some of the rest of the guys. So if you're if you look if they finished number two, I think the quarterback has to

be in played regardless. You can franchise Dak for another year and then move on. Now, if you're outside of that, then I think it becomes a dicier situation because the quarterbacks that you're talking about, I don't know if they're in the same they're in the same conversation as those other two guys, and we were talking about like franchise guys expected to be able to do it from day one. I don't know, Bucky, there's a real there's a real

mahomes looking guy out there in Provo, Utah. I'm just saying, oh, look, I like I like, I like Zach Wilson, and I think Zach Wilson is a dude. However, I don't And I've talked to people now because it's funny because like this conversation that Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields Zach Wilson trade lance conversation is interesting because everybody that you call had

these guys are stacked in different orders. The assistant is Trevor Lawrence is typically the number one guy, but two through four it is flipped all over the plater champending on what you like and whatever, and so it is very very interesting. I'll say I'm a little jaded. Having known Trevor and Justin since they were in high school. I think they're closer than most people give them credit for.

I think it'd be interesting to see how this plays out, particularly when Trevor gets in the playoff, because last year in the playoff he didn't play well against Ohio State and Clipson versus pressure. I just would like to kind of see him clean that up as we go for before I annoyed him the next coming. So this is

this is a I'm sorry, Kyle, but Brian took. It took one one episode for you to tilt me on my head here because I came into this and I still I think Dak should be the quarterback of the future. I think that's what makes sense. I think it's way more likely that he achieves the success you're looking for than gambling on a guy that's never played pro football. But it's an interesting point that if a deal can't get done by the draft, you can't tag him again. Like,

you cannot tag him in twenty twenty two. It would be astronomically, I mean theoretically you could, but it would be absolutely crippling. And there's no guarantee you get him locked up beyond that. So that's a really interesting point that if Dak does not have a long term deal by April, you're running the risk of passing on a quarterback and not having any long term security with your current quarterback. And that's a hell of a dilemma. And I'll say it again, I think Dak Prescott should be

the long term quarterback of this team. But it's awfully scary to think that you could have a shot at one of these guys and not take him with no guarantee whatsoever that Dak will be here beyond the twenty twenty one season. That is, that is a hell of a dilemma, and I hope the Cowboys act with some urgency when they can talk to Dac again. That seems like, well, they're gonna tag him. They're gonna tag him, and if you can't get a deal done, now I'm looking at

a quarterback. I'm looking at a quarterback needy team. I'm looking at somebody in the middle. There's plenty of teams, the Colts, the Bears, There's all these quarterback needy teams Pittsburgh. There's teams that probably you could trade Dak Prescott too and get a one four. You know, I'm not. I Am not going to sit there and let him hold me up though he but I will say this, I think Dak Prescott is the one that's gonna have to

drive this deal. He's gonna have to be the one that tells Todd France, let's sign, let's get this done. And once that happens, then you could focus on everything else you need for this draft. Yeah, Bryan, I think it's interesting because the leverage flips, right, It's flipped a few times with the tag. It went from the Cowboys to then it went to Dak side. But then the injury I think kind of brings a realization to number four, like, hey man, I need to get this money, I need

to get this done. However, I think it's smart business for the Dallas Cowboys to know that we have all the leverage, we have all the vehicles to use it. We can franchise and still draft a quarterback and then make whatever decision that we need to make going on. We talked about quarterback being the most important position in football. You can never have enough of them, and so if you have those assets, then you do with them what

you need to do. But I think this is one where the Cowboys have to go into it thinking about the quarterback first and foremost, regardless of whether you get done initially, I think the quarterback has to be the emphasis because it can bring back so many different things. Let me tell you this. I know we'll get into this next show. There are some defensive players at the top of that board that scare me to death. You know, if you start talking about picking, you start picking guys

at four or five and six. Yeah. I don't know how comfortable I am doing that right now, but you feel better about like a downer, But I've never been less excited about which it's so early. We don't know this for t right as it sits. Right now, I am not excited about my options outside of the top like three or four players. Yeah, I mean, maybe hopefully we can shed some light on some guys that we're not talking about yet. But it's a scary It's a scary year to be in the top ten. It's very

front heavy. It is a scary year that, yeah, scare you to be up at the top. I think what would be interesting will be if you get the quarterback done. Then I think the offensive tackle conversation comes into play, because as much as we may love tom Ron Smith, I think you have to consider taking an offensive tackle, especially based on what we've seen play out this year. Yeah, I think them wouldnever you have to pour the resources into the offensive line. And I think when I'll tell

you what that that's Bucky. Bucky's right on. Yeah, Whenever you're talking about this quarterback situation, that's really the question that you're asking is whether or not you're gonna you're whether whether or not you're going to take a bigger risk on filling a team around Dak or if you're going to take a risk on not having Dak on the field. Those are the two things. That's the decision that you have to make. And with that being said, it also makes it sound like you're a quarterback away.

