Draft Show: Unleash the Beast

This is the Dallascowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war room for insider news and draft analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the.

Star in Frisco.

Today is Thursday, January twenty fifth, and we are ninety one days away from the NFL Draft in Detroit, Michigan. As we welcome you into the Draft Show presented by Miller lightlive from the SWBC studios. Here at the Star in Frisco, we have Nick Harris, Brian brought us, Zach Waltschuk.

And filling in.

Today we have a very very special guest from the Athletic the one the only, Dane Brugler joins us prior to Shrine Bowl in town.

What's up Dane?

Hey, how are you guys? This feels right, you know, it feels so good be back.

I mean Frisco and the Cowboys they hold such a close place to my heart. After I graduated college, came down here, lived here for ten years. Any chance I have to come back, I'm here. And so when the Shrine Bowl announced they're moving to Frisco, yeah, fist pump, it's going to get to go to Frisco now on my scouting tour through the draft process. So this is gonna be a lot of fun. I'm excited you guys, welcome me back.

You've got a little twinkle in your eye.

I don't know if it's the new studio lights or what it actually ends up being, but it does.

It's a little bit different in the last time you made it in here.

And we've always said, as I knocked your laptop over, we've always said that the invitation's open, and we mean it. Anytime Danes in town, we're gonna make it happen. And this is the beginning of a very busy, busy couple of months for you, right, Oh, no doubt.

I mean for all of us. Really, this the All Star season is. We're in the midst of it.

You know, we've had the Hula Bowl, We've had College grid Ironer Showcase with down the road in Fort Worth.

Starting this weekend is the Shrine Game.

The Shrine Bowl, you know, one of the oldest All Star game, and it's been It was in I mean how many places.

It was in Tampa for a while, yeah, with the Vegas.

I remember when it was in Palo Alto forever out in California. That's one of my first experience of going in nineteen ninety two. But you're absolutely right story historically, Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I've played in this game. Yeah, even recently. I mean Brock Purty played in this game.

Yeah.

You look at some of the quarterbacks that were starting in the NFL this year as rookies, Aidan O'Connell with the Raiders or Dorian Thompson Robinson with the Browns, he was in this game.

So there will be plenty of talent.

Here this week for us to get our eyes on and figure out, figure them out before we get through the Combine Pro Days workouts.

So it's a it's a good first step.

Well, we're certainly glad you're here in getting a chance to catch up with you in studio.

Brian.

I mean, he's one of the OG's, he's he's the he's one of the founders.

When Ed Cahill had had the idea about it, Derek Eagleton, you know, we all talked about it, and then Dane was really getting started in his journey involved and you know he just came off as this like man, this guy works hard at it, he's got an opinion. It was perfect for what we were trying to do to launch the Draft show. And uh, I'll always be indebted

It's really is the Draft Bible.

And and and I just remember that the what Dane went through to get that out and just to and we were promoting it on our you know, some of the early draft shows and people then it became like you couldn't have a draft without it, you know.

And and I just was so proud of what he's done.

Uh, where he's, where this journey has taken him, and the respect around the league and around the world for his ability to evaluate this these players, and uh, it's it's it's it's a sense of pride that I know Dallas Cowboys dot Com had a big part of his career going forward.

No doubt, and we always cheer for Dane.

He's also I joked about this, but I'm completely serious about it. The only reason I have a subscription to the Athletic is to make sure that I've got to get that yeah to the beast whenever it comes to draft time. And I do a show Monday through Friday with John Machoda of The Athletic and Dame's the reason why I have the Athletic subscription.

But shot, John, Josh.

I read your articles too, don't worry, but uh really is good to have you. But let's not just sit here and patch shake around. We got to talk some draft now. I want to talk about the We're going to preview the Senior Bowl coming up in the next segment, and then the Shrine Bowl and the third segment, but just to get us started, your thoughts on where the depth of this draft is, because that's really where Cowboys fans are looking right now. They're looking for these different

I think at most years, I'm more excited about Day two than I am in the first round. But this year it's kind of the opposite. I love the first round this year. I think this could be like a eleven NFL draft when we literally half the picks in at two has an eleven NFL draft.

We're Pro bowlers.

Yeah, I think we.

Could have a first round like that this year.

There are a ton of Blue Chippers, high end talent, So I'm really excited for the first round. I'm also excited for the depth because I do think we have that as well. We're not sacrificing one for the other. Like everything, it's one. You know, you look at position by position. Some positions are more or deeper than others. I'm convinced wide receiver is going to be deep.

Of our lives.

Yeah, yeah, everybody.

You know, the top tier athletes in high school and coming up, they want the ball in their hands, right, and we see that seven on seven, we see that college and so I'm convinced wide receiver depth is going to be strong, you know forever after that. You know, this is a quarterback heavy draft. We know that offensive line I think is really strong. This is an offensive tackle first round. Yeah, and this is what we expected.

I think there were not eight or nine in that initial top fifty.

That's kind of how it's played out with the amount of tackles that we could see going in the first round.

So I do think there's a drop off at the position.

But if you're looking for a tackle, if you're looking for offensive line, somewhere in the top fifty sixty picks, there's gonna be a guy for you, Dane.

When we're all going to like stack our boards at the end of this, so we're going to come up with You know, we always get the questions asked to us, how many first round grades you have.

I know we've got all star games.

I know we've got combined, I know we got medicals that we've got to deal with too, because there's some guys that have some medical questions. But in your mind, you have as you've done some of your early studies, and i'd say early, you've been doing this since May.

But do you have a.

Number where you think you're first round cut off is gonna be? Is the is it a twenty two, a twenty three, is it a nineteen? You have an idea where that number is on your cutoff.

It's probably gonna be around twenty five for me.

Okay, so this thing's gonna go pretty deep. Yeah, there you go.

Like I said, I think this is a first round where you in some years you don't really want a top ten pick because right you know you're you're not getting a Blue Chipper necessarily. This year, I think you are. Plus, I think it's gonna stretch there you go where the Cowboys around that range of the Cowboys were picking. So it'll be interesting as we go through the process if

That's that's a big one.

