Draft Show: Trade Up/Trade Down?

round in Kansas City, Missouri. We are the Draft Show presented by Miller Lite, the official beer of the Dallas Cowboys, the only beer the Dallas Cowboys. It's Miller times. We're back here with Brian Broddis, Zach Wilchuck Ayesha Morrison. I'm Kyle Yeoman's nobody built today, but he will be back tomorrow. How's everybody doing? Oh Jesus well, because you you saw Penny, because you could have just said a month? Do you have to say to thunder? A month? It is flying by.

It's starting to get to crunch time here, it is. I'm watching players during the gbag nation now, nice, I'm just trying to fit in as many as I can. You weren't doing that before h no, I would like go home. And now now that we're a month, we're a month in, I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't sneak up on you. I don't want to get to day three. I gotta try crame as many as I can.

The other day, Brian, I was even sitting there and I was right in the draft magazine, as I know you have done plenty of times before, and I was sitting there. I was like, man, I'm talking about the NFL combine, and it feels like it was yesterday. It wasn't yesterday, that was three or four weeks ago, already like it's coming and going. I usually study one hundred and ninety guys. Oh no, I met one hundred and ninety guys right now, and I got a month month ago.

I just I got into a mode where they were just you know, they were they were able. You get the film and you just kind of go through them and you're getting a little bit of a rhythm and that, so, um, I understand being anxious. I think where I'm at now is I don't want to put one hundred and ninety

guys on a board. I just don't. It's very frustrating to me because I grew up in a system where we had one hundred and forty players, And when I came to the Cowboys in ninety nine and they asked me about this, like how many Larry lace Will my boss of the Cowboys at time, God rest his soul, one of the best bosses I've ever had here at the Cowboys. And Larry goes, how many players did you guys have on the board when you drafted to Green Bay? I said one hundred forty one hundred forty five. He said,

how did you do that? Didn't you feel like you were going to run out of names? And I'm like, no, we always had, and it was always we had maybe five or six guys left, you know, that's it. And the Cowboys then we were Larry was trying to kind of pair their board down. They had, I mean, they had stacks and stacks and stacks of players in the round, and to me, I think you lose your focus when

you have that many names on your board. It's nice to know all the names, but if you're putting a yeah, there's something you visually because there's gonna be a point in time and we've done this for eleven years now, and I think done it better than anybody that covers this thing. That you the questions you're going to ask Aisha and Bobby and Zach and myself is who's the best player you have left on your board? And if you have one hundred and ninety something names, sometimes you

don't get the best player on the board. You've kind of like, Okay, well, I think he's a fourth round I think you know. I mean I'm talking literally like the six seventh round guys. Not that you know, we've seen six seventh round guys have great careers in the national football Tom Brady one of the greatest ever to have a sixth round draft, Turl Davis sixth round, you know, one of the great careers you'll ever have. But I'm to the point now where I'm trying to think, Okay,

who are my best one hundred and fifty players? Who am I? Who am my guys that if you know, if it came down to is and we're a one stop shop, we always talk about that. So there's gonna be a lot of fans from other teams listening. I want to be able to tell that fan, this is the best player I have on my board right now. You know, in that way the people can kind of when they fall along with us, they could say, oh, okay, they talked about this guy and not just have twenty

guys at a position. Parcels used to say, you can, I'm stacked in there like club sandwiches, you know, And I'm like, I'm like, coach, you're right, you know, but I think that's where I'm at right now with my board. So are you are you gonna hit two hundred? Are you gonna watch? Oh? Yeah, I'm absolut of two hundred. I'm absolutely gonna do it. I'm just gonna keep watching until they say I can't watch film anymore and they're

gonna make me draft. There you go. But I but I just know, I just know it's gonna help me personally when we get to day three and we're starting to see and that's one of the beauties about you know, the thing will probably with the great Dane Burglar is Dane, you would have four hundred five hundred guys under, you know, and need to go back around and you're like, well, what tell us something about him? Dane? And you know,

and Dane is fire off a report about news. Yeah, and you know, and that's the great think about what the draft show is that we can talk about these guys for three days. You know, everybody will have an opinion about these guys for three days. But I'm to the point now and I get what you guys are talking about trying to I'm trying to run down some names too, of like non combine guys and things like that.

My conversations with with Dane Burglar, Like Dane, I need five names that nobody knows about or nobody nobody's you know, off those workout sheets. Who's working out at a school, who's running a really fast forty at a school that wasn't on our top one hundred, wasn't on our top one fifty, that wasn't in our top two hundred. Yeah, give me those guys, because what's happened is well, I'm talking a lot. I'm sorry, no, no, but I got

pep talk. But the but the thing about the thing about it is when you get to those six and seventh rounds, we're gonna be hunting traits. Yep, We're gonna be hunting. He's Zach's gonna tell you he really he's

a tall long guy. His measurables are this, Aisha is gonna tell me at Kansas Pro Day he ran a four three six, and you're gonna and you're gonna say, Okay, I see why, because that's what teams do in the sixth seventh round and that's what I'm trying to do myself watching these guys six seventh round now is the

traits smart? Who are the traits players? You know, because those are the guys that are gonna be coming off that board in that on that day three when we get we get down too, and then the conversation would also become right, you don't want to get in a bidding war with underrafted rookie free agent. You got that.

I've always understood, like wanted to kind of know the behind the scenes of that process, like how do you weigh the risk of all Right, we like this guy, we think that he has the traits, but we also think maybe he'd be more of a hot commodity than somebody else when it comes to now, I got to compete with the Patriots, so I got to compete with

the Eagles or whoever just to sign this guy. Yeah, that's you know, it's a great point because what happened to Chris Hall, who works as worked in the college scouting department here since nineteen ninety has done a tremendous job. And one of the best examples ever was when I was with him and he would not let the tag of Tony Romo move out of the fifth round. The scouts were trying to pre draft, adjust and move guys

that we could. Kind of the first thing they're going to do in free agency is go after those guys that are still on their board that are draft eligible, whether it's six seventh round, They're going to go drafted guys, priority free agents, and then just straight free agents. And that's why the Cowboys have have a great history of signing guys like a Tony Romo because a guy like

Chris Hall will not let that tag move. You know, all of a sudden, you start moving tags down, it's like you lose focus of like who the best players really are. And so you know, I mean, you know, you see Tony Romo in the fifth round and we get into free agency. Sean Payton's been on the phone. Bill Parcels is on the phone, Jerry Jones is on the phone. Those are the guys that you make the priority if you can't get to him in the draft.

