Draft Show: What Has The NFL Combine Become?

from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. As the Big Boys guy says, Brian brought us here with Dane Brugler, David Hellman, Kent Garrison, Executive Producing Glad to have everybody on board with us today as we get into the seventy days. By the way, guys, until the NFL Draft takes place in Nashville, Tennessee. I'm kind of looking forward to when the draft goes to Vegas, that we just take this show on the road and beach. We don't we don't ever go where the draft is.

I know, we always stay here at the building. We'll make a push when it's in Vegas. Whence in Vegas will make a big push. Nashville sounds like a few okay with that burglar, Okay, that sounds going to make sure good. Why not all right, We're okay with that. Like I said, the Draft Show is sponsored by and presented by Miller Lte. We do appreciate their fine work.

Their fine product helps us along during these draft draft days to kind of, you know, after you have a busy day, sit back and have one talk about it. We're gonna talk about it today because Brian Bross is a little hot. We just you just refer to yourself in the third person, so you must be, yeah, a little hot right now? All right, what's on your mind? Yeah? Yeah, I'm getting tired of the league telling me who I

can look at and who I can't look at. You know, it's this combine those folks that work off Park Avenue up there in New York. I think that, sir, address still least to be a four or five park, I think is what it was. They they know the train schedule to Connecticut. Trust me, they don't know what goes on on these teams at a club level, especially scouting at a club level. Don't tell me what players I can and cannot look at. And for those of you

not following Brian, somebody fill them in. I'm hot to the league. Well, we knew that Jeffrey Simmons and Preston Williams would not be invited to combine, but the league receives the way to really, really, really good football players. League rescinded its invitation to Louisiana Tech defensive end Jalen Ferguson yesterday, prompting a whole new line of conversation because they did invite him. And so I've been I've been

outsick for most of the week. So Ketch, welcome back, though, wisdom teeth if I'm not up to speed on my details. They found out about some violent altercations in his past. He got into a fight at McDonald's. But it's in it's like years when he was eighteen years old. Yeah, okay, eighteen years Like if it had happened between the end of the season and now, I think that's a different kind. If I ran for president right now something, I'd have

no chance. Oh god, they would dig it. They would dig up so much stuff that's in you know, you would be on your fourth handle by like the first week. I'm the guy that wants to pay the players. Rumor that so they so he did this when he was eighteen. Yeah, I'm tired of the league. I tired. We've had this conversation and and I know, you know Dane, Dane was talking about it on Twitter. Guess Joe Mixon. We had this conversation about Joe Mixon. I thought this was going

to kind of go away. Guys. I mean, I understand you have to dig in on these kids, and I understand it's some information, but that's what the combines for the combine is for to get information to answer questions. It's for the medical. Now you've got Simmons, who we will get into this defensive tackle from this, Well, he's got he's in the new He's in the news for another reason this week. Right, so he's got he's got the off the field and plus now he's got a

knee injury he's dealing with. All Right, Well, I feel I feel a couple of types of ways about this, and you know it's We've had some healthy dis league. No I'm not I'm not going to defend the league, and I appreciate a few try I've seen some of the arguing points. You know, Like I said, Dane's had

some healthy conversations about it recently. And in the case of like, uh, you know, you know, Preston Williams or Jeffrey Simmons, or even going back to like ty Tyreek Hill where you've got or Joe Mixon where you've got some legitimately you know, scummy skeletons in your closet. Sure, um, I see what they're trying to do. You know, to Dane's point, you could call it a pr stunt if you want to, because at the end of the day,

you're hindering these teams all it is. Yeah, at the end of the day, you're hindering these teams from learning as much as they can about the players at the same time. Again, and I'm I'm thinking about, you know, like a Tyreek Hill type of situation. Maybe you know you you deserve that to some degree, like maybe you don't deserve the help. And I know you're hindering the team. But are these kids gonna get drafted anyway? They are?

But how much easier would their draft process be if they if they could just go to the combine Exactly. They're hurting the wrong people, and they're saying, you're hurting your own team, hurting teams. You're hurting your teams. You know, you talk about and these teams will spend massive amounts of money flying around and seeing these kids. But the Combine is going to give Jerry Jones and Stephen Jones and Jason Garrett the opportunity to visit with players face

to face. Jerry Jones, for all his faults as a general manager, one of them is he doesn't get to travel to see these players. I've worked for general managers that have traveled and seen these players. They have an opportunity to go to Mississippi State, to go to Louisiana Tech. Why do you take the opportunity away? If these owners, a lot of these owners are going to have to make the call. Jeff Lurry told me he did not

want to draft Randy Moss. Yeah, that was a call that Jeff Lurry made, and that was after much digging in on Randy Moss. You know, I mean, these owners do make decisions. So you're these owners show up at the combines, You're not going to give them an opportunity to make a decision on these kids. Well, this also, and I think we talked about this last week, is it ties into the fact that the Combine has become something that it was probably never supposed to be. Yeah,

trust me, it's gonna be on ABC this year. Did y'all see that there a couple hours? Specially it's gonna be on network TV. Dudes sitting there in nineteen ninety two, I never would have believed that dudes running the three cone drill is going to be a prime time network TV must see. God bless you folks, by the way, I think that's part of it. BOT bottom line for me. If you're going to allow teams to draft these players and play these players and pay these players, let them

interview the players at the combine. The combines one big job fair, no question. If you know, Google wants to hire somebody, if they're gonna hire you know, if they're open to hiring somebody with a sketchy background, but oh yeah, you can't come to our job fair. We'll still hire you, but you can't come to our job fair like It's just it's counterproductive what you're trying to do. If any thing, these are the guys that should be at the combine.