Are we really that sure that this Cowboys team is a quarterback away from being contenders? Because, like you talked about about the offensive line, this season hasn't necessarily built any confidence in terms of the roster that has set around the quarterbacks. Bucky, No, but I think what you do is you reset the clock when you take a

young quarterback. So when you take a young quarterback at the top of the board, it gives you a five year run to build up that championship team because there's cost control and cost certainty with a quarterback on a

rookie deal. You now know, Okay, I got the quarterback in place, and if he is what we think he's going to be, less through all assi up the offensive line, make sure we have enough playmakers, let's look at the defense, and let's see if he can kind of steady carry it the first three years until he pops and takes

it over. I think that's why you look at a quarterback just from a cost effects and effecting this standpoint, su're going to be interesting whenever it comes to the Dallas Cowboys and what decision they make at the quarterback spot, because there's a lot of different ways you can go. I mean, Brian talked about timing, Bucky's talking about placement, Dave's talking about personnel. There are so many different factors

that fall into this decision. It's the biggest decision that the Cowboys are gonna make whenever it comes to how the next decade really is going to turn out for this organization. That's how crucial this twenty twenty one draft is going to be for this organization. But guys, we're gonna say goodbye to these three. Dave Hellman, Bucky Brooks and Brian brought us guys. It's great, great to have you back, excited to get things started again, but we're

gonna take a break. When we come back, it's Kat, it's Jeff Cavanaugh, and it's Dane Breuger. The second half of the draft show coming up on the other side of the break, we'll be right back on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Pepeck and Cream Soda. Is he a new combone that's music to my ears? Okay, Doctor Pepper time music to my ears and mouth. New

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America Corporation. Dear, it's nineteen oh eight. Don't you think we should get electricity and stop using candles to see it night? It's just electricity lights up the room fast, It's more reliable than candles blowing out, and people seem to love it nationwide. Well candles, Dear, did you just run into the wall. Have a new candle? Please? Historically switching to new technology is a no brainer. Today it's AT and T five G, fast, reliable, secure, and nationwide.

Switch to AT and T five G. It's not complicated. Five keep requires compatible plant may not be in your areas. He a T dot com slash five G for you for details. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. I don't think guys can hear me? I don't think. I think we're back here on the Dallas Cowboys Draft Show trying to figure some things out whenever it comes to connecting Jeff Cavanaugh to the group, as he is down in the bottom left hand corner. But we will

get Jeff here in a moment. But Dane and Kevin, can you guys hear me? Katie and Dane Brugler, you guys both got me right there? We go perfect, Okay, so let's go ahead and introduce those guys. So we just got rid of David Hellman, Bucky Brooks and Brian brought us. That's the first half of the Draft show. Here's the second half. We've got Dane Brugler from the Athletic. We've got Kevin kat Turner. As always, he returns for his what what year would this be of you on

the Draft Show? This is your third year? Maybe I think this is your three for me three, So I'm honored to be back. We're bigger than bigger and better than ever this year. It's really exciting. How about that, Dane? Is this true? What is this fourth fifth year on the Draft Show? No more than that? I mean six, seven, six or seven? I mean, yeah, we were part of the original crew back and when we started thirteen, I can't remember. It's been a while, goodness, and Jeff still

trying to figure things out. It's his headset, I think at the moment. But well, we're gonna get into quite a couple of things, and we just kind of went through the generics whenever it came to the first part of this Draft Show and talking with Brian and Bucky and Dave. But I kind of want to get into the nitty gritty and Dane, I know you're probably like six hundred or seven hundred players deep already, and you're scouting of the college football season just right around right.

I mean, you're not to a thousand yet, but you're getting there. So we're gonna get into really the depth of this draft where we're going to be in terms of picking both ways and whether we're trading up or trading down. I want to hear from Captain trade down himself in just a couple of moments. But first off, Dane, whenever you're looking at the Cowboys need, where is some of the depth in this draft and where are they

going to ultimately find some of the value. Whenever it comes to the later parts of it, well, yeah, this is a draft where I don't know that it's you know, it's not. It's one of those drafts where it's not great to be picking top ten unless you need a quarterback. But this is a very deep draft throughout the first round into Day two. I think there's a lot of talent at the offensive tackle position, cornerback, pass rusher, wide receiver, so a few of those positions I think will be

a particular interest to the Cowboys. It's just what are they gonna do if they end up with a top five pick. That's where it gets really interesting. A tradeback makes a ton of sense, and in this draft having quarterback having to be a top heavy quarterback group, that might be a good thing because I don't believe they're taking a quarterback some Cowboys fans believe that's possibility. I still think that Dak Prescott's just got too big of a place in Jerry Jones heart. I just don't see

it happening. But having a top heavy quarterback class could be a good thing if we want to trade back and maybe get some more value, gets more draft capital. Katie, are you on that boat as well where a trade down makes sense at this point? Yeah? You know. The thing that makes me kind of uncomfortable when we start talking about trading down is just the idea of like guaranteeing that the phone rings. And I also get really

uncomfortable as a guy who loves the draft. Sure, you want a better draft pick that goes without saying, but I'm a competitive person who you know, gets mad if I don't win monopoly, right, So I want to win games. So like I understand, like I still want to go win the division, and I understand like a lot of Cowboy fans are like, dude, just lose out get the number four pick. You study a little closer, and you said I might be more passionate about them picking at

thirty five and thirty six instead of fifty. Yeah, than I am about them picking at four nineteen, I might feel better about that player at thirty five and thirty six instead of fifty in comparison to what they're picking at number four or five compared to nineteen. So that's kind of kind of where I always get, realm, I always kind of get get caught in the middle here around this time of year, when you are in a situation where it's like we could win the division, but

we could just lose out. It makes sense. The only the only way I would be fully one percent on board with Team Tank is if you didn't have a quarterback. Yeah, and that's where I think it would make sense. I don't know how much it makes sense this year, but I'm a guy who wants to win, So I said it. If that makes me a bad guy, winning divisions makes me a bad guy, I'm okay with it. Well that's kind of the that's the dilemma that every Cowboys fan is on right now. And I believe we've got the

captain trade down. The one and only Team Tank leader on the bottom left hand corner, Jeff, are you back? Yeah, I'm here, rude captain trade down? Right? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, Okay. I don't know if you were what was that? Well, I couldn't hear, but I heard kat there at the end. So let me just let me just say, oh, no, am I in bad shake. Now we've got you. We can hear you. Oh you're just maybe I can hear you. Yeah, yeah,