You know, all these guys have something that it could change how we feel about them throughout the process. But like I said, I think this is going to be a stacked first round and that's good news for the Cowboys with where they're going to be picking.

In your in your two round mock draft that you did just here recently, you gave them Tyler Geiiton from Oklahoma, the offensive tackle. I think the premise that you had of the offensive tackle with the Tyron Smith is something we talk about on our various shows, and I know Zach and I talk about on the radio all the time. Was there was guiding the guy all the way there

I think the draft process is going to help us figure out what those stacks, how the stack's gonna look, because these guys are all I think, pretty close together

He did in this game.

Yeah, and you know when you're referencing that game, which is gonna be it.

Was over a year ago.

Like that kind of tells you how little football he's played. But the length that he plays, with the movement skills, it's it's on real. So but Geiden kind of.

Along those same lines. He's a freaky guy.

Yes, you he's not the most polished, but you see him move out there and you get excited. And he was a right tackle at Oklahoma. You know it wasn't He doesn't have perfect tape by any means. He's not the most polished player, but that's why you might be able to get him where you get him. So this is offensive tackle class that I think there's gonna be a lot of guys ranked pretty closely and every team depending on what scheme you run.

If you're looking for more of.

A run block and more of a pass protector, you're gonna rank them maybe a little bit different.

I think I thought your reasoning was excellent though. Why you put the player there, Well, sometimes sometimes you look at you go, he's just a n s he Sometimes you get mock drafters that are forcing players in positions because they have to get him off their you know, they have to get him off the list. I go, you know, I don't want to miss not having this guy on, you know, and you feel like you put him too deep in the draft.

Well, I thought it was the same thing with Jonathan Brooks in the second round. And we've talked a lot about the running back class and last year it was deep and I was very surprised that the Cowboys waited until the sixth round to take duce Vaughn. This year with Jonathan Brooks, I think the only hesitation is the injury right with the ACL Otherwise he's probably the top back in this class.

But I wonder how you look.

At the depth if the Cowboys waited, and they probably would need to pick up some extra picks. Maybe the compis help with that. But guys like Jalen Wright from Tennessee I think has really kind of caught my I. Ray Davis is a fantastic story out of Kentucky. Schrader is a player that we've talked about from a Zoo. Also a fantastic story. D two to first team All

There might not be a running back drafted top fifty this year, and that'd be only the second time ever in the history of the league that we didn't have a running back drafted that high. So but once get where the Cowboys are picking in the second round, third round, fourth round, I think that's pretty good area for where these running backs that come off the board. And this is another position where there's no consensus running back one. Brooks still has a shot to be that first running

He'll be here. Jordan Travis, the Florida State quarterback. Same thing.

But yeah's audrec estimate is from Notre Dame Braylan Allen from Wisconsin.

All these guys offer something a little bit different.

Bucky Irving from Oregon's a different type of back Jalen Right, who you mentioned he might be one of the fastest players in this explosive Yeah, I mean he was a one hundred meter state champ being back in high school in North Carolina. So he reminds me a lot of Droom forward with the Browns, who He's got contact, balance, he's got speed, some other things, you know, some of the pacing, the tempo you have to worry about a

Is it going to be a run? Is it going to be a run? Do you feel like in that I mean, is it going to be Sometimes we see the run with those corners where all of a sudden, it's like, yeah, Dane looks up, goes okay, here we go, you know, and it's.

Bam bam, bam bam.

They tight last year.

Yeah, they start hitting all these guys and we're all and we're going into it thinking there's going to be a run. If there's not one in the top fifty, could there be that run? That you have to You have to know when it's going to start and be in the middle of it if you want one of these guys that.

Might have happened to the Cowboys last year with the run we saw in the third tyjer Spears comes off, Kendrey Miller comes off the.

Board, Charbona Right, So this this Drenth.

Is similar to last year, except there's no Gibbs or Bijon at the top, right. But in terms of that third round range, we're gonna see a lot of these guys come off the board. And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at allf we see you know, Blake Koram from Michigan, who I think is gonna run great. He's got he's had a lot of carries on him and he's still a good player. And when you're talking about late third round, you know, like that's that's good value for a player

I've got Korm going to the Chargers already, so.

That that would be fun.

I'm with you as far as Day two these backs looking really good. I think there's a couple of those Day two backs that could really pop as far as getting onto an NFL team, getting on the field as a rookie and being able to contribute. There's even some Day three guys that I really like to you. Look at Jawar Jordan out of Louisville and he's like that downhill guy that you can trust on a third down, you could trust to get those short yardage type opportunities.

Isn't it funny how we started with broad strokes of the NFL draft and we've all started kind of going right back into offensive line and running back, trying to fix the run game and trying to gain three yards on third and two to try and move the chains.

It's kind of that's where the focus has been.

And you brought up the tackle and having Oklahoma tackle taken in that mock draft with Tyler Guyden. In the early parts of your mocks, you.

Weren't the only one to put an offensive.

Tackle to Dallas. So the draft, uh mock drafts from Daniel Jeremiah Jeremiah and mel Kiper both going with Jordan Morgan at the offensive tackle spot out of Arizona. I think you had him at twenty had a pretty close Is this kind of where we're headed? Is is it offensive line heavy? Is that just because of where where the draft is or is that because of where the Cowboys are specifically.

Well, it's the strength of the first round, and we might see that run on these guys starting the teams.

You know, it's if you don't have an.

Offensive tackle and you need one, you better get him early, because I don't think this is a position. You look at the second round tackles and kind of slim pickens. You know, you don't not a lot of guys you get really excited about. So if you need that tackle, you really want to come away from this draft with an offensive tackle, you better take him in the first round.

So we'll see when that run starts. Jordan Morgan's a good player.

Oh yeah.