So you figure out what the person they are more about the situation, and all it does is Okay, there might be a team that is trusting the film and say, well we didn't get a chance to really vet him fully. But we're gonna take a chance on the film. Maybe you draft a bad guy, you know. It's just there's so many more advantages for the teams to having these guys there. This has nothing to do with privilege, and that's what they're calling it. No, No, it's just it's

a pr stunt. It's they're just they don't want the conversation during Combine week to be about what Simmons did and what Jalen Ferguson did. That's that's all they're trying to do. They're trying to avoid that. Yeah, if it was a strict if it was strictly a job fair, which that's the purpose, but it's not. If if that's all it was, and I don't think this would be

a thing, but it is a nationally televised event. It is one of the two biggest things that happens during an NFL offseason, and the league doesn't want that conversation happening while they're trying to monopolize airtime in February. But again, maybe I'm stupid, but the whole idea of the Combine was the medicals, the information, the interviews, and the workout. But when I when I said when, I mean, I

trust me. I was at the Combine in nineteen ninety two when it when it wasn't when they were wearing bad T shirts, and it wasn't all this. It was just about time in forties. It was about running the short show. It was about getting face to face with a kid and telling you, telling him, telling me he was an alcoholic. Ask any personnel guy in the league right now and they'll they'll tell you like they'll say, the combines not for us, not anymore. I'm embarrassed to

go to combine now. I'm embarrassed to see now that I'm part of this media. And I've written this before. It happened with the whole thing with with Mixon. I can't even look at those friends of mine in the league. The Tommy demitrofs to John Dorsey. John Dorsey told me, he says, you know what, I'd really like to talk to this mixing kid because of you. I can't. How do you think I felt about that? Well, that's clear.

You know, maybe I'm a terrible scout and all if I buy that given what he did earlier this week, well you know what though, did he did he draft? Did he draft a hell of a player? Though? Is that kid? Did that kid? Was it a hell of a player? He's a pretty good player. He's also done some shady stuff, you know what. I think there's a lot of people, if you really dig in, they've done shady stuff. And I'm not talking. I am not condoning

hitting women. I am not. That's not my But I'm just saying, though, the idea of trying to get to the bottom of why something happened, Yeah, right, is now taken away from these teams. And the other layer to this, too, is just the blanket if you have a violent incident in your past, you're not coming Like jarn Ferguson is a perfect example. Yeah got a fight and McDonald's five years ago. And I want to circle back because, like I said, I feel a lot of different ways about it.

I get y'all's point, and I agree with a lot of it. I don't hate the idea of there being some repercussions for doing terrible things, yea consequences, I don't. I don't hate that idea. I don't know if this rule is the right way to go about it, but I think there there could be a compromise where there's got to be some way where you can what is to compromise then, I don't know, Well what is before

we do that? I did like the Jalen Ferguson things sounds stupid like that if it happened when he's eighteen, sure, and you're punishing it for him, punishing him for it now, I don't think I buy that. And I don't know his whull whole history, so maybe I'm wrong, But I mean, does he have a long list of problems he's been in college? I mean mostly college stuff, you know, like in underage there, you know, but it's like not nothing that you know, You're glad there wasn't Twitter around when

I was playing football. Not Joe Mixon, is what you're saying, right, And so the Jaalen Ferguson thing sounds really stupid. But to me, the fact that they invited him in the first place and then rescind yeah, see that that's where well, but this is what bothers me is will we ever? Will there ever be a solution for this? Well? There ever be a solution for that? I have no problem, you know, consequences. I just don't think this is not a rule. Is a consequence? Is Is there a way?

Is there a way to do that? And I'm like, I'm spitball and spend player. I mean, I don't if you have a violent pass, Okay, Jeffrey Simmons with what happened to him, if he suspended for the first two games of NFL career, Okay, whatever something you did in college, though, I that's I'd rather see. That's the whole thing. It goes back with Ezekiel Elliott. Yeah, you know this this the United States government, the state of Ohio did not find him in criminal any criminal problems. But NFL is

going to play judge and jury. Now, well these are these are were these are? You have to take them all in a case. But I'm just saying, Okay, the NFL is the NFL right now playing a judge and jury. Yeah, but yeah, they're trying to be the police everything that's happening. But again it is not because they have some moral high ground here. It's all a pr stunt. Yeah, they've proven time and time again. Tired of it. They don't actually care. Tired of it. It's not gonna this rule.

I don't know they're thirty two NFL teams hate this rule well, and they should, but I don't know if it's going to change, just because again, the whole purpose of the rule is so we're not talking about but hey, we're filling you know, fifteen to twenty minutes of airtime

right now talking about it. But the whole purpose is in two weeks when we're in Indianapolis, we're not spending too much time talking about you know, you know why we're spending fifteen minutes about it, Dane Burglar, because it's our job, as our motto, is to investigate and educate. We're trying to the disadvantage that we have, and the only advantage we have, the only advantage is we get

to watch the tape. But when these players don't get to show up and we don't get the question and we don't get to hear their side of the story, then we're at a disadvantage when we're trying to when I'm when I'm trying to talk to the guy in Atlanta who's thinking about drafting this guy, or I'm trying to talk to the guy in Philadelphia that's trying drafting this guy. You know, that's where I'm at a disadvantage

that I have the advantage of watching the tape. I think, I think we all agree that this particular rule is pretty stupid. But I do, like I said, that, there's got to be some sort of way where you can accommodate both of these viewpoints. And I wonder, like, maybe I know it sounds terrifying and maybe not a fully fleshed out idea, but you could all, like you know, assess these guys cases and assign them suspensions, and I and it could work the same way an injury does.

It's like, well, you can draft this guy, he won't be available to you for the first twelve games of his rookie year. How does that affect his draft stock? I don't know is that really the right way. I don't know. Think I'm like I said, I'm thinking out loud. No, No, I appreciate you, I do. I'm sorry for but just totally discussing. I'm not completely against that because I and I'm all four guys who are have We're not talking about an underage, we're not talking about weed. We're talking

about guys with violent pass if. They and you know, it's almost like arbitration where you're going over each one specifically. Understand has a kid in Seattle been okay that whole thing, the defensive end, Frank Clark, Yeah, he's had some like missteps, but nothing like criminal. Yeah, okay, but that's some scene. You can punish these kids for stuff they did in college as they come into the NFL, like particularly heinous. Yeah, I mean if it's yeah, I wouldn't be okay, I understand.