Katy should be worried that I'm coming after him. Um. The problem is I can tell you that I'm having trouble hearing Jeff. But for those who are who are listening, Jeff got an incredible bookshelf, but he does have a great background as well, and he is having trouble. We are having trouble hearing hearing Jeff. But here's the thing. So this, since this is the first show, I'm gonna explain this really quickly, and this is a peak behind the curtain. And so Katie and Dane, you're listening through

Jeff in something that's not on air. I'm listening through Jeff on air, and I can hear Jeff just kind of very faintly in the background. So continue Jeff, and I'll kind of relay that information while we deal with some of these technical difficulties. Okay, now I don't hear Jeff at all, all right, So we're gonna move on and see if we can get at Jeff back up

and running. I don't know what's going on with him, but whenever you're talking about trading down and trying to figure out what's going on with this this Cowboys team, Dane. You you you put out a mock draft in your first mock draft. We're gonna get that in coupled moments.

But did you at any point think during your your your look down these draft picks and whoever you ended up going with with the Cowboys, which was Caleb Farley at the fourth overall pick, did you at one point say this is definitely a spot where they would trade down. Whenever it's Trevor Lawrence off the board and Pinney Soool

off the board. I don't think there's exact spot. You have to keep an open mind because you know it's not like you can really pick who calls you to trade up, and you know you're looking at some teams in the early teens right now. Of course we don't know the exact draft order, but you're talking about Chicago Bears. Uh.

San Francisco forty nine ers, New England Patriots. Uh. You know, we'll see what happens with Atlanta, with Carolina, there are plenty of teams this year that could realistically go up for a quarterback, so you know, and you don't really have the luxury of picking who's gonna call, who's gonna have the best offer, So I think you have to have you have to keep it open mind. I think they could be in a situation where they could trade back and get the second best tackle, which in my opinions,

where Seawan Slater out of Northwestern. He's a terrific talent who opted out this season, but I think he's a left tackle in the league, even though he's gonna get killed because it doesn't have the exact length that you want. You could trade back, and like I said, this is a pretty decent cornerback group J C. Horne out of South Carolina, Darien Kendrick at a Clemson if you wanted

to go the cornerback route. They are in a position where they could trade back, and I still think they'd be an excellent situation, regardless if it's trade back to nine or trade back to fourteen. So with these guys that you're mentioning here, Dane, I mean, of course, whenever it comes to the overall prospect. Sure that you're gonna be fine, no matter if you're through nine to eighteen nineteen. Even if you win the division, you would be at nineteen.

But Katie, you're talking about winning the division. If you're looking at draft picks, wouldn't you rather have options than maybe even just winning the division and picking in the late teens early twenties. Yeah, give me, no, give me

the options. So look again, if everything's equal, I want the higher draft pick, of course, right But I just think realistically, the way this thing's going with a Bengals team next week on the schedule, and you're gonna play the Giants and the Eagles down the stretch, teams that you can beat, even though things do look super cloudy right now for the Cowboys, you can beat those teams. I just think it's realistic. I think right now we're talking about a team could be picking fourth or nineteenth,

and we're talking about trade doowns. They can be picking tenth. Quite frankly, I don't know how well this team is. This team gonna go compete against the Bengals, They're gonna beat the Bengals if they go compete to their highest level against the Bengals, They're gonna move up a little bit. I think probably the most realistic possibility is winning a game or two and not winning the division and you're kind of stuck there at nine or eight or ten

or whatever. But more than anything, look, you got all this time you're running through these players. You're gonna be taking deep dives at these players, Senior Bowl Comby. There's so there's a long distance to go here. The number of options for this team, it's really it's really good. Like that's that's a great thing they have. And if negotiating,

you know, is something that they want to do. You know, there's so much that has to play out with Dak when you start looking out there, and there's a lot that has to play out. So like the options are there. I think the one thing that is like a known thing because there's I do think you have this big question mark in terms of options and what direction you go. One thing that we all know is that the defense needs help. Ye and hey, I'm a guy who needs

to help this offensive line. I support helping out the offensive line, especially when you're not getting out of that Zeke contract. Zeke's gonna need open holes to run through. That's not going away. He's on your roster next year. I want to help that offense out, but that offensive line out. But but defense is where the focus goes.

And I know for me, you know, watching these players, my focus is immediately grabating towards the cornerbacks and kind of really focusing in on that and things like that early on. But you know, as we've branched out and move forward, you sit there and go man at offensive line depth, offensive tackle depth is really interesting. I do I have to take Pennay soool if he's there at four? No, I don't think you do. I think there's enough names now where if I'm picking at thirty seventh in the

second round, maybe I can get a tackle there. There's gonna be a lot of tackles that go in the first round. It'll be interesting as we continue to watch film and soaking this information, where does the cutoff go to where you're comfortable? Is like is this guy in this tier as this guy in this tier. That's where I think that the draft gets really interesting. Is that debate that the Cowboys are going to have internally, like

at what point do they attack the offensive line? Because I don't know how they feel about Tyrn moving forward, contracts on the books or whatever, but I think we know what happens when Tyron's out. So they're gonna have these really big, heated internal debates. And that's part of what makes it fun, is you know, Bounce, I've been watching film with Jeff and broad Us and sometimes with Dane for all these years, and the most fun part of it is disagreeing on players and not for the

sake of argument, just for the sake of more perspectives. Yeah, you know, so that's what kind of makes it makes it fun. And we're here man draft season, that's rock It' it fantastic. I mean, you talk about different perspectives, We've got seven different perspectives on the panel. Throughout the course of this show and into the spring and the draft process. We're gonna step aside. We're gonna see if we can get our seventh perspective and Jeff cavanall hooked up and

ready to go. We're gonna come back. When we come back, though, we're gonna talk about Danes mock draft. Trevor Lawrence goes number one, but who what's the second quarterback? Take it? And was it one of the names that's not justin fields. We'll talk about that next when we return on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Varilux but super sharp vision,

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at night? It's just electricity lights up the room fast. It's more reliable than candles blowing out, and people seem to love it nationwide. Well, candles, dear, did you just run into the wall? I have a new candle please. Historically, switching to new technology is a no brainer. Today it's AT and T five G, fast, reliable, secure and nationwide. Switch to a T and T five G. It's not complicated. Five G requires compatible plant may not be in your area.