And to your point, Zach, when you get in the sixth seventh round and you have these compensatories, these aren't just wasted picks. These are guys that you don't want to fight for in free agency. You don't want to fight the Denver Broncos for a quarterback. You just hey, let's draft him, let's move on, and we'll be better for it. And a lot of those guys they'll have on the drafted list they'll bring in also for these Dallas Days and these thirds coming up. Yea Marquis Bell

last year, he was an undrafted free agent. He was a thirty visit guy. We got to sit down with him and have a conversation. They had him tour in the Star. So that way, whenever that phone rings and it is a Jerry Jones or a Mike McCarthy or whoever it may be, there's a quicker opportunity to maybe try and get something done there and get him in

the building. Yeah. The thing about too, the Dallas Days stuff is that it gives them the opportunity for like the local kids to come in and work out and you know, and get some face time with you know, with the scouting staff, get to see the facility. But more importantly, if they work out well, the coaches are like, man, when we need to get a physical on this guy because maybe he didn't get to go to the combine.

You know, maybe it's one of those things like because the last thing you want to do, you're not going to put a tag on the board unless you have an idea medically what that player is. And that's what Dallas Day gives them an opportunity. If there's those two or three players that they really like, they can get a physical on him right after the Dallas Day and then that way they have the medical information to be

able to put that tag up on the board. Dallas Day is Thursday, the thirty first, and when we get Bobby Bell back tomorrow, well let's run through some of the names tomorrow about maybe who could maybe hit who maybe the Cowboys could be interested. It's a great advantage that the Cowboys have the players. And I don't know if it's changing. It used to be the fifty mile radius so you really can't get but if the player is now from say the player with the school at

usc and he's from Dallas. He can work out because he's from Dallas. Marvin Mims, Yeah exactly, Yeah down here. There used to be a time like the team's like, you know, Miami would have a huge advantage, Dallas would have a huge advantage. Los Angeles would have a huge advantage because of the radius that they could bring players in off that Green Bay. We didn't have very much of advantage. Rose, Well, I'm sorry, No, was Malik David is a thirty day visit guy? I don't remember. Let

me go back in final question. I don't think he was. He was? Was he? Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, from Florida? Right, yeah, yeah, they were definitely interested. No, no, I remember because Pierce was. No, it wasn't. You're right, it was David was Davis because Bobby Bobby Belt came on. Bobby Belt came on on one oh five three the fan we were talking about this and he goes, you need to do some just like what we're talking about that last give me the

player one ninety, Malik Davis. Ye, that's player one ninety on your board right there. And it's because Bobby Belt told me. It's like Brian, you gotta do some work. On this Malik Davis. I'm like, well, they've got two other running backs. You got to look at a Florida No no, no, no no, do some work on Malie David. Then all of a sudden, the board, the board got out and people like and then you saw the name alike Davis, and you went, oh, okay, this makes sense.

It makes sense now Bobby was on that and that's you know, that's how you can kind of kind of get a live of the gauge. Yeah, and you talked about undrafted free agents and just um, you know, the Cowboys wanted to kind of hop on them early. I mean when you look at even a guy like Peyton Hendershott who talked about Casey being on the phone and some other teams being on the phone, Cowboys showed interest

him in him early. And he was saying that it's funny when you listened to him with Hayley's interviews that he talked about um, Jake Ferguson and him just kind of having that competition between each other, and I just I just see your point was one of the first things I thought about. I was like, oh, yeah, they were really on his rate. Well, he was on their

radar and they took care of that early right away. Sure, you wouldn't have He may be in Kansas City, probably would be right that probably would be thinking about Kelsey. So Brian was mentioning how the list is now shifting from combine guys to non combine guys, and you agreed with him, and that's kind of where you're headed. Has there been a name that has stood out to you outside of that list so far? Has there been anybody that that has come to mind for you that's maybe

those traits, those opportunities to maybe get an opportunity. Well, actually, this gentleman was just brought to my attention as of late NC State Guard Steve Avala. Is that how you pronounced this last name? Yeah, it's not. It's not the Steve of Vilas, the TCU guard. So there's another we gotta we gotta a similar steam. Yes, if I'm not mistake, I want to make sure I say there's a Chandlers

of Vala. Okay, my bad Chandlers. I have watched it was it was late listen, it was um but I was watching him and it's so much because there's so much conversation about cowboys. Possibly taking guard and how they could go whatever the case may be. And when you look at Steve a Villa, who a lot of the people, a lot of people have been talking about, I don't I wouldn't be mad if this gentleman was like a third round Okay, was a particular trait you liked in

the player with him? Um so I said he has the ability, like Tyler Smith, to completely turn a guy. Um I think you can make your left side better in pass protection. I think he does. He wins with reach, he does have power. Um. I also said that he has some bite to his game. He has there's a there's a I don't know, there's a ferocity to his game that I appreciate. And when you just started looking at I mean I just started looking at some of

the traits and some of the things about him. He suffered a back injury last year, well in twenty twenty one that I think had people kind of weirded out about him. But he killed his pro day, Brian, he killed his pro day the other day. Let me be talking about um let me see I put it down. Yes, So it sounds like he had thirty bench reps U thirty two and a half vertical um five five point zero one forty yard dash. His cone drill was seven point seven point five six the three cone drill and

four point five three short shuttle. So he has a little bit of explosive numbers. Exactly has some explosiveness to him. Um, he's really raw in a sense like he hasn't been playing but he's only been playing ball for six years. Yeah, I believe if I'm not mistaken. So, but he has ye has the trades, but he has a little bit more than that. Yeah, it's a little bit more than that to where if you plugged him and he got the right coaching, this guy could be a dude. This

guy could be a dude. Now, one thing I will say about him is that, Um, he could finish better. He could finish better, he could finish his blocks better. But there's some savvy to his game and I just like the power he plays with. I think he could be next to a Tyler Smith. Could be a very good guard if you decided to with coaching, if you decided to go that route. And he was brought to my attention, I've been seeing a lot of people talk about Chandler Zavala, the one note I have on him.