I understand assault with a deadly weapon or I get it hitting a woman, hitting a woman, get a girlfriend. Okay, Like when Jalen Fergusons and McDonald's and about to get into a fight, he's not gonna think, oh, you know what, one day, I might not be able to go to

the combine if I don't walk away right now. But if they start doing these suspensions where Jeffrey Simmons has suspended the first four games of his rookie year of his NFL career, then maybe that is something that starts to creep into these top recruits and things, Hey, you know what, this this is gonna follow me the rest of my career. I need to walk away. If there's more consequences, it might make these kids thinks have second thoughts about it. There's gotta be a way to accommodate

the fact that this shouldn't be tolerated. But I don't think that this bs PR rule is the answer. That's basically okay, okay. If if you guys come up with a good plan, I'm list then, but that's what it's all about. But I don't have this is not a plan. The combine again is it's it's responsibility as the medical and the and the interview we I think we all agree on that. Yeah, okay, And that's again that's my point.

And again I'm sorry, I'm just going on and on about this, but I feel now being on the media side again, I feel here's my time of year where I feel responsible for not letting John Dorsey and Will McClay and John Snyder and and Tommy Demitrof and those guys evaluate players. Ran. Do you think this has anything to do with the fact that they are making this a national event now and it's on television. Of course it is, and of course it is they have to

put these guys on. I guess if if they're invited, you know, and they don't want that, like Dames PR thing. Are there far more better stories coming out of the combine than the bad ones? Always? Of course, I mean, I mean that's what I'm saying. We're there for, We're there for the majority of the thing. We're I think

we're talking about positive things that happen. You guys that have bad workouts were like, hey, he's got a they coming up March second, probably do better than there's three hundred and thirty eight of them, and like maybe I don't know, twenty or thirty have like serious character concerns. So yeah, I mean, you know what you should do with the character concern guys is don't let them work out, but let him interview and let them do the medicals and that seems talk to them, but don't let them

get the primetime national TV workout. And that's something I think is a bad idea worth talking about. But again, they don't want those guys there, so you know, out of sight, out of mind, you know, so we're not talking about it and dwelling on it. It all comes back to protect the shield. It's it's typical done a they it's uh, you know, the what what not to do playbook, And when it comes to PR is thefl

for being the most popular sport in America. It is run the worst of any of them in my opinion, Yeah, just mine. I just wish that these guys and I wish they had the opportunity to do their jobs. These guys livelihood depends on these interviews at the end of the day and again for the fifteenth time, I know, I all agree that it's I know, but you're right.

If John Dorsey wants to fuel up the G six to go down to and he will, he will, he will, he'll absolute he'll absolutely feel any you know, people talk about, oh, just go to the pro day. What happens when Missisippi State and Alabama have the pro day on the same day, you know, because we we all pro days are within you know about us. They tried four week they tried it, Yeah they try, but well a four weeks span you can only to be fair, you only you only get

thirty guys that can come to your facility. Yeah, but you can go wherever the hell you want, whenever you want. Right, But okay, but how about the situation though with the tip with the guys with Simmons with the knee Ferguson, now with how many how many people are gonna want the medical information on that guy on those kids? You can't. You can't. That's on that's on them to get it out there then, isn't it. But you want your doctor

looking at these kids if you're gonna draft. I mean, the reason why you drafted Jalen Smith is because doctor Cooper did the surgery. If doctor James Andrews comes out and says, oh, yeah, you know Simmons his knees progressing well, responded well from surgery, it's great. But yeah, again, you want your doctor and your training staff looking at these and I hear you. That's that's that's the number one problem right there. All right, Sorry about that, folks. I

just you were hot. No, I'm upset again because it makes a thousand on my head. Is disrespect. No, it reminds me of what what the combine to me was always about. You know, before there was TV and and and trust me, I'm glad you folks get to see what goes on with the combine. This ain't this ain't

your uncle Brian's combine. No, it's not. And im and I'm not trying to be get off my lawn guy, I'm just telling you though, that I feel bad for my guys that they're trying to do their jobs and they can't because of me now being in the media. That's why, that's where I'm I hear you. I'm feeling bad. Okay, when we come back, we're gonna talk some football here.

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That is it, Doctor Pepper? Craving Doctor Pepper? The one you crave is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com draft, Showboys on the Club. Indeed, we're back here at the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian Broadens, Day Burglar, David Helma, Kitt Garrison Executive Producing. Again, thank you guys for hanging out with us. Thank you for hanging out with us on periscope. Appreciate that. Uh you know they love the interaction with the fans.

I think that's important to our show. I think it's what kind of drives us to look at these players and to be able to talk about him because we get the opportunity. Again, we don't discriminate. If you're a fan of another team, we'll give you a lot of names. You know, we probably won't get into all your team

needs and stuff. But as the draft goes along, if you follow along with us, we get to the end and we do the three days of draft coverage, we will talk about team and team needs and who you picked and stuff like that, and you'll be better for it because you'll know these names and I know in these names. It also means we do something called twitter on the Twitter, David Hillman, I'll let you have this

show now. Yeah, Jay must have heard Dane talking about the number of cornerbacks the Cowboys have in contract years because he wants some mid tier corner names. Speaking of names, just like you know Day three or round three, round four, you know late day two, early day three cornerbacks. A late three guy that I like, Justin Lane from Michigan State. Yeah, good player. Former wide receiver made the switched over to corner. A little leggie, plays on his heels at times, but

he moves well, good speed, love his ball skills. As a former wide receiver, you would expect him to have, you know, top shelf ball skills and he does absolutely And I think he's his instincts took a big jump this year. I think he's continuing to get better and better. So I think Justin Lane from Michigan State is a name to keep on the radar. If we're talking, I'm a great a little bit higher, but if he's there in the late third, he would make sense. Where do

you have Julian Love a little bit higher? Julian Love out Dame. Yeah, I've going back and forth on him because he doesn't have elite size and he doesn't have elite speed, but I love his feet and he just has a knack for being in the right place right time. Now you see that lack of size show up to watch a Stanford game Antar Sega Whiteside, so you see the lack of length like a size show up. But that bullyed a little bit. Yeah, but I think you could. I mean I think as a nickel especially um, I