See att dot com slash five G for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Fat you're on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. I believe Captain Trade Doown is writing again. He is here and ready to roll. Finally we got it all figured out. Huge credit to Chris Beam in the back trying to figure everything out on the run. And really what was a crazy transition between the first half of the show

and the second half of the show. But now that everybody's here, Dane Brugler, Jeff Capitall, Kevin, Katy Turner, Kyle Yeoman's with you here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Jeff, how you doing, man? I think I'm here? Am I here? Yeah? Am I here on the show? Yeah? You're on the show. It sounds Chris good. Chris is a monster. I'm the worst, but I'm happy to be here. Hi, guys,

did you guys enjoy your first segment? It was good, man, It was good guessing what books you had behind you and your snow globe and the chaos running through your brain as I was talking about winning the division and I know that's the last you want us to do. Oh, we'll see. But that's the thing here. Now. People get the wrong idea about Team Tank Captain trade Down. People get the wrong idea about it. Team Tank is just my preferred result to games. You can't ask your players

not to try. You can't ask your coaches not to try because they get fired. So look, they're supposed to try their best. I just hope that they come up short in every game that they played this year because I think it's best for the long term future. Because I want to hold the top five pick while a whole bunch of teams that are picking in the teams are desperate for a quarterback. Captain trade Down and Team Tank are best friends. You just can't get the wrong

idea about what tank means. It's just what I'm pulling for, not what they should actively try to do. So you want Team Tank to happen so that Captain trade Down has more options. That's what I'm hearing at this point, right, Yeah, Captain trade doown just wants to ride, you know, because this is a year where where I don't I don't want to make a pick in the top five if Piney souls off the board because the Cowboys aren't picking a quarterback. I don't trust any of the corners. I

don't trust any of the pass rushers. So I don't want to pick for the pick's sake. I want to pick because Chicago tamp all these teams that are gonna be picking between ten and sixteen, they might want to dance with you. And so now my goal is to get this team's first pick into the teams. And so look, if that happens because they win the division, so be it.

You'll pick the best player there. But if it happens because somebody comes calling for a better pick that you get to trade down from, well now we're partying because now I'm picking one of the edges in the teams or one of the corners, and the teams. Then at the top of the second and in the middle or back of the second, you're picking an edge or a corner and a safety. I'm just trying to find a bunch of dudes in the top fifty to seventy five picks.

That's the goal, and losing helps you get more of them. Lots of darts for the dartboard. That's one thing that I remember you saying last year over and over again, and it always stuck with me, and I feel like this year it matters even more. With the craziness of twenty twenty one draft and the whole process. I think having more of those darts to throw at the dark border going to ultimately help you out a ton. And that's why, honestly, I'm right there with you. I'm riding

alongside Captain trade Down. I'm on the horse as well in terms of trading down at that point. And Dane even kind of made me feel better about it earlier whenever he was talking about the options that were there for the Cowboys. But Dane, I want to go deeper into your mock draft. Mock Draft one point zero on the Athletic you can go check it out. Dane always does fantastic work on there, and this is something that I kind of want to dissect from the top down.

Whenever it comes to the first round mock. You went through all thirty two teams, but it started with Trevor Lawrence at the top of the draft. No surprise, he's, like I said, at the top of the show, the consensus number one pick. But where it kind of got interesting for me was with that second quarterback taken the number two overall pick. Did Jacksonville was not just in fields? It was instead mister Zack Wilson. Why did you go

with Wilson there? Dane Wilson's been fantastic this year. I think if you're looking at today's NFL and what teams are looking for, you look at you look at Zach Wilson, and he fits the bill. The mobility, the ability to throw off platform inside of structure, outside of structure. He's a naturally accurate quarterback, and obviously all thirty two teams

you're looking for that. I think the main point I want readers to come away with from that mock draft is not that Zack Wilson's absolutely the number two quarterback in this draft. He will be drafted second. That's not the case. What I do want readers to and listeners to come away with is there's no consensus with this quarterback class. After Lawrence. It's hard to find many that don't think Lawrence is number one. But after Lawrence, you've

got Zack Wilson. Justin fields Trey Lance. Those three quarterbacks are duking it out for two, three, and four in this quarter about class. So there's no consensus. Do not be surprised if you know one of those guys, even like a trail Lance where to go that high. It's possible. So let's keep an open mind to the quarterback order. And if you're the Cowboys and you're picking top five and you don't get Penna Suel, that could be a

good thing. And I after watching some Fields, some Wilson, some lances, say I feel the same way, Like I don't know yet, and I'm like blocking out my Saturday, Like, Okay, we got the Ohio State game. Let's watch fields. Let's focus in. Thank god, you know BYU and Coast Coastal Carolina were able to make that work, because that's gonna be exciting to watch. If it's you hate to see it happen for these reasons with Liberty not being able

to play, but like, can't wait for that game. I never thought that I would say I can't wait to see Coastal Carolina play. You know, when I watched that Wilson, I get hypnotized by the offense. That is a fun offense at BYU runs, I have to sit there and go out. That is incredible. I get the vibes. And it's not his fault that sometimes he's playing with his food a little bit. And we kind of saw that from Trevor Lawrence. I think in year two a little bit, I felt like he was kind of playing with his

food a little bit. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and have a yellow ball into double coverage here because I can and I'm okay, it's it's all gonna work out. So I can't wait to watch these guys tomorrow. As we continue to go forward. Trey Lance is the difficult one because I mean, you got ten games or fifteen games or whatever it is, that's it. You got a handful of games and figure it out. And that's gonna take a little more gumption I think to just roll to go ahead and take Trey Lance at number two.