You know he's a guard on some teams boards, which is interesting because you know he is a only played left tackle at Arizona, right, But you know, some of the range stuff not perfect. We saw that against Braylen Trice the Washington Defensive Event in that matchup one on one. But he's a good player and if he would have came out last year, he would have been somewhere in the top sixty seventy five picks, but.

Yeah, he's He's in that first round.

Mix.

Fuaga from Moregan State probably the best run blocking offensive tackle in this class. He's also a guy's guard for some teams. So love to see how the Cowboys feel about these guys.

A question I have for you is as far as where you're looking for a seamless transition from Tyron Smith to whoever.

Would be his his what's the word apparent?

There you go a tack.

If you're looking for a guy that has that length, has that kind of mobility and being able to move from left tackle, is Tyler gotten that best fit for you? I mean, you look at the length that he has and being able to kind of have that punch power as well.

It kind of reminds you of a.

Young Tyrant in some ways, There's no doubt.

And you know, on my podcast on the Athletic Prospects of Pros, we had Jim Naggi on yesterday and I asked him straight up if I went into a time machine and went to April and then came back and I told you, Hey, Tyler Goeitton was the first player drafted from the Senior Bowl this year. What would your response be? And he said, I think you got it right.

A polished player per se.

He didn't play left tackle lit Oklahoma, so there's a projection there as well. But when you look at the traits, those are the traits you want to bet on in that position.

Where do you fall in these centers? As you look at these centers?

Because I know Cowboy fans right now are watching this, and if you're a fan of another team, welcome. We talk about all your players, so you know you'll learn. But as far as Cowboy fans, you know, we were thinking about what's going on with Tyler Biattish here and maybe how you can improve the running game. Where do you fall in these centers right now?

Well, I might have gone with a center to Dallas and my first ron mock if Jackson's powers Johnson was still on the board.

He took him to Miami before exactly which and that was one of my favorite I threw a pin when you did it.

That was one of my favorite fits in that entire fea.

I threw a.

He's a really good player, and he's a young player. You know, he just heard twenty one years old, literally like this past week. But watch when you watch his film from this year showed me the bad date. I'm still looking, can't.

Find it anywhere.

He's he was a multi athlete growing up. You know, he's a big time baseball player, basketball, did everything. And then at some point during high school it was like all right, yeah, I'm pretty good.

This football thing.

Goes to Oregon, played guard as a sophomore, and then this past year's junior was outstanding at center, won their Remington. You look at the size, you like the movement skills, you look at the strength that he plays with the technique. Some of the technique stuff still developing, but he's really far along for a guy that's a first year starter. So first round I think is not too early for him. Him and then even you know Graham Barton from Duke, who we expect to make that move inside the center,

And the injuries.

Yeah, right after Thanksgiving around there. Had had an mcl that was working through through parts of the year. But he's a really quality player that could end up in the first round, and I think a lot of teams will have him as a center on their draft board by the time we get to draft weekend.

But this is a pretty good center group.

Man Zach Fraser from West Virginia as a future NFL starter, He's probably somewhere in that second round. Cedric van Prant is Okay, I'm not I'm not the biggest fan of his. I think he's more probably more of a fourth.

Round guy in my opinion.

But even after around that same reign, you know Bo Limmer from from Arkansas. Sure, he's a guy that I think he deserves more love. He's in that kind of similar tier as Cedric Van Prant.

So this is.

It a tough group overall though, because to me, that's where I.

Think, you know, you're looking at the Cowboys, you got tough players but you know, look what's going on in Detroit right now with their center and how with right now and how they and how they play, and if you have that tough guy in the middle. I think these guys do have all those traits that you when you start to talk about tought I you need you need him.

Yet one there's strac one for zach Walchuk in the draft process. We will keep track almost was.

That you got to hit the button there he turned it off. Somebody else make a point, you know here the radio.

We can go straight into the We're all right. But yeah, no, Barton was one of the nastiest alignment when I was watching, because that's what you're looking for, the physicality, the grit, the toughness. Barton stands down that way. I think he might be one of those guys. And the medical stuff with him, is that a concern.

It's something that yeah, you hope as a scout you you don't pay attention to that stuff as much. You just right down, here are the injuries and then you cross your fingers when you get the medical report back from after the combine. Just yeah, one day you walk into the war room. I mean, his name's taken off.

The Yeah, you're just He's exactly right. You're at the mercy of these doctors. Sometimes you just scout the player and hope for the best.

You really really do.

In Bart, but you're absolutely right.

He's so stubborn with his hands, the tenasty plays with. That's what everybody wants for an identity on their offensive line.

So yeah, I mean you want a tough guy. Zach Frasier. What it was against.

Baylor when he broke his leg late in the season and he's literally crawling off the field fourth quarter, final few minutes, so his team doesn't get a penalty for because they ride timeouts and he was injured.

I mean, dude has a broken leg.

So yeah, toughness is not a worry when you talk about the top three or four centers in this class.

So we've got plenty more to come throughout the episode with Dan Brugler. But when we come back, we're gonna have Nick Harris and Dan Brugler debate why they like and don't like Cedric van Pran and the seniors.

You brought up.

Cedric van Prant specifically, but we are going to preview Senior Bowl products and then we'll have these two fight it out when we I'm back here on the draft show.

I'm Dak Prescott, quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, and they snapped the.

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He is the Dallascowboys dot Com Draft Show.

Welcome back into the Draft Show, presented by Miller Light Taste. You can depend on. This segment is brought to you by your Texas Ford Dealers. Ford is the best in Texas. All right, We've got a Senior Bowl preview, a Shrine Bowl preview coming up in our next segment. Dame Brugler is in the building today from the Athletic Nick Harris Brian brought us Zach Wolchuck. I'm Kyle Jewmens. All right, let's take a look at the Senior Bowl. You mentioned

You can certainly make the argument a tackle like we've been talking about because Tyler Guitan's on the roster, Fuaga or b Yu left tackle.

I'm still working on saying his name.

Sue.

There you go, there, you go, exactly what it's gonna be the.