have a solid two on him. So he wasn't a two three, he was more of a solid yeah, more of a solid two. Yeah. I'm a fan of his. Just see, I have been more than as a third is what I have. And I'll tell you about this kid. He's one of these guys who travels with whoever the best receiver is. Yeah, and that's and he's not afraid to play. And but Dane's right about him though, and but about his you know, the ability he has. He got again, like I said, got buoyed in the air

a little bit on the fade. And I think that has to do with his size. But this guy reacts really quickly. He's got that lateral slide to him. He has a feel how to play with those offhand and stuff. So I kind of got him more in the third round, probably because of the lack of height. He's right now five ten one ninety one. I think I'm carrying him at you know, so doesn't sound like a Chris ras Shard guy. Well, you know, but then again, when you talk about guys that play, you know, long arm, guys

that play with the offhand and stuff. We saw, you know, those the kinds of guys that talk about But you're you're not discourage. You're not discourage. You're not wrong. If we're talking with the long armed guys, then that's the Isaiah Johnson from Houston. Yeah, there, Donnie Johnson from Kentucky, the Penn State kid. Yeah. I think you know, we'll see how some of these guys might get pushed up because they play corner and they have the length, Yeah,

the height, length, speed. But if they're there in a late third, they would make some sounse I'll answer. I'll answer one from Reuben Isaiah Johnson. I kind of liked him too. Uh, we get this, we get this a lot. I wish I had a date for you. I says, did the Cowboys have any compensatory picks? I'm certain that they will get at least one there the fourth round. They're due a fourth from Anthony Hitchens. I know people in the front office are at least optimistic that they'll

also get a sixth. Don't ask me like the formula is so bizarre. It's a you know, incoming contracts, outgoing contracts. How much did you pay, how much did they pay? How much did they play during the season. I don't remember the particulars of it, but the fact that they released Deonte Thompson before the fourth back, Yeah, so they should are they at least have a chance to get

a sixth. So they have five picks right now, there's at least a decent chance they will certainly get a fourth for Hitchens and then they might get another one. Kind of did have as many as seven picks, kind of in an interesting spot, sitting at the bottom of the draft, you know, of each round. Yeah, when you're sitting down there, though, somebody maybe from the top of the next round want to come visit you. Yeah, so that's kind of maybe there's a player that they do

not want to get out of the round. So if you're interested in maybe moving back a few spots, so you take that fifty eight move back, maybe you could pick up some extra stuff along the way. But sitting at the bottom of the draft is not a bad thing if you're looking to add picks, because people from the top of the draft want to get back in.

Like I said, the league has a date for everything that happens, except for that they I don't know when they're going to announce the compis that usually does it happen while we're at the combine or he used to happen at the owner's meetings, but then they start last week they surprises and did it a couple weeks earlier, so sometime in March if I had early March would be my guess. All right, we touched on this in

the first segment. How important is the Cowboy? How important is pick fifty eight to this roster in twenty nineteen? Meaning if Jeffrey Simmons acl injury pushes him down toward fifty eight, do you pull a Jerry Special and grab him or nah? Not playing at all? Right, Dane too nineteen doesn't seem like you wouldn't think so. I mean you wouldn't want to push him, you know, I mean where do you think? Okay? First of all, his draft evaluation and projection was difficult to begin with because of

the baggage um. And you know it's it's funny because you talk to people film stop twelve right, film top six stop seven. Thing I was being nice, thank you good last week when you were you and I were talking. The one thing that I came away with the draft show is that from last week was Williams is clearly your top. William Wims from Alabama's clearly you're your top guy, but the gap between him and Simmons Mississippi State is

not as fast as fair. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's I think Nick Boson and Quinn and Williams are two best players in this draft and then there's a there's a gap. But Simmons is in on that second tier, right right, Yeah, so I think we agree there. But you know, because of what happened when he was in March, right after he signed to Missisippi State, before he even you know, went on the campus. Yeah, that's what people on periscoper tell me. This wasn't even this didn't happen

at college. No, it happened, you know. I mean he technically wasn't even enrolled. So you know, it's something that is arian over there's video of it, and if there's videos, yah, see that's baggage. Sometimes you have to take those things into account. Prom Well, I'm I'm you know, so we'll see. I mean, I'm not trying to be mean here. He I feel really strongly he would have been a top

twenty pick. Now, he could have been as high as top seven or eight, or it could have slipped to the teens who knows now with the ACL my early guest as he goes somewhere between twenty five and fifty, that's my early game. See I've talked, so you still are in a situation where you're probably having to trade up to get a guy who's not going to play. I've talked to I've talked to several scouts around the league about this, and I said, can this guy get

to the Cowboys? And they, to a man, we're saying no, I don't, no way. I like what you're saying, because fifties fifties close. Yeah, I'm gonna scout to think scouts seem to think twenty five to more like forty five. That's kind of where that that range. I'm gonna steal up the point right off of Dane's twitter. I think you were the one that made it is Sidney Jones is not as good as a player as Jeffrey Simmons,

not at all, and he went forty four with its achilles. Yeah, and so really, I mean achilles are looking at it, that's the worst injury than At Dane's point, I just said, oh yeah, because Sidney Jones was looked at as a guy that's possible first rounder, top twenty pick possibly, and you know he had the achilles at his pro day, and yeah, I still went I think forty three to the to the Eagles. So and there's been some mixed results how that's worked out for Philly. But Jeffrey Simmons,

I think somewhere twenty five to fifty. I don't think he's gonna be there fifty eight. But I'm gonna I'm gonna step out on a limb and say he's still a first round pick. I wouldn't be shocked. And it'll be it'll bring three, I'm right, Yeah, it'll be. It'll be a Patriots type pick or maybe a you know, a team with multiple picks, team that doesn't have a drastic need. It's just like, yeah, let's get this thirty one. I think that makes some sense. Yeah, just a question here,

you're kind of switching things. Joseph asked off of periscope. He said he's seen some second round projections for Nada, the tight end from Georgia. It's possible. Is that possible? Possible? I don't know if it's likely. Um, I think Irv Smith's clearly your second round tight end. And then Sternberger first round tight end Smith. Okay, that's what you're saying, that top forty, he's gonna go somewhere on top forty. I wonder if that's And I like Nada a lot.