But new GM coming to Jacksonville, so Lord knows what they're gonna be thinking and whatever happens with that organization. But I love the fact that here we are in December and still going. All right, we get these games that matter at here. When it comes to evaluating these quarterbacks, Jeff, what do you think about the quarterfalls Carolina Quick Coastal Carolina.

They're a top fifteen ranked defense. So even though I know on the surface, BYU at Coastal doesn't really sound that exciting, but it's a chance to see Zach Wilson against a top fifteen ranked defense. Coastal's got some defensive dudes on that team, so it is worth checking out. I can promise you scouts to be glued on that game. Yeah, I think. But the quarterbacks, the most important thing, at least from the Cowboys perspective, is a couple of different things.

And the first one would be technically here quarterbacks not under contract. Right, So if the Cowboys had a high up pick and they fell in love with the prospect, could that actually mean something for this organization? I think not. I think they're going to get a dat Prescott deal

done and he's going to be the guy. But the idea that different organizations are valuing these guys in a different order, I think is also a great thing for the Cowboys because it makes your pick more and more valuable because you don't know which team that may not have a shout at these guys. And maybe this is a question for Dane. Where as I'm drawing it out in my head, at least with what the draft order would be today, I think one and two would absolutely

be quarterbacks, right. I think three, where Burrow is absolutely not a quarterback. I don't have the order for me, but Washington at eight, I would think definitely quarterback, and I'm missing one before them where Carolina and Carolina. Yeah, And so if four are going to go in the top eight, it makes your pick really important to teams and the teams If if the guy who doesn't go in the top two is somebody's guy that is picking down there and needs a quarterback, that's that's what you want.

You want to see four of these guys go in the top eight or be on pace to go in the top eight, because it makes it a race to get in front of Washington right now in theory, So I guess that would be My question is when I go through and I look at all these teams and I say, need a quarterback, eat a quarterback, need quarterback, needing a quarterback? Are any of these teams going to skip over that? And could a team that's sitting at

thirteen or fourteen have the fourth guys sitting there for then? Well, specifically, when you can't rule that out, go for it. Dane, And I think the other thing that we have to pay attention to here is if you're the Cowboys fan,

you want justin Herbert to keep tearing it up. You want to keep tearing it up because the perception of these top five, top six quarterbacks playing in the NFL right now, that matters to NFL teams that are looking for a quarterback and could be something that you know, creeps into their perception of this upcoming quarterback class, saying, wow, Okay, Herbert came in, did this two, was doing this Burrow

before he was injured, was doing this. Okay, let's go up and get our quarterback and see if he can do that. And so, I mean, I think you're right, Jeff. It's you like to see these quarterback needy teams lining up, and it's you know, those are the teams in the top eight. But like you referenced early, you've got the forty nine ers, You've got the Bears, you've got the Patriots, You've got several other teams that are just outside that

toppy who could potentially make a move. So it's it's a good year to be picking in the top five if you need a quarterback, but it could also be a good year if you have your quarterback and you

could be looking to pick up some draft capitals. So you know, it's it's it's gonna be the conversation that dominates the draft talk between now in April, so specifically, whenever it comes to your mock draft, you had Caleb Farley going to the Cowboys at pick number four, while Justin Fields was still on the table and Trey Lance was there as well, if we want to talk about

all four of those quarterbacks. So in that very specific moment, the Cowboys could have taken a quarterback if they really wanted to, if Justin Fields is their guy, and of course if Dak Prescott has not signed, like we kind of talked about in the early part of the show, But why not Justin Fields if you're the Cowboys? And why is Justin Fields a little bit for the down? Is it just because of the play of Zach Wilson or is it because he's maybe had a little bit

of a step back. Well, I mean he is coming off the worst game of his you know, two year college career against Indiana. He threw three picks, but he also had three touchdowns in that game, three hundred yards passing and o'house date got the w. So it's he's not falling necessarily, It's more about Zach Wilson and what I talked about before, how there's just so many there's

no consensus of these quarterbacks. And there's some teams. I literally talked to scouts with teams that say, Zach Wilson's their guy, He's special, that's the guy we want now. But it's still early. You know, these teams haven't had a chance to sit down with these quarterbacks and really delve into Okay, what do they know? What don't they know when we put up the tape. Do they understand what defense are looking at? Do they understand the protections?

There's still a lot these teams need to figure out. So it's it's still very early. But and I didn't do any trades. It's important to point that out too. With this mock draft. So you're going talking to the first two picks quarterbacks, the Bengals at number three, Penney Sewell, it just makes too much sense there at number four, the Cowboys, if Penney Sewell is available, I don't think

the Cowboys passed. I think that's their pick. But if they're sitting there at four and the top two quarterbacks are off the board plus Penney Sewell, what direction are they going I just don't see them going after a quarterback. You know, Dak Prescott is to me, I agree with Jeff, he's the guy. He's They're going to figure out a way. Jerry Jones has too much love for Dak Prescott to you know, buy into the potential of one of these quarterbacks. So you know you had to go in a different direction.