Rest of the way.

Now, thanks, Now I'm gonna say that.

Maybe he'll help you.

You know, all right, if you say it on the NFL network, you have to do.

You have to quote Brian Come on, man, ten years of working with us here, you know it gets off the rails. Tackle.

That's definitely gonna be one.

I mean, quarterbacks always drive the conversation, right, uh, Bo Nicks and Michael Panics will both be there. That will be a fun matchup. Box certainly has a chance to go.

Are they on the same team, Yes.

Which is great because see him back to back practice.

Maggie knows what he's doing. Yeah, Reivers, So yeah, you.

Know, I think it'll be.

It was funny when I was doing my mock, you know, because a mock is never what I my rankings, right, you know, I send.

Make your last one the best one, right, But I.

Mean I send it around to you know, my contacts in the league, and hey, is this about the range you think.

He's gonna go what do you think about this?

And this?

And with it came to bon Nicks. The wide range of where he might go was crazy.

It was like some thought third round, some thought, oh, I think he's going top twenty five. So there is a wide range of opinions on bone Knicks. And the Singer Bowl week will be really important, I think for him. And it's kind of strange to say about a five year starter in college football guy that has a ton of tape, but just to see him throw live, and especially going head to head with with Michael Pennix, it'll be important for him a strong week.

Can I can I throw a name out who he reminds me of? Yeah, you got Hinden Hooker.

Okay, interesting, Oh the.

Way he kind of can move around and the way he can launch that thing. It just kind of was I just had that Hinden Hooker vibe to him, with his ability to throw the way he throws the football, that he's got, the kind of the measurables and the mobility and then you know, with the arm talent and stuff like that. I was just thinking, I mean, I mean, sometimes like you hold the ball a little long there, but man, he makes this kid makes a lot of places.

He it's amazing.

At Auburn, he was awful. Yeah, he was a terrible football player at Auburn. I appreciate him when LSU played Auburn and he was quarterback because I knew some bad things weren to happen and then for them, you know. And but he goes to Oregon. They work with him, the mechanics and all that. The way he plays. I mean you could see him working defenses and stuff, you know, with his eyes and how he can move people around and stuff. He has become so much of a better thrower of the football than he was.

At organ reinventing yourself as a quarterback to you know, all he knew growing up was SEC football.

Yeah he was his dad. His dad was a fine player at Auburn.

As we so to go through that adversity and then reinvent yourself at a new place, you know, you give him a lot of credit for that. I the one thing that kind of bothered me about him was that offense, I thought, because I mean, you're right, there were some examples where he would use his eyes and stuff, but I think the offense it made things so simple for him in terms of where to go with the football. He had one of the quickest times to throw in

To that point really quick because receivers had more yack than anybody.

Oh yeah, exactly right, and.

That boom boom boom and then try to get him over the top with you know, that was the offense. And hey, it worked out for him, excepting Ainst Washington, but it worked out for him in the last I mean, he had more touchdowns this year than anybody else. You have fifty one total touchdowns, and he can he has some mobility to him. That's a part of his game as well. So he's a really interesting player. It's funny I at the Hendon Hooker comp I was kind of making with Michael Pennix.

Yeah, because you have the medicals there. That's a factor.

Yeah, you know, just coming from those those offenses where you have some pretty good receivers are throwing.

To interesting arm angles.

Right older players.

So yeah, I mean with Penix, just to see him throw, I have a third round grade on him. And it's funny how draft narratives work. How good he was against Texas.

Yeah, and I mean just think about think about it.

They say quinn Ewers connects on that throw to Mitchell and Texas wins that game. Season over for Michael Pennix.

But he ends on that note.

Think about how differently people would think of him based off of then how he played against Michigan, which is the best defense he's ever faced in his life, the closest thing to an NFL defense he's ever faced. It's it's just funny how dropt narratives work, because it would be so the conversation where Michael Pennox would be so different if they lost that game against Texas.

I know this Indiana football has not been the same since he left.

No, Indiana had the same thing. Klen de Bor too, Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. I mean that's that's the thing about it is.

I think there is a I think there's an it factor about Michael Pennock.

There is, I do.

I think there is something about him, the number of starts he's.

Made, the big games he had the Michigan game. We give Michigan a lot of credit.

Mentor did a great job the defensive coordiner at Michigan making him have some different looks in that football game.

You're going to see that every Sunday.

And I know, I know, I know.

It felt like every time he would get the snap, he was thinking about that rush. Yeah, he was all right, where's it coming from?

I don't know the right tackle was breaking down in that that that Michigan game.

I don't know how he hold front it was. It was just hard for him to do.

And I'm not making excuses for the kid, but man, it is those very much like you're watching, you know, with our kid from Ohio State that's now down at the with the Texans Stroud Stroud and watching him play with those pro wide receivers you know, at Ohio State and play that Georgia game. You're watching Pennis play with pro receivers and you're thinking, man, this is what he can do with with those type of receivers those That's that was encouraging to me. That really was encouraging me.

Absolutely nature of the positions and some of the smartest people I know in the NFL.

The Packers are wrong about quarterbacks.

They seem to nail it as soon as you walk into that building.

It's just that did not rub off of me at all when I was working there. So I know what, I know what the problem is there. But yeah, I I do.

I mean, like I said, I I don't think Pennix is a first round quarterback. I don't, but man, I the guy.

Is a winner, and he's and he's everywhere he's been and deep ball the dB, you.

Can make the argument he's the best de ball throw in the draft.

Really absolutely, with the way he chucks me. He's so aggressive. He knew he had pro receivers that he was starting to.

That's what I'm saying.

I mean to me, that's I'm watching these guys when they play, these quarterbacks and the and I'm thinking, well, this could translate because he's already playing with pro receivers, you know, I mean, he's putting the ball. It's not like these guys are having to work a ton, you know, but that you know, But.

It was Rodney Jalen Polk and Jayalen McMillan is a I love that he's a good player.