You know, we talked about him Thursday. I sat down and watched him for a couple hours on Friday, big fan. I think he fits really well with what the Cowboys do. Kevin Turner wrote a really nice right up on him on Twitter or well on the Athletic but he was promoting it on Twitter. Um. But I wonder if it's one of those things where, like you know, Cowboys draft hive mind, maybe he's overvalued in our minds because he seems to fit with this team. Flicking player though he

is a lot to watch him. Is he a top forty pick? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think. I don't I have Sternberger over him, though, do yeah? But but man, just gun gun to your head, do you think? I know? Sorry, Like, if he's there at fifty eight, I kind of I got to imagine there's a better player also there. I think, so yeah, I have a third round great on Nada. I like him a lot too, But you know, he just I like

him a lot. I don't think I like him, but there goes there goes, there goes the thought of there goes the thought of if you don't draft him at fifty eight, you're not going to see him at Well, that's that's the draft. I mean, no, no, but that's yeah, he's not gonna last thirty two more picks. Exactly does that make? That's not reason's worth picking over the not reason over draft him. I'm just saying no, I'm a big fan of his. If he you know, if they

drafted him, I wouldn't be upset. But I just think there will be a better player there. Yeah, trade up in the third round and go get him. Um, I got one. Okay, this is a fun one. I got one too. If you need one, Uh well here all right, I'll go. Then you go our buddy Jonah Tolls. Yeah, which in the scout the way y'all were talking up Jowan Williams from Vanderbilt last week, he should pay attention. Well, here we he wants to know who's better, who's the

better Williams, Jowan or Greedy? And he he thinks it's Juwan. For whatever it's worth, I think Jowan definitely has better upside um with what he could be because he's just you don't see corners like Jowan william You don't. I can't wait to take a picture of him at the combine. I'm taking that. I can't pull that out. Yeah, and pull that out as a drop. That guy he's physically on tape. Oh my gosh, you're gonna stand next to his podium like you did for Miles beaming with Yeah,

that's kind of a kind of creepy scout guy. And Miles Garrett came out. He just he looked like an action figure. Yeah. By the way, DK Metcalf, you see that picture, he needs to lose weight. Gonna say, that's that's almost two much Boston Like maybe, well, very it's very impressive, but yeah, but that's what I'm saying. David Boston was a ninth overall pick. Yeah, so Greedy Williams is commonly looked at as a top fifteen prospect. It's third on my board, third overall hole no, no, no,

third of the third one. Okay, I was going to say, I think Byron Murphy's a top guy, right, Yeah, who do you have? Two? Hang on and we'll tell you that Jowan Williams, Murphy Baker Williams, okay, DeAndre Baker. Yeah, where does Jowan Williams follow on? He's a second round guy, he's the next and then your sin and mulling. So as much as you like him, you think that there's a pretty clear gap between the two between Jowan and Greedy. Well, yeah,

because it's one's the first round. It's okay, admit it, like you're not killing anybody, no, no, but it's like, get off the fence. I'm trying not to be on the fence. You know. When it's all said and done, I bet you I end up shoving. I bet you I shoved Williams up there in the first I bet you I do. I'm a coward. The way you're gushing about okay, well, he's probably gonna run off four or five four. You know he's not gonna run really well. Tape is so good people, Well it's it's good and bad.

I mean, let's be you know. I think the traits, the traits are what's really impressive with Joe on Williams. Yeah, you watch the Georgia game. That's what sticks out in my mind. That showed I thought a lot of the good and a lot of the bad because he moves really well. He's a loose athlete. He's big and long, but he also got beat deep. I mean, if he takes a false step, he's done. He's totally. Yeah, but he's got those he's got the length to like when

he's on the line. He's not in that they play in that way if they play if the zone team. And I don't mean to be like just he's not. Actually everybody, yeah he's not. He's not. But I just look at that guy and I'm thinking, And then there's been some there's been some corners in this league or guys that we've seen. If I remember that Utah kid back in the day that was tall, it is probably four years ago. Row, Yeah, that kind of the long, big guy and you're like, oh, this guy's and then

and then he just busts. Cornerback is the position that scares me the most, honestly, probably because I think it's well other than quarterback. It's the hardest pisial football. Absolutely, and like every year you've like become enamored with this dude with you know, this huge wingspan and he's six two, but he can run like a gazelle and then you know he's just it's might never pissing to evaluate because it's so fast. It's like a dance and it's you know,

the traits are one thing, the techniques another. Ball instincts. There's so many layers that go to making a good corner I mean Greedy to me, I'd go with him over Joe On Williams. But I mean they're both top five corners in his class. Wouldn't shock me if they go both in the first round? Um, you know, I think this is a would be surprised. Would you be surprised if Williams went above Greedy Williams in this draft? Not completely shocked. I'd be surprised, not completely shocked. I

think I'd be surprised. Which it's always interesting just to see how the narrative changes, Like when Colin when you know, in October of the season, it was like, well, Greedy Williams is a top five pick, and then so how does how does the reality ape up to what the narrative was. So like the narrative says Greedy is going to be a top fifteen pick. So if another cornerback were to go above him. That would be it would

be pretty surprising. What do you think about Baker from Georgia Disappointed he pulled out of the Senior Bowl or he didn't accept his his Senior Bowl invite. Um. I thought he has a really just natural way of I think reading and then making him play at the catch point, you're gonna see what he runs, because I don't think he's you know, he's not a burner. He's not gonna and I think you could say that about it, like all these quarters Byron Murphy. Yes, he's not an elite

size speed guy. You know, he just has tremendous quickness and anticipation. The ball skills are outstanding. I think he's like above average and everything except length, size, speed I'm talking about Byron Murphy. Yeah, and then yeah, you could say that. I mean DeAndre Baker's undersized a little bit. I like Rocky a Sin a lot, Joe One Williams. So each one of these guys you can poke holes

in them. It just kind of depends on what type of corner you're looking for and if you if you really love Samuel Deebo Samuel from South Carolina, speaking of guys, I'd take over Nada. Yeah, but don't watch, don't don't watch. Don't watch the tape against Georgia. Don't watch that tape. Okay, that's bad tape for him. I gotta tape for Samuel. Put it that way real quick before we take this break here. This is a it's a very it's a very Cowboys center question, but it's a good question from