And that's where it gets a little tricky. Can I add on to that? Because what I would say at four is and Caleb Farley, I do think, having studied his tape, I think the potential is there for him to be the best corner in this class. I don't know that he is today, but the traits are there for him to be an absolute lockdown stud. So I get what teams will love. But if you're the Cowboys, and I know everybody's gonna kill me for this, but

I mean this. If you're the Cowboys and the fourth best player on your board is Jamar Chase and you're not sold on the corners, do you owe it to you don't you're laughing me? Do you owe it to yourself to pick the best? It's a half decade pick. It is not a pick for what you need today. It's a half decade pick. So if you felt infinitely better and you were stuck at four, then Jamar Chase is a star and the corners, well they have upside.

Don't You owe it to yourself to make that pick and then figure out what to do with your receiving corps to get picks back, whether it's moving a guy whatever. Can you surpass a guy that you think is the better player for position of need with a top five pick? This is I don't think I can, because part of that is the depth of the wide receiver class will be good again, so that's part of it, and I think you have to consider that. I like what you're doing though. I like how you just come in and

money up the waters like that. Actually enjoy this. It's team fifty Burger. That's what Jeff's ditt too. You don't have to keep them. All I'm saying is that if you're making a pick for a half decade and you intentionally take a worst player, yeah you're insane. You're talking about the best player available. You want to make sure that the best player is in your possession. Especially when Dane mocked Jamar Chase going to Philadelphia and then you're

gonna have to play him for five years. Whenever it comes to in ANFC east of vision rival, well, you're just saying, take the best player available, no matter the position. Stick with that sort of drafting mentality. Then you take your running back there. Then you know, like you know, that's how you get in these situations. And by the way, if your team fifty Burger, then your defense is team sixty Burger in that case. So like, look, let's be real, though,

do we really think the Cowboys would do that? Do we really think they would take a receiver at for I just can't see it happening. So I love out of the box thinking when it comes to the draft, but realistically, just can see the Kyle Boys doing it. And that's what I'm saying. It makes it tough at number four when you're sitting there. I think the three best non quarterbacks that I've studied so far in this

draft Penney Sewell, Jamar Chase, and Kyle Pitts. I think those are the three most just the best talents in his class. But after Penney Sewell, I'm not I don't think they'd take Jamar Chase and I don't think they would take Kyle Pitts. I mean, I just and Kyle Pitts honestly when I was I'm kind of getting us off track here. But Kyle Pitts is a very interesting prospect to talk about because he's just a different breed of pass catcher. He's not your hand in the ground

going to dominate the point of attack tight end. He's more of that hybrid move tight end version. But he's a cheat code. I mean, he is an impact player that can really add a different element to your offense. But he's not gonna not everyone's gonna be one hundred percent on board with taking a player like that that early. So figuring out where Kyle Pitts falls in this draft. He could go top five or he could go top fifteen.

It's kind of hard to figure him out. Should we have a realistic conversation about Kyle Pitts though, Like I mean, right now, you've got Jarwin, You've got Dalton Shoultz. You've got these guys a tight end, but neither one of those are game changers. I mean, we know that from the Cowboys perspective. Neither one of those guys are going to really win you a ton of games on their own. But Kyle Pitts certainly could. Are we gonna call Kyle Pitts a tight end? Are we gonna do that? We could?

I mean you try, yeah, I mean end, who did you know? I mean, I think he is a tight end. But he's he's a pass catching tight end. I mean he can yeah, you could put he could put his hand in the ground. He's a getting the way blocker. He's not gonna move the point of attack. He's he could do it enough where he can be, you know, getting the way and at least keep guys occupied. But you know, you just have to use him in the right way. And so he's definitely different. There's no question.

I almost think of him the way that we thought of Quittin Nelson when he was coming out of Notre Dame. Quittn Nelson was one of the best talents in that class, no question about it. But where's you know, not every team valued guard that highly, and Kyle Pitts he's one of the best talents in his class. Not every team values what he does as highly as other teams, So it makes it a little difficult to figure out where

is his best fit into top ten, Top twelve. I think out of the question at four, you know, you start talking about trading back then maybe they liked jar One a lot. They've invested in jar One, and I think there were more apt to go in that direction. I think it's I think that's where it kind of does. It does get fun, because we are going to have

to think outside the box. If we don't love Caleb Farley, if we don't love Patrick certain, if we don't love Micah Parsons, you know, whatever it may be, and what they do with Jalen may have may come into play when it comes to taking a guy like Michael Parsons. But I do think they know that defense is what they have to attack. I think defense, and I think, you know, knowing this organization's love for and success quite frankly, drafting some offensive linement early in the draft. I think

that's where you're seeing this team focused in on. It's like it's we got a new regime here, but I mean Mike McCarthy's here and some new coaches, but you know, Will McClay, Steven Jerry, we know how these guys think. And I think that's what we're kind of going to be looking at more than anything offensive line and then a defense first and foremost. And at number four you can't get the phone to ring, I think you're rolling the dice on Caleb Farley, if Sewel's gone or something

like that. If you can't get the phone to Ring, I think you're rolling the dice there before you're rolling the dice on Kyle Pitts or Jamar Chase. Well, Jeff, what okay? Based off who have you seen so far? If I tell you that you can't train back and you can't take an offensive player, who are you taking a four? Whoever it is, I hate it, I already is. Yeah, yeah, if you told that scenario though, right, Well, that's why I would pick Jamar Chase. I feel really good about

the player I picked. I wouldn't want to feel bad about the player I picked, and like to me, Gregory Rousseau, I'd be terrified to pick in the top five. Terrified to pick in the top five. Micah Parsons is an off ball linebacker that's relatively new to the position. I'd be terrified to pick him in the top five. Farley, I think is a solid player with really good potential. So you may be writing that that's the name. I probably today trust Patrick surtanded Alabama more than I would

trust Caled Farley. But the traits to be an elite cover corner, I think Farley has more upside, So like, that's kind of the guy. But if you told me, in any given draft year, where would you pick Caled Farley, I'd be like, ah, twenty somewhere around. I was trying to think about where Farley and certain flicking pair to last year's corners. Yeah, corner, It wouldn't be the top corner. I don't think. Um, that's that's why I get it.