So if if they want to bring him in this this sounds great. His father, Demitrio Zavala, was a two time champion of the cooking show Chopped. Yes, yes, so bring him in the building, get him in, let's go in here and to that point, to that point. Um, one thing about him, this this guy, if I'm not staken, I believe he is. Um. Yeah. So yeah. The thing about him though, also is that he really has focused

on his diet. Yeah, okay, I said that his father is one of the reasons that has helped him stay, stay in shape, stay you know, stay fits, stay lean, but you know, to play this position at a high level. This is an intelligent guy. He's a graduate student. He's

just I think also the character is there. These are all things you're looking for, Brian, when you're looking at these bottom these the way day three guys, Yeah, the way the way that she described the player to me would would make me want to go, Now I have to go look at this player and yeah, now I have to go figure out like, okay, where does he fit in? You know? Is this guy? Is this guy you know a top one fifty player? Is this guy you know? That now you have to figure out where

he is on your board as compared to others. And let's be honest, I feel like that this guard group is kind of a top heavy group. You know, if you go down in the middle of it, you're there's a lot of projections. Yeah, this guy is a tackle. We're gonna have to move him to guard. This guy's a short armed guy. The best guard in the draft

is supposedly the guy from Northwestern Tackle. But he's a tackle, right, you know, And that's and that's the thing about it is you you're you're at that point now where Okay, if the guy's got the lenked, if he's got the trades, if he's got the lateral slide to him, is he better than some of these guards that we've seen, like in the fourth fifth round. Yeah. And actually, I think Dane tweeted that he was surprised that he didn't get a lot of people were surprised if he didn't get

to invite. So for the fact that he killed his pro day, Yeah, definitely has He's probably gonna move up some boards. But I I just would not get mad when you talk about Steve a Villa and how people are just like, oh yeah, he would really fit in stuff. I'm like, this dude got a lot of that. But also to it, I think he just has a little bit more bite to him and he wouldn't cost as much to get either. Absolutely think about that. You can get him in day three as opposed to spending a

high end first round pick. Too, young guy, not a whole bunch of I don't know, just bad stuff, like because he hasn't had a lot of time to tread on the tire, and you could get him in here and get him, you know, get him some coaching and maybe get with Duke like all these other guys, and you might have a real hard prospect on your hands. So I really like him. I watched him for a while last night because I want to make sure we're talking about guard. Possibly, Yeah, I think guard right now.

If you look at where the Cowboys would go, that's probably the biggest need, the biggest uncertainty. You know, who's gonna play left guard. We got the Terrence Steel rumors that are out there right now. You have Farniak who's still in the building. But yea, if they don't address that at twenty six, where do you go at guard. There's a couple of guys maybe that you could look at, but but you're right, it's not You're not in love

with a lot of these guys. The one thing that we've learned about this organization, if you let them pick an offensive lineman laite in the first round, they'll hit they'll hit on him and they know that. Yeah, and they do know that. They do know that. Some of the guys that I've seen and I always look for the versatility right because they seem to like that. Now, who knows you have a new offensive line coaching Mike's Lari Brian. We've talked a lot about that on the

g Bag Nation. But like Jared Patterson Notre Dame, if you wanted to wait, that might be a guy that is a center, right center and play played both there, so he's got that versatility. I thought he looked pretty good as a wide Basse plays with a good leverage and technique, rarely loses position, and I think Notre Dame pumps out good offensive lineman typically. That's a school that I would go back to. And then I liked what

I saw from Anthony Bradford, your LSU tiger there. Yeah, I thought he was impressive in that SEC championship game against Jalen Corder, and not many people were I put him as a potential Cowboys fit in the draft. Yeah, I could see that. I really liked Bradford. Two, there's another guy that I liked as a center that's probably a Day three early Day three guy, Michigan center Ola Sagan Olawatami. Yes, yeah, you've seen him so far. I'm a big fan of I liked him. I think he's

the second best center in the draft. Wow. I have him as four behind Patterson Wipler from Ohio State, who I also want to talk about at some point, and then John Michael Schmidt's Yeah, Patterson Patterson to me, I think will be a guard. But I see what you're saying there because he played some center there, Notre Dame as well. But olow A Teamy from Michigan. Holy cow, this dude just seems like he is gonna wear you

out over the course of a football game. I mean, at the end of it, you're gonna be like, gosh, I don't ever want to see that guy again. He's highly decorated, though, like your Outland Trophy winner Lombardoington winner transferred from Virginia. Yeah, yeah, oh we talk about center. Yeah, if you want to. Okay, because I had to again guard talk, I circled back to Cody malk Yeah, I

love code. I just circle back to him, even as guard because there I circle back to him because I went and watched his senior day and it seemed the Senior Bowl stuff, and they put him at center, put him at guard, and I'm telling you, man, it just seemed like when he got his hands inside inside, inside the jersey, he dropped that at I mean, he dropped that anchor. We're not on the FCC regulated side of things, so you could say it if you wanted to, but

but I'm just saying he dropped that anchor. And when you talk about the Cowboys in particular, or any organization right now, people are looking for a guy that maybe if something happens, I can move you. This guy's played tackle, maybe not at the again, he went to North Dakota State, so a lot of people I think are worried about if the tackle position was if he saw the best competition. But if you want to neutralize that, maybe move him

and let him get busy. But I'm telling you just the way that he just stops people in their tracks. I just he's mean, Yeah, he's looking to apply punish. Why I said, I said, he has a little more violence in his game than a VisiC and this is an easy comp because they're both FCS guys. But he reminds me of the motor and the mentality of a Trevor Penning from last year North ohioway. The size, size is not there, no no question. Kind of like him

more than Penning, do you. Yeah, it's different because Penning was a tackle. But I like Cody Mauk a little bit more than I like Penning. I feel like he's not as risky if if I were looking at Mauk, the competition doesn't necessarily bother me too too much. It's it's more so the size. And I kept him at tackle just because that's where he played. I completely understand

moving him to guard. I actually think he would fit better at guard, but I kept him at tackle just because that's kind of what I think teams would do initially, but then move him. He was waited at three o two with a combine. That's my biggest concern is are you gonna put somebody at three o two on the outside and let him ride. No, you're probably gonna give him some help and you're gonna push him the guard. Yeah, I don't. I didn't. I don't think he'd played tackle, Brian.