Wayne Um. It's a good point. The Cowboys always try to address their biggest holes in free agency with minor signings to free them up in the draft. What's that position like if you know they're gonna make two or you know, outside of resigning their own guys, they're gonna sign. They're not gonna be needle moving signings most likely, but they're gonna sign some guys just to give themselves freedom in the draft. What position is that? Can? I can?

What do you got? Well? The problem is, though, what I like a thirty one year old slot receiver that can play inside and out? Who are you talking about Golden tape? Ah? Okay, Okay, now that's interesting. I saw you talking about that on Twitter. Yeah. Now, the thing about it is, though Dane's told me that there's a lot of slot players in this draft. There's a lot

of slot players in every draft. Yeah, but am I am I willing to go out and say, Okay, I can I can sign a Golden Tate that could play slot and inside or some slot and outside, or can I go and load up and try and get this guy from the Great Northwest to come here and recruit him? Now both, I can't do both. I just can do one. Probably you probably can't do both. I can't do both. I can only do one. Which one would you rather have? That's what I'm asking right now. Boys, I'd rather have

the safety. Yeah, I think that's easy to me. Okay, if that's the case, then Dane, we're gonna see the load up and talk about these players. That is a step that is a step above what the Cowboys traditionally do. And and hey, you can't you can't predict anything with certainty. I definitely think that there are gonna be some Earl

Thomas conversations. There's gonna be some real Thomas conversations. But that is it's gonna be a departure from what they've done in the last It's to be about Earl comics, to be about Earl Thomas, conversations of how much money. Yeah, they realized Earle Thomas is a really good football player, knowing Rod Marinelli, and I'm you know, there's a million people that are gonna hate what I'm about to say, but I could see them signing like a veteran just

defensive tackle guy to get the job done. Yeah, I just not meaning they wouldn't draft one, but just to make sure they don't have to draft one. I'll tell you what though, Man, this defensive tackle group is not bad. No, it's really good, not bad at all. And that's where I kind of again I'm starting, you know, when we've talked about Williams and Oliver from Houston, Simmons, Wilkins from Clemson, Jones from Ohio State. Tillery is a guy we mentioned,

Lawrence who knows Dexter. Lawrence from Clemson, who knows where that that all is gonna where that one's gonna shake out? Bugs from Alabama. I mean, it's a pretty deep list of guys, okay, but just but can't you just see him from Arizona State. It's another guy that we need to mention. I'll be I'll be an, lets you Homer for a second, just because He's the first name that cropped up on my on my screen, like Benny Logan

is going to be a free agent. Yeah, couldn't you see him just offering him a small deal just so he's there so they don't have to get a defensive tackle early in the draft. That's like exactly the type of thing they like getting more that we have that uh oh, the defensive tackle that we that got hurt during the season. That why am I going? Brain did I don't know? Or to Montree more he's been gone for a year. I'm thinking of I hate when I do this to myself. Ardy tackle. Yeah, there was a

defensive tackle that they really really liked. You're killing me, No, look it up, I am, but anyway killing me? There was god what more just a Tone Jones, daytone Jones. Oh he didn't get hurt in the middle of the season. He got hurt in training camp. Yeah, but Daytone Jones. Yeah, yeah, he's still around. You can do that. See that's what I'm saying. I was more. It's I did that with him. It's more Jones. I knew it was something like that. Yeah that's all right. No, that's a good point, but

that that might be something that they do. But I'm I'm if you, if you guys tell me I could get her Earl Thomas, I just play safety. I'm gonna I'm gonna look at drafting a slot player. Then we say it all the time, but like the conversation will change because of free agency. Like you know, I'm driving the train to draft a wide receiver right right. If they go get Golden Tate, I'm gonna shut up about

that because that doesn't make sense. Penny Hurt in the late third round, who is a combine snub, by the way, the biggest combine snub this year? Um um, all right, do we need to take a break. We do need to take wreak. I was looking at just looking through periscope real quick, and could they're on the They're on the Tate train, but they're also on the Earl Thomas. Way, rather have Earl than Tate now. And I think Golden

Tate's a great player, no disrespect to him. Okay, when we come back, we're gonna have some more draft talk for you. Stay tuned. If you're like me and you love I mean, if you have a high thing, then cutting the chord is scary. But then I found out I could switch to direct TV now and still get the live sports I love. No satellite needed, no bulky hardware, no annual contract, just that the live sports. You try direct now for ten dollars a month for three months.

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a weekend. You won't want to miss. Buy your passes now before they sell out at Cabo Texas dot com Cabu Texas dot com. Quick story if you guys allow me, kaa boo lost Thanks day for that. We lost a scout this week, Ron Hughes. Now take a real quick story about Ron Hughes. What kind of guy Ron Hughes was? He's never known you to tell a quick story. Okay, I'll do the best I can. We're at the combine timing and we're sitting there at the forty. Hughes his group,

he's with the Lions. He's lined up in front of us. I think the Colts were behind us at the time. So we're all lined up in our row in between players. Hughes turns to his intern to his right, reach into his wall and hands a kid one hundred dollar bill and he says, hey, we need a hundred dollars worth of Whitecastle hamburgers right now. So the kid took off, still their time and players next thing. You know this kid, You know those little white castle hamburgers were like biscuit burgers,

fifty cents a piece. Whitecastle like half whitecastle. When you walk at the combine in Indianapolis, you ever had crystal crystal whitecastle it's a bite sized burger. It's it's yeah slider, Yeah, basically a slider Hughes. Hughes went into his pocket, gave his kid one hundred dollar bill and came back. Kid had boxes of hamburgers. And so all the scouts, we're all up their time in forties, like clocks in one hand, white castles in the other, just kind of munching away.