I get it, and that's why four is a bad place to be so and that's why you win the games. Go beat the Bengals, you go beat a cult McCoy Giants team could be you go ahead and win that nfc'st baby, host that playoff game. Hey hey, hey, well Andy Dalton, let's go on a run. Let's go on a wild run super Bowl. That's why you do it. I like it. Picking thirty two changes the draft show,

doesn't it edge completely? Wouldn't that be interesting? We're talking about picking at four, and then a month and a half from now, we're picking at thirty two, and it's like, hold up, what, like, wait, what are we talking about? You think I got guys? Hereto, I got guys. If we're picking at thirty two. You think Derek would regret paying all of us to do the draft show since there's like twenty of us this year. Yeah, yeah, I think you would regret it, probably, But I'm not going

to bring that out, Derek. We're gonna hide this in the back half of this show for sure, so that way we don't have to talk about it. But now I want to go through Cowboys once and needs because we're talking about all these different positions. But if you had to rank the needs of the Cowboys right now, where would you put those? Because I mean you could start with corner, you can start with linebacker, you could go with defensive tackle. There's so many different spots to go.

But where would you rank the needs for the Cowboys right now? Jeff will start with you on this one, but I want to hear one through let's say four, one through four. Where are you picking if you're the Cowboys and what you need from a draft class quote need? I like, I don't think you can put linebacker as a top quote need only because in theory, your two starters are on the roster and two guys play at

a time, with linebacker for the most part. So to me, the biggest need is Cheeto's contract up, Jordan Lewis contract up. Your biggest need is corner because you'll have Trayvon Diggs and Anthony Brown and you need three minimum to start a football game. So to me, I would think corner is probably right there at the top. Safety Xavier Woods contract is up, and so it'll be Donovan Wilson and I don't know, So you're short of starter at safety.

I think you need a starter at defensive tackle. But because I'm more talking about the nose tackle and the run stopper there, I wouldn't put it at the very top of the list. So I would go corner and safety, so entire secondary, followed by potentially a linebacker or an edge player, even edge with guys like Dlon Randy Gregory

still in the mix as well. Alton Smith's a free agent, So yeah, I think even if you have Randy greg Ruth one year left on a contract, and Tank Lawrence that you want more maybe Bradley and I and Doran's Armstrong.

That's a rotate. You're happy with with those four, But I think I'm always looking for a pass rusher anyway, So I think linebacker, pass rusher, defensive tackle, those all falling line somewhere right behind your secondary cornerback, safety, OH line, d line, oh making it quick and easy, offensive tackle. I love tiring as much as anybody, but I mean, at some point you gotta start preparing for the future.

And that's why I don't think they'd pass on Penny Sewell if they have a chance at him in the top five. And it's one of those positions that you have to look at and if it's the best player on the board when you're picking in the first round, if it's a top five or it ends up being later on, that's got to be a position you look at. You know, a guy like Rashaan Slater out of Northwestern who has position flex He can help you out of guard,

he can help you out either tackle spot. That has to be appealing for a team that has struggled so badly this season with depth issues on the offensive line because of injuries. And we talk about tying so much, but it don't forget Lyle. That's a hip injury. Yeah, that's a very serious injury at that position. Um So I think we got to keep that in mind as well, And I think you have some flexibility whenever it comes to those two guys. You could always put Tying at

right tackle. You could put Collins at the guard if you really wanted to. You could you could mix a match around to the offensive line in the offseason to justify what your pick is. But we've talked about the tackles, and we talked about the corners up at the top of the draft. Is there a defensive tackle that's good enough to be picked in the first round or is that really kind of gonna be right in that area of that early second round, your first pick of the

second round, maybe even to the third. History tells us a defensive tackle is going to go in the first once in the last thirty years, an interior defensive lineman did not go in in the first round. So history tells us just h not to mention. NFL teams love to build on the defensive line, so there's a chance that maybe a Christian Barmore out of Alabama could get in there, a player that it's it's based a lot on potential and traits. UM, a guy like out of

Iowa is moving up the boards. Davey on Nixon, who's

having a really nice year. I didn't include a defensive tackle in my first round, and I don't I wouldn't take any of these defensive tackles in the first But maybe that's that's a good thing for you know, the Cowboys because in the if they're picking with an early second round pick or an early third round pick, there will be options because this is while it's it's a bad year for defensive tackles in the first round, it's a pretty solid year for defensive tackles on Day two.