The one thing that I'm looking at, though, is if you look at the way that quarterbacks have been overvalued in recent drafts, and you look at Kenny Pickett late first round, twenty third overall when he was taken by Pittsburgh.

You look at Will Levis.

He didn't go in the first, but he was very early in the second. If you're comparing Michael Pennix to those two guys, which are recent prospects, I think he's.

Better than both of those guys.

Great interesting, and I will have them him most likely in final grades. Of course aren't here yet, but whenever I've got him graded out, I will most likely have him higher than both of those guys. And so if that's the case, then you might see a team take a flyer on him.

Late in the first The biggest myth in the draft process is there's a consensus quarterback board somewhere that everybody's working on.

Every single board, especially.

At quarterbacks, look so different team to team with what they value what they're looking for. You know, like in this perfect example, you and I to me, there's a huge gap between Will Levis and Michael Pennox.

In my opinion, I don't. I don't.

I liked Will Levis more than I like Michael Pennox. That's just that's my op And I think the two playoff games with Penix was a good example. I thought, how he played against a very vanilla Texas defense, show what he can do. And that's an NFL quarterback right there. Against Michigan, which is closer to what NFL defenses are going to throw it on weekend week out, he missed open reads.

The accuracy wasn't on point.

I think, you know, a lot of people watch the Oregon games and then the playoff games of Penix, but watch him against Arizona State and Utah and some of these other defenses that really gave him trouble. And I don't know, I struggle with Penix quite a bit. And that doesn't even in factor in the medicals older guy, you know, so someone.

That's gonna knock him as his age in the medicals, those are two See. I think people go to Indy yeah and completely be knocked.

But I feel like that people with the age, it doesn't bother them. For this reason, I think people are the liking the fact that these quarterbacks are making more starts.

You know that we've gone away.

From uperiend, you know, wheel to ourselves.

Yeah, we've gone away from the Okay, well, Mitch Trubisky only started ten games. Now he's the third overall pick, and you know, and then you look at Brock Perdy, who started a million games, but he's mister irrelevant. And now people are looking at experience and starts as a positive and not as a negative.

You know, I felt like, oh, he was an older guy and all.

You always used to hear that, but then now these guys are you know, the guys are getting thrown into the game so much earlier in their career.

Yes, and he starts bo Nick's had in his college.

Girl fifty something.

I'm sure with a fifty three.

There you go.

Yeah, it seemed like you played LSU a lot. Again, I appreciate that.

And he was forty three and eighteen over those So even though like at Auburn, three years at Auburn weren't perfect, No they were were, He's still won some game.

He won gauge and.

You're absolutely right about that. But let me ask you this real quick. The thing with is Caleb Williams. The scrutiny on the quarterback? What what? What are people going to scrutinize the most about him? When you and if you had to, Because I love I love Jalen Daniels as well, my l Shues, my Jaden Daniels, my lsu Gout, I love him, but people are going to scrutinize how thin he looks. Yeah, he's you know, especially with what's happened to the poor kid at Carolina, you know, and how.

At least he's sixty three.

Yeah, but two five he made and he takes some wicked hits and he hits up. He's tough and all that. But what's going to be the scrutiny for Caleb Williams?

Why?

Why are people going to poke holes in him? Because I watch his tape and I'm like thinking, Skeltic's for real deal for me.

Yeah, and I think he'll probably end up as my number one player in the draft. I mean, he is the clear favorite to go number one. When you look at the Notre Dame game, certainly that was not a great game for him on the road against a very good defense. If we're gonna ding Michael Pennox for how he played against Michigan, r ding Caleb Williams, the way he played against Notre Dame, the off field stuff.

I don't think it's as much.

Of a factor as a lot of people want to make it. You know, doing GQ articles and painting his nails and just being a little bit different is not like the worst thing in the world. Uh, certainly not as bad as some people make it out to be. You know, the crying in the stands with his mom like shows me the guy.

Cares, Yeah, like I don't.

I'm confused by the criticism of that one. At the end of the day, is he going to win you football games? That's what it's going to come down to. And I think the the goal of picking a quarterback in the top ten should not be defined a next Patrick Mahomes Andrew Luck that that's not it's not realistic. You put too much pressure on these guys to be that guy. The expectation or the goal of drafting quarterback in the top ten is can he be an NFL

That's all you need. If you have a guy.

That's a top ten quarterback in the NFL, you've got a chance, you know, because you're going to get into the dance. And then once you do, it's game by game by game, and anybody can win those games. So I think Kayleb Williams, I think Drake May and I would throw Jay and Daniels in there as guys that you can at least understand how a team will look at them and say, yeah, he had there's a trajectory of him becoming a top ten quarterback in league.

Is there a chance that Daniels is the second quarterback taken?

He could go one?

I mean, look, what would just say about these there's no consensus, you know, all it takes is one team to I do think the odds are low that he would go one, a little bit higher than to go two. But I think the odds would be he's going to be the third quarterback drafted. But you know, we have a brand new regime in Washington. Who knows how they haven't hired a head coach yet. You know, it's who knows how they're going to view that quarterback position.

Maybe they are.

Going for because Drake may is a really talented guy. But down the stretch, you watched the Clemson tate the NC State worries you a little bit. Some of the decision making now part of it is. And you could say the same thing with Caleb. He felt like he had to put the superhero cape on and do it all himself because he just wasn't getting a ton of help. But still they're young players working through their mistakes. Jane

So I'm a big believer.

They won ten games because of him.

Oh no, he was the reason why they played bad defense.

They were historically bad defense.

They won ten games because him, and if you if you dig him for anything else, just remember that he was the one reason why they won ten games.

I'm a big believer in when you scout players, bank on explosive plays. I think those translate with Jane Daniels. He accounted for ninety plays of twenty plus yards this year. To put that number in perspective, Joe Burrow his hei's been winning season, National title winning season a couple years ago.

He had eighty seven and he did that in fifteen games. Jane Daniels had ninety and.

Twelve games with Jamar Chase and just yeah, to.