I think we actually talked about it earlier. The playing center might play center. Yeah, that'd be interesting just to think. Granted, like we talked about, he may not be, he may not be the best tackle, but the idea that he can play it, that he can play it, Yeah, then you can exactly. And so he's someone I circle back to because I was like, if we're talking about guard, I want to see who's the who could be the best at that? And I think he could be. I

think he could be. If maybe if he was playing guard from the first place, we'd be having a whole different conversation. No, I love him, might be right. I think he's fantastic. You could get him at fifty eight, that would be a dream. I don't think he'd last there. I think you'd have to maybe take him at twenty six if you really want to. People might not be smart. It might be like, let's hope the people aren't smart

all the time. Bringing all these linebackers that we don't really care about put them up in front of him at fifty eight. Let's make it happen, all right? When we come back, what about trade up or trade down scenarios and that specific realm? Where are we gonna go? Are you gonna trade up to maybe go get a high end prospect, You're going to trade down to grab some more picks? Which one do we lean toward? We're gonna answer that question and plenty more on Twitter on

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tax dot com. Another thing I gotta do very soon is do my taxes. So Friday, doing draft magazines and watching film and calling games. And now now it's tax season. Get on the tax favorite part out of all of it all. All right, it's time for a little bit of your favorite twitter on the Twitter Twitter on the twenty. Here you go, all right, Our first question comes from Cofax. He says, can you tell me why tight end is

talked about as an early need? Didn't Ferguson and Hindershot show enough last season to try and prove that they are good enough for this organization to survive with Zach will start with you, Yes they did. But I think for the Cowboys a lot of this offseason we've talked about they want to add a playmaker on the offensive side of the football. And as we've talked about on the Draft show, wide receiver is not as deep as

we're accustomed to seeing in the last few drafts. And it's very likely that in the first round, if you want to add an offensive weapon, the best player is going to be a tight end. And that's why we're talking about tight ends. How can you help the offense? How can you add another pass catcher? And Dak Prescott loves the third of the tight end, And I think all of these guys at the top of the draft are better players than what you currently have. And it's

not a slight on fergus Shot. I think both of them have tremendous upside. I like Jake Ferguson a lot come out of Wisconsin, but I think we would all look at Adulton can aid A, Michael Mayer, a Musgrove out of Oregon State and think they are better players than what you have currently right now. And there's no better mismatch on the field if you have a good tight end to take advantage of. And all of those guys, in my opinion, have traits to where linebackers aren't going

to be able to cover them. You're going to have to put his safety up there. There's so many things you go twelve thirteen personnel. I think we all had a lot of fun with the Cowboys using those bigger formations last year. At the end of the year, we're thinking where they go? Why aren't you using the tight ends more? This is all things. Just because you take one doesn't mean fergus shot. It's not going to be

out there Ferguson and hendershot. But you now add another weapon, and if you can't get that at receiver, why not take that at tight end. I think if you have some people in the organization, they would think that Hendershot might be better than Ferguson, and they feel like that that to me, that that we're putting both these guys together and there's really one guy that's clearly better than the other, then okay, so that nind go out and

add another guy. They you know, everybody we like I say, we put these two guys together, and we've seen production with both. But you've talked to people in the organization, they will tell you that that that potentially that Hindershot is better than Ferguson. Wow, And to add another one to try and be better than Ferguson, now that gives you two legit. Nothing against Ferguson. We've seen, We've seen

productive games and productive catches. But I just keep hearing the name Hindershot, Hindershot, Hindershot, Hintershot a lot more than I'm here in Ferguson. So going out and getting a tight end, that's that's something to them that they're like, hey, we could go at another guy that could be way better, way better than the guy that we drafted last year. Now the pushback right and in nishi Wanter reviewerie On this is you can still find a pretty darn good

tight end outside of the first round. If you wanted to wait because there are some guys that I like class. You know, it's very deep, but the tight end might be arguably the deepest position outside of running back in this draft. But I mean you can look at Josh Wiley at a Cincinnati, who's a really good player. You know. Samuela Porta from Iowa is a guy that people just seem to love because of his characteristics off the field. Luke Schoonmaker, I think at of Michigan is a guy

that the Cowboys would probably like. He kind of fits what they want to do. I liked what I saw from Brenton Strange at a Penn State. Yeah. I thought that was a kid that should probably have gotten more playing time and they should have used him more within that offense. Yeah. And then also too, I mean you mentioned his name last week. I went and looked at zat Koons. Yeah, the old dominion, and I think he

sneakily might be one of the more athletic guys. Says well, so if you you want to, you know, um, But to your point, no, I agree. I feel like with the tied end position also, you ask kind of like, is that is what we be? Okay with it? And it looks like across the league, like you want to just keep adding to that room, like you want to keep add into that room and continue that term because like you said, like and also to the Cowboys have coaches here. Yeah, one of Wells a fantastic coach. Nda

Wells might be. There's there's the side of me that believes that Linda Wells might be the best offensive line coach in the building. And he's coaching tight ends. That's interesting. And I and I and I'll I'm not I mean, seriously, I'll back you up on it. Coach. This guy can coach, and guys want to play for him. Yeah, and absolutely, and I'm surprised that they didn't they didn't push him in that direction. But this guy can coach. And you know, if you if you you know, you put another you

put another quality guy with him. He you know, there's there's guys like like you're drafting defensive lineman here. You know, you put you know, you put a d on these guys, you put Dan Quinn on these These guys are gonna get better, you know. Don't don't be fearful of like, hey, why are we adding another tight end? No, you're adding another tight end. It's damn good they can get his ass coached off by one of these guys. That'll make

him even better. That's that's that's what's going on around here. There's some questions about some coaches I have, but there's like a guy like Wells and some of those guys Quinn Nah, I got no questions about those guys coaching ball. Ye teams don't got no safety, don't have a jam Rock cars to deal with a tight end that can just do whatever they want to do in the middle of field. So I'm just saying, like I understand the tight end kind of people say it as a waste.