But you know, that was kind of the guy Ron Hughes with He said, you know, I'm gonna buy lunch for everybody up there at the timing stations and stuff. The combine. So we lost one this week. Ron was with the Pittsburgh Steelers, so h you know, rest in peace, my friend. I appreciate everything you've ever done for me. Um. Okay, you people on periscope, you know, I mean, I love this periscope stuff, you really do. I think I love the interaction. I love the interaction. Yeah okay, and it's

like a j I think they're doing this right. As his idea is Earl Thomason free agency defensive tackle, a fifty eight penny heart in the third, running back in the fourth, what about his plan or her plan? Honestly, I love I love the plan, but it drives me crazy when people do that, Like they create a grocery list of like this, this is how you're gonna solve you guys spatting down our fans. Well, what you don't predetermine? What is the tagline of the show. Yeah, oh yeah,

it's investigating energy. Like the whole reason we do this is to open your mind up to as many possibilities as possible so that you don't fixate on one thing, so you're not sitting there like, it's gotta be Pennyhart with pick number nine. Do we need to know their third round pick? Do we know the number yet? I don't think we even do we do, because like ninety one, yeah, something like that. The earliest Camp pick is at the end of the third round, so we do know it.

I just it's gotta be Pennyhart with pick No, it doesn't because what if what if an offensive tackle is great and significantly higher than Pennyhart or and or right? Yeah, I mean no, yeah, Like I love the idea because I do think they need a draft a running back. Sure, I do think they need to draft a slot receiver. I would love to have Earl Thomas on this team, But to itemize it like that and set yourself up.

That's why, like seventy five percent of draft picks get booed because dumb draft fans, not our fans, because our fans are smart but dumb, hoping we're gonna qualify that our fans are incredible, but dumb, dumb draft fans are like, it's gotta be a d tackle or else it's a wasted pick. No, how many And to be perfectly fair, we had plenty of our own doubts about Layton vander esh during the draft process, But how many people were upset about that pick because it didn't hit like it

wasn't a wide receiver. It wasn't like it didn't hit the perfect chord, you know, like it wasn't How could they do that when we need a defensive tackle. Oh he's in the Pro Bowl. Shut up, stop, Like that's not how the draft works. So no, you're it. I love the thought process and I would I would do a backflip if they got a really good running back in the fourth round, but I understand that it doesn't always fall that way. Will you think about Bryce Love

and the fourth I'm here for it. I love there's another one those knees, right, Yeah, that's don't do it to take your risky pick in the fourth you're gonna have two fourth round picks. No, I'll tell you what Bryce Love to me when I first why, I felt like Bryce Loves should have come out a junior year. Oh, everywhere Bryce Sluck comes out his junior year, he might. He might have been a high second round pick. You've been top fifty, yeah, top sixty. Yeah, there's no question.

But this is a guy that loved college. He cared more about getting his degree than both of the NFL. So yeah, yeah, if he could do it all over again, he probably still goes back to school. Yeah, he doesn't leave early. Even though this senior year did not offensive line was terrible, the quarterback didn't help him out, he didn't have a great year, and then of course the injury. Even if he had to redo it all over again, he probably would have just because that's the type of

kid he is. But with that said, you get a two round discount, get him an elite fourth round this year. That's not a bad Uh. I have really good catcher, really good runner. I have a few misgivings just because I mean, how do y'all feel about making him run between the tackles. I don't feel good about it. No, that's not his strength. Oh but no, but man, he's not afraid. No, McCaffrey, prove that, Mcca. The way the offense is, you have to be able to run through

the tackles to play. I don't twee the tackles to play at Stanford. I don't worry about his willingness to do it. I worry about his durability. And I understand. I understand that you have Zeke, but he's still gonna have to be able to do it to be a well rounded backup. But I would still like if you could again, you know, we'll see what the compics are, but like, if you could get him with pick number one thirty seven, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm way here for it.

What position do you having the hardest to evaluate right now? Probably? I mean, he would people sit down and really start digging in on these guys. What area are they gonna go? Oh my gosh, I don't know where this direction this is gonna go. Yeah, the linebackers because there's just not that there's not that many. And then the ones at the top, you're kind of like you so if you need a linebacker, you're kind of slo Was that the well, yeah,

Layton vander I should be the top linebacker in this draft. Yeah. I don't feel like that's a reach at all by saying that, Um, you got the kid that's undersized at Michigan, I mean, yeah, you love him, but again it's just he's undersized and that shows up. Um. Yeah, there's so much to like about Mac Wilson Alabama, but he just the light bulb has to come on at some point for him, you know. It just he didn't show that

development this year you wanted to see. And then after that, like I really like Jermaine Pratt from NC State, Yeah, really like gut to buy from Hawaii, but to buy from Hawaii is really good. Yeah. And so these guys are Day two picks and I think they can play in the league. But it's just not a really like I'm mapping out. I've been doing my top ten on the Athletic the last few weeks and I just posted pass rushers yesterday. Tomorrow will be defensive tackles, Monday will

be linebackers, And I'm trying to narrow down. I mean, I have like my top nine. I'm just trying to figure out who that last guy is at a ten spot. It's just kind of tough because just trying to fill these guys in because there's there's a lot of names, not a lot of talent. See that. That would scare me a little bit if I'm as a team looking

for a linebacker, which it should. Selfishly, I'm not worried about it because no, but I'm talking about all our brothers and sisters who are following other teams screw them. It's probably the sorry, my apologize. If we're going to rank the positions and this year's draft, I think linebackers probably at that bottom, if not at the very very bottom. They want to know about the linebacker from Notre Dame to von Coney. Yeah, I like him, I don't love

him like other people do. I think he's he got better in coverage just past year, but I still have questions. I don't think he's gonna a guy who's gonna be able to cover in man, especially so he's like a two down player. Maybe he is he six foot two thirty? Is he six foot two thirty two thirty? Yeah? Yeah, Um, but he's not a guy that I'm gona trust him third down. I mean, I there are other linebackers in

this draft that I would rather have. And if we're talking about it, if you're looking for a three down guy, um to buy Pratt. Take both those guys as three down players over to von Kony And I think Coney's a solid, probably a third rounder because he I think he does a lot of things well, but I don't know. It's tough to get really excited about him. That's that's I mean, this is a scary proposition. I mean, so what you got, Devin White, Devin Bush? Yeah, who am