That point, I mean, neighbors is neighbors and Thomas are pretty good.

He's a top five pick.

Neighbors Neighbors, Yeah, Brian Thomas.

I think if he ends up being a top twelve pick, yeah, surprise me at all.

He is that type of talent.

Neighbors that's rare.

Yeah, So you know, I do think he had plenty of help. But the name that comes up when you talk about Jane Daniels with teams is Lamar Jackson. Cool, And it's not a apples apples comparison necessarily, But defenses have to gain plan for you for Jane Daniels the same way they have to gain plan for Lamar Jackson escape because he is legit. With his leg he can beat you from the pocket. Still, some processing things that I think he's still developing at, but he advanced that the advancement.

He made this year as a passer was really impressive.

So yeah, and there's no doubt again the offensive line played really well this year. He had the two first round receivers and then even the guys that went back, those guys are getting drafted next year for eelas year receiver. So he's he had a lot of talent around him. But a credit to Jayan and Daniels for really taking advantage of that.

I think he got him dead on right. Yep.

A couple of really interesting quarterback conversations already. Then we're not even to the All Star Games, so there's gonna be a lot of eyes on the guys that are in the Senior Bowl, that are in the Shrine Bowl, and then you get into the Combine and guys that will throw in Indianapolis that'll go a long way as well. Kind Of shifting to the defensive side before we take our second break, Nick, whenever you look at this Senior Bowl roster, are there any defensive players that we should keep.

Our eye on?

Whenever you go in.

Yeah, I'm really excited to see a few of them next week in Mobile. I want to start with Kenyon Mitchell. I believe that's how you say his name out of Toledo the corner. Really excited to see what he puts on the field next week. He's a guy that you see in the late first round, you see early second round. He's a guy I'm really excited to see Ennis Rakestraw. We talked about him a little bit last week. Another

I mean he's a hard hitter, he's aggressive.

If you're looking out of Miami, Miami, if you're looking for a guy that kind of fits the Cowboys mold of safeties of the past as far as hard hitters, really aggressive. Might give up the big play here and there, but he's gonna be able to make some plays in the front end and be able to kind of lay his hat down on some few occasions.

Cameron Kitchens is that guy we talked about just Doublon.

Grave By saying he gives a big play.

Yeah, watch the Cowboys, watch.

The North Carolina tape.

I think that is a good example of the good and the bad with him because he will.

Give up some plays, but he will make some plays as well.

And he's a good example of juniors now being eligible for these All Star games, and he's a guy taking advantage of that. You know, a lot of juniors are saying, you know, I put enough on tape.

I'm coming out, but I don't need an All Star game.

Kitchens got the Senior Bowl invite, and most grades on Kitchens are right around that third round from scouts.

He wants to get into the second.

He wants to be a top fifty guy and going to the Senior Bowl is a great opportunity for him to do that. A big question will be, you know, how fast is he run? Does he really have the top tier athleticism to cover both sidelines? If he's going to be playing a center field type of safety role is he you know, can he play a post safety?

What kind of safety is he? What kind of athlete is he?

So this week at the Senior Bowl will or next week at the Senior Bowl and Mobile will be a big opportunity for him.

What about the wake Forest kid? Is it Mustapia?

Is that he's a safety?

Malik Mustapia.

I had a scout tell me about him and the words I say, they used to safety from Forest and the guy said, he's an active, tough, physical, fun to watch player. So I mean he I said, give me a name of a guy and he is there? Day any thought about that at all?

Or am I?

No?

No?

I think he's right now.

He's in the middle rounds, I think, you know, but a guy that's trying to get into that top one hundred.

Yes, I asked for some under the radar kind of guys.

Yeah, he's not the I mean he's he gave me then.

Him Jalen Simpson from.

All the kind of like that safety linebacker hybrid side Jalen Simpson. I think he could really start to jump up whenever you look at what he can do from a flex positional standpoint.

And that's a good riser because yeah, he was PFA coming to the year and then started picking off passes this year for Auburn and put himself into that draft.

Right.

Yeah, the ball skills guy. That's what they were saying about this kids. Did you want to add something on Kitchens at the end there.

Speaking of safeties and guys that I think probably won't test well. Combine, it would be kind of interesting to kind of see how their process goes. Javon Bullard, I think that's another one out of Georgia that that's.

Your guy, right.

Yeah, I just don't think he's gonna test big guy. I don't think he's gonna test well. That's the one thing that I think I will be a little bit concerning coming out of comment. I'm with you, Zach. I'm with you, Zach. I think he's a good player.

We had the same talk with Winfield Junior when he came out.

I don't care. I'm still win Winfield Junior. I got you.

That's a that's a great shout out, because I that's the question. Is he going to run and test well enough to go in the top fifty picks?

But man, he will hit you. He will.

He's so aggressive with the way he plays the angles that he takes, and he's smart. I mean you can tell that he is, you know, really anticipating what the offense is doing, based off of formation, based off of tendencies, and puts himself in a position to make plays. So, yeah, Bullard is a This safety class overall is probably don't have a first round safety. I don't think, but you know, how does it? Tyler Nuban from Minnesota.

And NUVID is I think really good, no doubt.

Big fan of Duban. I one of my favorite safeties this year is Jadon Hicks Washington State.

That guy there you go on now now we're talking sixty three two ten, Nah, you tell me about him, let's go.

But yeah, he had one of Michael Pennix's then throw a ton of interceptions.

No, this guy one of them. Yeah.

Watching Wisconsin tape and watch him just lay out dudes over the middle, watch him cover.

Uh.

He is a lot of fun. He'll be at the Senior Bowl as well.

If you want a smart football player, Tyler Nuban is that guy for me. I mean you see him lining up, yeah, you can see. You can see him lining up in single high instances. You see him even coming up and lining up on the line and like third down and short situations. He's I said it. I think last week. I think he's the best run defending safety in this class. Yeah, he's He's incredible.