So that could be the sweet spot for a team like like like Dallas. And we've seen this team go there in the past years with Neville Gallimore round three, UM, MALIEK Collins round three past So I mean, yeah, yeah, which you know, late round two feels like earlier round three or whatever, but like that, that's we've seen this team go there find that at a sweet spot. So

I think that makes a lot of sense. Jeff. If you're you're you're throwing this this wide receiver tandem out there, and you're you're you're talking about that as a potential best player available, and you mentioned I kind of want to go back to what you talked about whenever you're talking about feeling good about a player, and you mentioned Farley, you mentioned certain and then of course Jamar Chase was in that conversation as well. But who else would you

feel good about in the second round? Like if there was an early second round pick, And we talked about the value of picking toward the front half of that, is that where you have to go defense, especially if you go that offensive side, in that offensive route in the first half, or is there somebody on the offensive side of the football that you'd feel happy about early in the second Well, I feel like a lot of the guys that I'm watching, And obviously Dane has seen

seven thousand, four hundred and seventy two guys this year and I'm at about fourteen or fifteen. But I think a lot of the guys that I've been watching, whether it's the guys that are considered the top edges in this class, or the third and fourth corners in this class, or the second and third linebackers in this class, I mean,

there's a lot of players that I really like. I just think when you're talking about which guy you're going to pick at in theory number four, overall, you should be picking a guy that you feel like, man, this guy can be a star. And in this draft class, look, there's gonna be stars that come out of here, whether we identify them to be picked in the top three or five, or it's somebody who's trades and hits their ceiling like they're gonna be there. And there's guys that

I really really like. There's just not guys that I really really like picking in the top five where they're going to be incredibly highly paid in the salary cap league. But like when you're getting to the end of the first round or early into the second round. Nick Bolton,

linebacker round in Missouri, I love him. I actually have already coined him the anti Parsons because Michael Parsons is a monster who's what six four two forty five and may go sideline and sideline faster than any linebacker in the history of the league. Like he's a demon when he's when he's right. But like Michael Parsons, I feel like, you see how young he is at the position when he's dropping the coverage and when he's not diagnosing immediately.

I watched Nick Bolton at Missouri and I don't think I've ever seen him take a false step. I don't think I've ever seen him not be the first guy moving off the snap. He's always right, he's stays in a shovel. I have seen him cover, so you know he's not prototypical size. But currently first by guy in this draft is Nick Bolton. Yeah, Frisco kid, He's he's awesome and he's gonna get killed for the lack of length, but you're absolutely right, he's a bad out of hell.

The diagnosed skills are awesome, and you know there's there's some Devin Bush to his game, who of course Devin Bush win I think ten overall to the Steelers. So uh yeah, Nick Bolton absolutely could end up being a top twenty guy in this class. Also, keep in mind, you know he's really needs to show it here as the season winds down. You know, dealing Moses a kind

of a blue Star special for Alabama. There hope, you know, unfortunately towards towards knee up last year and has it looked the same this year, But you know we've seen it in his tape and a little bit from his tape last year, like there's a little bit there to go. Okay, there's if that can be untapped. He's you get a little nervous, I know, drafting injed linebackers in this organization. I know, But Dylan Moses Saga, I'm definitely not sleeping on.

I lot more guy at linebacker to mention Zaven Collins out of Tulsa. Oh, I know the Cowboys like him, all right. Uh and in a tradeback scenario, don't rule out Zaven Collins. He could be in the mix. They like him a lot. You've got how come they want let their Tulsa got played this year? Freggie Robbins. I was about to bring it up, Kaze. I was about to say that Dan, any answer to that A good question of the field, Yeah, exactly put him out there safety corner, I don't care. I mean he and he

could help you out either spots. So this I thought he was ready to step in, you know, he was. He was an upperclassman, a guy that was a veteran who had versable experience. I thought we'd see a little bit more from him. But you know, I'm not gonna sit here in question the coaches. They obviously don't feel quite ready with them just yet. But you know we

we we'd yet to read the last chapter of his book. Hey, Al Harris, Remember that time Matt Hasselbeck said, we want the ball and we're gonna score, and you intercept it. I got your attention. Now, I got your attention because you hit the interception. Might Reggie Robinson play? Just let him play? There's Katsie's final final words of the draft show. I guess before we wrap things up, but I like

the linebackers in that second round. I'm black Cabina. I'm glad you brought that up because I like Bolting a lot and got to see him at Lone Star actually down the road. Coach Rayburn does a fantastic job of producing talent, especially on the defensive side of the football there, and he's just one of those guys that's been there, done the right thing at every level he's been at it. I think he'll continue that into the NFL. So I like Bolton a lot. I was watching Moses yesterday. I

still don't really know how I feel about him. And then Dane bringing up another Tulsa defender. I'm cool with it. I like the Tulsa defender from last year. And Reggie Robinson, we just haven't seen him this year for the Cowboys, So lots of options there in the early parts of the second round whenever April comes. But that's not gonna be yet for our Draft show, as we'll be back next week and even every week after that until the Cowboys are out of contention, and then we'll go twice

a week with these different groups. But man, guys, it's been a whole lot of fun. And glad to have you back for another year of the Draft Show, Dane. Glad to have you right back in the mix like you once were full time. You were on the show quite a bit last year, but glad to have you back in the MIxS full time, buddy. Now, I saw the sign up in the sky and I came running, So I'm on board. Let's do it. Captain trade Down. You're feeling good about the draft this year? The final

five weeks of the season. Oh, Kyle, we're gonna kill this thing. To me incredible. Listen, this is what Captain trade Down lives for. Capt Trade Down list from this top five pick, turn it into three or four picks in the top fifty. Joseph Osi A sea there, Texas. I'm thinking about you. JC Horn, I see you, Tray Von mooreg I see you. We're coming to get all of you guys. We just it all starts with captain

trade down. Getting to right, Katie. I don't think there's any better way to put it like he just did. But you're right there in the same boat. You're mister Win to go to go win the division. You've got captain trade down to mister go win. You're feeling good. Yeah, I'm Sergeant Win. I'm Sergeant Win Games. Just win. We'll get We're gonna we're gonna scut him up and we're gonna we're gonna pick the right players when it's time. So just just go win games. Getting ready for Baltimore.

Let's go. That's gonna do it here for us on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. For Dan Brugler, for Sergeant Win Games for Captain trade down, I'm Kyle Yeoman's saying so long from the Star in Frisco. We'll see you next week on the Draft show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys football club,