I forgetting mack Wilson. Mack Wilson to buy Pratty mentioned not trying to. I'm not trying to pat the cowboys on the house. Joseph Kid from Florida, vander esh Pick looks even better. Yeah, in the light of that fact, Joseph's too. You love the strengths, but the weaknesses you really worry about. I mean, he's just he flies all over the field. You love that, but uh, he just he's over aggressive, false steps everywhere. Um, there's a lot of things about him that you're optimistic, but you're also

you're very cautious. If not safety then or not linebacker, then safety's a position that another I think it's better than linebacker, but another one where you have questions about some of these players. Yeah, love Adderlee. I think Thompson's, you know, not that top ten pick that you know we thought maybe initially in the beginning of the season when he got off to such a hot start, when you you know the full body of work and you watch his film and he's more of a late one,

early two. I love Taylor rat He's a I think he's gonna be a starting safety in this league for a long time, even though he might never make a Pro Bowl. Yeah, he's I don't think he's he's a good play right about that. But you know, Jonathan Abram on Thornhill, Um, we kind of talked about Thornhill and Abram last week, though, didn't we like, would you rather kind of a guy Abram Mississippi State safety. Right, he's a kid that's matured, working out. He's working out here.

Michael Johnson McKinney. Yeah, Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, I mean he's married, he has a daughter. I mean he's Yeah, he's kind of an older gentleman of that locker room. Um, well, I didn't fall in love with Hooker or with Belle Hooker being from everyone in love with Hooker. Yeah yeah, he uh he he. I love the love these I love these exchanges. He loved the instincts like, but he's just not a premier athlete, Like he's almost like a he almost has linebacker athleticism. Yeah, you know, but I

think he sees the field really well. I think he anticipates really well. He just he doesn't have that quick twit that you really want in a guy that is going to be covered a slot or you're you want single high or so. I struggle with him as well. I mean, you're not wrong the President of State kid as well, Mike Bell. I think they're both kind of in a similar range. That was a Twitter question that we didn't get to, but that conversation reminded me a

couple of minutes. It was along the lines of like, uh, you know, is safety a situation where if you don't get one early, is it worth trying to get one at all? Which I can't help but think about Xavier Woods and how late you got him and how well he's played so I don't know. I don't know the third round grade on Xavier Woods. Yeah you did, But is I mean, is there depth there? Like I remember

saying that last that's a position. I mean, if you're not gonna I'm working through these defensive linemen right now. If you're not gonna get it in the second or third round, is it really better than what you already have on the roster. That's fair, Mike Evans Blair from Utah. Unless you're going for a pure upside kid that you want to develop, I think in terms of immediately play right now, make a big impact. Yeah, you're not wrong.

If you don't get a guy in second or third round, you're not going to probably find him in the fourth. That's all the more reason if you're going to make a splashy free agent signing, all the more reason for it to be Earl, because I guarantee you we can find a slot receiver on day three. Renfro Trey Quinn was mister irrelevant line exact, which I still can't wrap my head around. Yeah, you know, and Kent's got the Earl Thomas video playing right now for you if you're

watching along with us. That's the one thing that cat can do, he's around the football. Do you think this team would be open to a big slot receiver or do you think they really Humphrey from Texas Little Jordana or do you think they really want that quick footed I can't say what they want right, but that's kind of what I've been saying, is I'm over the idea

that your slot has to be five eight. I mean, Cole Beasley is great, he's a really good player, but like you know, again, what's easier for the quarterback to throw to the guy that has separation or the guy that's bigger that probably will have contested catches. You can't find a guy that can do both. And I'm saying not that guy, but Jalen Herd from Baylor another one. Yeah,

that's another guy you need to look at. Juju Smith Schuster is technically a slot receiver, but he can do a lot more than no so it can Golden Tate. So why don't you go find that guy instead of a you know, I want a guy that can line up everywhere. If he winds up predominantly in the slot, that's great, but I want a guy who can do it all. What about the kid Doss from is it Cal poly or Cal Davis cal Davis? Uh yeah, just really really seasoned route runner like he used to get

every slot guy. Is he kind of a uh yeah? I mean I don't see why he couldn't even ask you a question. I don't see why he couldn't he but he's not gonna be a you know, a quick twitch guy. But at the same time, he understands how to manipulate defenders get their hips turned. So yeah, I think you can play in space and do that be just fine? Okay, that's a that's a question to get answered at the buying Yeah, when you're out at the

bars or whatever. Absolutely, do we need to just be looking at the Hunter Renfro type receivers or do we need to have a wider net? Need to have a wider net there? So okay, hey, well that's about all the time we have today. I'm gonna just kind of talk through some things that we need to do next week. Our group is out of town on Thursday, being Dallas Cowboys dot Com. And so we're gonna have the draft show for you Friday, the Friday, next Friday, not Thursday,

but next Friday. I'll tweet it out and kind of follow along with all our accounts, and we'll make sure you know about that at the time, probably eleven am on Friday or maybe earlier. We'll figure it out, and then the next thing is we get the Combine, which we'll be at in Indianapolis the following week. Shows will be on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so you'll have the Draft Show, you'll have it Friday, and then five days after that. So really excited about that, Really excited

what's ahead for the show. Really excited again to have everybody involved the way we do. Thank you guys for being a part of this. From Buddy's Day, Burger, David Helman, King Garrison, I'm Brian Brouss. We'll see you next Friday with another edition at the Draft Show. Stay tuned. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.