How we feel about Peyton Wilson and C State. I watched him, man and that dude you talk about intelligence instincts all around the football medicals, I mean medical.

You missed it. We had a whole Peyton Wilson mark on that show.

Like this guy's all over the damn field.

Yeah he was four hundred tackles him.

Or Eikenberg from Ohio State? Which one?

It comes down to the medicals? It does because he.

He used to be so good at this.

I think Will Slivers a little better than Iickenberg.

I think, oh yeah, no doubt. I think so too. Wilson literally has double digit surgeries.

Yeah, that's the problem. Double That's what happens when you have four hundred tackles. Yeah, you're gonna get banged up a little bit.

In the And the question is, Okay, I see a guy that you know is going to be fine riders contract?

Is he you know?

Like that's that's He's gonna be a tough one for the doctors to really figure out. But you guys, I mean you're all over him. He's a really fun player.

Before we go to break the six foot trotter.

Come on, man, I see him in first srown mocks and I'm like, I don't see it.

I think it's like a second third. I think third round guy. Is it because of his height?

I don't think he's the type of athlete. I mean, in nineteen ninety seven he's a first round pick. Yeah, you know that's but in today's.

Quand Smith's making a lot of plays with the Ravens. Let me just say that he.

Could run and he can make plays in the sideline trotter. I just don't know if he's that type of athlete, and I don't I don't trust him in space necessarily.

Just called your gush slow.

He did call my guy, called him not blazing facts.

I love the drafted his dad. Yeah, and he's got some toughness like his dad. Do you watch Yeah?

Yeah, Cedric Gray, North Carolina. Eve check him out?

No, I need that's he's taller.

Check out?

Is that dude?

Singer Bowl guy as well?

So that'll be fun next Well, in the top Shrine guy this year, it might be the top linebacker drafted, Edwin Cooper from.

Yeah, so let's talk about him.

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Is the Dallascowboys dot Com Draft Show show presented by Miller Lite Taste you Can depend on. The ninety ninth annual East West Shrine Bowl will feature one hundred and thirty of the nation's top NFL prospects on Thursday, February first, at the start in Frisco. Tickets as low as twenty dollars are available now at Shrinebowl dot Com. Proceeds benefit Shriner's Children's Welcome Back in Dame Brugler.

Nick Harris, Brian brought us.

And we've got Zach Wilchuck. I'm Kyle Yeomens all right. Shrine Bowl preview. We just talked about it. One hundred and thirty of the nation's top NFL draft prospects coming to Frisco. Practices get underway on Saturday for practices right, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, right, four straight days of practice and we'll be right across the hall, so we'll have an opportunity.

It's the way of that we know.

They it's not public anymore. It's so they don't really tell us.

I'm sure because most everyone's coming in and I think they're doing them separately anyways, Its just by position and to everybody at once.

So I think those are probably Saturday.

Then, Okay, so I actually know how big these guys are.

Yeah, right, official measurements. I know Fridays when interviews start.

So I'm excited to sit down with something. A lot of these guys ask some questions.

That's such an invaluable part of my process, just getting one on one time with these guys. So that yeah, it starts tomorrow Friday.

And Senior Bowl doesn't do public weigh ins either since COVID right right, that's just done away with it.

Why is it?

I'm just curious, if you know, I think.

Some people believe it's kind of an antiquated way of doing things. You know, making these guys try to cross the stage in the short you know, and staying on a scale.

And hundreds of media members. Yeah, scouts, if you're.

An evaluator, there's value in understanding of player's body type and just okay, muscle definition, is there room dead muscle?

Things like that.

But at the same time, we don't need to make it as much of a spectacle as we've done the Okay.

That's interesting Now with this group of senior or Shrine Bowl participants and the juniors being able to play in these all star games, do you feel like there's an uptick in the roster this year compared to years past and the way that this Bowl Game has been represented.

Yeah, I think that the juniors certainly helped that.

You know.

One of the keeping with the Miami theme, on the Miami defense theme, one of the juniors that I can't wait to see is Leonard Taylor, defensive tackle, former five star guy, right, I mean, he was big time coming out of high school.

And where to go to high school? The first he is explosive off the snatch.

The flashes are first round, but the body of work not there, and so it's like he I will bet He is the most interviewed player this week at the Shrine bol trying to figure out why, trying to figure out what makes him tick? Yeah, how much does he love football? Is this some thing that he's you know, because he has potential? Does he have that you know, intensity, that fire within him that he's going to reach out potential?

I mentioned it had been in the last show about Leonard Taylor. He was a guy that, like, for me, I wanted to stay away from because I've seen these types before, the five star, the guy who was from the very moment he stepped on a high school field had everything he ever needed. Yeah, stayed home, went to Miami.

That he and and he does. When Brian watched him, he'll be like he's on the ground a lot.

Yeah he is, and you're front on the ground. I hate that. Yeah, Well, and he's a guy if you're a clapper as a defensive back. Because I agree with one hundred.

Percent of what you guys are saying. But at a certain point, it's like, okay, where are we okay drafting him? Because if he's still around in the late fourth round, is at a point where we're like, okay, we'll take a swing on this guy, and you know if we miss right, and so at what point do we feel comfortable drafting him? That's part of this fact finding mission of these All Star games when you interview him and I'm glad he's going to be here to you know, kind of answer some of those questions.

Where would you feel comfortable sliding him in if you had to put a grade on him early?

You know, if I did a three round Monck draft, you wouldn't be in there. I think somewhere early day three is where you start to have those conversations about Okay, at some point this potential is worth us, you know, throwing a Day three pick out.

So we're going to open our Day three broadcast and we're going to talk about the names, and he's going to be one of those names, isn't it.

Remember?

But you know what all it takes is one team. We've seen traits guys.

Yeah, oh no, we have that we thought, And so if he sneaks into the Day two I don't think it'd be completely shocking based off of again those flashes that he has. But this is where the process that starts for him to prove himself and to convince teams, hey I'm worth that gamble.