They say it's not a waste, a waste, it's not a waste in the way we play football in this day and no, I mean, are you telling me you're not trying to go hunting out there to try and get your own Mark Andrews or Travis Kelsey or Darren Waller. There's only a select few beasts at the position. If you can add one of those to your football team,

it's an invaluable type of resource. And these guys have the type of potential that we're talking about in the first round where it's rare, and I understand there's a lot of first round tight ends that have missed, But just because they've missed historically, it doesn't mean they're gonna miss now. I mean, t J. Hawkinson's a heck of a player. He was a first round tight end, right, So it's not all first round tight ends just turned out to be bus No. It's like that with any

other position. I mean, for every Patrick Mahomes that was a first round pick, there was a Mitch Trubisky that was picked before him. It happens, busts happened. The thing with tight end is that people like you said, they don't think there's value in tight end. I keep going back to this point. I've said it on multiple shows, but look at the three of the four teams that made the conference championship games, they probably have three of the four top tight ends in the entire country. That's

what I'm saying. Dallas Goddard has respectfully become one of the better tight ends in league. You can just see the top four or five tight ends. The coaching, the versatility, what he can do in the screen game, and he can just change. He really changed that offense and when he wasn't there. You could tell he wasn't there. I could old Kelsey all these guys, I mean even Andrews. He didn't necessarily have a quarterback, but he was still

balling out. So made it happen, all right? Rowdy wants to know about potential trade up, stay or trade down scenarios. Which one would you be more likely to go for. Would you rather go up and get somebody Brian or you want to stay back? What's what's on your mind? I'm kind of interested. We did a we looked at a mock draft Mike Tannenbaum's mock draft yesterday from ESPN on our show on one oh five three the Fan, and we were trying to figure out spots to go

to if there's certain players that fell to you. I know that that Zach really does like Jackson Smith and Jigbu and so I was trying to figure out, Okay, if he got to your spot at you know, twenty one, if he got to the not to your spot, but he got to twenty one, if he got to twenty three, you know, how would would you be comfortable. You're probably gonna have to overpay. You're gonna have to overpay and you're you know, if you and it's funny, the higher up you go, the more of the overpay it is.

But you want to go to say you want to go to twenty one, the charges I mentioned them, that's gonna cost you. That's going to cost you your third round pick yep, that's gonna I mean, that's just the straight that it's a it's a it's an overpay. It's an overpay by forty points. Yeah, because you're you're twenty six is worth seven hundred if we're looking at the trade charts right, twenty one is worth eight hundreds. So you gotta make up one hundred points and then overpay

a little bit. How bad you want one of these guys? And you're you're in a situation too, even when you want to move up. Say you're looking at you're looking at Minnesota. You know it's only in Minnesota. It's a sixty point thing, but you're talking about potentially giving up your four and you're five to having to go do that. So to me, I'm I how it's gonna have to be for one of these glass eaters that I like to talk about. It's gonna have to be if I'm

gonna go make this move. It's now. And the reason we talked about this is because Carter, the defensive tackle from Georgia, made it on on Mike's board, Cannons Bomb's board. He made it to eighteen. Do you guys want to go get the best defensive tackle in the draft. Yeah, And that's the best shot we got is he's going to get to eighteen. We're talking about maybe the best player in the draft. It's a two hundred point jump. Yeah. So now now you're sitting there and you're thinking, all right,

you know, do we want to go do this? We want to go from twenty six to eighteen to go get the best defensive tackle in the draft. As an organization, we've got to make that. We've got to make that call, you know, because that's probably the closest he's going to get to us sure without having to massively go up the board to go get a guy. So that's that's the thing. When you do these mock drafts when they used to, when we used to sit in there, we did all these scenarios and people got mad at me

for pointing something. Mount a guy did a mock draft where Will Levis ended up at the Cowboys at twenty six. I used to create mock drafts where all of a sudden, it's like, you have to be prepared if a player that you didn't expect to fall. I don't care who it is, Will Levis Hinting Hook or whoever it is, if a quarterback falls to you, you have to be prepared to say, yes, we would take this guy, or no,

we wouldn't. It's not about Daka. It's about taking getting a position, like getting a player that you didn't think you were going to have a chance to get. You know, now you go up, that's going to cost you something. The thing about going back, you don't want to. I don't think they want to lose that fifth year option on any of these players. People like, well, gosh, just trade out of the round. I don't think they want to lose that. They're gonna deal with that right now.

With Diggs. They picked Digs in the second round, but at the time of the CD LAMB Draft, Diggs was a guy if they got I remember coming on on one O five three in Dallas Cowboys dot Com seeing if they got wiped out, Diggs would be in consideration. At seventeen, I bet you they wish they had that fifth year option on Diggs right now because that they're about to have to deal with a contract here. I don't see them falling out of the round, but I also don't see them going up in the round. Yeah,

you got to be ready for it. I'm with you. I think that it's unlikely they make the move up right because you're not making a move up for Bijan. They love the draft. Yeah, and to give up to your point when we did the exercise yesterday, you're having to overpay. You're having to give up an extra fourth to make the points work to be up, to be able to get up and get there like Jalen Carter. For me, that might be the only player that I

would really do it for. So you would considered at eighteen if you could, definitely would because I think he's the best player in the draft and I think he's going to help the entire defense. That would take either your third, probably your third, and your fourth to get there. It is probably and that that even point wise, is even your short ada And it hurts, right, it hurts.

But if you're able to get a guy that if on my board he's number one you can go up and get him at eighteen and think about how that's going to impact the rest of your defense. It's keeping your linebackers clean now. Right, He's able to get you pressure from the middle. That's what makes him different from a Jordan Davis who was a freak show from right Jaalen Carter can be a three down play right. He's a guy that can stop the run for you. He's a force in the middle. He can get pressure from

the middle of the pocket as well. And to me, he's a guy that's going to impact every single level behind him in your defense to where I see it being worth it to move up and getting a player of that caliber. I have a question, yes, is there is there a possibility that there is an an edge that if they felt, if they felt you would be willing to trade up for. I'll ask you this question back to you there, miss Patty. What I'm not the question?