What do you know about this cornerback from the CFL Stiggers, Yeah.

This is a story I wanted to bring up. This is a very very interesting one. So this kid Kwantes Stiggers, he you college, right, So he played at I'll start with the high school day. So he started at this prep academy in Atlanta, the best academy. It's basically like a private type ordeal. The best I could find. Couldn't even really find much about this school. Played there, ended up on an HBCU scholarship to Lane College in Tennessee D two program. Was only there, I believe half a semester.

He broke his spine.

He's got three other siblings and a single mom now who had lost lost her husband. So he was supporting for the family and the mom. One day signed him up for a tryout for the Fan Controlled Football League in Atlanta, and it's the seven on seven fan control Football You've probably seen it in some areas.

He goes there and he balls out.

Thatches the attention of the offensive coordinator for the Toronto Argonauts in CFL. They say, hey, you know, come up to Toronto. Let's try you out in this open tryout ordeal. You know, see if you can maybe get a camp invite. He gets a camp invite, He goes to camp, and the staffers at Toronto said, by day two he was separating himself from the rookies.

Yeah, we're there.

Wow.

Ended up starting as a corner on the Toronto Argonauts in the CFL, so made the team, goes up there and then wins the CFL Rookie of the Year five interceptions, fifty six tackles this past season.

Really fun story. He's going to be at the Shrine Bowl this week.

The NFL sent out a memo a couple of weeks ago about him, saying that he's eligible to be drafted. About half of the gms have already reached out to his representation about him, and he'll have a pro dain in Atlanta around the same time as Georgia and Georgia Tech. That's going to be really big for him because there's just so many unknowns because he didn't play college football. But he wins the Rookie of the Year in the CFL and he's able to pick up all these different

He has a big week this week at shrinebol that could even rise.

I watched him play Hamilton Tiger Cats. Yeah, the Hamilton Tiger Cats. My man had an interception the game, but one handed interception this game. Uh, he could play left or right corner. He's got ball skills. I mentioned the interception.

Uh.

He plays a lot of own in the CFL, so you see him play kind of sideways. But he's a he's a stocky guy and he and he's not afraid to tackle. I mean there were a couple of times where ball the the you know, the receiver caught the ball from and he's driving on the ball. He does have quickness and when they break inside on him, he can chase and trail. I had two scouts tell me because I was saying, give me some they said, watch his kid from the CFL. So NFL teams are already there,

But other than that, everything about the movement, the way he ad just the way he stays with this guy, the way he drives tackles, there's a lot there was a lot of things that you just kind of going, oh, okay, I could see why people are talking about this kid. But again, I had two NFL guys say, hey, you need to check this CFL kid out, you know, And I'm like, that's why I asked, And I'm glad, you're glad you knew the story.

The corners coach for the Broncos, they asked him he played in the NFL for quite a bit, or corners coach for the Argonauts, he played for the Broncos quite a bit, and he said, this is a third fourth round guy for Yeah, but he's like, obviously there's gonna be a lot of questions and he's gonna have to fulfill a lot of things in the draft process, so it's probably a Day three type or deal.

But I mean, his Argonauts corners coach was giving him a co.

Sign I'll be interested to see how he plays in the one on ones and stuff, because again, you watch the CFL stuff, he's literally playing sideways. They're playing a lot of zone and their funnel and everything into the middle of the field if they can.

He's picking up those concept.

Yeah, exactly.

Yea fascinating.

You're right, you could.

You could go back and watch the YouTube grainy of him playing seven on seven.

Football with that that that league left.

Yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, I'm like, wait a minute, this guy played at Toronto. I get some Toronto tape.

Let go.

Yeah, that kind of thing.

It's it's a rare situation to see a guy that's already played pro football in an All Star game like this. But because he didn't play college, he is eligible for the draft. And Eric Galco, who uh the director of the Shrine Bowl, called me a few weeks ago and said, hey, get this guy in your radar because because.

I idn't really didn't know about him.

Yeah I don't.

I don't scout the CFL. That's not usually something I've had to worry about when it comes to the draft. But this guy is eligible, and yeah, he's he's a player, so he's got a shot.

That's awesome. I've never been so close to dropping an S bomb on here, like than saying holy blank because of that story.

I mean, that's an incredible story.

Oh yeah, And I mean it's only fitting that Dame Bruglu is here and we're talking about day three corners here before all.

Star Games even get going. Uh, but that's that's outstanding.

Is he gonna wear a Saskatchewan or not a Saskatchewan a Tornado helmet for.

The on the roster of Toronto argonaze YEA, so cool.

That's badass. That is awesome. It's a weird number. Forty two is what he wore during the during the season fighting Barry Churches, Anthony Henry.

There you go.

All right. We could do this for a whole hour, another hour. We could do it all day long. Actually could do it all day Yeah.

Yeah, you guys want to just keep going rolling.

We gotta we got it. We got a radio gig. We gotta go down, y'all, gotta get on the road.

Dane.

It's been so fun catching up with you.

Thank you so much. This is my pleasure. This is it feels like I never left right Yeah, So anytime.

Mission man, You haven't you've been on every year anytime.

Yeah, I take advantage of that opportunity and make sure you show.

Up at the combine for these guys and that you know, if you have the combine stuff.

And I'll be there for over a week.

Yeah, there we go.

That'll be fun. But we've got Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl, and then of course getting into the Combine stuff coming up, so we'll be in touch. We'll definitely hit you up on the phone line if we need to down the line. But Dan, if you haven't already subscribed to Dan on the Athletic, go and follow subscribe. It is worth your time. And the Beast isn't even here yet, and it's still worth your time to see all the mock drafts and the articles coming out. You can keep up with the

Nick Harris will be out in mobile. We'll get him on the phone lines.

We'll get you caught up on draft process here in twenty twenty four for Dan Brugler, Nick Harris, Brian brought us Zach Waltchuck Chris Beaman the back of Kyle Yemen saying so long, we'll see you next week on the Draft Show.

This has been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club

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