Do you feel like that they're good at defensive end right now with who they currently have on the right and and it's almost like a trick question because there's a couple of one year guys on contract. I was doing I was carrying the two I was doing mad Um. Well, because you saw the emergence of Sam Williams, right, Bob Back, Dante Fowler. Right, you got maybe a couple more years of tank You got Armstrong for a year, right Armstrong? But Armstrong is a not one dimensional but he's in that,

he's that Tweeter Parnacles. Are you considering Michael Parson as an edge at this point? That's that's the question that now you now? Yeah, yes, because are you now looking for someone to pair Michael? We used to say, is there someone to pair Tanker? Are we looking for someone to pair Michael with? Or is it just let's see how good do you feel about all those guys that you just ran through. I think you could get I think you could get help at Edge. Okay, so you're in.

You're in on Edge, Barnacles, I don't know about, I don't I don't know about in the first round. It way is that's what we're talking about. We'll talk about one of your time guys. Because name your top three guys, my top three top three Rush Edge Rush Okay, so it would be Um probably Wilson Anderson, Yeah, yeah, we will Anderson of course, Um Alabama, Alabama, My bad questions, who's your third Barnacles, that's the hard one. Smith isn't Miles Murphy? Which one is your Zacht Murphy is to

me the better all around player, Nolan Smith. I think Nolan Smith has some Micah Parsons in him exactly. I think he's a better pass rusher. I love Miles Murphy. I think he's getting undervalued in this entire process. I see him sliding like he slid an arm Mark draft. I'm like, oh my gosh, Miles Murthy's a hell of a player. I love him. I think he's a stud. But in the Tannenbaum draft, Nolan Smith was picked after you were picked. I would have taken Nolan Smith and

no Smith. And he took the tight end Mayre because because King Kaid was gone. Yeah, so he took the He took the tight end from Notre Dame at twenty sid don't panic like that, give me give me Nolan Like, I don't think you can ever have enough enough edge rushers. I said this yesterday on the show. It's to me, like, I get it. Your your roster right now, you're not you're not screaming for help, but the position you're okay. Six months from now, how are we going to be

feeling about that tank? I mean, I love DeMarcus Lawrence. I don't think he's ever gotten enough credit, much like a Tyron Crawford when he was here for the player that he had all those positions when it comes to just being a well round be Tyler Smith stud Yeah. Amen. But if you can get a guy like Nolan Smith, and there's some other guys that I like. I mean, I think Bjo Glari doesn't get talked about enough. I'm a big fan of here, like him too, An Lsu

as well. If you wanted to wait, you could tell. I mean, I've talked about Felix Uzoma from Kansas State. I think she's talking about it. I think she's talking about an age of twenty six. Nolan Smith would be the only guy it If Will McDonald's there, you think somebody gonna act the fool for you think it would be DQ. That's why That's what I'm saying, Dan standing on the table, are you are you? Are you telling us something we need to know? I'm a I'm saying

that you live in this building too. I'm saying that with Edge in particular. I also think that Chauncey Gholston has changed some of this conversation because Chauncey was brought in to be an edge, but I think it's saw him do some of his best words. Right, So you lose at Iowa. You saw that too, absolutely, So you lose some depth there or some of that plan is being shifted. So I don't know. I'm just saying, like also, so much of the cowboy's identity this past year. Hey,

we can rush the past, all right? Trade back if we trade back and I'm not trading out of the I'm not trading out of the first round. But you trade back, say you're trading to Kansas City or somebody like that. I mean, slash pick of the thing. Are you trading back? Is your trade back? Guy McDonald, I would do that. I wouldn't be mad. I think McDonald

is number thirty three right now on my board. Yeah, he's client, So that would be perfect because when you talk about the MICA impairing him with it, like yeah, and he's coachable and all this stuff. I just I think there's a possibility that edge, like you just talked about, the depth looks good, but we don't know. You'd be comfortable taking him at twenty six. You't play too much? Ran, Yeah? Sure, why not like at this point because he's I mean, he's he's in the early second round with a lot

of people people. No, I don't, I mean, I like what you're doing. As I just wanted to say, I just wanted to see how much you like the player. You obviously like the player. He's a good player. The thing about that scenario is, like you said, that's dan Quinn standing on the table and saying, I've done my job. My defense is badass. Go get me one more guy. That's what I'm saying, And that's that's what he said. And I don't think it would happen if they had

options offensively at twenty six. But if they're wiped out, wiped out at offense twenty six ors no more receivers, those tight ends are off the board. They're they're not comfortable with these offensive lineman and then dan Quinn standing on the table in the war room saying, go get me wil McDonald, Okay, you'll get me one of these other edge rushers. Okay, let me ask you this question, where do you guys feel? Okay, Sanders linebacker Arkansas or

Will McDonald. I think Drew Sanders is better. I have Sanders as a first round Grea McDonald for me, man, I know people people love him. You're just scout across the table. I didn't like him. Let's just across your table two feet from you. You don't like McDonald or you don't love them? Yeah, I really did. Let me. You want to box, I didn't. Let's go. I didn't love Will mcdonnald. You know what didn't you like about him? Oh? McDonald? My notes are bad. I don't really even want to

read him. Here read him say with your chest. Well, this is a part with his size, but just underwhelming. When I watched him against Kase State, he gets blocked by a tight end or a fullback at times, struggles to get off blocks, hops around in the backfield when he has a chance to make plays vers the run doesn't finish plays. He can work his hands well, sometimes to get around tackles, which resulted in a forced fumble.

You can see upside, which is why scouts like him, but I don't see a ton of production on film. For me. He can shoot off the ball quickly when he wants to. He's just not an a consistent football player. Where were you watching him at? Like, where was he playing at? He was playing at edge, he was playing at like a stand up outside linebacker. And you think that Drew Sanders is more of I think I just thought Drew Sanders had more production, made more plays when

I watched him, and you can. I mean, much like with Micah you saw at least him at Arkansas rush the passer. But I've think he's a true off ball linebacker. Like I don't think I would compare these two because I think you're gonna play Drew Sanders, And I was just asking you. I was asking you the only reason because Drew Sanders does have the ability to rush guys, but he has the ability to play linebacker. Right, That's the only reason why I was trying to Will McDonald.

I I see some of the things and I could be so wrong. No, no, no, no, no, no, hey, I never I will never. I will never fight. I mean I'll fight, but I will if as long as you're watching the tape, I have no problem with what you're saying. But the thing about it is, I think this guy can the better the better he plays on the move, the better chance he's got because I think the lack there's there's a lot of ben to his game. The bulk bothers me. The lack of the bulk bothers me.

But you can say the same thing about Nolan Smith. Oh sure, you know you could say the same. They're both finesse, bendy, long, lanky guys. Right, that's the guy I could be wrong about is. And I asked you about Sanders because there's people that, like, we did that thing the other day in the radio where Yard Parker did a thing pro comparisons and they put Drew Sanders and Michael Parsons and we all looked each other like,

whoa because we all see what Michael. But but Drew Sanders does play linebacker and he does rush the passer. Yeah that's why though. But to me personally, I think that's the only reason why there's there's the comp I don't see similarities in there game, not at all. Yeah. I don't see the same explosiveness. I don't see the same But we're not wrong. But will what Will McDonald though? He's a pass rusher, Yeah he is. He's a true

pass rusher unlike Drew Rush. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, So it's kind of like what you want, what you want? What do you need? What are you looking for? Or whatever? But I mean, okay, I see you, we're here. Yeah, oh no. What The great thing about it is someone will remind you on Twitter during the sea whether it works or not. The Cowboys take him and dan Quinn, he went and worked him out there at Iowa State. If he decides, look, that's my dude. I love him.

I'm not gonna be upset about it because I trust dan Quinn. He saw something that he likes and you can see the upside the physical traits with Will McDonald. I just didn't It didn't stand out to me when I watched him when it comes to just production, I need to watch. I need to watch the Kansas State tape because I watched him against Baylor, Oklahoma and TCU in Texas Tech, and I saw, like you said, I see the lack of power. He needs to add power

to his game because he is a finesse rusher. But like you're saying, Kansas State kind of kicked him around a little bit. Yeah, I just need to go watch. Kans shouldn't be getting blocked by I don't think he kicked around by any of those teams that I named, And I mean I've watched those games specifically because I thought they had good offensive linement, interesting, interesting topics. I

like it. Drew Sanders, I mean, you have a good point because you're talking about this comparison between Michael Parsons and Drew Sanders and what was compared on TV or wherever that that's what it was. And if Drew Sanders was Michael Parsons, he wouldn't have never left Nick Saban's grass. He would have never left Alabama, but he went to Arkansas and that's where he found some success. That's where he found it. If he was Michael Parsons, somebody would

have found the way. And there's a lot of there's a lot of players that have transferred that they have gone on because you know, they just had Joe Burrow depend if they If Ryan Day would have known that Joe Burrow was Joe Burrow, I don't think he would have let him out of that that room either. Yeah, I don't know, it's just an interesting thought process. All right, when we come back, we'll wrap things up. I don't know if we're gonna have time for our mocks are

dueling mocks women here. It is that tomorrow, but we'll be back with more of the draft show right after this. I'm Dak Prescott, quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. Blockchain dot Com is one of the most trusted ways to buy, sell, and trade crypto. Whether you're always on the go or stay closer to home, blockchain dot com is just a few types away put the power of crypto in your pocket, so no matter where you are, you can trade on your terms and build a crypto portfolio to fit your life.

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twenty twenty three New Era draft hats. Grab yours at the nearest pro shop or log on to Dallas Cowboys dot com of fanatics experience. I like the draft hats this year. They look clean, very nicely done. All right, final segment here with Brian Brodda, Zak Walchuck, Ayesha Morrison. I'm Kyle Yeoman's glad you're with us. Okay, I want to do some tell me more because we were originally gonna do dueling mock drafts, but we instead decided to fight about Will McDonald and Drew Sanders. Sorry, no, I'm

just kidding. It's a good discussion. I love that discussion. That's why we let it roll. But we'll do dueling mock drafts tomorrow. We'll start it off. We'll get Bobby back in here too. We'll really do it up big. We'll start it off for tomorrow's show with dueling mock drafts. All right, tell me more about your guy that you mentioned earlier, Jared Patterson out of Notre Dame, Zach Wolchuck.

I'm gonna go through some of these interior offensive lineman that we haven't talked about that are probably day two or early day three guys. I thought Patterson when I watched him overall, I mentioned, right, you've got the Notre Dame connections. I think Notre Dame produces good talent, but specifically I like the versatility, can play both garden center. I thought he has a wide base, but he plays

with good leverage and technique, rarely lose his position. We'll drive and get knocked back in the run game, where's the combo blocks really well at both spots, can get to the second level. Not the fastest guy getting out in space, but he shows enough athleticisn't be able to pull if needed. Overall, I thought he was just really consistent. Love the position flex As I mentioned, I would take him in the third round and I'd be very happy

with it, and I think you have a future starter. Okay, I think his feet aren't as quick as his eyes, and that's a problem for top heavy. Yeah, well not top heavy. When you when I say that, I mean he sees it, but his feet don't allow him to get over see what you're saying and make that happen. So I think, to me, you know his punch is timing his arm length is really below standards. What you say. You see guys get right on top of him, and I worry about that a little bit. He's got to

work the hands faster than his feet. I mean, the bind, the leg drive. There's some things about him when he lacks I think some impact as a blocker, the longer he has to go in that block, so I you know, six five three zero six. I just think the short arms give him problems. And and but like I say, I think his lack of lateral sly too hurts him when he has to like the twist stunts and stuff.

He's trying to get there and now, oh the guy's on him, and now he's having to fight to get in front of the guy and he can't quite get there. I don't have him as high as you. I have him in the fifth round myself. Wow. Okayth rounder, Okay, what do you think, Aisha? What about him? Yeah? I haven't watched him about it? Yeah, No, that's fine. I'm gonna go check him out tonight, though. But you gave us a couple we need to watch. Ye, this is good.

We'll exchange here. I glanced at him and I look, and that's one thing that I did notice very quickly the time that I did glance at him, was like, Oh, his call it reach. I don't know if that's right, but I was like, oh his reach aint that great? No, yeah, he's sure. Yeah, he's not going to be able to extend out there and scoop and get a guy. Well, you gotta be able to you gotta be able to center because you're at a disadvantage too, is that you're

gonna play with your off hand quick. And if you don't play with your off hand quick, and guys get on your shoulder and then now they're moving on you. And I just didn't see that slide right. I didn't like him as projecting as a center personally. I think it's going to be a guard. Okay, yeah, I would play him at guard? Not make sense? Makes sense? See, and I yeah, I think I would probably do. There's better centers than him. I don't like his pad hight.

I think he's he's very high off the line of scrimmage, like, no, no, that's six. Yeah he's not not short, but but I see what you. Yeah, I don't like the way he plays straight up with his chest in his hands. He's got good hands, but they're moving too much for him to really set and reset. So I just I didn't love a ton of that. So the hands and the feet just didn't match to me kind of. Brian was talking about the feet a moment ago. Tell me about Luke Wipler out of Ohio State. This is another guy

probably as a center. I think so, Yeah, I think so, And I think this guy, to me, it's he's a very square player, and I mean square the way he's built and he's really now he's the opposite of what we just talked about at Notre Dame. He's quick to help guards. He's when he's uncovered, you see him kind of he understands where the blitz is coming from and then boom, he's over in that area. He's kind of got a wide basse to him, but he's still able

to adjust. He usually the wider your bass, the harder it is for you to move into slide. And so guys get a wild white basis because they're not strong enough and they take guys on and they're trying to anchor down or as I used to like to say, drop that ass. But that's what's that. That's kind of where I think with Wiefler is that, you know, I thought he might get knocked around some, but he doesn't.

I mean, he's able to keep his position, he's able to keep the contact and he tends to keep that defender close to him because he's grabbing, he's holding, and he's kind of like dancing with the guy a little bit. I like the way this kid plays on his feet. I didn't see him on the ground at all, and I think that's pretty impressive about him. Where would I have him on my board? I think that when you're talking about the centers and stuff like that. I had

him in the third round is where I had him. Yeah, he's on the if I'm not mistaken, he was on the Giants radar a little bit um, but I to your point. That was what I wrote down about him. I wrote, sustained. Don't make no sense to y'all, but to me that less we know he can sustain. Yeah, absolutely, I call him the judge. Yeah, I've gotta have nicknames soccer. That's awesome. Yeah, like yeah, once he gets his hands on you, Yeah, it's he's hard. He's hard to hard

to shake. Yeah, And that surprised me as well, because I feel like with some of these guys that I feel like in this draft, there quite a few guys that have the long arms and stuff like that. So for him to be able to sustain after taking on the impact of contact, I was that was important to me with a guy with his length. Sure, yeah, I thought he was good in both pass and run blocking, but to me, he was one of the better all around interior alignment that we studied. Personally, I've got him

as my number three center. I could see him being the second guy I have too. I've gotten the Michigan Cat ahead of him. I really just loved where I saw it from from Olawa Teamy and I watched him very recently last night to be uh to make sure. I just to double shovel check that, but I was impressed. Ohio State's got three really good linemen in this draft with Dwan Jones and then Paris Johnson. I think it's the best tackle. There's a reason why they were playing

in the College Football Playoff this year. Yeah. I had wat Yeah, that's true. I had Wipepler way down the board. Not way down the board, but I had him at like four or five on my center list. And then I went back and watched him again while I was writing the magazine, and I love his quickness off the snap, and he's got some good birds. He gets up in there and he's he's not afraid to push back and finish too. That was the biggest thing for me. One

more guy. This is sticking with the center. How about Joe Tipman out of Wisconsin. You like I watched him last night? No, I just lost him. Oh you watched so I said. He has a strong lower half. He has lots of play strength. Brian, Uh. His hands can be out of place sometimes though, I think he finishes blocks well, but he's inconsidered with his mechanics. Sometimes he kind of reminders. It's so funny because Tyler is the

first Tyler Smith is the first offensive lineman. I think I watched in depth, so a lot of the time when I'm watching guys that have a similar bill to him, I'm looking for the similarities and so he'll get He'll also get caught, like leaning his chest open, gets twisted, which I don't like. He lives off of the fact that he can recover, and that's something that I think Tyler also used to do too. He had the strength

to recover. So sometimes the point of contact wasn't always good with Tyler last like when he his rookie when I work here but at Tosa, but when he got here, that's something that he worked on im. He can replace his hands, regroup after the punch and stuff, but that's something that I think he needs to work on. Other than that, though, I feel like obviously his anchor is good, he has all the place to get to the second level.

I just was worried about. It's the finishing blocks and the initial point of contact mechanics that I think he needs to work on. And I hope that's the right way to sound. The young scout got it right. Yeah, she's frigging nailed this guy. I mean, you copy in my work over here later. Now, She's absolutely right. Everything she said about the players absolutely true. I mean at point to point with the notes and stuff like that. Sorry about the watch going off there, guys, but yeah,

I mean this guy, I worry about this guy. With large and big defenders can maybe give this guy some problem. And he's a big guy. He's six sixties, three thirteen and he doesn't always play like that. But she great job. You get him nailed. I agree with you, Brian. My first line on him was he gets stood up at the line by bigger defensive tackles and won't get a lot of movement. The only thing that that annoyed me watching him is I did think he was ground guy

did end up on the ground a little bit. And that's what one of your one of your pet you're yeah, well, yeah, if you're alignment on the ground. Got problems. I didn't. I didn't love but there are a lot of things to like him, because he is overall very consistent. I thought, as well, one of your biases, that's what. Yeah, I was looking forward. He looks like, hey, looks like her I mean a center or I mean like a badger. He just looked a lot of these guys just look

the part. And so when with looking apart, it's easier. I mean, you're drawn to them because they look the part. But then when you start looking within, like what they do well and stuff, you're like, oh well, honey, get off the ground, baby, please come on, what are you doing? Find some pride? I can see myself sitting in a room in a college and going, baby, get off the ground, honey, please get on your feet. I just I learned something today, baby,

get off the ground. And he also learned that Brian's got a clip that we're gonna have that cut of him saying, drop that ass, drop that ass. Yeah, So she turned it into a saw all right. For Chris Beam, for Brian broad Us, for Zach Waltschuk Ayesha Morrison. I'm Kyle Yellmans. We'll see tomorrow doing mock drafts when we come back with more of the Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.